Mini 1597: Runecast Mafia - Day 5

[d3x]

/sigh...too easy

Way too easy.

Do this instead.

Vote: hiplop

It's such a good feeling...

[d3x]

He and I are iRL besties and he always starts RVS with a Vote on me. Check any of his games.

[d3x]

Thoughts on the 2 building Wagons, gp?

[d3x]

So you're just hand waving the early Votes b/c it's the RVS?

Ansuz {both heads} has said that they find hiplop scummy.

Tunnel has 2 seemingly legitimate Votes.

Is your Vote on Kthx just RVS?

[d3x]

Rvs wagons are really common. They don't say anything tho

That's some funny horse shit, right there. Just because Wagons are common in the RVS does not mean they don't say anything. RVS Wagons say quite a bit, both of the Wagonee and the Wagoners. And that doesn't even speak to the fact that the Wagons built at the time

were not RVS Wagon flippery

. Just because a Wagon builds in the RVS does not mean it's for the lolz.

And why exactly are you making such a big deal out of it?

Please point out where I'm making a big deal about it. I asked a question and pointed out that those Voting on the Wagons are seemingly doing so for legitimate reasons. Now I'm making a big deal about it, for your info.

My vote on dex isn't as serious as my kater stage votes, but yet not pure RVS.

You're not Voting d3x, you're Voting Kthx. Note to self- gp and Kthx are not Scum together.

d3x - I don't see Tunnel's 'seemingly legitimate votes' to be legitimate, see question directly above (and that Tunnel's first vote was an RSV).

I was refering to the Votes

on

Tunnel, not Tunnel's Voting record. In rereading, High's may just be RVS nonsense, but I highly doubt Kthx's was. He gave reasons for his Vote. It didn't come off as flippant. That's why it's 'seemingly legitimate'.

Konowa would also like to note that this answer sidestepped dex's question.

This.

Mantis, my love... why?

Lynx- You're using a whole lot of words to say a whole lot of jack all. It's funny that this particular poke is about Mantis Active Lurking, while you yourself are doing a fine dance on that line.

Damnit Kthx, how is Tunnel scummier than hiplop?

Speaking of... Tunnel, if you have a ScumRead on a player, why are you not Voting them {read- at all}?

Final point to all. Since there are a shit ton of Hydras in the game, can we refer to them by their Hydra names? Plz? Nacho isn't in this game, Ansuz is. You can't have a ScumRead on Nacho. I don't know who's in the Hydras and I didn't even realize some of the players here

were

Hydras, so let's not confuse d3x, mm'k?

[d3x]

@

Mod

- Since we have players insisting on using names that are not in this game, can you please update the player's list in the OP to reflect Hydra memberships, plz? I didn't even realize that some of these dudes

were

Hydras, let alone who's in them.

[d3x]

You started asking questions, being aggressive just because I vote someone.

Oh the lies. They make me smile. Read over the interaction. You Voted Kthx while asking a question. I answered for him and asked for your thoughts on the Wagons. How is that being aggro? And how can you possibly attach the reasoning to your Vote? Seriously, if you're going to lie, at least make it a good one. This is bush league shit.

Now you are saying you haven't made a big deal out of it.

Again I ask you, where have I made a "big deal" out of the page 1 Wagons? Why do you continue to avoid this question. There are 2 {or 3} players now pointing out your sidestep.

Your early aggression here doesn't feel like town aggression.

I'm really happy for you. Your dodging, hand waving, inflating my "aggression", and most importantly lying don't feel like Town to me. And it's more solid than anything I'm currently getting from the hiplop Wagon. {I'm also not too keen on the easy L-2}

Vote: gameplay506

I for one would very much like to hear Mantis's responses to OP's p84.

I'm using a lot of words because they'll inspire us all.

snip

Much like your entire post was doing, no?

No, you're just using a lot of words. You're keeping you post count pretty middle of the road. You're keeping your word count excessively high. You're keeping your game related content at minimum levels. I'd say that in the 6 words BE has used in his only game related post, he's contributed about as much as you have. The problem is, you're writing prose when it's not needed. You're fluffing the shit out of your posts and they are ultimately lacking in any meat. There is little to no point in what you're actually saying, but you're using a ton of words to say it. That's a problem and it will only get worse if you continue to fluff post. To flip a phrase, as you seem so want to do... Brevity is the soul of Mafia.

Now back to your first point.

You misunderstood; I too was referring to the votes on TunnelMates.

That makes even less sense. Why did you think Kthx Vote wasn't legit when he gave reasons for it that were game related. I don't care if you didn't agree with the reasons, the fact that he

had

reasons made the Vote legit. Why were you saying otherwise?

I want like to like you, I really do.

Why? You either think I'm Scum or I'm Town. If I'm leaving you with scummy vibes, why would you 'want to like me'?

Gameplay506 might not approve of your early aggression

Do you thus agree with his assessment of the situation? That I went aggro on him before p31? That I "made a big deal of it" before p62?

Kthx's p95 is full of good time vibes. Please stop beating the dead horse over TM, though. You're clearly not going to get anything from them and it only makes them post more drivel.

[d3x]

It's not bad, but I found a better place for my Vote. It makes me uneasy that the Wagon I was on got to L-2 with the calibre of Votes that got it there.

[d3x]

Ladies and Gentlemen, this'll be a big one. I promise it's worth it. Our D1 Lynch is here.

Hey Lynx, pay attention. As you've so nicely aligned yourself with gp, some of this will mirror my thoughts on your recent post as well.

@gp- The ultimate issue here is timing. The reason that p26/28 matter is that you started saying I was making a big deal out of things before my p62 {where I actually start getting aggressive and fully admit to escalating the point}. After post 28, you said I was making a big deal out of things. That is flatly untrue {also known as a lie}, and you have yet to explain how I was making a big deal of anything before your p28 {which is why you're dodging/sidestepping the issue}.

You're misrep'ing me to make it sound like I'm denying going aggro on you.

D3x agggressive? Nope.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot explain the earliest instance of your misrep and now you're backpedalling by lying and saying that I'm denying anything that has happened after the fact.

I never said the aggression I am voting you for is located just in your first post concerning me. That is why calling me a liar isn't correct here.

This is directly the issue. I am not, nor have I ever said that. What I have said {and again, you have still failed to answer} is how this interaction is legit...

Thoughts on the 2 building Wagons, gp?

I see only the Hiplop wagon. It's and RVS wagon so nothing there now.

So you're just hand waving the early Votes b/c it's the RVS?

Ansuz {both heads} has said that they find hiplop scummy.

Tunnel has 2 seemingly legitimate Votes.

Is your Vote on Kthx just RVS?

...snip...

why exactly are you making such a big deal out of it?

If you consider p28 post 'aggressive' or 'making a big deal' out of anything, I don't know how you've made it 5 months on this site lol...

