[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[BBmolla]

Been trying to come up with a setup that has Gunmakers, which gives any player one day shot.

13 Players
Mafia:
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Reflector(If shot during day, kills whoever shot them.)
1 Mafia FedEx Driver(Picks two players. If a gun is given to player A, player B recieves it instead.)

Town:
2 of the following{
33% for Tracker
33% for Watcher
33% for Two Shot Vestmaker[Gives a vest to a player. If that player is shot, it will instead hit the vest. Vests can only be hit once, after that the player will die.
}
1 Gunmaker(Gives a gun to another player each night. The player is told they recieved the gun and may use it during the day to daykill someone.)
1 Noobie Gunmaker(Has a 50% chance to give a player a normal gun, a 35% chance to give a player a gun that fires blanks, and a 15% not to give a gun at all. Is not told they are Noobie.)
6 VTs

Thoughts?
I can't mod for another month, but I've just been thinking up setups.

[BBmolla]

Wouldn't the Reflector become obvscum?

He dies in the process. He's essentially a Mafia Day Bomb. His point, in addition to the Fed Ex's, was to prevent Gunning the PR.
Newb Gunmaker was there to have two Gunmakers, but also have it so guns don't possibly work, which may turn out badly for the person who shot it, and not getting a gun at all, making the Gunmaker look suspicious.
However, if we get rid of Fedex, I may have a solution.

Gunmakers and Funtakers

13 Players
Mafia:
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Day Bomb(If shot during day, dies, but also kills whoever shot them.)
1 Mafia Roleblocker

Town:
2 of the following{
33% for Tracker
33% for Watcher
33% for Two Shot Vestmaker[Gives a vest to a player. If that player is shot, it will instead hit the vest. Vests can only be hit once, after that the player will die.
}
2 Gunmakers(Gives a gun to another player each night. The player is told they recieved the gun and may use it during the day to daykill someone.)
6 VTs

Roleblocker could prevent PR's from claiming, and Day Bomb could prevent Gunmakers from gunning the obvious PR.

Also, what are the rules regarding non-normal roles in setups?

[BBmolla]

Gunmakers and Funtakers

13 Players
Mafia:
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Day Bomb(If shot during day, dies, but also kills whoever shot them.)
1 Mafia Roleblocker

Town:
1 Day-Doc(Chooses someone at night to protect during the day)
1 Night-Doc(Normal Doc)
2 Gunmakers(Gives a gun to another player each night. The player is told they recieved the gun and may use it during the day to daykill someone.)
6 VTs

?

[BBmolla]

Gunmakers and Funtakers

13 Players
Mafia:
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Day Bomb(If shot during day, dies, but also kills whoever shot them.)
1 Mafia Roleblocker

Town:
1 Day-Doc(Chooses someone at night to protect during the day)
1 Night-Doc(Normal Doc)
2 Gunmakers(Gives a gun to another player each night. The player is told they recieved the gun and may use it during the day to daykill someone.)
6 VTs

?

I really like this concept. Should the roleblocker be able to block daykills, too? Would be an interesting addition. Might make it unbalanced toward the mafia, though. Would people be allowed to stack/bank guns? Or does an unused gun disappear at the end of the day?

Hm.
I feel that if guns disappeared it would influence people to shoot more, so I feel like people should keep guns they get.
No stacking guns though. One gun would be it.

Ideally, this is probably how it would play out.

13 players D1
10 players D2
7 players D3
4 players D4

Of course, things could happen, like gunmakers being roleblocked and such.

Due to the above ending with 4, I could either possibly remove a VT to make it:
12 players D1
9 players D2
6 players D3
3 players D4

I think Roleblocker can block any action originally performed at night, aka, Day Doc, Night Doc, and Gunmakers. People may not be stopped from shooting though.

[BBmolla]

So Goon becomes Jester d3 essentially. Amirite?

[BBmolla]

- Bad Politics -

- 12 players -
1 Vengeful Mafia
1 Mafia Impeacher(Chooses a player, if that player is Governor the next day, he will not be allowed to overturn the lynch.)
1 Mafia Goon
8 Townies
1 Pollmaster(Is informed on who voted who during the night, and who the Governor is.)

Starts with a kill-less N0.
On this N0, all players elect a player to be the "Governor". The player who is elected is not informed they were elected till the end of D1.

Day proceeds as usual, until the lynch.
The Governor is informed that he was elected and can choose to lynch any player who has at least 1 vote on them. He must make this decision publicly.

After that, the player is no longer the Governor and gets his old role back. Votes occur each night by all players including mafia.

Impeacher is essentially a Governor-only-role-blocker, and Pollmaster is essentially a Vote-Tracker, so I don't think the roles are

too

un-normal. I tried to give the mafia a lot of power considering the town pretty much has total control over the lynch unless they accidentally govern mafia. Thoughts?

[BBmolla]

Here's my question about the above setup: Why wouldnt Jesters just claim Jesters so the town can lynch them and not waste anyone's time?

[BBmolla]

Maybe a Jester team who wins if both of them are lynched and ends the game?

Overall Jester shouldn't be used IMO.

[BBmolla]

- Bad Politics -

- 12 players -
1 Vengeful Mafia
1 Mafia Impeacher(Chooses a player, if that player is Governor the next day, he will not be allowed to overturn the lynch.)
1 Mafia Goon
8 Townies
1 Pollmaster(Is informed on who voted who during the night, and who the Governor is.)

Starts with a kill-less N0.
On this N0, all players elect a player to be the "Governor". The player who is elected is not informed they were elected till the end of D1.

Day proceeds as usual, until the lynch.
The Governor is informed that he was elected and can choose to lynch any player who has at least 1 vote on them. He must make this decision publicly.

After that, the player is no longer the Governor and gets his old role back. Votes occur each night by all players including mafia.

Impeacher is essentially a Governor-only-role-blocker, and Pollmaster is essentially a Vote-Tracker, so I don't think the roles are

too

un-normal. I tried to give the mafia a lot of power considering the town pretty much has total control over the lynch unless they accidentally govern mafia. Thoughts?

Can I get some thoughts on this?

[BBmolla]

Based off of Carbon-14.

Oxygen-18

2 Mafia Goons, 2 Werewolves, or 2 Bandits.
5 Townies
2 of (Cop, Seer, Sheriff)

Cop gets Mafia or Not Mafia
Seer gets Werewolf or Not Werewolf
Sheriff gets Bandit or Not Bandit.

It is possible to have Cop and Seer with Bandits, Seer and Sheriff with Mafia, and Cop and Sheriff with Werewolves.

Thoughts?

[BBmolla]

Yes, it's either 2 Mafia, 2 Werewolves, or 2 Bandits.

Realized I didn't make that very clear.

[BBmolla]

2 of 3 investigative, 1 of 3 Anti Town faction. They are irrelevent to each other. Never two of same investigative PR though, yeah.

[BBmolla]

Jester Is A Terrible Role And I Should Be Ashamed Of This Setup

5 Vengeful Townies
1 Idiotic Cop(During the night, chooses a player. Will either get "Not Third Party" or "Third Party."
1 Jester Rolecop
1 One-Shot Dayvig Lyncher(Jester as target)
2 Mafia Goons

• *If Jester is lynched, game ends.
  * Jester does not know who lyncher is.
  * Can not No Lynch
  * Town wins if there is no remaining Mafia.
  * Jester/Lyncher win if jester is lynched, regardless of whether lyncher is dead.
  * If Jester dies, Lyncher commits suicide.
  * Mafia win if they have equal or more numbers to each of the other factions in the game. (2-2-2 is mafia win)

[BBmolla]

Jester is his target, so yes.

[BBmolla]

2v2v10 is enormous. My goal was to make this setup as small as possible.

The worst possible scenario is a day 2 LYLO, which makes it essentially a 7P setup. However, there are lots of possiblities in regards to who is lynched, who is vengekilled(or if there even is one) and who is night killed.

Also a lyncher not saving day-vig for Idiotic Cop is a moron. Just saying.

[BBmolla]

Hrm. I see what you're saying.

Could make Fool nightkill bulletproof. Or remove the Third Party cop.

TBH I was worried about fool/lyncher being too overpowered, but I may have overdone it.

I originally considered not giving Mafia a nightkill, but I felt it would make them too underpowered.

Maybe make it so that the Vengeful shot can not kill town. If you target town, the shot does not go through. This would reduce the deaths.

Edit: Yes, lyncher shot is strictly for Idiotic Cop.

Maybe I should give lyncher/fool factional daytalk?

[BBmolla]

^I like that setup actually. Why Jailkeeper though?

[BBmolla]

Maybe EM Jailkeeper where you keep someone from their night QT?

That would be really tough to mod, don't you think?

The only way I could possibly think of doing that is have the JK pick target in the twilight phase.

Looking back, Jailkeeper is a good role to have. Cop instead might be good too, would allow lyncher to fakeclaim cop. I mean they could fake claim Jailkeeper now but I feel it'd be less effective.

