Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[Bins]

guys, stop putting yourself on your own reads list, there's no point to doing that, it just pisses me off.
and no Bins you're not automatically off the suspicion list just because you finally did the thing people were trying to get you to do for several days
even if they're all null at worst, lol, but whatever... that doesn't really help anyone though, no offense. you don't think anyone is scum.

I've said that like a billion times. I'm working on it.

Certian there's one in the people being inactive.

[Parama]

actually okay, no. A big chunk of your arguments seem to hinge on Bins being scum, yes?

I

did

propose a Bins/Akane scumteam before that post.

I checked to make sure you were voting Bins, which you are. That's good then, because you have no reason to be voting Akane over Bins given your case.

I guess that's a fair point but he had to at least be conscious of something like that if he is scum;

prior to his reads post he doesn't mention Reck at all

, so putting him scum there and town later is kind of honest; he easily could've put reck town before and after and nobody would be able to call him out on it

Uh. Yes? I do? Granted I never call him scum or town, but I do mention him.

Yes you acknowledged he existed, but you had nothing mentioned towards him other than "he did a bad thing but Bins did a worse thing" which is also like "ignore this awful thing reck did" and then immediately after the next mention is that he's a townread; what I'm saying is that it'd have been easy for you to slip in "no I thought he was town all along, he just did a dumb thing" and you didn't
which is a conscious effort thing.
I forgot what I was saying, dammit.

guys, stop putting yourself on your own reads list, there's no point to doing that, it just pisses me off.

Why do you care? That's a very silly thing to get angry over.

It's a subtle thing but it's annoying because it's an unnecessary re-affirmation of one's towniness. Town don't need to reaffirm they're town.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Town don't need to reaffirm they're town.

Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king.

Aaaaaaaand now I'm gonna go do that reread, see you guys in a few hours x_x

[Grib]

Well, I do it every game. I'd make an exception for the rest of the game, but I wouldn't want to summon the wrath of NM the Knowledgeable.

[Akane Kurashiki]

dat reread post! *insert rainbows and sparkles here*

names and page numbers bolded for readability, post numbers in parentheses. This may make more sense if you have another tab open and read along with me, because I'm trying not to make this any more of a wallpost than it needs to be but I also want to be thorough.

Page 1:

Not much going on here. But I actually kind of like that

Reck

rolled in and tried to preemptively shut down pages of setup discussion nonsense (13), but I don't agree with the reasoning (and on the flip side, it could potentially be trying to shut down town use of a useful mechanic) and then he pretty much completely negates this by immediately diving into more setup discussion for the rest of the page.

ThirtyFour

gets some small points for being one of the first people to ask a scumhunting question (17) aside from my weak question before to

Bins

(7).

ThirtyFour's

(23) doesn't seem nearly as big a deal on a re-read.

Page 2:

Reck's

line of questioning @

Jackel

seems legit (26 and 27), but then

Flames

jumps all over it (28) and makes it all slimy. I mean, maybe he had a derp moment, but he serious-voted someone for something that was blatantly untrue. I don't know how to feel about this. Also "Damn, already out of RVS" gives me scum vibes.

Jackel's

(29) kinda eh but fine in context I guess.

Reck

asks another good question (38).

Flames'

(39) is just... what? He voted on a blatantly false premise to get a reaction and unvotes when pressured? It seems really forced to me, and not in a good way.

Reck

gives early reads without prompting (42). What the hell is this? Am I even reading the same game anymore?

Parama

towns it up, nothing else to see here really (45).

Page 3:

(53) and onward... not really sure how

Parama

didn't understand what

Bins'

RVS vote was...? I kinda doubt it's willful obtuseness though, since it doesn't last long (66). I can kind of see how

ThirtyFour's

(61) might be cautious town although the unvote still rubs me the wrong way. Reading the rest of the post again it looks like he was trying to put some content out there and not just unvoting because "scurred of quicklynch ohnoes" like I originally read it as, so it seems not as bad in that context. In particular it seems like he was genuinely trying to read

Parama

. Having no reads whatsoever on page 3 is still pretty bad but, in that context, not as incriminating as I felt it was before.

Page 4:

I start the wagon on

ThirtyFour

(81). But on reread I'm not seeing him as nearly as scummy so far. It just doesn't seem like as big a deal as I thought it was at the time.

Reckoner

jumps from a presumably RVS me-vote to sheeping my wagon with no reasons or additional input -- I think this is where he really starts to go downhill (85).

Jackel

tries to get him to explain (86), and he does (93) but it feels... idk, unsatisfactory? More questions fly around and stuff,

ThirtyFour

still seems to be trying to develop reads (88, 94, 95).

