Mini 1476: Dewey Decimal Mafia (Game Over)

[gorckat]

For not coming to Baltomeet.

Yeah, I owe some people drinks and maybe a pizza...my wife is on the mend, anyways

@TIP: Will you self-hammer at L-1?

[gorckat]

L-1 on page one is quite ridiculous. Definitely keeping an eye on all those that have voted for TIP so far.

I have an ego and like attention, too.

vote: TheIrishPope]/b]

But really, I like spicer and mo for the minute.

unvote
vote: spicer

[gorckat]

Well I guess that works, too.

[gorckat]

Post 30 he was L-3
No one voted before I did.

[gorckat]

@TIP: Poor application of the rule.

Equally plausible spicer was legit accidentally wrong about the numbers.

We should be poking the lion for the defense of you. Mo, too. Let's poke with pointed objects the people defending, or behaving defensively, a guy who claimed scum.

[gorckat]

TIP acted pretty much like this as a Goon in a recent Newbie. If his town and scum games are indistinguishable and he's not showing a positive benefit in continuing to live, then he's a stone cold liability.

LOL @ spicer-scum making a reads list, listing several scums and leaving her vote on an undecided.

Just to make sure I got this right:

unvote
vote: spicer

[gorckat]

His vote. Sorry spicer. That's a rather effeminate mane and the name is a tad ambiguous. I erred.

[gorckat]

LOL @ spicer-scum making a reads list, listing several scums and leaving her vote on an undecided.

haha

[gorckat]

I'm guaranteeing one if not two scum are on this PL wagon, I need to look at the vote list first.

A little late, but I hate these kinds of statements. Divide the town in just about any 40/60 or 50/50 split at this point and we can get 1 or 2 scum.

Also not sure I like not's fishiness around TIP's half-claim. Seemed a bit excessive. Scum would be very eager to know why someone can't be lynched/won't die, esp with things like Super Saint on the table.

[gorckat]

Wow. Ima bout ready to go for that policy on TIP.

[gorckat]

That is a meaningless 'analysis' as nothing other than the obvious is 'revealed'.

TIP: Are you a governor?

[gorckat]

@not: That was different- you were poking at every possible option. I wanted to know if he was one specific role...

Because a governor is useless to us.

IF the town wants to lynch someone, we should not have TIP sitting aside to nullify that lynch. I do not trust TIP's town-judgement and TIP-scum would be LOL as a governor.

@TIP: It's meaningless in the sense of all you did was state what everyone looking at Ingrid's ISO should already see. No, Ingrid hasn't done anything useful. But all you did is recite, point and go, "Scum!".

I'll say again that TIP looks just like his scum game in the Newbie he and I recently finish. If it looks like his town game, then he is useless.

Policy: Yes

spicer is better lynch for hitting scum, but I'd settle for TIP.

[gorckat]

Only that someone (not, maybe?) said it looked like his town game.

That's why I said earlier that if there is no tangible benefit to the town in having him around (ie- he catches scum when he's town, so we ride the dragon a day or two and keep an eye on him), we lynch him. Or if his role has negative utility (governor), we off him.

[gorckat]

Has no one else played with TIP? I may have skimmed another game of his during that Newbie.

It's not a trusting of not, it's that:

1) This game looks like the Newbie we played- scumz

or


2) His play is always like this- unreadable, could be scumz, not helpful, possible liability

[gorckat]

Newbie 1384: TIP = Goon

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[gorckat]

URL broke before hitting ISO, but w/e.

[gorckat]

Kid A, I would like a read list.

reads lists are bad and i hate them so you dont get one

Partial credit.

don't do a reads list, but do top three scum reads, go.

Boom. 100%

[gorckat]

This is like a Thanksgiving dinner where grandma thought it would be nice to let the kids eat at the big people table and grandpa had like 4 beers before sitting down to carve the turkey with the new electric knife and everyone got shredded turkey instead of slices.

[gorckat]

@not: I'm being a fuddy duddy about the whipper snappers.

[gorckat]

@kid- it is also a perfectly reasonable position.

