Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Grimgroove]

Personally I wasn't so comfortable with Slandaar putting future at L-1 so quickly after nacho's vote. It may be nothing but if future flips town....

Please finish your sentence, I'm very curious what those 4 dots represent.

[Grimgroove]

Personally I wasn't so comfortable with Slandaar putting future at L-1 so quickly after nacho's vote. It may be nothing but if future flips town....

This.
Then again, I never quite gotten understanding slandaar and his voting and explainations in a couple of games anyway.

I find this a very wishywoshy post. It's impossible to distill your opinion from this.

[Grimgroove]

I get why people have issue with future, but his play doesn't make sense as mafia even in ISO. It would be incredibly poor mafia play.

Does it make much sense as town?

[BP]

I read all your posts, and you present two reasons to think I'm scummy:

1. I argued for No Lynch - posts 60, 66, then 94and 163are reinforcements of what he's said on the other 2;
2. I changed my stance to a voting one - post 203.

Yes, I had read all your posts, and I've just re-read them, and other than my theory about NL, you present no other reason to think I'm scum. Other than these, there are some posts about game theory in general and about Darthe. Obviously, I didn't count the RVS.

Are you protecting Future?

[BP]

May I also say that both reasons don't make sense together? If you think NL is bad and give me a lesson about it, how is changing to a voting stance (which is not the same to a lynching stance) scummy as well? I would either stick to my NL theory, which you think to be bullcrap, and be labelled as scummy, or I would change it following you guy's advice, and that would be scummy cuz I'd be following Town. How does one escape from that? So actually, you have one reason to think I'm scum, one that I've explained my outlook on time and again. The other one is just a no-escape trap. This obviously has an implication, otherwise this post would be just dumb: you seem to act on a pre-made stance on me. I was the first player seriously under scrutiny here, and you adhered to that scrutiny rather quickly. You have a very bad reason to think I'm scum, but you are still on that, even if we've had stronger scumreads from elsewhere, which you do believe we do: even you say Darthe stinks with his whole hammering business.

That's just weird.

[Slandaar]

Future waffled too much about the No Lynch thing, way too much and apparently has now vanished.

[Elyse]

I've been sick. Will catchup ASAP.

[Grimgroove]

Normally I don't think inactivity says something about alignment (luckily, if not pretty much all of you would be scum), but in this case I can't help but feel Future's sudden absence is scummy. He never adressed the issues laid before him, and left off in a hurried fury.
I realize it's rarely a good idea to lynch without a claim, but I don't think even a claim would convince me in this case, and I don't feel like sitting here idly for something tohappen. This game desperately needs a CPR shock in its current state, half of the playing field doesn't give a shit about what goes on here, and don't evenr ead half of people's posts.
I think a lynch on Future might at least provide some clearer basis for discussion, and will get use one lynched scum as an added bonus.
Hammertime!

[BP]

Well, in that case...

Unvote

[BP]

Normally I don't think inactivity says something about alignment (luckily, if not pretty much all of you would be scum), but in this case I can't help but feel Future's sudden absence is scummy. He never adressed the issues laid before him, and left off in a hurried fury.
I realize it's rarely a good idea to lynch without a claim, but I don't think even a claim would convince me in this case, and I don't feel like sitting here idly for something tohappen. This game desperately needs a CPR shock in its current state, half of the playing field doesn't give a shit about what goes on here, and don't evenr ead half of people's posts.
I think a lynch on Future might at least provide some clearer basis for discussion, and will get use one lynched scum as an added bonus.
Hammertime!

Now that the unvote is done, I honestly agree w/ Grim on the whole inactivity thing. People don't post nearly as often as expected. Be that as it may, lynching because the game is stalled is silly, at best! We must lynch scum, and even tho Future's absence is scummy at the very least, to hurry-lynch him because the game is kinda stalled is NOT the way to go. Grim's one of the towniest reads I have, but this that he suggested is not proper town behavior. If Future turns out to be innocent... It's bad for everyone, even if we lose a player that wasn't as active as he should be.

