Micro 324: Bridge Mafia (D3, 6/9 alive)

[penguin_alien]

Vote Count 1.07:

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

RedCoyote (L-4): Wolfy
Malakittens (L-5):
insanity018 (L-3): Egg, Lucky2u
ArcAngel9 (L-5):
Wolfy (L-3): RedCoyote, ArcAngel9
Lucky2u (L-3): Antihero, insanity018
Antihero (L-5):
Egg (L-5):
jklash12 (L-5):

Not voting: Malakittens, Wolfy, jklash12

V/LA:

Deadline in (expired on 2014-05-02 09:41:55)

[RedCoyote]

Can you remind me of the Wolfy case? I'll sheep it later if I like it.

Sure, I'll give you where I'm coming from.

19 - I think we both agreed that this post raised our eyebrows on Wolfy. You thought that 22 was good enough to get you looking elsewhere, but I contend that 22 did not address the issue I had with 19 to begin with. The problems with 19 are that he's overly concerned with Mala misinterpreting him. Wolfy doesn't even dispute that this post comes across as paranoid. The telling signs: the gigantic, italicized word 'if', the sucking up to Mala, the reference to evidence (this was explained off by jklash, I think, as just needing reasons for for voting Mala, but it still strikes me as a weird way to phrase it... it fits with the pattern of the post in that Wolfy really, really, really doesn't want Mala to think he'd ever do anything to cause her problems) and the winky face. Wolfy says this is all an attempt at innocent humor. Maybe that's the case, but I think there's more to this post than just goofing around. He's giving off scummy vibes. You be the judge.

38 - Notice specifically in this post that Wolfy asks me to explain to him why his post 19 is scummy. Nothing else in this post stands out for me, but just remember this because it's going to come back up in a bit.

62 - He essentially calls out AA and Antihero as the scumteam in this game. AA goes off on him for this. I'm don't really have a problem with this post, but this will come back up later, so just remember that he does this for now and I'll bring it back up in a minute.

65 - This is my post, I just want to point out that here I tell Wolfy specifically what he was asking for in post 38. I explain to him why his post 19 is scummy.

75 - This is an important Wolfy post that ties into 65 and 38. Wolfy specifically quotes something unrelated to my suspicions of him. He quotes me classifying his post as a scramble to defend himself. In retrospect that probably had more of a negative connotation to it than I meant to convey, but the point is that I just meant to say that 24 was neutral for me. It didn't strike me as townie or scummy. I explained this to you in my 65. In any event, the important thing to take away from this post is that Wolfy completely ignores my explanation as to why I saw 19 as scummy despite the fact that he asked me straight up, "Why [is post 19] scummy?" This is important. It shows that he doesn't really care to know why I read him as scum. He doesn't really care to engage me. I would imagine he just wants me to go away. Instead he conflates me saying that his post is scrambling with my explanation as to why 19 was scummy. I know this is a bit in depth, but I want you to understand my thought process. 75 is possibly the scummiest post in the game so far, but it's hard to understand why without the proper context.

91 - Wolfy unvotes without revoting. This is bad by itself, but it's doubly bad in Wolfy's case. Remember his 62? Wolfy essentially said that AA and Antihero were the scumteam. This implies that they are equally scummy, right? Well, if he's going to unvote AA at this juncture, why not vote Antihero? He doesn't even mention Antihero here, even though presumably Antihero is his biggest scumread at this point (given the unvote of AA and him calling AA more likely town than scum).

Since 91, Wolfy has yet to vote someone or effectively push/interrogate another player. He has just now weakly thrown a vote on me to save face, but it's only after he has been called out for not voting anyone.

Sorry if that's a bit long, but it pretty much covers everything I have against Wolfy right now. Here's a tl;dr version:

• Too paranoid. Buddies up to Mala.
  
• Lack of scumhunting. Only real scumhunting was against AA/Antihero, which he drops fairly quickly after AA pressures him.
  
