MS Fantasy Camp 2: Reaper's Tale! (Finished!)

[Cerulean]

Actually, maybe they just killed Shadoweh because she was one of the few slots who still gave a shit about the game?

[Cerulean]

yay we're pink!

[Cerulean]

holy crap that's pink.

[Cerulean]

This is a good old fashioned prod dodge.

Also, some things came up for empire, and it might be just me for at least a little while.

I'm still v/la, family is still here, I'll be back tomorrow or thursday.

[Cerulean]

I'm playing skype mafia don't prod me.

[Cerulean]

So, I am re-reading the game and thinking about it and I am not sure how it makes sense. If I am right about my townreads on Nero Cain, Zdenek, Cerulean, and UT, that leaves two scum among Reck, Tim Howard, Plum, and Nobody Special. The problem is that unless Reck is scum, I can't see any of the other players making the night kills that they are making. {Sixty, Plessiez, Chamber, Shadoweh}. For one, I'd expect Cerulean to be night killed pretty quickly possibly on N1 since they are the largest threat in this game to any scumteam.

The Plessiez kill on N2 wasn't a huge surprise. I was afraid of losing Cerulean but thought my hint at protective roles being on them might have deterred a kill. Tammy's post towards the end of D2 saying that she wanted to nail down reads on me and Plessiez to get a better sense of the game made me think that one of us or Plessiez would be killed. With the way the Kanye lynch went down, Plessiez being more obvtown than me made him the ideal kill.

Chamber kill on N3 was somewhat surprising and I do agree with Shadoweh that his reads felt weird. His biggest scumreads were us, Cerulean, and Nero Cain. I'm pretty sure he told that to everyone that those were his reads and I feel he is on the wrong track for the most part. I think scum would kill him to frame those players. My first thoughts on Shadoweh questioning me about Chamber's thoughts was that she was the scum setting us up through the nk but I chose not to say anything at that time in thread to see how the game pans out further and I wanted to see who else would be nk'd and what Venmar would flip.

I was pretty surprised to see Shadoweh killed on N4. If the scumteam truly is among Reck, NS, Plum, Tim, I don't think they've set themselves up for endgame very well. If I trust Tammy's read on Reck, it feels even less likely that the scum are {Tim, Plum, NS} making the kills that they made and it overall just doesn't make sense.

I'm also eager to hear who Empire's other scumread is because if you are town, I really think we are both wrong somewhere readswise. I don't know if you disagree with any of my reads. There is not a snowballs chance in hell Zdenek or Nero Cain are scum in this game. We're both agreed UT is town. Tammy says Reck is town which leaves Tim, and the other scum between Plum and NS which isn't really making a whole lot of sense. I am not even super confident in Tim being scum. They are a pain to meta since I don't really know which posts are whose unless they sign and finding their games has been annoying as well. If you could outline a few points and links really quick when you have time, that'll be awesome. I am talking more of specific posts that make you think it won't come from town-Nexus, or town-Quadz.

I expected Chamber to die night two actually. I thought that his comment when Empire voted Plum that it wasn't the direction for the day was an indication that he had an innocent on her and was a cop, but then when Plum commented to LLD that her Chamber vote was wrong was an indication that she knew he was town too and then I thought he was a weak neighborizer as that seemed to fit both of their reactions.

Empire is shocked over Shadoweh's death but I'm not. Although yesterday when he posted his town reads, I talked to him for a few minutes because I was pretty surprised he didn't have Shadoweh in his town reads by that point. I'm not exactly sure why he didn't. I also can't answer for Empire right now. A few days ago something came back up for Empire and he doesn't have the time or motivation for mafia again. I tried to talk to him about his reads, but his response was that just can't deal with mafia right now, so you're just stuck with me. I'm gonna hold out hope he'll get back into it, but I can't promise anything but now that Tales of is done I can hopefully get back some of my own energy for mafia. I need to readjust some things as I've been operating with a Plum confirmed innocent which apparently doesn't exist and Empire was still wary about her and doesn't have her as town. I'm pretty sure that most of the posts of Tim Howard are quadz, and I totally get why Nexus dropped out during day one because hi! but that's been long blown over, so I'm not sure why he's not posting now, and that's a little worrisome to me. If I were to go out on a limb and guess over the Tim Howard thing, it *might* have something to do with them being partners in ASoIaF? That's pure conjecture though. I suck at reading quadz as I pretty much helped to derail his lynch day one in that game and was wrong, so I'm pretty much defaulting to Empire's last read especially considering he's been more on target than I have this game.

[Cerulean]

Reck is part PoE, part, well, has this guy actually done anything this game at all? At all? Besides, look at what wagons Reck was on. Pushing significantly for Nero over kanye as time ran down Day 2, major contributor to the LLD wagon going through Day 3 (after also almost entirely ignoring her all game), basically ignored Venmar the entire game even Day 4. His style of contribution also seems to me to be the sort intended to create more apathy. A lot of filler, really. Is the stated 'I thought I spotted a cop breadcrumb on Kanye Day 2 etc.' thing so weird to be coming from scum that this is all negligible? Hell no. I think a lot of this play is likely to be calculated scum machinations. The LLD stuff especially just reeks of saying whatever will keep things moving forward with the Mist (the bizarre switch to UT after LLD's case followed shortly by the switch back to LLD, just look at it, seriously, please).

Whew, I missed this.

I've been on shitty wagons and have fucked up big time but that's not actually a scum tell at all (for reference, see The Reckoning III, where I was WAY off on my reads).

I ignored Venmar for a very specific reason and tried to get momentum elsewhere because I was feeling guilty about something that I'll probably talk about at a later time.

Also if you think I'm calculated as scum, you clearly don't know my scum (or town) game play. I don't calculate anything. Ever. I'm pretty reactionary all the time.

Eh, I wouldn't blame people for wanting to lynch me though. Every day I've gotten more defeated about my play this game. It's something about Faraday games, man, I just lose my shit and go full idiot in them.

Which Faraday games? I thought you said earlier that you hadn't really played in Faraday games?

Though I *think* I know why he ignored Venmar and my kneejerk reaction is that it makes him town because I probably would have if I were Reck. Well, I would have probably whiteknighted the fuck out of him actually. Except once I did something in a game and when I was partnered with them later, gave them a special pass due to that previous game and people bought it.

But, I still think Reck is town, so it's a wash. Makes him human.

[Cerulean]

Well, I did some reflection, and that whole game was really weird. I basically lurked the ENTIRE game, which I had never done before, then came up with a really creative fakeclaim to seal the victory.

Some people here have been using my RW meta as a reason to call me town and it seems bad. I don't know that it's purposefully wrong or ill informed.

I thought that your play in Red Wedding was similar to your play in Team Mafia 2012.

Why didn't it bother you when Red Wedding was used as meta read for you in the Reckoning? You didn't sound like my partner from the Red Wedding in the Reckoning and you don't here either. You're saying I'm wrong to feel that way?

I mean you're not as obvtown as you were in say baltomeet or scummies invitational, but tonally you also don't sound like red wedding.

[Cerulean]

I was shocked at Shadoweh being nk'd myself. Are you still townreading Reck and UT? Also, you seem uncertain about Tim Howard, so I'm looking forward to you getting back into the game to figure out where we need to go? At this rate, it seems like Tim Howard is going to get hammered and I am still a bit lost as to why they are being lynched. But there is also nothing about them I can point to and say that it is town for sure. Nacho had a fairly decent townread on them when he last gave out a reads list and CDB did as well and that makes me unsure. Empire's reads aside, how are you feeling about the game right now?

I am still town reading UT. I still think all the things I've said about UT hold. I am still leaning town on Reck. I find it a little weird about him getting *bothered* that people are using Red Wedding to read him with, but maybe I'm just feeling bothered because I feel like it's me it's directed towards when it's a model I used for the Reckoning and it served me well, so once he flips scum while I'm using my model, I'll ditch it but it still feels right? The thing is in the Red Wedding it wasn't about him just lurking. He tried to kinda play up the "I don't give a shit about this game" type attitude that he also did in Team Mafia and for some reason people read him as town for. If you look at the Red Wedding, it's clear that yes he was lurking, but on the occasions he did post it was clear that he had absolutely no idea what was going on with the gamestate. I mean maybe I am wrong to use the Red Weddubg, he was my partner, I knew he was scum so that influences how I viewed his posts in that game, but I still think he's tonally different. I've never meta'd him to see if he has a different scum game, though posts like Post 407 don't sound like the disconnected, lurking scum I've seen before, and more on par with what I've seen of him as town. If he is a more capable scum player though, it's not in my experience.

The thing that makes me feel unsure on Tim Howard is the same sort of thing that made me frustrated that people were scum reading ffery in Tales of. She didn't have reads, when I think she could have easily rambled off reads, but tbf for ffery she had demonstrated some things that empire had pointed out to me that were ffery's town tells. *My* main problem with Tim Howard is that lack of really anything. Nexus not posting does worry me. I was in Abarat when he didn't post except for like once. In Red Wedding he posted somewhat regularly, but in Mafiastuck I'm not sure that he did. (Faraday has a habit of posting as his hydra partner so it's hard to be sure what was going on there.) But other than that, I don't really have a reason to fight empire's read, and it was an early read for him along with Venmar, so I feel like he's more on point here, especially considering that I almost unvoted Venmar yesterday due to softening on him and that would have been terrible. Anyway, I'm kind of empire could be completely on target here and I'll just wait to see if he is and deal with it tomorrow, and based on how things have been playing out in the night game, I'll be here tomorrow. So, if he is scum, I can do a wealth of interaction analysis, and if not I can reset and figure out where we've been going wrong.

Hmmm I haven't reviewed Nacho's readslist. Is there anyone he thought was scum that is still alive. I guess that might be worth pursuing, but I do know that sometimes unless he can really read someone well his early town reads can be misguided a bit. (I had to argue with him quite a bit about an early town read he gave cabd in we the purple to get lylo right.) I'd also feel better about using CDB's town read on them if Nexus was still posting. Basically, they haven't given me a reason to counteract Empire's read.

