Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

[Varsoon]

IF YOU VOTE FOR ME YOUR VOTE WILL BE LOCKED ON ME ALL DAY

[Varsoon]

The first vote on me every day can't be removed.
I don't want people fucking up in RVS and then having their hands tied.

[Varsoon]

Yes, really. I figure there's people who have some sort of thing that can affect it, though.

[Varsoon]

Miller claims bug me.
Doesn't that still not rule out the possibility of an SK?

[Varsoon]

The first vote on me every day can't be removed.
I don't want people fucking up in RVS and then having their hands tied.

Oh really...

P-Edit: All miller claims bug me.

Yup, bro. Your post will be colored differently and then you'll be screwed when you want to hammer some other scrub-butt.

vezokpiraka is

Reimu Hakurei

, aligned with

Town

.

Well, whatever that was, I hope people can do it a few more times. :3

[Varsoon]

Unvote

Vote: Varsoon

Unvote

Teehee~

(Also, this gives vezok no excuse to not post in the thread)

I, uh, pretty sure that still counts.

Miller claims bug me.
Doesn't that still not rule out the possibility of an SK?

Doesn't rule that out, but I don't consider that multiball~

Fair'nuff.
Just find scum, dawg.

[Varsoon]

I to(hou)ld you.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon is town.

Kagami's random miller claim

still

bugs me, but I can write her off as town.

P-Edit: GiF's vote is now stuck on me. I prefer no one else votes me unless you're

really sure

I'm scum.

Woah, we have the same deal? Well, there's a certain flavor character who doesn't get locked on me, but I don't want to out them.

VOTE: Kagami

pedit-

Wait what

Hold the phone

Feirei and Varsoon are claiming like the same ability and noone's questiioning them?

Isn't it only spell-cards that can't be duplicate?

[Varsoon]

I'm so confused.
So the vote didn't get stuck on me and GiF voted... everyone?

[Varsoon]

Varsoon, why isn't feirei's vote stuck on you?

p-edit: well, that answers it

Actually, looking over my PM, I think it's more along the lines that I'm immune to being frozen.
Gotta figure that since Feirei freezes people, Feirei is also immune to being frozen.

[Varsoon]

@Pie: Who do I trust?

[Varsoon]

will it confirm me as town?

coz you're gonna have to figure me out from day play and day cards in this game

Why are you concerned with being conf-town?
Doesn't matter how you're perceived.
All that matters is catching scum.

[Varsoon]

Same.
Full Massclaim only enables scum, Imo.

[Varsoon]

I know it doesn't have anything to do with the game, but:
What should I order for food?

On game-related note, Borky, I see you not liking things.
Why?

[Varsoon]

I also don't buy into the varsoon-town yet

Was it the food-tell?
'cus sometimes a brotha is just hungry.


@Bork: I want to know why you don't like things.
It's easy to cross one's arms, but I wanna hear some elaboration.

[Varsoon]

O, then I'll help out. I'm basically 95% sure you are correct. Varsoon is scum.

I'm 100% sure I'm not. Looks like that'll be proven tomorrow.
Don't anyway go wasting protection on me. If I die, I don't care. Use your protects on Sakura.

I can use it everyday anyway, it's not a spellcard. The downside is i wont know his alignment until tomorrow. <- This is why im more than likely to die during the night.

Town's probably got a protective role. They can just shield you tonight.

Ah jesus christ if i dont do this im gonna be paranoid all game, imma trust GiF's townread on muffin for the time being and clear this pile of WIFOM out

Miracle Mallet - Alignment Investigate: Varsoon

I could have just told you I was town.

I want to know what we're doing with varsoon. If I vote him I get stuck.

I'm basically certain he's scum, but now that sakura has done her thing, I imagine people will want to wait for tomorrow. =\

I don't know, maybe you can try hunting some scum?
I'm town, but since I guess you can't trust that, I suggest you do work in looking for scum since there's definitely more than 1 anyway.

i just realised the irony of guyinfreezer having two votes frozen

<3
I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

[Varsoon]

Then you'd be stronger for it.
It's not so much about trust, but deductive reasoning, inquiry, and communication that scaffolds into results.

Kagami, what makes me scum?

[Varsoon]

It's all good in the hood.
I'm wondering why GiF has amassed 4 votes.
I don't think that scum would be so quick to bust out a multi-vote and a day-card.
Especially a conniver like GiF.


P-EDIT:
I used to ask people to buy me pizza in like every game. People would always over-analyze it. At one point, Cabd thought 'Buy Pizza' was a crumb for BP. At another, someone accused me of using a 'food-tell' that's scum-indicative. Since I mentioned wanting food earlier, I figured maybe people were playing into that larger joke.

I actually didn't see the Daycop until 248, where I addressed it. P-EDIT didn't do anything for me, I think I was just slamming submit and alt-tabbin'.

[Varsoon]

Jesus, P-EDIT hates me.
I don't know why GiF still has votes.
zMuffin, can you articulate your shift to Raging Bull? I think I get it, but I want to know it.

[Varsoon]

coz i think he's scum

What makes him scum?

(And yeah, I do make a differentiation between voting someone for a reaction/test/whatever and voting scum-reads, so this sort of answer isn't horrible. It just isn't articulate.)

[Varsoon]

<3 Sakura.
Thanks for clearing me, I guess. Still, I wish your ability caught someone instead.

