Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[ToastyToast]

Hey all! I will be catchin up tonight.

[ToastyToast]

omfg I'm so sorry guys I forgot

[ToastyToast]

It is not random. Xayzeck had one of the better RVS votes and WP voted him for it. Scummy. Also, weird combination of friendly and confrontational. It's unsettling to read.

This is dumb. wagonwagonwagon may as well have fun with it and make xyasyjkek or whatever the wagon.

Is who has the blessings public knowledge?

^ This.

But yeah. Letting the dayvig decide on his own may not seem like the best idea on the surface—and it could very well be in unskilled hands—but it's better than essentially giving the scum a kill they don't deserve.

I agree. It means less manipulation, and oftentimes in the hands of someone who's opinion is in the minority, going against the majority can change the game. Liking StrangerCoug atm.

I want dayvig to claim intent to shoot before actually shooting, and I want them to shoot today. I want them to shoot today because mafia probably wants to hang onto the dayvig in order to wait for earlier LyLo or a suicide shot while going down, and both of those are less advantageous than forcing mafia to take a shot they will have to explain. I also see no advantage lost from giving whoever you're going to shoot a chance to claim/give final thoughts if town.

But isn't it more beneficial to use a dayvig shot when someone has gathered enough information to make a decision? Using it day 1 is no better than a random shot tbh.

oh and you voted me you suck.

From my point of view, we are town, so if the mafia has it I want to know about it. If town has it, I don't really need to know about it, but it's not something I want to be worrying about on D3-D4 if the person who held it got killed N1 for instance.

So basically you don't give a shit one way or the other. cool, what a refreshing and helpful point of view.

As the first sign of the zodiac, the presence of an Aries almost always indicates the beginning of something energetic and boisterous. Not much holds this sign back. They're eager, dynamic, quick, and competitive. When it comes to getting the ball rolling, an Aries is the best. Pioneering everything from work-related projects to parties with friends, these folks go for the gusto.

Damn right I am.

I actually agree with burns post on dayvig/set up spec I don't understand why people dislike it. Becoming more sure not to trust nacho, iec, or gem. However burns vote on juls is a vote in the wrong direction. She's full null right now..

It doesn't really matter if we know how the vig was really. It's not as if alignment affects who got the vig (as far as we know), and I'm sure town will claim it after the fact either way.

No.

I think we should use the vig as a "second lynch" for the town. Can the scum influence it? Sure. But the scum can influence a lynch in the same way.

gross. You should never let dayvigs get controlled by majority rules. Or any vigs for that matter. Because even if scum isn't influencing it, incorrect town can. And, again, D1 isn't enough time to come up with who you feel is town and who has a good handle on the game. Letting a majority creep in and control the dayvig 1)allows the person who used it to blame it on other people's influence, 2) allows those people to blame the dayvig. So no, let the dayvig do whatever the hell they want.

It's a scumtell because in my experience scum is more likely to talk exclusively about strategy in the early game. Why that is I'm not sure. It may be rolefising. It may be trying to look protown without taking any actual stances. In any case it's not strategizing in itself that's scummy. It's making strategizing te entirety or almost the entirety of your play.

Well its ok, like you say, as long as it isn't too much. We have an open setup so it is natural to do some thinking on it. But everyone is going to have a different opinion so it doesn't get anywhere usually.

Witness Protection: When I talked about how town Peregrine was based on timing, this is the flipside of the coin I was talking about. This was the type of vote that generally seemed like an attempt to convert the RVS Xay wagon to something serious or just continuing the momentum towards that lynch. I'm less excited about the vote since he seems to have flaked ( ).

...........................................................................................
That's called pushing.

yeah nacho-gemini are scum together.

*halfway there!* More after I finish this annoying math thing.

[ToastyToast]

And are there seriously 2 people on me based on one post? You have 11 pages and somehow my slot voting Sayscyek is the scummiest thing in the game?

[ToastyToast]

ToastyToast, you've completely misreped me, I have a slew of posts where I give a shit about the dayvig. That post is one where I give a shit about the day vig.

Okay.

Dayvig: Gemini Blind

[ToastyToast]

i know people will complain and shit when you sheep me for the second time today but I'll yell them off, I'll get this lynch, and he will flip scum
believe in me who believes in myself thanks to my horoscope which legitimately says "you can do anything"

What have you done that is worth sheeping you for?

Dislike the Dryfit wagon...again, its not like people saying to avoid setup spec is out of the ordinary in the most games. You guys were looking at it for a while and it was going nowhere.

To be quite honest, I'm kinda at a loss for words right now. I don't know what to say :/ I think Nacho and Juls are town but I'm not really scumreading anyone at the moment.

This is scummy. I would expect town without solid reads to try to dig through pushes/questions....and she hasn't done that at all, regardless of the transparency on her lack of reads.

@DryFit: I'm excited to watch my fav djoker slaughter murray tomorrow

Right now I believe that, if Dry-fit and Nachomamma8 are the same alignment, they are both town. I'd expect a weaker defense of Dry-fit from scumbuddy-Nachomamma8.

but nacho could unknowingly be defending scum. So do you think dry-fit is town independent of nacho defending him?

Do you not think partway down page 3 is a little early to accuse people of being scum for talking about something interesting in the set up? Do you expect people to be actively scumhunting by then?

Hey do you know this thing called pressure votes? Should people be actively scumhunting by the middle of page 4, which is where you hunted burn? Seriously its not like anyone throws a vote down in the first 4 pages and is like OMG GUSY THIS PERSON IS SCUM 100%. Which, by the way, is the same thing people did with my Xayzek vote.

My biggest problems with your play this game is that you didn't do this, not that your theory was wrong. Your talk about why your activity was low is fair enough and I will happily drop this point, but I don't think any of your posts about theory moved the game along or were meant to move the game along. You saying the dayvig should out is cool and all but not at all revolutionary.

Why does this make him scum? Does town have to be revolutionary to be town?

Is ToastyToast an Aires?

Yes.

I don't have a problem with it...see this is exactly what I'm talking about. You are hyper defensive, but I think it's just your personality and playstyle, not alignment indicative.

My vote is still on you because I don't really have a scumread. (I know it's bad, but not much is happening) I was thinking Sala, maybe, but his 207 read as town and I kind of agree with it. PV could be scum.

What about the game is making it hard for you to pinpoint scumreads?

I'm starting to lean scum on Elyse because even when she comes in to say she's having trouble with reads, she doesn't do much to try to change that. With the PV vote its a start, at least. I just don't think stating a lack of reads publicly and being sort of "down and out" at the inability to get into the game is a great defense, and its really all she has going for her right now.

@PeregrineV: would you describe your playstyle as one that starts slowly?