[gorckat]

unvote
Vote: notscience

[gorckat]

That's quaint.

Yeah. I think you are exhaustively defending a player who has shown nothing much.

[gorckat]

And?

That's the point of a policy lynch.

<redundant post>

His scum/town games are very similar. He has not exhibited a general usefulness to warrant ignoring that fact until his efforts can be weighed. He is a liability because as the players dwindle, his randomish nature makes him an ever-increasingly appealing lynch, but then we also have other people with scummy behavior to weigh.

</>

You are illogically persisting in defending him in the face of reason.
You have knowledge he's town.
Boom. Wrap it up and tie a bow on it.

[gorckat]

Why not?

[gorckat]

Why not?

This
question
sucks
so
much

Why not?

Is it scum motivated? Show your work

@not: TIP looks like he did in a recent scum game, too. And saying he does stupid shit as town sounds like you want to reward him for doing stupid shit.

[gorckat]

The game I linked in 279 that I guess you ignored.

(I guess direct links to ISOs don't work?)

[gorckat]

Gorckat, what is your read on notscience?

Scum.

Only postition/contribution is that this looks like TIP-town and is against a policy lynch.

Scum taking the good guy stance on a mislynch after fishing after TIP like Bill Dance on a private pond.

[gorckat]

Uh...no.

notsci (nazi!) has pushed the TIP-town idea harder than I'd expect an uninformed townie to push. If some people say 'TIP looks like his scum game' and no one else has a TIP-town game to point at, then I'd think a simple disagreement would be fine.

There is also no actual wagon to rail against- it is only the idea of one and the discussion of it.

notsci also has some unremarkable early game activity leading up to fishing your non-claim (why can't you claim, again? That got set aside prematurely).

[gorckat]

TIP claiming scum is not the reason I have put forth the policy idea.

It's that TIP's town and scum game are the same. It all really blew up when notsci said 'this is TIP-town' and I (and maybe someone else) said 'also looks like TIP-scum'.

Also, spicer- I ignored your earlier mention of my pursuing the TIP policy over scum because

I was voting you

. You subsequently, iirc, parroted what had been said TIP's less than stellar analysis of Ingrid.

Still like spicer-scum.

[gorckat]

I feel a little bad because I like TIP the person.

I just don't like TIP the player because his posting is nonsensical. I mean, sure, it's just a game, have fun, but there's ways to do that without making yourself hard to read.


Has TIP shown himself to be good at finding scum?

If he has, then the policy idea is basically nullified (he is worth keeping around to see how he helps).

If he hasn't, then we need to know if he is a governor. He never said 'I can't claim / I'm not allowed to claim'...he made a joke with Darox about being in danger and unable to claim.

I don't relish the TIP I've played with nullifying a lynch.

[gorckat]

Vla over weekend. Have phone but laptop dyong.

Will prob be unable to resist typos from phome posting.

Will syrive for succinct amd clear thoughts.

[gorckat]

If darix wrre a datvig hed solve the tip problem for us.

Aaand brwaking news on tv major fire near the oroperty I manage. Fuck.

[gorckat]

Ingrids return is useless. Not sure how I feel about jake atm. Feel like some duplicity but need to read on big screen.

Hate my wirk phones ketboard.

[gorckat]

@jake: wjz and fox baltimore: old seagrams distillery.

Work phone keyboard isnt often used. Prob need to ccalibrate. Personal phone bettr but btty died.

[gorckat]

notscience is in this game?
...

Pretty please, Darox? Do you need a haiku to get shit done like the development team does?

tip acts like a fool
scum or jester should be gone
bullet gets it done

I like Kid's review of notsci's ISO. Haven't looked back at Kid's to eval the pressure on him.

Jake seems fine- the back-forth with Amrun seems to be just over his getting up to speed. I rather like someone who just jumps in and gets caught up

in media res

rather than trying to read the whole thing and solve it in one go. Esp a game likethis that keeps growing- you never get caught up.

Think I'm already on not, but just in case:

unvote
vote: notscience

[gorckat]

Uh....no.

I just bothered to check (I wasn't bothered to earlier today) and I voted you in 308 and hadn't moved. I could have made no revote and it would have been the same sitch.

