Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[fferyllt]

If I'm right about you, it's going to pain me deeply that I was wrong about pjo.

[Amrun]

Of course I'll re-evaluate in light of Syryana's flip, were it to occur. No way do you catch "lil dash" and miss THIS genuinely...

Over soul, I already told you why: I think you were more cautious due to Tierce having tertiary suspicion towards you. HOWEVER, this is not the only reason. In general i just thought you were playing very cautiously and even today, you're not really coming out heavy hitting. Being non-committal and laying low has obvious scum motivation.

I don't think I've ever seen someone pass up their primary scum read and put a vote on their secondary except as a compromise, or due to trusting someone else's read to be more accurate. Except on a couple of occasions when the player was scum.

You did neither of those, which leads me to think this is another of those "player is scum" occasions.

It's like you're deliberately not even thinking about it.

You're making me regret trying to be thorough. Ugh.

[fferyllt]

Of course I'll re-evaluate in light of Syryana's flip, were it to occur. No way do you catch "lil dash" and miss THIS genuinely...

Over soul, I already told you why: I think you were more cautious due to Tierce having tertiary suspicion towards you. HOWEVER, this is not the only reason. In general i just thought you were playing very cautiously and even today, you're not really coming out heavy hitting. Being non-committal and laying low has obvious scum motivation.

I don't think I've ever seen someone pass up their primary scum read and put a vote on their secondary except as a compromise, or due to trusting someone else's read to be more accurate. Except on a couple of occasions when the player was scum.

You did neither of those, which leads me to think this is another of those "player is scum" occasions.

It's like you're deliberately not even thinking about it.

You're making me regret trying to be thorough. Ugh.

I guess you are thinking circles around me. I'll reread our exchange again a few times, because I don't get what I'm missing.

[fferyllt]

Well.

Reread has clarified fuck-all. But that's par for the course in this game.

UNVOTE: Unvote Amrun

[Vi]

~Vote Count XLII

fferyllt (1) ~ Syryana
Katsuki (1) ~ Oversoul
Syryana (1) ~ Amrun

Amrun (0) ~

(fferyllt)

Not Voting:

(fferyllt,)

Katsuki, sword_of_omens, Tammy, Zdenek,

(Amrun,)

fferyllt

--With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is 07:30 EDT on July 2, 2013.

(Only got 3 days left)

[Zdenek]

Oversoul is as town as can be because of Egg copying his town read on MattP.
If Pjo was trolling like that as scum, I think he'd have stayed in to see it through.
I'm still reading fferyllt as town, but not for anything solid, she's just playing like town.
Tammy, about the same.

I would not vote these 4 today.

I used to think that SoO was probably town because of Antagon jumping on Pjo with him when he replaced in, but now I'm not so sure because I don't know how much Antagon actually read, but it was certainly more than he tried to suggest.

So that leaves:
Katsuki
Syryana

Vote: Katsuki

[Katsuki]

Katsuki is one. I'll tell you my second and third at a later time.

I'm curious to hear what these other ones are. And no you're not going through this day without stating them.

[Katsuki]

To actually answer your question Sryana...

I did not like Katsuki being active from the start of the game where in the recent past, all I have known him to be is a lurker who continuely avoids prods to stay in the game without ever really investing himself.

I missed his hey-day where he was active and everything was bliss, so to see him go against his town meta in First Time it set off alarm bells. Especially when he made the post saying that he is active when he likes his scumbuddies and has competent players on his team.

My town meta in First Time? How the fuck is that even my "meta" when it's a sample of one game, where I have repeatedly stated (to you too) that I didn't even really play due to having read a total of around 5-10 pages out of however many pages was that game.

Not to mention, that is definitely NOT the only game you have played with me. I know you have played MANY more games with me, and you're continued choosing of that individual game to craft my town meta out of is suspect at best.

I was under the impression that it was for 'out of context' arguments. Either way Zach doesn't give me a good vibe, vastly different from our time together in team mafia.

Oh well.

This post is probably my biggest problem with Katsuki. He is trying to push the Zach wagon ever so softly by using ambiguous language that seems based on meta.

When I ask him about it he goes on to give me a really large explanation with examples that don't really matter in the specific situation and overall the read on Zach looks fake.

This is Katsuki's explanation:

I found the answer, Katsuki.
Are you really one to use 2 year old meta? Or meta even at all?