[Varsoon]

I'm thinking the spell-card plays into his multi-vote ability.
Like, certain people he's voting can't target other ones or something.

[Varsoon]

Hey, Vezo.
Sorry you're not Cirno, but at least you're an IC?
You holding to your vote on Notsci?

[Varsoon]

I don't get where GIF is getting his bork-obvtown read, I don't see anything really great coming from bork yet

I've got to assume there's a QT for pretty much every imaginable pair like there was last time.

[Varsoon]

Fake God Upick with no QTs.
Coming never.

[Varsoon]

Double voter full game. If i hammer, i get triple vote next day. if i hammer, i get quad vote next day. if i hammer, get infinity vote but then i die once that day ends.

that's fucking hilarious

I'm laughing forever.


Doubt this is scum, but it could be, I'm just scared of how much swing it could provide no matter what.
Like, "Whoops, voted the wrong person."


Don't know what to make of stuff.
Every time I see something happening I'm like, "Yeah! Yeah I can comment on that!" and then Pie or zMuffin or GiF does.

[Varsoon]

I want a race claim, but no one wants to give it to me.
Also, this still amuses me.

Why do you want a race claim?
What's the town motivation for that?

[Varsoon]

Flavour Claims will only lead to Role Claims.

So I'd rather not

I think the most important thing, even though this is role madness crazy absurdity, is to actually play the core game.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, it's not great, but it's not an issue either.
It just is.

[Varsoon]

Instead of complaining about it, let's get down to business and figure out the people we do have here with us.

[Varsoon]

Trying a different approach for larger games, especially ones with lots of swing.
I'm also tired of losing and of having players who get carried away, so I really want this.

[Varsoon]

Oh right. I forgot about the suicide element on RB's claim.
Yeah that makes him town too.

Town:

SXTLHGaiden
Sakura Hana
zMuffinMan
notscience
thenewearth
borkjerfkin
vezokpiraka
GuyInFreezer
Kagami
Raging Bull

Leftovers:
pieguyn
Hanasawa
One of {Feirei/Varsoon}
Bitmap

Assume you mean this list?

Normally I would put pieguy as town at this point but this time I don't wanna because he was whining at me all day yesterday just to get me to answer those lame questions that are all alignment-neutral aspect of my play.

I attribute the frustrated questioning aspects to Pieguy's towngame. It feels genuine, like he really wants you to respond and is getting upset when you don't.

[Varsoon]

Who GiF is reading as town:

SXTLHGaiden - I don't like Gaiden that much in this game, actually. Insistence on claims, backseat play, and general aimlessness aren't sitting well with me. Explain this read.
Sakura Hana - Wasn't sure what to think, but I'm pretty sure that Sakura's town after the Miracle Hammer and interactions. If that was faked (IE: Hammer does investigate, but Sakura is scum), then Sakura's throwing down insane-strong scum game that's several levels deep. I'm pretty sure this is just town Sakura.
zMuffinMan - Muffin man always tricks me. I'm reserving my damn judgment on this one, and I assume you're only town-reading him for reactions. If not, explain this read.
notscience - I'm sketch on this one too. Don't like the votes on GiF and RB. Don't like rationale. Don't like NS trying to keep everyone scum-read and promoting WIFOM. It all bugs me. Why is this town? Do you know something I don't know?
thenewearth - Town a hundred times town town forever the new earth town earth town w w w dot thenewearth is town dot com.
borkjerfkin - Bork's a dork. Interaction looks sly and genuine and smart, though. I'm town-reading this, too.
vezokpiraka - Conf.Town.
GuyInFreezer - You're a fucking slippery one. I don't know what your card does/have good interaction to deduce it, so I don't trust it like I do Sakura's. You asking me to comment on your reads list feels awkward to me. If you're scum, you're not scum for your abilities or your role. You're scum because of your play. I want to explore that more than anything.
Kagami - Miller claim makes me feel weird but the play checks out and I've got Kagami as a heavy town-lean, myself. Assumably, you know more about Kagami than me/us.
Raging Bull - I think this is town. Scum could too easily abuse the power and has no reason to claim it like that aside from trying to be insufferably town, which doesn't mesh with the rest of the play coming from this slot.

Leftovers:
pieguyn - Pie's town. Don't know how you could read him as scum in this game. Why aren't you sure on this one.
Hanasawa - I'm also super sketch about Hanasawa. Figure I'll just wait for the slot to come in-game again.
One of {Feirei/Varsoon} - Y'know, why can't we both be town? We've got a neighborhood together, actually. We've got abilities we're both immune to. I'm town. Feirei feels pretty damn town, too.
Bitmap - Absolute blank on this one. Do you know how to get Bitmap to interact/produce alignment-reflective content? 'cus I sure don't.

[Varsoon]

Muffin man always tricks me

where is this coming from?

because i think i've only played against you as scum twice (well, three times if you include 519 where we were both scum and killed each other N1) and in both the games you've been town against me you've been, at the very least, mildly suspicious of me. even in gif's touhou game, you claimed you knew i was manipulating you, so i dunno if that even counts as tricking you.

i could see other players who've actually been bitten by me before playing the paranoia card, but coming from you it's strange

It's your avatar, man.

[Varsoon]

@GiF: Sakura's interaction post-spell card, especially in quick response to when people questioned it/it was discussed. Also, that moment of lamenting using the card on me really hits home.