[Grimgroove]

That's fine, I expected a reaction along those lines. Normally I don't like these holier than the pope stances like the one BP just made, but at least he's one of the few active people so I'm letting it slide. I guess he has not yet reached the point of frustration with this game where I am currently at.
I don't think I'm not being proper town. I've made a case against Future that he responded to in such a way that left my entire case standing and intact. His reaction strikes me as scum feeling silly of having been caught so early in the game, and deciding not to put too much effort in it anymore. This starts by some post referring to his meta, the editing of this post by the mod (not before chernobylcitybus could see the unconvincing original though), Future complaining about that and then simply disappearing.
So yes, I want this guy lynched, regardless of what he would claim.
Now, one argument could be: why end this day now, when there is still time?
To that my response is simple: so far we haven't done shit with our time. 90% of this game's posts are about game theory. If I wanted that, I'd just go check out the Wiki-pages instead of signing up for a game. I sincerely hope for you, for me, and for this game that the extra time you're willing to spend on D1 will be rewarded by some activity, but what I've seen leaves little room for such hope.
I don't really care about not being proper town, it's the inactivity that is the only true anti-town behavior in this topic.

[Slandaar]

I like slow games

Easier to find scum.

[BP]

As I said, Grim, I completely understand. I constantly check the thread for more to play with, but it seems we're going around in circles with all the game theory..

I unvoted because I think that premature lynching is ever good for town. That's not all, ofc. I want to hear from Red Dragon and

future

, specifically, first, and then I'll see what to do. I do sympathize with your stance. But that's just not the way I roll.

[Slandaar]

Future (6) - grimgroove, chernobylcitybus, BP, Baezu, Nachomamma8, Slandaar (L-1)

Lets look at this wagon

Grim is town
Cher maybe town, he made one good post
BP is town
Baezu is town.
Nacho hmmmm.
I am town

Looks good.

[Red Dragon]

Are you protecting Future?

Ahhh I see where you are taking it. You want to set me up for a chain saw. Well, if you think by not attacking the person you are attacking = protection then I am. I'm disinterested by the future wagon, that is my official stance.

If you think NL is bad and give me a lesson about it, how is changing to a voting stance (which is not the same to a lynching stance) scummy as well?

You are a stick in the wind that will change direction to look town.

Well, in that case...

Unvote

??? This type of stuff irks me about you. IT doesn't make sense.
YOu want him lynched, but you don't want it tis early, but you want a no lynch, but you want to catch scum... it is just off.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Future

[Darthe]

Normally I don't think inactivity says something about alignment (luckily, if not pretty much all of you would be scum), but in this case I can't help but feel Future's sudden absence is scummy. He never adressed the issues laid before him, and left off in a hurried fury.
I realize it's rarely a good idea to lynch without a claim, but I don't think even a claim would convince me in this case, and I don't feel like sitting here idly for something tohappen. This game desperately needs a CPR shock in its current state, half of the playing field doesn't give a shit about what goes on here, and don't evenr ead half of people's posts.
I think a lynch on Future might at least provide some clearer basis for discussion, and will get use one lynched scum as an added bonus.
Hammertime!

This is fair. BP, I do not think it is lynching to push activity, I think it is lynching to get progress.

[Elyse]

K I'm just going to make a big catchup post once I start rereading.

[Darthe]

I get why people have issue with future, but his play doesn't make sense as mafia even in ISO. It would be incredibly poor mafia play.

Does it make much sense as town?

Good point..

[Elyse]

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

Didn't like you until here, but this post is townie as it gets, not because of the defense but because of the tone and concern for life.

I think a "concern for life" would be something scum has more than town.

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

This post has my mafia sensors blaring in my head. It's a combination of all CAPS words, frustration, and also some semi-surrendering ("I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM"). In my experience, bringing up PM info to avoid being lynched is usually scummy. Also, in a 13 man game where the pool is already small, why not just shut up and die? Why fight so hard on Day 1 to not be lynched? Usually if I'm civ and getting FOS'd by people early in games, I put my head down and work twice as hard to find mafia. It does no good to overly defend early in games because that's what mafia wants. The longer a round goes with suspicion and discussions pointed towards a civ, the easier it is for mafia to hide. A civ death can be extremely helpful for civs in the long run.

