NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Tebow]

323, 387, 428

In #323, Chevre's jump on the emogirl wagon is not unfounded. In fact, his reasonings in doing so are well-though out and easy to follow. Therefore, him placing the L-1 vote is not scummy.

Let's look at these 'well-thought out reasons.'

1/

A lot of her actions are suspicious to me, and

2.

these pages have been so dominated by her and discussion of her that I feel her flip would produce the most fruitful relationship analysis tomorrow.

1) Unspecified 'she's been scummy' 2) Lynch for information. The first is vague and useless, the second is scummy for all the reasons that have been pointed out previously.

Calling out emogirl for "defending Garmr, calling Garmr a townread while noting his posts were 'flaily'". Calling out emogirl for doing the same to Meanara.

This is definitely not scummy on emogirl's part. 'Flailing' is not a scumtell. Someone can be town, and can be losing their shit, at which point they aren't worth listening to.

I agree with the logic of Linking Bulbazak and Garmr to emogirl.

Well, hang on, why? The 'logic' of linking bulbazak and Garmr to emogirl is this: "I do think there is something strange about Garmr and Bulbazak's play, but I don't really know for sure where it is going because it is so greatly linked to emogirl." How is this logic? Vaguely asserts something out of the ordinary about how two people are playing, doesn't say what it is or if it's scummy, and it's apparently somehow 'linked' to emogirl in a way he also doesn't spell out. IE Here's something, I don't know what it is because of something to do with another player.

I agree with the logic of info from an emogirl flip will help "define the relationships for many people to [emogirl] with confirmed alignment"

Lynch for information, SCUMMY! HOW will it define these relationships? What will he, or you, be able to do with this information?

I agree with the logic that with emogirl being dead the attention will be "[focused] on those who aren't really contributing".

If this is a problem, why can't you focus on the non-contributors now? "People are focussing on emogirl, this is allowing people to get away with lurking, therefore let's wagon emogirl." LOLNO.

In #387, Chevre's unvote on emogirl is not unfounded either. I have felt the same about the matter he mentioned.

You having the same feeling doesn't mean you have any good basis for that feeling.

I agree with the logic that scum would not have done what emogirl had done. And that is, "when someone has tried to start a counterwagon to that of her own, she has gone against it. First with Maenara and now kabooooom. [He doesn't] see scum doing that".

Right, fine. Assume you're scum who's been caught piling onto a bad wagon with shit reasons. You realize that if the lynch goes through, you're going to be PE#1 tomorrow. At the same time, you can't just unvote immediately, because it would be nakedly obvious you'd just tried to push the leading wagon over the top, and chickened out when called on it. So instead, you wait until you see something, anything, that a town player might intepret as evidence of that player's town-ness that you can use as an excuse. All the while being careful not to do so in a way that would actually convince anyone else to jump off the wagon.

I mean, it's not impossible a town player would find her townish for that reason. But scum don't tend to do things that town would never ever ever do. They tend to do things that help them achieve their goals, for which they're able to give town-sounding excuses. I mean, that's pretty much scum 101.

In the first paragraph of #428, (at this point he is at L-4 with a sudden momentum shift towards the build-up of his wagon), he clarifies his unvote on the emogirl wagon, which was backed up in his #387.

In the second paragraph, he lies down the potential that both emogirl and his lynch will bring about. There is no scum motivation to be found here, only genuine towniness.

Read: he keeps his options open with regard to wagoning emogirl in future. As for the potential, literally all lynches have this potential. Any lynch is going to have people voting for it, people opposing it, 'connections' etc. Why are these two lynches special? Here, it seems rather than trying to work out who the best lynch is, he's going "It's day one so whatever" and trying to act all self-sacrificing in the hope people will read that as town. No. If you're town, the very worst thing you can do is give up without a fight for 'information.'