[Varsoon]

Doesn't everyone, though?

[Varsoon]

I don't pull gambits without a failsafe.

tucking this info away 5ever

[Varsoon]

You shouldve known that since your first game

It's one of those things I figured (you're slippery) but having Word of God on it gives me a point of referral rather than just evidenced moments.


What do you think of RB's wagon?

[Varsoon]

@NS: Yeah, was hoping that'd give a little insight on the overlap/immunities we seem to have.
Explain why GiF is scum?

@Gaiden: Any reason for that vote there?

[Varsoon]

Feirei's solid in my book. I assume we're neighbors and not masons 'cus that'd be TOO STRONK or something.

[Varsoon]

Gaiden
Notsci
Bitmap


Dunno how you could scum-read Pie. The dude's name is Pieguy. nnnnnn

[Varsoon]

<3

You'll know I'm town tomorrow. I'll either be gone after night or I'll be here in the morning with a cop-confirm.

[Varsoon]

All my town reads are on the RB wagon
But I don't know why RB is at L-2.
D:

[Varsoon]

At least I'm not Tewi.

[Varsoon]

I feel like we should be attempting to confirm RB (if possible) rather than lynching him. A potential town RB becomes a liability for scum late in the game that they will be forced to NK.

If that fails he can be a policy lynch the day prior to lylo, but I see a fair bit of 'RB's role is likely a scum role/too powerful if he's scum' which on D1 in a role madness game should be at odds with the fact that there are tons of mitigating factors that you can't possibly know about yet.

This is valid.

Version are you letty

If you mean Varsoon, then no.

I'm not Letty. Lol @ that auto-correct every damn time.


I don't like the unvote from Gaiden.
VOTE: Raging Bull

[Varsoon]

I think pressure on the slot is unnecessary, plus I wanted to see what Gaiden's response was.
I was expecting more venom from a scum-Gaiden.
Hm.

UNVOTE:

[Varsoon]

EBWOP: *removal of pressure on the RB slot was unnecessary*

[Varsoon]

lol.
does gaiden ever have venom?

More than the doink/clueless response I got.

[Varsoon]

Pretty much. Would've left it there to see how RB reacted, but zMuffin deflated that plan.

[Varsoon]

Why do you think removal of pressure on RB was unnecessary?

Don't think we've really pinned RB's alignment in a way that's transparent for the entire playerbase.
Wasn't satisfied with GiF and RB interaction in regards to flavor or whatever.
All that noise.

[Varsoon]

ok so I don't really see how RB is scum.

And I don't even get how the wagon started.

Can someone please explain?

RB claimed weird double vote interaction, it was a bit unclear
RB then claimed that if RB hammers people, RB gets more votes every day
People freaked out for some reason
People didn't like RB's reaction to them freaking out

I think that's pretty much it. I don't get it either, but I want a better handle on RB anyway.

[Varsoon]

What I didnt like about RB was constantly pressuring GiF into more stuff about his spellcard when the mod already had confirmed that there were no spellcard errors, and then him blaming me for Gaiden's vote.

Yeah, this too.
There was also that moment where RB was going to use flavor claim to prove GiF's claim or something

[Varsoon]

Actually, if we wanted to confirm GiF's flavor knowledge (it's pretty evident), I can be mod-confirmed for flavor.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Bitmap

Please get in the game and provide some thoughts on things:
How do you feel about the swell and fall of the RB wagon?
What are your thoughts on GiF?
Thoughts about your wagon? Do you perceive scum on it? If so, who?

[Varsoon]

Either Gaiden or Notsci.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Gaiden

It's okay, bork.
I'm apparently equally bad at reading NS.

[Varsoon]

@Muffin: Can't handle a chilled Varsoon?

[Varsoon]

i'll just press on Gaiden again for now i guess

Vote: Gaiden

I feel like Gaiden's been going under the radar a lot.

[Varsoon]

Prodded Varsoon.

Ouch.
Feirei's town.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, Feirei shouldn't be today's lynch regardless.
However, Feirei is town, so don't lynch/vig.

[Varsoon]

Seems like RB's either going to have to be put on a leash or lynched, though.
Information lynch if nothing else.
I think it's town, but town doesn't seem to think so.

[Varsoon]

Notsci, just take my word for it.
:/

[Varsoon]

@NS: It's easy to trust me. I'll be confirmed tomorrow.

[Varsoon]

Vote: Raging Bull

First off you townread almost everyone on your wagon, now you're pushing me for bullshit reasons? You have to go.

Gonna have to sheep it.
VOTE: Raging Bull

[Varsoon]

I'm voting you because I want to put pressure on you to engage with Feirei rather than writing Fei off as lurk-scum.
Especially since I've already vouched for Fei-town.
:l

[Varsoon]

@sakura, id like a feirei scan also if you will. Still like muffin scan too though.

Don't waste your time with a FeiRei scan.
FeiRei is town.

[Varsoon]

UNVOTE:
No use to keep the vote there now that Fei is gone and doing nothing with it.
VOTE: Bitmap
Back Back Forward Punch

[Varsoon]

Do it.

[Varsoon]

Ugh, apparently a laidback, call-it-as-it-comes, no fervor approach does not work for me.
I keep getting scum-read for doing nothing, when the things I do just lack the gravity, noise, and broad strokes that they did in previous games of mine.