P-Edit: Actually having confirmed innos is probably a bad idea so scratch that. Jailkeeper is good.

[BBmolla]

I think the main problem with Jester is that he's a distraction to scumhunting. If he ends the game instantly, it discourages lynching. If he doesn't end the game at all, he's pointless.

I think if there is a setup with a fool, there needs to be a way to get rid of him. This is why I had the venge kills. Dayvig would work too.

If there's a way for the fool to die during the day without being lynched, think about how that'll affect their play.

[BBmolla]

@Whiskers: I made one a while back.

Gunmakers and Funtakers

13 Players
Mafia:
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Day Bomb(If shot during day, dies, but also kills whoever shot them.)
1 Mafia Roleblocker

Town:
1 Day-Doc(Chooses someone at night to protect during the day)
1 Night-Doc(Normal Doc)
2 Gunmakers(Gives a gun to another player each night. The player is told they recieved the gun and may use it during the day to daykill someone.)
6 VTs

?

[BBmolla]

Hoopla, I applaud you. You've done a lot for the Open Queue.

[BBmolla]

We Need A Fifth

1 Town Secret Double Voter
1 Townie
2 Mafia Goons

4p setup. Daystart. Nightless. Thoughts?
If the townie is lynched, Double Voter becomes a normal townie.

Edit: Realized Townie has everyone confirmed scum. Edited a little.

[BBmolla]

If any town is lynched, Mafia win.

It's essentially LYLO on Day 1.

I'm well aware. Not LYLO in a 4p setup with 2 maf is impossible. I just wanted to be ridiculous and see if I could make a 2v2 work somehow.

[BBmolla]

Unforgivably Small Open 1 Mafia Goon 1 Double-Voting Townie

Now you're just trolling me <_<

2 Townies
2 Mafia

Daystart, nightless. If a townie is lynched d1, he does not get lynched and is instead given a one-shot dayvig.

If he shoots the other townie, town loses.
If he shoots mafia, it goes into a normal 1v2 game.

?

I don't even know if this technically mafia lol.

So yeah, town gets a ML I guess. D2 becomes lylo with a clear.

Let's see...

Spoiler: LIST

Mafia1 lynched d1, Town1 lynched d2. - Scum win.
Mafia1 lynched d1, Town2 lynched d2. - Scum win.
Mafia1 lynched d1, Mafia2 lynched d2 - Town win
Mafia2 lynched d1, Town1 lynched d2. - Scum win.
Mafia2 lynched d1, Town2 lynched d2. - Scum win.
Mafia2 lynched d1, Mafia1 lynched d2 - Town win
Town1 lynched d1, Mafia1 shot d2, Town2 lynched d2 - Scum win.
Town1 lynched d1, Mafia1 shot d2, Mafia2 lynched d2 - Town win.
Town2 lynched d1, Mafia1 shot d2, Town1 lynched d2 - Scum win.
Town2 lynched d1, Mafia1 shot d2, Mafia2 lynched d2 - Town win.
Town1 lynched d1, Mafia2 shot d2, Town2 lynched d2 - Scum win.
Town1 lynched d1, Mafia2 shot d2, Mafia1 lynched d2 - Town win.
Town2 lynched d1, Mafia2 shot d2, Town1 lynched d2 - Scum win.
Town2 lynched d1, Mafia2 shot d2, Mafia1 lynched d2 - Town win.

So scumsided unless I'm missing something.
3:4
57% scum win.

Eh. According to this, lynching town is actually better. Would it be better if first town lynched is given one-shot no matter what?

FINAL WE NEED A FIFTH

2 Townies
2 Mafia

Daystart, nightless. If a townie is lynched, he does not get lynched and is instead given a one-shot dayvig. This only occurs once.

If he shoots the other townie, town loses.
If he shoots mafia, it goes into a normal 1v2 game.

This should be 50% EV.

[BBmolla]

I think must lynch was implied, but not specifically stated. So yes, mustlynch.

[BBmolla]

If it's too townsided, possibly make it two of (red, yellow, blue) trackers.

[BBmolla]

Ythan is referring to the fact that if the Tracker tracks a Bodygaurd/Tracker that gets roleblocked, the Tracker does not recieve "You were blocked."

[BBmolla]

I came up with an interesting setup while we were playing on EM when the site was down.

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon
0-4 Doctors
2-6 Townies

I think it might need more town, looking at it again. The point is that there is a variable amount of doctors, which gives Mafia some room in a massclaim.

Swingy as hell.

Edit: Eh, maybe a bit less than I thought. But still swingy.

[BBmolla]

My personal favorite variation is a cult who can only convert vanilla townies. I feel like it's extremely swingy otherwise.

[BBmolla]

The Thing

Everyone has alts.

10 Scientists
2 Things

3 players control all Things. Once a player is taken over by a Thing, the player taken over loses control of their account. The Things can control any Thing, no one is assigned specific ones. Things obviously have daytalk.

(Which means 13 players total)

If possible, when signing up, players sign up specifically for which role they want. (This prevents players who don't want to play the Thing from being the Thing.)

During the day, players decide who they want to test to see if they are a thing.
Once a majority is reached, that player is tested. If they are a Thing, they die. If they are a scientist, a test is wasted. After two tests are wasted, the Things get to choose another player to take over. Then Scientists get two more tests. This continues until all Things are dead or Things outnumber scientists.

Here's a cultish idea that I came up with by stealing some ideas from some game convention from ages ago and a bit from hito, who used an SK who could do something similar.

My original intention was to make a non-mafia game that required the same amount of mod effort as mafia and that I could run in mish mash, but I guess at its core it's still mafia.

Also I have no idea if this is balanced. Obviously any attempts at using meta would be modkillable.

[BBmolla]

Yeah, in my version, a town could win the entire game in one day. You only keep checking until you check two scientists.

[BBmolla]

Few 6Ps I've been thinking of.

Traitor 6p

1 Goon
1 Traitor(Is told who the Goon is)
4 VTs
Nightless

Usurper 6p

2 Usurpers
1 Mastermind
3 VTs
Nightless

Usurpers only win if their partner is dead and they and one town are the last ones standing. If both are alive and they outnumber town, Mastermind wins.
Mastermind wins if Mafia and Town lose. Mastermind is informed who the Mafia are. Mastermind does not have to be alive to win. If an Usurper is lynched, MM commits suicide.
Town wins if both Usurpers are lynched.

[BBmolla]

Well BBMolla's has one problem, the taking over.
If I understand it correctly, the players leave the game and the thinks take over the account.
Try to post like player x, very difficult.

Yep. That's what makes it difficult. Killing and emulating lurkers is easy, but those active players will be tough to copy.

It's also why the Thing has 3 players to control it, just so it becomes tough after you get 4 things.

[BBmolla]

Overturn 7p

1 Goon
1 Godfather

1 One-Shot Governor(Can overturn lynch.)
1 Cop
3 VTs

Day start.

Copied from EM's "Overturn to Riddler."

Edit: it's one-shot gov.

[BBmolla]

Because it's horrible?

Why.

[BBmolla]

Neighborhood Troubles

10 Town

3 Scum

• Pregame all players select a number, 1-4. This determines their neighborhood. The neighborhoods have night talk only.
  
• After neighborhoods are created, one random town player in each neighborhood recieves a power role.
  
• Neighborhood 1 will recieve a 2-Shot Cop.
  
• Neighborhood 2 will recieve a 2-Shot Doc.
  
• Neighborhood 3 will recieve a 2-Shot Vig.
  
• Neighborhood 4 will recieve a 2-Shot Roleblocker.
  
• If no town player exists within a neighborhood, then no one gets the role.

[BBmolla]

Neighborhood Troubles

10 Town

3 Scum

• Pregame all players select a number, 1-4. This determines their neighborhood. The neighborhoods have night talk only.
  
• After neighborhoods are created, one random town player in each neighborhood recieves a power role.
  
• Neighborhood 1 will recieve a 2-Shot Cop.
  
• Neighborhood 2 will recieve a 2-Shot Doc.
  
• Neighborhood 3 will recieve a 2-Shot Vig.
  
• Neighborhood 4 will recieve a 2-Shot Roleblocker.
  
• If no town player exists within a neighborhood, then no one gets the role.

Massclaim destroys this setup like you have no idea, particularly if anyone gets the Doc.

Roles are changeable, I was focusing on the concept.

Change Doc to Jailkeeper = Okay?

[BBmolla]

Okay, this setup is HUGELY speculative and is only semi-open. It should be obvious what has inspired this.

Captain Drafting Mafia

10 Town Players

3 Scum Players

1 Town Drafter
1 Scum Drafter

(Drafters pick pre-game, but do not actually play during the game. They want to pick the best team for their side.)

Town Draft List

Sane Cop
Doctor*
Vigilante
Roleblocker
Jailkeeper
Tracker

Scum Draft List

Rolecop
Doctor
Godfather~
Roleblocker*
Framer
Ninja~

* = Can not be picked Round 1
~ = Can not be picked Round 3

Once everyone has signed up, the Captains and the Mod will join a QT(or communicate out of thread somehow) and conduct the draft.