Vote: ToastyToast

is this vote based on "random undisclosed information," too?

but really I deserve the vote because I completely forgot I was in a game.

And are there seriously 2 people on me based on one post? You have 11 pages and somehow my slot voting Sayscyek is the scummiest thing in the game?

you aren't the biggest wagon

thus you aren't the scummiest thing in the game

ok xaxy it was an exaggeration, don't get all lynch all liars because of it.

Good thing our dayvig can't be scum nor incorrect town. OH WAIT.

I trust myself more than 12 people with differing opinions. I'm sure you do too. More people does not mean more accurate.

[ToastyToast]

I hope this means that the dayvig shot is a joke. I believe that using the dayvig day 1 is perfectly fine accuracy-wise: most of the reason later days are more informed than earlier ones is because of the people who are killed and give the town information. Town dayvigging facilitates that: it doesn't always hit scum, sure, but it'll make a later lynch more likely to hit scum and bring the town closer to winning if done properly.

I faked the day kill to prove a point. I "used" it day 1 and people freaked out because they thought I was wrong and/or there wasn't enough information to determine Gemini as scum. But the fact that people disagree with my position on Gemini doesn't somehow lower the chance of error if I were to dayvig Gemini for real.

Furthermore, dayvig gives information, as you say. That makes it more informative to let the vig decide on their own (it gives insight into one persons head rather than having to get into the contrasting opinions of a group on whoever the chosen target is) and it doesn't really matter if scum has it. Whoever uses it gives us information, but if that person feels they don't have enough information to make that decision D1, then they shouldn't use it.

I find Toasty's posts poor and decisions anti-town.
Waiting for the mod to post I suppose, as that's relevant to interpreting the situation right now.

No one cares.

@Xayzck: you question nacho on his belief that my catchup is "good," so what is your stance on it?

PV is scum with toasty.

Gemini is flipping town

how the f did you come to that conclusion.

I didn't like the catchup because I didn't like the points he made and the shot if true pretty much makes me want to strangle him.
I did like the catchup because it seems like ToastyTown to a T.

good you gave me the expected reaction.

ToastyToast I think I'm just emotionally reacting to, not sure yet if his play is anti-town.

Not sure if we played before, but I intentionally annoy people to get reactions. I don't think this is antitown.

PV is votehopping.
Squirm baby squirm

reading my first post and leaving the wagon for it is votehopping?

Vote: Salamance

Prefer this wagon atm but also want to push PV a bit.

[ToastyToast]

Not sure if we played before, but I intentionally annoy people to get reactions. I don't think this is antitown.

No but misrepping me and blatantly twisting words doesn't make me think you're trying to annoy me; it showcases a pattern of poor behavior and it makes me think that I shouldn't take anything you say seriously.

~STD

Where did I "twist" your words? Commenting on a post is not "twisting" words. If I misinterpreted then point out how, then explain how rather than complaining about "how wrong" I am. If everyone just said YOU'RE WRONG then we wouldn't really get anywhere.

Also....

Attempt 2:

In post 263, ToastyToast wrote:
gross. You should never let dayvigs get controlled by majority rules. Or any vigs for that matter. Because even if scum isn't influencing it, incorrect town can.


Good thing our dayvig can't be scum nor incorrect town. OH WAIT.

ToastyToast, you've completely misreped me, I have a slew of posts where I give a shit about the dayvig. That post is one where I give a shit about the day vig. I say that if the mafia has it, I want that vig outted. If town has it, great. They can use it however they please, but as long as it's an unknown, I'm going to try to make it known. But thanks for ignoring everything else I said and not reading what you quoted correctly.

Ok so you're saying I misreped you because I commented on a post where you gave a shit about the dayvig, and

misread

a post. I'm still unclear how I misread this.

Hate to break it to you but even if I did, that doesn't make it a misrep. You said it, I commented on it. I did not put words in your mouth.

1) I never claimed that you only cared about the dayvig. And guess what? you saying that is a misrep.
2) When you talked about the dayvig, it sounded unnecessary. You were like "mafia has it, vig should be outed,"; "town has it, they shouldn't be outed." Well unless you know who has it then you have just made a useless comment. Now that you've explained what you meant, I get it. You would prefer to "expose" the dayvig in the case that it is scum, and if it exposes town with it you still feel its necessary as a precaution. THERE WAS THAT SO HARD?

Toasty, who voted me for thinking PV is votehopping

Which is not a legitimate reason to vote you, now that you bring it up. I would call three votes in fourteen posts vote hopping.

FoS: Toasty and PeregrineV

I'm seeing a chainsaw defense here.

I think you should look up the definition of a chainsaw defense.

Firstly, I never said PV was town, I just think Slamence20's reasons are the shittiest on the wagon.

Let's break down PV's 3 votes:

1) Burn: RVS
2) My slot: early push
3) Salamance: some sort of unexplained speshul reasons and probably my biggest problem with the PV votes (although PV not explaining things isn't really out of the ordinary)
4) My slot: push again because my lack of posting made him suspicious. And this is fair.
5) Salamence: Goes back here because after my slot provided

actual content

, he went back to his scumread.

So that's not vote-hopping. He isn't bouncing from place to place to go with the flow of the game. Its not like he went from me to salamance to gemini.
So yeah, its a bad reason for voting PV.

[ToastyToast]

@Coug: If you had a vote on someone and they provided content that changed your mind, would you keep your vote on them?

[ToastyToast]

@ToastyToast
I think the major reason the vig should be used today is that if scum get it, they can hold onto it for LyLo and claim that whoever was lynched/NK'd has it. Using it today eliminates that possibility.

What makes you think scum wouldn't do that just because town said so?

In other news, I've decided to ignore Iecrint unless he explains what troubles him so much about my slot.

[ToastyToast]

WHY CAN'T OTHER PEOPLE POST AND BE ENGAGED

we're all probably waiting for something to happen. Like I check the game and the only thing legit is Elyse asking people why they have trouble townreading her...

[ToastyToast]

I think I'm going to make a full reads list tonight and try to get something moving with it.

[ToastyToast]

Then let's start compromising instead of just sitting around waiting for something to happen. I have a townread on Salamence. Do you have a townread on Iecerint?

No. he's leaning scum for me because he seems to be attacking people without reason.

[ToastyToast]

hey guys I will comment on stuff tomorrow--looks like there have been some cases so yay!

also wish me luck because I have my first job interview tomorrow.

[ToastyToast]

Good luck Toasty! Let us know how it goes!

I got the job!!

I think you're being deliberately opaque, Iecerint. Xayzeck and I effectively asked Elyse the same question; the only difference of note is that I was more explicit. You are playing favorites by giving Xayzeck a free pass for scummy behavior that I am supposedly committing.