Actually it is really interesting how you ignore your post 62. Why exactly did thought that I was talking only about post 28?

Your accusation occurs before p62. I left it out because you're not a freaking clairvoyant. This is particularly important to note in terms of Lynx. I asked him the specific timing to see if he would read the interaction or just blindly follow you. Looks like we have a Sheep.

Ugh I think there are just 2. You and Konowa (unless I missed someone; if so point me to him). Why did you feel like exaggerating right here?

It is not exaggeration to think there is someone else interested in the issue. I didn't feel like rereading the 5 pages of thread at midnight to find a potentially 5 word question or support for a question. For the record, Ansuz mentions that post here and Kthx does it here. Whether they agree with my or Konowa's sentiments is their's to say.

Oh and the big deal about day 1 wagons is where you call some part of my post "horse shit" , just so you know.

This is really funny. You are actually suggesting that the 'big deal about Day 1 Wagons' that you pointed out in post 31 occurred an entire page later. Let that sink in. You are justifying yourself with 'evidence' that hadn't happened yet. I guess I'm wrong. Maybe you are clairvoyant.

I'm really happy for you. Your dodging, hand waving, inflating my "aggression", and most importantly lying don't feel like Town to me. And it's more solid than anything I'm currently getting from the hiplop Wagon. {I'm also not too keen on the easy L-2}

So you are voting me for not answering where your aggression came from? So are scum more likely to do that? Have you heard of lazy town? Oh and if you are basing your vote on me not answering your questions ( lying as you call it), but seeing I already answered it, what do you have against me now? And this vote on me just seems like an OMGUS vote so hard.

A Strawman isn't as effective if you include the points you've ignored in your quote. There are 4 distinct and completely seperate issues that are causing me to Vote you. You're handwaving {again} and saying that dodging a question can be from lazy Town. Lol...

On to Lynx!

I'm not sure why you're trying to make sense of the TunnelMates discussion

You do know that Kthx and I are 2 different people, right? I'm not trying to make sense of TM. I'm trying my damndest to ignore them. Kthx is trying to make sense of them.

Listen, I've caught Scum on page 1 before. It's not impossible and it had everything to do with the RVS and the RVS Wagons. If someone says their Vote is legit, who the hell are you to say it isn't? More on that later.

So why are you so defensive when it comes to TM, when the votes on them were *clearly* meaningless?

What part of any of this has to do with being defensive over TM? And how on God's green Earth are you saying that people's Votes

which are clearly stated as being legit

are meaningless?

You stated in post #28 that "Ansuz said they find hiplop scummy". Read that number again; post 28.

So... Fucking... What? How does a post number have

anything

to do with the legitimacy of a read?

Let's go over this again. You're insisting that MY posts are fluffy, but please go back and check out TM's cotton candy boxes.

And? I've played with 1/2 of TM before and I don't care for his playstyle. He's obv spending a large portion of time shitposting and cluttering the thread. As I've told Kthx, you shouldn't feed the troll, so I'm just ignoring them until/unless I see something legitimately scummy come from them. You, on the other hand, were fluffing the shit out of your posts and trying to push them as game relevant, all while accusing Mantis of Active Lurking. That's some funny shit, right there.

The rest of you post is dealt with above. Go read it and try to justify gp's statement of me making a big deal of the D1 Wagons happening 30 posts later. If I missed anything relevant, by all means, ask again. I'm tired and need to get the baby down to nap.

[d3x]

What specifically did you not like about it, hiplop?

[d3x]

Why Lynx over gp? Willful ignorance?

[d3x]

I'm torn over Lynx. I feel strongly that at least one of gp & he are Scum, but my bet is clearly gp. Especially considering that final jab ^

[d3x]

Very long and stressful weekend. I should be able to catch up tomorrow {night}.

[d3x]

For those who are just skipping over these anyway, I'll be putting my arguments in spoiler tags. I recommend you read them, though. They're really beautifully crafted labors of love.

Spoiler: Regarding gameplay

In post 31 I say that in your post 28 you make a big deal of me calling the formed wagons RVS wagons. Yet note that I didn't vote you for this.

You've finally seen the point of this whole thing! In p31, you say I'm making a big deal over the RVS Wagons. This is what I have been asking you to explain. How was I making a big deal out of the RVS Wagons? This is exactly what you've been avoiding answering. You know what I think? The same Tell that is currently being applied to geraintm should be applied to you here. I just wanted your opinion, but you starting getting defensive. After that, you've avoided the question and conflated my attitude and treatment of you. You've also started dropping one liners making it sound as if I'm saying things I have not said and have further avoided the issue when you've been called to task over it. Further, it makes no matter that you didn't Vote me over it; although at the time, you seemed to think that you

did

Vote me...

My vote on dex isn't as serious as my kater stage votes, but yet not pure RVS.

So where exactly does the misrepping come from?

Funny you should ask. Are you reading my posts? I'm feeling like you aren't.

You're misrep'ing me to make it sound like I'm denying going aggro on you.

D3x agggressive? Nope.

It continues along the same lines with this little gem.

I never said the aggression I am voting you for is located just in your first post concerning me.

I never said any of this, yet you're trying to defeat my arguments by deflecting and debating under the premise that I did.

I also love how you tried to Strawman my reasoning for Voting you, I called you on it, and you have neither denied the Strawman, nor tried to argue my reasoning. What you

have

done is try to laugh it off and started resorting to baseless namecalling. How's the old "I'm rubber, you're glue" defense working for you?

@d3x before you go like "oh gp why did you unvote me?" I will answer you.

I didn't give a shit that you Voted me in the first place, why would I care that you UnVoted me?

Spoiler: Regarding Lynx

My first few posts were

flavorful

selfgratifying wordcount extravaganzas that were seriously lacking in content

Ftfy.

Burning_Earth and HighShroomish, you two are suspecting me for trying to make sense out of the situation?

I've listed the applicable posts below. Please explain how you translated them into "trying to make sense of the situation". Please add any quotes form these two that helped you come to this conclusion.

I'm liking lynx for scum ATM

Okay, well

UNVOTE
VOTE: LYNX

Everything has already been said...

d3x, what's funny to me is that you're so defensive about the votes on TunnelMates. Here are the votes on him;

#14 and #17 (in two nearly empty posts?)

Clearly RVS, because those are not 'scum reads' and therefore are not legitimate.

Ok, let's hash out this shit right fucking now. Firstly, almost 200 posts ago, I said that HS's Vote is nonsense. Good job arguing a point I dropped 7 pages ago. Secondly, you keep saying that Kthx's Vote isn't legitimate, but you also keep ignoring my responses. Kthx has said that his Vote was legit. His Vote has accompanying reasoning behind it, which he has explained numerous places. Why do you keep repeating that his Vote isn't legit, while ignoring the evidence that it is?