ROUND 1

• Town Captain chooses first, followed by Scum Captain.
  
• The picked role this round will be a 3-Shot Role.
  
• Both picked roles will be made public in the first post of the game. The players who are playing each role will not.
  
• After both Captains have picked, each Captain chooses a role on the opposite list to ban from the game.

ROUND 2

• Once again, Town Captain chooses first, followed by Scum Captain.
  
• The picked role this round will be a 2-Shot Role.
  
• The roles picked this round will not be made public. The drafters themselves will know what the other selected though.
  
• Once again, after both Captains have picked, each Captain chooses a role on the opposite list to ban from the game.

ROUND 3

• Pick order does not matter this round.
  
• The captains submit their pick this round privately.
  
• Captains have a choice of either: A. Picking another role to be 1-Shot
  OR
  B. Adding another 1-Shot onto the second pick.

After the draft is complete, each Captain recieves a list of their players.(Town Captain recieves his 10, Scum Captain recieves his 3)
The Captains then select who they want to be which role.
After Captains make their selections, the game begins.

Doctor can't be first pick in order to prevent follow the cop strategies(Pick Doc R1, pick Cop R2, pick 1-Shot for Cop R3, Cop claims, success).
Roleblocker can't be first pick just because it most likely always would be.

Godfather/Ninja can't be picked R3 because generally a GF/Ninja only uses one shot in a game, so they would be obvious R3 choices. Removing them will give more variability.

There are obviously going to be balance issues, and some roles will need to be removed/added. Conceptually is it plausible? Are there any breaking strategies for either side?

[BBmolla]

I Dreamed a Dream

7 Townies

2 Mafia Goons

-During the night, Mafia have a night kill and a Compulsive Dream Giving.
-

Dream Giving:

The Mafia must target a town player who is not their night kill. The mafia then also select three players(X, Y, and Z), at least one of which must be Mafia. The player targeted to recieve the dream can not be one of the three players. After all is selected and night resolves, the targeted player recieves a message stating "In the players X, Y, and Z, one or more is scum."
-If a Mafia Goon is lynched d1, the Dream Giving does not occur night 1.

[BBmolla]

I don't see a situation where it would be beneficial for scum to counter-claim a dreamer.

Also, I calculated EV's, and the EV for a town win seems to be more than 70% with random lynching. This seems very town-sided.

Explain how you calculated.

[BBmolla]

Explain how you calculated.

If no dream, town randomly lynches a player.
If dream, town randomly lynches a dreamed player.

Can you give more detail? I got a more 40%ish score with my back matchbox calculation. If they lynch scum D1 then from then on I have them as over 70% but just then.

Just checking to make sure it isn't autolose.

7/2
7/1
6/1(no dream)
5/1
4/1(2 are cleared by dream, 3 are possible left mafia.)
3/1(2 are cleared by dream, 2 are possible left mafia.)
2/1(1 is cleared by dream, 2 are possible left mafia.)

mk

Do you think it's too harsh on scum if one of them is lynched d1?

[BBmolla]

Thing is, if scum get lynched day 1 it turns into nomination mafia, and scum will need to nominate themselves every day, which eventually will make it obvious they are scum.
If scum are not lynched day 1 they need to live to lylo otherwise the same thing might occur.

I don't think so.
7/2
6/2
5/2(1 cleared by dream, 1 out of a certain 3 is mafia. Or 2.)
4/2(1 cleared by dream, 1 out of a certain 2 is mafia. Or 2.)
3/2(1 cleared by dream, 1 out of a certain 3 is mafia. Or 2.)

This doesn't even work because of the different possible combos. Bleh.

[BBmolla]

Medical Mountaneous

10 1-shot Docs

2 Scum

Don't Drop The Soap Mountainous

10 1-shot Jailkeepers

2 Scum

Twice the amount of possibilities each night rendering the town roles even more useless woo.

[BBmolla]

Follow The Cop... Or Not

1 Mafia Godfather or Framer
1 Mafia Goon
1 Cop
1 Doc
5 VTs

-Scum have a One-Shot Secret Daykill

[BBmolla]

That's actually too scumsided, it should be something more like this:

Follow The Cop... Or Not 7p

2 Mafia Goons

1 Cop
1 Doc
3 VTs

-Scum have a One-Shot Secret Daykill. This daykill takes place of their next night kill.

Follow The Cop... Or Not 9p

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop

1 Cop
1 Doc
5 VTs

-Scum have a One-Shot Secret Daykill. This daykill takes place of their next night kill.

[BBmolla]

Don't Follow The Cop

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop

1 Cop
1 Doc
5 VTs

-Scum have a One-Shot Secret Daykill. This daykill takes place of their next night kill.
-Scum can only use the Daykill on a day where the ratio of town to scum is greater than 67%
-Rolecop can kill and rolecop if the Goon is dead.

Do Not Follow The Cop

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop

1 Cop
1 Doc
5 VTs

-Scum have a One-Shot Strongman Nightkill that can be used by either Mafia member
-Rolecop can kill and rolecop if the Goon is dead.

Fixed?

[BBmolla]

Meaning does these 2 variations on follow the cop or not follow the same mechanic as before.

Wut

no

[BBmolla]

Wait so why call it that?

Because the intent was to make setup with doc and cop where following the cop is not optimal. I didn't even know about the other setup, but because my name was exactly the same, I probably saw it before without realizing.

[BBmolla]

Taking Sides Multiball

2 Mafia A Goons
2 Mafia B Goons

1 A Hood Cop
1 B Hood Cop
1 Doctor
6 VTs

-Nightstart,
-Both Mafia Groups have a Nightkill, and a Neighbourize. Mafia A wins if Mafia B is wiped out, and vice versa. There are two neighbourhoods, 'hood A and 'hood B. The mafia of each team start off in here, as it is effectively the scum QT. All actions must be PMd in.
-All "Town" aligned roles choose, at the start, a side. They win with this mafia team.
-A Mafia group is wiped out if all of the members of its QT who are aligned with said team are dead.
-Hood Cops determine whether their target is allied with that group, and if they are a member of the neighbourhood.

Sorry if this is a bit garbled, but I *think* the theory is there.

Nothing would happen in the dayphase.

[BBmolla]

Bank 1:
(1) Innocent Child (PM version)
(1) Even Night Cop
(2) Odd Night Cop
(2) 1-Shot Cop
(3) Cop, Godfather
(3) Cop, Roleblocker
(3) 2x Town Masons
(4) FBI Agent (gets guilty only on SK)
(4) Cop, Even Night Cop, Roleblocker
(4) Cop, Odd Night Cop, Godfather

2 points - SK receives 1-Shot Commute (cannot kill and commute on same night)
3 points - SK receives 1-Shot Bulletproof
5 points - SK receives Unlimited Bulletproof

-Why is 1-Shot and Odd Night cops 2, but Even is 1?
-Why is Cop, Odd Night Cop, Godfather 4 points, but actually selecting them individually is five?

[BBmolla]

(2) 1-Shot Cop
(3) 2x Town Masons

(1) Cop Enabler
(1) PGO

(3) Vigilante

vs. SK with Unlimited Bulletproof and Cop Immunity

Aw yeah Survivor

I'd still much rather put a 1-Shot Cop against myself then an Even cop who has potential for multiple reports.

Edit: Two scum roles useless here, but whatever, don't have time to fix.

[BBmolla]

The one with a ton of One-Shot PGOs is better.

[BBmolla]

Make it opposite, if two+ vigs target someone the person dies but if one vig targets them, that vig dies. Should rid of breaking strategy.

[BBmolla]

Standard 7p is cop ccs d1 = boring.

Change it to C9.

And add Carbon-14 imo.

[BBmolla]

Just because EM uses it a ton doesn't mean it's a good setup. It's still shit, I've been attempting to get it out of newbie lobby by whining about it.

[BBmolla]

AitP is broken by nobody talking and just sheeping first vote. Prevents assasin from knowing anything.

I want in on this vent btw.

[BBmolla]

Its not just used "a ton"

Its the basic setup EM is run on and the most up-voted setup since the EM's inception. For forum mafia, I think it'd suck.

@pedit; adding carbon-14

Appeal to popularity.

It sucks for chat mafia too bro, it encourages follow the cop and discourages self thought.

Edit: In addition, it's the equivalent of 1 townie, 1 cop, 1 mafia, daystart.

It blows.

[BBmolla]

Survivor is a terrible role because he can be either an additional townie or an additional mafia and

it's completely up to him to decide

.

Survivors need some sort of additional modifier or they're just awful.

Also, 9p with 5 Townies, 2 Goons, 1 cop and an anti town role is scumsided as hell.

[BBmolla]

Maybe make the survivor a faction with another survivor. So have like two survivors who can only win if they're the last ones standing. Make it so they can't win with anyone else also. And maybe to help them out a bit, give them a vig shot each night to use. You also make one them a "Survivor Roleblocker" or "Survivor Rolecop" but that's up to you and how you want to balance it.