If he's town, he's playing horribly. The scum hypothesis seems equally valid, though. Your post has moved YOU into my town column, because you come across genuine, but at the same time reminded me why I think you're oh so wrong. I'm not certain he's scum, obviously, but he's more than scummy enough to be an excellent day one lynch.

[emogirl123]

just woke up,

catching up

hmmm. just woke up. again. kabooooom, why aren't you placing chevre at L-1? I kinda wish you did. The bolded part of this quote was a lie.

[emogirl123]

Before I am lynched, what do players want from me other than an attempt at reads? I'll work on that later tonight.

I'm actually waiting on this.

[Huntress]

Zdenek replaces Maenara. Welcome!

Acidic_TACO has been prodded.

[Zdenek]

Hello.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Cool, Zdenek is in the game!

[yessiree]

1/

A lot of her actions are suspicious to me, and

2.

these pages have been so dominated by her and discussion of her that I feel her flip would produce the most fruitful relationship analysis tomorrow.

1) Unspecified 'she's been scummy' 2) Lynch for information. The first is vague and useless, the second is scummy for all the reasons that have been pointed out previously.

I'll give you this one. This is the part where I mentioned his vote is scummy at a first glance.

Calling out emogirl for "defending Garmr, calling Garmr a townread while noting his posts were 'flaily'". Calling out emogirl for doing the same to Meanara.

This is definitely not scummy on emogirl's part. 'Flailing' is not a scumtell. Someone can be town, and can be losing their shit, at which point they aren't worth listening to.

The focus here isn't on Garmr being flaily. The focus here is the fact that emogirl was defending Garmr because she and Garmr were being chained and attacked by Bulbazak. But she denied doing so, and instead claimed she was defending herself. Chevre called out on that skewed notion.

I agree with the logic of Linking Bulbazak and Garmr to emogirl.

Well, hang on, why? The 'logic' of linking bulbazak and Garmr to emogirl is this: "I do think there is something strange about Garmr and Bulbazak's play, but I don't really know for sure where it is going because it is so greatly linked to emogirl." How is this logic? Vaguely asserts something out of the ordinary about how two people are playing, doesn't say what it is or if it's scummy, and it's apparently somehow 'linked' to emogirl in a way he also doesn't spell out. IE Here's something, I don't know what it is because of something to do with another player.

You're gonna have to let Chevre answer about this one.

I agree with the logic of info from an emogirl flip will help "define the relationships for many people to [emogirl] with confirmed alignment"

Lynch for information, SCUMMY! HOW will it define these relationships? What will he, or you, be able to do with this information?

How is the desire to lynch for information scummy? especially on day 1? If emogirl flips town, her reads will be treated with more credibility. If emogirl flips scum, we will know bulbazak is full of shit.

I agree with the logic that with emogirl being dead the attention will be "[focused] on those who aren't really contributing".

If this is a problem, why can't you focus on the non-contributors now? "People are focussing on emogirl, this is allowing people to get away with lurking, therefore let's wagon emogirl." LOLNO.

Logically it makes sense, doesn't mean it has to be a good move. It wasn't just to

wagon

emogirl; his intent is to

lynch

her outright, so the attention is forced to be focused on the lurkers if Chevre considered her content to be noise.

In #387, Chevre's unvote on emogirl is not unfounded either. I have felt the same about the matter he mentioned.

You having the same feeling doesn't mean you have any good basis for that feeling.

I agree with the logic that scum would not have done what emogirl had done. And that is, "when someone has tried to start a counterwagon to that of her own, she has gone against it. First with Maenara and now kabooooom. [He doesn't] see scum doing that".

Right, fine. Assume you're scum who's been caught piling onto a bad wagon with shit reasons. You realize that if the lynch goes through, you're going to be PE#1 tomorrow. At the same time, you can't just unvote immediately, because it would be nakedly obvious you'd just tried to push the leading wagon over the top, and chickened out when called on it. So instead, you wait until you see something, anything, that a town player might intepret as evidence of that player's town-ness that you can use as an excuse. All the while being careful not to do so in a way that would actually convince anyone else to jump off the wagon.