What upsets me is that you insist your argument makes sense.

You haven't even tried to show that it doesn't. You've just been saying the same thing over and over. Let me try this another way... what makes a Vote legitimate? I really want you to answer this, so I'll say it again. What makes a Vote legitimate?

In other news...

Lol @ Lynx's Reads List. Dude, you are

way

out of your depth.

I feel strongly that gameplay swapped his Vote for 2 reasons.
1- He got no traction against me. And could only attempt to dodge/redirect my points against him.
2- A few had expressed LynxScum leanings. Lynx is in the wrong game and it'll be easier for gp to mount an offense against a newb that is floundering.

gp's p146 is full of weasel turns of the phrase to make Lynx's points sound way scummier than they actually are.
A few examples-
1.

You're one of the players under fire, so you've found a way to redirect that at me, it seems.

Hm no sorry. I am not the only one under fire.

2.

I can't possibly see what' scummy about listing those who place suspicion on me, but I gave my reasons why.

So whoever scumreads you automatically gets into your scum list?

You know, I think I <3 you Konowa...

d3x, surprisingly, is reading town to me atm.

While I definitely don't have you anywhere near a ScumRead, what is this about? You usually TownRead me until the Day's almost out. Then you go all paranoid apeshit in the last few hours of Daylight.

@Konowa if you think I am scum vote me.

Lol... Konowa has been Voting you for freaking

ages

.

gameplay seems town.

Based on what?

Out of the list of TM, HS, geraintm, Lynx, and hiplop; Who would you be willing to vote (can be more than 1) and which do you think is most likely to flip scum and why?

Meh. I don't really have anything against Lynching any of those chumps, but I don't really have a hard on for any of them swinging. I'd pry rate them as such...

Ropeworthy

-TM>hiplop>HS>geraintm>Lynx-

To be Sorted Later

How about Konowa stops talking like this?

He clearly has a post restriction, dude. Stop being annoying.

There's room for you on the Wagon, OP. I'll even bake you both cookies!

I was voting d3x because his reasons for defending TunnelMates didn't seem right to me.

Wait, what? Where was I defending TM?

Ffs... this ended up being a Wall even with spoilering the early gp and Lynx shit...

url tag fixed in first spoiler section. - f

[d3x]

@

Mod

- There's a broken url tag towards the end of the 1st spoilered section. Could you fix it, pretty plz?

done. - f

[d3x]

Re: geri

I dislike the RVS post when the RVS is clearly over, but I know many players who do that. Leaving the Vote there smacks wrong, though.

I further dislike the point against Konowa speaking in 3rd person. I have no idea how this has any bearing on alignment. The rest of the Reads could just be platitudes, but I'm not really up in arms over any of them.

I'd be interested to hear what those hating on Lynx for Voting me over other 'stronger' ScumReads have to say about p149. Geri is unashamably holding an RVS Vote one of his strongest TownReads over... well... anyone else.

I'm not a fan of the knee jerk reaction to the Vote on him and fallout thereof. I'm reserving full judgement for his responses to Kthx's most recent posts, though.

Summation- I have him Null/Scum.

p.edit- gp, if you're so hot to Claim, why are you waiting?

[d3x]

I'm just waiting for the Claim to be Hated or some shit.

[d3x]

@gp- Full ReadsList, if you don't mind.

[d3x]

It's a closed setup. Only the presumably Scum know.

[d3x]

/Presumably, only the Scum know.

[d3x]

Also, it's not exactly a BP claim, more like vengful townie + cop or something.

It reads like he's told that he was shot, not who shot him. Also, there's something like a 0% chance that he's getting DayKilled. I don't believe him anyway. Moar Votes, pl0x.

[d3x]

You could've just as easily made p315 about me and Lynx. I'd say I more blatantly called him a Newb and changed his demeanor in my p241 than BE did in his p216... and it was more directly related {chronologically and thematically} to Lynx's "change".

Aside from that, I feel that there's a discrepency in his Claim.

Once somebody tries to kill me, I am told and I won't die until the end of the same die. In the end of the day I die.

...is not the same as...

Then instead of dying right away during the night, I die in the end of the day.

One seems to talk about DayKills and living until the End of the

same

Day, the next talks about NKs and living through the entire next Day phase.

[d3x]

Who's? Mine or Kthx's? What specifically is being 'framed'?

[d3x]

You are trying as hard as you can to make my claim look fake.

Are those your words or are they not? Did you or did you not say that you'd die at the end of the same Day phase as the Kill attempt? Then did you or did you not say that you would die at the end of the following Day phase as the Night Kill attempt?

p.edit- So we should look at BE, me, hiplop, TM, OP, maybe Konowa, and "other people" after you flip? M'kay....

[d3x]

Once somebody tries to kill me, I am told and I won't die until the end of the same day.

I won't die until the end of the same day.

end of the same day.

same day.

Yeah... I twisted it.

[d3x]

F that noise. I'm riding this horse.

[d3x]

Though I'd like to hear more from everyone else, specifically

...snip...

d3x. Of the three current targets, who would you vote for? (gameplay506, HighShroomish, myself). Do you guys have stronger reads from anyone else? Is anyone actually playing this game?

Really? You want to know which of the 3 'current targets' I'd Vote for? You want to know about my strong ScumRead? You're doubting my committment to the game? Have you actually read any of my posts?

[d3x]

Oh scum reading everyone even slightly suspecting him ( extreme OMGUS)

This made me so freaking hard...

I am pretty sure all scum are on my wagon.

I told you go ahead and lynch. Then look at the mad pushes on my wagon. Lynch scum. GG

You are trying as hard as you can to make my claim look fake. Be, osseus and some people attempted this too. If I get lynched I suggest people look at those players first.

please say who is scum

Everyone still pushing my wagon.

[d3x]

You're the only one still voting gameplay506 now, and quite a bit has transpired since.

Not much has actually happened, imo. There is an appalling lack of content in the last 4-5 pages. There's been a shit ton of people requesting gp to provide content and him posting an equal shit ton saying jack all.

I'd like to hear if you agree with the HighShroomish wagon, as you're one of few who ARE committing to this game.

I'm fine with HS Swinging, but my opinion hasn't changed from the last time I spoke about not Lynching gp.

[d3x]

The hell are you talking about? Of course I want gp Lynched. I've only spent ~95% of my posts outlining exactly why.

You asked me what I thought about Lynching HS {not Lynching gp}, just like Kthx asked about Lynching various players {not Lynching gp}. I didn't say I don't want gp Lynched, I said that my feelings haven't changed since the last time I was asked about not Lynching him.

[d3x]

Vote:hiplop

[d3x]

@hiplop- Who said I was nice?

@Lynx- All in due time.