[BBmolla]

@Phil: Maybe take the first setup and give Mafia a factional daykill.

Edit: With tweaking, maybe try allowing the lynched player to select 3 targets and have it so power roles can only use abilities if they are selected. Gives a nice risk/reward kind of deal.

[BBmolla]

What if a player is CPR docced by two players? By three players? By three players and a Mafia nk?

[BBmolla]

Doesn't fix anything with survivor being swingy.

[BBmolla]

Lose the survivor, survivor is a terrible role that should never be used in anything

Stop that. I love the survivor and would take it over a serial killer any day.

Why
What redeeming factor do you see in the survivor

It creates stupid ass kingmaker scenarios and is just a serial killer without a kill. How is that fun?

[BBmolla]

But Soft What Light Through Yonder Window Breaks

1 Mafia
1 Traitor
5 VTs

-If a VT is lyched, then during the night phase they select a player. If the mafia does not kill during the night, targetted player will die.
-During the night, the Traitor targets who they believe the Mafia is.
-During the night, the Mafia can either kill someone or target whoever they think their partner is.
-If the Mafia and the Traitor both target each other and they both survive the night, they win the game.
-If Mafia dies, the game continues but is nightless.

?

[BBmolla]

They're full out traitors then.

[BBmolla]

I submitted something similar to SAD's proposal a while back.

I think possible 6 scum is too much in a 14 player game without town vigilantes

Edit: Never mind it's really not that similar.

[BBmolla]

Identity Theft Mafia

2 Mafia Identity Thieves

(With a Factional 2-Shot Day Silence[Player may not speak, votes do not show on votecount and must be submitted to mod via PM])

1 Town Cop
1 Town Fruit Vendor
5 Vanilla Townies

Everyone is on alts. Identity Thieves switch accounts with target player. Players retain the role they had on their previous account. If Player Red is Mafia IT and Player Blue is Town FV, and Player Yellow the Cop investigates Player Blue, he will show up guilty. Player Blue is now Player Red, but he is still a fruit vendor. Day Silence can be used both on one day or on two different days. Players are informed that a player is silenced.

[BBmolla]

Totally.

But what if Mafia claimed they were someone else and that they were swapped during the night?
What if someone is silenced and nobody says they're swapped?
What if someone who you thought was scum died?

I included plenty of ways for Mafia to cover their tracks.

[BBmolla]

For the record, commonly agreed balance here is 10:3, town:mafia

My number one complaint about the setup is it doesn't do anything particularly interesting and would probably work better as a closed with 3 more VTs.

My two cents.

[BBmolla]

Ask Faraday I'm just talking out my ass

[BBmolla]

EM is normally d2 MYLO/LYLO. Or d1. Setups with 9 players and 3 scum are fairly common.

[BBmolla]

What does the Encryptor do

[BBmolla]

Nameless

• 2 Mafia Goons
  
• 1 Cop
  
• 1 Jailkeeper
  
• 5 Vanilla Townies

Has this been suggested before (I couldn't find it on the wiki) and is it balanced?

Townsided imo. One mafia goon getting lynched will really screw things over.

However if people consider JK9 balanced, this one is probably better balanced because in this setup tracker is stronger than cop. (Tracker can find Jailkeeper, cop just tells who is town/scum)

[BBmolla]

However if people consider JK9 balanced, this one is probably better balanced because in this setup tracker is stronger than cop. (Tracker can find Jailkeeper, cop just tells who is town/scum)

I...don't see how this makes it any way stronger. The cop gives 100% accurate results, the tracker doesn't.

Forgive me I was being dumb this morning, for some reason I had it in my head that tracker tracks mafia to the kill even when that mafia doesn't make it.

[BBmolla]

Here's something I've toyed around with before in private chatrooms, with fairly good feedback. If there's interest, I might run it in the Micro queue once I'm allowed. Let me know what you think:

Don't Be Yourself Mafia

5 VTs
1 BP SK
2 Goons

Several games (rounds)

are played by a group of 8 players, with the same setup and

the same role distribution

. Before each 'round'

anonymous alts are randomly distributed

among players for use in this game, such that players are newly anonymous at the start of each round, but know that everyone has kept the same role. The actual playerlist is hidden until the end (and nameclaims can be disallowed). From round 2 onwards, it is equally useful to identify people by their posts, as it is to scumhunt.

The actual setup can be anything from 3p LyLo to a standard 9p Micro, and the winner is determined by 'first-to-two' or 'first-to-three' rounds won. Replacements are a no-go, so this would need committed people, and probably something like WotC.

The three players playing strangely differently would always be scum.

[BBmolla]

How good are you at telling who anonymous alts/hydras belong to?
I've been absolutely creamed several times by someone who was better at looking like me than I was... particularly in forums, where you have time to plan your posts.

If you're town in that setup, you'd want to play exactly the same, drop easy to find tells (Saying perse a lot or some shit) that you could replicate in future games to be identified.

[BBmolla]

Cold Stone

1 Vanilla Cop
1 Cop
3 VTs

1 Goon
1 Godfather

?

Similar to Carbon 14, but both cops are useful. Just differently useful. Vanilla Cop is more powerful obviously. Maybe make Godfather variate with a Goon?

Edit:

Cold Stone V2

1 Vanilla Cop
1 Cop
3 VTs

1 Goon
1 Godfather OR Goon

[BBmolla]

LF do you prefer V1 or V2 of Cold Stone?

V1 is probably better now that I'm relooking at it.

[BBmolla]

My biggest complaint is it's not really Mafia. Huge part of Mafia is looking at relationships between people to find out if they're partners or not. Get rid of partners, it's not really mafia.

I still find this just a weaker setup than Vengeful 5p. And lyncher 5p.

Edit: Next time we're doing skype mafia, remind me to try We Need A Fifth:

WE NEED A FIFTH

2 Townies
2 Mafia

Daystart, nightless. If a townie is lynched, he does not get lynched and is instead given a one-shot dayvig. This only occurs once.

If he shoots the other townie, town loses.
If he shoots mafia, it goes into a normal 1v2 game.

This should be 50% EV.

Edit:

WE NEED A FIFTH

2 Townies
2 Mafia

Daystart, nightless. If a townie is lynched, he does not get lynched and is instead given a one-shot dayvig. This only occurs once.

If he shoots the other townie, town loses.
If he shoots mafia, it goes into a normal 1v2 game.

If a mafia member is lynched, he has to confirm one of the town players as town.

This should be 50% EV.

[BBmolla]

Isn't it in town's interest to lynch a suspected townie day 1 in We Need A Fifth? (Preferably the second-towniest of the 4.) That gives them a confirmed townie going into day 2 if the vengekill hits (which it probably will), and if they mess up and lynch scum instead, that isn't exactly a problem.

I'm a bit wary of setups where aiming to lynch town is better than aiming to lynch scum…

?

You lynch scum you get a confirmed town

You lynch town you get confirmed town, BUT could possibly lose the game

You're welcome to figure a way to provide more incentive to not lynch town

[BBmolla]

Cult Leader	Vanilla Townie	Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie	Lyncher	Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie	Vanilla Townie	Jester

Discuss.

[BBmolla]

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
  2	Mafia 1-Shot Strongman	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Town Doctor
  3	Town Cop	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Tracker

?

[BBmolla]

Jailkeeper/Roleblocker is a stupid interaction and should be avoided.

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Ninja
  2	Mafia 1-Shot Strongman	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Town Doctor
  3	Town Cop	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Tracker

Idk I'll fix it later

Are we certain Cop/Doc/Roleblocker is too townsided?

[BBmolla]

A 1-shot or full bulletproof townie shouldn't be in this setup at all. We get enough problems with newbies trying gambits or lying as town without experience or knowing how to do so already. Do we want to start their first game by having the IC say "Ok, while SOMETIMES it's ok to lie as town...."

I think this is very exaggerated by the bye. I certainly don't think it's worth mentioning in the absence of dueling set-ups like Tracker-Doc vs. Tracker-1-shotBP.

My current best attempt is probably the following:

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Mafia Role Cop	Town Back-up
  2	Vanilla Townie	Town Cop	Mafia Goon
  3	Mafia Goon	Town Odd-Night Bulletproof	Town Tracker

I like the Odd-Night Bulletproof more than 1-shot because it provides a similar level of protection while making it less likely that town will have to no-lynch; it also makes it easier to play around town fake claims, if that were to come up.

I like it

[BBmolla]

Arson Mafia

ROLES
Two Arsonist Goons
Six Vanilla Townies
One Fire Marshall

MECHANICS
Rather than a factional kill, the scum team functions like an arsonist. Each night, they may either prime a target, or burn down all of their currently primed targets. They can't do both in the same night.

The Fire Marshall is a town sided investigative role that can determine if a specific player is primed.

I haven't figured out the estimated win rates yet.

How does it look? I wouldn't be surprised if there's some balance issue but it'd seem like a fun game at first glance.

