Mini 1556: Greetings Without Spain (GAME OVER FAREWELL)

[pisskop]

Titus, where did the scumread on me come from?

[Titus]

Titus, where did the scumread on me come from?

I buy kthx's slip when you referred to Xay as a townie. Bleh. I'm fairly certain I am wrong on one of the two of you. My town read says you and provides a decent but not flawless slip.

[pisskop]

:/ why did you vote me just now? Out of protest?

What points did kthnx make that you think are decent?

[Xayzeck]

Wait I thought I was hammered lol

[Kthxbye]

Oh snap! Yes! No hammer! Boom! Die pk die

[Xayzeck]

Xay scum reads me because I admitted I'm not 100% certain of a day 1 lynch.

Hrm.

The rest of the reads list is trash. He doesn't have a valid scum read on a single player. This is awful.

I've put a lot of stock in to people's wording calling themselves and others townies and such in the past but I don't think it works in this situation. It only really tracks if he's saying that we're lynching a townie when specifically only talking about Xay, as if he asked people why they're trying to lynching a townie when they vote him. If he "slipped" then he admitted that he's town and has information suggesting that Xay is town, which would only be possible if they were masons (ergo, looks more like a mason slip than a scum slip) which isn't possible.

It just looks more likely that he doesn't like either lynch.

Now I'm not saying you're wrong, I've got a slight scum read on piss myself, but I don't particularly agree that what you have found is a scum slip.

Ugh reading piss's posts just feels like he doesn't understand what is going on this game. It is really frustrating. Piss, you need to actually get reads on players and develop opinions and push a lynch. Xay I don't care about because he's already caught scum.

This post he's pushing for my lynch but he's wavering between me and pkop. Still considers if I flip town even though I'm "caught scum". Giving himself breathing space because he knows I'll flip town.

[pisskop]

Xay is L-1. :/

unvote

welcome to my townlist, bro.

kthnx, I have a case out on you.

[Kthxbye]

Hahaha sorry pkop, I think it'll be a thing where I'm lynched D1 every game with you :b

But yeah I'm town. My strongest scumreads are kinda OMGUS, but I'd say ICE.

No way this is fake.

Pick up your game play xay...youre basically conf town to me now. Unless you and pk came up with this in a scum day qt, i cant read this as not genuine.

[Kthxbye]

Pk, nobody cares about your scum case. Die

[pisskop]

vote: Kthnx

Hunh? Okay.

[Titus]

:/ why did you vote me just now? Out of protest?

What points did kthnx make that you think are decent?

Out of protest? Just what would I be protesting?

I asked Kthx to explain what the slip was. He did in clear and concise terms. After today's flip, I'm going to go back and re-evaluate everyone based on where they were and what they did.


My notes have Xay at L-1. I also don't see where scum can't be genuine. When I'm scum, I'm the most genuine player in the game generally but for who we should lynch.

[Rhinox]

unvote

until morning so I can reevaluate in light of xay thinking he was hammered.

[Kthxbye]

Ok folks, 1 of 2 things just happened:

Either PK thought he was gonna hammer and end the day even though:
-PI didn't get read up and posts thoughts
-Luc says she caught up up but doesn't post anything new based on current events....just a 1 paragraph snip with a Xay vote
-Aisa never gives us more than what's in p233
-PK never came up with some original thought nor did he give us his reads list. Most we got were 2 cases and a chain of posts ending with what he thought was a hammer.
-and Kcd never came back from where ever he went to post something based on all these new things that have happened since he posted a case on me, watched the wagon on me build, then disappeared.

(^look at all the info that would benefit town if we don't end the day right this second and all the info scum could prevent by ending this day at this time instead of waiting for at least some of these things to happen.)

OOOOOORRRRRRRR

PK and Xay are both scum and came up with this little mess in a scum day QT to make Xay look confirmed.

I personally think it's the former. Either way PK is scum for it.
______________________
Next, let's look at the 2 cases. If you ask me, his post about me looks waaay more convincing to himself than what he had to say about Xay....yet he 'hammers' Xay???
______________________
Lastly, let's look at his post RIGHT BEFORE he 'hammers':

especially when letting the interactions continue provides way more valuable information.

The above is about how I feel about it.

-Your reaction to Aisa in p69 is based off of the 1st 3 pages, but you waited for someone to call you out on not producing content before you posted it.
-Your further discussion with Aisa in p75 is based off of stuff from the 1st 3 pages.
-You finally gave a reaction to my push on you page 1 in p115. You also talk about your progressing read on Xay, which has roots in the 1st 3 pages.