FoS: Iecerint

Is this the first time you have suspected Iecerint in the game? It seems kind of out of nowhere. For some reason I thought you were town reading him.

I am willing to compromise on Iecerint, I suppose.

Nacho, I do agree that PerV's scum meta is to lay low, but I don't really think he's put himself out there as much as you say he is.

I do agree that he's put himself out less than he normally does as town.
But I can't help but think part of the reason he's doing so less than normal is because of the slow pace of the game.
Him not putting himself out to the degree I'd like is also the reason he's leaning town as opposed to reading town.

I would be a pretty happy camper if you voted Iec!

Well earlier I asked PerV if he usually starts slow in games at the beginning, as it is something I've noticed in a lot of his games. PereV is more of a late-game player, so with regards to scum meta its if he never has a real *lightbulb* moment and starts going after people that he's suspicious. I don't think he's ever a good lynch D1.

Additionally, I feel his reasons for sticking on the WP wagon are worse than Elyse's not having any reads: he originally voted the wagon because WP voted Xay in the RVS and it's stayed there for that reason the entire day. I feel if Iec was town and he had a read strong enough to encourage him to pursue it for the entire day he would be much more invested in developing and explaining it, but he's shown no inclination towards anything of the sort here.

You can add the fact that he thinks I'm anti-town for things that can be boiled down to my play-style (as a reason there is a vote on me from him still).

I think Xayzeck is active lurking. +scumpoints.

what do you think

what useful answers can come out of that question, because I can't think of any.

why do i have a problem with people townreading you?

well, if you listen to a song, and you think it's garbage, but someone else thinks it's good, wouldn't it be normal to ask WHY he thinks it's good? because that's like the exact same thing that's happening right now

Like there was more he could've responded to than this.

cue him actually making a long response...
But I do think Elyse-Xayzeck has at least one scum. It just seems...fake? Between Xay's analogies and Elyse's "I'm feeling so attacked right now and I just came here to have a good time" posting, I'm left wondering what they are even arguing over.

I don't think it's particularly alarming that he has a scumread on me, if that's why you're asking me in particular. I've been kinda lurky in this game of late. I dunno if this is really a reliable scumtell for me, but I don't expect people to townread me particularly.

Are you planning on doing something to change this, or...?

Really I don't know why Sal isn't the lead wagon at this point. Nothing he's done looks townie and he's done several scummy things.

Agreed. I feel like people are moving to other options because he's lurking and just got prodded...but that isn't a reason to stop pushing someone.

@Gemini: What is your read on nacho currently?

- his reasons for his votes are pretty bad (voting toasty because he didn't post, voting dry fit for "objecting" to his vote on a null read, voting me because ??? after SC hopped off my wagon)

I think I've already explained why voting me was actually more pro-town...I replaced in, promised to catch up, then disappeared for 3 days. I mean...

Currently,

Scum: Salamance, Xay/Elyse (honestly I could see them both being scum)
Leaning scum: Iecerint, Gemini (his recent post was good though)
Null: Aronis, StrangerCoug, CTD
Leaning Town: PeregrineV
Town: Nachomamma, Dry-fit

[ToastyToast]

Ugh. Yeah Salamance lynch should happen at this point.

But I do think Elyse-Xayzeck has at least one scum. It just seems...fake? Between Xay's analogies and Elyse's "I'm feeling so attacked right now and I just came here to have a good time" posting, I'm left wondering what they are even arguing over.

There's not really much arguing, it's just me pushing my scumread.

What do you feel is fake?

Well, I am a player that acts largely on gut, but I'll give a few examples of where I'm getting it. from your end it has to do with the effort put into the push. From Elyse's side its her reaction to people pushing her. From your side it feels like you are pushing her for being lazy, but your logic isn't exactly filled with energy. For example,

There's so little effort to read me here, and so much of looking good to good players while still staying on a small, supported, safe wagon, which I think to be scum.

Given the slow pace of the game, would it not be typical for some players to try to look at meta? I guess I'm not quite comprehending why you think its scummy. I'm not very familiar with your meta either, but you DO seem to be getting defensive with regards to how she sees your playstyle. Its almost as if you are trying to derail her credibility rather than

Also, as a side note, what exactly was the purpose of this?

And are there seriously 2 people on me based on one post? You have 11 pages and somehow my slot voting Sayscyek is the scummiest thing in the game?

you aren't the biggest wagon

thus you aren't the scummiest thing in the game

I think its pretty obvious that I'm referring to the people voting me here. From their perspective, I was "scummiest" from one point.

Why didn't you just say that the first time? I genuinely wondered if you thought I was kidding.

Because it was a dumb question, did you expect me to take it seriously?

Like I don't understand the vitriol with which you are acting toward me and your scumread on me.

I don't see what there is to understand? I scumread you, and I don't know why people are townreading you, so I ask them. It's that simple, I don't even know why you bothered to ask why I questioned others' townreads on you in the first place.

These are some of the other interactions that made me ping. Instead of really attacking her/pushing her, you have this..."why do I have to talk to you right now?" attitude. Then, on her end, she seems really angry with the fact that you are pushing-her-but-not-really.

There's just a lot of unnecessary banter.

[ToastyToast]

Given the slow pace of the game, would it not be typical for some players to try to look at meta? I guess I'm not quite comprehending why you think its scummy. I'm not very familiar with your meta either, but you DO seem to be getting defensive with regards to how she sees your playstyle. Its almost as if you are trying to derail her credibility rather than

Something got deleted here.

"Its almost as if you are trying to derail her credibility rather than give her any chance to change your mind."

[ToastyToast]

Town cop. Holding the shot for a guilty.

?

Xayzeck or Salamance should be today's lynch.

[ToastyToast]

vote:Xayzeck

why are people voting Aronis?

[ToastyToast]

I was going to berate you for this, but I kind of agree with this, actually, having looked back at what Salamence posted during that time...I don't know why Salamence posted the stuff he did about the dayvig if he was the dayvig himself.

The chance of Salamence's claim being real is like 10%. I thought he was joking.

On that note, i changed my mind.

Unvote:Vote:Salamence

[ToastyToast]

I'm a big fan of not lynching the claimed cop D1. Going to laugh when he's telling the truth and you kill him anyway. Willing to bite my tongue if he's not. Don't think it's necessary today, personally.

But I don't understand why he, as a cop, wouldn't refrain from using his dayvig like he "wanted," just because people wanted it used day 1. Being a COP with a dayvig changes things quite significantly, does it not?

If he is telling the truth then it tops the list of "bad Salamance D1 plays."