As far as how I'm feeling about the game? it damn near feels on autopilot. This game feels frustrating in a different way than Tales of. In that game I thought everyone was scum and was manipulating me, but here I feel like I could argue why everyone is town to some degree, which is kinda ironic because then I could truly do POE from the player list! I really really need to reread the game, but I really really don't want to reread the first day. I need to start over from day two regardless, but I kind of also don't want to do that because if Empire is right and Tim Howard is scum, then it would be best to use that time tomorrow to reread. Everything just feels kinda murky and it probably stems from the fact that everyone seems somewhat disengaged from this game and I'm not sure why everyone is? maybe it's because of the bad start? IDK.

[Cerulean]

Sorry sorry.

I planned to get back to this tonight after other responsibilities but then I remembered I had an assignment due tonight. Not that I really have anything to say :/ Get back to it tomorrow then.

[Cerulean]

What's up falcon?

[Cerulean]

Will it give me black goo?

[Cerulean]

oh i wouldn't get black goo just go cult. shame on you for trying to cult me!

[Cerulean]

I was joking. Black goo is a role in greater idea.

There are no cults. I don't know if he uses those roles; he never has in a game he's modded that I've played in. Once he co-modded a game in which the scum team could choose to convert someone to be their traitor (they chose Regfan night one ha!), but I don't think he especially enjoys games with alignment changes. At least I remember him expressing frustration during a cult game we played at Westeros, but that's more because he gets most of his reads early and doesn't really track slight changes in game play. (That's how I remember it, but that game was like two years ago and I don't even close to having the time right now to hunt to make sure I'm getting that right, though I'm sure I am.)

So, I'd say no.

[Cerulean]

Yeah, I had pretty much assumed that. I think chamber said earlier that 3 was too few and 5 was too much? But I just looked at ASoIaF, and in a 25 player game there were 5 full scum and one traitor. In the pop princess upick at Westeros, there were four scum for I'm pretty sure 16 people. So, yeah that sounds about right.

[Cerulean]

I'm not sure falcon. I tried to get empire's thoughts a couple days ago, but that conversation pretty much went, "I'm still dealing with x, don't forget to book your plane tickets." And that's it.

The one thing I've been mulling over is Kanyes appeal to me to make sure th gets lynched. I've gone back and forth on distancing and a sign they're not partnered to thinking he was just trying to get at me in a way that would make me not want to lynch him.

As far as nightkills, I just don't know. Last time I tried to do nightkill analysis, I damn near cleared nacho who was just making weird kills for who knows what reason.

[Cerulean]

You've been pretty much giving your thoughts? Were seeing the game in a somewhat similar way, but you're veering off on nightkill analysis which I'm not interested in. I'm no really sure what exactly you want from me, the past month hasn't really been slow for me and I haven't been around all that much, and empire has yet again pretty much just left me, which I shouldn't be frustrated about, but right now I just want to see if his last read was right and reset tomorrow or hurrah that this game might not make it to lylo. Right now I just want to go to sleep, and I will be here tomorrow baring one specific unlikely, though I suppose somewhat possible thing, I can focus more then when I have more information.

[Cerulean]

You shouldn't have any doubts on your read on me and touché what the hell do you want me to do get a cattle prod and make people start doing something.

You literally just, like just, got out of a game with me where I didn't wall over who the scum were. In fact I'd say the last time I did wall over who the scum was was in yoloville in which I stated the the more I wall about things the more uncertain I become. Why the hell are you using old meta when you have new meta that is more current and displays how I've been feeling about games lately. I know you know better than to meta the way you are with that bs, please don't take a neat tip from peregrine. I was in a very very different place in the wire and even in that game I went through lulls in trying to figure the game out.

We've lynched two scum. We might be about to lynch a third. I don't get how you can't understand that I depending on this read for empire right now as he's been more right than I have so far. It's been a hard month for me, I just want to know what this read is so I don't waste my damn time. If I'm not game solving tomorrow and were still alive, yell at me then. Otherwise can you please leave me alone. I have something else that has to get done tonight and I'm tired. Like I have already said, I just want this day to end so I see if I need to reset or continue where I've been heading. I don't understand why that's hard to understand.

[Cerulean]

Also, I was a VIG in the wire. I was playing a day and a night game. Very different circumstances, I was way more invested because I mattered, my reads mattered, and it made me more invested until I died. And even then I get burnt out on days where I need a break before I jump back into it.

[Cerulean]

I think I can change my avatar now, but I kinda like being pink.

Anyway I need to reread the game, which I will do over the weekend. I probably won't do anything before tomorrow though unless I find some energy; I'm exhausted and about to be lamosauce girl who goes to bed early on a Friday.

[Cerulean]

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

[Cerulean]

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

fixed uh

[Cerulean]

Day 2, VC 28

kanyeknowsbest

- (8):

Plessiez, Zdenek, Tim Howard

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, [/color]

Nero Cain

, Nobody Special,

Cerulean

Nero Cain - (7):

Shadoweh

,

Venmar

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, xRECKONERx,

kanyeknowsbest

, Untrod Tripod,

chamber

Not voting - (0):

--

With

15

alive it takes

8

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

11th of May at 8:10pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-05-11 15:10:00)[/color]
No one is V/la.[/area]

Day Two

[Cerulean]

Day 3, VC 14

Lady Lambdadelta

- (7)

chamber

, Untrod Tripod, T

im Howard,

xRECKONERx,

Zdenek, Cerulean

,

Venmar

Venmar -

(3)

[/color]

Nero Cain

, Plum, Nobody Special

Untrod Tripod - (1)

Lady Lambdadelta

Not voting - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Shadoweh

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

3rd of June at 2:15am

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-02 21:15:00)[/color][/area]

Venmar will be lynched with 6 votes this day phase.

Plum is V/LA.

[Cerulean]

Day 4, VC 3

Venmar

(7) -

Cerulean,

Nero Cain

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special,

Tim Howard

,

Venmar,

Sheep Thor or Sheep Majiffy

Not voting - (5):

Shadoweh, Zdenek

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, xRECKONERx

With

11

alive it takes

6

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

17th of June at 3:30pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-16 22:30:45)[/color]
Plum is V/la. Tammy's head is V/la.[/area]

[Cerulean]

Day 5, VC 8

Tim Howard

- (5):

Cerulean

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special, xRECKONERx, Flipping Awesome

Nobody Special - (1):

Tim Howard

Not voting - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, [/color]

Nero Cain

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

18th of June at 9:45pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-18 16:45:21)

Nero Cain is V/la[/area]

Day 5

I'm not the best at VCA, but in the last game I played I tried to do it and came out with a placeholder for scum, so don't yell at me for not doing it *right*. I'll give some thoughts when I read. (Though I think I'm about to play some skype mafia so my attention might be divided for a bit. Sorry if I seem distracted as I tried to reread.)

[Cerulean]

reck - In the Red Wedding, I got the impression that the reason why you got away with troll hammering was because it was something you did as town too. Did I get that wrong?

(empire and I are having a little debate. apparently I can occasionally draw him into the game, as long as it's about meta!)

[Cerulean]

I did, indeed, get distracted by Skype but I have now put myself on Skype restriction!

Anyway, still reading, and the moment of revelation I thought I had about Reck isn't as insightful if troll hammering isn't something he does.

[Cerulean]

mod I'm going v/la for 2-3 days

sorry guys I can't deal with mafiascum right now.

[Cerulean]

I don't think NS is scum either. He's such a shot in the dark.

I don't really think Plum is scum. F-16 is town town town. I'm town and everyone with a half a brain/isn't scum knows why.

My patience with Cerulean is wearing thin but I still wouldn't lynch that over you and UT. So these guys just need to stop being ego derps and sheep me.

I don't know why your patience with me would be wearing thin. I've pretty much been responsible for two scum lynches by now. I'm trying to get empire to take over for me while I just can't deal with this right now. I just don't know if he can, so if you could just wait for me that would be awesome.

[Cerulean]

Whats wrong tam tam?

i feel awful i'm sorry

[Cerulean]

Also, SleepyKrew should claim.

I'm not funny

I'm just

I'm a Mina fan girl.

Remember howatthe beginning of the game isaid I could Poe the game?

Like I have the most useless roles. I CAN CALL,EVERYONETOWM! Did you know how much Mina and I were alike? Okay so she's not as much of a itch as I am but we both think everyone looks own by this point. So we can call everyone town,and then hey guess what? Once we do that we can Poe from the entire player list!!! Aren't wee fucking special???

SECONDLY were fucking procrastinators. Holy fucking shot does faraday know

me

Mina. Because we spend so much time thinking about/delaying/not writing role pm's for farday when were supposed to, we're a delayer.

That wh if you had us do something one might it took until the next night, that why I kept saying I'll e alive he next day. I only knew we would be dead if there was a missing kill.

A waffle ability would really only be tangible if someone picked me!!!

Of wait did. Make it clear I'm sorry I am drunk right now.

The reason why flip pings role didn't hit us on the night it was supposed to was because we procrastinate?

but her role is mina not Tammy.

Hey...do you not realize were the same person but Mina is just nice rand coole to talk to?

Can someone talk to me about reck? Like I play most of my games with hoe people play inconjunctio. Tigh how I've plated with them in the past. So I expect for Nero to yell at people as he has. I expect falcon to meta read people, have you I'm sorry I'm pretty drunk right now, but I'm still feeling like I should have never fucked up the way in takes like I did and maybe just maybef I didn't there we'd have run that game and In the few moments when I can get empire to talk to me he tells me my little paranoia bits are stupid snd I just want to listen to him. But what was I saying OH look at the reckoning. I totally used the red wedding game for why I thought reck was town. In fact, Cdb, Mille and I discusse it and Cdb tried to use it for eh I sjouldny be using it to town read him. He said that reck would basically try to meta duck on that. Will you look there and he? Am I being insane? I don't know if joe I'm bring meta ducked on that. I'm like just look and tell me?

A waffle ability would really only be tangible if someone picked me!!!

Sir Waffles is a two-person hydra

PEDIT: drunkTammy please stop being mean to Tammy, Tammy is p cool and she really helped me recently when I was emotionally unstable
-SleepyKrew

<3

If I read this correctly.

So sorr!

[Cerulean]

YOU

Whoa

I'm tone reassign Nero Cain and flipping awesome for defo sure

Empire'stold ishould feel this way

I'm reevaluating everyone else right now.