I mean, it's not impossible a town player would find her townish for that reason. But scum don't tend to do things that town would never ever ever do. They tend to do things that help them achieve their goals, for which they're able to give town-sounding excuses. I mean, that's pretty much scum 101.

So it's equally valid to see this as coming from either town or scum.

In the first paragraph of #428, (at this point he is at L-4 with a sudden momentum shift towards the build-up of his wagon), he clarifies his unvote on the emogirl wagon, which was backed up in his #387.

In the second paragraph, he lies down the potential that both emogirl and his lynch will bring about. There is no scum motivation to be found here, only genuine towniness.

Read: he keeps his options open with regard to wagoning emogirl in future. As for the potential, literally all lynches have this potential. Any lynch is going to have people voting for it, people opposing it, 'connections' etc. Why are these two lynches special? Here, it seems rather than trying to work out who the best lynch is, he's going "It's day one so whatever" and trying to act all self-sacrificing in the hope people will read that as town. No. If you're town, the very worst thing you can do is give up without a fight for 'information.'

It's bad play as town I know. But so many town players have one it in the past it grayed out the boundary.

[Slandaar]

I don't want any lynching for a while (on anyone) as I am conducting some very valuable investigations. I half oppose half don't care about the chevre wagon; it seems very meh to me.

[yessiree]

Before I am lynched, what do players want from me other than an attempt at reads? I'll work on that later tonight.

I'm actually waiting on this.

while you wait, you owe me this

You and ABR are the most scummy votes on my wagon. I want a flip on Bulbazak for information, if scum would lead to the questioning of Maestro and Sotty. Maenara is probably town. Kaboom/NS are null. I scum read Bulbazak more than Garmr, but maybe others disagree.

Can you give a summary on Bulb-scum please, your ISO had like 53 instances of "bulb"

and this

emogirl123.townLean(); // #108 prying info from Garmr with vote noted, this is a better opening than Bulbazak's, my slot's, Slandaar's, Acidic_TACO's, and Nobody_Special's opening so far

set-up spec null

emogirl123.scumLean(); // #131, still voting Garmr while calling Aegor's attack on Garmr discrediting

// #133, honestly, I don't know what to make of this emogirl123 vs. Bulbazak, if emogirl hasn't made #131, it would have been easier for me to judge, but emogirl was STILL voting Garmr when she just suddenly switched to voting Bulbazak. But it's not scummy since, daymn, ASSOCIATION TELL, on page 6, ASSOCIATION TELL ON PAGE FUCKING SIX

Not gonna discard the possibility of scum vs scum yet, but both of them are not too towny-looking at this point

emogirl123.scumLean(); // #136, hmmm... you were on that toxic Garmr wagon until Bulbazak posted #132

emogirl123.scumLean(); // #144, please explain, you were the initial driving force on the Garmr wagon, and you didn't do anything as to stop further momentum from building until Bulbazak questioned you

[Albert B. Rampage]

yessiree, do you have any questions for me?

[yessiree]

yes, give me a sec

[emogirl123]

while you wait, you owe me this

To be honest, I want to lynch Bulbazak more than Chevre. Now do you understand why I haven't been posting yet and am currently waiting on Chevre?

[emogirl123]

emogirl123.scumLean(); // #131, still voting Garmr while calling Aegor's attack on Garmr discrediting

Just something quick to add, my #131 attack on Aegor happened after #124 which gave me a weak town read on Garmr. I was on the said "toxic wagon" because I started the wagon. I started the wagon because I didn't like Garmr's posts and saw scum motivation behind them. By #124, I see town motivation and changed my play to find player taking advantage of the wagon.

[yessiree]

Firstly, you calling out on emogirl being confident should result in a lynch struck me as odd.

