Newbie 1488: Igloo-Town Tragedy (Game Over)

[Billi bilaði]

Let's get this started!

VOTE: Billi bilaði

Quite the name there.

Thanx, it has served me well. So, I hope, will my vote; which I'll keep in my pocket for the time being.

[Billi bilaði]

jklash12- The pronounciation of ð (uppercase Ð) is similar to the th in mother, father & gather etc. If I need to write it without my national keyboard, then I use d (Billi biladi).
(Now, to complete that lesson, its counterpart the þ (uppercase Þ) is similar to the Th in Thrush and Athens. While the ð can never be the first letter of a word by it self (only by putting e in front of it), the þ can only stand as the first letter of an accentuated part of a word.)
/EndOfLecture
Now, where was my vote again?

<Starts to go through pockets>

[Billi bilaði]

...Your name is now Bill.

Nah...
...but I'll answer to it.

[Billi bilaði]

What language is it? It's a pretty language *O*

Icelandic.

Now, innocentvillager got a response out of fused_shadows which got randomidget to place the second vote on fused_shadows. It is a good enough reason that merits some poking into.
So, fused_shadows, how would you yourself respond to such a sarcastic response about being a villain that is destroying our homes?

<Prays for snow so that Igloos can be rebuilt>

[Billi bilaði]

All right, guys, welcome to Mafia! So many RVS votes...

InnocentVillager, you say that it's usually scum that attacks you because of your name. That's an intriguing statement. Do you have any games to back that up?

Did a little digging:

innocentvillager:
Game 1 (1222 town):

Vincent2128 (town), vijay2vasandani (town)

Game 2 (1247 scum): (voted for lurking)
Game 3 (1249 town):

Shed (town)

Game 4 (1263 scum): (only voted after blocking)
Game 5 (1279 town): (not voted for name)
Game 6 (1281 town): (not voted for)
Game 7 (1376 town): (voted on play)
Game 8 (1375 scum):

Nachomamma8 (town) ? maybe a name vote

Game 9 (1396 town):

DoctorPepper (town)

Game 10 (open 509 town):

Thomas (scum)

NicolBolas, town, for reply)

In first 9 games (all newbies) he's voted 4 (maybe 5) times for his name. Every time by townies.
First in Game 10 (an Open one) is he voted for name from a mafioso.

Didn't have time to analyze further, so I second PrivateI's request for games to backup that statement.

[Billi bilaði]

rd of be

Taking this as a rhetorical Q: A: Because of what that person has said.
Taking this as a literal Q: A: Whom am I about to vote for?

[Billi bilaði]

Oops. That quote came out wrong. The Q. in post 28 was: "You are about to vote for someone you have never heard of before. Why?".

[Billi bilaði]

BTW: I got the feeling, during the analyzing, that innocentvillager does get too many votes in games. That indicates a careful player to me. Defenately a one to watch out for.

[Billi bilaði]

BTW: I got the feeling, during the analyzing, that innocentvillager does get too many votes in games. That indicates a careful player to me. Defenately a one to watch out for.

OK. Now I'll start to preview before posting.

This should have been "...that innocentvillager

doesn't

get..."

[Billi bilaði]

You mean you aren't already suspicious of everyone as soon as you enter the door?

Am I playing this right?

Nah, not actively suspicious. Let them speak first, I say.
Your posting, so that, I believe, is playing the game right.

[Billi bilaði]

... As the IC, I'm here to answer questions and provide some order to the game while also playing the game. If you have some question not related directly to your role (those questions should be sent to Ser Arthur Dayne) feel free to ask them. It is much better to ask a question than to blunder and hurt the town accidentally...

So, are you getting an idea about who you want to shoot at after nightfall?
An informative answer will certainly not hurt the town.

[Billi bilaði]

Now I would put you at L-1, innocent, if it wasn't way too early in the game.
Defenses with both guns blazing doesn't sit quite right with me.

[Billi bilaði]

Defending myself against accusations that completely ignore my posts is scummy? How?...

The way you defend yourself is not very townie. Swearwords don't add much logic to you defences.

[Billi bilaði]

I think the vote count on Inovil is 3 or 4... gonna wait till we get a mod count since Im lazy

This is mafia-lazy to me. Only 10 posts earlier you are asked not to put innocent at L-1, and there is not much written since then.
So, you are just skimming the posts?

[Billi bilaði]

Ugh, tired. Have I also stopped beating my wife, eh Billi?

~~

I actually believe IV and was going to question Billi for seriously researching IV's statement. You can actually tell that his original post isn't intended to be serious with the opening phrasing of "I tell you", that's not the way you phrase a serious statement of fact it's instead something you say attached to a joke.

~~
Well, I couldn't tell it wasn't serious. Especially since he tried to get a bandwagon started. Don't have the full power of english understatements. (English is my second language.)
With no posts coming in, and nothing good on TV, I had time to research, and it's not bad to look at co-players, especially when you have statements like this to work with.
So, DDD, how do you like innocents replies to the small pressure created from his initial not-serious statement?

[Billi bilaði]

...Give me ONE place where I used a

swear word

in a derogatory sense so far. ONE...

I never said it was derogatory, but in post 47: "... every single fricking game..." tells me this annoy's you pretty much; and I think that is good enough for further prodding. Maybe that's just your (current) playstyle, but it surely gets my attention.

[Billi bilaði]

I think the vote count on Inovil is 3 or 4... gonna wait till we get a mod count since Im lazy

This is mafia-lazy to me. Only 10 posts earlier you are asked not to put innocent at L-1, and there is not much written since then.
So, you are just skimming the posts?

Im lazy and that equates me to being mafia. Seems like you're looking for any kind of opening to point fingers at.

Oh, yes, of course I'm looking for any kind of openings. Talking about the weather wont give much results, I believe.
This isn't enough of a tell to put a vote on you, but it sure puts you on the radar.

[Billi bilaði]

So, DDD, how do you like innocents replies to the small pressure created from his initial not-serious statement?

I don't have a problem with it; there are times when it's best to try to ignore something but in this case I think it would be the right call to attack the point given its relative popularity and thus I don't have any problem with what IV has done.

I'm curious about how this will play out in the end. It will be informative.

So, any other topics to discuss?

[Billi bilaði]

DDDs last post (67) doesn't sit right with me. I think he's drawing our attention away from the content of innocents defenses and into the logic of "if you defend yourself aggressively enough, then you can't be mafia". It goes against all my experience as a mafia-player (which is, nota bene, all in a different language).

[Billi bilaði]

It's all based on the first sentence of post 67: "Why on Earth would you think survivalism is dubious?" The flavor that statement gives me, sets the mindset for the reading of the rest of the post.
I can well be reading way too much into the "Why on Earth" part. My "aggressively" comment, is an overstatement. (I tend to overstate things.)
But my feel was that you claimed all survivalism to be good regardless of content.
But I also note that you say now (and have said before, I believe) that the actions in question don't make him mafia in your book. Having said that, it looks to me that you want to force that opinion on the rest of us.

It will be informative to see how this all plays out.

So, the next question is: Are we giving others some freebee lurk-time while discussing this to the ground?

[Billi bilaði]

It will be informative to see how this all plays out.

I am feeling as though it has played out...what result are you expecting to see?

If either of innocent or DDD is dead when day 2 starts, I will look back at this discussion and ponder upon it.
If they both live out the game, it will be an "after the fact" information on their playstyle.

[Billi bilaði]

I'll put my vote into play before the BB4 on it expires. Lurking is a good enough reason for the first casting.
So, dawn_to_dust, why are you forced to vote to stay alive?
VOTE: dawn_to_dusk

[Billi bilaði]

I'll put my vote into play before the BB4 on it expires. Lurking is a good enough reason for the first casting.
So, dawn_to_dust, why are you forced to vote to stay alive?
VOTE: dawn_to_dusk

Well it depends if he ends up getting replaced this may be more of a not logging on situation than lurking.

OK. Thanx. Didn't know the difference. Anyways, this is probably not a permavote.

[Billi bilaði]

I think the vote count on Inovil is 3 or 4... gonna wait till we get a mod count since Im lazy

Zephyr, there has officially been a votecount posted, and you never gave us your thoughts. What do you think of InnocentVillager?

Irrelevant, IV's voters have been noted since they were trying to get that bandwagon started

Am I understanding correctly that you think your thoughts on innocent are irrelevant for us because you don't agree with the votes he got?

Could we do a day 1 no lynch by any chance?

What little I've read in newbie games on this site, is that all experienced players talk against no lynch days since it only benefits the mafia.
In the pros corner, though, might be that day 2 would need same number of votes to lynch as day one, with fewer players not voting for the lynchee.
In the cons corner is that you cannot use lynching results for analysis on day 2.

But what are the general thoughts on no lynch over a scramble at deadline to get anylynch? Are quicky-lynch-bandwagons informative?
(I've never played a game where no-lynch was a possibility.)

[Billi bilaði]

Ah. Got it. Same as me only playing with no "not lynch".
What does "civi" mean? (First time google doesn't help me with the abbreviations here.)

UNVOTE: dawn_to_dusk

So, fused should have checked in already after the V/LA.
VOTE: fused_shadows

[Billi bilaði]

...Okay please can everyone give at least one read?

You can go first.

[Billi bilaði]

Did you give PrivateI an aliby, dawn, by giving a civi read on him?

[Billi bilaði]

So, two votes on each of the experienced players, and I think inactivity plays a part in that.
Then 2 votes on fused which is tied in the top inactivity space, and should be back from V/La.
Zephyrus, who keeps to the above players posting schedule, is voteless.
The rest has all broken the 10 post barrier.

So, coming to the end of week one - will we pick up the phase a bit, or will we be content to lynch from this group? (I, for one, would like to see more activity.)

[Billi bilaði]

Ah, didn't see page 5, but it doesn't change much.

[Billi bilaði]

If it were the end of the day, and I had to vote for lynch, then the following list would be my vote-choice in descending order:

Debonair Danny DiPietro : Saying a lot of the "right" things, but not showing me that he is look for mafia.
PrivateI : Semi-experienced player who's trying not to say anything.
innocentvillager : Seems to have decided to lay low after the first rounds of attacks.
fused_shadows : Hardly said anything, and hasn't returned at specified time.
Zephyrus : Waiting for others to play. Not contributing.
randomidget : Playing the game. Will not get my vote at this time.
dawn_to_dusk : Playing the game. Will not get my vote at this time.
jklash12 : Playing the game. Will not get my vote at this time.

[Billi bilaði]

fused logged in on friday but didn't see a reason to let us know he's alive, although his official V/LA was over. I would hammer him for this.
But, innocent has more posts in the game he's modding than in the game he's playing (both started on the same day), so, I'm gonna put him at L-1 now.

VOTE: innocentvillager

[Billi bilaði]

...On that note, I'm still really flipping right now between who I like as scum. I see the DDD view, and I'm almost seeing Zephyr primarily for this reason. Does anyone else have thoughts on Zephyr, because I could be totally off.

Zephyrus does not read as town to me.

[Billi bilaði]

There wasn't a reason for IV's unvote and no revote Private.
I think the argument against Zephyr could be to do with the fact that he is still learning the ropes.

This, I worded that terribly wrong. IV isn't scummy since I found out what the (ISO) does now

and reread most of his posts

. Forgive this newbie

So, which of innocents 8 posts did you not read?

innocent was happy to post 4 times as much in different games yesterday, and not add a single thought to this game.
My vote is staying put.