VOTE: Baezu

I feel like you aren't interacting with anyone in this game. You mention posts that seem off and that's it. You don't defend yourself, ask questions, or reply to people who think you are scummy. You just pop in, comment on something, and leave.

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN.

I swear to you.

The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

Didn't like you until here, but this post is townie as it gets, not because of the defense but because of the tone and concern for life.

Funny how interpretations of this post are diametrical with for instance thegooner.
I find it townie. I'm not sure in how far swearing is actually allowed, and some people take it more seriously than others, but the thing in bold has got me convinced.

I'm sorry but this is really dumb.

I swear I'm town too.

Am I am townread now?

@BP yes. Currently I feel future us scummier than you. That's why I changed my vote over to him. Why do I feel he's scummier than the gooner? Because of the fact that his only defense is an ongoing game and he has nothing else to say for himself.

I can see this, but the gooner hasn't offered up any defense at all.

@Nacho
To the posts of mine you responded to:
1. Yes I skimmed hard.
2. How is that opportunistic?
3. I'm not going to give out a whole list of reads but Grim is very town to me and thegooner and Future are the two scummiest people.

@PeregrineV's 109
How does BP looks town to you?

Scum doesn't argue for No lynches, because they want to mislynch instead.

Incorrect. No lynch is better than a mis-lynch for scum.

How so?

What is your read on Future, Red Dragon
And what about you Ztife? How do you feel about the wagon behind his name and the people on it?

I mean, he isn't the worst d1 lynch. But I think bp is miles better.

Y U focus on me so much?

Maybe because he thinks you're scum?

\

I'm from Missouri.

That's unfortunate.

Really? Once again nothing.

I get why people have issue with future, but his play doesn't make sense as mafia even in ISO. It would be incredibly poor mafia play.

Future's buddy found.

I can't decide if the push here is to let a townie hammer for info or to stall the hammer from the mafia's perspective. In either case it doesn't look to me like a scum lynch still, but that could just be because of D1's practically infoless nature. BP just had some bad whyme fryme, and I like Ztife's post above as well as the quote from Baezu.

Explain this. I actually don't understand this at all.

Well, in that case...

Unvote

Oooh I was ok with your no-lynch-but-still-vote shenanigans but now this is going back and forth. Now that ONE person who is already voting Future wants a hammer, you're so scared that you jump off? I don't like that one bit. Also, no one will hammer without a claim, and no one off the wagon has shown intent to hammer. It seems like you really don't want to be associated with this wagon.
@RedDragon
What is your read on future? And why?

I still think thegooner is scummier than Future but I 100% support a Future lynch. I still want to give both of them time to actually interact with others.

Future might be a better lynch anyway because Darthe has been tippy-toeing around his lynch and subtly trying to stall it. If Future is scum it would be very telling.

[chernobylcitybus]

Do you have intent to hammer, Elyse?

If so I'd like Future to claim.

[Elyse]

I want Future and thegooner to post first.

[ac1983fan]

Vote Count:

Future (5) - grimgroove, chernobylcitybus, Baezu, Nachomamma8, Slandaar, PeregrineV (L-1)

BP (3) - Red Dragon, Ztife, Darthe
Baezu (2) - Future, thegooner
thegooner (1) - Elyse

Not Voting (1) - BP

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or no lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2013-07-03 10:00:00).
Future will be prodded.

[Darthe]

I don't think he is going to claim. I would rather a BP lynch but some info is prefered over a multi-day stall..

[Baezu]

@grim so far my impression of Slandaar has been town all the way. If future flips town, I would feel much more like Slandaar might be scum. Also, I still think a future flip would give us more information.

@BP your unvote seems really suspicious, especially since Grim was saying future should be hammered not 10 minutes prior. Why don't you want us to see future's flip? Man, I really want to believe you're town but everything you do just leads me to think you're scum!

At this point I think future needs to be hammered as well - for better or worse.