[Cerulean]

YOU

Whoa

I'm tone reassign Nero Cain and flipping awesome for defo sure

Empire'stold ishould feel this way

I'm reevaluating everyone else right now.

I know you are drunk but what's a "tone reassign?"

I don't know what that means, I think you and neroare my town reads?

[Cerulean]

Hehehe


Hobo hohoho


Hahahahshahahagagstas

[Cerulean]

I need help, plea help me.

[Cerulean]

THROWS A BIGGER CONFIRMED TOWN WHY THE FUCK AM I STILL ALIVE HAMMER HERE@!@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



wn\\\\\ Where di you go falcin?

[Cerulean]

I jutst nntorucduced sleepty to violent feems. my job is jone.

i mena i just did that

[Cerulean]

I'M HAVING PROBLEMS POSTING THINS RIGHT NOW.

[Cerulean]

oky give me a minte

[Cerulean]

reckne is [robably actually scum here. Because in the Reckoingin III I called him town based on him not feeling like the Red Wedding, and CDB and Mollie tried to talk me out of that. Bit here he's lie OMG someonw is using the reckoning and the red wedding as meta for me, wtf are they doing? like seriulsy if he was town wiuld he do that? it feels like he's rying to set me up for something because in he reckoning when I used red weeding to town read him he totally didin't try to set me up but here he is and i don't know why? though like holy shit when we were partners is the red wedding he had a whole plan so maybe he does here; idk

um crap, i'm sorry i need to rethink everything.

[Cerulean]

OMG I CAN'T EVEN REA DTHIS TSUPID GOMMAD FUCKIN GAME.

[Cerulean]

oh now i cna as long as i post.

giize.

[Cerulean]

i really really waht ot talk to my feind right now and i can't becaseu i somehow am talknig here.

i don't want to be talking here.

[Cerulean]

Also I submit these as new blue sig song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57zFkL9GSZA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnY5Rp2uNYw

-SleepyKrew

but our songs so catchy, people probably don't listen to the lyrics BUT THEY SHOULD because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself...that's probably actually about huey lewis and the news and I should actually go to sleep. blame shadoweh i've been awake this long. okay sleep now.

we're pink and we're going to sleep!

[Cerulean]

I just realized when the deadline is. I'm still technically v/la until tomorrow. I have some errands to run and an assignment to finish for class, but I'll be around after that, and try to finish what I started earlier in the week before I needed a break.

[Cerulean]

Nero Cain, how confident are you in Cerulean being town?

Oh no you don't. You're not going to pull this on me again. If you have concerns about me, why aren't you talking to me? Why aren't you trying to figure it out?

I'm sorry I went v/la this week just as I was beginning to gamesolve. I'm sorry that I couldn't handle mafiascum this week. I near replaced out of every game I was in, even a game in which I was in LyLo with a near guaranteed win, because I couldn't handle this damn site. It doesn't make me scum, it just makes me crazy.

[Cerulean]

I agree with you about Plum and in a gamestate where you are town, Plum is my biggest suspect.

I wish I could be more confident in my read on Cerulean. I wrote a long wall to Penguin about my concerns as well as the reasons why I am townreading them. I'll try to condense it and post it bullet form. As far as Penguin's reads are concerned, she certainly seems suspicious of Cerulean and isn't telling me that I am being stupid for not being certain. I've played about a dozen games with Tammy (she was town in all of them), and I had townreads of varying strengths and this is one of those games where I am really not sure.

Why isn't Penguin posting here? I see her posting on site, but when I've brought that up to Empire as part of the only real thing that concerns me after the way she lurked and did very little but manipulate me in Tales, he said it didn't matter, that the way you tried to derail the Nero Cain wagon day one, makes you town and I agree on that among other things, but it's something that's in the back of my mind, which is hugely hypocritical I know because Empire left me too but Empire has pretty much stopped playing mafia altogether.

[Cerulean]

because even if those reasons are legit it's a hydra and it could've been empire

and regardless i just don't have any reasons IMO to townread her. i picked out things about you/NS that made me feel you were town, I haven't seen that from tammy

90% of our posts have been me. The major exceptions being when I left the game in day one and didn't return until day two.

[Cerulean]

I was following a recently finished Tammy scumgame where she racked up yet another scum win surviving and winning the game. But her play here seems a lot different. There, a lot of it didn't make sense. Her pushback on Ffery-Kaze felt genuine at that time and I was only sure she was scum once they were in 4P MYLO.

If you read that game, how can you possibly be worried about me here? Even a little. Go back and read that game again, then read the scum pt, then come back here and talk to me. Do that please. Do you know I was actually a little happy to have drawn scum that game? Remember in Tales when i told you I told cabd I hoped I drew scum the next game I played? Yeah, I can't remember if that game had started by the time I said that in Tales, but I was telling the truth about that. I needed a break from being town because I've just been increasingly feeling like I don't know how to scum read anymore, except replacing into games, I still seem to be fine there, but I just feel like people are manipulating me all the time and I don't know how to read around that. In that game I was (somewhat because I still hate playing scum) happy to be playing with Hyperion and happy to not have to worry that I'm fucking up the games I'm in. If you read the scum pt, I expected to get lynched day one. If I did things that didn't make sense, it's because I was expecting to get lynched day one, well and day two, and if you read all the reads I gave I was obviously trying to give reads that wouldn't make it obvious who my partner was upon my flip, and I was kicking myself that someone preemptively cleared town based on one of my reads. That I survived that game was a complete fluke and it would not have happened if my partner hadn't gotten a watcher guilty night one.

[Cerulean]

Tammy, I have been talking to you and I have been trying to figure it out and most of D5 was me engaging you on your reads. I didn't say I thought you were scum. I'm just less sure than I should be and I know it sucks and if you are town, I'm sorry for being paranoid. I don't want to upset you especially if you are town and I am not even reading you as scum, I just wish I was as sure as I usually am. I know you can't handle mafia right now but you are still posting elsewhere and that made me wonder. That and the recently finished Fairy game makes me think I can't read you as well as I thought - or least, your scumgame is at a level where I have to do major re-evaluations in how I read you.

Penguin isn't posting because she checked out of the game a while ago when she went V/LA. She's still busy irl but has been posting about once a day in our hydra QT and giving me her thoughts and support and I think that's awesome. I'm not going to badger her to post in thread because she is busy.

I get it; I'm not majorly concerned about the Penguin thing like I said, it's just something that tickles a bit. As far as posting elsewhere, well one thing should be relieved about that. I was scum in another game and prioritizing that at times because I didn't want to let my partner down, that and I really was relieved not to really worry about having to figure out a game, and I didn't want the 'you're posting elsewhere and not here tell' to be used on me because i'm really aware of things like that when i'm mafia. As far as the other, that one should be super duper obvious right now. Last night, I was checking here while playing skype mafia and blowing off steam but noone posted, which isn't a grand excuse but I really didn't want to deal with mafia in the first place and definitely not as hungover as I was. I obviously can't defend myself for games that are ongoing, but if I'm ever posting somewhere else, the only thing I suggest is to read what I'm doing. Like last night the only reason I posted in the game that ended was because it was lylo and deadline and I didn't have to actually think about anything, just try to decide when to hammer and freak out because I thought that I was going to lose that game by hammering.

And I mean I get it paranoia is paranoia it's nearing end game and after the paranoid spiral I went on you about in Tales of, I have no right to get upset especially considering you also went paranoid on me there too. I just get freaked out when I'm alive this long and people get paranoid of me because I think that I'm going to be the reason town loses and it starts to set me on edge.

[Cerulean]

I re-read your ISO again this morning after the game finished and I read the scum PT as well. So I can talk to you now. The difference between the thread and the PT is the difference between night and day. In the thread, you were attacking Nacho and Bert, felt like you were genuinely scumhunting, considering all the possibilities about whether Ffery/Kaze are scum or whether NachoBert are. On the other hand, in the scum QT, you were falling apart expecting to get lynched over your apparently obvscum play whereas in the thread, ETL and Antihero were calling it the most obvtown play ever. I don't know. I've never played with scum-you so I don't know what interacting with you-scum would feel like so I don't have a basis for comparison. The only time when reading that game I thought you were scum was in 4P MYLO where I realized that you not gamesolving and stalling was pretty scummy. That went away when I realized you didn't hammer Hyperion but it turns out, you had your reasons so that's pretty irrelevant.

I seemed like I was genuinely scumhunting? <3

I can definitely "gamesolve" as scum and I've definitely gotten lax about gamesolving as town. I just sometimes get sparked into action when I get fatigued near the end of the game. In that game, I didn't have to do it, because someone else already had and had nailed down who else was scum and I didn't have to do anything but follow the leader.

[Cerulean]

I re-read your ISO again this morning after the game finished and I read the scum PT as well. So I can talk to you now. The difference between the thread and the PT is the difference between night and day. In the thread, you were attacking Nacho and Bert, felt like you were genuinely scumhunting, considering all the possibilities about whether Ffery/Kaze are scum or whether NachoBert are. On the other hand, in the scum QT, you were falling apart expecting to get lynched over your apparently obvscum play whereas in the thread, ETL and Antihero were calling it the most obvtown play ever. I don't know. I've never played with scum-you so I don't know what interacting with you-scum would feel like so I don't have a basis for comparison. The only time when reading that game I thought you were scum was in 4P MYLO where I realized that you not gamesolving and stalling was pretty scummy. That went away when I realized you didn't hammer Hyperion but it turns out, you had your reasons so that's pretty irrelevant.

I seemed like I was genuinely scumhunting? <3

I can definitely "gamesolve" as scum and I've definitely gotten lax about gamesolving as town. I just sometimes get sparked into action when I get fatigued near the end of the game. In that game, I didn't have to do it, because someone else already had and had nailed down who else was scum and I didn't have to do anything but follow the leader.

[Cerulean]

reckne is [robably actually scum here. Because in the Reckoingin III I called him town based on him not feeling like the Red Wedding, and CDB and Mollie tried to talk me out of that. Bit here he's lie OMG someonw is using the reckoning and the red wedding as meta for me, wtf are they doing? like seriulsy if he was town wiuld he do that? it feels like he's rying to set me up for something because in he reckoning when I used red weeding to town read him he totally didin't try to set me up but here he is and i don't know why? though like holy shit when we were partners is the red wedding he had a whole plan so maybe he does here; idk

um crap, i'm sorry i need to rethink everything.