[Varsoon]

@Kagami: Yeah, that's what I figured. Some players don't see it that way, though. I'm really trying to get a handle on how to approach larger games.

@Victor: Welcome to the game. We're also in a neighborhood together, so I'd suggest you check that out.

[Varsoon]

I'll post tonight.

Crickets.

[Varsoon]

It's k, bork.
You're doing strong.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: TNE
I'm going to ride on this one if only for the vote on my partner.

[Varsoon]

Yeah but Bitmap's isn't reliable and yours has to wait a day.
Both are gated.
/shrug
One is likely scum, though?
I've made the argument (as scum) in defense of multiple protective roles before. I'd think multiple investigates is more of a stretch.

[Varsoon]

Mine specifies that mine comes as some sort of wish that I make upon the mallet. Both our claims seems decent enough, but yours still make me feel uneasy for some reason =/
It was specified in your role PM that you don't know your sanity? or was just your spellcard that mentioned anything about sanity.

Spellcard is sane.

Dowsing rods are either insane or sane. I was thinking of using my spellcard on some big figure tonight and tomorrow, use the dowsing rods on Kagami (miller) to verify my sanity.

Using a rod on Kagami is a good idea.
Telegraphing it in-thread was not.

[Varsoon]

Aw, Pie, sorry that I'm not impressing you.
The trick is to let scum catch themselves. We've got claims and reactions to PoE.
I've given my input.

[Varsoon]

Then pay attention or open my ISO.

[Varsoon]

I figured that my responses and votes would speak for themselves.
Not so concerned with having a big, artificial reads-list.

[Varsoon]

In that case, I'm fucked.
The reality is that I'm not, though. So flinging suspicion on me just feels like you're trying to draw a mislynch on soon-to-be-conf-town.
My suspicions stand. A few days difference hasn't made me less suspicious of the people I've voted unless stated otherwise.
For instance, RB's town and I'm not putting votes there.

[Varsoon]

Hey, as it turns out, discussing my alignment is moot because we'll know it tomorrow.
So you drop the masturbation of calling me scum.

[Varsoon]

RB's claim, votes, and frustrated play versus the amount of people who hopped on the RB wagon make me read RB as town. For a moment, I felt RB's claim was scum trying to seem town by doing something heavily town with that sort of claim and play, but I decided against that.

You should be direct with questions towards me, though. I'll answer direct questions.

[Varsoon]

thenewearth - Town a hundred times town town forever the new earth town earth town w w w dot thenewearth is town dot com

what changed?

I trust Victor, GiF, and Pie.
I haven't sunk into anyone yet. So, I'll lend my strength to folks that I trust. I'm interested in the pressure they're putting down and what it might result in.
Is it bad to sheep your town-reads?

[Varsoon]

What's the point?
Please, be direct rather than just insulting.

[Varsoon]

Jesus christ, I'm town.

[Varsoon]

All of you should apologize tomorrow when I'm confirmed.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon feel free to explain to your neighbor why it's a bad idea to poke the sleeping bear that is ns-town

ty

Town - nk immune MOE syndrome patient
scum - nk immune whiny coward lurker

am I doing it rite

Teehee.
NS Town makes a lot of noise when poked.
But this abrasiveness is hard to read.
I don't know if I've ever thought NS's posts are sincere.
So it makes me feel awkward every time I town read him.

[Varsoon]

Can we a summation of what cards were used and what claims were made?

[Varsoon]

@GiF: In case I die (likely chance tonight), you could drop some of my flavor info and see if it matches up.

[Varsoon]

You guys are so sweet.
Because I'm fairly certain you're guaranteed protection, but I'm not.

[Varsoon]

Not liking RB's latest posts, he's blaming Gaiden for deadline hammering which is what.... anyone would do to avoid a no lynch?
Also Varsoon is town.

I think NS is scum, don't like the 1 v 1 proposal against GiF while flinging accusations at other players.
GiF's dodge to freeze a vote on me as well as the mislead with cards makes me super sketch there.
Gaiden's frustrating, but I don't know to what end. :l
Sorry that I made it to today.
Since GiF brought it up, I guess the cat is out of the bag

I'm the STRONGEST[/v]

I'm here if people need to chat.
Slight headache.
I can put in work now that dolts won't WIFOM it.

[Varsoon]

Well, I messed up those tags.

I'm the STRONGEST

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Notscience
This is a place to start.
Why is a vote for anyone but you or GiF a scum-claim?
What ~reasons~ make you think I'm godfather?
I'm not a PGO or any reflexive/kill role.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon - how sure are you that Vic is town? (this isn't a leading question, I just want an answer.)

90%. He's been genuine in our QT, shared role information that he wouldn't share if he was scum, and we have role synergy that wouldn't make much sense across the alignment divide.

I'm sticking with my vote on NS. I feel like the pie/NS case (reeks of pie in 1626) is pushing too hard on setup spec and presenting GiF as slippery. It's a big wall, but it feels conf-biased and too willing to hit unreliable notes that'll ring well with this town's meta with GiF and Notsci.

GiF, are you still able to vote for multiple players, or is your only vote locked on me at the moment?

[Varsoon]

Also, as far as I know, GiF's cards and abilities are more helpful to town if he's town than they are a detriment to town if he's scum.

[Varsoon]

Thanks for answering that question.

@GiF: Do you still suspect RB? If so, why?
What are your votes indicative of, if anything?