I'm perfectly happy with a lynch on emogirl for the nonce. She seems way too overconfident.

you stated you wanted to lynch emogirl due to her overconfidence. I saw this as almost hypocritical since you were still in a process to

[trying] to catch up on this soon.

yo do realize the same can be applied to you.

Apart from this, why is lynching someone because he/she being overconfident is a good scumhunting technique? Why do you dismiss the fact that a pro-town player cannot act with confidence as well?


Secondly, when emogirl was making a stance to defend the Maenara wagon, your series of questions struck me as odd.

Maybe my idea of policy lynch differs from others, but lynching someone over a null read because the player is bad is considered a policy lynch in my eyes.

Maenara isn't bad. At all. And it isn't a policy lynch. I don't see what you're implying.

If she wrote a bad post, how does that make her wagon a policy lynch...

By bad, do you mean scummy or anti-town?

So you're saying they are policy lynching her for pushing a policy lynch on you? That doesn't make any sense.

I don't see what you were trying to achievement with this series of question directed at emogirl. Her intentions were clear to me at the start. Could you call the few gems that Maenara posted as good? the underlying intentions and motivations as town? No way. Therefore, can you policy lynch Maenara? Yes you can.


Thirdly, you attacked emogirl in #320 with a loaded language that is seen as spoken with haste.

You act like you have information only scum would know. For example, you seem to know that Manaera is town from a handful of posts. You're scummy as hell.

The assumption here is emogirl is scum with info only scum would know. Therefore she seems to know Maenara is town from a handful of posts. Therefore she is scum with info only scum would know. Therefore she is scummy as hell. Emogirl has stated her reasons to townread Maenara in 261.

[yessiree]

emogirl123.scumLean(); // #131, still voting Garmr while calling Aegor's attack on Garmr discrediting

Just something quick to add, my #131 attack on Aegor happened after #124 which gave me a weak town read on Garmr. I was on the said "toxic wagon" because I started the wagon. I started the wagon because I didn't like Garmr's posts and saw scum motivation behind them. By #124, I see town motivation and changed my play to find player taking advantage of the wagon.

and was Aegor one who was trying to take advantage of the Garmr wagon? read on Aegor?

[emogirl123]

I keep mixing the word alignment with the word role. I use both interchangeably by accident. I know he told people to join a wagon on you when he was not on your wagon. What does this have to do with his alignment?

Although I do agree that it is a null tell

. I have more of a problem with Bulbazak, because he posted a case that was clearly bullshit.

Aegor argued that it is scummy read of Garmr for messing up who he was voting for. I said this is a null tell on Aegor for thinking that and said Bulbazak is much worse. I might have worded this ambiguously in my quote. Since this is a null tell of Aegor for thinking that mixing up votes is a scum tell, I am perfectly fine with voting Bulbazak.

[yessiree]

k fair enough, and I guess I won't see the Bulb case until Chevre checks in, correct?

[emogirl123]

I'm lazy and going out for the whole day, so probably not.

[Zdenek]

5 pages in and emogirl and garmr both seem rather townie.

Unvote

[Albert B. Rampage]

Firstly, you calling out on emogirl being confident should result in a lynch struck me as odd.

emogirl's confidence looks like it comes from a source of information that she has exclusive access to. She shouldn't be able to tell who's town or scum with that level of certainty unless she knows their alignment because she's scum.

Secondly, when emogirl was making a stance to defend the Maenara wagon, your series of questions struck me as odd.

Maybe my idea of policy lynch differs from others, but lynching someone over a null read because the player is bad is considered a policy lynch in my eyes.

Maenara isn't bad. At all. And it isn't a policy lynch. I don't see what you're implying.

If she wrote a bad post, how does that make her wagon a policy lynch...

By bad, do you mean scummy or anti-town?

So you're saying they are policy lynching her for pushing a policy lynch on you? That doesn't make any sense.

I don't see what you were trying to achievement with this series of question directed at emogirl. Her intentions were clear to me at the start. Could you call the few gems that Maenara posted as good? the underlying intentions and motivations as town? No way. Therefore, can you policy lynch Maenara? Yes you can.