[Billi bilaði]

So, DDD, PrivateI is contributing through posting questions and being active throughout the game.
Now, the other SE, innocent, only has 1 post after the first 3 days, and no questions, no content except to defend himself, basically, no gameplay.
Where is your picking on that undercontribution from an SE?

And, you are tying the 2 SE's as an undercontributor (with exception of fused, which is getting replaced, you 3 have the fewest contributions).
Have you considered picking on yourself?

PS: I learned the saying abbout the word assume in Australia. c",

[Billi bilaði]

Welcome, Jake from State Farm.

[Billi bilaði]

I like it when things get interresting - so, for the heck of it - lets get this to L-1...

VOTE: PrivateI

[Billi bilaði]

I'm very comfortable with L-1 with less than 6 days to go. Quickhammer would be very informative, and so could moves off the wagon be.

[Billi bilaði]

... should we lynch no one ever?

So, with less than 5 days to go (of 14), and more then half the players with fewer posts than the moderator, are you quite comfortable, DDD, to lynch now?

Most newbie games I've looked over have close to 30 pages of day one. All the experienced players here are totally relaxed that this game is giving close to no information about a big part of the players, and that I don't need to take off my shoes and socks to count the pages.
Well, at least my toes are warm still.

<Twiddles thumbs>

So, might the moderator have made the mistake of having 3 mafia members?

[Billi bilaði]

The funny thing is nobody even questioned why I voted private. Nobody asked if I had read up or anything.

That certainly wasn't what I was expecting.

unvote

Well, I just put you in the mafia-corner and decided to see how things would play out.

[Billi bilaði]

...Billi, I have to question your quite sudden shift. ..., you appear to defend me, and then in the next content post, switch your vote for no apparent reason. As someone who has played logically for most of this game, the sudden switch concerns me. Unless your opinion drastically shifted between Post 131 and 139, it simply appears like you wanted the most convenient lynch. Can you explain?

While I'm thinking about it, Billi, your vote came just minutes after Jake's vote on me. I feel like that was quite an opportunistic jump.
...

Nope; no shift in suspicion. I just think that this bandwagon will be very informative. In a well played game it is pure luck to get a mafioso on day one, so, I have no qualms over L-1's on day 1.
This game is "well-played" in the sense the almost everybody is laying low and so giving little to no info on status.

Also, with me reading as a complete townie to all who have given calls, a small suspicion going my way isn't that bad.

I gave my reads in a post not so long ago, and nothing has changed since then. I would prefer bandwagons on my top candidates, and would hammer some of them, given the opportunity.

[Billi bilaði]

Hang on a minute. We are lynching Private because he isn't very active. This is a terrible excuse. He could be innocent, or a town power role.

Vote IV

best vote we've got. Nothing contributed, and pretty survivalistic.
Dunno, why I said that stuff about Private, I was tired. Sorry about that.

please tell me what the difference between Private and IV are.

PrivateI is asking questions (which I haven't seen much answers to, which can totally kill a line of questioning). He is regularly contributing, although the posts aren't long. So, everything for me says: don't lynch on day one - see how it plays out.

innocent has no contributions to the game at all, in my opinion. He blundered with a lie in the beginning, (which in itself was of little import as DDD has pointed out), and then the only thing he did was aggressively defend himself when caught, instead of calmly state his reasons. After the first 3 days he stopped playing, and just puts in mandatory one-liners with no content, so as not to get prodded - while he has a lot of activity in other games. Basically, for me, he's perfect lynch material for day 1.

[Billi bilaði]

Yet you aren't voting him...

Also what lie? I didn't catch where that happened.

The lie is the last sentence of post no. 8 in the game.
The reason for me currently not voting him is stated in my very resent answer to PrivateI.
And, as the L-1 has been dropped, my vote goes to its proper home...

VOTE: innocentvillager

[Billi bilaði]

So, with less than 5 days to go (of 14), and more then half the players with fewer posts than the moderator, are you quite comfortable, DDD, to lynch now?

Most newbie games I've looked over have close to 30 pages of day one. All the experienced players here are totally relaxed that this game is giving close to no information about a big part of the players, and that I don't need to take off my shoes and socks to count the pages.
Well, at least my toes are warm still.

And my question back to you is what's the alternative? A no lynch isn't a real option; saying we won't lynch until X more pages have passed is completely arbitrary as there may or may not be actual useful information in those pages, saying we won't lynch for X more days is likely just to cause a panic push at the deadline and that sucks.

Personally, I've got what I feel like are two solid town reads, another acceptable town read, three new players I'd be willing to lynch and two SEs I'd love to lynch. Feels fine to me especially once things start getting cut down.

I don't take that as a serious question back to me. I've already stated that I'm ready to hammer. You are just evading the questions put to you.

Still, this is the first time I see that you treat both SE's the same. Also your first semi-reads to look at. We are certainly making progress.

PS: If you'd love to lynch both SE's, then why not join me on the innocent bandwagon?

[Billi bilaði]

No, jklash12, this sentence is only talking about PrivateI, not about a nolynch-day. (The word "him" is missing from the sentence.)
As you can see in other recents posts I'm quite ready to lynch now.
But, I would love to here your explanation of why no-lynch is bad. I've never played such a game, so, I can see both pros and cons.

[Billi bilaði]

I'll just address random shit that popped out at me:

innocent has no contributions to the game at all, in my opinion. He blundered with a lie in the beginning,

Um I thought we already established this was a joke k thanks bye

Bb: Um, and that was duly noted. Your responses weren't jokes, though, were they?

Most newbie games I've looked over have close to 30 pages of day one.

30 pages is like the max for D1. Most are like 10-20 pages.

Bb: Well, as I said, this was what I gathered from my readings.

while he has a lot of activity in other games.

I have to mod a game, and the only other thing I did was check out what marathon forum was for a night. So no.

Bb: 32 posts to check out the marathon forum with not a single post to your active game? Well, OK. Noted.

Where is your picking on that undercontribution from an SE?

There is no SE burden to contribute any more than others. The only reason I am an 'SE' is because I can't play games without being labelled an 'SE'. IC has more burden because they sign up for that role.

Bb: WHAT? I have not seen that there was a mandatory requirement to play newbie games or be an SE. There are like 8 other forums with experienced games to pick from (which you must know since you've played at least 1 of them acc. to my analysis of you). So, am I misunderstanding, or is this just another of your soup-stirring comments, just shy of a lie, to get reaction?

...

DDD is starting to bother me:

Survivalism short of lying is fine, it's just not a scumtell. And of course I want to force my opinion on the town, I want it so that when I want to push my opinion that there are no dissenting opinions.

This is scummy not for the reason that randomidget proposed necessarily, but more because it seems very awkwardly aggressive. I know a lot of experienced mafia that like to be aggressive and play to the leader aggressive-town stereotype, and this sentence is overdoing that aggression.

No dissenting opinions

? You don't even need EVERYONE to sheep you to win. You just need most.

That being said people unnecessarily got their panties in a twist when he voted Private which was fine

The reasoning for his lynch would also apply to a power role staying low. He hasn't done anything scummy.

Got that scum? Just post as little as possible and randomidget will never lynch you because you might be a power role and you haven't done anything scummy.

Not helpful to town at all; a newbie has a little misconception and instead of explaining why he's wrong in a constructive way (as is your IC job), you sass him out. Does not look town-motivated at all...

Bb: Nice one. Actually you're playing here. DDD is a good lynching candidate, along with you.

[Billi bilaði]

Bb: WHAT? I have not seen that there was a mandatory requirement to play newbie games or be an SE. There are like 8 other forums with experienced games to pick from (which you must know since you've played at least 1 of them acc. to my analysis of you). So, am I misunderstanding, or is this just another of your soup-stirring comments, just shy of a lie, to get reaction?

I can't play in the Newbie Queue without being an SE, is what I'm saying. There's no SE burden for anything in this game. I dislike playing in other forums especially because I prefer simple setups; I can't stand random roles that I don't know about. The only other forum I can semi-tolerate is Central Park.

Soup-stirring comments to get a reaction? I don't even know where you got that. Please enlighten me.

Bb: You say things that are half-truths or misleading. That would be called by some "stirring the soup to get reactions". You said this was the only way you could play games, and now we should know that you ment that this was the only way you could play newbie-games. Soup-stirring, and, I think, way too much salt in the soup.

That joke thing page 1 really sealed the deal. It's kinda hard to explain but I've seem scum try to take something serious in rvs and use that as a reason to vote. Plus it didn't come off as a joke, it read serious to me.

What does this even mean? If something "seals the deal" you better explain it well, not come up with some BS reasoning. There was nothing serious in RVS and that was my first post. Like what does this even mean. I've read it like 5 times I can't understand it. Even Billi who was so intent on pegging me scum for that one post agreed that it was a joke. The only thing remotely serious was everyone attacking me for something super trivial and my responses to that.

Bb: Nah, hardly agreed that I thought it was a joke, but agreed that I understood the resoning for calling it a joke.

...

[Billi bilaði]

That's a lynch.
So, do I have a big target on my back for the night?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_66L4wdNXw

[Billi bilaði]

It would have been nice if you, innocent, would have followed your own advice.

[Billi bilaði]

If innocentvillager had posted his post-lynch posts in the L-1 phase, after hammer had been declared, I would have retracted my vote.

Initial thought for day 2 is that Jake from State Farm has the most opportunistic vote on the lynch-wagon. DDD is next on my "to watch" list.

[Billi bilaði]

"... after hammer

intent

had been declared..." to be precise.

[Billi bilaði]

So, can it be safely said that there is a Mafia roleblocker in this game?

[Billi bilaði]

Since when is a vote with a valid reasoning opportunistic? I'll answer my own question. It's not.

Ah, but then it's a question if everybody agrees with the valid reasoning.

You sub in for a player who was very inactive, and with no town-tells. (Not so suspicious in it's own right.)

You test the waters for voting in this game with an unexplained vote to PrivateI. With no comments, you (if you were a mafioso) could deduct that it is ok to vote on shallow grounds in this game. (It's more mafia than town in my book, with no knowledge of you, but not in any strong way.)

You miss the main topic of day one. Why votes are accumulating on innocent, and when it is pointed out to you, you vote based on the initial lie, and don't seem to consider at all the comments and explanations that come in the pages in between. That smells stronger than the vote on PrivateI, and is opportunistic in my book.

You take part in both L-1's (the only player that does so, it seems to me, if I don't count DDD's hammer vote).

PS: I have thought a lot about if fused quit because he was mafioso. I have not reached a conclusion, and believe that if I would ask, the bulk of the answers would be that I should not use that as a base for a tell. Still, I decided to mention it as part of my case for a possible opportunistic play.

So, all in all, you have more points against you than for you as I'm currently reading the game. At this stage, though, not enough for me to vote you now.

[Billi bilaði]

So, can it be safely said that there is a Mafia roleblocker in this game?

I'm really sorry, I haven't played THAT many newbie games (just like two), so I don't know how you came up with this assertion at all.

...

Why do you say that? I don't think there is proof to say there is one.

...

Yeah, we don't have any setup information we can trust. A jailkeeper, doctor, or one-shot bulletproof could prevent a kill as well as scum getting cute and submitting a no kill or more likely missing their deadline to submit a kill; too many options to say anything definitive.

