Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Shamrock]

I think we all agree on Lucky2u being scum, he doesn't even retort to anything anymore himself. CDB is the other one. Lynch them and town wins this game.

Man you guys are going to be disappointed when I flip town. Seems like you have made up your mind.

I'll throw my vote here until otherwise moved. VOTE: Stupendous Man

What do you think about my argument above that SM is town because of Ztife's interactions with him

[Lucky2u]

Your argument is that the interaction at 161 between Ztife and BP (Stu's slot) is proof that Stu is town because why? They were arguing about a no lynch logic that BP has and why it was bad. No one was agreeing with BP, and Ztife probably didn't want to be dragged down with this guy who was advocating a NL. Hell, I haven't been on the site long but even I know that NL is not a popular day 1 move. If I were scum I would have started bussing my partner as soon as they brought that up so I don't get tied to it or seem like I was allowing it.

[Shamrock]

What about that post looks like a bus to you exactly? Nobody else was attacking BP with the intensity of Ztife

[Slandaar]

I don't see why it can't be a bus, the interactions between BP and Ztife felt different to BP and RD for example who was arguing a similar thing.

[Slandaar]

What is your read on Future, Red Dragon
And what about you Ztife? How do you feel about the wagon behind his name and the people on it?

I mean, he isn't the worst d1 lynch. But I think bp is miles better.

Y U focus on me so much?

This in particular is a good example of the difference.

[Grimgroove]

What do you mean by "difference"? I don't think Red Dragon was bussing BP there. In fact, he was trying to draw attention away from Ztife by trying to focus on BP. The post you just brought up actually points to Red Dragon being scum with Ztife.

@mod

:I have another V/LA coming up, last one for a long while so nothing to be concerned about, and also relatively short compared to the last one :p, starting from Thursday 15th until Monday 19th. DEFINITELY will be able to post Monday evening again.

My vote on Lucky2u stays, but I agree with Slandaar that it would be neat if CDB would post, more specifically his case against Shamrock.

[StupendousMan]

Although Lucky's voting habits and posts have been very scummy, I am now more inclined to believe that CDB is scum. Take a look at RD's mentions of Ztife:

Spoiler: Red Dragon and Ztife

Almost forgot:

VOTE: Ztife

You mkae quite to compelling case for zitfe. Just a quick question, is elyse or nachomamma scum? Meaning is it highly unlikely, in your opinion, for them both to be of the same alignment?

Acknowledges that the Ztife case is good, but tries to shift the attention onto Elyse and Nachomamma.

The only things I got pissy about were Slandaar's post (I was tired) and RD's post (way out of line). I certainly don't dish it out as harsh as RD just did. I never insult someone personally for no reason.

trust me, if it was personal you would have heard a lot more. I think my post is an accurate description of the situation at hand.

I get the case on zitfe, but right now I feel like nachomama is the right course of action.

For the second time he acknowledges that the Ztife case is good, but still prefers to vote for Nachomamma.

Red Dragon, what are your current townreads and scumreads?

I find grim and elyse to be town right now. Slandar is a tricky bastard that could go either way, so I would keep an eye on him. I still don't like how you waffle around so much. Zitfe could also be scum, but that is mostly gut... he seems to just lurk around.

Admits that Ztife could be scum in a very noncommittal way. He's trying very hard to avoid voting him.

_____________________


After this, CDB comes onto the stage and gives some good reasons for voting Ztife. However, as Slandaar mentioned earlier, it is very easy to spot your partner's mistakes. His play does not make up for RD's very scummy posts (most of which included him saying that he deserved to be lynched and not putting up a defense) and suspicious attitude toward Ztife. Also, the fact that CDB said he would give a case for Shamrock being scum and hasn't done so has made me very suspicious of him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CDB

[SunnyDays]

On further consideration, I'm actually going to put off an in-depth look at Red Dragon until he gets replaced, partly because his ISO is long and gives me a headache and partly because I'm wondering if my scumread on him is because he annoys me and I want to see if the replacement changes my impressions of the slot.

If anyone transitioned into the Ztife wagon randomly when the pressure was on and went full swing from there is was Shamrock. He even implied it was a temp push until he could look at CDB and then CDB replaced in and it never happened

I would want this or Slandaar lynched today. Slandaar's been leading the team around by the leash and hasn't ended up doing ANYTHING helpful for us. All he's done is make us massclaim and waste time arguing when people like Shamrock are MIA

I don't know what this is supposed to mean considering I replaced in and attacked Ztife at the beginning of the day. I haven't looked much at CDB because CDB hasn't done much of anything.

I think attacking one person an entire day from the moment you join the game, and that person happening to be scum, is weird. It's artificial. I went three whole days in the game up to the point and I mean, sure, I thought several people were scum since my replace-in but I wasn't POSITIVE and I wavered a bit in my mind. It just seems...weird to be so dead-set on someone being scum, and then especially when that person is scum. And then the CDB sidetrack promise. It's intuitively scummy to me that you would do that. CDB did a lot yesterday, he convinced me to vote Ztife, I read CDB's posts and I really believe his progression onto Ztife. I see a brain there, working. With you I see a robot.