• Lack of follow through. He asks me to explain why I think he's scummy. When I answer, he tries to manipulate my response instead of consider it and/or engage me on it.
  
• Lack of vote. Players that do not vote should be red flags all day, everyday. Town should always be trying to use their vote to pressure players.

---

ok. so what would you call jklash still having his RVS vote on Egg?

Fair point. I didn't realize that. I was just noticing the players that are not voting despite having clear things they suspect.

I won't cry if jklash gets lynched either. Really the only players I actively want to go into D2 at this point are myself (of course), Egg, AA and you. Everyone else I think I could be convinced of supporting for a lynch.

---

Nah it was just an RVS vote. I guess I never unvoted him.

UNVOTE:

This is baaaaaaaaaaaaad.

So, let me get this straight, right after I get through saying that Mala and Wolfy are scummy for not having a vote down at this late date and Antihero chiming in saying that you should be in that group of people that aren't voting (in your case, not voting "seriously"), you decide to unvote without voting someone?

This screams of, "Oh, crap, my name came up in a bad way, I better try to do something that makes me look good".

As I told Wolfy, one of the few things I like to point to as a way to differentiate scum from town is whether or not I think a player is actively trying to hunt scum/get someone lynched. If they are not doing this at all times (with some leeway for the start of the game, of course), then they are suspect.

In short, you are doing this. This post is not good.

[Wolfy]

... It shows that he doesn't really care to know why I read him as scum. He doesn't really care to engage me. I would imagine he just wants me to go away.

I know why you are

reading

me as scum - it's because I'm an easy mislynch in this low activity game.
I have and am engaging you - you are scum and I've voted you on that basis.
You won't go away until after I've gone away - but a mislynch on me should be raising lots of red flags.
You'll squirm, have all sorts of excuses about how you could misread such an obvious town player, but there are enough good players here to call you out.

Instead he conflates me saying that his post is scrambling with my explanation as to why 19 was scummy.

absolutely bizarre interpretation. Conflates

you

? 75 was a response to aa9's 73. It had nothing to do with you. I needed context/a reference for scrambling being scummy and I chose your post because it was recent. You should feel honoured that I find you so notable.

I know this is a bit in depth,

Yup

but I want you to understand my thought process. 75 is possibly the scummiest post in the game so far, but it's hard to understand why without the proper context.

Only your scum partner is likely to understand your thought processes from that web of illogic.

91 - Wolfy unvotes without revoting. This is bad by itself, but it's doubly bad in Wolfy's case. Remember his 62? Wolfy essentially said that AA and Antihero were the scumteam. This implies that they are equally scummy, right? Well, if he's going to unvote AA at this juncture, why not vote Antihero? He doesn't even mention Antihero here, even though presumably Antihero is his biggest scumread at this point (given the unvote of AA and him calling AA more likely town than scum).

I know you are insisting that not having a vote on is baaaaad (and you may get sheeped on that view - see what I did there ) but I disagree.
Having decided that my vote on AA9 ws precipitate I wasn't about to put it somewhere else only to retract it a few posts later.
I'm sure you could make a case for vote hopping being very scummy play.
I'm glad I waited because I've put it now where it needs to be.

Since 91, Wolfy has yet to vote someone or effectively push/interrogate another player. He has just now weakly thrown a vote on me to save face, but it's only after he has been called out for not voting anyone.

not voting anyone at this stage was a problem in your eyes only.

Weakly thrown a vote on you! Ha! You would want to present it like that. What's weak about it. You are scum and I've found you so I've voted you.

Sorry if that's a bit long, but it pretty much covers everything I have against Wolfy right now.

basically nothing then. Everything you say actually points more to me be town and you being scum.

Here's a tl;dr version:

• Too paranoid. Buddies up to Mala.
  
• Lack of scumhunting. Only real scumhunting was against AA/Antihero, which he drops fairly quickly after AA pressures him.
  
• Lack of follow through. He asks me to explain why I think he's scummy. When I answer, he tries to manipulate my response instead of consider it and/or engage me on it.
  