I've only ever played one game with him before so.

I use gut-meta heavily. It's how I catch onto players like Kuribo, Faraday, Fate, Mina, DGB, mith, etc. I mix it into what I'm seeing in the current game. Long story short, read primarily based on game and what I'm seeing (+ heavy amounts of gut), and if my gut has not been wrong before then I tie that in.

For example, I am never wrong when it comes to reading Kuribo or Spyspy, my gut is always right. All I have to do is simply skim over their posts, and my gut gives me an instant read.

He states that he is using gut-meta reasoning for his read on Zach. Now there is no problem with this really because everyone has their own way to discern alignment but it also gives Katsuki a very large door to change his reads as he sees fit.

Katsuki tries to pad his reading skills through gut-meta by giving examples of reading some renowned players, but what he doesn't explain is that he has extensive meta with those players. Kuribo and Katsuki were friends before they started to play mafia on Mafiascum. Faraday, Fate, Spyrex, Mina, DGB, and mith are all from that era of activity where Katsuki played often and played actively. Of course he is going to be able to use his gut-meta style to read those players, that isn't a feat unique to Katsuki. Players who play with each other often are going to be able to read each other more effectively just from looking at their posts.

However, Katsuki has only played

1

game with Zach and he thinks that qualifies him to be able to use gut-meta to read him. On top of that, the game was

2

years ago. Does that read and reasoning stand the test of time? I don't think so. I think it was Katsuki over-explaining his methodology in order to look better to the town.

In addition to that, Katsuki's activity has generally gotten worse as this game has progressed. I can't really definitively say that given the Apocalypse mechanic skews things but I don't know who Katsuki's suspicions were yesterday and who he really suspects today. On top of that, he also has been trying to push lynches more quickly than normal without really contributing much to the discussion at hand. Fanning the fires without adding any wood.

That is false. I hadn't played a single game with mith before prior to /invitational 13, which was my only game prior to this one.

You're also doing little more than calling out my playstyle in this post.

Not to mention, with the bolded statement, I do believe I stated somewhere in the thread around that time that my read may be off given that it was 2 years ago.

Now we get to enter tinfoil territory...

The nightkills have been unconventional to the say the least. I agree that Matt's death is odd but I think there is still analysis to be gained from it.

Katsuki asks Matt in this post where he is in Matt's reads as Matt had previously had him as scum

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

What happened to that scum list that had me in it? ^^

I think this is key as it makes perfect sense for Katsuki to silence Matt now

after

he has posted his reads list and is stating Katsuki. Why? Because the dead townie is calling you town, and it wouldn't make sense for scum to kill their supporters as well as the fact that if Matt was wrong, you are giving the town more

bad

information when they decide to lynch somebody. This reads list is the perfect excuse to get rid of Matt because naturally people will think that Matt was killed for his scumreads and if scum were within his townreads they have the ultimate red herring to use. So far, 3 people on that list have flipped town and if there are scum on that list, why the fuck would they shoot him and confirm his accuracy? Unless he wasn't that accurate to begin with at all. Only 3 more people are left from Matt's original list and I have a feeling that at most only 1 of his scum reads was correct.


Matt is a good player but he was under a lot of pressure. Additionally, he had just supplied a reads list. Why would scum throw away the chance at a mislynch like that especially since the pool of his scumreads was still diluted enough to by some time? They knew he wasn't going to be protected because of his suspicion if there is any protection to begin with. They knew that people would gobble up the reads list as the reasoning he was killed.

And you talk as if you had no reason to silence him. If anything, I had far less reason to do so than you did. You're doing little more than taking something that's happened and twisting it to try and apply scumminess to me.

I could be cheeky right now and offer some of my scum meta as to why there would be no way I'd kill Matt, but that's not important.

The way Katsuki replied to Tierce's accusations against him were mainly to brush off her suspicions and just say that she was wrong. It makes sense for him to not answer her anymore if in 3 days she is going to bed and there are other plausible reasons for her death.

I answered her as to why she was wrong, and explained my thoughts. Apparently doing so makes me scum.

At the end of the day yesterday, Katsuki votes Implosion stating the he was voting him for being a deadline lynch. He never really tried to get his scumspect, Tierce, lynched yesterday but he was more than happy to put Implosion at L-1 without dirtying his hands really.