VOTE: Shamrock

I don't think you really believe CDB "hasn't done much of anything". Then vote him! You're lying to protect yourself, and just saying "hey, I'm a human that forgot to check back and read a player" would have been a more palatable response.

[Shamrock]

... Are you aware that I literally just made a case on CDB's slot on the last page?

[Lucky2u]

What about that post looks like a bus to you exactly? Nobody else was attacking BP with the intensity of Ztife

Well I guess my real point was that, as Slandaar said, there is no reason to say it CANT be a bus with 100 percent accuracy. It's possible it was for the motivation I just gave, and it's possible it wasn't. I want to know why you think there is no way it was a bus.

[Shamrock]

I don't recall saying there is "no way" it was a bus. I just think it's very unlikely that Ztife, particularly as a fairly inexperienced player, would come out of the gate guns blazing on his scumbuddy.

[StupendousMan]

... Are you aware that I literally just made a case on CDB's slot on the last page?

Then why aren't you voting him?

[Lucky2u]

I don't recall saying there is "no way" it was a bus. I just think it's very unlikely that Ztife, particularly as a fairly inexperienced player, would come out of the gate guns blazing on his scumbuddy.

Why do you think it's unlikely? In My very first scum experience I did that day 1 page 1. It was only my 3rd ever game and I was still in my 2nd newbie game. Inexperienced players are wild cards. Tell me why Ztife specifically wouldn't do that, not why an inexperienced player wouldn't.

[SunnyDays]

... Are you aware that I literally just made a case on CDB's slot on the last page?

First off, that wasn't my point. My point is that you didn't do that YESTERDAY

Second, you said prior that you didn't make a case or comment on CDB yesterday because he hasn't posted much of anything. Since then he's posted nothing new and now you're able to make a case, so you LIED

[ac1983fan]

Votecount

StupendousMan (2) - Slandaar, Lucky2u (L-2)

ChannelDelibird (1) - StupendousMan
Shamrock (1) - SunnyDays
Lucky2u (1) Grimgroove

Not Voting (2) - Shamrock, ChannelDelibird
With 7 alive, it'll take four to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2013-08-19 22:30:00)

[StupendousMan]

Grim, help me lynch CDB. We can get Lucky tomorrow.

[Slandaar]

I don't even know what to think anymore

Grim is town, Sunny is town, I am obviously town so its 2 from 4.

I am going to post my thoughts on things later including what I think makes people scum and what I think makes people town if for no other reason than to ensure everyone knows I am town beyond doubt.

[Lucky2u]

UNVOTE:

i lost my confidence in that vote awhile ago, might as well make it official.

[ac1983fan]

Prodding CDB.

[Lucky2u]

So who we lynching? Where is everyone?

[Shamrock]

... Are you aware that I literally just made a case on CDB's slot on the last page?

First off, that wasn't my point. My point is that you didn't do that YESTERDAY

Second, you said prior that you didn't make a case or comment on CDB yesterday because he hasn't posted much of anything. Since then he's posted nothing new and now you're able to make a case, so you LIED

Except that if you read my case you'll see that the entire thing pivots on Ztife's alignment -- so, no, I couldn't have made it yesterday.

Anyway.

VOTE: lucky

[ac1983fan]

Votecount

Lucky2u (2) - Grimgroove, Shamrock (L-2)

ChannelDelibird (1) - StupendousMan
StupendousMan (1) - Slandaar
Shamrock (1) - SunnyDays

Not Voting (2) - ChannelDelibird, Lucky2u
With 7 alive, it'll take four to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2013-08-19 22:30:00).

I'll be V/LA starting tomorrow until Tuesday. Malakittens will be covering for me during that time period.

[SunnyDays]

Mod I'm voting shamrock

fix'd.

[Slandaar]

OK I said I would do this yesterday but its time consuming to do and things happen, anyways, I am going to go through the 4 suspects starting with the BP/Stranger/Stu slot.

Now Firstly, I wish to say the main reason I had a townread on this slot for large periods is in the hood qt early on I asked BP to claim and he didn't understand what I was asking for. Now this to me seemed like a townslip because I feel as town he would think I already know his role; Neighbour while as scum I think he would have an answer or think of one etc.

This is all good, the trouble is, I feel in posting later on from the slot it mostly comes across as scum. I just don't know if I want to ignore the above its possible he just didn't know as scum what I was asking I suppose if he was a complete newbie (this is what I have begun to think).

Grim you can post your thoughts as you are the only other person who actually KNOWS what I am talking about.

Now looking at the actual posting from the slot;

Dragon you still have not enlightened me as to what the random votes in this game achieved.

you are seeing it right now.

Discussion. Gives you more than talking about what the weather is outside or what D&D PC you like to play.

Actually, my No-Lynch post created most of the discussion. RVS achieved nothing until then. Unless Future actually turns out to be scum.

The thing with this is he seems to be attempting to try and claim credit for something he purposefully did. Yes it did generate discussion but that wasn't his goal.

