Open 556: Fire and Ice (Over)

[Tr1ckster]

*sigh*

*sigh*

>.<

Oops.

[Tr1ckster]

Sorry

@Mod

. Never heard of "don't use spoiler tags" before.. so I didn't think to look.. >.<

That was a short game.

[Moonlight]

You've only used them to hide quotes, so I don't think it's something you should get modkilled for.

Not needing a majority for a lynch to happen is also somewhat scum-friendly in my book, but rules are rules. =/

[Not_Mafia]

@Mod- Are you using the typical kills system for this setup? I.e A kills B and B kills A and both die?

[Zephyrus]

Hm... Reading up now

[Moonlight]

I can't decide if NM is just curious or he has a scum-motivated interest to know that and if he would be brazen enough to ask that question when he could just PM the mod. >_< I'm going to try to find games of him as scum.

[Not_Mafia]

It's partly curiosity but it is very relevant for town to know this (not now but down the line), for example look at 3p Lylos in this theme with a Fire scum and an Ice scum, a crosskill results in a town win. I wanted to establish it early.

The reason it came to mind was you pointing out we're in plurality lynch and if crosskills are disallowed it makes this very scumsided. Also I only have proper scumgame and it's offsite, I can link you if you like

Also I'll say this now, a modkill on Trickster would be ridiculously unnecessary, I don't understand why spoiler tags would even be disallowed in the first place

[Not_Mafia]

one proper scumgame*

[Moonlight]

That LyLo scenario wasn't something I was considering, that's a legit question then. =X

But I'll take you up on your offer of that game if it's not much trouble.

[Not_Mafia]

Scumgame

Some formatting stuff got ruined in a forum change unfortunately, so VCs are pretty unreadable

UNVOTE: Moonlight
VOTE: Finglove

I've exhausted my vote on Moonlight

[Tr1ckster]

Scumgame

Some formatting stuff got ruined in a forum change unfortunately, so VCs are pretty unreadable

UNVOTE: Moonlight
VOTE: Finglove

I've exhausted my vote on Moonlight

Why aren't you voting one of your other two scumreads from earlier?

[Not_Mafia]

Finglove was one of those

[Tr1ckster]

Finglove was one of those

Oops. My mistake. >.<

[Baezu]

Wow! Lots of activity since I was last on. I'll try to catch up today

[Slainte Mhath]

Time for me to share my early reads. In the order they have posted:

NM puzzles me. He cast a random vote on mastin and ignored his wagon for a while, until he didn't. His vote on me is a lot like Boro's on Tricks, scumreading someone for trying too hard to get things going.

Zeph hasn't caught up, so no read.

Tricks gives me the same feeling he gave me in our first game. I have seen him play scum, but never early, only after replacing in. So far this seems very much like his Town play.

Boro seems to consider reachy cases a scumtell and that's something I don't agree with, but that tells me nothing about his alignment.

tman's posts rub me the wrong way. His vote on NM seemed to be random, so he didn't really make anything of the pregame posts. After noticing the wagon, he showed apathy, which I can't say I appreciate.

midget is... strange. I've only played one game with him and it was our first, so his playstyle might have developed, but he seems much bolder and confident than I remember. Not sure what that means, but it's noteworthy.

Jasmine doesn't like wagons and I want to know why before I decide what to make of her.

Pasch's posts appeal to me, and even though I disagree with his viewpoint on reachy cases I can understand it. His defense of NM makes me townread him, because I don't see any scum motivation for him to disapprove of the wagon... unless those two are scum together. =P

Baezu seems to rely on meta and to dislike buddying, which I don't know what to make of.

4 Heads is going to be a headache (ba dum tsh!). I hate when the heads disagree like that.

To sum up: townread on Tricks and Pasch, scumread on tman, null on everyone else but I'm paying NM, midget and Jasmine extra attention.

I don't like the way you keep defending tricks. You guys seem to have some unwritten communication going on that's setting off alarm bells. Either you're mafia together or one of you is "tricking" the other and you know my opinion on which of you it is

[Zephyrus]

Time for me to share my early reads. In the order they have posted:

NM puzzles me. He cast a random vote on mastin and ignored his wagon for a while, until he didn't. His vote on me is a lot like Boro's on Tricks, scumreading someone for trying too hard to get things going.

Zeph hasn't caught up, so no read.

Tricks gives me the same feeling he gave me in our first game. I have seen him play scum, but never early, only after replacing in. So far this seems very much like his Town play.

Boro seems to consider reachy cases a scumtell and that's something I don't agree with, but that tells me nothing about his alignment.

tman's posts rub me the wrong way. His vote on NM seemed to be random, so he didn't really make anything of the pregame posts. After noticing the wagon, he showed apathy, which I can't say I appreciate.

midget is... strange. I've only played one game with him and it was our first, so his playstyle might have developed, but he seems much bolder and confident than I remember. Not sure what that means, but it's noteworthy.