[ToastyToast]

Probably going to avoid Xayzeck wagon since Salamance voted him, although I suppose he could have done this purposely as scum. Nonetheless, better to have more data before venturing over there.

[ToastyToast]

No, Dry-fit is town.

[ToastyToast]

And peregrine was the counter-lynch to salamance throughout the day, so that's out too.
hmmm...there are 5 people off the salamance wagon. I highly doubt that salamance scumbuddies would all wagon him in a quick lynch, because rarely do people get towncred for deadline-voting someone.

This leaves CTD, Peregrine (the wagon I'm not really feeling), and Xayzeck (possible scumbuddy last minute distancing). I need to read up on the CTD slot. I know I had some initial good thoughts on them but they are going after my town read.

[ToastyToast]

Question: Does Xayzeck-Salamance make Xayzeck seem more town or less town to people?

At first I was pretty confident that one of elyse/xayzeck would be scum, but soon after salamance dayvigged elyse and voted xayzeck. I'm trying to figure out his reasoning for this and I keep getting stumped.

[ToastyToast]

Why do you want to lynch Nacho?

The longer Nacho is alive, the more I want to lynch him.

No. Actual reasons plz

[ToastyToast]

Is 1 night too quick to say "let's lynch Nacho"? Duh, but I never asked to lynch him now. I wouldn't mind though, don't get me wrong, and this point itself isn't enough for me to want to lynch Nacho. But who died instead? Gemini? I'm stepping into that NK Wifom zone, but I have no idea why Gemini died over other players, like Nacho/DryFit, who imo are higher up the townlist(in general, iirc).

So you want him policy lynched rather than scumread?

[ToastyToast]

Alright so I've concluded that Xayzeck is more likely town than scum because Salamence would have little reason to throw a scum buddy under the bus there. Killing Elyse destroys Xayzeck's credibility somewhat (That said his stance on nacho annoys the crap out of me)

Aronis lynch doesn't make much sense. I just don't get it.

People I'm willing to vote right now: Iecrint, CTD (who has been really under the radar and I should probably ISO them).

[ToastyToast]

Nacho, why is Aronis town?

Dry-fit needs to address the issues I had with his Salamance push, since the scum flip doesn't change how I feel about them. I'm miffed that he hasn't addressed them already, given the additional 3 days we got yesterday.

Is there a case against PV other than "Salamance loves bussing"?

Still have bad feelings about Aronis, but I'm hesitant to go back to that well after the way D1 played out.

Clearly I should say more, but I have another game I desperately need to catch up on, so it'll have to wait.

vote: Dry-fit

Not a huge fan of this post, for example.

1)With regards to Aronis town, innocent until proven guilty yo
2) Sorry but you are wrong about the Salamance push. Idk why you think Dry-Fit is scum.
3) Agree on PV
4) wishy washy on Aronis but also asking people why they have townreads on him (when he doesn't have a strong opinion one way or another)
5) Hasn't said anything since.

[ToastyToast]

So I'm willing to discuss Aronis read when I get to a computer but I'm also pretty disappointed by your dry fit read.

Then we can discuss both your Dry-fit and Aronis read and maybe you'll get over your disappointment.

Oh, sorry. He later made this useless, stand-offish comment.

[ToastyToast]

vote:aronis

Much better lynch than nacho

[ToastyToast]

Process of elimination leaves Aronis, Nacho, Dry-Fit, Xayzeck as scum candidates. Xay hasn't done anything significantly scummy to my knowledge. Dry-Fit and Aronis I don't think are scum together. I'm pretty sure that makes Nacho the best lynch.

You do realize that process of elimination trends are what is wrong with mafia games here? Like there has been such a decline in town performance because of this, and it fails more than it wins.

[ToastyToast]

ok guys let's not have a last minute wagon this time.

I suppose that was the hammer.

Nacho and Dry-fit both have a higher chance to flip scum IMO, but certainly not a terrible lynch.

I still don't understand why you think this...Is Dry-fit based solely on the consistency of his stance on salamance/elyse?

ok guys let's not have a last minute wagon this time.

[ToastyToast]

No, I did not realize that. I readily believe that games are being lost because people overvalue their town reads and misapply them in the process, but there is nothing fundamentally wrong with PoE. I personally tend to be cautious in handing out town reads and very rarely am completely fooled by scum. I feel that in after the D1 deadline shenanigans, PoE is warranted. And unless I see a compelling reason why I shouldn't be town reading Pere and Iecerint (and you), I'm not going to change my approach.

Overvaluing reads and PoE go hand in hand though. Town blocks make me want to vomit.

And your reads seem to be diametrically opposed to mine, so I'm having a lot of trouble understanding where you are coming from.

[ToastyToast]

OK, that makes sense to me.

Unvote; Vote: Nacho

This is a lazy hop.

[ToastyToast]

Downside to no lynching is that scum will probably kill whoever is being town read

[ToastyToast]

Downside to no lynching is that scum will probably kill whoever is being town read

I don't think we've got a universally townread player at the moment, though.

Yeah I was just thinking about it. I think we should no lynch but I would like everyone to post a brief summary of our reads so no one makes a dumb decision next day phase.

[ToastyToast]

Alright, so here are my scum reads. I'm not going to make any long cases but its where my head is at.

Firstly, I'd like to point out that

all four of the people who weren't on the Salamance lynch are currently alive

. Just sayin.

CTD/burn

People Burn voted: Dry-fit, Salamance (scum), Juls/Aronis (town)
People voted: Aronis (town), Nacho (town), Dry-fit (my biggest town read)
Replaced: burn, who, if memory serves, had quite a bit of suspicion on them. I have no idea what CTD has done to clear this suspicion.
People who have voted against the slot: Salamance (scum), PeregrineV, GeminiBlind (town), Juls/Aronis (town), Nacho (town)

I think that by itself says a bunch. CTD's reads have been very opposed to my own, and given the flips, they should at the very least have little credibility. Being wrong about lynches in and of itself is not scummy, but I find his reasons for suspicion lacking. I feel like CTD is scum trying to go after tougher players to figure out, and to cast suspicion on players previously considered town. Meanwhile, this distracts from the fact that much of the dead found him suspicious as well. If we no lynch, CTD should without question be lynched next.

I find his posts after the nacho lynch suspicious as well. There is no significant change in his reads, and his reading into the no lynch suggestion is unecessary. The possibility of scum gaining powers is a scary one, and if CTD is really that concerned about the "risk/reward," then would he be willing to risk being lynched right now to prove he stands behind it? Probably not. I see CTD as someone trying to lead the town in a direction when he really should be sheeping at this point given the previous failures of his reads (or, at least, he should think a little harder about his reads given that nacho "oh so shockingly" flipped town). I am

almost

willing to bet that he and iecerint are scum together.