I'm going to translate this as "Why is Reck concerned about me using RW meta here but not in Reckoning III?".

And the answer is because those two games are really bad examples of my meta (as I explained above), and also because I hate meta, so hearing it back to back two games in a row "BUT RECK IS NOT PLAYING LIKE RED WEDDING" really gets fucking old.

Red Wedding: I lurk as scum, win
Reckoning III: "RECK ISN'T MATCHING UP TO RW META SO HE'S TOWN", I'm town, win
This Game: "RECK ISN'T MATCHING UP TO RW OR RECKONING III SO HE'S PROBABLY SCUM", I'm town, ????

This is why meta is fucking stupid because it actually means fuckall and since my radio show last week where we ranted about players using meta to justify the bulk of a case I have a bad taste in my mouth for it

That's actually not what I said. I've used games that I have experience with you because it gives me the basis for my reads. My early reads on people are almost always based on tone and if I have a baseline, I use it until I shouldn't or until I need to start resetting my reads.

[Cerulean]

Also I submit these as new blue sig song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57zFkL9GSZA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnY5Rp2uNYw

-SleepyKrew

but our songs so catchy, people probably don't listen to the lyrics BUT THEY SHOULD because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself...that's probably actually about huey lewis and the news and I should actually go to sleep. blame shadoweh i've been awake this long. okay sleep now.

Does anyone know what movie I was quoting here?

Ten bonus Tammy-town points to anyone who can pick out of my favorite movies.

[Cerulean]

Crap. My computer sucks and just ate my response to you falcon. I need to finish this assignment that's due tonight, and then I'll be back.

[Cerulean]

I live under a bridge (in Seattle!), away from everyone else.
-SleepyKrew

Okay, that makes sense, I buy it. He does have "under a bridge" as his location and it

might

make sense as an X-shot commuter.

I feel that with Cerulean's delay power, your commuting ability, UT's doc ability and Nero Cain's bulletproof, that's a lot of people that the scum can't shoot any given night. I buy Nero Cain and Cerulean as town. Your ability makes sense. It could be scum with that exact ability and maybe you really are a commuter but scum so I am not sure there.

To be fair though, our delay power would just delay a kill one night. If we were shot there'd be a missing kill, but then two the next night.

[Cerulean]

Also I submit these as new blue sig song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57zFkL9GSZA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnY5Rp2uNYw

-SleepyKrew

but our songs so catchy, people probably don't listen to the lyrics BUT THEY SHOULD because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself...that's probably actually about huey lewis and the news and I should actually go to sleep. blame shadoweh i've been awake this long. okay sleep now.

Does anyone know what movie I was quoting here?

Ten bonus Tammy-town points to anyone who can pick out of my favorite movies.

sixteen candles and pretty in pink

Those are two of my favorite movies!

But they're not what the quote comes from :/

[Cerulean]

town points to anyone who can pick out of my favorite movies.

Those are two of my favorite movies!

YOU OWE MY TEN SMURFING TAMMY POINTS!

But what was the quote from?

You know when i was younger people thought I looked like Molly Ringwald from those movies, but then people also thought I looked like Lindsay Lohan from Mean Girls.

People just think all redheads look alike. It's colorist!

[Cerulean]

Let's try this again!

I get it; I'm not majorly concerned about the Penguin thing like I said, it's just something that tickles a bit. As far as posting elsewhere, well one thing should be relieved about that. I was scum in another game and prioritizing that at times because I didn't want to let my partner down, that and I really was relieved not to really worry about having to figure out a game, and I didn't want the 'you're posting elsewhere and not here tell' to be used on me because i'm really aware of things like that when i'm mafia. As far as the other, that one should be super duper obvious right now. Last night, I was checking here while playing skype mafia and blowing off steam but noone posted, which isn't a grand excuse but I really didn't want to deal with mafia in the first place and definitely not as hungover as I was. I obviously can't defend myself for games that are ongoing, but if I'm ever posting somewhere else, the only thing I suggest is to read what I'm doing. Like last night the only reason I posted in the game that ended was because it was lylo and deadline and I didn't have to actually think about anything, just try to decide when to hammer and freak out because I thought that I was going to lose that game by hammering.

And I mean I get it paranoia is paranoia it's nearing end game and after the paranoid spiral I went on you about in Tales of, I have no right to get upset especially considering you also went paranoid on me there too. I just get freaked out when I'm alive this long and people get paranoid of me because I think that I'm going to be the reason town loses and it starts to set me on edge.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense now and if you are conscious about the "not posting elsewhere" tell being used, you'd probably have posted more. I don't think your interaction with Venmar is unfakeable considering you bus as scum but I'd be surprised if you pushed Kanye the way you did here.

I'm also cognizant of the beetlejuice tell as scum and if I'm called out typically won't post for several hours or a day, so people can't use that! I just figure when I'm town that will shine through. I do sometimes bus, and I might have bused Venmar. I typically prefer not to bus though, and I'm not sure what I would have done with Venmar when Sixty was reading him as town and Pless was questioning the scum read. That one's hard to say, but I will agree that my interaction with Venmar is something I could have easily faked. Though, I didn't really interact with Venmar much; the most interaction from our slot came from Empire as that was his read early on. I'll not talk about what he can fake though, ASoIaF still stings. As far as Kanye, you're right, I can't imagine a scenario where i'd push Kanye. I pretty much consider myself the most expendable member of any scum team, I typically advise bussing me early, and if there's someone who has a strong scum game, that's who I expect to carry the game. Like if I'd have known who Generic was and that he was actually really good at scum in the Red Wedding, I'd have never pushed on him the whole game like I did. Nacho has repeatedly told me that my view of my scum game is not accurate, and maybe it isn't, and maybe in a year or so I'll feel more confident, but not yet.

So, I read the Reckoning as well to see what you were saying about Reck and the only thing I noticed was that most of his early suspicion and votes were on scum (although I think he voted you once). I didn't pick up on any tonal differences between there and here. I'm not sure what to make of him having an issue with you using RW to meta him here but being fine with it in The Reckoning. He says it is because he was correctly being read as town there whereas incorrectly being read as scum here and it is an okay'ish explanation though not groundbreaking.

In the Reckoning one of the things I was looking at was the lack of engagement in the game between him being my partner in Red Wedding (and my teammates partner in Team Mafia 2012). In both of those games he tried to play up the too uninvolved too uncaring schtick and people thought oh town sometimes feel less engaged whereas scum try to make things happen. I know this was especially prevalent in Team Mafia where he had several excuses for why he couldn't participate. (some of them might have been true, I don't know, so I'm not saying he faked any reason why he couldn't be that involved because real life is shit sometimes) But I remember in Red Wedding where he would pop in and have literally no idea what was going on with the game (but was in Baltomeet at the same time and obvtown). In the Reckoning when everyone was calling him scum, I felt like his tone and everything, response to pressure and suspicion, felt different. Mina thought he was scum but I was adamant, until day three after we neighborized UT and he kept trying to convince me Reck was scum and then I almost gave consent to vote him. But then Reck made the case against Pie which got him lynched instead and everyone realized Reck was town and I didn't have to feel so stupid for caving on a town read. So, when we started this game, which was right about the end of that game, it was all still fresh. Reck's start to this game felt very very much like my lurking scum partner from the Red Wedding. But then he made that statement that it felt like it was multiball and he couldn't get a read on anyone, that didn't feel like my partner from the Red Wedding because it felt like he actually tried to engage with the game.

But his argument that he didn't care in the Reckoning but cares here doesn't make sense. I used both of those as a barometer to call him town in both games. Like when I used my tonal argument in The Reckoning, CDB tried to talk to me about it because he thought that Reck would be purposefully different to throw us off. Mollie even started commenting about it, but also to be fair I didn't trust anything Mollie said that game so I wouldn't have actually listened. Here, I used that same thing to call him town, and also to be fairer, I'm not sure about my line in the sand comment to Vi. I was pissed at them even after I came back. And part of this is what makes rereading some of this game difficult because Tierce and Vi are friends of mine whom I talk to pretty regularly, and Shadoweh is a good friend who I talk to all the time. Well I mean insomuch as online people you talk to are actually friends, but re-reading how badly I fought with them is something that I don't want to do not after the Reckoning and Tales of. I just want games to be more pleasant and less hostile, and I hate arguing with my friends and having my hydra partner yell at me for arguing with people. ANYWAY, I'm not exactly how sure that my drawing the line in the sand comment was me being stubborn because A) I was right in the Reckoning and B) I was mad at Sixty and I wanted to be right and I wanted them to be wrong. I don't know if that makes sense and I know it's stupid but I'm not the most emotionally stable person in the world and I think everyone knows that. :/

Combine that with the fact that he voted Kanye early and then unvoted to push the Nero Cain wagon for no apparent reason. Tammy, you said you were sure that Reck was town here and you'd draw a line in the sand saying that you were right in the Reckoning and you think you are right here. What changed since then besides Reck taking issue with the RW meta?

I'm just in the process of resetting right now. The only things I feel comfortable with are that you and Nero Cain are town. There's some early reads you did that don't feel at all like you did in Attack on Titan or Wicked. The interaction with Nacho you had early on and Empire and me don't feel faked. And tonally just so you know, now that Tales of is done, this game is partly why I had such a hard time with you in Tales. The way you did your reads early this game sounded excited, as I would expect, I mean I had paranoia based on a couple of things, but not a whole lot except for here and there. But the way that you worked to get people to town read Nero was exactly like you played the Pick Your Poison game and not at all like the nominal bussing you did in Attack on Titan, and Empire and I thought after the flip no way Falcon's scum. Your tone was not the same in Tales of, so while I felt comfortable for you being town here I was paranoid as shit there.

The only only way I would think that Nero Cain is scum is if it was multiball or there was a third party. I agree that Nero doesn't make any sense to be partnered with Venmar, so he's almost definitely town. The only little tiny niggle at the back of my neck is that he could be doing what Tierce did in a large normal as SK and that's just not shoot anyone so as not to raise suspicion, but I don't feel like that's completely likely. There's really no evidence for a third party, and I remember after ADwD, Faraday saying that he was over the multiball setups for a while. Although at westeros last summer he and mina created a multiball game, but that's neither here nor there. Sure bussing, but I feel like I know how to read Nero in a single faction game. Maybe not in multiball, but single faction yes.