• Lack of vote. Players that do not vote should be red flags all day, everyday. Town should always be trying to use their vote to pressure players.

• Having fun and joking with Mala in RVS
  
• I've scumhunted you. AA didn't pressure me - she defended herself aggressively.
  
• Because your answer doesn't hold water. You are saying that I am scummy because you say I am scummy.
  
• Not immediately revoting is bad because you say it is. I smell scum taking the lead in a quiet game and looking for sheep.

As I told Wolfy, one of the few things

I like to point to

as a way to differentiate scum from town is whether or not

I think a player is actively

trying to hunt scum/get someone lynched. If they are not doing this at all times (with some leeway for the start of the game, of course), then they are suspect.

but of course scum know this. So to look as townie as possible they take the lead in the scum hunting and drive wagons on obvious townies.

[insanity018]

Wolfy, I disagree with you. I think RedCoyote is town and your case is essentially "Redcoyote is scum because he thinks I am scum."

I can make a case for Lucky after dinner (in a few hours)

[Wolfy]

...your case is essentially "Redcoyote is scum because he thinks I am scum."

Nope.
My case is the illogic of RedCoyote's case makes him look like scum pretending to scum hunt.
I would have exactly the same case if he was using a similar argument to make a scum case on you.

The person I'd most like to hear from now is Malakittens - way too quiet...
Any reads Mala?
What do you think of RedCoyote's case on me?
What about my case on him?

[Lucky2u]

I don't know wolfy, it does seem like that whole post us basically "Nuh uh, you're scum!". The big difference I see between you and red is that he is still talking about other players. Your contribution at this point is solely defending yourself while attacking him. What are your opinions on his reads of other players. What are your reads of other players. If he is scum, who are possible partners? If he isn't, who is likely scum after him?

[Wolfy]

I don't know wolfy, it does seem like that whole post us basically "Nuh uh, you're scum!". The big difference I see between you and red is that he is still talking about other players. Your contribution at this point is solely defending yourself while attacking him. What are your opinions on his reads of other players. What are your reads of other players. If he is scum, who are possible partners? If he isn't, who is likely scum after him?

I may only be talking about RedCoyote now but I have talked about other players, e.g.
Malakittens - 17, 19, 22, 122
Notice how RedCoyote in 24 when he picks up on my 19, ignores my 22 particularly "Multiple random votes just prolong RVS and we get nowhere....If I voted Malakittens now it would be a random vote."
AA9 - 62 (because of her response to

your

51

), 75, 91, 96
Plus Anti in passing and bried responses to lucky2u.

Current reads.

RedCoyote - leaning scum
Malakittens - slight leaning scum
insanity018 - leaning town
ArcAngel9 - leaning town
Lucky2u - slight leaning town
Antihero - null
Egg - null
jklash12 - slight leaning scum

[insanity018]

Reasons why Lucky is scum:

#11 - I know it's RVS so I didn't think much of it at the time but asking "Am I doing it right?" already shows self-consciousness.

#39 - The trolling statement. Null-ish for me because it wasn't accompanied by a vote but still a rather odd suggestion to make?

#46 - What seemed to be the most scummy for me. The bracketed section essentially translates to "Did I react the way you wanted?" which is again self-conscious. Scum would tend to be self-conscious because they have to make sure everyone perceives that their actions are town-like. This is different to townies who know that they are town and therefore don't need to be concerned with appearances.

Also, Antihero points out that Lucky is trying too hard to be friendly and endearing while avoiding making comments 'on anything.' Which is characteristic of scum who do not know how to start a game as scum.

#76 - Response wasn't too bad but it wasn't the trolling itself I had issue with. That's also OMGUS...

I don't really know what to make of #114 and #119. They're fairly null but I'm not seeing many attempts to ask questions, gather reads or comment about other players.

#130 is much better though.

[insanity018]

Current reads.