Ah, this was probably premature posting on my behalf.
I was thinking upon the maxtrix setup, and the possibility of a doctor having protected me, as my money was on me getting NK'd. I was seeing connections to a Roleblocker when I was called out of the house, and decided to send the post.
Still, as has been mentioned later, I am also on the line that the mafia would not have skipped killing. I think that could only happen by accident on night 1.

[Billi bilaði]

People really aren't active here...
Okay please can everyone give at least one read?

As I see it, we got named reads from 3 players on day 1 (random, Bb & innocent), and one unnamed read (DDD).

Are the experienced players happy with that?

Could everyone please give a read now?

[Billi bilaði]

Nice.

[Billi bilaði]

It doesn't matter if people think my reasons were valid, I know they were and that's all I care about.

Bb: Then why care so deeply about my analysis of why you could have ulterior motives? If you are townie, then please put on mafia-shoes for a moment and look at it with that perspective.

If my vote on PI was so worrisome to you, why did you sheep me only 9 minutes later? Why didn't you ask me for a reason? ( oh and to put everything on the table , you were also on both L1's, not just me. Funny you leave that part out though )

Bb: Your vote wasn't at all worrisome to me, but it gave a tell to be analysed. I explained my reasoning to PrivateI in post 159. Go check it out.
Not so funny that I leave my part out, since to myself I'm a confirmed townie. (To others I usually don't want to be a "confirmed" townie, but I think I was that on day 1.

Also if you were thinking a lot about fused replacing out, surely you noticed he hasn't had a post on site since his last post in this game, all the way back on March 24th.

Bb: No, my mental powers aren't so great that I see login times of people when thinking about them. If he has or hasn't logged in again, has no relevance. It's just foam.

That comment about the RB looks like he knows more about the setup than the rest of us. I literally just had a game where scum slipped about the setup.

Bb: For me, thinking about my own playing style, I believe that would have been too stupid a slip for me. But of course players here can not evaluate that at this time.

So how's this for opportunistic for you

Bb: I totally love it. Finally we're playing this game on a level that entertains me.

Vote: bob

Bb: "... the builder."

I don't think you were the doc save, could of been a variety of things that happened

Bb: Yup. There could have been a number of things.

PS: Billy Joel's "Glass houses" is one of my favorite albums.

[Billi bilaði]

U confirmed townie day 1?

As good as, yes. But as I said, only fully confirmed to myself.

[Billi bilaði]

I don't make cases.

It sure looked like a case to me.
VOTE: Jake from State Farm

[Billi bilaði]

Very interresting.

[Billi bilaði]

Jake, it looks like you're talking to me, but your quoting randomidget. Is that a erroneous quoting, as I've seen happen sometimes, or are you talking to random?

[Billi bilaði]

Well, 2 players could back me up on the fact that you are not so lucky 2 games in a row. But I seriously doubt that they will do so until after the game.

[Billi bilaði]

Well, 2 players could back me up on the fact that you are not so lucky 2 games in a row. But I seriously doubt that they will do so until after the game.

What does the last part of this supposed to mean?

That the 2 mafioso will not come forward now and back me up on the fact that I'm not in their team. They are welcome to do so, however.

[Billi bilaði]

Why is it a bad wagon? Billi has not looked town today. He tried to look for power roles when we know nothing about power roles. The other thing he has said is that he is a pretty much conf town, which he isn't. It is like he was trying to keep suspicion off him.

But it's quite the opposite. I'm trying to keep suspicion ON me!

[Billi bilaði]

...{DDD quote}...
Your protip is horrible

Here's a better protip. Don't give a shit how you are perceived if you are town, just find scum and everything will fall into place. If you happen to get lynched, who gives a rats ass as long as you've done your best to find scum and left behind posts people can use.

Expletives aside, don't you think I'm leaving behind posts that people can use, when I turn out to be town?

[Billi bilaði]

The main thing that bothers be about billi is he was hands down the most opportunistic person day 1 yet he tries to act like he isn't and falsely accuses someone else of being opportunistic.

That's scum shit right there. Town doesn't do that shit.

Now you are being downright mean.
I give you good explanations why your actions on day 1 look opportunistic in my book. You don't refute any of that, but just act like a mafioso in super defence.

Yes, I take pride in being opportunistic, and I'm generally a very chaotic player. I like it. And I'm ready to defend it. That doesn't mean that somebody else cannot be opportunistic also.

[Billi bilaði]

...
I'm sorry to inform you but people usually don't look back at dead people's posts.

Some do, I've seen on the site. (Others sometimes don't even seem to read it the first time around.)
I'll base my posting on that it's better to have posted than just thought about it.

[Billi bilaði]

Zephyrus, I lean towards the idea that you are town, based on sparse content, but checking out the other game you are currently playing, you show much more content there, although you have even fewer posts there than here.
Why aren't you showing us any insights as you seem to be doing in game "Open 552"?

[Billi bilaði]

OK, thanx Jake.
I mentioned a similar thing on day 1 in regards to innocent, but didn't then specify a name of a game. So, this would have been ok if I had skipped the name? Or is the rule even harsher than that?

(I have actually seen this rule, but it slipped my mind since I'm not used to it yet.)

[Billi bilaði]

Like seriously, that's just massive town-signalling.

And is town-signalling a town thing to do?

Oh, yes. Big yes.

[Billi bilaði]

random, did you do this based on my notes? c",
Basically the same results as I would give.

[Billi bilaði]

...my next move is to try and find anything that i could use to get someone. like comparing play styles of people to different games and see if i can find a result...

I could point you to an icelandic website for game comparison of my playstyle. How's your icelandic?

[Billi bilaði]

VOTE: Private
neither jake nor billi are suspects so it wont lynch someone but not scumhunting can be suspicious. there is one main person not scumhunting according to random's analysis. i tried to give a town-read on private but looking back on it, it was very weak.

The wagons for me and Jake aren't going anywhere for the time being, so I want to help put some pressure on PrivateI, since he is now the only one left with fewer posts than the mod.
I know his excuse for not posting much, but it gets more and more suspicious without anything specific to put your finger on.

VOTE: PrivateI

[Billi bilaði]

Jæja hann gæti bara nota þýðandi vefsíðu

http://www.baggalutur.is/gestapo/index.php
But you need to be a registered user to see the mafia part of the site: http://www.baggalutur.is/gestapo/viewforum.php?f=25

[Billi bilaði]

But seriously why are more people not voting billi for his scum slip?

If we are going to ignore it just put me out of my misery so I don't have to watch town lose this game.

Because they see it for what it really is, and that certainly isn't a scum slip.

I don't see your cry for pity as especially townie. Do you believe that I am the only one in the mafia, and so there isn't a need to look for another culprit besides me, and therefor everyone should just sheep with you?
You have the same size wagon on you as me, and neither of them is moving, but you regard it as a misery.
I just thought that would be an opportunity to have more fun with the game.

[Billi bilaði]

billi said he would have given the same reads and at that time, I didn't want to check the 12 pages myself.

Then I found out that you can read a person's posts in isolation. And I agree with the read

Am I the only one who noticed dtd said he didn't feel like reading the game?

dtd- If you don't want to read the game why are you playing?

Zephyrus said a similar thing on day 1. Didn't want to read 10 posts back. That didn't get much notice either since he claimed lazyness.
I don't know how much that means.

[Billi bilaði]

It's not misery, It's frustration

You slipped so sure we could sit here and look for your partner but nobody is even doing that. I'm not going to waste my time cause there's people out there who actually think you didn't slip. One of those are probably your partner so my lynch pool is narrowed.

You're so sure I'm scum that you don't want to bother looking for the other mafia because not enough players believe you. And you insinuate that if you are not sheeped you want to be lynched and then you wont even read the game anymore.
You are so not playing as a townie in my book!

[Billi bilaði]

But seriously why are more people not voting billi for his scum slip?

If we are going to ignore it just put me out of my misery

so I don't have to watch town lose this game.

It's not misery, It's frustration

You slipped so sure we could sit here and look for your partner but nobody is even doing that. I'm not going to waste my time cause there's people out there who actually think you didn't slip. One of those are probably your partner so my lynch pool is narrowed.

You're so sure I'm scum that you don't want to bother looking for the other mafia because not enough players believe you. And you insinuate that if you are not sheeped you want to be lynched and then you wont even read the game anymore.
You are so not playing as a townie in my book!

I never said I wasn't going to read the game

and I am playing like a townie. Granted it's a stubborn one who wants his way or the highway but that's me, thats what I do. I don't expect you to believe me not do I really care if you do. I'll keep doing my thing and you keep doing yours.

If I had to hammer it down scum is probably you/ddd. Though it could be a lurker.

If this first red bit isn't insinuating that you will stop reading the game, then I'm not as good in the kings english as I believed I was.
You may be playing like a townie, but, as I say, in my book, it is not as a townie that is helping the town.
You certainly don't have to change your playstyle for me, but I'm surely, as well, going to point out how that playstyle looks to me.

[Billi bilaði]

Oh I see you don't know what "put me out of my misery" means...

I know it full well.
I question your reading of the game, though, based on the second part I highlighted, in regards to the first part, and what happened inbetween.

[Billi bilaði]

Newbie question: What does L-1 mean? Lynch 1?

It is things like this that make me lean towards Zephyrus being town. But I'm not leaning so hard that I'm in danger of falling over.

[Billi bilaði]

PrivateI hasn't shown me anything yet that gives reason to retract my vote, so it will stay for now. But there is still time.

[Billi bilaði]

Second twilight in a row the lynched player comes with a strong post. Sheeesh.

[Billi bilaði]

Why night kill Zephyrus?
Is it because he was the only one not voting, and therefor you don't need to narrow the list of the lynchees of PrivateI to point out the mafioso who is helping with the lynch of his partner?
Or is it so that Jake can make us think so, and have us looking through the lynch list instead of looking at him?
Is it dawn_to_dusk that got locked in with a vote on his partner? Or randomidget?

At least, currently DDD and jklash12 are on my "not vote" list.
Jake is my top suspect, but still I fear that he's pulling innocents VT-playstyle.
dawn_to_dusk is second, and randomidget third.

[Billi bilaði]

Sorry, why are people accusing me? Show me one example of me being scummy? ONE.

I'm not reading you as a mafioso, but does that make you excempt from investigation?
You are not part of my top 2 townies, and not in my top 2 suspects, so that places you square in the middle.

Are you such a bad player that you mean to say that you could not hide your guilty status if you had one?

[Billi bilaði]

After looking at voting patterns, Jake screams at me being scum. (But the killing of Zephyrus makes no sense to me if Jake is scum.)
(Red votes are obsolete votes, i.e. retracted or vote moved.)