Aisa hasn't posted enough to really understand her, and she asked me questions about the first three pages. I responded to her.

These 2 things stand out most.

First, if PK really felt that letting interactions continue provides way more valuable information....WHY THE HELL WOULD HE 'HAMMER' WHEN WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE WITH A LACK OF INTERACTIONS?!!
Next, the very next line he says that Aisa hasn't posted enough to really understand her...If this is the case, why would town-PK want to end the day right now?!
________________________________
In summation, PK is scum and derped his 'hammer'.

Now, I'm not pushing that we quick lynch him either. He's caught scum. The above things still need to happen before we end this day. I'm saying that PK should be today's lynch. We now have seemingly 2 lynches and VC's to analyse from D1 if you buy into Xay's reaction like I do.

[Lucresia]

@ Xay - Why did you think you were hammered? You seem to have some issues here with realizing what L-X we are at. With this now being your 2nd time confused, it feels staged to me. Especially with kthx posting closely afterwards that pisskop is scum for hammering, then kthx quoting you and saying it's definitely not fake.

Possible xay & kthx scum team? Scenario:
1. Xay tries to look like he thought he was hammerred (oh well he's dead and still admits to town, he MUST be town. Confirmed town for rest of game)
2. kthx directs everyone's attention to pisskop who already has 2nd highest wagon by calling him out of what he also pretends to think was a hammer.
3. kthx quotes xay's reaction saying it can't be faked.

If we do have a xay/kthx scum team, we have a whole setup for tomorrow:

1. xay looks like confirmed town for his claim after what looked like he was dead
2. pisskop gets lynched today and shows as town.
3. mafia gets a nightkill
4. kthx can justify his vote as "pisskop looked scummy for thinking he was intentionally hammering xay (our now confirmed townie).

@ pisskop - Did you think you were hammering him when you placed your vote?

I won't cry if Xay hangs today though. If I'm wrong about PK's comment and it was just a silly mistake on PK's part, the case on Xay is solid and he's done nothing to dispute it. The only thing that gives me pause on lynching Xay is that probable slip from PK.

So if you had no problem with the xay lynch, why was pisskop immediately scum for having "possibly" hammered? This prompted me to re-read your ISO and I noticed this contradiction:

Your reasoning is a replacement hadnt posted, but back on page 3, you were already okay with a lynch (of pisskop mind you). That's quite a contradiction:

Wouldn't the "hammer" have given good info had he flipped town?

This "event" has given me a slight change of perspective on a few people. All of this brings a lot to consider, but I stand by my vote for now.

[Lucresia]

PK and Xay are both scum and came up with this little mess in a scum day QT to make Xay look confirmed.

The reason this doesn't fly imo is that pisskop was the next highest bandwagon. This means if he pretended to hammer xay, everyone would push on him and scum would still die. I don't think 2 scum would misdirect to the other scum?

[PrivateI]

All right, in the style of another game I replaced into, I will be posting various thoughts as I read this. It's 12 pages, so shouldn't be too long.

Keep in mind that I have not read the thread prior to this, and thus know nothing of players currently in the game, unless I have already played with them.

(2) A request for a replacement prior to game-start? Intriguing.

(19) D3x, I hate trying to nail scum Page 1, and an attempt of others to do it makes me sad. Let's not anymore, k?

(23) Pisskop, can you give a link please?

(27) Kthxbye, I have to agree with KCDA that you really overanalyzed the voting post here. Interesting.

(35) Aisa...don't play idiotically. Town or scum, that's just stupid, and it fails as a reaction test generally.

(37) What I would like to "discuss" about this post is that by responding to it, you force the viewer to accept your initial assertion that pisskop is scum.

(38) Ugh. I hate this for many reasons.

(45) If you insist, I'll accept it as alignment indicative. Just two pages in, I would almost call for a policy lynch of this. Just for my own notes,

VOTE: Xay

(52) Lucresia is town

(54) d3x might also be town.

(71) I don't like this one...

Well, crap. I need to do homework. More tomorrow. This should give you enough to analyze. Though I haven't seen a post from Generic yet...

[Xayzeck]

PK and Xay are both scum and came up with this little mess in a scum day QT to make Xay look confirmed.

The reason this doesn't fly imo is that pisskop was the next highest bandwagon. This means if he pretended to hammer xay, everyone would push on him and scum would still die. I don't think 2 scum would misdirect to the other scum?