Lemme waste a minute skimming back to Kid.

[gorckat]

@notsci. Sorry. Should made the pre-post edit.

[gorckat]

Eh...Kid's 339-362 are a bit icky, but I get a town vibe of his early posts.

[gorckat]

@JAke:

i was gonna say a mafia is on the tip wagon but then i realised im not on epicmafia?????

hey spicer why are you soft chainsawing for TIP

anyone who isnt voting darox is mafia BTW

(notscience has hydrad with theirishpope i think you can probably trust his read somewhat)

The above posts give me a townish vibe, esp the last (although if TIP flips scum, it might need re-evaluating).

I will do this right after Darox says what he thinks of the wagon on him because he answer will probably change the list anyway

yeah but i want to know if he thinks its town driven or scum driven or town driven with some scum on it or scum driven with some scum on it or whatever

The last two get a little iffy and he veers off voting moz after you were in the game.

I'm not scared of the notsci wagon by Kid being on it.

[gorckat]

Blech...never mind re 282...

-282 Kid says we can probably trust notsci's read on TIP because they have hydra-ed
-301 notsci votes moz
-339 Kid votes moz
-362 Kid says moz/notsci are partners

The starting and ending points are inconsistent. Either notsci is town and we may consider they hydra with TIP or notsci is scum and any read they make is informed.

unvote

[gorckat]

my post about notsci and moz being partners (362) was based on post 301

Elaborate because the reasoning 301 made them partners is unspoken.

[gorckat]

a vote with no explanation on someone he'd barely acknowledged before struck me as a bus

Do you think that makes the voter or the voted scummier?

[gorckat]

But isn't it summer break?

My sister has a class starting next week- Early fall and late summer classes, I guess.

Darox- what makes you lean town on Kid?

and the second was because mozamis was one of my scumreads

For what reasons?

a vote with no explanation on someone he'd barely acknowledged before struck me as a bus

Do you think that makes the voter or the voted scummier?

[gorckat]

I guess on Tuesday's people actually do work?

[gorckat]

vote: Kid A

He won't answer a damn thing.

[gorckat]

Holy shit that was uncool.

A dayvig can give town an extra lynch. If kid was at the top of the list, popping them would have been right.

[gorckat]

vote: Kid A

I mean...who expects answers to questions people ask of them?

[gorckat]

and the second was because mozamis was one of my scumreads

For what reasons?

a vote with no explanation on someone he'd barely acknowledged before struck me as a bus

Do you think that makes the voter or the voted scummier?

It's one thing to ignore a question once- I often do that as town when I don't have an answer or think it's out of left field and pulls attention from a wagon I'm pushing or whatever.

But a re-quote asking again and skipping it is just meh. And my pointing it out is a bit of a dig at him asking Jake stuff.

[gorckat]

Rather, asking notsci stuff.

[gorckat]

Stalling > actually answering questions. All the townies are doing it.

[gorckat]

Mod...am on cell phone at brony con. Please accept:

Bold
Unvote
Vote notscience
Unbold

As a vote on notsci.

That wad the hedgiyist i dont want to hammer a towmie post ive seen in awhile.

Accepted

[gorckat]

I dont think kid and notsci are scum together. Notscis hedge and claim to wait a couple more days is scummy hesitation.

[gorckat]

Tbh if kid a flips town you're highly likely to be scum. I liked that jump off, though he should put his vote back because that claim should die.

So if kid is town i am scum and i he is scum i am scum?

[gorckat]

Nm amrun. It was notsci that said i was scum if kid flipped scum

[gorckat]

I would lynch kid to avoid no lynch. Brinycon is in baktimore, so im still good.

I am hunting after notsci for the intent/hedge.

[gorckat]

unvote
Vote kid a

[gorckat]

Because im at a con, have court tomorrow and now kid is at l-1.

If i had a good shot at hving a lot of time today/tomorrow to post from pc i might push more for notsci, but i dont think there is a lot more to say. I think hiss ' so confused' post re claim is shitty but w/e.