[Varsoon]

VoteCount?

[Varsoon]

90%. He's been genuine in our QT, shared role information that he wouldn't share if he was scum, and we have role synergy that wouldn't make much sense across the alignment divide

did this happen pregame or N1? who initiated this?

I'm sticking with my vote on NS. I feel like the pie/NS case (reeks of pie in 1626) is pushing

too hard on setup spec

and presenting GiF as slippery. It's a big wall, but it feels

conf-biased

and

too willing to hit unreliable notes that'll ring well with this town's meta with GiF and Notsci

.

. . . . .

you think notscience is scummy because he's pushing/agrees with a case pieguy wrote?

D1, I hard-read my neighbor as town despite Feirei not talking in our QT at all pregame.
N1, Victor and I had a pretty good back and forth about our reads, abilities, the game state, etc.
I initiated.

I think NS is scummy because of the bolded in the quote made. His push relies too much on setup spec, unreliable levels of PoE, meta-posturing, and presenting a dead-townie's case as something infallible. Like dead townies can't be wrong, or like his case is somehow more true/important now that he's a dead/confirmed townie. If it's down to a 1v1, then I'd rather go with NS over GiF.

[Varsoon]

That last post gives me townfeels

<.>

Why?
The card wasn't claimed, and now that one card is revealed to have stayed, who knows what info is reliable?

[Varsoon]

Ok, time to come clean.
I have a spellcard left. They just nuked the rest of them.

Who is they?
What did your other spellcards do? Or does keeping them hidden help town out now that they're gone?
I don't think I can trust you. :s

[Varsoon]

Scum stole your card?
How?

[Varsoon]

Like, can you please share the sort of notification you got that let you know your card was stolen/nuked/whatever?

[Varsoon]

sarcasm?

No

I hadn't claimed the fact it destroyed all cards but one yet

I was going to see what he did, if he admitted he had one card left. If he kept it hidden, he was scum hiding a trump card.

And now you crippled cop power for town.
Why did you choose Gaiden?

[Varsoon]

Also, GiF, I just picked up what you're doing with me.
I'm glad you're town this time.

[Varsoon]

Before 1547 entered I was certain I was on a roll

So

and, excuse me varsoon? Who the fuck are you to try and tell me how to use my cards.

He was chosen because he has a scum role pm, no other reason.

Would you rather have lost yours?

Would you rather GIF have lost his?

I'm actually more interested in

why

Gaiden?

[Varsoon]

Ns still scum. Why would you destroy all spellcards of someone you aren't sure is scum and also claimed a rolecop?

Don't suffocate the IC with a non-answer, NS.

[Varsoon]

So, GiF, how are you reading NotScience's insistence in the light of the info you've provided?

[Varsoon]

Busy weekend prod dodge.
People, please explain your cards.

[Varsoon]

So it sounds like you have no problem with pim-slot or axxle-slot or gaiden?

Because scum was never in the active pool of players.

[Varsoon]

I'm sorry for my relative inactivity, guys.
I am a shit's shit.

[Varsoon]

Looking for GIF's replacement.

WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?

[Varsoon]

Nacho,
1v1 me, n00b

[Varsoon]

Also, welcome to the game, other guy I do not know.

[Varsoon]

Okay, the amount of inactivity is silly.
Someone, please come into this thread and let's have some discussion.
I'm here. Surely, someone wants to ask me stuff?

[Varsoon]

Both Victor and I can freeze people's votes on us.
I only freeze the first vote of the day, Victor appears to freeze all votes put on him.
GiF can vote for multiple people, and has been freezing votes on us since the start of the game.

Victor and I are also in a neighborhood together. While not confirmed, I'm pretty damn sure Victor is town based on interaction with him and Feirei (the slot he replaced).

[Varsoon]

To be clear about that:
If your vote is frozen on one of us, you can not change it.
So yeah.

[Varsoon]

"can" freeze or "must" freeze? (ie did you choose to freeze GiF's vote on you?)

Why are you voting notscience?

Must freeze. It's a passive ability.
I already used a spellcard that allowed me to confirm my flavor as Cirno, the Ice Witch.


I'm voting notscience because he's scum.
His 1v1 against GiF feels scum-sided and relies a lot on faulty information and exploitative meta.
To use his own logic against him, though, I don't think there'd be two neighborhoods that were completely town, and I have a lot more confidence that Victor is town over him.

[Varsoon]

I must freeze the first vote made against me.
Victor must freeze every vote made against him.

[Varsoon]

That's exactly what I'm trying to warn you against.
"Gaiz its my town meta"
and
"Look, it's GiF's scum meta"
are both flimsy arguments.

[Varsoon]

That way of thinking enables Notscience to beat you in games.
Everyone is capable of everything, Sakura. This doesn't mean to be paranoid or over-think, but that if you look at someone's play, you don't have to inhibit that judgment.

[Varsoon]

The key phrase is 'so far'.
This works until he tricks you with it.
How do you know he's not tricking you with it now?
Ergo, it's not a reliable piece of information unless it's an absolute trust-tell.

[Varsoon]

Well, that's on you, I suppose.
I don't buy into it completely. I think NotSci is scum, but not because of that.
It's just awkward that they claimed Masons (iirc) when I'm just 'neighbor' status with Victor.

[Varsoon]

So he could emulate that part of his town meta consciously but not what other bits?