Iecerint

People he's voted: Juls/Aronis (town), WitnessProtection/Toasty, Salamance (scum), Peregrine (he also mentioned suspecting Dry-Fir at one point), Aronis again, Xayzcek, Nacho (town, and this was after Xayzceks "I'm voting nacho because I don't like him being around long lololol policy lynch bs, AND CTD's belief that nacho was scum because he "wan't trying hard enough. Bad sheeping at its finest)
People who have voted against Iecerint: StrangerCoug (town), Xayzcek, Nacho (town)

So in addition to being town-read by people for no reason (never good), he's also been fairly buddy-buddy with CTD. I've also felt he was suspicious since the beginning. The lack of active improvement (something that I usually see when playing with Iecerint) also worries me. he has also effectively suspected EVERYONE OTHER than CTD. so......I for one think that is very telling. There has been a lot of active lurking here and very little content. Nonetheless, my scumread on him is partly dependent on CTD, so I don't think he should be lynched first.
Oh, he also called me anti-town despite having played with me before. Don't think I don't remember stuff like that...

And now that I've caught up, that's about all I have to say on the topic. D:

Iecerint summarizing his role in this game.

Looking through his posts, there is also a lot of "hey, you should vote Toasty with me." "why aren't you voting PV?" with little explanations as to why. Its that sort of subtle manipulation that always stand out when performing ISO'S...

If I were to pick a third, it would be Xayzeck, but really I think Xayzeck is such lynch bait at this point and the most likely mislynch target for scum.

Oh, and for reference:

People Salamance voted for:

burn/CTD, PeregrineV, Xayzeck

People who voted against Salamance at some point:

StrangerCoug, burn/CTD, dryfit, nacho, xayzeck, peregrineV, ToastyToast, GeminiBlind,

People on the Salamance lynch:

StrangerCoug (town), ToastyToast, Iecerint, Nacho (town), Dry-fit, Aronis (town)

People off the Salamence lynch:

CTD, Gemini, Xayzeck (on Aronis); Salamance (on Xayzeck); PeregrineV (not voting)

[ToastyToast]

Also, Toasty asking everyone to post reads before a NL (subsequent to arguing that the towniest player would be nightkilled if we NL) is terribad, one way or the other.

Here you go again saying shit without any actual basis behind it. Why is it bad to post reads? If someone dies then we have stuff to go off of. And its what we should be doing anyway.

[ToastyToast]

Needless to say, we should mass claim. I'm vanilla town. Order doesn't matter to me. If it indeed turns out that this is an all vanilla set up, I'd consider it a given that we are only looking for one more scum player and there would be even less reason to no lynch, IMO.

I'm also a VT

Gemini Blind didn't have me as a strong scum read. StrangerCoug actually had me in his town block. That's the people who were killed at night. Aronis also didn't have me as a strong scum read. The only player who died wanting me dead was Nacho.

I was referring to burn when I talked about Gemini, I believe. And it doesn't change the fact that Aronis died being one of the few to suspect you. Scum often make kills/lynches that are potentially troublesome for their slots, I don't think this changes that.

Toasty, I don't think your case against me is ill-intended, but it is very misguided. Most of your arguments, as well as your unwillingness to actually engage me on any of our opposed reads indicate to me a deep paranoia that's clouding your judgement:

I don't see a problem with being paranoid in mylo. I operate defensively, and listen to my gut first and foremost, so you aren't really enlightening me on the paranoia bit. It isn't clouding my judgement--its informing it.

The possibility of scum gaining powers is only scary if we are in lylo and the only way to get out of lylo (or mylo) is to lynch today (going by the previous assumption of 2 scum left, which was the basis for my argument). Iece's no lynch road plan actually results in two days where scum could get good luck (with 33% likelyhood on the last day) while lynching today has the potential to result in none. We'd have to lynch scum either today or tomorrow anyway and there is literally no question that lynching today gives us better odds to win.

Fair enough.

I believe you have yet to explain why Dry-fit is such a strong town read for you and why you disagree with my case against him. I would greatly appreciate it if you could set your suspicions of me aside for a second and actually talk to me about our disagreements. If not for your benefit, then for my own. Thank you.

....ok this is a mafia game last I checked I was supposed to push people. Is it a new system to just set that shit aside? I mean the people not providing content in this game may be suggesting so...

1) Regardless of the accuracy or consistency of his reasons, Dry-fit was the biggest proponent of the Salamance wagon. For some reason I get town credit for it, but he doesn't?
2) He has called out multiple people for lazy voting.
3) I find the progression of his read on PV to be very natural/authentic

If you are concerned that scum will kill the perceived-towniest player, surely everyone ranking the players from towniest to least-townie is the tryhardiest way to make that happen.

Scum are going to do that shit regardless. Information is

everything

in mafia, and that outweighs whatever scum may or may not do. Also I'm about 95% positive scum will kill me, and with that in mind I'd like people to listen to what I have to say now and not find reasons to ignore it. Shoving it in their face is the best way to do that, and I would expect other town to feel the same way.

Are you suggesting we all pretend to be scummy as fuck to confuse the scum team into killing themselves?
It would explain your gameplay this game but seems

quite

unlikely.

CTD said it, too, in the context of saying that he and I were obvtown. Nacho I inferred in the context of agree with StrangerCoug that I was town. I'm sure there were others. It wasn't in any way a controversial read until D3 started and people bizarrely became know-nothings.

But StrangerCoug and Nacho are dangerous players with "town rally call" playing styles that get night killed not for their performance but their influence and potential late-game (yes, I know Nacho was mod-killed, but I think scum was going after him for that reason). Also there is no way scum

wasn't

pushing the nacho wagon, and let's not ignore that or think that "oh i'm considering it but my reads aren't changed by it" is a valid reaction.

In other news, where the f is xayzeck?
And peregrine catch up soon, please. This isn't the time for continued passivity.

[ToastyToast]

Oh look I pissed one off

[ToastyToast]

You should rush NL if you're going to NL for the same reason that you should rush lynches in assassins in the palace. You are wrong, or you are making up theory (lazily) to fit what you think should happen.

[ToastyToast]

I don't think the PV->Nacho thing suggests or doesn't suggest possible CTD-Iec scum team. You 2 just happen to be my biggest scumspects and have little association with one another.

Patiently waiting for certain unnamed people to do something.

[ToastyToast]

vote:Iecerint

Because if ctd is town there is a chance he blocks the NK

[ToastyToast]

I am for no lynching I theory, but with our lazy ass town doing so isn't going to actually impact anything. Like, scum will just kill one of the more active players and we'll be left with people who aren't caught up in lylo.