Seems fun, only concern, is 2:7 nightless townsided or scumsided? Just curious.

[BBmolla]

The Jig Is Up 6p

4 Town Vigilante Roleblockers

2 Mafia Goons (Have a factional Track Kill, they choose someone to kill and find out who that player targeted.)

Daystart

I have zero clue what the EV on this is.

[BBmolla]

They kill someone and roleblock them at the same time

Think Jailkeeper but instead of Doc/Roleblock, Kill/Roleblock.

Edit: I couldnt think of a good name for that combo.

[BBmolla]

Assuming all letters are roleblocking vigs

RBV1 targets RBV2
RBV3 targets RBV1

This ones easy, RBV1 is the only one who dies.

In a round, I don't know. Maybe in a round make it so roleblock resolves before kill? Or possibly make it so always all roleblocks resolve before kills?

[BBmolla]

The Jig Is Up 6p

4 Town Vigilante Roleblockers

2 Mafia Goons (Have a factional Track Kill, they choose someone to kill and find out who that player targeted.)

Daystart

I have zero clue what the EV on this is.

Circle targeting I think breaks this depending on how things resolve.

No lynch

A->B->C->D->E->F->A

Yeah my shower thoughts were incorrect.

[BBmolla]

Baby Too Much Scum is pretty messed up towards the SK. If FBI agent finds him night one, he's completely screwed.

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia FBI Agent
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Jailkeeper
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• FBI Agent only finds the Serial Killer
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

Pretty minor change, but I think it makes the setup more balanced for all sides. Mafia might be too weak I'm still deciding. Thoughts? May possibly give Mafia a Doctor to mix things up even more if they're too weak atm.

[BBmolla]

In the linked setup, not my setup.

It's a problem in the current existing setup that I sought to fix in my setup.

[BBmolla]

To push his lynch?

If you're scum A wouldn't it help to know who scum B is?

It's there to give mafia a little bit of an upper hand, but to prevent immediate outing of the SK when he's found. Unless mafia are nuts and want to suicide which is totally possible.

Edit: Yeah what Cabd said.

[BBmolla]

Scum could also out the SK in twilight if they were lynched.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing, though.

Hrm, yeah.

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Jailkeeper
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• FBI Agent only finds the Serial Killer
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

Maybe this?
More WIFOM when nobody dies. Gives Mafia a bit better of an advantage too.

[BBmolla]

There's... not actually an FBI Agent in that setup.

Yeah yeah I forgot to remove it, bite me.

[BBmolla]

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Jailkeeper
4 VTs

The problem i see arising is this, Doctor is always going to protect the goon (why protect anyone else?)

Then we get down to the JK, if there is a no kill, the logical thing to do is for the JK to keep hitting the target they have hit (Either they hit the SK, meaning the SK can no longer kill and JK should claim or, the JK has hit the SK's Target in which case he should still keep hitting the same target, unless the JK was missed for the Doc.)

And we come to a point where it is likely that the JK will claim the target and have them lynched (actually this may be the one reason the mafia would benefit from using the Doctor elsewhere)

The charm is that a no kill doesn't mean exactly what you think it means, it has various options. Except when the Mafia Doctor dies, then it narrows it down a bit.

[BBmolla]

Payback Nightless

6 Vanilla Townies

3 Mafia Vengefuls

• Nightless
  
• Mafia win if it is a 1:1 ratio

Does this exist already?

[BBmolla]

Not really. Mafia and Town QT owners will just compensate by not talking. Plus, good luck getting the players to log in to these alternate QT accounts whenever they post for this game.

My 2 cents.

[BBmolla]

Hotline Mafia

6 Players:

1 Mafia Goon

1 Suicidal Mafia Goon

4 Vanilla Townies

• Suicidal goon dies night 1.
  
• If he is lynched day 1, no night occurs.

Not nightless.

Similar to scumhunters 8p, but different because you don't choose who dies, it's preselected.

[BBmolla]

If he is lynched day 1, no night occurs.

^

The "he" is the mafia suicidal goon

Lynching him day one gets town an extra mislynch.

[BBmolla]

Gonna go ahead and say, that sucks for whoever draws this role. In fact... why include it at all? Day 1 is least likely to result in an informed lynch, and the player dies anyway. Optimal play for this role is to just not talk-- ever. No association, no tells, no reads.

If you do that, you get lynched and you fuck over your buddy because town has two chances instead of one to catch him. Why is that optimal?

Your setup removes the entire point of mine, the mafia have to try to set themselves up for a successful LYLO. So they both want to survive, and they don't want to look bad once the suicidal one dies.

There is also a lack of 6P setups, hence mine. Making it 10p goes against my original goal.

[BBmolla]

In regards to your setup, why would you use your Doctor power as the Serial Killer?

And town seems pretty boned.

[BBmolla]

Oh gotcha, I see where you're going with the setup. Hm. Lemme think about it.

Except, no. I mean, ok, there's a chance of that. But somebody will talk people out of lynch all lurkers. Or maybe the Sui. talks some. I know what I said, but if I were in that role (and didn't lose the motivation to play altogether), I'd set up some nice ties to a nice townie, with a little WIFOM vs my partner.
But uh, yeah. I wouldn't say that, even if you lurk almost completely, you're in too much danger of being lynched. Unless the site meta has changed significantly while I was away.

Uh okay?
I mean I don't see how this is different from any other game.

The appeal is that normally in a 6p, it's day 1 mylo. Here it's guarunteed to have two (three if you lynch the suicidal goon) lynches, making it an actual mafia game with connections despite being 6p. The only current decent 6p in the lovers one, which is nightless with 2 mafia lovers and 4 vts. I like more deaths to happen, and with this you get more flips to base stuff on.

It's probably better suited for skype mafia. Or face to face.

[BBmolla]

Oh gotcha, I see where you're going with the setup. Hm. Lemme think about it.

Except, no. I mean, ok, there's a chance of that. But somebody will talk people out of lynch all lurkers. Or maybe the Sui. talks some. I know what I said, but if I were in that role (and didn't lose the motivation to play altogether), I'd set up some nice ties to a nice townie, with a little WIFOM vs my partner.
But uh, yeah. I wouldn't say that, even if you lurk almost completely, you're in too much danger of being lynched. Unless the site meta has changed significantly while I was away.

Uh okay?
I mean I don't see how this is different from any other game.

The appeal is that normally in a 6p, it's day 1 mylo. Here it's guarunteed to have two (three if you lynch the suicidal goon) lynches, making it an actual mafia game with connections despite being 6p. The only current decent 6p in the lovers one, which is nightless with 2 mafia lovers and 4 vts. I like more deaths to happen, and with this you get more flips to base stuff on.

It's probably better suited for skype mafia. Or face to face.

Molla, instead of a suicidal goon, you could just force the mafia to off one of their own N1 if there is a town lynch on D1

Yeah I could. I just liked the whole "okay, you're dying for sure, so we have to make me look good" sort of thing.

But that might make the setup more exciting? It's very similar to Scumhunters at that point but *shrug*

Hotline Mafia

6 Players:

2 Mafia Goons

4 Vanilla Townies

• If town is lynched day 1, mafia get to nightkill a player, but must also sacrifice one of themselves.
  
• If mafia is lynched day 1, no nightkill occurs for the first night.

[BBmolla]

What is a Mafia Jester

[BBmolla]

Eh. I don't particularly like any games with only 1 mafia. They're barely mafia. Mafia is a game of connections, and that's based on there being more than one mafia and them interactions.

And yeah, SK just seems like a better survivor.

If I was really trying to make this work balancewise, make the survivor bulletproof and win in a 1:1:1 or 1:1 situation, make the SK investigation immune, and make lyncher target ALWAYS town. Having their target as Mafia is completely screwed to the town.

[BBmolla]

First one isn't mafia. You have to have a town for it to be mafia.

Second is terrible because the percentages make it so swingy. In general you want to avoid percentage based roles.

Third one would be a lot better if you simplified it, the first part of it is fine, but the game is won or lost in the percentage based stuff. Gunsmith isn't a regular Gunsmith is it? Assuming not, you can basically make this out of it.

Gunmaker Mafia

11 Players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Gunmaker
1 Backup Gunmaker
7 Vanilla Townies

• Gunmaker selects someone at night to give a gun.
  
• That player can use it the next night or next day.

[BBmolla]

Well uh

Like what feedback do you want?

Or do you want us to just not comment on them?

I'm just a bit confused that's all

[BBmolla]

It is modkillable to claim having been a necromancer.

Okay good luck with that

[BBmolla]

Teaching "Follow the clear" is not a good thing.

[BBmolla]

But people know he's town! So if they follow him they'll be following someone who is 100% town so it's their best bet.

Plus, Doc will be on him so he won't die!

[BBmolla]

(Any setup that has a Doc and a confirmable town PR that can be protected is no bueno imo)

[BBmolla]

Okay, gl explaining that to every newbie in every game.

[BBmolla]

What makes this better than the current newbie setup?