@gp- First- The fact that you're unCC'ed means jack all. In my 5 years onsite, I've never seen your Role, so ScumYou correctly guessing that exact role is in this game is highly unlikely. Second- If it was a hard fast rule not to Lynch a PR, Scum would always Claim PR and would never be Lynched. Third- If you are actually Town, you are essentially now VT {unless we have a Vig who would be so kind as to end you}.

[d3x]

I'm most happy with hiplop or gameplay as today's lynch

This.

[d3x]

I'm comfortable listing my thoughts now that we've gotten some reactions and positions taken.

I especially did not like p481. Others have taken sections out and said that they show hedging that lends to a meta Town read on hiplop. Simply put, I don't see hedging, I see contradictions.

In the beginning of the post you have no trouble calling gp Scum; you even apply the 'Too Scummy to be Scum' Tell. The problem is, you immediately say that he's not scummy, he's just annoying and antiTown. Scummy and AntiTown are two very different things. You go on to talk about the Claim being a Scum Trap Role. I'm assuming you mean that it's a Town PR that is designed to sound scummy so as to leave doubt in the Town's mind as to his alignment after Claiming. Wtf, seriously? Please tell me that this isn't what you are asserting about the Role.

You spend most of this post talking about gp, but not addressing the actual points against him. You give two half assed 'Reads' that are really empty {you list HS, but don't say a single word about him}. This is arguably your second content post in a game that was at 20 pages and your previous content post was a serious{?} Vote because something 'rubbed you the wrong way'.

Then there's this little gem...

Is it better to get rid of an anti-town town player (who may be scum) or a IMO better chance at a scum player?

This just feels

really

wrong. The 'AntiTown Town player' here is gp, who you've previously said is super scummy. The 'better chance at Scum player' is Lynx, who you've listed pretty vague reasons for suspecting. You call p381 terrible, but don't give any evaluation about it. You call him 'nervous' and bring in OS's opinion that he's 'flailing'. The nearest I can find this opinion is here.

Might as well lessen all interaction with Lynx too, because he's getting pretty unproductive under pressure. I'll write that off as him being new, as I still lean town on him. (but not as much as the beginning of the day)

Basically, I see you as having 0 depth in your Reads, no real content, and contradicting opinions all after catching up from Lurking 10 iRL days away being sick. I see you as having been finally called out enough to try and post, but failing at getting that 'Town catching up' feel in your posts that I think you were trying to manufacture.

I'm happy with this Lynch Today.

[d3x]

I'm not saying that you're lying about being sick. I'm sorry if you got that impression, as iRL stuff gets in the way and I recently got over being sick, myself. It sucks hard and I hope you're feeling much better.

What I am saying is that you posted 0 meaningful content during those 10 days, but you did still post. You even made sounds like you were going to catch up at page 9. Your return to the game content post was weak at best, scummy as all hell at worst. I'm reading it leaning towards Scum posting, obv.

While you may debate the details of the Tell, you did call him scummy. In fact, you called him "Too Scummy to be Scum". You can't have that unless he's scummy...

too

scummy, in fact. The Tell is that he's so freaking scummy that Scum would never be so obvious. That's still scummy, though.

Now that we've debated a largely game theory point, nothing about your sorry excuse for Reads?

[d3x]

Or the arguable misRep of OS? Or clarity on gp's Claim?

[d3x]

That'll be difficult without another Vote, chief.

[d3x]

You've proven once more that you are as constant as the ever changing moon, Lynx.

[d3x]

It's Shakespeare, Lynx... settle down.

[d3x]

@Lynx- What specifically makes you think hiplop is Town?

[d3x]

I didn't say you said that, but here's the reality of Mafia. Players are either Town or they're Scum. You helped run up this Wagon and then you backed off at the last second {so much so that the Mod thought there was a Lynch with you on it}. You then said you will not Hammer him. That clearly speaks to you having him as a Town Read.

[d3x]

I openly supported this wagon with the intention of getting a response from hiplop.

What do you consider the most important information that you got from supporting this Wagon?

I won't consciously lynch someone unless I'm 100% sure it'll benefit my personal agenda.

Then you will never Lynch someone. There is

always

a measure of doubt {PR results not withstanding}.

We've four days left, and I'm not in a rush to kill.

The amount of time left has 0 bearing on the scumminess of a player and should not be used as a justification for Lynching/not Lynching.

If he's scum, then that makes me prime suspect, doesn't it?

No. That's not how this game works.

But if he's town and I lynch, it'll look bad on my part. I'm not putting myself in that position.

This isn't Survivor, it's Mafia. Who the fuck cares if something makes you look bad? Unless you're 3rd party, your survival has no bearing on your WinCon.

[d3x]

Please note that hiplop has not responded to the case put forth against him by multiple players {myself included}. He has instead chosen to continue empty posting.

[d3x]

Vote:Mantis

[d3x]

I'll try to catch up for realz tomorrow {night}.

The long and short of what I've glanced at Today is Newbs gotta be Newbing up the damn thread and some Old Beards are finally taking exception.

[d3x]

Alright, here's what I'm thinking and this certainly didn't make things better...

(sorry guys... i can make cases, eventually). but am just wanting to get firmer views

At this point in the game, the TownMantis I remember playing with is engaged. She's active. She's relevant and topical. The Mantis we're seeing here is anything but. The vast majority of her Votes seem like lulz/pressure Votes on easy {mostly Lurker} targets. She's made multiple 'I promise to do stuff' posts and yet I just don't feel the follow through.

Then there's this oddity. She was catching up and cluster posting on page 21 when her Vote for hiplop happened. It seems super manufactured and really doesn't sit well with me. In p518 she quotes p510, meaning that she's presumably read up to that part. Then she floats the idea of a hiplop Wagon in p519. Then in p520, she references my Vote on hiplop from p482, acting like she hadn't seen it before. This doesn't jive with her catchup order, though. Presumably, she'd read hiplop's p481, otherwise I'm at a loss for why she wanted to get a hiplopWagon up and running over any other Lurker.

And as previously mentioned, there's the remainder of her Votes. They just seem to lack conviction and are all 'easy' Votes. She goes back and forth over HS, but never tries to interact with him. She drops her Vote without him responding, yet doesn't reVote anyone for quite a while. In between her ReadsList in p307 and her second in p363, hiplop hasn't posted, but he's suddenly on her ScumReads {without her even mentioning him in between}.

[d3x]

So Konowa is being lazy and likes either Ansuz or HighShroomish votes since Konowa thinks the likelihood of Ansuz and HighShroomish being scum together is high.

Vote: Ansuz

For posterity, building on Tunnel's earlier post about Ansuz, distinction between hiplop and HighShroomish equals a big fat zero.

I like your thoughts, but due to geraintm being on the Ansuz wagon, I'll have no part. HS on the other hand is a wonderful D2 lynch idea.