[gorckat]

Sundy- did kid jave those cases when you gave intent?

[gorckat]

Checking in.

Jake- did you read back to what I had posted re: notsci?

[gorckat]

Glancing back, it's not collated in a single or pair of posts like I recalled. It's an over time vibe and appearance of lacking and scummy behavior.

[gorckat]

Never had a chance to make the post I started earlier (at least I now have the cell phone # and a solid relationship with a Narcotics detective...)

notsci fished hard for TIP, throwing out multiple roles, whereas I was asking TIP to clarify why he couldn't claim his role after it was settled by all of us that he was a governor (big diff between a PR, loss of power if he claimed, not understanding the rules about what he can say, etc etc).

I also don't like how confused about things notsci got when Kid claimed.

There was also the early and often defense of TIP- I think I called it more than an uninformed player should be, esp considering it was meta based and notsci was being told by multiple people that TIP's meta was shite.

[gorckat]

Well piss off then, right?

If you don't care what anyone else thinks, just vote and be silent.

[gorckat]

No way scum have day and night kills.

Voting Darox is saying we have a town night vig who thought Amrun was scum or this town night vig was trying to wipe Darox without outing themselves and Amrun got in the way.

[gorckat]

I don't like Jake, anymore.

vote: Jake

Early on, makes no push for Darox to pop his sucmspects (Kid and Amrun) or TIP (he does later, but not at first).

I don't like the reversal from Darox-obv-town to Darox-obv-scum...way fast. I don't think it is town-thought that gets there.

Additional gut triggers when re-reading Jake/moz/Darox comb-iso. Moves and positions are feeling correct from a scum POV.

Not sure where I want to put AA9 and notsci.

[gorckat]

unvote

Not sure what, if anything to make of Jake after that scene with AA9.

And then this:

and I'm waiting for AA9 to actually start doing shit. Right now it just seems like a PL (admittedly the predecessor was scummy), but I'm not ready to end the day this early on a PL.

Phrasing triggers, here.

Feels like scum not wanting to pile on and bus a partner.

[gorckat]

Eh- never mind. Missed that notsci had been voting AA9 when reading this page.

[gorckat]

Clarify. What is your role and number.

[gorckat]

"Gorkart - He played with me before, and i was town in every single game i played with him. He should know by then that is town me. So his continuous contribution towards lynching me despite he know that town me always like this... doesn't seem fair nor sounds like townie"

This game is setting a record for dumbest things ever said.

Answer my question.

[gorckat]

Really fucking tired of the lack of AA9. Can we get a replacement??

Technically she's not in prod range, but I'm annoyed she chose not to post in this game yesterday.

I'm kind of hung up waiting for some claim clarification, partly because I haven't gone back to re-read anything else since she claimed.

[gorckat]

Only scum come up with reads! Town HAVE them!

</snark>

Sigh.

[gorckat]

@aa9: re notsci..."If he is scum, I wouldn’t expect him to spill out and make it appear as role fishing (although I am surprised why nobody suspected him for that)"

Did you really read any of my posts?

Wtf is your number?

[gorckat]

Also lol at another town-scum list where the scummiest isnt voted.

Still scanning, but i prob wont be on (wife back in hosp and waiting on a call from the gang unit re my property.

[gorckat]

JESUS FUCKINH XHRIST AA9 WTF IS YOUR GOD DAMNEF NUMBER.

What. Is. Your. Number.

It might mean mothing to me b u t i keep asking.

Reread my post re why i have nothing else to say rigjt now. Meat world ia busy and all i gt is my phone. Not conducive to detailed reading and consideration of your posts...although funny you ignote the fact that i called out notsci for fishing tip and said that you wee surprised mo one did,

Is aa9 spicers replacement? Iforget.

[gorckat]

@Aa9: i needed your number to help decide how much vs your claim had. Flay confirming flowers made it partly null, but jake did point out the lack od french in your name.

I also had a question to you re my pinging notsci for fishing. You were surprised no one had, but i had.

[gorckat]

Bs not vs. Sorry. Phone.

[gorckat]

Aa9 does your pm suggest the lover knows who they are?