Players	Day 1 voting
dawn_to_dusk	10: Billi
jklash12	7: random
Billi bilaði	1: jklash12
Jake f. SF	5: innocent	6: random	11: Billi
Zephyrus
randomidget	3: Zephyrus
PrivateI	4: dawn	12: DDD	15: jklash12	18: Jake	19: Billi
DDD	13: random	14: dawn	22: innocent
innocent	2: Jake	8: PrivateI	9: random	16: Zeph	17: Billi	20: random	21: Billi	23: Jake	24: DDD

Wagons:
1 V3: innocent: Jake, PrivateI, randomidget (? 2 mafiosos trying to get a wagon?)
2 V4: innocent: Jake, PrivateI, Zephyrus, Billi (Zeph unvotes)
3 V4: PrivateI: DDD, jklash12, Jake, Billi (Jake unvotes !!!)
4 V5: innocent: PrivateI, random, Billi, Jake, DDD - LYNCH

Players	Day 2 voting
dawn_to_dusk	(13: PrivateI - after lynch)
jklash12
Billi bilaði	1: Jake	2: jklash12	3: dawn	7: PrivateI
Jake f. SF	4: DDD	5: random	6: Billi
Zephyrus
randomidget	11: PrivateI
PrivateI	8: dawn	9: Billi	10: random	11: DDD	12: jklash12
DDD

Wagons:
1 L3: Billi: Jake, jklash12, dawn (? 1 mafiosos trying to get a wagon?)
2 L3: Jake: DDD, random, Billi
3 L4: Billi: Jake, jklash12, dawn, PrivateI (? 2 mafiosos trying to get a wagon?) dawn unvotes!
4 L5: PrivateI: dawn, Billi, random, DDD, jklash12 - LYNCH

=======

On day 1, Jake votes PrivateI, and then is the first to retract when L-1.
On day 2, Jake is the only one still alive not voting for PrivateI.

Why would dawn, random, DDD & jklash move over to PrivateI on day two when there were 2 perfectly good wagons to pursue further?
Why lynch in only 12 votes on day 2?
Why kill Zeph who only voted twice in the whole game, and retracted both votes? Was he too obvious town.

Is somebody messing with my head and framing Jake because he got under fire on day two?
Well, it's 2:30 am, so I need to sleep on this.

[Billi bilaði]

Sorry, incorrect voting number sequence on day two for last 3 votes.
DDD's vote is no. 12, jklash12's lynch vote is no. 13, and after-lynch vote is 14.

[Billi bilaði]

jklash12 makes a very strong case that I could easily buy into. No need to rush the voting yet, though.

[Billi bilaði]

At this point billi was coming under fire for the role thing.
In a lot of those points about Day 1 I was not defending Private, I was pushing against IV.
I wouldn't have NK'ed Zephyr. To be honest I would have been looking at DDD as a late town leader who would have been unlikely to be protected.
If you look at my last game (I think it was 1773) then you will see my vote does jump around quite a lot.
Also, Private made a case against me whilst being wagonned. I haven't played that many games, but I think it would be odd for scum to try to pull their scum partner down. (please can someone more experienced tell me more about this?)

I have seen scum do this so it's entirely possible. It's that whole wifom thing. Would scum toss their partners name out there hoping people will think he's town with a scum flip. The stalling and the bs shit you said about me makes me think it could be you but I really feel like billi slipped. I want to see his and private's interactions before deciding.

I regularly take down my fellow mafiosos if I feel it helps with winning. Last game I played (in iceland) I and my fellow goon took down our godfather. It was a big help with winning the game.
I will be surprised if the same isn't done on this site.

Jake, can you take a selfie of when you see me flip town, and post it here?

[Billi bilaði]

the only thing that hangs me up about you billi is you seem to be trolling at times and I don't see that coming from newb scum

Then again you aren't really a newb are you?

Not a newb as such, I believe.
Playing the mandatory newb games here before I look at the other forums.

[Billi bilaði]

Silence is golden

[Billi bilaði]

I have nothing further to say until proper discussions start on the topics already raised this game-day.

[Billi bilaði]

What discussion?

Exactly. There are none. But the topics are there.

[Billi bilaði]

yet you are the one refusing to discuss anything...

i'm sticking with my gut

vote: billi

how's that for discussion

You are stubborn, that's for sure.
How am I refusing to discuss things when theres nobody to discuss with?

Since you only want to play this sort of game, I'll play along (because it fits the voting and death patterns). But I sure wish I had your confidence in my vote.
VOTE: Jake from State Farm

[Billi bilaði]

Give me your thougths, Jake, on post 396, and then we can have a discussion.
Idle accusations that I don't want to have discussions, when you completely ignore my analysis of the game so far, where I even try to figure out if you are being setup as a mafia-member, don't sit well with me.
I don't like discussions where I feel I'm the only one contributing.

PS: Jake is at L-1, for the non-voters attention!!!

[Billi bilaði]

Why would an experienced killer choose him over someone else? Enlighten me

Too let you stand out as a sore thumb from the wagon were everybody else is having a party, and he [the experienced player] could keep on hiding.

[Billi bilaði]

Why would PrivateI put me to L-1 after only 2 day of day two, when Jake and I both had wagons of 3 with 5 to lynch?
a) Jake is his partner so he goes on the other wagon.
b) Jake and I are both townies and he wants to get a hammer on the alleged mafia-slip. I.e. the more defensible L-1.

He definitely did not need to vote right away (post 241 on 08.04).
These wagons had formed in 2 days, and there were 12 days left of day 2.

The only person not voting was Zephyrus, now a confirmed townie.
So, if Jake is also a townie, did PrivateI vote with his mafia-partner, or against him?

[Billi bilaði]

Why would dawn_to_dusk be the first one to vote PrivateI on day 2 (which led to a pretty quick lynch) if he was his mafia-partner?
PrivateI was also dawns first vote of the game.
Nah, I can't picture dawn as a Mafia-member.

randoms vote in post 470 is not understandable to me.

PS: Should this bit from post 464 be considered a slip? "If I was town I wouldn't do that." Nah. I think randoms posts on this page (19) would be a bad mafia-play.

[Billi bilaði]

Vote private

Same reasons as stated by dtd

Getting a strong town read on dtd

, and a weak town on Jake.

UNVOTE: Jake
I don't think he is scum. I really don't know with Jake.
VOTE: dtd

The guy whose I distrust the most.

random: What changes for you with dawn between posts 307 and 470?

[Billi bilaði]

Well I'm sticking with confirmed scum. When private flips town I'll be looking at who started the counter wagon

So, is your believe that it was very nice of me to give you my mafia-buddy by being the second on the PrivateI wagon for his lynch?

[Billi bilaði]

...You don't even question my vote which is why you were originally on my radar, a townie imo would have. When I unvoted in post 150 it's pretty obvious my vote was a reaction test. had I been scum and you just put him to L-1 I would have just rolled with it for the town cred, I am all about getting town cred as scum....

Nobody questioned your vote on PrivateI, but you questioned me on putting him to L-1.
If he had been a townie, yes, then you might "have just rolled with it for the town cred," - but he was a mafioso.
If you are one too, then you obviously did not feel too comfortable lynching your partner too early.
So, for me, this quote above doesn't hold water.

[Billi bilaði]

btw damn you for making me do extra work, this is the part that I vowed never to do anymore cause I would do all this shit and nobody would listen to me anyway and go with some guy who just said "gut"

Bb: It wondrous how you often play the self-pity card. I don't especially feel any need to be damned. If you don't feel like anyone ever listens to your reasoning, why do you like to play this game? It can't be for the yelling that you say you are holding off of in this game?

So looking at the VCs in my history the most common is 1 scum on and 1 scum off. I know I have seen all town mislynches before but since private was scum that's obviously ruled out and I am sure there have been 2 scum on wagons but most common is 1 on and 1 off.

Bb: So, if you are in the mafia, then you played it well by being on 2 wagons with PrivateI.

If we assume that scenario scum is dtd or jk and if we assume that 2 scum on that means our pool is either Billi, random, or DDD (ddd having the worst reason to vote on the wagon)

Bb: After re-reading the whole game, I can only see DDD as an alternative to you as a mafia member. He is too slick.

innocentvillager (5) - PrivateI, randomidget, Billi bilaði, Jake from State Farm, Debonair Danny DiPietro [Lynched]
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2) - dawn_to_dusk,

innocentvillager

PrivateI (1) - jklash12


Day 2 we did have 2 nice wagons form

Jake from State Farm (3) - Debonair Danny DiPietro, randomidget, Billi bilaði
Billi bilaði (3) - Jake from State Farm, jklash12, dawn_to_dusk, private

from my pov since I know i am town, that still leaves scum in the pool of 3 (DDD, random, Billi) and had billi not made the setup comment I would probably be on DDD or random (DDD for his lousy hammer and random for ignoring billi's opportunistic voting while calling me out for mine, which it wasn't.

Bb: I believe it was opportunistic, and you scolding people for believing so doesn't help your case in my book.

Private voting Billi could have been a bus which if Billi slipped, gives the green light to bus your partner for town cred

Bb: I put him at L-1, he put me at L-1. That would be a hell of a good mafia-team.

so private flipping scum still reads Billi as scum

Bb: I am supposed to believe your statements, but you are not supposed to believe mine.

I re-read day 1 over and over and over again and still haven't seen a single town quality out of billi yet everyone town read him but me. As scum i would be fucking stupid to go after the 1 person that nobody is going to get lynched. I made that mistake in the first scum game I ever played under this Jake account and guess how that ended? badly, I lost.

Bb: So, what other account did you use? You not really a newb? Can you name me a player that has never lost?

So if I look bad for going after the choice that isn't the popular choice, I really don't give a crap because all signs to me point to Billi being scum and in the end i have to trust my gut and if that means i get lynched so be it.

Bb: Nice that people hate it when they are voted on gut but don't give a crap about voting on gut.

I so wanted to believe you were a townie as is obvious in my starting analysis of day 3, but you ignore that completely and just blow up about the mafia-tells that you so like to give out. Not a single help in trying to find out who is setting you up with the Zeph kill.

The only remote possibility, besides you, I see after re-reading the whole game is DDD. Other options don't make sense to me based on voting patters, deaths and tells. But I can't move my vote to DDD based on the tells I get from you two guys.

So, am I still damned for "making you" actually play the game, or did I read this thoroughly enough?

[Billi bilaði]

I mean that he cant even be bothered to defend himself. If I was town I wouldn't do that.

Nobody has even provided a case to defend myself against. I defended myself against DDDs weak ass reason, you didn't really give me anything,

and billi apparently wanted me and only me to respond to his earlier post since

his everyone basically ignored it yet I was the only one called out for not responding to it.

This is such a tunnel. Man. Sheesh.

[Billi bilaði]

Well I'm sticking with confirmed scum. When private flips town I'll be looking at who started the counter wagon

So, is your believe that it was very nice of me to give you my mafia-buddy by being the second on the PrivateI wagon for his lynch?

Huh? I'm confused what you are asking here.

You believe me to be the second mafioso.
So you must believe that I was very nice to give speed to the wagon that lynched PrivateI - who would have been my partner if you were right about me.

[Billi bilaði]

I'll say this @billi, I'm not really following the "evidence" of the game like you are because I've done that before and been right, but I have also been wrong. The "evidence" suggests you probably aren't the scum buddy, but the "evidence" also suggests ( at least according to you) that it's me. But it's not me.

I just can't get my head off the setup comment. Maybe cause I literally saw scum get caught with a similar setup comment. That plus your d1 opportunistic voting and trying to direct the doc onto you really bug me.

If I ignore all that then idk who scum is. Maybe random but idk.

I've got to really sit down and read tomorrow.

Please do.
I really feel that I'm going through another innocentvillager argument with a townie.
And I can of course see, that were I in your shoes, then it would be the same dilemma from that standpoint.
All the rest are playing pretty solid games with hardly any mafia-tells, and voting patterns that call out "townie" in a big way.
My suspicion, f.ex., on DDD now, after the re-read yesterday, is that it's just so perfect mafia play, with a lynching of a partner and everything.
I really need very good arguments to put my vote outside the Jake / DDD box.