Everything else I'm resetting myself on. I know I started earlier in this week, and I'm sorry that I went nutso and couldn't deal this week because I had every intention to at least reread starting at day two. I can't reread day one as I just can't, but I do need to reset.

Oh fuck what I meant to say was that I totally thought I had something with Reck. Day two he kept coming after me about not voting when it was pretty equal to Kanye and Nero. I thought that Reck was a trollhammerer, but when I presented my smoking gun to empire, his response was "that's not his meta, he really only did that as scum in the Red Wedding", and I haven't actually done research to make sure that is the case, but Reck said it isn't and I tend to find that people don't lie about what their standard meta is not when it's something that could easily be found out. Like I thought that if he does have a meta for trollhammering then why didn't he just hammer Kanye and be done with it? Instead of yell at me for taking too much time? But when we were partners in Red Wedding, when we were deciding who to kill that last night he said that he's try to see if he could get me out of being lynched because we were letting Venmar live to investigate me so that Reck's claim would look legit, so I"m all hrm.

Basically I'm resetting

[Cerulean]

Tammy don't get me started about you and discrimination
-SleepyKrew

I know you feel bad for me don't you? It's nice that your privilege doesn't overlook the hardships we redheads face.

This song says it all!

[Cerulean]

I don't know what the quote is from.

I'm a redhead too.

I'll tell you if noone else gets it, and then you have to watch it!

Redheads unite!

[Cerulean]

Spoiler: vca i started before i went nutso

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

fixed uh

Day 2, VC 28

kanyeknowsbest

- (8):

Plessiez, Zdenek, Tim Howard

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, [/color]

Nero Cain

, Nobody Special,

Cerulean

Nero Cain - (7):

Shadoweh

,

Venmar

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, xRECKONERx,

kanyeknowsbest

, Untrod Tripod,

chamber

Not voting - (0):

--

With

15

alive it takes

8

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

11th of May at 8:10pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-05-11 15:10:00)[/color]
No one is V/la.[/area]

Day Two

Day 3, VC 14

Lady Lambdadelta

- (7)

chamber

, Untrod Tripod, T

im Howard,

xRECKONERx,

Zdenek, Cerulean

,

Venmar

Venmar -

(3)

[/color]

Nero Cain

, Plum, Nobody Special

Untrod Tripod - (1)

Lady Lambdadelta

Not voting - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Shadoweh

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

3rd of June at 2:15am

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-02 21:15:00)[/color][/area]

Venmar will be lynched with 6 votes this day phase.

Plum is V/LA.

Day 4, VC 3

Venmar

(7) -

Cerulean,

Nero Cain

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special,

Tim Howard

,

Venmar,

Sheep Thor or Sheep Majiffy

Not voting - (5):

Shadoweh, Zdenek

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, xRECKONERx

With

11

alive it takes

6

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

17th of June at 3:30pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-16 22:30:45)[/color]
Plum is V/la. Tammy's head is V/la.[/area]

Day 5, VC 8

Tim Howard

- (5):

Cerulean

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special, xRECKONERx, Flipping Awesome

Nobody Special - (1):

Tim Howard

Not voting - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, [/color]

Nero Cain

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

18th of June at 9:45pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-18 16:45:21)

Nero Cain is V/la[/area]

Day 5

I'm not the best at VCA, but in the last game I played I tried to do it and came out with a placeholder for scum, so don't yell at me for not doing it *right*. I'll give some thoughts when I read. (Though I think I'm about to play some skype mafia so my attention might be divided for a bit. Sorry if I seem distracted as I tried to reread.)

[Cerulean]

I'm pretty sure he means Reck there.

[Cerulean]

Okay, Tammy, just read through your wall and it gave me awesome townie feelings and explains a lot of stuff like why you don't feel like re-reading the game and why your read on Kanye changed. I know it can't have been easy going over all of the D1 play so thanks for posting it. I feel like I understand your take on the game a lot better after reading your wall. That's part of the reason I got paranoid in that I didn't think you would be so certain in your Reck read only to flip it late game like you did with your Hyperion read in Fairies but reading through your explanation, it makes so much sense as town and I really shouldn't have been doubting my townread on you at all. Anyways my activity will be reduced after tomorrow since I'm going to visit family so I'm going to try and get in as much analysis as possible. I'm on page 28 of my re-read at this point so I'll have more thoughts as I get through it.

FTR I had no intention of ever changing my read on Hyperion. I intended for him to be the person I'd just town read until I got lynched. Hyperion is from westeros and I never get to play with him; he's literally the only reason why I stayed in that game as I almost outed before the game started but I saw him join so I stayed in; he also really has a tendency to get scum read, and I felt bad that circumstances made it so that I pretty much had to change my read on him and hammer him for the win. He's also the person I kicked myself for because someone cleared him as town if I was scum based on my read on him, and man I just felt bad for that as far as what would happen when I flipped. If he'd legitimately caught me, I'd probably just have been proud of him for it. That sounds dumb, but I sometimes get a bit protective of people from westeros; I had the same problem in Rocky a couple years ago when I played with Expecto and Snowstorm even though I was scum. IDK how much sense that makes.

What are your updated thoughts on Plum? I still don't like her early push on Nobody Special and the subsequent backtracking of it after being asked for a case. It felt like an attack on low hanging fruit which she later backed down from when people challenged her on it. I also haven't seen a lot of analysis from her in the later stages of the game besides the push on Reck when Tim Howard was being lynched but no vote or any real push to see it through, but she was V/LA which is messing with my ability to read her. Do you have any insights from your past games that I should be looking for when I re-read. I haven't played many games with most of the playerlist here and I am sort of relying on you to help me sort out reads and that's part of the reason I felt so much pressure to read you correctly here, I think it was somewhat similar to you feeling a lot of pressure to get a good read on Nacho in Tales after giving him that power N0 and I do think I was focussing on you more than I should in normal circumstances. Plum's reads make sense to me. She is going from a you/Venmar obvtown reads to POEing the rest of the game. But I am not sure how big a towntell it is. I don't like that she came after me citing Shadoweh's incisive questioning but then I thought Shadoweh was scum too when she came after me following Chamber's nk.

My only experience with Plum is Attack on Titan where I correctly read her as pretty obviously town based on spontaneous posting as compared to the On the Boat game which I had followed because Empire replaced in and had used me as a rant buddy. The next game I played with her was the Wizards game, which you've at least read part of because that was the game that Kanye was scum in and manipulated me in, but I was convinced that Plum was scum there but she wasn't. I still do like the "look at this guy" case she had for UT. I'd have to look back at the On the Boat game to see how her posting was there, but and this is where I totally need to get on my reread from at least day two and reset because I was convinced that Chamber had a innocent clear on her, so I've been operating from a Plum is confirmed innocent space since early day two from that. Empire had her in his POE pool even after that, even after I kept saying um I think chamber has a weak neighborizer innocent on her and he was like eh she's still in POE because we can't be certain that you picking up on those pr hints are real. Still though Nacho and Plum hydra'd for the ADwD game and weren't super active there either. This is where I need to reset in my rereading the game from a you had the wrong impression all game standpoint. I still like Plum though. I do need to reread that On the Boat game; if she's capable of reversing and rethinking her reads as scum then my early points might not be as strong, but the fact that she made that case and then backed off and hasn't revisited it? UGH I want to call that town, but much like my fangirl namesake I'm feeling like too many people are town.

What do you think of UT at this point? I was worried about him late game as I spent time re-reading because it felt like he was buddying Reck and Empire's "evil chancellor" comment does have some merit. But looking at UT/Reck interactions in the Reckoning, I can see why UT doesn't want to suspect Reck and go down that same rabbit hole again. There are things that bug me about UT though, one is the doc claim, the other is the reluctance to vote Kanye and I am wondering if Nero Cain is right about it being a Reck/UT team. Also, I figured UT as town would want to protect obvtown rather than Reck each night. Reck who was being suspected by a lot of people. Kanye also spent time defending UT but it came right after you said that the UT wagon was bad. I don't know if Kanye would jump in to take a stance against a declining wagon on a scumbuddy whereas it would make a ton of sense as a weak whiteknighting. Role-wise, I have trouble seeing both UT and Skrew as town so I am not sure I buy a Reck/Plum team although individually I find them scummy.

Okay when Empire gets back in the country, I'll ask him what he meant about that. I'm not sure when he's due back though. All I know is he let me know he was going out of the country some time ago, and when I messaged him to take over for me this week, he was urg and then i tried contacting him today but his friend contacted me to say that he's out of the country and data roaming is expensive so he'll talk to me when he gets home but didn't tell me when that was. OH you're worried about the doc claim, sorry I thought that was empire and I was getting confused. I want to think about all the claims, so give me a minute on that. I have to play claim dreamscape to get everything situated. One thing I do want to stress is that we can't really play what would proper balance due to claims be in a faraday upick. There is some merit to that, as in ASoIaF upick I did not believe all the roleblocker claims could possibly be town. AND they weren't, but iirc the only scum roleblocker was the person who could universally block all roles at night. All of the rest of us who were roleblockers ended up being town, and Shadoweh and I who had similar marriage/neighborizer roles both ended up town. In Faraday Upicks, he makes the roles first then he sets alignments, then he makes tweaks. So, claim dreamscape where I need a minute to ponder. This is my fifth? maybe fourth? Faraday modded upick and I kinda feel like I have a little handle on what he would tweak. As far as what UT has chosen to do with his role, I need to think about that to, and think about it as I reread from day two. I think I would have expected either a protect on you or Pless night two? And maybe us after Venmar? I don't know, but I know I've thought I was the obvious protect in games and the doc hasn't even considered me before, so I need to look at context, which I'll do probably tonight, though I caught d3x in Chef mafia partially for not protecting me on night one when I drove the hell out of a lynch on scum.

Also, how much experience do you have playing with SleepyKrew and do you have a read on him yet? I think I've heard him say you haven't played together but I'm not sure. The commuter claim actually makes sense with the flavor so I buy it but it isn't alignment indicative.