RedCoyote - leaning scum
Malakittens - slight leaning scum
insanity018 - leaning town
ArcAngel9 - leaning town
Lucky2u - slight leaning town
Antihero - null
Egg - null
jklash12 - slight leaning scum

I'm most interested in your read of:

Mala: Is this only from the association you mentioned earlier with RedCoyote? Or do you have other reasons?

And why you think jklash is scummy

[Malakittens]

Prod dodging, but will post after work.~

[Wolfy]

I'm most interested in your read of:

Mala: Is this only from the association you mentioned earlier with RedCoyote? Or do you have other reasons?

And why you think jklash is scummy

Mala: No scum hunting. Asking me a question and no follow up to my response. low activity - which is probably the least of them. And i did say

slight leaning scum

so I haven't got a lot.
jklash: I should actually read what I've written - if I could edit it I would! I meant slight leaning town. (that slip will probably mean I'm conf scum to RedCoyote)

[jklash12]

Nah it was just an RVS vote. I guess I never unvoted him.

UNVOTE:

This is baaaaaaaaaaaaad.

So, let me get this straight, right after I get through saying that Mala and Wolfy are scummy for not having a vote down at this late date and Antihero chiming in saying that you should be in that group of people that aren't voting (in your case, not voting "seriously"), you decide to unvote without voting someone?

This screams of, "Oh, crap, my name came up in a bad way, I better try to do something that makes me look good".

As I told Wolfy, one of the few things I like to point to as a way to differentiate scum from town is whether or not I think a player is actively trying to hunt scum/get someone lynched. If they are not doing this at all times (with some leeway for the start of the game, of course), then they are suspect.

In short, you are doing this. This post is not good.

I don't get what you are trying to say here. Your 1st and 2nd parts after the "this is bad" contradict each other. In the first part you say I did something that made me look bad because I didn't vote someone but in the second part you I did that to make myself look good. Why would I think it would look good to unvote when you were saying people were scummy for not having a vote down?

[penguin_alien]

Vote Count 1.08:

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

RedCoyote (L-4): Wolfy
Malakittens (L-5):
insanity018 (L-3): Egg, Lucky2u
ArcAngel9 (L-5):
Wolfy (L-3): RedCoyote, ArcAngel9
Lucky2u (L-3): Antihero, insanity018
Antihero (L-5):
Egg (L-5):
jklash12 (L-5):

Not voting: Malakittens, Wolfy, jklash12

V/LA:

Deadline in (expired on 2014-05-02 09:41:55)

[Antihero]

/glacial

my slots of interest aren't posting.

[RedCoyote]

I know why you are

reading

me as scum - it's because I'm an easy mislynch in this low activity game.

If that's what you thought, why did you bother asking me? Also, this is just another version of the newb card. Also there's no such thing as an easy mislynch. You know how I know? Because I'm the one pushing it without anyone biting so far.

how you could misread such an obvious town player

So you're an easy mislynch and an obvious town player at the same time? How come those two don't contradict?

75 was a response to aa9's 73. It had nothing to do with you.

You're telling me that this:

• I'm leaning early town on Wolfy due to him wanting to get out of RVS. I also thought by 'evidence', he meant 'reasons' which again links to getting out of RVS.

  I didn't interpret it that way. The way I saw it, he scrambled to defend himself, nothing more...

  So "scrambling" to defend oneself is scummy?

has nothing to do with me? The post where you quote me and use this strawman that implies I think the scrambling was what was scummy?

and you may get sheeped on that view - see what I did there

Yes, lol.

I'm sure you could make a case for vote hopping being very scummy play.

I could, but I haven't and won't.

What's weak about it.

It's opportunistically timed for one. I don't think you're enlisting many followers for two. It betrays your previous reads for three.

but of course scum know this. So to look as townie as possible they take the lead in the scum hunting and drive wagons on obvious townies.

But of course the scum know that you know they know this. So to look as townie as possible they take a backseat to scumhunting and follow wagons on obvious townies.

Care to rotate the glasses of wine one more time?