UNVOTE: Jake from State Farm

[Billi bilaði]

Billi, you said it would take some convincing to place your vote outside of Jake or DDD, is there anything else I can do to convince you that random is scum?

If you were a cop with a guilty-result, then you would just say so as the game would be won. So, I don't think you can know that he is a mafioso; only have a strong suspicion.

So, with only suspicions:
Why did random put the 3rd vote on PrivateI on day 2?
- There was no need for a wagon on "the mafia-partner" at that time.
- - Did he then get stuck on a fellow-wagon?
Did PrivateI then revenge-vote his partner (random) after that wagon got rolling?
- and then move away from him to put suspicion on dawn_to_dusk instead?
Why does random relieve the L-1 pressure of Jake this day (day 3)?
- is it because he is getting heat on him?

[Billi bilaði]

...Billi, are you seriously at "DDD might be scum because he's that damn good"? Because as I said earlier to DTD/jklash that's so much nonsense, no one is so good that they don't slip somehow.

How about: DDD is currently playing so well, that he can be pulling the wool over my eyes, seeing that I believe he might be the strongest player in the game?
Your slip might be that you contribute as little as possible, imho.

[Billi bilaði]

...

[jk and dtd put on the town bench]

...
it's down to DDD, Random, or Billi
...

I fully agree with this.
Look forward to the DDD, random & Billi analysis.

If everybody can give a list of strong townies, then we can focus on selecting from the rest.

[Billi bilaði]

How about: DDD is currently playing so well, that he can be pulling the wool over my eyes, seeing that I believe he might be the strongest player in the game?
Your slip might be that you contribute as little as possible, imho.

I mean if you want to ignore everything else in favor of "he slightly under contributes" knock yourself out but your either vastly overstating the town credentials of everyone else and/or letting paranoia get the better of you.

DTD or Jake are my options for the day and there are compelling reasons for both; the way Jake writes DTD off as town in his latest post is just for awful reasons.

In one post you want me to follow you blindly, in another you are not such a strong player as you never slip.
Well, you often give vague statements of how this and that must be, and expect us to take that on faith, because you don't give much backup to anything.

Please give a detailed description of the "everything else" I'm ignoring. The voting patterns are there for everybody too look at. I've stated my reasons for seeing some people as not-likely candidates for mafia-membership as the patterns don't match.
But your patterns can match very well. I can absolutely see you play throughout the game as something I might try to pull off as a mafioso.
Maybe you have noted that my paranoia is not so high as getting the better of me since my vote is resting comfortably in my pocket.
Please state full cases for whom you want to lynch, and don't just say that I am paranoid for wanting to look at you as a possibility.

[Billi bilaði]

...

Him town reading

anti

is kind of weird

and his explanation about why the

zephyr kill could only come from me

really makes no sense.

JK's

case on

anti

is pretty good

so not sure if I will be able to come up with anything more that he hasn't already.

a: Who is

"anti"? Are you meaning randomidget?

b: I believe

you are misunderstanding me here: I believe someone is setting you up as a prime target by killing Zephyrus. It isolates you from the group (which predators like) and makes you stick out. Therefor I DON'T believe that you would have killed him. (But that also means that he was a good kill for you if you are a mafioso, because I'm taking this stance.)

[Billi bilaði]

Thank you, DDD. This is very good.
Here are my notes on dawn_to_dusk:
- "? Prodded pg.4. Misread rules. Post95 strange. innocent doesn't like his vote P.102. doesn't give a read! First to unvote me.

First to vote Private for lynch.

"

As you say, the only "redeaming" issue I have is him being the first to vote PrivateI.
I need to ISO him again and review with your notes in mind.

[Billi bilaði]

...
2. billi hopped on the wagon for no reasoning which is a scummy thing to do so I decided to pressure him for it. Opportunistic voting = bad

2. Of course you can't reasonably know, but I do that all the time, regardless of alignment.

[Billi bilaði]

I'll put my vote into play before the BB4 on it expires. Lurking is a good enough reason for the first casting.
So, dawn_to_dust, why are you forced to vote to stay alive?
VOTE: dawn_to_dusk

mainly because i misread the rules.

im used to rules on other sites

saying that if you dont vote for 2 days, you will be modkilled. but since the prodding thing is here, that seems unnecessary.

UNVOTE: Private
you havent made any response or action against me voting for you. therefore, i feel that you are civi and do not deserve my vote.

keeping my vote until further notice

In post 86 (above) you are used to rules on other sites...

@Private
My vote on DDD was not based on RM's vote. I would have voted DDD whether or not RM voted him. This is almost shown as I kept my vote on DDD the entirety of day 1.

I am completely inexperienced. I know no signs to find people but I am working on it.

I do not know how to detect slips and my own reads are very weak. Heck, I at the beginning, I thought read meant cop-tell. For that reason, I vote with people who seem most reasonable and vote for people who I am not thinking is town.

I will be sticking around the newbie games for a while for this reason.

(Btw, sorry private, I tried to prevent the hammer long enough for you to post)(this is going to be really awkward if you turn out mafia)

In post 377 you are completely inexperienced...

Oh please enlighten us all with your reasons for your town reads.

I'm curious to hear good reasons...

I only have one town read which is on random which I have already articulated; I have a not scum read on Billi, and a "I'm willing to give a pass for a day because there are two players who actually look like scum to me" to jklash.

You only explained that he's a town read cause the kill was from an experienced player. I don't see anywhere else where you give reasons. Link please?

If that's the only reason, that is a terrible reason. Jk might be 'playing dumb' and acting newbie here since no one knows how he plays, and this way, he can avert attention away from himself.

For all we know, he might be on a different site winning mafia after mafia and we have no idea of this.

I have a town read on jk for other reasons, but if that's your read on him, it's a terrible read.

P.S. If I got the wrong person, same goes for a few others as well.

Might you be playing mafia after mafia on a different site with a long winning streak? ...

:/ DDD's post is hard to counter...

1st, I'll post about me supposedly lynching my scum partner.
Out of the mafia forums, I have played 6 or 7 mafia games. My 1st game, I was scum and was went up against a much better player than me (who was also scum) and won. I lynched a fellow scum (the scum had a concealing role so he wasn't revealed as scum). I was then NK'd by the rogue.

The point of the story is, this was my 1st mafia game and lynching mafia got me killed. That scared me out of lynching scum partners. Period.

I'll do more later, but for now, I must leave.

Why would something that happens in one game "create" a self-opposed ban on you experimenting further with that situation?

You start this game on the lurky side. My first vote in the game is on you for that reason.
You have horrible track record with post about and towards PrivateI, and even start to point that out yourself for us to notice.
The only thin stopping me from believing DDD and vote for you is your jumping off of my wagon on day 2 instead of letting L-1 on me simmer for awhile, and, of all places, go to PrivateI. Hmmm.

I think I'll ISO randomidget next. (Currently only jk and Jake are in my "not to vote for" corner.)

[Billi bilaði]

Great minds think alike.

I'm getting a weak-town read on dtd.

Was lurking day 1, but has been playing well day 2.

dtd is Weak Town!

Vote private

Same reasons as stated by dtd

Getting a strong town read on dtd

, and a weak town on Jake.

dtd is Strong Town! now, and just between posts 286 and 307, and the only things dtd has done in between is vote for PrivateI and claiming not wanting to read 12 pages.
Going from wt to st on this seams to tell that random knows that PrivateI is mafia. Eh?

...
Please can everyone state who you would like to lynch (can be more than one).

Mine is Private or Jake. Jake is a less solid scumread

, ...

Here in post 316 PrivateI is top lynch candidate for random.

OMGUS. I don't need to absolve responsibility for the vote,

my strongest town read was already on you.

But a few posts later, in 324, just after voting PrivateI and getting a revenge vote from PrivateI, random claims that PrivateI has his strongest town read!!!

jklash, we still have a couple more days of discussion so don't hammer yet.

Doesn't want a hammer on PrivateI...

He clearly isn't going to post. I have realized this and so have no problem with hammering. I have a decent idea of who is scum, but need to see the flip to see if I am correct.

I think I am organized enough to proceed.

... but 12 hours later is ready for a hammer.

UNVOTE: Jake
I don't think he is scum. I really don't know with Jake.
VOTE: dtd

The guy whose I distrust the most.

Where did this distrust come from? dtd got to be strong town based on a vote that proved to be a mafia-member vote.

DTD is the only player deeply in my lynch pool (I did vote him earlier I'm not just sheeping).
We are approaching the deadline and so

LYNCH DTD

And here?

I think I would rather follow jklash12 on a randomidget wagon, than DDD on dawn_to_dusk wagon. (In small part because jklash12 is a much stronger town read than DDD.)

[Billi bilaði]

...
If I was setting you up I wouldn't have killed Zephyr. I would have killed Zephyr if I was trying to set up DDD or billi. I think it would make sense for a player with not much suspicion going there way to kill Zephyr.

This doesn't cut it with me.

[Billi bilaði]

For those in the "we have plenty of time" camp we are now down to two and a half days and while a no lynch wouldn't be the worst thing in the world given we have six players it should not be a goal.

I have a crazy busy weekend ahead of me, so I'm cramming in as much analysis today as I can.

So, DDD, why dawn over random?

[Billi bilaði]

And, DDD, that is why I wouldn't hesitate much to hammer you today.

PS: I'm not sure if you had license to let that secret out of the bag.

[Billi bilaði]

VOTE: dawn_to_dusk

[Billi bilaði]

That puts dawn_to_dusk at L-1 !!!

[Billi bilaði]

I defenately didn't take randoms "call to arms" as a vote.
If I just hammered dawn_to_dusk, then that is egg on my face.

[Billi bilaði]

it should be

DTD - DDD & Billi
Random - JK & DTD

Not voting: Jake & random

Well, you still got your vote on me, Jake!?!

I had made an error in my notes, so I suddenly thought I had lynched dawn. Well, it was only the 3rd vote, if randoms is counted.

But, interesting, that this is the second L-1 on day 3, and both are exactly the same: DDD, random, Billi. And, both times random jumps off.

jklash12: might you consider that DDD's read on random is truer than yours? Can you read dawn and DDD and see who you would prefer over random?

[Billi bilaði]

The following are PrivateI's interactions with other players, in the order he first interacted with them.
The second column (Read) are the reads he gave on day 2. (The numbers in front is the order he gave them in.)
The 3rd column (No. of posts) is how many direct interaction, and then indirect interactions in braces.
The remaining columns are the numbers of the post the interaction took place in.

Players	Read	No. of posts	Post no.
Innocent	xxx	4	21	40	117	190
random	1: Town	5 (+2)	43	125	153	(183)	(323)	371	372
Zeph	6: Town	4	73	116	153	173
Billi	4: Town	4 (+1)	74	153	212	241	(372)
DDD	7: Null	3 (+2)	(116)	153	183	(190)	280
jklash12	3: Lean Mafia	2	253	369
Jake	5: Null->Town	1 (+2)	(253)	(372)	375
dawn	2: Prob. Mafia	1	323

Interesting that DDD is smack in the middle.

The top 4 interactions are all Town read for PrivateI, and 3 of them are conf.towns from my point of view.
Now, do we take to DDD's pow that PrivateI would have had the least interaction with his partner?