I have no completed games with SleepyKrew. We talk somewhat often and he named my cat, but we've not played together. The only thing I know about Sleepy is that he prefers scum. That's about it. He was in the On the Boat game, and he was obvious town, once he flaked, but yeah that's about all I know for SleepyKrew. Everything else I know, or think I know, is tied up in ongoing games. but his predecessor was Nobody Special whom I have no clue how to read. Empire might have had him in his poe pool but I just looked at can't find it, also I can't find it in our skype chat, but we talk a lot pretty regularly until recently, so. I depend on him to keep me centered on nobody special since castle zar. Oh in Castle Zar, Empire did a meta work up on nobody special, and I guess one thing I liked was how he came back and jumped on Kanye, but I do know that as scum his meta is to be more involved or at least that's what he told me in NY146 when we were in LyLo and I was trying to decide between him and MoI, but when we were partners in Kanye's waterworld he definitely wasn't. I think he replaced out because of Reck though if I'm being presumptuous and that would be weird for partners to do? So that's a lot of nothing?

As far as Reck is concerned, I found his play a bit different from The Reckoning at least the way he reacted to suspicion. It felt very over the top there especially in response to Fate scumreading him and I can see why you townread him here based off of his reaction to Sixty. What do you think is the scum motivation for Reck objecting to your meta-read on him here? I just strongly dislike him having you and Nero Cain in his POE pool as it feels like he is stretching credulity by still considering that either of you could be scum over say SleepyKrew/NS. The "he could be bussing" response when asked why he targeted Nero Cain upon Venmar's scumflip feels too simplistic and not like he was actually trying to read Nero Cain because Nero/Venmar didn't look like a bus at all. While hypothetically, it is possible, I don't think it is very likely. I also thought there is far less scumhunting here than in The Reckoning. What do you make of him voting Nero Cain in Post 1603 and then coming back and saying to hammer Nero in Post 1930. ISO him from the first link and there isn't actually a lot of content and it feels like he is somewhat disengaged from the game. But it could make sense from a town viewpoint as well if he genuinely thought Nero was scummy but the actual reasoning for voting him was pretty weak.

Overall, I am back to thinking at the same place as I was at the beginning of the day. I am sure that you and Nero Cain are town and not sure which two of Reck/UT/Sleepy/Plum are scum. We can't lynch them all so I'm going to have to figure out at least one more strong townread to bank the game on.

I don't know what Reck's scum motivation could be for keeping Nero and I in his POE list for kanye/venmar partners and thinking nobody special is town based on very little. Reck and I were masons in a skype mafia game though last night and he thought everyone else but his mason partners seemed scummy, except for someone else based ON META, though so I could kinda see him thinking a bunch of people were scummy. Um that sounds stupid and I hate it when mollie uses skype meta to read people with in forum games, so it's not stable, but I don't see at all why he could say that Nero could be bussing but Nobody Special couldn't be. I'm gonna read from that link in a minute and get back to you. Actually in a bit longer than a minute. I'm gonna play a game and do this at the same time. So, I'll get back to you on this.

[Cerulean]

Okay I'm looking at 1603, and all I see is him voting and saying it seems bad, the saying it seems bad is IDK. I'm sorry, I'm not sure I can actually finish this. tomorrow?

[Cerulean]

Spoiler: vca i started before i went nutso

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

fixed uh

I'm not sure there's much to be learned from day one other than Nero and Venmar aren't scum together? Unless you want to say Venmar and Nero were partners and they did that ballsy hey vote me teeehee when I think that Venmar quite obviously pulled a trollish move there.

Day 2, VC 28

kanyeknowsbest

- (8):

Plessiez, Zdenek, Tim Howard

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, [/color]

Nero Cain

, Nobody Special,

Cerulean

Nero Cain - (7):

Shadoweh

,

Venmar

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, xRECKONERx,

kanyeknowsbest

, Untrod Tripod,

chamber

Not voting - (0):

--

With

15

alive it takes

8

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

11th of May at 8:10pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-05-11 15:10:00)[/color]
No one is V/la.[/area]

Day Two

Day 3, VC 14

Lady Lambdadelta

- (7)

chamber

, Untrod Tripod, T

im Howard,

xRECKONERx,

Zdenek, Cerulean

,

Venmar

Venmar -

(3)

[/color]

Nero Cain

, Plum, Nobody Special

Untrod Tripod - (1)

Lady Lambdadelta

Not voting - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Shadoweh

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

3rd of June at 2:15am

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-02 21:15:00)[/color][/area]

Venmar will be lynched with 6 votes this day phase.

Plum is V/LA.

Day 4, VC 3

Venmar

(7) -

Cerulean,

Nero Cain

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special,

Tim Howard

,

Venmar,

Sheep Thor or Sheep Majiffy

Not voting - (5):

Shadoweh, Zdenek

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, xRECKONERx

With

11

alive it takes

6

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

17th of June at 3:30pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-16 22:30:45)[/color]
Plum is V/la. Tammy's head is V/la.[/area]

Day 5, VC 8

Tim Howard

- (5):

Cerulean

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special, xRECKONERx, Flipping Awesome

Nobody Special - (1):

Tim Howard

Not voting - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, [/color]

Nero Cain

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

18th of June at 9:45pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-18 16:45:21)

Nero Cain is V/la[/area]

Day 5

I'm not the best at VCA, but in the last game I played I tried to do it and came out with a placeholder for scum, so don't yell at me for not doing it *right*. I'll give some thoughts when I read. (Though I think I'm about to play some skype mafia so my attention might be divided for a bit. Sorry if I seem distracted as I tried to reread.)

Um i'm sorry that's all i can do right now. I'll try to do something tomorrow. So to be continued. I'll try to finish this tomorrow anyway, I'm back to hating everything about this site.

[Cerulean]

Spoiler: vca i started before i went nutso

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

fixed uh

I'm not sure there's much to be learned from day one other than Nero and Venmar aren't scum together? Unless you want to say Venmar and Nero were partners and they did that ballsy hey vote me teeehee when I think that Venmar quite obviously pulled a trollish move there. What's also hard to parse about this lynch is that this was a lynch pushed pretty hard based on meta, and when someone has that much conviction, and look town themselves, it's something that is likely to go through and both scum and town can be "convinced" by it. I mean kanye obviously tried to pull the wk vote the pursuer avenue, and if it weren't for the vengekill, he might have been able to use that to tunnel sangres the next day. One would expect some kind of spreading out of the votes here though.

Day 2, VC 28

kanyeknowsbest

- (8):

Plessiez, Zdenek, Tim Howard

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, [/color]

Nero Cain

, Nobody Special,

Cerulean

Nero Cain - (7):

Shadoweh

,

Venmar

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, xRECKONERx,

kanyeknowsbest

, Untrod Tripod,

chamber

Not voting - (0):

--

With

15

alive it takes

8

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

11th of May at 8:10pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-05-11 15:10:00)[/color]
No one is V/la.[/area]

Day Two

Now if I had a scumputer ala dgb or moi, I'd probably be able to make good sense of this. So far there are more town on kanye than on Nero, and two flipped scum on Nero. Now normally you'd think there would be a bus here, as a lot of people are bussers. I'll have to look back at abarat, but I think ut is a busser, I don't think reck typically is, idk on plum or nobody special. I'd have to look back at water world. If they were careful to split their votes day one, they definitely didn't have the chance to here. They had to pick a side. The one thing that keeps niggling me about this lynch is reck getting after me for not voting and being concerned I was going to cause a no lynch. Of he was concerned about that why not just move onto kanye. I'm repeating myself here about this but

Day 3, VC 14

Lady Lambdadelta

- (7)

chamber

, Untrod Tripod, T

im Howard,

xRECKONERx,

Zdenek, Cerulean

,

Venmar

Venmar -

(3)

[/color]

Nero Cain

, Plum, Nobody Special

Untrod Tripod - (1)

Lady Lambdadelta

Not voting - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Shadoweh

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

3rd of June at 2:15am

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-02 21:15:00)[/color][/area]

Venmar will be lynched with 6 votes this day phase.

Plum is V/LA.

Day 4, VC 3

Venmar

(7) -

Cerulean,

Nero Cain

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special,

Tim Howard

,

Venmar,

Sheep Thor or Sheep Majiffy

Not voting - (5):

Shadoweh, Zdenek

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, xRECKONERx

With

11

alive it takes

6

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

17th of June at 3:30pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-16 22:30:45)[/color]
Plum is V/la. Tammy's head is V/la.[/area]

Day 5, VC 8

Tim Howard

- (5):

Cerulean

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special, xRECKONERx, Flipping Awesome

Nobody Special - (1):

Tim Howard

Not voting - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, [/color]

Nero Cain

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

18th of June at 9:45pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-18 16:45:21)

Nero Cain is V/la[/area]

Day 5

I'm not the best at VCA, but in the last game I played I tried to do it and came out with a placeholder for scum, so don't yell at me for not doing it *right*. I'll give some thoughts when I read. (Though I think I'm about to play some skype mafia so my attention might be divided for a bit. Sorry if I seem distracted as I tried to reread.)

Um i'm sorry that's all i can do right now. I'll try to do something tomorrow. So to be continued. I'll try to finish this tomorrow anyway, I'm back to hating everything about this site.

[Cerulean]

Disregard that please, I meant to save it to drafts while I looked at something.

[Cerulean]

can someone please shoot me?

I mean my vca analysis mostly turned into a big ball of nothing, but making sure I was logged in before I submitted aparently is not in my fucking vocabulary, so losing it is frustrating regardless.

deep breath, try again.

[Cerulean]

how come as I hit my back browser it keeps pulling up that last post and not the other one?

[Cerulean]

actually i didn't try to submit I tried to preview to make sure the quote tages were right, but is there no way to get back to that?

[Cerulean]

Let's try this a-fucking-gain. This probably won't be as detailed as it was when I tried to post it last time as I did some meta in the midst of that, and I'm not going to look at those games again while I do this. SO.