Emogirl was misrepresenting the bandwagon on Manaera as a policy lynch. It was early enough in the game that multiple players had worst content than Manaera and there's no way that it looked like a policy lynch. If emogirl wanted to defend Maenara, to advance her agenda as scum, she would try to use any random argument, whether logical or not.

Thirdly, you attacked emogirl in #320 with a loaded language that is seen as spoken with haste.

See, this is ironic, because you're attacking me with loaded language and a terrible line of questioning right now.

[yessiree]

Firstly, you calling out on emogirl being confident should result in a lynch struck me as odd.

emogirl's confidence looks like it comes from a source of information that she has exclusive access to. She shouldn't be able to tell who's town or scum with that level of certainty unless she knows their alignment because she's scum.

Examples?

Secondly, when emogirl was making a stance to defend the Maenara wagon, your series of questions struck me as odd.

Maybe my idea of policy lynch differs from others, but lynching someone over a null read because the player is bad is considered a policy lynch in my eyes.

Maenara isn't bad. At all. And it isn't a policy lynch. I don't see what you're implying.

If she wrote a bad post, how does that make her wagon a policy lynch...

By bad, do you mean scummy or anti-town?

So you're saying they are policy lynching her for pushing a policy lynch on you? That doesn't make any sense.

I don't see what you were trying to achievement with this series of question directed at emogirl. Her intentions were clear to me at the start. Could you call the few gems that Maenara posted as good? the underlying intentions and motivations as town? No way. Therefore, can you policy lynch Maenara? Yes you can.

Emogirl was misrepresenting the bandwagon on Manaera as a policy lynch. It was early enough in the game that multiple players had worst content than Manaera and there's no way that it looked like a policy lynch. If emogirl wanted to defend Maenara, to advance her agenda as scum, she would try to use any random argument, whether logical or not.

The only reason emogirl touched on Maenara out of all the other lazy wagon hoppers was because of the absolute SHIT Maenara had mustered up to produce. However, that's not the focus here. The focus here is your line of questioning emogirl contained NO purpose other than the intent to trip her up.

Thirdly, you attacked emogirl in #320 with a loaded language that is seen as spoken with haste.

See, this is ironic, because you're attacking me with loaded language and a terrible line of questioning right now.

So my attempt at ironing out my suspicions and working out the discrepancies of our opinions is a terrible line of questioning?

It's also interesting to note that this is a none-denial denial reply here. You did not deny that your line of question contained loaded language. amirite?

[Zdenek]

I'm about half way through now, add Slaandar and Bulbazak to the town list. Slaandar is the weakest of these reads.

[Bulbazak]

If emogirl flips scum, we will know bulbazak is full of shit.

You're going to have to explain this one, because me being full of crap after having been proved right doesn't make sense to me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

>Could you call the few gems that Maenara posted as good? the underlying intentions and motivations as town? No way. Therefore, can you policy lynch Maenara? Yes you can.<

This doesn't make any sense. If you think that an underlying intention is scummy, how can you then go and classify that as a policy lynch? You're voting them because you think their posts don't have a town motivation, which is the opposite of a policy lynch. You're defending emogirl using her own logic, which doesn't work, because it sounds like something she pulled out of the grass.

>Apart from this, why is lynching someone because he/she being overconfident is a good scumhunting technique?<

This question is loaded. I was voting for emogirl because she looked like she knew more than a VT would. She apparently knows that Maenara is town, based on the few posts you pointed out. I found that scummy. She shouldn't be that confident that Maenara is town, nor should she call her a policy lynch, it's contradictory and something that scum would say.

>Why do you dismiss the fact that a pro-town player cannot act with confidence as well?<

This is a blatant strawman. Do you actually want an answer?

[Zdenek]

Bulbazak, doesn't it surprise you that I'm town reading you?