[Varsoon]

I mean that he's doing something he did in a previous game--claiming masons.
In the previous game he was VT.
So doesn't that make you think that he's claiming masons here to make you believe he's town, like he was in the other game?
Why would someone want to use meta-reliant play to convince people that they are town?

This is what I was talking about before. There's cognitive use of and discussion of meta coming from Notscience that positions him as town and GiF as scum in ways that would be most effective against this playerbase.
That's scummy to me.

Let's drop NS for now, though. What are your scum-picks?

[Varsoon]

There's a difference of agency.
Notsci didn't start talking about being neighbors/mason'd with pie until AFTER pie died and some people were suspecting him/he wanted to make a case.
At that point, I took his 1612 to be a masons crumb/claim.
Since then he's been hard-balling his case and saying it's legit by using Pie's dead-town status to give authority to his claims.
I just don't buy it. :/

[Varsoon]

What sorts of questions could you think of for Victor and Magua to get them invested and posting and transparent about their alignments?
Right now the only reason I see to suspect them is lack of activity from both slots in general, along with empty sorts of votes.
That's not really alignment-indicative, imo.
It's just shitty.

[Varsoon]

I thought he said that pie crumbed it.
D:

[Varsoon]

Like, that they were hated masons with a neighborhood and it should have been obvious from them strong-towning each other and a pie crumb.

[Varsoon]

Oh. I'm kinda crumb-retarded.
So you think Scum would have an ability more like GiF's?

[Varsoon]

Because the 'townie' thing to do would be to claim hated early.
:l

[Varsoon]

And, I figure that scum does 'townie' things so they don't get pinned as scum.
So it's null as either alignment.
That's why claims are dumb.

[Varsoon]

@Muffin: T_T You're such a meanie. I don't think my points are awful. Why are you so quick to dismiss my thinking?

@Pim: Don't forget to post those reasons.
Feirei and I claimed vote freezing at the very start of D1. iirc, Notsci didn't claim hated until D2, after Pie's death, to link him to the dead-town Pie.
Why does no one else worry about that? Like, literally all of Notsci's town posturing relies on a dead-town Pie?

@Magua: NS tried to force out a 1v1, then GiF made himself unlynchable, apparently. Also, it feels like everyone but me thinks NS is town, so I guess we've shift gears. :l

@Sakura: I guess I see what your'e saying, but I just can't rely on meta in that way. It's too exploitable.

[Varsoon]

But I'm arguing that his play here, independent of other games, is scummy.
Catching scum is, yeah, a bit of a shot in the dark. Going randomly, you've only got a 1/3 or 1/4 chance of hitting scum most the time. You inform yourself by what's been posted in the thread and speculating on it.
I think, from what's in this thread alone, meta completely aside, that Notsci is scum.
That's why I'm voting him.

[Varsoon]

Yes.

[Varsoon]

I hate that every town game I get into, people convince everyone I'm not worth listening to.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon, I think you're worth listening to!

Yattai~
Wanna discuss this game?


@Muffin: It's okay if I'm beyond your scope.

[Varsoon]

Sakura: You keep saying you would shoot someone (mostly me, ), but can you actually do that? Like, is that an actual, literal thing you can do?
Also, plans for your copping ability? I assume this time you're not going to telegraph it unless you absolutely have to. I forgot how the daycard worked. :p

[Varsoon]

Like, did you claim vig and I never saw it?

[Varsoon]

I wonder why people are still voting for GiF.

[Varsoon]

Then why not unvote?
It's a role-madness game, there could be some crazy card that shifts all the votes to one player or something.
You don't know.

[Varsoon]

I meant something like a vote re-arranger.
On the real, though, keeping a vote parked for placeholder instead of just unvoting? Doesn't make sense.
Let your vote represent your thoughts.
Do you still think GiF is scum?

[Varsoon]

But can't he recycle cards?

[Varsoon]

Fine, don't listen to Varsoon, whatever.

Spoiler:

Victor and I are also in a neighborhood together. While not confirmed, I'm pretty damn sure Victor is town based on interaction with him and Feirei (the slot he replaced).

90%. He's been genuine in our QT, shared role information that he wouldn't share if he was scum, and we have role synergy that wouldn't make much sense across the alignment divide

did this happen pregame or N1? who initiated this?

I'm sticking with my vote on NS. I feel like the pie/NS case (reeks of pie in 1626) is pushing

too hard on setup spec

and presenting GiF as slippery. It's a big wall, but it feels

conf-biased

and

too willing to hit unreliable notes that'll ring well with this town's meta with GiF and Notsci

.

. . . . .

you think notscience is scummy because he's pushing/agrees with a case pieguy wrote?

D1, I hard-read my neighbor as town despite Feirei not talking in our QT at all pregame.
N1, Victor and I had a pretty good back and forth about our reads, abilities, the game state, etc.
I initiated.

I think NS is scummy because of the bolded in the quote made. His push relies too much on setup spec, unreliable levels of PoE, meta-posturing, and presenting a dead-townie's case as something infallible. Like dead townies can't be wrong, or like his case is somehow more true/important now that he's a dead/confirmed townie. If it's down to a 1v1, then I'd rather go with NS over GiF.

@sakura, id like a feirei scan also if you will. Still like muffin scan too though.

Don't waste your time with a FeiRei scan.
FeiRei is town.

Yeah, Feirei shouldn't be today's lynch regardless.
However, Feirei is town, so don't lynch/vig.