[Billi bilaði]

a lot of you

wont take me seriously so im quite tempted to vote myself, effectively lynching myself.

i would have, then realised we still have a day to go. many will disagree with this move but i feel that it is the only way to get people to not skip over this, thinking i am scum.

The following are PrivateI's interactions with other players, in the order he first interacted with them.
...

Interesting that DDD is smack in the middle.

...
Now, do we take to DDD's pow that PrivateI would have had the least interaction with his partner?

disregarding jake who was most likely read for different reasons,

this to me seems like you are trying to say that the amount of times private has interacted with people (directly) rates them the same way

. look, random was stated town and had the most interactions with the scum. i had the least, and i am rated most mafia. now look at all in between. it seems to be that the more interactions private had with people determines how scummy they seem. which makes no sense at all and is seeming quite stupid from my point of view. i can see where DDD is coming from with his thought on less interactions makes more mafia possibility, but i am in no state to say anything for certain as the flip might be true: the most interactions are the scum.
now for a second, lets assume that what you said in that table is legit. private quoted me 3 times so im not thinking you did it that way,

im thinking you did it with direct interactions. why not count 371 for both me and jk?

it seems you were skipping it on purpose since both me and jk were on the bottom. this is in no regards to the content of the post, just the fact that the post existed.

1) Awww. Not the self pity card. I take everybody seriously (who play the game), but everybody can't be telling the truth.
2) Why did you disregard my comment of DDD being smack in the middle, and the question of if we should believe him? (And I think I put up a little case against you a few posts earlier. No comment on that ?) OK, I did vote for you, and you are at L-1, but maybe mainly because we really need L-1's at this stage. (And we really would need more of them, but I don't think there will be time.)
3) I am visualizing DDD's arguments against you, and not (as such) making a case against you. I visualized innocents lie after PrivateI raised the questions and asked for backup. Now I visualized this one. (It would be nice if PrivateI and DDD would have done so themselves. But I wanted that info, and when I had collected it, the best place to store it is in the game.)
4) Because post 371 is a direct answer to random, and you and jk are just part of the answers. That I don't count as interaction with you too. (But you have pointed it out, so all players can note that if they want to.)

PS: All in all, this defense is too weak, in my opinion, for me to retract my vote just now. Now I need to check out how much time until nightfall, and see how much I can participate for the remaining time...

[Billi bilaði]

OK. Almost 28 hours remaining. So, I will probably be online same time tomorrow, but not much longer than the hour stamp on this message. Hopefully everyone will be participating on the last day of the day.

But, since I can log on tomorrow night (my time), I'll...
UNVOTE: dawn_to_dusk

[Billi bilaði]

I don't know.
Now I really want to lynch DDD.
Well, off to bed. Let's see who I want to lynch tomorrow.

[Billi bilaði]

Nah. I'll have it like this for the night:
VOTE: DDD

[Billi bilaði]

So you'll kill a L-1 wagon for a temporary vote that has no chance of getting a lynch, bravisimo.

Thank you.

[Billi bilaði]

2) Why did you disregard my comment of DDD being smack in the middle, and the question of if we should believe him? (And I think I put up a little case against you a few posts earlier. No comment on that ?) OK, I did vote for you, and you are at L-1, but maybe mainly because we really need L-1's at this stage. (And we really would need more of them, but I don't think there will be time.)

And I don't get why you think smack in the middle matters. First, are you suggesting I precisely controlled the number of interactions so that I'd fall exactly in the middle when I had no idea anyone would even look at that factor numerically? And second, what the heck does it mean? I've never heard anyone make anyone make an argument that scum partners interact "a middle amount"; commonly the try to avoid each other but their are plenty of exceptions but in those cases you make an argument about the interactions not just that they interacted "some".

Once again you come with answers that make my skin crawl. (I would highlight, but my computer cord decided to die on me, and I'm trying to do this on my phone for the first time.)
You are smack in the middle in more than one sence, as you are a NULL read as well as in the interaction middle. But of course you twist this to make the "accuser" feel a bit stupid. Well, nothing more on this post since it is a bit difficult with a small screen.

[Billi bilaði]

Ok we are at L-1 with random. Can we please have one more vote to get us a lynch.

No. Because you are too focused on him without compelling enough evidence for my taste.

I'm not a fan of dawn's recent responses either, so I'll move over there now, but with a wish that we can move over to DDD before nightfall.

Now, how can I vote without the bracket button? I'll figure that out before I vote.

[Billi bilaði]

VOTE: dawn_to_dusk

[Billi bilaði]

That's 3am for me, so I won't be around then.

[Billi bilaði]

Counterclaim, anyone? What does jklash12 say now? (Maybe I should stay up a little longer!)

[Billi bilaði]

UNVOTE: dawn_to_dusk

[Billi bilaði]

randomidget: please give us all your trackings for the game now.

[Billi bilaði]

That is, give us both of them.

[Billi bilaði]

VOTE: DDD

[Billi bilaði]

I don't agree, DDD. A lynch now is better. Much better.
You defenately didn't make me feel stupid. But it seems like you try that often enough. There is a difference, to me at least.
I am going to wake up for this, because the current status is too important.

[Billi bilaði]

I take that back. No lynch today is better, if I'm thinking correctly.
I'll unvote in next post, and then think it thorougly over...

[Billi bilaði]

UNVOTE: DDD

[Billi bilaði]

But of course you twist this to make the "accuser" feel a bit stupid.

If I made you feel stupid it because your point was stupid and you can't defend it. Hell, your "DDD was in the middle a lot" argument which makes no sense is basically the only argument anyone has put up against me. I also have no idea why you or anyone else forgets that I started the PrivateI wagon on Day 1. Sure, I think I'm good, I'm not good enough that I'll give up my scum partner on day one.

VOTE: No Lynch

There's not going to be enough time to sort out the claim and allow for the possibility of a counterclaim; the best thing to do is to get as much information from Random as we can today and then just go to night and see what happens.

For your partner to keep you at null read and make sure to have some interaction with you makes perfect sense and is easily arguable. Might not be the case, but you not seeing that makes you much more suspicious.

[Billi bilaði]

Mislynch today would mean that day 4 is last chance.
Nolynch today means that we can mislynch day 4 and still get to play day 5.
Am I right in this?

VOTE: No lynch

[Billi bilaði]

It's arguable in the sense that you can paint almost any interaction scum have whether it be positive, negative, or null as scummy if you want to. As far as I can tell you've yet to explain why your suggested theory is better than any other suggested theory; it certainly is a theory but in my experience it's not the most typical scum behavior (avoidance is) and it completely ignores my behavior (where I tried to get him lynched first thing day one).

Because PrivateI tried hard to point us towards random and dawn with his vote jumping on day 2.
jklash12 has been a solid town read for me until today. His hammet on PrivateI is the "get out of jail free card". So, it is basically between you and Jake, DDD, and you have played a much more solid game in the sense that you could be a careful mafioso.
Voting for a lurking partner is exactly what I would do, so, me believing that you are an experienced player tells me you are a likely mafioso.

[Billi bilaði]

It's arguable in the sense that you can paint almost any interaction scum have whether it be positive, negative, or null as scummy if you want to. As far as I can tell you've yet to explain why your suggested theory is better than any other suggested theory; it certainly is a theory but in my experience it's not the most typical scum behavior (avoidance is) and it completely ignores my behavior (where I tried to get him lynched first thing day one).

If you look back at post 560, you see that Jake and jklash12 are next on the "ignore" list for PrivateI. So, if your avoidance theory is correct, and randoms clearence of dawn is also correct, wouldn't it be nice if you made a case against either or both of them?

[Billi bilaði]

If there is another tracker out there, or a role that says that there cannot be a tracker in the game, then come out and the game is won.
If he comes out and is mislynched, town wins as we can then lynch random tomorrow, otherwise random is lynched today (or tomorrow, in case of no lynch), and we win.
If no one counterclaims, random is confirmed!

[Billi bilaði]

Not good, jk. Why no thougts on the matter at hand?

[Billi bilaði]

DDD, IC question about this tracker results. Are randoms thoughts about his night1 tracking correct by the rules of the tracker?
(My initial thought is that you go down on the suspect list, but that might be wrong thinking.)

[Billi bilaði]

As the remaining mafioso now knows for sure, I am the 1-shot Bulletproof Townie. Hence a big part of my playstyle. Tried to make the mafia believe there still was a doctor so that random would be spared, but, that didn't work.
So, in my book, me and dawn are confirmed. jklash12 is the most unlikely of the 3 remaining, because of his hammering PrivateI - but he is not excempt from investigation at all.
DDD is next, mostly by gut, and Jake is therefor my prime target. I won't vote him yet, though.

[Billi bilaði]

As the remaining mafioso now knows for sure, I am the 1-shot Bulletproof Townie. Hence a big part of my playstyle. Tried to make the mafia believe there still was a doctor so that random would be spared, but, that didn't work.
So, in my book, me and dawn are confirmed. jklash12 is the most unlikely of the 3 remaining, because of his hammering PrivateI - but he is not excempt from investigation at all.
DDD is next, mostly by gut, and Jake is therefor my prime target. I won't vote him yet, though.

You think hammering a scum buddy is not possible? Cause I assure you scum can and have hammered their partners before.

It makes you look innocent that you never seem to read my posts. I have stated time and again that I dont hesitate to lynch my mafiapartners. I think a mafioso would have noticed that.

[Billi bilaði]

Since we have 1 mislynch left, I would just like to find the least likely mafioso of the 3, and then focus on lynching the other two in order, if we get it wrong today.
Currently I think Jake is the least likely, so I would join wagons on the other two at some point. But there is no hurry.
I think I'll be "quiet in the corner" while jk and DDD talk things out for awhile.

[Billi bilaði]

But I was suspicious of him. I'm not suspicious of myself.

I didn't mean day three I meant Wednesday aka like five posts ago.

Since we have 1 mislynch left, I would just like to find the least likely mafioso of the 3, and then focus on lynching the other two in order, if we get it wrong today.
Currently I think Jake is the least likely, so I would join wagons on the other two at some point. But there is no hurry.
I think I'll be "quiet in the corner" while jk and DDD talk things out for awhile.

No. If you care at all about this game you will interact with me so that I can convince you of the truth, I'm not going to persuade jklash he's scum if I decide he's more likely to be scum than Jake and he's not the one I need to convince anyways so why would I talk things out with him?

As I am, you should be happy to hang if you are pretty certain that the last mafioso hangs no later than tomorrow. So, I'm willing to discuss with you which one of the 3 of you is innocent. After that has been established I might be willing to follow your voting today.

[Billi bilaði]

If we mislynch today either me or dawn will be nightkilled. Is there anyway for the townies to affect the nk-selection to our benefit?

[Billi bilaði]

It depends on which of me and dawn will be more likely to go with the mafioso.

[Billi bilaði]

...No. If you care at all about this game you will interact with me so that I can convince you of the truth, I'm not going to persuade jklash he's scum if I decide he's more likely to be scum than Jake and he's not the one I need to convince anyways so why would I talk things out with him?

With 150 posts (6 pages) I believe I care a bit about this game.
But my thoughts at this point would only help the mafioso to wiggle and twist.
So, I'll interact with you reactively, and not be putting forward half-baked thoughts that might confuse things.