SO VOTING TO PREVENT A NO-LYNCH ALSO MAKES ME SCUM
YEAHHHHHHHH

Pretty much, your entire post consists of BS, playstyle, TOWN META BASED OFF OF ONE GAME WHERE I WAS PRACTICALLY AFK WHILE IGNORING THE COUNTLESS OTHER GAMES YOU'VE PLAYED WITH ME and twisting of NKs, little reasoning as to why I'm scum beyond killing of Tierce because she called me scum.

Happy with my vote.

[Katsuki]

I am all for a mass character claim at least. Seriously. I would be ecstatic.

We have 8 alive, with 3 scum alive at most.

I know last time I played a 15player Vi game, scum consisted of 3 mafia and a voteless traitor.

Throwing in the cultilante as a possible killing role given the lack of a second kill the last two nights, we're probably facing 3 scum?


Actually given the direction this day is headed in I'd be in favor of a massclaim.

[Vi]

~Vote Count XLIII

Katsuki (2) ~ Oversoul, Zdenek
fferyllt (1) ~ Syryana
Syryana (1) ~ Amrun

Not Voting:

Katsuki, sword_of_omens, Tammy,

(Zdenek,)

fferyllt

--With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is 07:30 EDT on July 2, 2013.

(Only got 2 days left)

[Amrun]

Zdenek, how does that make oversoul town?

And explain how Antagon's level of reading has anything to do with sword's alignment?

[Zdenek]

Scum are more likely to copy a townie's town read on someone than than a scum buddy's. I think Egg saw Oversoul's town read on Matt and copied it - it let's him buddy with two people fairly innocuously.

If Antagon had read the whole thread, then he would have known that SoO voted for Pjovek. Since it is somewhat unlikely for scum to pile on to the same person, this makes them less likely to be aligned. Of course, if he hadn't read the thread, this doesn't apply.

[Amrun]

I disagree with the first; I think it's perfectly reasonable to copy a town read of your buddy's. but that's a possibility, sure.

What evidence is there that Antagon didn't read the whole thread? I don't recall any off the top of my head.

That's my reason for having sword as leaning town, too, so I'm interested in this. It was never an overly compelling reason to me but it exists. Also his push on implosion seemed pretty genuine to me.

[Zdenek]

Kats, how many scum do you think are left?

[Zdenek]

Amrun

People on the Hp wagon, could you please clarify your stand?
Why do you want to lynch Hp:
1) Because you think he is scum
2) Because you don't want antagon to be lynched today

Which is a bigger factor to you.

Because of the bungle flip-flopping.
Because I don't want to be lynched.
Because lynching the un-CC'd PR is always a bad idea.

That's because I'm not done yet.

Antagon:

Explain this comment?

Because I'm actually only on about Page 8 because I physically couldn't get to a computer before then.

Here he says he's at pg. 8.
I thought it was a lie at the time, but I have no clue what he actually was aware of.

[Amrun]

Oh, I see. Well, even if he was only at page 8 (doubtful), he would probably know where his buddies were voting because vote counts exist and he'd be extra aware of them anyway, I'd imagine. At least I always know what my buddies are doing as scum!

[Katsuki]

Kats, how many scum do you think are left?

Either 2 more with stronger roles, or 3 more with weaker roles.

[fferyllt]

I'm in favor of mass claim.

[Zdenek]

If we are going to do it, we should get the show on the road. I'm fine with going first, but if I had my way Katsuki or Syryana would. If there are no objections to mass claiming or to me going first I'll claim in half an hour or so. I also don't have a problem with someone else going first. I'll assume that we'll do it popcorn style.

[fferyllt]

I've already outed my character name. I don't mind going first.

[Zdenek]

Fine with me.

[fferyllt]

Ok. Rainbow Dash, role pm is configured like the town vanilla PM in Vi's post 1. My role PM uses the first form of the 2nd paragraph. Pjo's two posts about lil dashes made me wonder about the "but it won't do anything" phrase. That's not precisely how it's phrased in my PM, but the meaning is about the same.

[fferyllt]

Oh, and popcorn Katsuki

[Katsuki]

Aya Syameimaru (Touhou Project), VT.

Popcorn Oversoul.

[Oversoul]

I am Settzer Gabiani an albino gambler from the Final Fantasy universe.
I was kinda surprised that the character was featured in a "sky" game but apparently I have an airship so that qualifies.

I want Amrun to claim next.