Prodded Varsoon.

Ouch.
Feirei's town.

One of {Feirei/Varsoon} - Y'know, why can't we both be town? We've got a neighborhood together, actually. We've got abilities we're both immune to. I'm town. Feirei feels pretty damn town, too.

[Varsoon]

At the very least, now I know you weren't responsible for either of the deaths last night. :l

[Varsoon]

Sorry, man. I tried to keep you in this.
Now you're in a good position though. Share your reads, push your cases, get active! You could help us win this.
Remember: You're not dead yet.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, but people are more likely to respond if you put things down for them for when they get here.

[Varsoon]

Heheh, guess it's time to break the ice.

[Varsoon]

The 1v1 is just notscience being notscience (Tho i've never ever seen notscience engage in a 1v1 as scum)

And you've never seen me link this image as scum, either:

Spoiler:

GUESS THAT MAKES ME TOWN REGARDLESS OF EVERYTHING ELSE IN THIS GAME, HUH?


I'm really starting to get sick of how people bring up legitimate points against Notsci and you duck in to chainsaw him with this 'but its his town meta' every time.
I'd really like to see Mala try to address all the points Victor's brought up.

[Varsoon]

I guess that the Notsci slot just gets absolved of all its bullshit because of a replace-out, then?
How very incredibly, hand-wringly convenient that is.
I guess from now on when I make mistakes, I'll just replace out to clean-slate my slot. It's apparently the best way to play to wincon as any alignment!

[Varsoon]

Obviously, so they've got to do the next best thing by kick-starting a Pim wagon for....

Why are people voting Pim?

[Varsoon]

I miss Andy, too.
I've got to wonder why I keep signing up for role madness games when the thing that drives me most up the wall is people trusting claims over reads.


@Mala: Why vote PIM for activity? There's better candidates in the active pool. What about Pim's inactivity strikes you as scum?

[Varsoon]

Like, how do we even know GiF is unlynchable at this point besides him saying that?
Like, if I dropped a card and said it made me unlynchable, would you all just drop cases and believe it even if you were scum-reading me?
Ugh, this game.

[Varsoon]

Gaiden.

[Varsoon]

Does lack of town motivation mean someone's not town?
I wasn't really motivated for a good bit of this game.
I'm still not full-steam.

[Varsoon]

Oh, was speaking towards Pim. I think he's town because I was heavily town reading RB, and if I was in his position, I'd be a bit out of steam, too.
I think that the RB wagon that happened was scum-motivated, but I don't know where to check that out.

I dunno about Axxle. Suppose there's the same lack of motivation, although I'm gathering there's a lot more replacement-exhaustion there than the other.

It's hard to keep up with people in this game who aren't vocal, though, so you might be onto something. Like, I forgot Kagami existed for a moment, and that bothers me.

[Varsoon]

The raging bull wagon, at L-1, by the way:
GuyInFreezer, Feirei, zMuffinMan, notscience, pieguyn, SXTLHGaiden, vezokpiraka

[Varsoon]

I'd imagine there's a way to interfere with Sakura's telegraphed cop ability (outside of, y'know, killing Sakura).
Also, Miller would make sense in a rolecop/cop heavy setup.

Spoiler Alert: I'm the only person who can enable a GiF lynch but I already blew my chance today.

[Varsoon]

Well, I say the only one, but I've got to figure not everyone else has full-claimed, but with the clamor for a GiF lynch, it seems like something that would've come up.
But yeah.
So, I guess the proper wording is
I'm likely the only person who could enable a GiF Lynch.

[Varsoon]

Sakura, unless you're pulling one of the most insane gambits known to man, I'm fairly certain you're town.
I don't have any intention to hinder your abilities.
Next time, though, don't shoot my neighbor before talking to me about it for a hot minute.

[Varsoon]

If Victor's scum, then who are his allies?

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

Just comb your ISO and quote the parts that are there, if they really are.

[Varsoon]

Not a fan of the Pim wagon.
Where is Pim, even?
Feels like kicking a dude while he's not here to put his dukes up.

[Varsoon]

Perfect scum target.
Town flip gives shit for info.
Everyone's blameless in the lynch.
Pim had no presence and therefore no insight can be had, nor any pim-sided defense of the wagon.
It's too good.

[Varsoon]

If Pim gives info on lynch because of RB interaction, then Mala's still a better wagon because of NS interaction.

What sort of scum would lurk so hard?
Impossible.

[Varsoon]

can i sig that last part when he flips scum?

VOTE: Pim
What happens if you're wrong?

[Varsoon]

Victor, you seem to be around.
Can I get a big ol' readslist off of you with a sentence or so detailing each read?
I think drilling Sakura for a case is a good idea, too, so keep at it.
It'll be especially telling if this isn't a vig shot at all.

[Varsoon]

UNVOTE:
Ugh, you're no fun.

[Varsoon]

UNVOTE:
Ugh, you're no fun.

what were you expecting here? im not going to bet my life on him being scum, if that's what you're disappointed about. i think he's very likely scum but im not arrogant enough to do something stupid like that

given there's a little over a day to the deadline, what exactly do you want to do here?

I wanted to see your conviction to the wagon, what your response would be (in regards to my vote, if you'd monger for a hammer or shift a point against me in-the-moment response), etc.
You're so midline. What can I make of that but hands-in-pockets carefree play? I wanted to arrest you, but your wrists are nowhere to be found.