You know that either or both of jk and Jake are townies.
Same goes for them.
So, you 3 deciding upon which of you 3 is the most likely townie would give us a lynch pool of 2 that should be a very sweet deal for the 4 townies?

[Billi bilaði]

As I am, you should be happy to hang if you are

pretty certain

that the last mafioso hangs no later than tomorrow. So, I'm willing to discuss with you which one of the 3 of you is innocent. After that has been established I might be willing to follow your voting today.

I am certain to pretty certain of about three things; 1) I'm town, 2) You and DTD are town, 3) I don't trust you and DTD to make the right decision without me holding your hand; so no I will never be happy with my lynch in these circumstances.

If we mislynch today either me or dawn will be nightkilled. Is there anyway for the townies to affect the nk-selection to our benefit?

Not that I can think of.

VOTE: Unvote dtdOk, im town tracker. Also just wanted to say that I have been really stupid. Last night I tracked dtd. He couldnt have killed Zephyr.
VOTE: Vote DDD he is the player I would most like dead at the end of the day.

I'm an idiot.

Like literally scum cannot be this incompetent, right? It'd be mind-boggling. Furthermore Jake has completely given up any pretense of giving a fuck, earlier in D4 he was chiding Billi for not providing reasons and then he provides none for his vote? I imagine it's much more likely that it's Jake trying to run a scam than jk and his attitude seems to be an attempt to parrot Billi's attitude so we can even tack pandering onto the charges.

But my thoughts at this point would only help the mafioso to wiggle and twist.
So, I'll interact with you reactively, and not be putting forward half-baked thoughts that might confuse things.

You know that either or both of jk and Jake are townies.
Same goes for them.
So, you 3 deciding upon which of you 3 is the most likely townie would give us a lynch pool of 2 that should be a very sweet deal for the 4 townies

So your logic is, we have two confirmed town players but instead of letting them dictate the day we should instead put it in the hands of two unconfirmed town players and a scum player to dictate how the day will go. Why would you willingly turn over any power to scum? Seize the game by the fucking throat and make sure it's the town who dictate how the day will go and not scum.

You just love to make me dislike you.
I have stated my preferences and my reasons so it is the turn of you guys to convince me if I'm wrong. It is not my job to restate my reasons over and over again so you can sit back and tell me how much of a fool I am.
If I need you to hold my hand I'll ask. You don't need to offer, and I'll certainly not allow you to grab it without a leave.
Now go play the game with the others, and I'll do what I godamn please!

[Billi bilaði]

"3) I don't trust you and DTD to make the right decision without me holding your hand; so no I will never be happy with my lynch in these circumstances."

He's asking us to let him direct us. That's how I took it at least.

And it's not the first time he wants us to follow him.

[Billi bilaði]

So, DDD, your thoughts about Jake being a likely townie because he seems to be reading the game too carelessly? Of the top of my head I can cite two instances where he is not registering what has been said (I do hand my mafia-partners if I deem it good, and therefor can believe that jk would do the same), and not understanding until weeks later what is being said (that he was being isolated from the heard by a nightkill).
Am I wrong to get the feeling that I'm doing a repeat of innocent if I start to focus on Jake as a mafioso?

[Billi bilaði]

Sorry. It should be "... (I do HANG...) in the post above.

[Billi bilaði]

I'm not reading the game carelessly. The game is auto win from my viewpoint. I mean if you really want to put effort in to be right today I can but I don't have motivation to. If DDD isn't scum then it's jk

Nobody had really made a good case for why I'm scum, but they can't cause I'm not.

I beg to differ, but I know I won't change your mind about this, so, whatever.

[Billi bilaði]

My original suspicions of you all stand, as your defences have only been that it couldn't be you "just because".
But then my thoughts that it couldn't be you, you refute. So I probably should go back to point the finger at you. Hmmm.

[Billi bilaði]

What is the difference between these 3 votes:

...
~~

VOTE: PrivateI

I am actually not against DDD's private vote. I like it. Looking at Private's posts He has just asked questions in his last couple posts and not much of substance as far as trying to find scum. This would be a good tactic for scum because 1. It gives you more posts and looks like you are active 2. Looks like to other town that you are trying to figure out the game.

VOTE: Private

vote private I

Well, the only one with a reason is jklash12's, and DDD uses that later to back up his vote.

PrivateI doesn't respond to any of these votes, (but does respond to mine, which was the 4th one on this wagon, and put him to L-1).

Later PrivateI interacts with DDD to tell him he loves him as a player (post 153).
Even later he interacts with jklash12.
(Didn't read far enough this time around to find interaction with Jake. Need to review my interaction table.)

[Billi bilaði]

Prodding fused_shadows.

Edit: And PrivateI

Any likelyhead that both mafiosos were prodded in the same post?

[Billi bilaði]

Soon there will be half the day done, with nothing much to show for it, and then at the end DDD will be unhappy if I retract my vote from an L-1.
So, I believe we can easily continue this day with the

status at L-1

(and DDD won't be so unhappy should I retract):

VOTE: DDD

[Billi bilaði]

So, DDD, your thoughts about Jake being a likely townie because he seems to be reading the game too carelessly? Of the top of my head I can cite two instances where he is not registering what has been said (I do hand my mafia-partners if I deem it good, and therefor can believe that jk would do the same), and not understanding until weeks later what is being said (that he was being isolated from the heard by a nightkill).
Am I wrong to get the feeling that I'm doing a repeat of innocent if I start to focus on Jake as a mafioso?

I don't think that's accurate at all; if he's a bad player then he's a bad player as town and scum. I have played with him before and he has plenty of site experience so I believe it's much more likely that he's affecting such behavior because he believes it'll sway you into thinking just that.

Bb: Thank you. It is good information. I haven't looked at Jakes backlog, but I will try to find time for that now.

...

Soon there will be half the day done, with nothing much to show for it, and then at the end DDD will be unhappy if I retract my vote from an L-1.
So, I believe we can easily continue this day with the

status at L-1

(and DDD won't be so unhappy should I retract):

VOTE: DDD

No, instead I'll be unhappy with you right now and would really like to call you all sort of names with a liberal sprinkling of curse words for good measures. But yeah, this is awful.

Bb: But I don't think L-1's are that awful in general, unless you know for sure there are players out there that will quickhammer by default no matter their alignment. I don't think there is such a player left; at least not that isn't currently on your wagon.

So DDD, why do you think we should give power to you. Not why do you WANT us to give power to you, why SHOULD we give it to you.

Btw, saying 'cos I'm town' isn't a viable response

I'm pretty sure my record stacks up better than anyone else's in calling town and scum correctly in this game. Billi wanted to know the difference between the PrivateI votes on day one? The difference is my vote was first, it wasn't influenced because of the popularity of the wagon, it wasn't a product of convenience it was because in a vacuum I thought PrivateI most likely to be scum.

And do you see where Jake says he'll gladly bus his scum partner well let me tell you something about me, I almost never bus my scum partner, the only times when I do that is when they are literally confirmed as scum due to power roles.

About the only mistake that I made was pushing you yesterday instead of Jake but even that is a relative town tell because it would've been super easy for me to sheep jk's random read but instead I trusted my own town read on him until he was pretty much the only option.

Bb: Thank you wery much for this red part above. I like this very much, and think it is much better than word-fencing.
At least, it looks to me that my L-1 vote on you is giving much better results than the 5 days before that.
Hence...

UNVOTE: DDD

[Billi bilaði]

Oh and to add to the last point as to why I'm town and should be listed to, today I've tried to get the confirmed town players involved and pissed them off instead of trying to hide in the background because I think it's generally better for the town though if it's drawing town votes on me maybe I was wrong.

Well, you might be depending on me being a fickle voter.

So why not jklash12 over Jake?
jklash is much better at lurking than Jake, and seems to do it every nightfall.
His reluctance to respond to questions before the No Lynch was not good in my book. (Otherwise he's played a solid game.)

[Billi bilaði]

Do you mean twilight because no one posts at night?

I didn't respond because I was offline while you guys decided on the no lynch.

Yup. Twilight. (Are you doing something tonight, or are you doing something to-twilight? )

Post 625 Sun May 04, 2014 3:51

am

- jklash12 "At this point my vote wouldn't matter anyway. Looks like we aren't lynching anyone."
Post 633 Sun May 04, 2014 4:09

pm

- jklash12 "My thoughts didn't matter because you guys just no lynched when I was offline."
Post 634 Sun May 04, 2014 4:13 pm
- jklash12 "My thoughts were pretty obvious that I wished we lynched random."
Post 636 Sun May 04, 2014 4:44 pm
- Ser Arthur Dayne [Nightfall]

You had plenty of time to communicate about very important revelations of random and dawn. You chose to lay low.
Not responding just because it was twilight is not good enough for me.

VOTE: jklash12

[Billi bilaði]

...I already laid out my thoughts on both players in separate posts in regards to them. Two big conclusions, back to the Zephyr kill I'm still going back to the experienced player theory. That's just not a kill a player like jklash is going to make most of the time, maybe he saw something I didn't and we'll find out a reason in post-game but for now I think it's vastly more likely Jake made that kill than jk. And second, have you seen how oblivious jk looks today? Jake might be on this big "pretending I don't care" kick

but jk literally looks like he doesn't know what's going on half the time

, maybe he's faking it but I tend to believe it's sincerity over Jake's obvious fakery.

And I don't find any significance in your "doesn't talk in twilight" theory, I'm pretty sure it's something I don't generally do regardless of alignment so I have a hard time assigning any credence to it.

But the other half of the time suggests to me he knows it pretty well.
And when you don't talk in twilight repeatedly in the same game, even when you have questions on you about things that overthrow your statements, I think that is worth looking into.

My experince shows me pros and cons to all of you three guys, but you have the luxury of having played with Jake before.
If you are this certain about your hunch, is there anything to wait for in voting him?

But, I'll follow you based on the evidence you provided about not going after your partners. So, if you vote for Jake, I will too.

[Billi bilaði]

OK. Good that you've played with jklash12 before also. I'll look at his backlog when I get time. (I looked at Jake's and saw that he, in a couple of years, had overtaken you by quite a margin, so, I back off from reading him for the time being.)

Yeah, I'm probably way too impatient to wait for things to speed up. But I still believe that votes give more action than passive waiting.
I'll try to chill.

[Billi bilaði]

...My experince shows me pros and cons to all of you three guys, but you have the luxury of having played with Jake before...

As I said above, Jake, I see pros and cons with all of you. So for me, today is a coin toss.

VOTE: Jake from State Farm

[Billi bilaði]

can either of you guys give me a reasoning why you are voting me at least? I honestly don't know why people suspect me cause

I have literally done nothing scummy all game

As I have stated a number of times, I don't fully agree with the red part. But I see your point.

My reasoning is the following:
DDD's statement (backed with a quote that can be researched) that he doesn't bus his mafia-partners, currently puts him in the chokolate-corner (icelandic children game reference).
That means the toss is between you and jklash12, and, as has been stated, he has been a bit more townie than you, Jake.

I can still see reasons to vote for jklash12, but I stand by my convictions that L-1's are more good than not, and currently with little risk to the igloos.

[Billi bilaði]

I noticed this, and took it into consideration.