In hindsight

Flames'

unvote seems much, much worse than

ThirtyFour's

, especially given future context of the former's slot being lurkalicious.

Reckoner

defends

Flames

on super, super weak reasoning (97) and now I'm wondering if they're scum together. It would also explain why

Reck

gets more belligerent and goes from seeming null-town to strongly anti-town as the game goes on -- it fucking

sucks

to basically be playing scum by yourself with a buddy who won't play the game, and

yonce

, the

Flames

replacement, is lurking too... I'll get to this post in my reread at some point but I remember

Parama

posting at some point that

Flames

was posting elsewhere but not in our game. Another point to add to the pile, although it would be a stronger one if he hadn't then been replaced.

... I don't want to end this here but real life calls so I'm just gonna post what I have now. Better to break it up so it's not so overwhelming anyway, I guess. I'll be able to resume this in another hour or so hopefully.

super awesome tl;dr for the lazy: Contemplating Reck + Flames/yonce scumteam. ThirtyFour/Grib significantly less scummy on re-read, just really not seeing this time what I saw before. Jackel asks some questions and shit and isn't entirely useless; faintly on the town side of null. Parama does town things. Not_Mafia was just kinda there but not really comment-worthy. Everyone else was just kinda not there for the most part.

[Parama]

13 - Mostly he was trying to get those groups for his claim, or so he says; those numbers work out in his favor
I dunno what else to really comment on there
Except I agree with your thoughts on NM I guess, he's probably the most pure-null read I have at this point

[Akane Kurashiki]

I have a townish read on him actually but I'm trying to reread with an open mind. Doesn't do me (or anyone else) any good if I don't question and re-evaluate my reads while I do this.

Gettin' back to it now, I guess

[Zero the Ninth]

LYNCH VOTE

Bins (2) - Grib, Parama
Akane Kurashiki (0) -
Quilford (0) -
yoncé (1) - Parama
Parama (1) - xRECKONERx
Not_Mafia (0) -
xRECKONERx (2) - Akane Kurashiki, Jackel98
Grib (1) - Not_Mafia
Jackel98 (1) - Bins

Not Voting - yoncé, Quilford

DOOR VOTE

Bins - [yoncé, Grib, Jackel98 - 3], [Bins, Akane Kurashiki, Quilford, Not_Mafia, Parama - 8]
Akane Kurashiki - [Bins, Not_Mafia, Quilford, yoncé - 5], [Parama, ThirtyFour, Akane Kurashiki, Jackel98 - 6]
Quilford - [Parama, Quilford, yoncé, Akane Kurashiki - 5], [Bins, Jackel98, Not_Mafia, Grib - 6]
Flames682 -
Parama -
Not_Mafia -
xRECKONERx - [Akane Kurashiki, yoncé, ThirtyFour - 5], [Quilford, Parama, xRECKONERx - 6], [Bins, Not_Mafia, Jackel98 - 7]
Grib - [Jackel98, Akane Kurashiki, Quilford - 5], [Not_Mafia, Parama, yoncé - 6]
Jackel98 - [Parama, Quilford, yoncé, Akane Kurashiki - 5], [Bins, Jackel98, Not_Mafia, Grib - 6]

Current Plurality - [Parama, Quilford, yoncé, Akane Kurashiki - 5], [Bins, Jackel98, Not_Mafia, Grib - 6]

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch (5 to No Lynch). Deadline will be Saturday, August 30th at 4pm EST.

Not_Mafia's Door-Vote in 383 (and 285) will be counted despite technically incorrect formatting.

xRECKONERx's vote in 341 is not counted due to incorrect tags.

Prod timers will be shortened to 48 hours/48 to respond, starting on Day 2.

[Bins]

Hmmm. It's iffy but I'm willing to say Jackel is town, and Flames, too. That may change though.

VOTE: Akane

@ Reckoner: Why was flames being put at L-1 not a real wagon?

Because Flames is town and that wagon was silly.

You think Flames/Reck?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Still doing reread, it's just taking forever and my brain was starting to melt so I decided to take a little break and catch up on the current posts.

yeah, for what little flames posted he seemed scummy, and now the slot has been lurking forever which on its own is null but it would explain Reck's frustration with the game really well. Especially since he didn't seem to start out the game seeming frustrated and yet was starting to look more frustrated even before the wagon on him took off (isos 18-21, especially 20, and 19 if you look at it in context), discrediting the idea that he was frustrated because he was being wagoned (although I'm sure that didn't help).

There's a lot of PoE in that mix there too because I have several town reads and some of my nuller reads just don't work with Reck!scum (example: quilford-Reck team doesn't make sense to me at all).