VOTE: HighShroomish

Which of Konowa's thoughts exactly do you like?

[d3x]

Ugh. I've been very lax in my output Today and I appologize. Time to do some work.

Lynx v gp is Distraction v Distraction at this point. I'm begrudgingly inclined to have them both as Town at this juncture.

What does hiplop's words have to do with anything? He was a VT with no extra information.

Eh... While hiplop has no extra information, his opinion is 'pure'. Ignoring information and ConfTown's opinions is poor play. It doesn't mean that he was right, but it also doesn't mean we should immediately discount his thoughts just because he didn't have an Investigation result. This particular post left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

this makes me sad dex

I am truly sorry, but it's the way I'm reading you atm. I know you've responded to my case, but I haven't really read it yet. We'll pry engage more once I get there.

@OP p671- Just curious, but why no Vote on Ansuz here?

your mind going right to protective role is p scum-mindset

If it's his 1st game, does that change your opinion? Does his presumed lack of knowledge about Roles, etc not enter into it?

remember post, 363 of mine? i didn't have hiplop as a town read.

I'm not following you. I'm saying that in your 2 ReadsLists, hiplop had gone from Not Scum to Scum without posting or getting mentioned by you. I'd like to know what changed your mind.

@Kthx... I'm waiting...

[d3x]

The evolution of the hiplop Wagon...

VC 1.8 hiplop (1): d3x
VC 1.9 hiplop (4): d3x, Mantisdreamz, Burning_Earth, LynxKuroneko
VC 1.10 hiplop (6): d3x, Mantisdreamz, Burning_Earth, LynxKuroneko, Osseus pseudotripodis TunnelMates
VC1.11 hiplop (7): d3x, Mantisdreamz, Burning_Earth, Osseus pseudotripodis, TunnelMates, Ansuz, LynxKuroneko

-I Vote without spilling the beans on my reasoning.
-Mantis Votes after casually asking for a hiplop Wagon. Outside of 2 ReadsLists {previously linked}, she hasn't mentioned hiplop aside from asking TM why he's a ScumRead.
-BE Votes with a seeming appeasement Sheep. There has been light prodding, but nothing substansive regarding a Read since he originally pushed the early hiplop Wagon.
-Lynx Votes to push the Wagon as admitted later. His previous interactions/Reads feel genuine. He has hiplop middling on the Scum-Town List and expresses doubt numerous times.
-OP Votes "balls deep". They stated previously that hiplop's playstyle as Town gets Lurkish under pressure and that they warrant pressure. Their next few hiplop references follow this train of thought.
-TM Votes L-1 based off of tone. They previously had him as a ScumRead with no reasoning and did not mention him again until the Vote. Whether serious or not, they state that their ReadsList was randomly generated.

-note-
No case had been presented on hiplop until my p571. He had reached L-1 and then dropped back to L-2 with Lynx's UnVote.

-Ansuz Votes after being made aware that the Wagon is no longer L-1. They are the only players to post a case {or reasoning} aside from me. Built/pushed an early Wagon on hiplop. Questioned other's Reads on him. Consistantly held the Read on him throughout D1.
-Lynx Hammers after debating the merits thereof.

gp & Konowa listed TownReads on hiplop.
Kthx & geri posted support for the Lynch without being on it. Kthx rescinded his support based on the Wagoners and geri posted support after the Wagon had already reached L-1.
HS never mentioned hiplop and hadn't posted between the beginning of the Wagon and the Lynch.

I wanted to get all of this IIoA posted and I'll look into it tonorrow. My initial knee-jerk reaction to the raw data is that Mantis, BE, and TM look the scummiest out of the batch. I'm going to...

UnVote

...until I can evaluate this a bit more.

[d3x]

@Kthx- Did you Crumb? Are you Compulsive? Why have you not even mentioned my case on Mantis? Why didn't you do the VCA that you

always

do? Why are you assuming that you were shot at Last Night? Why on earth did you Claim? Why did it surprise you that no one mentioned your 'flip' in regards to me? Why do you think it's a 'waste of time' to answer my questions? Why are you back to HS/Josh being Scum in spite of this?

Hi Thor! Been a while

[welcome]Josh[/welcome]

[d3x]

Hi Mantis! I just got the baby up from his nap, so I'll pry not be able to fully engage.

I love you. I'm sorry. I still think you're scummy and the VCA isn't really helping that situation. I may resume Voting you again soon. Tell me why I shouldn't.

[d3x]

It started here. It's not finished, yet.

The evolution of the hiplop Wagon...

VC 1.8 hiplop (1): d3x
VC 1.9 hiplop (4): d3x, Mantisdreamz, Burning_Earth, LynxKuroneko
VC 1.10 hiplop (6): d3x, Mantisdreamz, Burning_Earth, LynxKuroneko, Osseus pseudotripodis TunnelMates
VC1.11 hiplop (7): d3x, Mantisdreamz, Burning_Earth, Osseus pseudotripodis, TunnelMates, Ansuz, LynxKuroneko

-I Vote without spilling the beans on my reasoning.
-Mantis Votes after casually asking for a hiplop Wagon. Outside of 2 ReadsLists {previously linked}, she hasn't mentioned hiplop aside from asking TM why he's a ScumRead.
-BE Votes with a seeming appeasement Sheep. There has been light prodding, but nothing substansive regarding a Read since he originally pushed the early hiplop Wagon.
-Lynx Votes to push the Wagon as admitted later. His previous interactions/Reads feel genuine. He has hiplop middling on the Scum-Town List and expresses doubt numerous times.
-OP Votes "balls deep". They stated previously that hiplop's playstyle as Town gets Lurkish under pressure and that they warrant pressure. Their next few hiplop references follow this train of thought.
-TM Votes L-1 based off of tone. They previously had him as a ScumRead with no reasoning and did not mention him again until the Vote. Whether serious or not, they state that their ReadsList was randomly generated.

-note-
No case had been presented on hiplop until my p571. He had reached L-1 and then dropped back to L-2 with Lynx's UnVote.

-Ansuz Votes after being made aware that the Wagon is no longer L-1. They are the only players to post a case {or reasoning} aside from me. Built/pushed an early Wagon on hiplop. Questioned other's Reads on him. Consistantly held the Read on him throughout D1.
-Lynx Hammers after debating the merits thereof.

gp & Konowa listed TownReads on hiplop.
Kthx & geri posted support for the Lynch without being on it. Kthx rescinded his support based on the Wagoners and geri posted support after the Wagon had already reached L-1.
HS never mentioned hiplop and hadn't posted between the beginning of the Wagon and the Lynch.

I wanted to get all of this IIoA posted and I'll look into it tonorrow. My initial knee-jerk reaction to the raw data is that Mantis, BE, and TM look the scummiest out of the batch. I'm going to...