[Billi bilaði]

UNVOTE: Jake from State Farm

[Billi bilaði]

UNVOTE: Jake from State Farm

Are you really going to reward "hey I was going to make an argument but what's the point"? Like I get that jklash's last post is super skeevy because of how coldly calculating it is but is it really worse than someone making no effort whatsoever and isn't the fact that he at least made the argument a positive sign relatively?

No. But I'm not going to be the only one voting him at the moment.

[Billi bilaði]

Why am I scum DDD. Point me to your case or make one.

Says the player who stated: "I don't make cases".

I still don't buy into the logic that the burden of asking questions should be on me and dawn.
Out of the 3 of you there are 2 townies how should be asking questions just as hard as other townies.

[Billi bilaði]

I'm thinking DDD is pretty townie. Which is good as, if we mislynch today, we have a much better chance at winning the next day. The main question here is: who do I think is scum right now?

And the answer is jake. I haven't really been interacting with him much but between him and jk, jk is seeming more town. Still, if jake flips town, we can lynch jk tomorrow which puts a lot of pressure on him to pin DDD. Which at this point, is incredibly hard to do.

I won't vote yet, but the point is made.

So you pretty much won't vote DDD tomorrow?

If you are going to do this I would rather lynch DDD today because if it turns out jake is town then we would be screwed. We would be screwed because then DDD would NK billi and then get you to vote me tomorrow for his scum win. If you think like this it would be better to lynch DDD today and if he's town we can lynch jake scum tomorrow.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DDD

So, DDD, in my mind this is a very townie post from jklash12. Reason: He's implicating that he can't night kill. So, if he is the remaining mafioso, then it is pretty shrewd (to lure me in at least). And it also doesn't rhyme with him "being lost" on this day. (Don't remember how you phrased it.)
So, should Jake be lynched today, this would be a strong gut-feeling-argument to vote you tomorrow.
(If I would take this gut-feeling at face value, I could just as well hammer you now and then Jake is gone tomorrow. I don't think your reluctance to vote spells particularly townie.)

So, what am I saying?
Well: Why shouldn't I just post "intent to hammer" now?

[Billi bilaði]

Billi, I'll be honest, I really don't know what you're saying. How is jklash implying that he can't night kill any different from any of his other posts where he claims to be town and that me or Jake must be scum because of that and how is it any different from Jake or I saying we're town which we've both done several times and thus implying that we can't make the night kill? Because I'll be honest, I don't see a difference.

Bb: I'll have to live with that, that you don't understand me. It happens.

And again your post isn't super clear but I think everything later in your post rests upon that first assumption which I just explained is a bad assumption. But let's take apart the next part, how is my reluctance to vote a scum thing? If I was scum why wouldn't I take the opportunity that was already presented and hammer Jake? At that point I had both you and DTD on my side and would've gotten my preferred lynch; surely it would've been better for hypothetical scum-me to just hammer instead of letting the day extend for no good reason where those things could fall apart, yeah?

Bb: Yes, you could have hammered, but if you are a mafioso, you would not have wanted to hammer too quickly. That has the danger of luring too many votes the day after.

So if the final line is a threat towards me then I've already explained why the assumptions that lead you there are wrong but also you already read and agreed with the reasons I presented why I was town and furthermore, I'm the one who has presented the most compelling reasons why Jake is scum and even reasons why jk might be scum. I'll agree that there's probably not much to be gained at this point, I've poked and prodded where I've wanted to and if you want to set DTD up for intent to hammer I'll set you up.

VOTE: Jake

Of course it is a threat. But maybe not such a strong one, because I just could have hammered without a comment and let the rest of the game play out.

Nice voting :
VOTE: Jake from State Farm

[Billi bilaði]

Nope. You were down to zero votes after I retracted mine earlier.

[Billi bilaði]

So. It's L-1, I believe.

But I would ask for a warning before a hammer.
I still want to find time to read back on jklash12 at least. I hope I get time for that this weekend.

[Billi bilaði]

jklash12: From post 100 in game 1474 (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5664883):

"I make sure my vote is on a scum read at the end of a day. I like to switch it around to other people because like you said up in that quote, your vote is your most powerful scumhunting tool. If you don't switch it around to other players you are not utilizing this tool. sometimes you even have to vote players you don't find incredibly scummy just so that you can better understand them. I don't think you can find scum if your vote stays on the first person you find scummy because opinions are bound to change."

What has changed for you?
You have:
2 votes on day 1.
2 votes on day 2.
1 vote on day 3.

Although, you certainly made sure your vote was on a mafioso at the end of days 1 and 2.

And your first 2 games, you give tells on everybody. You have not done so this game.

Is this your first game as a mafioso on this site?

[Billi bilaði]

Why are you still alive, DDD?
Jake as a mafioso would surely have nightkilled you, if I'm reading his and yours history correctly.

[Billi bilaði]

I didn't say "history together". Jake has super experience on this site as Jake, and more if you take into account that he is an alt.
You both have wiki pages, and I don't believe he hasn't studied yours.
That would tell him "DDD must not live to endgame" if he is the mafioso.
Zeph is not a wise kill for him, and I found a game where you do such a kill (albeit for a different reason from what I was thinking).
If you are townie, them, I would believe that jklash12 would be more likely to let you live, as he has a shorter history here.

You are playing a much stronger game than Jake imo, and I've skimmed a game where Jake plays just like he does here as a mafioso just about to be hanged. But I have myself played just as strongly as you have in games where I know the players as well as you might know Jake and jklash12, and talked myself to victory. Hence my super suspicion of you.

[Billi bilaði]

PS: I look forward (not) to see if I get a "stupid player" stamp in your wiki. I might be heading for that with my "flaky voting". (No matter that my jump off of dawn yesterday was spot on right, which gave us one extra day to pick 1 out of 3. You sounded a bit desperate when I jumped off of that wagon.)

[Billi bilaði]

...
Zeph is not a wise kill for him,

and I found a game where you do such a kill

(albeit for a different reason from what I was thinking)...

Now that I'm on my computer, and not on my phone, I can post my notes on this:
Newbie 1094: DDD NKs out of lynch pool, leaving only 1 player alive that didn't participate in the lynching. Page 27.

[Billi bilaði]

Was that a scum lynch or town lynch?

I was specially looking for a game where you were mafia and lynched.
Found this one:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=23424

PS: See especially the last line of post 350: "I can't even defend myself cause there is nothing to defend myself from."

PPS: Did you ever get an answer to this question in post 5: "Side note, how do you change the words under your avatar?"

[Billi bilaði]

PPPS: Name of the game is "Micro 33: City of Death - Game Over".

[Billi bilaði]

Was that a scum lynch or town lynch?

Or are you meaning if the DDD game was a scum lynch or town lynch?
Then it was DDD and his mafia partner were both on the lynching wagon of a townie, and NK'd out of that pool.

So, Jake: Had you studied DDD's wiki before night 1?

[Billi bilaði]

Postst 769 & 770 in game Mini 1434shows me you know a little bit about NK'ing out of the lynch pool, Jake

[Billi bilaði]

Micro 151 is also interesting for me, to see how you, Jake, stay out of lynches (as I've noted in the other games also), and then NK's out of the lynch-pools also.

[Billi bilaði]

Postst 769 & 770 in game Mini 1434shows me you know a little bit about NK'ing out of the lynch pool, Jake

you should look at the scum QT, the kill off the wagon wasn't even my choice I just went along with the suggestion. Same for the earlier kill on Majiffy.

I didn't find the QuickTopic when I was looking for it (but was it this game or the other one?).

[Billi bilaði]

Micro 151 is also interesting for me, to see how you, Jake, stay out of lynches (as I've noted in the other games also), and then NK's out of the lynch-pools also.

the NK was chosen by my partner N1, N2 I nk'd to try and out the RBer (it worked) and N3 I killed the RBer so him being off the wagon was just coincidence.

That you seem to repeatedly stay out of the lynch mobs for day 1, and even day 2, was the more interesting part for me, and rhymes with you staying out of the lynch in this game. (But then I haven't looked at that scenario for you when you are town.)

[Billi bilaði]

My look through your town-games doesn't start too well for you:

Jake takes part in all lynches as townie:
Micro 180.
Same in:
Micro 164.

And now I'm out of time for the moment.

[Billi bilaði]

Mewbie 1468 is a newbie game from this year. 2014 is when I changed the way I play btw.

I was on every lynch. Day 1 ended with a nl though.

And in Mini 1549 where you are also a mafioso, in a 2014 game, you stay off of day 1 lynch.
(Jeez, it's tedious to find your current games without a wiki help.)

[Billi bilaði]

You got to look at 2014 games.

As I said in my last post: it's a lot of work to isolate your 2014 games, so I started by finding games through your wiki.

Also not sure why you looking at me being on or off wagons. If you see me off wagons as scum and I'm on them as town, I was on one here and off one here.

For the games I researched from your wiki, you were very consistance in staying off as mafia and on as town.
Now I've found a few of 2014 games, and I've seen you have changed a bit, but still you sometimes go back to your old ways.
So, no written-in-stone conclusions, but it's easy too lean more towards you being a mafioso.

Now. Should I watch a movie on tv, or keep on wading through your post-history...

... I think the movie, as I guess the rest of the players are doing exactly that.

[Billi bilaði]

Ah. Sorry. Forgot. You were on the wagon on day 1. That reverts my conclusion. Right.

[Billi bilaði]

(But, it goes towards you being a mafioso under your new playstyle, instead of the old one. Hmmm.)

[Billi bilaði]

So, what is your experience (and conclusions) playing with DDD?
Can either of you point me to the game(s) you've played together?

[Billi bilaði]

(And I still haven't found a 2014 game where you are town.)

[Billi bilaði]

So you wouldn't have policy-nk'd DDD as I would have thought reading the wiki's?

[Billi bilaði]

DDD Result Record: 20-6 (Survived/Endgamed)

[Billi bilaði]

...
As for not giving reads on everybody, I am not sure why I haven't this game because I usually do that. Which 2 games are you referring to because I have played more than 2 games on this site. I think I have completed 5 or 6 games...

You have 10 finished games. (Not 5 or 6.)
I was talking about the ones I found in your Wiki.

[Billi bilaði]

DDD Result Record: 20-6 (Survived/Endgamed)

I am not impressed or intimidated by win/loss percentages, though I do typically try and lynch people I perceive as a threat when I am scum cause I want people listening to me not them

Then I remember something DDD said somewhere in the line of: "Why werent they more suspicious of me as an IC".
It also makes me conclude that you killed Zeph looking for a doctor.

[Billi bilaði]

Exactly. And that ruins my case against you killing Zeph.

[Billi bilaði]

At least, it looks to me that my L-1 vote on you is giving much better results than the 5 days before that.

Not really, the majority of that response and the useful stuff was in response to DTD. That it was useful in persuading you was helpful but it was DTD who did the useful thing and engaged instead of your random vote throwing around.
...

Too bad dawn has stopped engaging.

dawn, you might want to look at rule no. 9:
"9) Prods will be given out every 72 hours. If a player does not post within 24 hours after being prodded, I will start search for a replacement. If you post before a replacement is found (that is, when I make a public announcement of a replacement), you may keep your slot. Also, if you have to be prodded too many times, I'm force-replacing you. If you know beforehand that you will be out for sometime, declare a V/LA on thread or by PMing me."

You've passed the prod limit.

Is there anything holding you back from a lynch-vote (or a vote to the third party in question), or should I just move over to DDD to get the final-day party started?