If I'm wrong on Reck then the case on Flames/yonce is MUCH much weaker but I happen to think that's pretty good deduction work considering the entire slot has only made like 8 posts all game, most of which were completely contentless. I'd also want to reassess some nuller reads in the event of a reck!town flip for the same reason. But I really don't think I'm wrong on this so it's w/e.

Why did you quote those posts though?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Basically I think he went into the game with the intention of actually trying to look town and then that got shot all to hell when he got stuck with a lame duck buddy (by the time the wagon on Reck was forming, Flames already hadn't been around for several days). That plus his defense on Flames, and yeah. Getting snippy with yonce later could be a halfhearted attempt at distancing or something or maybe he was just really pissed that his replacement didn't immediately come in and kick ass.

I guess Jackel could also be the buddy along mostly similar reasoning but I think it's less likely

Bins doesn't really fit the theory because she's at least been very definitely

around

even if she hasn't really done much of anything

34/Grib could maybe be the buddy (would explain the weird vote switcharooing Reck did) but I feel like my bias is talking here since they've both voted me so I'm inclined to dismiss that pairing on the grounds of "I'm too paranoid" and also 34 seeming way more town on my reread so far

note that this is an evolving theory since I haven't finished my reread, so I might dig up more to support it or find something that makes me retract it entirely. But right now it makes sense to me.

[Quilford]

I'll post in a bit.

[Akane Kurashiki]

hey guise I rediscovered post tags, isn't it great? (thanks, post 118, for reminding me)

Spoiler: long reread post, pp 5-6

Page 5: Parama's

100 has a

very

consistent tone and feel to when he pressures

Bins

much later on for similar reasons. It's not exactly a secret that I don't think

Parama

is scum, but if he is, I think this weakly supports a theory that neither

Bins

or

ThirtyFour/Grib

is the buddy. Mostly just stating that for future reference. Also noting 101 for future reference. 104 is still terrible AtE but on reread it strikes me that it reads almost like a twilight post -- like he's a townie that feels like he's already been lynched and is begging town to listen to his thoughts one last time before the mod comes in to lock the thread. And it kind of was since he replaced out shortly afterward. Whoops. Yeah, the rest of his iso is reading very much like townie that can't handle pressure to me now.

112 has one bit that rubs me the wrong way -- namely

Parama

tells

ThirtyFour

not to make a certain kind of post and I remember just dismissing it at the time but it really doesn't make sense to me. Why is asking for a specific read scummy? Why did

ThirtyFour

get called out on this and not anyone else who's (probably) done it since -- at least, not that I remember? It's the only thing I've seen that makes me doubt my read on

Parama

so far but it's really bothering me now. 116:

ThirtyFour

says "

Parama

is fine now" but doesn't unvote...? I think I'm just gonna chalk that up to the fact that he was thinking of replacing out at that point but it is very odd. Post 120: Oh hey look,

Bins

actually kind of posted a read without being pressured to!

Page 6:

126 is a

Reckoner

post, turns out he took issue with the same part of a

Parama

post that I did above, which is noteworthy. Srsvotes me though without any reasons, hopping off the wagon I started to do so, creating a weird

Akane-34-Akane

sandwich. I mean this is definitely subject to bias since the votes are on me but to me that just says that he doesn't really care where his vote is and clearly isn't considering any interactions when he votes. (

Quilford

makes a similar observation on this point later on.) 128: this post strikes me as a really scummy response but then again posting stupid gifs as a response is

also

a very Reck thing to do so maybe this is a tell that he hasn't been taken over by bodysnatchers more than anything (and if he tries to deny this thing too because OMG META I am going to throw something. )

129:

Jackel

, from what I've observed, seems to have a habit of asking good questions but otherwise being completely null. Because they all seem really "safe" and

Jackel

really hasn't done anything risky or stuck her neck out for anything, this actually makes me read

Jackel

as scummier. She seems to be posting just enough to not really get noticed. 135 strikes me as town, though.

131 ok, I think this is where my gut-town read on

Bins

started. Since it's gut, it's hard to articulate, but I think

Bins'

general playstyle has been ... carefree, I guess? I just think scum are usually more careful and conservative in the way they post (barring the the occasional outlier) and this is a good example of a "didn't think about the repercussions, just posted" post to me. Also this applies to the game now moreso than to the reread directly but I think I'm just gonna sheep

Not_Mafia

when it comes to

Bins

unless he dies or I stop thinking he's townish or

Bins

starts acting scummy and not just anti-town.

144 is that one I was thinking of earlier where

Parama

notes that

Flames

was posting in other games.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm done doing rereads for today. My brain hurts.