[BBmolla]

Not to mention that if the IC scum is lynched d1 it clears 4 people.

[BBmolla]

You also need to understand that the reason VTs exist is that mass claiming in a setup where everyone is a different role and it's open breaks it because it forces mafia to counter claim a role, and numbers wise loses them the game.

I think before each setup you need to ask yourself "What is my goal with this setup?" And also that in most games not everyone is a power role for a reason. And if they are, it's a closed setup.

[BBmolla]

IC can be scum obviously.

[BBmolla]

Workout Session

9 Players

1 Mafia 1-shot Strongman
1 Mafia Docblocker

1 Cop
2 Docs
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• If both Docs target the same person, their protection will fail.

I didn't really think all of this through but I wanted to use Docblocker so this came to fruition. Lemme know if there is a breaking strategy I'm missing.

I think it's townsided atm. Maybe make it 7p?

[BBmolla]

What if both target the same person and the Docblocker targets one of the Doctors?

Docblocker blocks Doc from targeting, thus the other Doc's protection succeeds.

Double Doc On The Block

13 Players

1 Mafia 2-shot Strongman
1 Mafia Docblocker
1 Mafia Backup

1 Cop
2 Docs
7 VTs

• Daystart
  
• If both Docs target the same person, their protection will fail.
  
• If both Docs target the same person, and one is targeted by Docblocker, the protection succeeds.
  
• The Backup is only backup to the Mafia roles, becoming whichever of the other roles dies first.
  
• Backup who takes on Strongman role does not replenish the used shots.

Sharing is Caring

13 Players

1 Mafia Y-shot Rolecop
1 Mafia Y-shot Doctor
1 Mafia Y-shot Watcher

1 Town X-shot Cop
1 Town X-shot Jailkeeper
1 Town X-shot Vigilante
7 VTs

• Daystart
  
• "X" starts as 4, and decreases with each shot spent by one of the power roles.
  
• "Y" starts as 4, and decreases with each shot spent by one of the power roles.

[BBmolla]

I was playing around with this set-up inspired by a game Hanasawa ran on Skype Mafia, and I would appreciate any feedback.

One and Done! 9p game, semi-open set-up

Two Mafia

Seven Town

Mafia get access to an arsenal of one-shot {kill, poison, treestump, arson, PGO} for killing purposes. Only one used per night, and it is consumed. If all are used, i.e. the game hits N6, the arsenal refills.

Kill is straightforward.

Poison is exactly one night delayed; target is not informed.

Treestump lets the person keep posting but no longer voting or using an unspent PR shot.

Arsonist is minimum one-night-day cycle delayed. Once primed, any surviving Mafia can ignite him at any time, day or night.

PGO is one-shot. Scum arming himself takes the place of a killing action that night and is used starting that night on the first person to target him for the rest of the game. The arming is not blockable.

Scum also select from two of the eleven one-shot PRs that either of them can use at any time (one per night): JK (protects against kill, arson), roleblocker, tracker, self-watcher, doctor (protects against kill, poison), neighborizer, commuter, silencer, hider, investigator (finds out which one-shot roles have been used at any one point in the game), detective (finds out which kill methods have been activated at any one point in the game). They then remove one role from the pool entirely.

The others are randomly distributed to town (so every player has one) with one left over and unused.

This sounds cool, I just have no idea how balanced it would be. I'd play it.

I'll think more in depth about strategy behind it when I get home

[BBmolla]

Baby Genius (9p)

Mafia Goon x2 (Factional Rolecop, can be used every night in addition to the kill)
Babysitter (protects from nightkill unless the babysitter would die that night, in which case the babysitter kills the player it's targeting instead)
Cop
VT x5

I wanted to make a basic setup centered around the babysitter role, and this is what came to mind. Babysitter plays around with interesting WIFOM wondering when they will be killed, scum has interesting WIFOM around when to kill the babysitter. Seems a little town sided (cop claims Day 1 --> no lynch, result, no lynch, etc) until cop dies, but not allowing the town to no lynch doesn't seem very graceful, considering babysitter will put them on evens. I like the idea of a compulsive babysitter.

Make one of the mafia a One-Shot Watcher imo.

Should fix any day one claim issues while keeping the setup functionally the same.

If d2 the cop gets a guilty on the one-shot watcher you could be in trouble.

But I think that's okay.

Edit: Didn't notice Factional Rolecop, get rid of that imo. Or make it a team of a One-Shot Watcher and a One-Shot Rolecop. Maybe Two-Shot Rolecop.

I think optimal strategy would be for the Babysitter to claim day 1? Turn them into a Vig immediately rather than later? And make it 10p.

Its defensiveness is too swingy, I'd just claim d1 and either coast to victory as confirmed town or die and kill whoever I think is scum.

[BBmolla]

Eh. I don't particularly like any games with only 1 mafia. They're barely mafia. Mafia is a game of connections, and that's based on there being more than one mafia and them interactions.

Having two serial killers isn't much better imo, even if they know each other.

*shrug*

[BBmolla]

Any suggestions on Sharing is Caring resolutions? Could just prioritize Cop over Jailkeeper over Vig, but if that's kind of eh I'm up for suggestions.

I need thoughts on whether scum should have daytalk in We Need A Fifth. I gave them daytalk when I ran it, but I don't know what would be more balanced.

[BBmolla]

Sharing is Caring

13 Players

1 Mafia Y-shot Rolecop
1 Mafia Y-shot Doctor
1 Mafia Y-shot Watcher

1 Town X-shot Cop
1 Town X-shot Jailkeeper
1 Town X-shot Vigilante
7 VTs

• Daystart
  
• "X" starts as 4, and decreases with each shot spent by one of the power roles.
  
• "Y" starts as 4, and decreases with each shot spent by one of the power roles.
  
• If X or Y goes below 0 in one night, all actions by that team will fail and no shots will be spent.
  
• Every time a Town Power Role dies, X increases by 1.
  
• Every time a Mafia Member dies, Y increases by 1.

Other setup possibilities include the Town Power Roles being told what number X is at.

[BBmolla]

Obviously Cop is the strongest early game, and if I were Vig/Jailkeeper I may no action just to get as many cop reports as possible.

As game winds down though Jailkeeper becomes a lot better.

Edit: Is giving additional shots overkill?

[BBmolla]

Well, that doesn't mean the power roles don't have to use all shots night 1. Vig could be certain someone is scum, and vig them, one scum dead (assuming no doc protection on that player). Jailkeeper could jail another, no mafia kill and 50/50 that person is protected town/blocked scum. Cop could then catch the last mafia.

The game could technically be over in two days if people actioned correctly. I think on paper, giving Cop most reports will be most beneficial, but I don't think using Vig/Jailkeeper early is throwing.

I don't think I exactly follow what you mean though, what exactly are you proposing there is an issue with

[BBmolla]

I don't think either way has as significant as an advantage as Hard Boiled does. If all use abilities night 1, you could technically win in two days. I would save the shots for the cop, but I don't think it increases win percentage as much as it does in Hard Boiled.

I disagree that Watcher and Rolecop play the same function. I wouldn't mind throwing in a Godfather over the Rolecop, I'd much prefer to put the innocents in question than the guilties

Edit: I do know the site is low on Framer setups though, so if we wanted to put it in instead of Godfather just for that, I'd be okay with it.

[BBmolla]

Use Protection

9 Players

2 Mafia Lovers
1 Mafia Traitor Vig

4 Town 1-shot Bulletproofs
1 Town Doctor
1 Town Macho Vig

• Mafia crosskills will fail.

Edit: Replaced Jailkeeper with Vig.

[BBmolla]

Do the mafia know the identity of the traitor?

No.

[BBmolla]

What is a spy

[BBmolla]

Role from the original incarnation of C9++ (wolf equivalent is Shaman). He could seer a "Role Class" of any player; for example, if he investigated a Cop, he would get a C (or "Investigator") result, if he investigated a Doc, he would get a D (or "Protector") result, etc.. In this game I would also have him detect opposing scum, perhaps at some other price, pending the commentary of reviewers. Speaking of which...

Oh that's badass.

[BBmolla]

Assassins in the Mafia

7 Players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Witness
2 Town Masons
2 Vanilla Townies

• Witness is told at the start of the game who the mafia are.
  
• If the last mafia member is lynched, the mafia must submit who they believe the Witness to be. If they guess correctly, they win.

Stolen from the Resistance variant, Avalon. I'm unsure of masons as power roles, the setup needs to be townsided so that Mafia don't have a huge chance to win from the base setup, but I wanted to avoid investigative roles so Mafia could hunt who seemed to know who they were.

Is there a breaking strategy I'm ignoring?

[BBmolla]

Oh derp.

Uh

Make it so only alignment flips?

Edit: Yeah never mind, I have to clarify what happens when Witness is lynched and such. Bleh.

[BBmolla]

-Witness can be lynched or night killed, but will flip Vanilla Town.

Is that too broken/stupid?

Edit: -Game doesn't end if Witness is dead.

Rename it to "Witness Stand" or something.