Jasmine doesn't like wagons and I want to know why before I decide what to make of her.

Pasch's posts appeal to me, and even though I disagree with his viewpoint on reachy cases I can understand it. His defense of NM makes me townread him, because I don't see any scum motivation for him to disapprove of the wagon... unless those two are scum together. =P

Baezu seems to rely on meta and to dislike buddying, which I don't know what to make of.

4 Heads is going to be a headache (ba dum tsh!). I hate when the heads disagree like that.

To sum up: townread on Tricks and Pasch, scumread on tman, null on everyone else but I'm paying NM, midget and Jasmine extra attention.

I don't like the way you keep defending tricks. You guys seem to have some unwritten communication going on that's setting off alarm bells. Either you're mafia together or one of you is "tricking" the other and you know my opinion on which of you it is

It's how they play if you haven't been in the other games where there both in the same game

[Zephyrus]

Or they're undermining us and they're actually in the same scum team. Just a theory though

[Moonlight]

Time for me to share my early reads. In the order they have posted:

NM puzzles me. He cast a random vote on mastin and ignored his wagon for a while, until he didn't. His vote on me is a lot like Boro's on Tricks, scumreading someone for trying too hard to get things going.

Zeph hasn't caught up, so no read.

Tricks gives me the same feeling he gave me in our first game. I have seen him play scum, but never early, only after replacing in. So far this seems very much like his Town play.

Boro seems to consider reachy cases a scumtell and that's something I don't agree with, but that tells me nothing about his alignment.

tman's posts rub me the wrong way. His vote on NM seemed to be random, so he didn't really make anything of the pregame posts. After noticing the wagon, he showed apathy, which I can't say I appreciate.

midget is... strange. I've only played one game with him and it was our first, so his playstyle might have developed, but he seems much bolder and confident than I remember. Not sure what that means, but it's noteworthy.

Jasmine doesn't like wagons and I want to know why before I decide what to make of her.

Pasch's posts appeal to me, and even though I disagree with his viewpoint on reachy cases I can understand it. His defense of NM makes me townread him, because I don't see any scum motivation for him to disapprove of the wagon... unless those two are scum together. =P

Baezu seems to rely on meta and to dislike buddying, which I don't know what to make of.

4 Heads is going to be a headache (ba dum tsh!). I hate when the heads disagree like that.

To sum up: townread on Tricks and Pasch, scumread on tman, null on everyone else but I'm paying NM, midget and Jasmine extra attention.

I don't like the way you keep defending tricks. You guys seem to have some unwritten communication going on that's setting off alarm bells. Either you're mafia together or one of you is "tricking" the other and you know my opinion on which of you it is

It happened on the very first game we played in and it has been happening ever since. We have different styles and they seem to compliment each other when we're Town together, so why wouldn't I be trying to work with him when I'm townreading him?

Us being scum together is an interesting assumption and I want to see who is bold enough to go after it. *beckons with his finger*

[Tr1ckster]

We would make the best scum team, would we not, @Moon?

I think if we were scum together town would be pretty much done.

[Moonlight]

Slainte = Baezu, just thought I'd save people the trouble of looking up the heads of that hydra.

I am not ruling out that Tricks could be emulating his Town meta to a T just for the sake of earning my townread, I just don't believe that at the moment. I'm paying more attention to his interaction with

others

and those look genuine from where I'm standing.

[Moonlight]

@NM:

Finglove's V/LA, so why did you go after him? It's unlikely he'll give you a reaction. =/

[Baezu]

I'm with Bez here, Tricky is trying far too hard. The 'town shouldn't worry about whether they are going after fire/ice' is such an easy reason to go after someone, especially when it probably didn't mean anything. It's going after daft things, and making them bigger than they are so you look like you are contributing. What Moony did in the last game.

I think it's worked pretty well so far. There's been plenty of discussion, and I think Moon and Trickster are looking pretty town. If you think we should be discussing something else, please provide a topic.

because he's trying to buddy you. started at 14 and has continued.

Active town players tend to agree with each other. Until day 3 or so when they start ripping each other's heads off.

also, early read list. always a bad sign.

Please justify this assertion.

Hello there, Pasche.

;3

Oh this'll be fun. ^_^ Also, my first hydra!

NM puzzles me. He cast a random vote on mastin and ignored his wagon for a while, until he didn't. His vote on me is a lot like Boro's on Tricks, scumreading someone for trying too hard to get things going.

You'd think that trying to get things going would be a good thing.