Day QT? Where'd you get that idea from lol

Yeah I don't think genuineness will confirm me as town, because I'm pretty sure scum could pull something like this off, whether or not I'm scum with pkop. I just don't think I could pull this off. I'd probably WiFom the thread once I'm hammered.

vote: Xay

pm me when you want to play together again.

This quote didn't say he hammered, but when he asked me to pm him when I wanted to play again, I thought that meant that I was dead. So I thought I was hammered. I was phone posting at the time, so I didn't flip back for the last VC to count. There wasn't any VC on page 11 too, so I just figured the mod would take a while to come in and give the flip so I just said I was town(again).

Also Hi PrivateI I really wish you read ahead to maybe the more recent pages first because a couple of hours earlier and that vote would have hammered. Like I would have really gotten hammered

PK and Xay are both scum and came up with this little mess in a scum day QT to make Xay look confirmed.

The reason this doesn't fly imo is that pisskop was the next highest bandwagon. This means if he pretended to hammer xay, everyone would push on him and scum would still die. I don't think 2 scum would misdirect to the other scum?

Also this. I don't think we would coordinate ourselves so well even with a day QT(not sure how you came up with this either). But pretending to hammer, and then pretending to be hammered seems like a weak tactic. We'd both have to play it off well too, being super genuine or super convinced on hammering scum, and to be honest I don't think either of us are capable of that.

If pkop were scum and I were town, his hammer wouldn't have made sense too. With 1 week left till deadline you could have pulled a little more out of me for better associative tells for D2. He would have gotten lynched D2 for it anyway, especially since he's the next strongest scumread amongst town. I really think pkop is town.

[Rhinox]

Ok so one thing is clear. pk definitely thought he was hammering.

I'm claiming intent.

vote: Xay

pm me when you want to play together again.

What I wanna know pk is what was the point of claiming intent and then hamering 2 posts later when no one posted in between?

Claiming intent is usually done so things like role claims and what not can happen before a hammer.

The Reaction post:

Hahaha sorry pkop, I think it'll be a thing where I'm lynched D1 every game with you :b

But yeah I'm town. My strongest scumreads are kinda OMGUS, but I'd say ICE.

kthx says this can't be faked. I disagree. I won't go into all the reasons why but its not unheard of for scum to continue to act like town in twilight, and its really not all that surprising when you think about it either.

268 - I like that pk is still trying to get info out of Xay even after he has been "hammered"

Hammering while a replacement hasnt even posted...seriously?

Did you miss all the reasons for not ending the day at this moment or something?!

Youre so scum.

What I don't like about this reaction is that it is all based on the presumption that Xay is town.

273 - I agree with Titus about not liking Lucresia's 263. At least I think that's what you're saying Titus. I don't like how you just brush off the unsettling vote and end up concluding that maybe both PK and xay are scum.

PK still thinks Xay was hammered as of 277, but Xay figured out on his own he was not hammered in278.

Xay what made you realize you weren't hammered?

Same question to you Kthx, at what point did you realize Xay wasn't hammered?

288 and 289 I really like from Lucresia. 288 is pretty much 1 of the hypothetical scenarios I had swirling around in my head all night. Really having mixed feelings on her throughout D1 so far.

Well, crap. I need to do homework. More tomorrow. This should give you enough to analyze. Though I haven't seen a post from Generic yet...

Actually your post isn't really that helpful. Vague comments on old stuff without context or reference to anything but a post number is not helpful. "Ugh. I hate this for many reasons." Well, what is "this" that you hate, and what are those reasons? If we're supposed to analyze your comments then you have to actually provide something worth analyzing. If you can't be assed to quote what you're commenting on or at least link to the post (hello post tags) then I can't be assed to pretend your post provided any useful content whatsoever.

And you might want to read more than 1/4 of the game before flopping votes down based on stuff that happened on page 2. For example, you don't get to vote Xay without first giving your thoughts on what has transpired the last couple pages.

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Pisskop

Because this happened a few posts after I was hammered. If I wasn't hammered, there's no point in voting, instead I'd expect people to start asking for reads from me before the flip came. This is the thing I expect most people to do when someone is hammered. None of this happened, only from pkop.

I should also point out that in the post before that^ was:

Checking votes but planning to vote Pisskop unless I'd be hammer. Then intent to hammer. Will move to Xay at deadline if needed though.

Which also didn't make sense if I was hammered.

Oh snap! Yes! No hammer! Boom! Die pk die

Also this made it pretty obvious I wasn't hammered.