[BBmolla]

Witness won't be a Mason.

I mean I'm really up for suggestions, but I don't know how else to fix it besides making it nightless.

[BBmolla]

Suggestions?

I originally had 2 cops instead of masons, would that be better?

[BBmolla]

Uh

Are the lone mafias all on the same team?

Otherwise they're basically serial killers and this is barely mafia.

I don't really understand what you're trying to accomplish with this setup.

[BBmolla]

Spindoctor?

Your setup could work.

[BBmolla]

Don't Be Scummy

9 Players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Cop
1 Miller Cop-Enabler
5 VTs

Could possibly give Miller One-Shot Bulletproof vest but I wanted to try to keep it super simple. In face to face, there are no current open setups utilizing juvenile deliquent(miller) and I think this one would be good. The issue with open setups and juvenile deliquent is that you just claim it day one and you're just a named townie. Here, not the smartest move. Might be a little scumsided on forum?

[BBmolla]

Yeah true.

[BBmolla]

Not sure if claiming day 1 in that setup is the

best

strategy for town, but it seems workable. That effectively translates to an Innocent Child and a 1-shot Cop, which in turn is basically a 7:2 mountainous in which the scum's first two kills are determined by the mod pregame and their third is chosen by town. That's not that far off balanced, but it's rather swingy depending on who gets which roles (because the main benefit of the scum kill direction is to prevent the scum killing the towniest townies).

Would making cop 2-shot help balance?

[BBmolla]

Just use plurality deadline. If there is a tie random.org it.

If two people are obvious town, the game should end according to normal gameplay regardless.

[BBmolla]

Kidnapper - Targets a player each night. If the kidnapper dies, that player dies as well.
(Babysitter minus protection)

Hostage Negotiation

6 Players

2 Mafia Goons

2 Town Kidnappers
2 Vanilla Townies

• Mafia win in a 1:1 situation, even if going into night.

Lindbergh 8p

8 Players

1 Mafia Kidnapper
1 Mafia Roleblocker

1 Town Cop
1 Town Vigilante
4 Vanilla Townies

• Mafia win in a 1:1 situation, even if going into night.

[BBmolla]

So I think it is time to pull Hard Boiled as an approved open setup.

In games where town has picked a tracker in the tracker/vig slot, they are now 5-0. In games where they picked vig, they are now 0-3. Looking at the setup with the tracker, its getting close to a broken stage for town with coordination and cooperation from town PRs. Past runs have shown this, with town being able to string together close to forced wins, especially with an early scum lynch.

What if we were to change it to a JOAT with 2-shot Track and 1-shot Vig? Or just to make it a limited shot Tracker?

[BBmolla]

So I think it is time to pull Hard Boiled as an approved open setup.

In games where town has picked a tracker in the tracker/vig slot, they are now 5-0. In games where they picked vig, they are now 0-3. Looking at the setup with the tracker, its getting close to a broken stage for town with coordination and cooperation from town PRs. Past runs have shown this, with town being able to string together close to forced wins, especially with an early scum lynch.

What if we were to change it to a JOAT with 2-shot Track and 1-shot Vig? Or just to make it a limited shot Tracker?

OH

Another idea

Make the Hider a Hider Ninja.

[BBmolla]

Lynch the traitor

[BBmolla]

Yeah, no.

5:5:1 is in no way balanced.

[BBmolla]

Yeah, no.

5:5:1 is in no way balanced.

Isn't The Serial Killer supposed to have a disadvantage though ?

That's not the issue, the issue is it is basically unwinnable for town.

Take a look at some setups on our wiki to compare numbers.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... pen_Setups

[BBmolla]

That's a great variant, would work awesome in face to face as well.

[BBmolla]

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Jailkeeper
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer must nightkill every night
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

Wanna try running this in micro, can I get some thoughts? Is the SK too disadvantaged? If so, what would be a solution? Turning JK into Doctor or Roleblocker?

Edit:

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer must nightkill every night
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

This is actually probably better balanced.

[BBmolla]

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer must nightkill every night
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

This is actually probably better balanced.

I like it.

Get the feeling town may get burned quite a bit though since they essentially have three lynches to hit the SK. They miss him by that point they are going to need some doctor help. You also have the thread of the SK being lynched before Town Doctor essentially creating a nightless game with an Innocent Child.

Will sleep on it but this sounds good

2:5 with IC is pretty townsided, but it also gives Mafia incentive to not lynch the SK early which I think is pretty cool.

[BBmolla]

I won 8:4 nightless after my buddies got lynched the first four days #bragging

Well if you have ideas, shoot.

See, there's also the issue of if Mafia lynched d1, and then mafia killed n1, and then SK kill gets blocked by doc, it is now auto lose because there are two ICs.

Could just make SK non-compuslive, easy fix.

More interestingly, maybe if an anti town faction is eliminated within the first two days(d1, n1, d2), the Town Doctor commits suicide?

Nah that's too punishing to the town for doing something good, I take it back.

I think SK should be non-compulsive though.

1-2-1 endgames should also probably be clarified as a mafia victory.

Could do something janky like "If Serial Killer is lynched day 1, Mafia recieve a one-shot nightkill."

Edit:

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer may choose not to kill.
  
• If the Serial Killer is the first person to die, Mafia recieve a 1-shot nightkill.
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.
  
• Mafia wins 1-2-1 endgame.

This may encourage no lynching day 1, something I am relatively okay with considering they're giving the SK a nightkill? (Admittedly, one that might fail, but eh)

[BBmolla]

Guns and Betrayal

12 Players

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Traitor Cop

1 Town Doctor
1 Town Macho 1-shot Vig
7 VTs

• Daystart
  
• If Mafia target traitor for a nightkill, the kill fails.

Running a game night on Friday, brainstorming setups involving traitor.

[BBmolla]

Probably the best strat

[BBmolla]

7p is inherently scumsided regardless so I think it's pretty balanced.

[BBmolla]

Can you prime a treestump? If a person is primed and they treestump, can they still be ignited?

Also lol at a firefighter who doesnt put out fires. It works balance wise, I just think it's funny.

[BBmolla]

The name of the Firefighter is fine, I just thought it was funny.

[BBmolla]

Being town in that game would suck ass.

[BBmolla]

Being town in that game would suck ass.

Yeah, its not quite a traitor, but not quite normal mafia.

Wondering if it can work, but its a possible jumping off point.

Would it be too much in town's favor to do something like...

Let's say Alfred is scum. He is scum with Bobby and Conner. Secretly buddies with Denise.

Let's say Alfred is lynched day one. He is revealed to be "Mafia A" meaning he knows buddies B and C.

Let's say Connor is lynched day three. He is revealed to be "Mafia C" meaning he knows buddies D and A. We know A was Alfred and thus we now know both of these guys knew each other.

?

[BBmolla]

4 factions is way too many.

[BBmolla]

Classic Rivals Multiball

15 Players

1 Mafia Ninja
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Doctor

1 Werewolf Ninja
1 Alpha Werewolf
1 Werewolf Doctor

1 Town Cop
1 Town Seer
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Vig
5 VTs

• Daystart
  
• 1:1:1 situations automatically no lynch.

Win conditions might need to be clarified more. And town might be too weak. May be most beneficial to add a power role and turn the cop and seer into a single bloodhound?

[BBmolla]

-setup-

Win conditions might need to be clarified more. And town might be too weak. May be most beneficial to add a power role and turn the cop and seer into a single bloodhound?

Personally i think the tracker is the only weak role to town. i would swap it out with a town doc. the ninjas almost make the tracker useless IMO

You're not factoring what the tracker can track. Cop, Seer, Vig, Maf Doc, and Werewolf Doc. That's important. And then when a mafia ninja/werewolf ninja dies, it becomes all that more powerful.

[BBmolla]

Molla, I don't understand why scum need to have so much power. One or maybe 2 out of 3 of those PR's certainly seems enough.

Honestly Friends and Enemies and Enemies is the perfect large setup I was just shooting the shit. I would like a large with cop/mafia and seer/werewolves.

[BBmolla]

Kill All Townies

15 Players

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Doctor

1 Werewolf Goon
1 Alpha Werewolf
1 Werewolf Doctor

1 Town Cop
1 Town Seer
1 Town Vig
6 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The first day there is one lynch. For the preceeding days, there is a number of lynches per day equal to amount of town that died during the night.
  
• 1:1:1 situations automatically no lynch.

[BBmolla]

Hm. Good thought, lemme think on it.

[BBmolla]

They aren't penalized anyway. The only problem is that if the person the vig shoots doesn't die they know they are some sort of scum.

I don't see that as a problem really.

[BBmolla]

The first day there is one lynch. For the preceeding days, there is a number of lynches per day equal to amount of town that died that night.

So if scum cross kill at night, the game immediately goes into another night? That’s interesting. ..

Correct. Unless the vig shoots a townie

[BBmolla]

Mr. And Mrs. Smith

12 Players

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Recruitable Traitor Doctor

1 Bulletproof Serial Killer

1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Knifesmith
1 Town Vig
1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• Gunsmith gets a positive on Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, and Vig.
  