Tricks gives me the same feeling he gave me in our first game. I have seen him play scum, but never early, only after replacing in. So far this seems very much like his Town play.

What do you think of him without the influence of past games?

Boro seems to consider reachy cases a scumtell and that's something I don't agree with, but that tells me nothing about his alignment.

tman's posts rub me the wrong way. His vote on NM seemed to be random, so he didn't really make anything of the pregame posts. After noticing the wagon, he showed apathy, which I can't say I appreciate.

Agreed on both counts.

Baezu seems to rely on meta and to dislike buddying, which I don't know what to make of.

I really don't like over-reliance on meta. It assumes that people have far more concrete tells than they really do. Plus it's difficult to check, and leads to "trust me" moments. I do not trust so easily.

Scum is either dumb and on Tr1ckster wagon or smart and off of it. All smart players on Tr1ckster wagon we consider town for the moment, all dumb players on Tr1ckster wagon give us a scumread.

There are two votes on Trickster and they're both pretty dumb. Why is Baezu a better vote than Boro?

Actually, I don't like the amount of dependence on past play present in the game at the moment. From pretty much all directions. It's a new game. People can change drastically from game to game. A lot of these comments about meta have been made off of a single game. Do you know how inaccurate your results are likely to be if you base your conclusions off of a sample size of one? It's as if the moderators picked a game at random from a type of setup and based their analysis of that setup off of that single game. If they picked the one game with a perfect town win they might decide that setup was horribly imbalanced and decide to never run it again. That setup could be perfectly balanced, there were just horrible scum or excellent town in that one specific game.

In statistics an analysis is not admittable unless you have at least 10. 10. 1 is far from enough. Please stop basing your reads off of a single game.

QFT

I'll discuss signatures for our posts when Mastin gets back. Until Monday, all posts are by Pasch.

I think we should be discussing "Is Tricky scum"

I agree

[The_Ascended]

Actually, that's not what he was trying to do:

I was referring to you and Moonlight. I don't think there's such a thing as "trying too hard" to get things going. Getting things going is good. Ergo, N_M and Boro's votes are suspect.

Tricks gives me the same feeling he gave me in our first game. I have seen him play scum, but never early, only after replacing in. So far this seems very much like his Town play.

What do you think of him without the influence of past games?

Same thing I did the first time I played with him; I want to townread him, and at the same time I'm a bit cautious because it's strange to develop a proper read that early on someone.

I spent that first game in a cycle of "Tricks can't be scum" and "Wait, this is so unlike him, something's up". I trusted him enough to work with him, but not enough to ever stop re-examining my read (which always ended with me finding many more things I liked than things I disliked).

And from his posts it seems the feeling is mutual.

I agree with his opinion on every game being different and his question for NM.

I like it. Carry on.

I think we should be discussing "Is Tricky scum"

Okay. Discuss it.

UNVOTE: Tman

I like his catch up post.

[Baezu]

Time for me to share my early reads. In the order they have posted:

NM puzzles me. He cast a random vote on mastin and ignored his wagon for a while, until he didn't. His vote on me is a lot like Boro's on Tricks, scumreading someone for trying too hard to get things going.

Zeph hasn't caught up, so no read.

Tricks gives me the same feeling he gave me in our first game. I have seen him play scum, but never early, only after replacing in. So far this seems very much like his Town play.

Boro seems to consider reachy cases a scumtell and that's something I don't agree with, but that tells me nothing about his alignment.

tman's posts rub me the wrong way. His vote on NM seemed to be random, so he didn't really make anything of the pregame posts. After noticing the wagon, he showed apathy, which I can't say I appreciate.

midget is... strange. I've only played one game with him and it was our first, so his playstyle might have developed, but he seems much bolder and confident than I remember. Not sure what that means, but it's noteworthy.

Jasmine doesn't like wagons and I want to know why before I decide what to make of her.

Pasch's posts appeal to me, and even though I disagree with his viewpoint on reachy cases I can understand it. His defense of NM makes me townread him, because I don't see any scum motivation for him to disapprove of the wagon... unless those two are scum together. =P

Baezu seems to rely on meta and to dislike buddying, which I don't know what to make of.

4 Heads is going to be a headache (ba dum tsh!). I hate when the heads disagree like that.

To sum up: townread on Tricks and Pasch, scumread on tman, null on everyone else but I'm paying NM, midget and Jasmine extra attention.

I don't like the way you keep defending tricks. You guys seem to have some unwritten communication going on that's setting off alarm bells. Either you're mafia together or one of you is "tricking" the other and you know my opinion on which of you it is

This was me. Sorry :/

[Baezu]

Or they're undermining us and they're actually in the same scum team. Just a theory though

Ok. Good to know. Thanks