UnVote

...until I can evaluate this a bit more.

[d3x]

At this exact moment, I'm happy with either Josh or BE Swinging.

Vote:Josh

[d3x]

d3x should should the larger Burning_Earth wagon then.

I considered it, but I'm a capitalist at heart. Competition should prove fruitful.

[d3x]

I wasn't Voting for you. Why did you think that I was?

[d3x]

@Kthx- I'm not sure why you would choose Thor over someone that's high on your ScumList. Verifying Town is fine, but eliminating Scum {or clearing them} is optimal, imo. A Cop result on Town is decent, but a Cop result on Scum is freaking awesome. Think of it this way, if you Hide behind Scum and die, you've outted Scum, proven your Claim, and thus 100% cleared me. If you Hide behind a Scum suspect and live, you've cleared an easy MisLynch for us. If the Scum Team then decides to off them b/c they're cleared... well, easy MisLynches usually aren't that helpful anyway. And you're still around.

p.edit- But then one of us would be untrue to the Cult.

[d3x]

Have no fear, Konowa. If my Vote is needed to end the Day with a BE Lynch, it'll be there.

[d3x]

A load of people just prod dodging through the end of the Day. I'm fine switching over and Lynching BE now.

Vote:BE

[d3x]

Konowa asks d3x to join Burning_Earth wagon, d3x graciously denies.
Konowa joins the Josh_B wagon, d3x votes Burning_Earth.

To be fair, I didn't ask you to switch. Nor did I attempt to drum up any support, but there were multiple Vote changes and positions taken. With the flip, we'll get some really good information. I'm going to be on whichever Wagon {Josh or BE} is closer come deadline.

[d3x]

@Kthx- I'm not sure why you would choose Thor over someone that's high on your ScumList. Verifying Town is fine, but eliminating Scum {or clearing them} is optimal, imo. A Cop result on Town is decent, but a Cop result on Scum is freaking awesome. Think of it this way, if you Hide behind Scum and die, you've outted Scum, proven your Claim, and thus 100% cleared me. If you Hide behind a Scum suspect and live, you've cleared an easy MisLynch for us. If the Scum Team then decides to off them b/c they're cleared... well, easy MisLynches usually aren't that helpful anyway. And you're still around.

[d3x]

I'll be on in an hour or so and my top priority will be catching up fully over the last weekish of the game. If anyone has any specific questions they'd like answers to, post them now and I'll make sure to include them in my catch up. I saw Kthx ask me some stuff ^, so that'll be in there.

[d3x]

Frankly, I dislike Josh's p1010 very much. The end relating to Konowa blatantly ignores that literally

hundreds

of posts occurred in between those 3 quoted posts.

@Ansuz- There's a post or two on page 40 that I'd be interested in hearing your responses. I think they're specifically aimed at you, so I'm not sure if you just missed them or...?

Josh's p1028 is also really gross. There are legitimate questions being posed to his strange posts/phrasing and he jumps to the old "why did you find my predecessor scummy?".

@Kthx- Right now, I'm feeling you Hiding behind Ansuz, us Lynching Josh, and geri Vig'ing BE. If Ansuz gets the Rope {which I'm against for Today}, then I'd say Hide behind Josh. Aside from my earlier reasons for you not to Hide behind Thor comes the ridonk 2 Day WIFOM. "O Noes! Kthx died, but Thor is alive! Is he actually delayed dead or is he Scum?!? Should we Lynch him or wait an extra freaking Day based on his delayed death Claim?"

I'm feeling ScumMantis less.

you better make your catch up good!!! .. ^-^

Dont hold your breath!

I think Lynx is just super easy MisLynch fodder.

Vote:Josh

[d3x]

Wait. I thought you became Hated when you angered the gods. Now you're Voteless?

[d3x]

Ah, I did miss the 2nd half of that.

Carry on.

[d3x]

Thank you for proving that I'm not tunneling even though you're complaining about how I'm tunneling.

I think she's refering to the player Tunnel as opposed to the singleminded hunting of a lone player.

[d3x]

I intend to be on the same wagon as Kthx and d3x at the end of the day for further wagon analysis. It'll put three confirmed town on the same wagon.

Are you speaking from your own perspective, or did I miss you and Kthx getting Conf'ed?

[d3x]

d3x, Konowa thinks that post #1247 is from Osseus pseudotripodis' perspective because Osseus pseudotripodis is likely to be shot by geraintm tonight by all accounts.

That's fine in regards to himself {although it annoys me when people refer to themselves as Conf when it's not true for the purposes of anyone else's perspective}, but I'm still not seeing how Kthx is ConfTown. He's an UnCC'ed PR who's cleared me, but that doesn't mean he's in the clear himself.

[d3x]

I'm not 100% sold on Kthx and I'm the one he 'cleared', ffs...

[d3x]

For the record {in case for some reason I don't get to post this before the Day ends}, if Tonight doesn't go apeshit crazyballs, Ansuz needs to Swing Tomorrow.

[d3x]

I'd like to hold that close to the vest for the nonce, but trust me.

This is seperate from the case that others are making on them.

[d3x]

This is horrible. If you think Lynx is mislynch fodder, we should just lynch burning earth. Can you point me back to why you thought Mantis was scum in the first place?

What about that rather sizable post is "terrible"? Why would I go for BE if I believe Lynx is MisLynch fodder? Why are you trying to deflect to Mantis over yourself? Why are you trying to imply that you're not on the table to be Lynched at this very moment? Why didn't you engage with any questions related to your previously linked terribad posting instead of just HandWaving at the case being built against you?

I still think Lynx is scum.

Then why aren't you Voting him?

Just because d3x is also town, doesn't mean he automatically has the best ideas.

And just because you call the ideas terrible doesn't make it so. Especially when you're not willing or able to point out

how

they're terrible.

These are the kinds of reactions that I would've expected from NewbScum Lynx or gp D1. The lack thereof are the reasons why I rethought my Reads N1 {once I gained a bit of distance from the situation}.

[d3x]

We're coming down to the wire, people. I'd say anyone not already doing so should post a reason that they're not Voting Josh. I don't know that I'm willing to move my Vote at this juncture {which means that the "ConfTown" Wagon train of Kthx and OP is sitting right here with me}.

[d3x]

Konowa is glad kthxbye is hiding behind LynxKuroneko Tonight as it will clear up quite a bit.

Reluctantly for me, but I agree...

[d3x]

We now have just over 28hrs and the closest Wagon is only at L-3. Considering we have 3 players that haven't even posted in the last 28hrs {and 1 player that can't Vote}, I'd say it's time to consolidate the Lynch Wagon.

[d3x]

Damn it Kthx, stop. Say you're Hiding behind 1 person and stop saying you'll switch Targets {this is what, the 3rd or 4th you've said you're Targeting?}. That's how WIFOM happens.