Again, no one had said anything about that. But Baezu can't wait to get to the lynch. He is eager, people, to lynch someone, and I don't know if he's a townie in desperate need for a scum lynch or scum wanting to lynch an innocent.

You may need to go and look at this post but BP basically posted a wall on Baezu and then concludes with a very fencesitting stance of 'Well after all that I don't know what to think'

BTW, my possible town / guilty list:

TOWN: Slandaar, Grimgroove
GUILTY: Darthe, Future, Baezu

These ones haven't posted in a way as to give me a read: Elyse, chernobylcitybus, Peregrine V and thegooner.

Also: torn about Red Dragon.

Obviously I am writing this going through his ISO but this is interesting. He missed Ztife.

I tend to think that is a towntell; he missed someone else which I think is Nachos slot.

And researching Ztifes posting history tells us he hadn't posted at that point. That does look town definitely more likely to forget Ztife as town than when hes your buddy.

Well, I just want to prompt anyone from hammering Future. It's unwise to do so this early.

I voted for a reason. Future still hasn't spoken for himself. I want to hear from him before unvoting or going for a lynch.

It is pretty bad to leave your vote on someone while also saying you don't want a hammer; unvote if you don't want a hammer. This was obviously on Future who is now Sunny who is town so there is obvious benefits for scum leaving their vote on the wagon while trying to act protown by saying 'no hammer yet!'

What is your read on Future, Red Dragon
And what about you Ztife? How do you feel about the wagon behind his name and the people on it?

I mean, he isn't the worst d1 lynch. But I think bp is miles better.

Y U focus on me so much?

This post is quite a big thing for a few reasons.

1. It is one of the few things which makes RD look town which I will get to at some point
2. It is in fact a scumtell in newbies, it is not actually known on MS as far as I am aware but elsewhere people do use this as a tell and it does work. RD responded with the WHY ME???? post which is the tell in purest form (implying he knew of it)
3. It also shows a difference in how BP interacts with RD and Ztife(known scum) with Ztife its quite serious but with RD its why me?

Now if you actually look through Ztifes ISO, the attack on BP is actually very short lived its in fact 1 post. ONE then a brief one later, there isn't really an intensity to it.

Then Stranger replaced BP

I have said this before however, I do not like how she entered the game said she had read the ENTIRE thread then had to go and ISO each person individually to get reads. It is very methodical and seems very fake to me.

It also reads like she has reads in this post;

Well, I better get some sleep now, I'll try to post my reads as soon as possible, and perhaps a collective table with everyone's reads so we can compare and analyse easier. Good night ^^;

But she had to ISO people saying in the hood qt she had no reads.

Now, the order of her reads, Elyse->Baezu I understood was due to wagons but how was Darthe third and why did she never finish these ISO's?

Again in the QT I know some of you don't have access to this but if you do not believe me ask Grim, she accused Darthe after he flipped town of bullshitting.

This clearly is untrue, he did not do such a thing, he was town that is not a town reaction at all.

I was waiting for Baezu to answer the question, but her response is pretty satisfactory. I think her claim is genuine. I've been suspecting it since the beginning, but kept my mouth shut. The way she requested doctor protection several times before even claiming was a huge giveaway. Baezu is 100% town in my eyes.

It's beyond question she was roleblocked.

This post is terrible. How is calling for doc protection any kind of sign she is cop and not just scum faking town?

Obviously to scum it is a lot more clear Baezu is a PR.

Now onto her read on me, in the qt as I have said she included 'I was right on Darthe' How does that make me town? its so FAKE.

If you actually look it is like a slow bus on Ztife she was doing voting him on the day he was almost guaranteed to die straight away and not before then.

Onto Stu who I have posted most of what I think today so you can reread today if you like but something I have had in my mind recently s he keeps trying to pull people away from lucky.
Example 1.

So there are 3 possible scenarios right now(again, assuming a trio):

1. There are two inactive mafia.
2. There is one inactive and one active mafia.
3. There are two active mafia.

3 is least likely considering how this day phase has gone so far. 1 is likely, but 2 seems the most likely. So as we both continue our bickering there is at least one mafia that is hiding from any trouble, and not offering anything this day phase to go off of in lylo.

It feels like he was trying to divert me in particular into the lurkers when by his numbers one of the actives is scum too so what is the point in the post in the first place? (except if hes scum to divert)
Example 2.

Grim, help me lynch CDB. We can get Lucky tomorrow.

Now in favour of Stu today are 2 small things from him 1. in the qt posting multiple times in a row to try to talk to me/grim and the second is he thinks his case on lucky was good, I find that is more a town trait at least I think it is the mentality that as town you believe your cases are good even if they are not (you wouldn't make them otherwise) but as scum its more 'I made a case whatever'

Overall this just kind of shows how I have been thinking about this slot through the game, it outlines very well how I had BP as town but it also show how the read degraded with Stranger and why I still think the slot is scum but I am not completely sure especially with the BP reads thing.

tl;dr: Slandaar is town, if you want to work with me to figure out the scum you should read this and discuss otherwise just assume I am town and do what you want.

[Lucky2u]

I'll sheep you if you don't hammer me Slandaar