Maybe tomorrow. Or maybe I'll be lazy and never continue it, because it's really time consuming to analyze, cross-reference things with isos and other pages when necessary, and then write everything out.

idk.

[Jackel98]

Sorry for not posting more, but half of the time I don't know what to post. Most of your posts are directed are directed at specific people, and anything I want to point out is ninja'd. That combined with Real Life makes it hard to post as much as I want to.

[Quilford]

I'll post in a bit.

*grumble*

I lied!

Tomorrow!

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Akane

It's unreal to me that you call in the meta when it's about my supposed "claim style" and use that to discredit my claim... but you conveniently don't know what is probably the biggest part of my meta, which me becoming more belligerent as the game goes on. That's ridiculous to me. If ANYONE knows ANYTHING about me as a player, they know that I'm a belligerent asshole, yet here you seemingly have

~*~*~nooooo ideaaaaaa~*~*~

about that and instead insist that my belligerence is somehow related to me having a shitty scumbuddy? Seriously

what the fuck

?

[xRECKONERx]

ALSO OF NOTE: I am a claimed power role that can confirm myself and Akane is

still

voting me. Her catchup wasn't a chance to reread and figure out who else to lynch, her catchup was just a way to twist whatever happened in the game thread into a "reason" for keeping her vote on me.

How is nobody else seeing this?

[Parama]

because you're obscenely biased because she's attacking specifically you, I'm not 100% on-board with what she's saying but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.
for one your claim is something she already said she's ignoring, so using that as an argument against her doesn't work. she knows your claim, and doesn't care about it.

[xRECKONERx]

SHE SPENT AN ENTIRE POST TRYING TO DISCREDIT MY CLAIM BECAUSE IT'S A "RECK CLAIM".

[xRECKONERx]

Here's the problem I have. It's two pointed:

#1) Akane tries to discredit my claim

from the get go

by saying that it's my meta to make claims like this AND that it's MORE LIKELY to be a lie than to be true (with no actual backing as to why).

#2) Akane uses really obscure meta on me to discredit my claim (and refuses to cite sources on that meta), but then completely disregards probably the MOST WELL KNOWN ASPECT of my meta because disregarding it helps her paint me as scummy.

[Bins]

Sorry for not posting more, but half of the time I don't know what to post. Most of your posts are directed are directed at specific people, and anything I want to point out is ninja'd. That combined with Real Life makes it hard to post as much as I want to.

Explain your scumread on me.

[xRECKONERx]

Also, something from something I was skimming earlier made me not like Bins that much but I don't remember what it was.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Wow, okay, let's stop this misrepping bullshit in its tracks.

(1)Wow, Reck's claim is kind of genius, but I don't believe it for a second. (2)And I'm afraid of a scenario where he "uses his role" targeting his scumbuddy, scumbuddy is like "lol yeah he's town" and then they coast to an easy victory. (3)And it just feels so slimy to me because it's

exactly

the kind of fakeclaim bullshit shenanigans that's Reck's style. (4)We could even try to negate this situation by dictating who he "confirms" to, but then he or his scumbuddy can just kill that person and be like "welp I confirmed myself to them but now they're dead trololol"

(5)It's too completely perfect to be real, wow. (6)Basically there's a bunch of scenarios where he could be have "confirmed" without actually confirming anything. (7)But then on the 1% chance it's actually true, it seems really bad to lynch it... arrrrrgh.

Someone else should weigh in on this... it's making my brain hurt

Leaving my vote where it is for now and doing a reread in the meantime, I guess.

Here is the post in question. I have added numbers on each of the sentences (except the last two because they're not part of my argument for disbelieving the claim).

Exactly ONE sentence in that post is about disbelieving the claim because of meta. The other SIX SENTENCES are disbelieving the claim because it's too damn convenient with too much wiggle room to get out ever actually being "confirmed." This is blatantly obvious to anyone with working eyeballs and yet Reck is CHOOSING to latch onto it because it conveniently allows him to park his vote on me (someone who has been voting him for quite a while) and yell and scream about nothing useful.

When was the last time Reck did anything actually pro-town? What is the ratio of helpful posts to rage and hot air?

Can we fucking lynch it already?

[Jackel98]

Sorry for not posting more, but half of the time I don't know what to post. Most of your posts are directed are directed at specific people, and anything I want to point out is ninja'd. That combined with Real Life makes it hard to post as much as I want to.

Explain your scumread on me.

I'm pretty sure it was a mix of an OMGUS read on you and PoE. Really bad PoE (like horribly, mind-bogglingly bad), but it was the best I had. I don't have the same reads as then, but I still feel Reck is probably scum, and yonce is a wildcard.