Hide behind Lynx. Your Hide isn't just for your own benefit, it's for the Town's. If you can sort out someone with a Wagon right now, you should. geraintm said he's taking care of Ansuz, so he's out. Stick to Lynx.

[d3x]

L-1, No Claim, 7hrs left... just saying.

[d3x]

I can confirm that Ansuz shot geri Last Night. He told me that he was going to. That's what I was elluding to here. Sadly however, I cannot confirm his alignment.

[d3x]

True, but I think the timing matters and should be factored into the equation. Once geri Claimed, Ansuz essentailly CC'ed and called his shot.

[d3x]

I went and looked and didn't see the pseudo counterclaim.
Can you show me it?

That is not within my power. I said that he CC'ed to me, not that he did so in thread.

[d3x]

Yeah, I saw that, too.

[d3x]

I'm not ready for the Day to end. I want to look back at earlier VCs and stack it up against the JoshWagon from Yesterday.

I'd also like to Confirm Konowa's Beloved status {as I thought that was a high priority Yesterday}.

Vote:Konowa

[d3x]

UnVote

Everyone had a bug in their ass over Konowa Yesterday, I don't see any reason why we should drag feet over this Today while the Modifier is still in place. No one was worried about a DerpHammer Yesterday, so I fail to see how the situation has changed.

Thor, why are you now completely uninterested to check the status? You were pretty keen on testing it Yesterday and especially so when the convenient PR slip happened.

[d3x]

Here's what I'm thinking re:Konowa and why I think it's important to completely verify his PR.

Scum can have Post Restrictions, so the veracity of the PR is in itself Null. I can see Scum having a Hated modifier and loss of Vote if they break the PR, so that's largely Null. I do not, however, see Scum having a Beloved modifier. Verifying this side of the PR pretty much clears him in my book {I'm already leaning Town, but this would eliminate all doubt and I don't see that as a bad thing}.

We also lose nothing by verifying the PR fully. While yes, you can potentially have a lolHammer; it'd be pretty much impossible if we do this correctly. We don't need a VC posted to show Konowa's still alive, we just need to put him at L-1, have him Vote himself, and then immediately UnVote like 2 seconds later. Per the Rules "no votes/unvotes will count after a majority vote has been reached." If he's lying, he dies when the next VC comes through. If a VC is posted and the Day hasn't been closed, we know that he's telling the truth about being Beloved. The only risk is that when he hits L-1 {for a normal player, but not himself},

2 players

come in and Vote him. I do not see this as being a viable scenario.

I'll get to everything else later tonight, but I still think fully sorting Konowa should happen Today.

[d3x]

@OP- Why do you think you're still alive?

[d3x]

Vote:Konowa

[d3x]

UnVote

Thank you for humoring me, guys.

I think the supposition that BE is Scum is weaker than OP being Scum. If Scum had knowledge of Mantis, then she'd easily be a priority target over 2x Town, imo.

I think it also may be time to start sorting out all the Claims. I guess it can wait until Tomorrow, but I feel like there's a shit ton of power on Town's side {assuming everyone who's piped up already is being truthful}.

Off the top of my head, we're looking at 2x Vigs, a Hider, a Role Cop, a Backup, a Loved/Hated townie, a whatever Thor is {I don't remember what gp said the Role's name was}, a whatever I've hinted at being... and a VT {two with BE}.

[d3x]

I think I'll be looking into VCA tonight {if I don't get a chance before then}. I feel like there's a wealth of info that's yet to be mined...

[d3x]

Hey OP.

@OP- Why do you think you're still alive?

Now for a few observations.

Mantis didn't get a 'bad' result from her N1 Investigation. She opens with a TM Vote and then switches to Ansuz. Initially it was a quote, but she doesn't change her Vote back to TM. I don't think we can clear anyone off of her, either. There seems to be no real flips from her Reads at the end of D1 to the beginning of D2 {unless I'm missing something}.

Lynch D1

hiplop

(7): d3x,

Mantisdreamz

, Burning_Earth, Osseus pseudotripodis, TunnelMates, Ansuz, LynxKuroneko
LynxKuroneko (3):

HighShroomish

, gameplay506,

hiplop

HighShroomish (2): Kthxbye, Konowa
Ansuz (1):

geraintm

Not Voting (0):

Lynch D2

Josh_B

(7): LynxKuroneko, d3x, Kthxbye, Thor665,

Mantisdreamz

, Osseus pseudotripodis,

geraintm

Burning_Earth (2): Ansuz,

Josh_B

Ansuz (1): Burning_Earth
LynxKuroneko (1): TunnelMates

Not Voting (0):

Josh's Vote on BE is Null. It was either Josh or BE D2.

HS/Josh's Voting record looks as such...
TM, Lynx, Lynx, BE
I don't see the amount of time spent on pushing Lynx as a Bus. It was his only real contribution to the game. TM was an early RVS Vote and BE was a late 'him or me' Vote. It is interesting that Lynx was left off of the ReadsList, though.

At the time of his death, Josh's ReadList was...

Kthx is town.
D3x is town.
Osseus is town.

MantisDreamz

is town.
Burning Earth is town.
Gameplay is town.

LYNCH EVERYONE else in this order...
Tunnelmates
Ansuz

Gerantim

No, if we lynched ozzy and he turned up scum, then I would shoot Ansuz as he is the person I think is the person second most likely to be scum. Why on earth would I shoot anyone else besides my second choice?
I am just not understanding your thinking. At all

What if we lynch Burning earth and he turns up scum. Who will you shoot then?

This is an interesting post, given what we now know.

With the above information coupled with my previous VCA, I'm more inclined to see BE Swing Today. Having said that, I will be on either BE or OP for the Lynch Today.

Oh, and Kthx- F you, buddy.

[d3x]

There's also the issue of Ansuz being a hydra. One head having work should allow for the other to post. Should...

[d3x]

Are you shitting me, Lynx? Did you read my post? The Vote on BE was to save his own ass. He made almost no actual effort to build up the Wagon, it was as if he was just expected to crossVote because that's SOP. In fact, in my quick refresher skim just now, 1 of the 3 times he mentions BE after the Vote, he actually lists him as TOWN.

What specifically makes you think that about his BE Vote?

[d3x]

Mafia 101
A Scum's ReadList is never pointless.

The only players in the game who know everyone's alignment are Scum. That means Josh's List has nothing to do with his Reads. Scum posting ReadsLists have to be very discerning in that they have to be grounded in what's actually happening in the game, but not being so far off that if your partners get caught, you're too obvious. Generally speaking, Scum will have a partner in the Scum/Null pile and the rest in the Town pile.