[gorckat]

I cant help but feel that aa9 is either misrepping the kid lynch on purpose or she didnt reaf the game. And stoll ignores my question re me, notsci and tip fishing.

The number was relevant to your name claim and an allusion in my role.

@Mod: please accept my phone vote.
Phone bold
Vote: aa9
End phone bold

Phone vote accepted

[gorckat]

I recieved a message last night somewhere along the lines of
"I will kill you, scum"
Claim your message.

Similar with the addition they want me to bus, even they "know" my partner.

[gorckat]

Ill be back monday, sooner if i get to a keyboard. I thought my post was clear tgat i got a similar message with aded deets.

[gorckat]

I could go with gorckat. He didn't bus his partner like he was supposed to

Did you send the message?

[gorckat]

Your message was bullshit. It was o know your partner, bus or die.

Like duh, out the fucking scum.

Nsuns post re what i thoughy was clear was annoying bec as yse answering anything more than i havr f Ty om phone is a groin pain.

So i wad gonna wait til monday.

Your messsage was unsubtlw and ham handed.

[gorckat]

Thats the hammy part. "I know ur scum and ill shoot your partner uf u dont bus" not exaxt quote

If it were really from darox hed have been shooting.

[gorckat]

my note for gorckat wasn't really for reactions, it was for lulz so I honestly had no idea how he would react. I guess I was kind of naive and hoping he would come out the box voting, but I knew he probably wouldn't.

Okay- since I can't quote the message directly, clarify if I step wrong:

You claim to know me and my partner
You are going to shoot him unless I want to bus for town cred
If I don't bus, I get shot

I got that the morning the game opened. You, Nsin and Darox posted before me, Nsin claiming to have gotten a similar message with no clarification it was Night 1 (if I understand you correctly about who got what).

Darox made no poke at Nsin's message so it didn't seem that he would have sent it. It seemed like there was something else going on with two people getting a message- perhaps that the sender thinks I am scum with Nsin and perhaps that there is a bona fide vig and Darox was a scum vig after all.

By the time you suggest I am scum, you've made three or four posts.

Scanning the next page and a half to current, I see some of my surliness last night originates with not picking up that Nsin/Sundy got the message night one. I took 'no way town gets message and lurks' as you accusing me of lurking today when I couldn't have engaged in anything substantive without a real keyboard.

Anyway- I had been leaning a bit towards calling the confused people (Flay and notsci) scum. Reminds me of my first newbie (when flavor was allowed) and Seol accidentally power claimed by suggesting each player had gotten a unique name and the most confused people were me and my partner.

[gorckat]

Are we due for a mass claom? There are a lot of moving parts. That or a nolynch or darox shot to get vack on odds.

[gorckat]

Are you a hydra?

[gorckat]

Are you a hydra?

No, there's only one (bad) brain behind this face.

I'm an alt, if that satisfies your curiosity.

It does. I have been veru crodgety this game and dont want to call you a twizzle brained noob if you arent.

Ill take the vlowovers of massclaom as a vote for no. Darox do yoi still have a shot?

[gorckat]

If you have so many shots why didn't you shoot yesterday?

BECAUSE THAT AWFUL LYNCH HAPPENED FIRST.

That awful lynch was three days before deadline.

We have ~six days now.

How much time do you think is enough to rally after a shot?

[gorckat]

/Out

Wife in hospital and work has some kind of unspoken problem with me. Wiped out for now.

[gorckat]

I think we suffered a bit from the AA9/Jake personality conflict, TIP's VI-ness and my own inability to put the time needed in (thanks, Magua, for doing the slot better service).

I think there is a worthy title nom somewhere between Jake 'dropping' the hammer and notsci swinging with it.

[gorckat]

had darox shot you flay, I would have known right away scum was NS/NSin.

Left alive: Darox, Magua, Jake, notsci, Nsin

Was Magua leaning town on Darox?

I was also thinking I was the only VT for a minute.

[gorckat]

Yeah- the more I think about it, the less I think setting yourself up for vigging is a good idea.

Isn't town self-hammering bad? Seems the same principle applies.