[ToastyToast]

In theory*

[ToastyToast]

What a shocking night kill!

I'll be on to post thoughts later today. Interesting this all of a sudden CtD and Iecerint aren't bff's

[ToastyToast]

I think its stupid to consider one or two scum. We should just be voting for who we think is scum. Anything else is secondary and we cannot know given our current information.

@Iece: When I did my ISO you guys rarely talked to one another which suggests potential scumbuddies.

Also, does that mean you think CTD is scum if there are 2 but not if there is one? In which case, I think you need to stop trying to decode 1/2 scum, and no one should be making decisions based on it. Because there is no way to know other than setup speculation, which is always going to be an erroneous path.

[ToastyToast]

The probability of my hide ending the game with a scum win outright was 60% (can't hide behind scum, can't hide behind NK target, the chance of their targeting me is basically 0%). I didn't think through the ramifications of the nympho role very carefully.

Your claim means that if Xayzeck is scum, you would have to be his buddy. You could also be scum with non-Xayzeck. If you are town, the scum have to be PereV and Toasty from my POV.

Just saw this lol. In what universe?

[ToastyToast]

I cannot decide whether Toasty is scum or simply not very good at critical thinking. He's never really made a strong impression on me in forum mafia. We used to play face to face together some, but that was like 2-3 years ago.

well fuck you, too. I play off of emotional tells and I'm so sorry if this is somehow inferior to your wonderful play this game.

[ToastyToast]

Summary of this game so far from my perspective:

Toasty: I think Salamance is scum!

Salamance flips scum

Toasty: Could be Xayzeck, but I'm more sure on CTD/Iecerint

*gets ignored as usual because this playerlist is lazy (and yeah, I'm also not the best articulating my rationale for scum but that doesn't make me more incorrect than anyone else)

Toasty: crap, out of time. Well, Aronis is a slightly better lynch than Nacho, I guess...

Aronis flips town
Nacho gets modkilled but was town

Toasty: no lynch is fine but its just going to result in bigger town reads getting killed (*cough Dry-fit who was only not a town read for...CTD, I believe?)

Dry-fit gets night killed

Now:

Iece and CTD: let's waste time determining whether or not there is one or two scum!!

Iece: Yeah Toasty is dumb he even missed a correction I made to an earlier post wow he lacks critical thinking skills Let's discredit him and suggest he's scum because THAT makes sense

Toasty: Yeah, Iece. If you are a master of critical thinking at mafia then you should go back to mafia school because IT ISN'T WORKING. If there is one scum, its you. If there are two, its still you. And I knew it from day 1. Be bitter if you want to.

[ToastyToast]

This would be just writing off your whole play as whiteknighting, no? Like, oh I got my first scumread right, here's proof, follow my reads in potential lylo!

Isn't white-knighting when you hard-defend someone who is being attacked by other players? Because that's not what I've done as all, and I don't know how you come to that conclusion. If you are referring to Aronis/Nacho, then you probably haven't read the game (shocker).

I had a null read on Aronis at the time of his lynch, but we were out of time so I preferred lynching a null read to obv town
Nacho was not being attacked by a majority, and I did not really defend him. I attacked the people attacking him because their reasons were super shitty.
My biggest town-reads throughout the game were Dry-fit and Nacho. Countering arguments you see as poor or misguided

is not

akin to white-knighting.

As for the second part, its more like:
"Oh, look at all these dead people, and look at how many time we've been

wrong

. Perhaps we should look at the dead people and see what we can glean from them? Perhaps if we've been following one line of process of elimination bullshit that has

failed

thus far we should, idk,

TRY SOMETHING NEW?

"

[ToastyToast]

I did not say that I was a master of mafia; I said that your reactions to my posts suggest that you are not reading them to determine my alignment, which is most consistent with you being scum (OR, with you not being a very good player -- YMMV on what makes a good player, etc).

And you come to this conclusion because I missed a correction.

And how exactly do you expect me react? Lol its ok iece xoxo I'm happy you think I'm either scum or stupid <3

Which is a false dilemma fallacy btw, and it is an attempt to discredit my worth as a player in the game.

To further explain:
wow I dislike his reaction because ??. Therefore he must be
a) dumb
b) scum

there is no way he could be:
c) town reacting to an attack made on his gameplay
d) town reacting to an attack made on his allignment
e) town who is way beyond a change of their read on you

(all of which are true, in this case). You say this knowing full well that I am a person who would NEVER accept being addressed as dumb, too. I mean, very few people would, and you seem to suggest that defending myself is somehow an indicator of scum?

I thought Xayzeck was the most likely scum going into today, for the same active lurking you pointed out somewhere early in your iso, but CTD's claim means it is only even possible for him to be scum if there are 2 scum and they are scum together, so I am having to think about other possibilities.

You mean you are running out of reads you can fake.

Give me one ACTUAL reason as to why I could be scum other than Process of Elimination bullshit.
Also, if you were searching for new scum reads based on new potential evidence, perhaps you would look at

the dead people

This sequence of things would never occur to someone who is scum unless they are doing seriously next-level shit. If Toasty thinks I am incompetent at the game, it is (again) parsimonious to assume I am simply town.

my read has nothing to do with your incompetence.........if you were actually reading my posts maybe you would realize that. But then again the few times I've played with you, I haven't really been in awe of your critical thinking skills. So you are either dumb town or scum.

[ToastyToast]

I think you can pretty easily infer that I think you and Iecerint are scum buddies. I've said so multiple times in the past.

And the two of you are doing

exactly

what I would expect scum to do. whoopdefucking do you confirmed someone. That doesn't mean shit.

[ToastyToast]

And it is a complete waste of time. Trying to dig for set up doesn't lead to anything

[ToastyToast]

It's not hugely relevant anymore because we have to lynch anyway and either the game will end or not.

you chastising me and Iece for supposedly "wasting time" by discussing an aspect of the set up that is or was absolutely vital to figuring out correct town play rings false to me as well.

K.

[ToastyToast]

I wish Peregrine would post.

Really hard to play when only 3 people are talking. If town loses it's because of inactivity.
Will respond when I'm not on a phone, as I do have some things to say

[ToastyToast]

You are correct that you could be an irrational person -- i.e., not a good player. That is not outside of the universe of possibilities that I am considering. You can mentally replace "dumb" with "irrational" or "plays scummy" if it makes you feel better. There are lots of high-profile players on this site who play that way, including players who do it proudly and encourage others to do it more so that they can win more (e.g., because it's easier to maintain a neutral meta when one draws scum if they cultivate that playstyle). (I am contemptuous of that trend, and it's going to be reflected in how I talk about people who play that way.)

....I often get labelled as playing scummy but that doesn't make me any worse a player than you. And yes, I take offense to you saying so. Shocking that I would.