[d3x]

That reinforces my position on Lynx based on my above post, but I don't think it neccessarily excludes BE from possible Scum. He didn't Vote until he absolutely had to {it would've looked really suspicious had he not} and then still listed him as Town.

[d3x]

Oh, I forgot to post this above, but the D1 Lynch VC speaks very strongly to go/Thor, Kthx, and Konowa being Town.

[d3x]

That puts 2 Scum in TM, OP, BE, and Ansuz.

Lynch one of BE or OP, Hide behind the other, and have Lynx check out Ansuz. This is the path to glory.

[d3x]

Sorry for the back-to-backs, but I was phoneposting. I'm at my computer now and would like to expound on the above thoughts.

Lynch D1

hiplop

(7): d3x,

Mantisdreamz

, Burning_Earth, Osseus pseudotripodis, TunnelMates, Ansuz, LynxKuroneko
LynxKuroneko (3):

HighShroomish

, gameplay506,

hiplop

HighShroomish (2): Kthxbye, Konowa
Ansuz (1):

geraintm

Not Voting (0):

Lynch D2

Josh_B

(7): LynxKuroneko, d3x, Kthxbye, Thor665,

Mantisdreamz

, Osseus pseudotripodis,

geraintm

Burning_Earth (2): Ansuz,

Josh_B

Ansuz (1): Burning_Earth
LynxKuroneko (1): TunnelMates

Not Voting (0):

It's highly improbable that Scum would end the Day Bussing a losing battle into HS when they could garner an easy ride onto the hiplopWagon. That makes Kthx and Konowa look pretty good.
It's even more highly improbable that 2 Scum would be pushing the same nonLynch Wagon; especially considering there were only 3 Votes on said Wagon. That makes gp/Thor look great.

[d3x]

Lol...

Vote:BE

[d3x]

hiding behind OP tonight.

Vote:OP

I thank you for your service.

[d3x]

I'm not following why ScumOP means there has to be multiple nonTown killing factions. The only Night with multiple deaths was the Night with multiple Vig shot Claims. That is aside from Last Night, where our Hider died behind his Target.

[d3x]

@OP- Please answer my question from Yesterday.

@OP- Why do you think you're still alive?

Is it your contention that HS/Josh had not a single Vote on Town for the entire game? Also that AnsuzScum would be pushing a counterWagon on his PR Scum partner over his Vanilla Scum partner D2?

[d3x]

@Thor- I'm trying to, man. I'm rather sick right now, but what you're saying isn't jiving with my brain. Why do you not believe that we have 2 1-Shot Vigs?

[d3x]

Lynx better not have Investigated you...

[d3x]

N3's 2 deaths were a bodyguard and a Hider. There's only 1 kill.

The easiest explanation for N2 is a BP OPScum.

[d3x]

Or a selftargeting ScumDoc...

[d3x]

I'd have to dig for it, but I'm fairly certain I've been in a game with 2 1shot Vigs here before.

[d3x]

What am I missing here?

2 players Claimed 1shot Vig. 1 shot is unaccounted for. 1 player has Claimed Doc {and we're all pretty much in agreement that he's a self targeting Mafia Doc}. The missing Vig shot was supposed to be on the {Mafia}Doc.

I'd have to dig for it, but I'm fairly certain I've been in a game with 2 1shot Vigs here before.

So?
Unless you're claiming 1-shot Vig I don't see the point of even considering it.

Does this mean that you're fine with Ansuz being a 1shot Vig and you're off the 2nd nonTown killing faction theory?

[d3x]

I am a one shot vig (with a few extra caveats to it).

I shot geraintm last night.
I'm a one-shot vig, and I have no caveats whatsoever to my ability.
Discuss.

[d3x]

geraintm, Town One Shot Strong-Willed Vigilante/Day 1 Vengeful, Killed Night 2

The Mod isn't lying by saying he's a 1shit, though.

[d3x]

lmao... /1shot...

[d3x]

Ofc we should hear from Lynx. But unless there's some crazyballs damning info there, OP swings. I still don't see how OP being Scum means 2 nonTown killing roles, though. Or is that now cleared up?

[d3x]

I'd like to see Ansuz offer anything and Lynx offer results, then I'm game for a lynch.

This.

[d3x]

Although, if Lynx's results come back how I think there's going to come back, I don't care if Ansuz checks in or not.

[d3x]

I agree. He's made a fair amount of noise in the QT about being overrun at work and Desp just being checked out. He hasn't posted there since 9/7, but I think I miffed him a bit when I said he needed to die if geri didn't go toes up N2.

[d3x]

That clenches it. We Lynch OP. If the game isn't over, we Lynch Ansuz.

[d3x]

/le sigh...

[d3x]

Here's the Neighborhood QT. I thought Ansuz and Kthx may be Scum together early on, so I was trying to feed him information that, if it manifested in thread, would confirm the two of them as Scum.

@Lynx- You are in the wrong. There are so many easier, more concise ways you could've gone about giving your Role information without getting ModKilled for quoting. It 100% is your fault that Thor didn't understand, because you were being obtuse about it. You could've said... "If a player has more than one ability or utility, I only get a single randomly picked result". You didn't have to spread it out cryptically across 5 posts. And finally, why the hell did you sign up for a nonNormal game as your first outting? I can't seem to escape players that sign up for games where they are clearly out of their depth and should be swimming in the kiddie pool for a few laps. Experience would've told you that a weak Doc isn't watered down, it's a secondary passive ability. Presumably, this was in your RolePM to directly tell you that you only get a single result for a Role that has multiple uses or abilities.

@Kthx- You're not off the hook just because you were redirected. You still didn't target OP.

[d3x]

@ffery- The Spoilered Dead QT is the same as the Neighborhood QT

@Kthx- No. If a Hider reveals him/herself, their job becomes one of transparency so that the Town knows what to do in the event of their death. If Thor was Scum and there was no redirect, we would've done the same thing. It's the wrong play. Period.

[d3x]

It's like High School Math. You only get 1/2 credit for the right answer if your work is wrong. If your gambit had worked, it would still be the wrong play, even if we'd have won.

[d3x]

No one is saying that you're completely inept at Mafia, stop being dramatic. I believe you are a very good player, but good players can make bad plays and bro, you made one. There are good ways to play a Role and there are bad ways to play a Role. Lynching a Cop to find out if he's telling the truth about his Investigations is a bad play, but that doesn't mean that you don't get good information from it.

[d3x]

I didn't see it anywhere, but since this wasn't NAR, could we see the actual action resolution, plz? I'm guessing it was just Redirector->hider->everything else, but I'd like to know for certain.

[d3x]

If you just wanted to live through the Night and were really

that

sure of your Read on Thor, you should just chosen not to Hide.

[d3x]

Well, we all know that the wiki is infallible. Afterall, it says Hider can't be targeted.

[d3x]

All the actions are listed in the Mod Notes.