And let's face facts, the scum case on ns is far better than any towncase you made and deep down I think you know it.

Not really, because knowing it's notscience's town

meta outweighs

pretty much all your

points

.

Meta is artifice, used by weak players to make weak points and manipulated by strong players to trick weaker ones. It's a crutch and javelin. It is not a reliable guidebook.
Break the cycle. Defend Notscience's play from an objective point.

[Varsoon]

Speaking of handwaves, the insistence on meta is just as much a 'wax on' as my refusal to accept it is a 'wax off'.
Stop dancing like a fairy and sweep the legs.

[Varsoon]

I can't possibly see the town motivation in springing a double-vote enabling spellcard to vote self.
It's the sort of play I would make,
what the fuck.

[Varsoon]

I'm waiting eagerly for the Votecount.


Also, Sakura, can you explain in detail how your vigilante ability works?
I guess what I mean is;
Fullclaim?

[Varsoon]

If there's anything saving you from my unbridled fury, it's the capacity of what your Full Claim could do.

[Varsoon]

I am playing for town.
Victor is town.
Pim is town.
I've been defending them pretty damn adamantly.

[Varsoon]

I'm back after a long weekend.
Victor's card killed our QT.
With the flips, I'm back to square one.

[Varsoon]

This is what I understand.
VOTE: Kagami

If you think Victor's scum, why aren't you voting for him?
I think you're fishing too hard for bites.

[Varsoon]

So what?
If you believe he's scum, wouldn't you want your vote there anyway?

[Varsoon]

I'm not sure of anything anymore.
UNVOTE:

Kagami, wagon analysis has fueled mislynches for me in this game already. I'm not so keen on doing it, especially when prompted by people I'm not so keen on.

[Varsoon]

There have consistently been multiple kills.
Are we sure there's an SK and it's not just a vig or something?

Also, if we're at 4v3v1 right now, then town can't majority lynch by itself.

[Varsoon]

So, Kagami's miller claim and insistence on there not being a third party early game looks weird to no one other than me, right?

[Varsoon]

Yeah, that's super awkward.
You brought up the idea of an SK
before double kills happened
and now double kills are consistent
and you're like, "Hey, what about that"

[Varsoon]

No, that's what I'm saying--why are you SK hunting?

[Varsoon]

Kgams.

Ffery, do you think Victor is scum? That seems to be were you're headed, but it's unclear to me.

[Varsoon]

Can't say I'm fond of any of this.

[Varsoon]

Pizza, mostly.

[Varsoon]

Ugh. I don't want to believe Victor is scum solely because of that, though.
He was supposed to be, like, my partner, my buddy, my ally against the dark.
:l
I don't want to think of Victor as scum.

[Varsoon]

It's hard not to think of today as a 1v1 between Victor and Magua because of the frozen vote,
but I think that Vezok is onto something with Kagami. I don't like the posturing.
PoS: Kagami.
Consider my vote there.

[Varsoon]

Victor, you're doing it all wrong. First, you need to chant:
This will do--

Now, you need to repeat it by the number of the Beast, this particular one being 8.
So play this for about sixty seconds while chanting aloud:
http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/537484 ... iascum.php

Continue to play at full volume, bathe yourself in Nachos while doing so:



It also helps if you say:

Nacho, we summon you to this thread!~

[Varsoon]

Alternatively, ask the mod to prod the guy.
I dunno man, I wish I had a spellcard that summoned Nacho, but we're not allowed fakesies.

[Varsoon]

Setting up a 1v1 right now ignores way too many external factors.

[Varsoon]

yeah, reminded me of the sort of silly gambits I've tried when I get caught.

[Varsoon]

Never said it was a gambit, but it reminded me of ones I've tried.
Y'know, just being like, "Even if I am scum, I have partners, we should probably use the whole day, etc. etc."

You have to do a ritual to summon Nacho.
Preferably with pictures you've taken of actual Nachos.

[Varsoon]

:3

[Varsoon]

Victor is not scum.

Sorry for being gone for the weekend.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Kagami

[Varsoon]

I've only got my spellcards and our neighborhood exchanges to inform this,
But if he's scum, then my cards are negative town utility.

[Varsoon]

I've only got my spellcards and our neighborhood exchanges to inform this,
But if he's scum, then my cards are negative town utility.

Explain this fully.

I've only got my spellcards and our neighborhood exchanges to inform this,
But if he's scum, then my cards are negative town utility.

Explain this fully.

No. Don't do that.
Remember varsoon, you are town and nacho is rolefishing scum.

If Varsoon is reading too much into abilities and being a derp, it's something that seems sort of important to nip that in the bud.

Couple reading too much (IE: My ability wouldn't work without Victor, and only has town utility if Victor is town) with having a QT and getting to back-and-forth there.

[Varsoon]

Magua is due back.
I want to see this catchup post.

I'm good with sitting on Kagami, though.
We've got such a good chance of hitting scum, I'll keel over if we don't.

[Varsoon]

The way I see it, I've already got scum. Not much sense making noise about it.

[Varsoon]

Ffery, I've tried other ways. They usually don't work.
Magua, I'm not shut down. In fact, I'd be gimping myself by lynching Victor. If he's scum (he's not), there's at least two or three other heads to bop before I bury his.

[Varsoon]

No?