---

#11 - I know it's RVS so I didn't think much of it at the time but asking "Am I doing it right?" already shows self-consciousness.

This seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Same with your comment on 39.

#46 - What seemed to be the most scummy for me. The bracketed section essentially translates to "Did I react the way you wanted?" which is again self-conscious. Scum would tend to be self-conscious because they have to make sure everyone perceives that their actions are town-like. This is different to townies who know that they are town and therefore don't need to be concerned with appearances.

Also, Antihero points out that Lucky is trying too hard to be friendly and endearing while avoiding making comments 'on anything.' Which is characteristic of scum who do not know how to start a game as scum.

This is probably the best point in favor of scumLucky. I understand it. I'm not as convinced as you and Antihero are though. All in all, he would not me my favorite for a lynch here. This really seems like the only point against him, and this is a coinflip, honestly. I could see him doing this as scum or town.

---

jklash: I should actually read what I've written - if I could edit it I would! I meant slight leaning town.

Any particular reason why? I don't recall you mentioning him before, and I don't recall anyone else standing up for him.

---

In the first part you say I did something that made me look bad because I didn't vote someone but in the second part you I did that to make myself look good. Why would I think it would look good to unvote when you were saying people were scummy for not having a vote down?

One (or both) of two reasons:

1) You didn't read those posts.
2) You didn't agree with those posts.

So now it can't be number one, I can only assume it's the second option, yes?

[penguin_alien]

Prodding Egg

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: wolfy

@insanity I understand that tone is hard to read in text form, so perhaps you should base your read on me on something appears "self conscious" unless you read it aloud in several different inflections. I honestly don't know how you can be self conscious while trolling.

[Wolfy]

@RedCoyote
I think I'm getting myself tied up i'm knots arguing against a case which started from you taking advantage of things that were said as jokes.
The case isn't there and

feels

like a scum motivated maneuver - I think you're grasping at straws to make a case and I don't see the town motivation in that.

I'll probably move on and interact badly with somebody else now.

[Egg]

Prodding Egg

Ow

[Lucky2u]

Prodding Egg

Ow

Can't hunt scum with prodding a few eggs.

[Egg]

Prodding Egg

Ow

Can't hunt scum with prodding a few eggs.

Lucky for you.

[Antihero]

mala, i feel so... neglected
why don't you love me?

also

jklash jklash jklash

[Malakittens]

Reads are as follows:

1. RedCoyote - town - way the posts sound comes like they are from a town PoV, also like some of his reactions and pressuring of certain players.
3. insanity018 - null area
4. ArcAngel9 - Leaning Town: Her reaction test on Lucky was scum hunting also her reaction in #73 is very likely town-AA than scum-AA.
5. Wolfy - Leaning Scum: The reply to Red was kinda awkward imo. However I like 131, so conflicted :[
6. Lucky2u - Null
7. Antihero Leaning-town: Hunting and pressuring: Lucky/JK. Very weak read.
8. Egg Maybe scum? Very little vote in his posts. Seems less like hunting and more like coasting. (more so in null area~)
9. jklash12 - probably scum: Sticky RVS vote and no revote. Very little hunting, coasting. A good chance of being scum.


Reason why i haven't voted is because my scum reads are mostly gut area more than developed into something solid. I have some townreads and actually want to work with them.

[penguin_alien]

Vote Count 1.09:

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

RedCoyote (L-4): Wolfy
Malakittens (L-5):
insanity018 (L-4): Egg
ArcAngel9 (L-5):
Wolfy (L-2): RedCoyote, ArcAngel9, Lucky2u
Lucky2u (L-3): Antihero, insanity018
Antihero (L-5):
Egg (L-5):
jklash12 (L-5):

Not voting: Malakittens, jklash12

V/LA:

Deadline in (expired on 2014-05-02 09:41:55)

Prodding ArcAngel9

[Egg]

Unvote, Vote Wolfy

That's L-1. Two and a half days to deadline it seems it's him or Lucky. I'm townreading Lucky.