My point is you are arguing that I can only be one of two things without any basis to come to that conclusion.

I am not a player who is about making cases, nor am I amazing at convincing people that my reads are correct. That doesn't make me a shitty player. It just makes it tougher for me to get taken seriously. None of this is allignment indicative.

The main difference between town and scum is that town want to figure out alignments and scum already know them. If you are playing in a way suggesting that the content in the thread is interesting to you NOT primarily to the extent that it helps you discern alignments, you are playing the game the way scum do.

This is fundamentally untrue. For one, there are TONS of instances in which town players have "fixed" reads. Tunnelling is a common occurrence, and, again, not alignment indicative. In fact, if you are going for meta, I probably tunnel way more as town because I have a lot of confidence in my reads once I form them. My being

confident

in the reads I have does not make me scum. I've already discerned the alignments. In my mind the only thing that could change this is participation for Xayzeck and Peregrine, which has been minimal throughout the game.

Good scum play by going with the flow of a game. This means that their reads can change, or they could not. You seem to suggest that I'm not using any information to form my reads, when I have formed my reads over the course of four days. I didn't have a scum read on CTD day one. In fact, I thought burn was leaning town. Additionally, whereas I don't think claiming roleblocker clears CTD, note that I DID give him the chance to use it because I thought it could be gamechanging if true. I'm not as inflexible as you suggest.

Toasty's behavior seems like he entered today with an "easiest path to wincon" agenda and isn't deviating from it or reevaluating it in the face of new information. That is something that I do only when I am scum. I have a hard time believing that he is town.

Also, scumplay is dependent on the others within the game. I am not usually one to get into WIFOM/"well if I were scum" moments, but I think it is valid here. I am not an idiot. I do fairly well as scum, the few times I've had the chance to play (which, granted, is only 3 times--4 if you include my 3rd party win).

Whether there is one scum or two, if I were one of those scum, keeping Dry-fit alive would allow me to auto win. He had a STRONG town read on me, and we had the same opinions on the player list. I highly doubt he would have a sudden shift in logic if alive. In addition, Dry-fit had way more influence this game than myself, and I as scum could easily sheep him to victory.

The reason why I think mentioning this is appropriate is because this isn't really a situation where you can say "well, maybe you did that to throw off the trail!!!!!"

Like, if scum, I would have had a 95% chance of winning with Dry-fit still in the game.

If I am somehow being inflexible or coming to conclusions without using new information, then so are you.

I am reading your posts very carefully.

Then why do you think my read on you is based on perceived incompetence?

I have never argued that you are scum by Process of Elimination, except in the context of 2-scum, which I have mostly discounted at this point, anyway, and even in that case it was just one of a few possible pairings.

...Which means you have argued I'm scum by process of elimination at some point.

Isn't white-knighting when you hard-defend someone who is being attacked by other players? Because that's not what I've done as all, and I don't know how you come to that conclusion. If you are referring to Aronis/Nacho, then you probably haven't read the game (shocker).

In my experience, it's defending someone or pushing for someone whose alignment you know, be it a scum or skills, and once they flip you can get other people to sheep you.

This is the best definition I could find for the given situation:

In forum parlance, it means rushing to the aid of another poster for whatever reason. An accusation typically reserved for when a poster is being hammered by another poster(s) and the accused leaps in to defend them, usually without thinking things through as to why the person is being attacked.

[ToastyToast]

If your answer to my criticism is basically "I am an irrational player and will not towntell because I do not play like a town player," then that might be totally valid for you, but it is not going to really help me to determine your alignment. I think it is a selfish way to play the game. It's not like playing a town game during lylo is going to ruin your D1-D3 scumgame.

I think there are a lot of different ways to play the game of mafia and it does not have to be logic based to be successful. I operate on emotional tells and play defensively. This will always be my style because its reflective of my personality. If I'm making arguments based fully on logic then I'm being fake, and I'm not having fun playing. So I'm not going to play that way.

[ToastyToast]

Also I will try to post a summary of my suspicions for you tomorrow, but it is going to take some time condensing. I don't want to just make a quote wall of things I've said in the past.

[ToastyToast]

my playstyle isn't antitown though...its worked for 4 years.

[ToastyToast]

Aries' Daily Horoscope: Be careful about being manipulated by another person today, Aries. It's possible that someone is putting words in your mouth in order to get you to act a certain way. Don't fall into this trap. Be your own person and think for yourself. Your mind is susceptible and vulnerable now. Use your eyes and ears as a filter and don't let people unload their garbage on you.

Okay these are starting to make me nervous. If RC has been posting relevant fortunes throughout the game I will facepalm.

[ToastyToast]

So this part is finally having-content, but it seems like the idea is basically that I was "buddy-buddy" with CTD. But you said earlier today that you thought we were together for never mentioning one another. So uh. Yeah.

That may sound misleading, but when I suggest buddy buddy I usually mean two things:
1) reads, joint attacks
2) Going after other people in a way that suggests favoritism towards others.

And I see both of these as scummy in many situations. As a means of comparison, the reason I had a strong Dry-fit read early on is because he would engage with every player, regardless of his read on them. This suggests that he's thinking beyond easy majorities and easy lynches.

I see the two of you as being very similar when it comes to scum reads and pushes, which can happen if scum have an active quick topic and decide who they are going after as a unit.

I've examined your ISO and there are very few mentions of CTD prior to D4, which is after I had criticized the two of you on this.

My other reasons for Iece scum are the following:

The early attack on my slot read opportunistic:

You voted Witness Protection for a random vote and immediately call me anti-town. this shows me that you don't take other points of view seriously. I also feel that you were using my alleged "anti-town" style as a means to discredit what I've had to say throughout the game.

Meta Failure:

Before I start this section, know that I don't put a lot of weight in meta. However, you called me "anti-town" and criticized me for almost everything I did upon entering the game. We have played a decent amount of games together, and I feel like you would, at the least, be taking me seriously. I may not be the best at argumentation, but I still manage to get shit done. Unconventional? Maybe.

I guess my point here is that given outside knowledge, a town player would not immediately stop listening to what I had to say. On the other had, for scum, it would be very convenient to become stand-offish and brand me as anti town--ESPECIALLY given the circumstances in which I entered.

Under the Radar Gameplay:

Your role in the game was not consistent, and when suspicion started to stray away from you onto other players, you would active lurk. Pop in from time to time and give your input, pop back out and let everyone else do the arguing. When all the more active, louder people started to get picked off. You arose to take their place

especially

after the nacho modkill. You were very pro-no-lynch, but from my point of view you were relatively quiet before nacho.