But yeah it was Titus that made me think I wasn't hammered.

[Titus]

Ummm PrivateI, your post is wierd and awkward at th end. Generic hasn't even posted....

[Thomith]

in my opinion PK's "hammer" was obviously not a hammer to me, and for that reason i really sense some fake reactions in that area.

Kind of out there theory but :

Could it be possible that kthx/PK/xay are scum together and have daytalk? They could have got PK to "hammer" then xay/kthx to be like "wtf why did you hammer" to make xay look townie? I don't know, that "hammer" and the reactions it brought looked really really fake either way.

@Titus, i didn't say if you were right you could be scum because you being one of the few (you and d3x) people at that point actually defending kthx at that point it felt really weird, which is why it felt like one or both of you could have been "whiteknighting" him as you put it.

[d3x]

Thoughts.

As said above, the Hammer was obviously not a Hammer, imo. You had Rhinox post L-2 and then someone UnVoted. When you add 2 Votes to that, there's no Lynch. Reading over it and thinking about, I actually believe that both Xay and piss thought it was a legit Hammer, though. I find it much more plausible for NewbScumpiss to derpHammer than ScumXay to play it out as he did. It pains me to say that.

UnVote

I do know that I really don't like the Intent/'Hammer' posting from piss. As Rhinox said, it was only 2 posts apart. Aside from that, less than an hour had elapsed. The reasoning for a Hammer also doesn't really sit right with me. I also

really

don't like p281.

PI's entrance to the game was

TERRIBAD

. If there were any assocaiative tells to be gained from him swinging, I'd say fuck it and push for this here and now. Also, who is Generic?

Rhinox- You and I see somethign very different from piss's p268. Xay had just posted his ReadsList on the previous page with nothing really compelling. He reinforced his lack of ScumReads in p267. If piss is Scum, I think he's trying to get Xay to push weak/incorrect Reads as fodder for Tomorrow.

I'll wait on a VC, but I'm planning on Voting piss.

[pisskop]

if PK really felt that letting interactions continue provides way more valuable information

Lynches should happen when they're ready to happen

I took this amoung other things that the day was closing. I happened to agree that we have a lot of information that will come out over any flip. Answer the case against you, and stop shoving misrepresented quotes down the Town's throat. We need rationality, not baseless yelling. Nor do we need this:

PK never came up with some original thought nor did he give us his reads list.

. I have given at least a whole case worth of content, which you choose to ignore.

Next, let's look at the 2 cases. If you ask me, his post about me looks waaay more convincing to himself than what he had to say about Xay....yet he 'hammers' Xay???

Umm, no. My case on you is quite valid. I am presenting it from my perspective.

---

@ pisskop - Did you think you were hammering him when you placed your vote?

I missed Thom's vote, or rather it didn't quite click that he unvoted Xay.

Day QT? Where'd you get that idea from lol

What I wanna know pk is what was the point of claiming intent and then hamering 2 posts later when no one posted in between?

It was mostly so everyone knew I was going to hammer him after I finished my business (3dx's questions) and could intervene if they felt the need to. Xay already claimed VT in 202, so I was trying to make sure everyone knew it was coming. I was unsure if I should have worded it as such, but I guess I know now . . .

I find it much more plausible for NewbScumpiss to derpHammer than ScumXay to play it out as he did. It pains me to say that. UnVote

What about a scenerio in which I am town trying to get flip information to strengthen my own suspicions? I already said I'm watching you. Yea, it was a derphammer, I had to talk myself into hammering him, and it was hard.

---

So, does everyone townread kthnx now? Or is anybody worried why he would just steamroll past a case on him? Post 262 and he blatantly ignores a scumcase on him? I'm not voting Xay today, again, and this makes kthnx the second viable wagon in my eyes. All we get in response to it is this:

Pk, nobody cares about your scum case. Die

?

[pisskop]

I buy kthx's slip when you referred to Xay as a townie. Bleh. I'm fairly certain I am wrong on one of the two of you. My town read says you and provides a decent but not flawless slip.

Oh, you are aware there was no slip? He's even moved away from that and started pushing even odder things, now that I've broken it down for everybody.

[Bicephalous Bob]

Piss (3): kthx, Thom, Titus
Xay (4): ICE, Aisa, Lucresia, PrivateI
Kthx (2): Kcda, pisskop

Not Voting (3): xay, Rhinox, d3x

12 alive, 7 to lynch

Please put your votes on a new line. People who use vote tags are my favorites (but don't tell the others I told you that).