Spoiler: vca i started before i went nutso

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

Day 1, VC 42

Tim Howard - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, xRECKONERx

Venmar

- (2):

chamber, Katsuki

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Cerulean

Katsuki - (10):

sangres, Shadoweh, Tim Howard, ChannelDelibird[/color], Nobody Special,

Venmar

,

Sixty

, Untrod Tripod,[/color]

Nero Cain

, Sheep Majiffy or Thor

sangres

- (1):

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting - (0):

--

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
CDB is V/la

[/area]

Last count of day one.

I'm just going to put these here for now. I'll do something with them after I read.

fixed uh

I'm not sure there's much to be learned from day one other than Nero and Venmar aren't scum together? Unless you want to say Venmar and Nero were partners and they did that ballsy hey vote me teeehee when I think that Venmar quite obviously pulled a trollish move there. What's also hard to parse about this lynch is that this was a lynch pushed pretty hard based on meta, and when someone has that much conviction, and look town themselves, it's something that is likely to go through and both scum and town can be "convinced" by it. I mean kanye obviously tried to pull the wk vote the pursuer avenue, and if it weren't for the vengekill, he might have been able to use that to tunnel sangres the next day. One would expect some kind of spreading out of the votes here though.

Day 2, VC 28

kanyeknowsbest

- (8):

Plessiez, Zdenek, Tim Howard

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, [/color]

Nero Cain

, Nobody Special,

Cerulean

Nero Cain - (7):

Shadoweh

,

Venmar

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, xRECKONERx,

kanyeknowsbest

, Untrod Tripod,

chamber

Not voting - (0):

--

With

15

alive it takes

8

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

11th of May at 8:10pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-05-11 15:10:00)[/color]
No one is V/la.[/area]

Day Two

Now if I had a scumputer ala dgb or moi, I'd probably be able to make good sense of this. So far there are more town on kanye than on Nero, and two flipped scum on Nero. Now normally you'd think there would be a bus here, as a lot of people are bussers. I'll have to look back at abarat, but I think ut is a busser, I don't think reck typically is, idk on plum or nobody special. I'd have to look back at water world. If they were careful to split their votes day one, they definitely didn't have the chance to here. They had to pick a side. The one thing that keeps niggling me about this lynch is reck getting after me for not voting and being concerned I was going to cause a no lynch. Of he was concerned about that why not just move onto kanye. I'm repeating myself here about this but it bugs me a bit. It's not as smoking gun since he's not a trollhamerer like I thought, but. But what I did remember was that I have quasi-experience with both UT and Reck from Abarat to add to what I was thinking earlier. But I went back and looked through that game, META META REÇK!, and Reck seemed to really play up to Fate, but he was also hydraing with CDB and they ended up replacing out early and so that doesn't help a whole lot. UT also only had a few posts but he was trying to make and effort to look like he was making sense with his votes and reads, which matches up to his Wicked play and less like his play here along with his Yoloville play. Meh. I'm not going to go back and pull up the posts and why I think that because I ended up coming up with a ball of nothing on either so it wouldn't be helpful. As far as Plum goes, On a Boat isn't completely helpful here because she was in a mini normal game with only one other scum partner. I remember Empire telling me that he was expecting an SK there, so the scumhunting there could have been completely genuine. Also, since they were in a mini with just the two of them I wouldn't expect much bussing, also also maestro was not present in the early game and what she did with empire was seem slightly concerned about him until she decided to read him as leaning town. I had followed that game, mostly because empire replaced in as scum, and when we played in Attack on Titan I thought she seemed obviously town based on spontaneous posting, but then was completely wrong in Wizards. ANYWAY what I'm trying to say is that I don't feel like I have an accurate take on whether or not she would bus. But I do think she feels less confident in her scum game, so there's that. The thing that I keep feeling ergh about is that Empire was her partner before and kept arguing with me about this read. I had cleared her early day two based on thinking Chamber weak-neighborized her and Empire kept her in his poe pool. That bothers me somewhat, but he was also wrong about Tim Howard, and I think part of that was because he and quadz were partnered in their last game. IDK. I had better thoughts about this before I think. UM the last one I had was looking at Kanye's waterworld where NS and I were partners and he definitely doesn't just have a meta of working hard when he's scum because he had 15 posts in that whole game and he is not averse to bussing or by seeming genuinely convicted someone is scum.

bleh oh I still do think that Nobody Special and Reck don't really make sense as a team, but I do think I was a bit presumptuous on his reasoning for replacing out. That's all I'll say about that, but I'm leaning I don't fucking know there.

I feel like I had something a bit more profound here the last time I did this but now I'm not sure because it's damn late.

Day 3, VC 14

Lady Lambdadelta

- (7)

chamber

, Untrod Tripod, T

im Howard,

xRECKONERx,

Zdenek, Cerulean

,

Venmar

Venmar -

(3)

[/color]

Nero Cain

, Plum, Nobody Special

Untrod Tripod - (1)

Lady Lambdadelta

Not voting - (2):

Flipping Awesome,

Shadoweh

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

3rd of June at 2:15am

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-02 21:15:00)[/color][/area]

Venmar will be lynched with 6 votes this day phase.

Plum is V/LA.

What this day taught me is that A) I need to stop my emotional frustrating thinking someone is manipulating me voting and B) that scum don't seem to be spreading out their votes even when they have the opportunity to. I kinda feel like this lynch could tell us something though I don't know what. The only way that scum were spreading their votes is if Flipping Awesome is scum, but I'm pretty sure that I already explained why not? Oh I went into detail for it in the original damn post. Anyway to back track on the previous day, Falcon does bus, sometimes but his posts regarding Nero and his push on Kanye don't feel anything like the nominal bus he gave his partner in Attack on Titan when I asked him about his read on his partner, and way more like his PYP play where he tried to get the town cop who wasn't doing anything saved from a lynch when I was like meh IDC either way. ALSO, I know that Penguin isn't much of a busser or at least when she was manipulating me in the neighborhood in Tales of, she responded to Falcon's read on her and said she was going to try to start implementing 'that bussing thing' in her scum play to avoid the type of meta play Falcon did on her. So, I don't think the scum team was spreading out votes with Falcon not voting and the other scum spreading out is my non sequential thought there. I also had a whole thing for why Nero and Venmar weren't partners. I'll try to remember it.

My main take away from this is though that we don't have a conscientious team who is trying to stay off the same wagons as their partners if that makes sense.

Day 4, VC 3

Venmar

(7) -

Cerulean,

Nero Cain

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special,

Tim Howard

,

Venmar,

Sheep Thor or Sheep Majiffy

Not voting - (5):

Shadoweh, Zdenek

, Plum, Flipping Awesome, xRECKONERx

With

11

alive it takes

6

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

17th of June at 3:30pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-16 22:30:45)[/color]
Plum is V/la. Tammy's head is V/la.[/area]

Don't really know what to say about this day. Was there going to be any other lynch?

Day 5, VC 8

Tim Howard

- (5):

Cerulean

, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special, xRECKONERx, Flipping Awesome

Nobody Special - (1):

Tim Howard

Not voting - (3):

Zdenek

, Plum, [/color]

Nero Cain

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

18th of June at 9:45pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-18 16:45:21)

Nero Cain is V/la[/area]

Day 5

I'm not the best at VCA, but in the last game I played I tried to do it and came out with a placeholder for scum, so don't yell at me for not doing it *right*. I'll give some thoughts when I read. (Though I think I'm about to play some skype mafia so my attention might be divided for a bit. Sorry if I seem distracted as I tried to reread.)

UM, not much to say about this lynch either. I did though. I had something to say an hour ago or so when I first posted this. I'll try to remember what I said. My whole conclusion was that it didn't really teach me anything. I'm not that great at VCA in the first place and don't typically do it but I did try in a recent game and it set me on a correct path, but there were different circumstances there, so. So, yeah, nothing definitive here except I really still do believe in my town reads on Flipping Awesome and Nero Cain. The only only tiny niggle on Nero Cain is his BP claim and the fear that he could be third party just not shooting, but I don't think that's highly likely. I'll kick myself if it is, but it doesn't feel that way? There is one thing I need to look at concerning the bp claim and Reck's hot or not thing because shouldn't he have gotten it even if he was bp? Him not getting it would more point to ascetic than bp? IDK. ANYWAY, this didn't tell me a whole lot except the scum team isn't making patterns that can be easily read unless I'm just doing this wrong completely but I feel like it will give me better bearing as I reread.

Also this was more thorough the last time and if you've read this far kisses and hugs.

[Cerulean]

Claims for my dreamscape:

Me: Delayer + Town POE list

UT: Restricted Doc + 1-shot Role cop (Investigated FA night one, doc protected Reck nights 4 & 5 - Reck was not third on the wagon on either of those nights btw)

FA: Voyeur (N1 - Chamber (got a qt) , N2 and N3 us (no result), n4 shadoweh (killing), n5 themselves (nothing); avatar change (obvious cuz pink); falling asleep (standard useless faraday role)

SK: x-shot commuter also has to sign posts

Plum: had a qt with shadoweh, can change deadline once, can change title twice, has done neither

Nero Cain: Name is blue (cuz smurf?) and is bulletproof (had that majiffy/thor thing but didn't seem to know it?)

Reck: Messenger (hasn't used), hot or not (n1 Sixty, n2 Venmar, n3 nothing, N4 NC, N5 tried to do Nero Cain again, then informed not able when less than 9 players, thought someone just said they got hotted or notted though, so I'll look back and figure this one out. But, why wouldn't Nero receive the message night 4? Bulletproof just means killproof here right? At my other site, that Faraday and I both play at, if you're BP there you're pretty much a 1 shot ascetic with proof against a killing ability, but here bullet proof is just against a killing ability right? Wait yes, because I've been bulletproof before and received a message over night. It was in Gundam seed, so if someone could clarify that it would be awesome. Anyway I do need to figure out who said Oh yeah I received Reck's thing.)

[Cerulean]

Oh that's one of the things I forgot, happy birthday plum.

Also, as a side note: ut was the third place on the venmar wagon, so that's why he could protect everyone. I thought he'd messed up there but he didn't.

Also, couldn't find who didn't think they'd gotten something from reck then did. Maybe I was on crack?

I'm still reading through some things. I'm enacting fix my sleeping schedule tonight so I won't be up tooooo much longer but as long as all goes well I'll be up before deadline by a few hours. I'm trying to get it done tonight though.

[Cerulean]

Oh damn didn't finish my thoughts.