• Knifesmith gets a positive on Mafia Traitor Doctor, Doctor, and Serial Killer.
  
• 1:1:1 situation results in SK victory.

[BBmolla]

Is a day one massclaim minus Doc too powerful though?

[BBmolla]

I don't think so, Mafia Roleblock Gunsmith and kill Vig, SK kills Knifesmith. One of those most likely gets blocked by Doc. I think the setup is okay.

[BBmolla]

Traitor gets recruited on NK?

Setup seems lovely, SK just needs to seem town and doesn't have to worry about being NK'd and still is balanced by knifesmith. Good stuff.

I'm just worried about town. After a town lynch day 1 and a town vig shot, town seems extremely boned. Idk how to fix it.

Tell vig not to shoot

Probably massclaim d2, and that should get at least one scum I think

Edit: Could also add more players. Couldn't decide on number. 14 would probably be better, no?
Edit2: Yes, Traitor is recruited on nightkill.
Edit3: And informed who partners are.

[BBmolla]

Mr. And Mrs. Smith

14 Players

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Recruitable Traitor Doctor

1 Bulletproof Serial Killer

1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Knifesmith
1 Town Vig
1 Town Doctor
6 VTs

• Daystart
  
• Gunsmith gets a positive on Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, and Vig.
  
• Knifesmith gets a positive on Mafia Traitor Doctor, Doctor, and Serial Killer.
  
• 1:1:1 situation results in SK victory.

[BBmolla]

That one looks cool. How do you come up with these?

This one was formed after a discussion about Gunsmiths. They mentioned stuff about Docs and SKs not having guns and instead Knives. Hence, there should be a Knifesmith.

Most my setups come up with me asking myself about a role/concept and trying to make it work.

[BBmolla]

If the mafia nightkill him successfully.

[BBmolla]

Well you learn the identity of another partner, I'd say that's pretty nice. But I mean, obviously it's probably more ideal to just kill someone.

Btw, when recruited, for balance reasons, the Traitor still return guilty to knifesmith and innocent to gunsmith. He uses his Doc knives to kill.

Edit: If the Mafia faction dies without the Traitor being recruited, he commits suicide.

[BBmolla]

Mr. And Mrs. Smith

14 Players

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Recruitable Traitor Doctor

1 Bulletproof Serial Killer

1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Knifesmith
1 Town Vig
1 Town Doctor
6 VTs

• Daystart
  
• Gunsmith gets a positive on Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, and Vig.
  
• Knifesmith gets a positive on Mafia Traitor Doctor, Doctor, and Serial Killer.
  
• 1:1:1 situation results in SK victory.

1) Can RB/Recruited Mafia act and kill?
2) If traitor has been recruited does he investigate guilty to gunsmith? If yes what if gunsmith targets him on night he is recruited?
3) Do doctors protect against multiple kills?
4) What happens if unrecruited traitor is only remaining mafia?

1) I'd say yes, but I don't believe it matters?
2) No he does not.

Btw, when recruited, for balance reasons, the Traitor still return guilty to knifesmith and innocent to gunsmith. He uses his Doc knives to kill.

I'll add it to the rules next time I post the setup.
3) Doctors protect against a single kill.
4)

Edit: If the Mafia faction dies without the Traitor being recruited, he commits suicide.

[BBmolla]

All of the above are subject to discussion, if you feel it's better for recruited traitor to be seen as positive to gunsmith, then that's a okay by me.

[BBmolla]

Finish or Not Finish[/b]

2 Mafia Goons

1 Serial Killer

1 Doctor
7 VTs

Scum are immune to night kills
The lynch first reveals whether the target is Mafia. The players then have 24 hours to lynch him, or to not lynch him.

Becomes pretty broken after SK dies. But I assume it stops taking effect at that point.

[BBmolla]

Just make them Strongman Paranoid Gun Owners to avoid confusion.

[BBmolla]

Paranoid Sniper Rifle Owners

[BBmolla]

Love And Treason

10 Players

1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Mafia Suicide Bomber

2 Town Lovers
2 from (Vengeful Townie, Vengeful Townie, Supersaint, Beloved Princess)
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• Beloved Princess ability works if lynched, killed by a vengeful, or killed by a supersaint, but not by a nightkill or suicide bomb from the Mafia.

While town could massclaim and have confirmed lovers, I don't think it's optimal? Tons of good fake claims for the mafia. Thoughts? Maybe increase it to 11 and add a traitor, yeah?

[BBmolla]

I would take out the part of "works by kill of SS and veng" b/c that makes it extemly scum sided when they get 2 nights of kills

Optimal strategy then becomes to vengekill or supersaint all beloved princess claims.

[BBmolla]

Valid points. I'll work with it. I hesitate to add any more roles because at the moment town literally has 4 named roles. Adding VTs is probably a step in the right direction though.

[BBmolla]

Mad Precint

7 Players

2 Mafia Visitors

5 1-shot Cops

• Daystart
  
• If an odd number of players visits a cop the night they use their ability, they will recieve an insane result.
  
• If an even number of players visit a cop the night they use their ability, they will recieve a sane result

A better variant might be odd number players = guilty and even number of players = innocent with 0 visits always being accurate, but I'm undecided.

[BBmolla]

Mafia should be able to kill and visit the same night for balance I think

[BBmolla]

How do we fix that then? Give Mafia 1-shot mass roleblock if partner is lynched d1?

[BBmolla]

the problem i see with this is that its an easy "target person below you" game

while mafia coudl try to mess it up by visiting someone else, it would quickly be outed by the incorrect results imo.

If this was done, mafia target the people targetting them. This will make all results identical and make the plan useless.

Could just make it so if mafia are lynched day 1, they lose, ez solution ez life

[BBmolla]

That aint terrible.

[BBmolla]

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer may choose not to kill.
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.
  
• Mafia wins 1-2-1 endgame.

Reposting this setup for feedback. I'd like to change it to the following:

Baby Enough Scum 8P

2 Mafia Bulletproofs

1 Serial Killer

1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer may choose not to kill.
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.
  
• Mafia wins 1-2-1 endgame.
  
• If it is not during LYLO, the first Mafia lynched recieves a vengekill.

Looking at it now, this might be too non town sided?

Goal of the setup is to create an 8 player setup akin to "Baby Too Much Scum" but more balanced. Is having the Mafia be bulletproof too much power for them? Would it be better if they were both Doctors? Or 1-shot BPs? Or back to the previous setup but with the new rule added?

[BBmolla]

Mafia was lynched the first day, then killed night 1.

Part of it was bad luck, but once one mafia dies they're pretty screwed.

The vengekill is to cover the scenario where SK is lynched day 1.

I think I've overdone it by making them both bulletproof but I don't know where the right balance is. Maybe if one is lynched, the other becomes bulletproof?

[BBmolla]

If the SK is lynched day one, it becomes 2/5 nightless which I think is balanced? If not a little scum-sided already.

2/5 nightless with a confirmed town. Bit different.

[BBmolla]

have the second mafia gain BP

And have them start as Mafia Doc/Goon or two goons?

[BBmolla]

kk

[BBmolla]

There are No EVs for Nightless setups D:
and I doubt my abysmal figure of 20% win rate for Mafia after D1 SK lynch is correct. Some help in this department would be appreciated.

In the mean time, since you're meaning to mitigate the impact of an SK dying early: why not give the Mafia a 1-Shot Kill if SK is lynched?

Because then town can't win in a 1 Mafia, 1 SK, 2 Townie situation.

[BBmolla]

True.

I guess what I really wanted out of the setup is the SK is the urgent need to be taken care of, and then once that happens Mafia can become the focus. BUT you want to try to lynch one mafia so they don't slip away with the victory.

But eh.

I wanted the dayplay to be the biggest part, with the SK getting a nightkill off like 50% of the time.

[BBmolla]

Town still have a clear in that setup btw, the BP claims to be clear.

But 1-shot BP for town might still be better to stop accidental confirmed towns?

[BBmolla]

Doctor or Bulletproof, which is better

I think Bulletproof might be better to stop more people being confirmed town

[BBmolla]

Baby Enough Scum 8P

2 Mafia Goons

1 Serial Killer

1-Shot Bulletproof Townie
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• The mafia have a shared 1-shot bulletproof ability
  
• The first mafia lynched recieves a vengekill.
  
• Serial Killer may choose not to kill.
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.
  
• Mafia wins 1-2-1 endgame.

A lot of "details" but might work okay in practice?

[BBmolla]

PGO claims day 1
Cop claims day 1
Doc protects Cop night 1
Watcher watches Cop night 1
Watcher finds out who Doc is and watches them night 2

Do the 1-shot bp townies know they are 1-shot bp?

[BBmolla]

I'd play that face to face

I'd get too bored on the forum

[BBmolla]

Dying Docs

3 Mafia Goons
10 Vengedocs (Protect a player the night after their lynch)

Is there a way to find out the EV for this mith ^