I don't think there's a lot to be learned from the claims themselves as the roles sound like standard fare. For instance in a upick last year I was a one-shot self governor, and my partner was a miller with a one-shot doc role, but she couldn't use the word healer (what we call docs there) or miller and if she did she lost that one-shot, and she could only heal someone who had written a case of a certain length that included a vote that day.

Roles are not tied to alignment in the traditional way, but hell still want a balanced game. Anyway still thinking about uses of roles as I make my way through.

[Cerulean]

tim nero venmar pleasiez zed is my scum team u guys can quote this post @ the end of the game when i get lynched for being Too Correct.

This is Kanyes day two reads. Almost everyone except venmar has flipped town. One thing to note is right after this list people doubted his venmar/Nero thing and he kept trying yo say they could still be partnered.

[Cerulean]

Also I'm not going to be able to stay awake much longer, but I will be here in the morning for deadline.

[Cerulean]

Operation wake up at a normal time sucks. I might fall right back asleep but I'm here.

[Cerulean]

Tammy, does the game make sense to you at this point? How sure are you that it is Reck? You said you were reading Plum as town and that you won't vote Skrew, and unless you changed your mind, you were reading UT as town too. But someone is scum and I want to sort that out before we end the day.

Not too much really. And it doesn't help too much that I keep thinking I found little smoking guns that turn out to be nothing. I'm reading everyone as town to some certain degree and rereading the game is continuing to reinforce that. I'm in day two right now and I agree that plum/don't make sense. Trying to read her posts from the position that she's not confirmed town like I previously thought and I'm still kinda liking her posts. They have a more spontaneous feel, she feels more confident which come from having someone else to tal through the game with. I like n's less, but it's n's, so that's unhelpful. I don't want to vote screw, I probably said that the other night because he made me laugh, but who knows what I was referring to. I still do think ut is town but I need to think through his uses for his role, but as I'm in day two right now I'm still feeling that same way about his play. The thing I keep coming back to reck on is that he didn't switch to kanye for the lymch day two but was yelling at me about possibly causing a no lynch. Other people were yelling what they'd prefer I do, and saying they would switch, but he seemed to think I would cause a no lynch so why not take matters into your own hands? The hot or not thing sounds believable with regards to venmar, but he then pushed LLD that day. I did reskim that portion but didn't totally read, but LLD was his push as the venmar wagon rose.

[Cerulean]

Okay that means I can go back to sleep.

[Cerulean]

Cerulean is supposedly town for kanye interactions, right?

I'm much more interested in this part tbh
-SleepyKrew

NO, I'm not just town because of my Kanye interactions, I'm town for much more than that. I'm town because I'm fucking town.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, I was about to go full tilt crazy, but empire has talked me down. Earlier tonight I got paranoid that we were just dealing with one scum and an SK, and since Nero had claimed bulletproof, and it felt weird that thor just gets killed a lot cuz really is that his thing?, he was an SK who wasn't shooting, which I know I'd brought up before. And I found a thread on Serial Killer ethics in which Faraday said that making an SK compulsive was stupid, which I thought was further proof for there being a third party, but when I brought it to Empire he was like why wouldn't Nero shoot, that sounds dumb. So I looked and Nero didn't claim until day two, and he really couldn't have known there would be a wagon on him day two so why wouldn't he have shot night one unless he shot the same person the mafia did. And bah, mabye empire's right and it is two scum left because why wouldn't he shoot?

Nero if you were a serial killer would you shoot? Have you ever been a serial killer and used the no killing tactic to look town?

I'm just feeling kinda eh here because I can't really find two people who fit as partners, so it feels better that there is a third party but as empire says that's stupid and I need to stop worrying about that. empire is in the middle of working on real life stuff and I don't know if he can actually be here for anything but grounding me when I go haywire, but I'm still trying to make my way through the game again to see if I can feel confident about something. As it is, I just feel like I'm going to be responsible for our loss.

[Cerulean]

I guess. All I know id that I'm kinda townreading her for hammering Kayne over me but at the same time they took a long time deciding so...stalling in hopes that the wagon would go back onto me?

Are you kidding me? The entire game made it clear it was up to me. Like I literally could have hammered you and it wouldn't have cost me anything because people were asking me to do that. I'm not a moron.

[Cerulean]

Okay.

[Cerulean]

I almost just went full craze on UT, but Flipping Awesome was third on the wagon so never mind.

[Cerulean]

OMG Nero

[Cerulean]

Thank you.

I've been getting stupidly paranoid of you but that comment sounds like my type of paranoia.

[Cerulean]

I think CPR docs kill their target it they're not killed that night?

I think. Someone was that in Anything Goes and they acted like a vig.

Wait, did he claim to protect Flipping last night?

[Cerulean]

Hrm.

[Cerulean]

No, he said he couldn't heal players that were third on a wagon. I'd already investigated his heal targets based on that claim.

I thought that Flipping was the most logical kill last night and got freaked out that he died, but he was third on the wagon, so my freak out was dumb.

[Cerulean]

UT your new avatar reminds me of Thor and weirds me out.

[Cerulean]

I refuse to make anything of the last couple pages.

Games ago I decided pre-lylo was the best way to read people and all you guys are doing is freaking me out.

I'm totally going to be the reason town loses here.

[Cerulean]

Everyone is!

[Cerulean]

No no no everyone is lylo is trying to do the same thing. The most eloquent wins. Everyone is trying to win. Look back at the game; that's the best way. I think. I've gotten it right twice in LyLo and I did it by discounting LyLo and just looking at the game in the past.

[Cerulean]

and gods right now I could make a case for everyone being town and everyone being scum and it's frustrating.

[Cerulean]

Nero is almost definintely town though. There would have to be some great conspiracy between him and Venmar for day one when Venmar said Nero come vote. I mean I guess I can't totally discount that, but it didn't feel like scum/scum interaction. And Empire has been adament that Nero and Venmar are not partners. I also really really think I can read Nero in a single faction game. I suck in multiball, but single faction, I think this is his town game.

So, Nero town. I need to trust someone at end game. I'm going to trust him.

[Cerulean]

"I am confident that you two are the scum and you aren't doing anything to convince me otherwise. But I'll wait for other people before I vote. But I don't have anything in particular I'm actually waiting for the other people for."
Tammy tell me how that's town please.
-SleepyKrew

who said that?

[Cerulean]

the main thing for your slot is coming back near deadline and helping to tip the balance to kanye on day two. But that's primarily it because he didn't have that much else in this game. He thought plum was scum earlier on and thought nero was town but dumb but didn't mention ut except for to say he was null/had no read on.

[Cerulean]

if reck had flipped scum, you'd be definitely town due to replace out.

[Cerulean]

dont fuck with my head

[Cerulean]

yes.

i know it's stupid but it's end game.

[Cerulean]

I logically know that.

[Cerulean]

ebwop: the reck thing

[Cerulean]

"I am confident that you two are the scum and you aren't doing anything to convince me otherwise. But I'll wait for other people before I vote. But I don't have anything in particular I'm actually waiting for the other people for."
Tammy tell me how that's town please.
-SleepyKrew

who said that?

That has been Plum today.
-SleepyKrew

Much more interested in your thoughts on this.
-SleepyKrew

I DON'T KNOW.

like I said i try to discount anything lylo said because it's full of crap mixed on crap.

(if i were to be a logical person, if someone had two town reads then it would make this game simple, yes? BUT it's fucking end game and I don't have two town reads I feel solid on, I have ONE and even that I'm going full tilt on and trying to talk myself down from. So. I don't know.)

[Cerulean]

I logically know that.

STUPID SIGNING
-SleepyKrew

stop joking i dont' need mocking right now.

[Cerulean]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

join the AAAAAH club.

Okay I have stances, I do. Nero's town. *deep breath* he makes no sense as scum. not a bit.

again gonna trust someone, i trust Nero.

But fuck UT protected me last night. I want to give him a hug. Does it make sense. Wait what did plum say?

Sleepy you like scum though!

[Cerulean]

It matters because people who like scum don't mind manipulating people and getting them to see their viewpoint.

[Cerulean]

What is Plum's motivation there?.

pedit: in those posts?

[Cerulean]

It matters because people who like scum don't mind manipulating people and getting them to see their viewpoint.

Uh I want you to see me as town regardless of my alignment? Again, what does my preference have to do with the alignment I was dealt and had no control over?
-SleepyKrew

because you as scum wouldn't have any oh crap what's the word qualms? about manipulating me here?

can you look waffles in the eyes and really claim town?

[Cerulean]

What's Plum's motivation there????

[Cerulean]

It matters because people who like scum don't mind manipulating people and getting them to see their viewpoint.

Uh I want you to see me as town regardless of my alignment? Again, what does my preference have to do with the alignment I was dealt and had no control over?
-SleepyKrew

because you as scum wouldn't have any oh crap what's the word qualms? about manipulating me here?

can you look waffles in the eyes and really claim town?

Would any scum have qualms about manipulating you, regardless of preferred alignment?
Yes I can claim town to your cat but I'd do the same as scum.
-SleepyKrew

see

[Cerulean]

What's Plum's motivation there????

"Can't get a lynch right now, better wait!" or something

-SleepyKrew

i feel like you're trying to get me to vote plum so you can quick vote her

[Cerulean]

It matters because people who like scum don't mind manipulating people and getting them to see their viewpoint.

Uh I want you to see me as town regardless of my alignment? Again, what does my preference have to do with the alignment I was dealt and had no control over?
-SleepyKrew

because you as scum wouldn't have any oh crap what's the word qualms? about manipulating me here?

can you look waffles in the eyes and really claim town?

Would any scum have qualms about manipulating you, regardless of preferred alignment?
Yes I can claim town to your cat but I'd do the same as scum.
-SleepyKrew

see

What am I looking at/for?
-SleepyKrew

I don't know what you're asking me here for

[Cerulean]

VOTE: plum

FINE

[Cerulean]

wait

[Cerulean]

crap

[Cerulean]

crap

[Cerulean]

UT and Nero?

[Cerulean]

yes to ut and nero?

[Cerulean]

i'm gonna go cry.

i told you i'd be the reason town lost this game.

[Cerulean]

I'll go the benmage route and blame faraday for not balancing correctly?