Posts like these (remember when I criticized you for giving terrible explanations?:

Anywho...I agree with Nachomamma. If the day vig does not occur today then we must assume scum owns it. In fact, I suggest we put someone at L-1 and then force everyone to do exactly what I did

Kill: Soinso

to flush it out before the end of the day. You don't have to be swayed by "town" but you gotta shoot. Agreed? Good.

This is a good plan.

Yeah, Burn's post is pretty bad.

Funfact: the only post you made about CTD/Burn slot about allignment prior to day 4

Happy with my vote on WP=TT.

You have a lot of these. Instead of case-making or actually engaging with the game. You would just pop in with friendly reminders about your thoughts that no one really cared about (related to UTR point)

And now that I've caught up, that's about all I have to say on the topic. D:

@ TT - I think I should be obvier town by now, so I suppose so.

Oh I just found this gem btw (this one is just for giggles):

I actually found Elyse town prior to her fingering me

WTF????

I think you get the picture

The most important thing is something you quoted, but seemed to miss the point of:

More important than you associations with CTD is your position on wagons.

Final Day 1 Vote Count

• Salamence20 (6) - ( StrangerCoug - ToastyToast - Iecerint - Nachomamma8 - Dry-fit - Aronis)
  
  Aronis (3) - ( CrashTextDummie -
  Dry-fit
  - Gemini Blind - Xayzeck)
  Xayzeck (1) - ( Salamence20 -
  Aronis
  -
  ToastyToast
  )
  
  Not Voting (1) ( PeregrineV -
  ToastyToast
  -
  Nachomamma8
  -
  Iecerint
  )

I still find it suspicious that the Salamence wagon has legit been killed off with the exception of myself and Iecerint, but at the same time would you not expect at least one person to hop onto the wagon? Especially after the failure that was the Elyse vig kill?
You also...didn't really like the Salamence wagon early, and had a very sudden shift in logic.

You disliked that I was on Salamence, and also berated StrangerCoug when he started questioning Salamence...only to hop onto him "after reviewing his posts."

Your reason for the hop? his use of the dayvig, which you label as inconsistent for town and poor if a town cop (I think your second reason is fine). I feel like you had a really strong dislike for this wagon, but changed you mind when you realized that time was running out. Salamence, at this point in time, was likely to be lynched. So you did what scum do and go with the least suspicious vote. Also, I think Salamence expected to be lynch after his awful claim, so he probably wanted a buddy to hop on. I didn't really think about that until now.

As far as associations with other people, I'll keep it short since I've already spent time on it:
PeregrineV: Your role on this was to say "hey, vote PV" and hope it sticks. I was seen as town at this point, and your read on me seemed to have dropped off

completely,

with 0 mention of the reason for the change.

If they wanted to mislynch you, why would they shoot Elyse and kill Gemini -- both of whom were on your wagon yesterday?

Well following that logic, the best way to set up a mislynch would be to kill off their support. So...the best way to mislynch me would be to get rid of dry-fit and nacho. Oh, wait, isn't that what you tried to do/DID happen?

Gemini Blind: "WOW that kill was so stoopid eh guys????"--sounded like a fake reaction to me

Now for the most noncommital post ever:

Unvote; Vote: Aronis

I'll be on a plane soon, so going to go ahead and vote now.

I skimmed Aronis and I guess he unvoted Salamance for a bit, so maybe that was him thinking people bought it. I don't really have time to review the chronology.

Nacho's read history today is kinda unnatural so I could see him being scum I guess, but I just don't feel that attached to lynching him after D1. It's unnecessarily conspiracy-oriented thinking at this piont imo, even if it ends up being valid.

I think I mentioned this before but it is seriously the grossest post you made. Yes, you were going on a plane. But if you were trying to save time then why create this wordy, "i'm on the mess and am so torn" mess?

Vote Aronis, begin to set-up the creation of a Nacho-line of attack when day opens!

Aronis' lynch day is also the one you disappeared for much of/active lurked the most on.

Then you switch from Xayzcek to Nacho and now you are on to me again! Its like we've come full circle!

So What do all these votes mean?

Actually, first, I seem to remember you thinking Dry-fit was scummy but I don't remember when this was. Do you recall?

1) ALL of your votes swung with the tides of the game.
2) You have had more scum reads than any other player this game, and your reasoning for shifts in who you saw as scum were either non-existent or incredibly sudden.
3) You disliked my slot at the beginning, but stopped talking about it until this point in the game: when I have no one who considers me a strong town read.

So, your votes have been opportunistic.

Your Hider Claim:

self-explanatory. Everyone has claimed VT other than you and Salamence, I believe?

I had one other point but I can't find the post so meh.

[ToastyToast]

On the Aronis vote: I just realized that you were the hammer, and that time constraints may have something to do with the wishy-washy nature of the post. I still find the tone of it suspicious, but I read it somewhat out of context I think.

[ToastyToast]

@Iece: the post about you getting fingered was a joke, as I said before quoting it, and is the only post "WTF" was referring to.

When you claimed hider, you made it sound like that was your actual role. And I don't think I'm the only one who thought this.

[ToastyToast]

Between xayzeck's "idk what I'm doing" and peregrine's "I'm out of steam you guys!".........I will probably take a long mafia break if they turn out to be winning scum.

[ToastyToast]

If possible I think we should make a list of all known fortunes/who had them. i mean this is probably endgame so I don't see how it hurts.

I haven't had any fortunes givne.

[ToastyToast]

Unless a subset of the horoscopes are real or something.

I was referring to the good luck/bad luck power thingies

[ToastyToast]

I am in very bad health and will likely spend the next couple of days in the hospital. I consequently haven't really thought about mafia the past days.

I have a doctor's appointment in a couple of hours and will be able to decide afterwards if I need to be replaced or not (depending on whether I need surgery today).

I'm very sorry I haven't given this game the attention it needs.

Get well soon.

[ToastyToast]

Alright I need to catch up to make sure those two aren't trying to use my read to their advantage.

[ToastyToast]

What the hell

[ToastyToast]

That seems too fast

[ToastyToast]

@mod: requesting extension to compensate for the V/LA of Peregrine and CTD's hospital situation

[ToastyToast]

Xayzeck what should we do???

[ToastyToast]

Ugh.

[ToastyToast]

well my guess was that I was kept alive due to my inclination toward Iecerint scum, so today is going to be mostly about me figuring out who would be more likely to do that. My CTD read was somewhat weakened over all the arguments last day phase, and it wouldn't surprise me if Peregrive was lurkscum. Still a lot to think about.

[ToastyToast]

Alright lets not have a deadline fail again guys.

What's scummier?

having a hard townread on someone and changing their mind at the last minute

or

doing literally nothing the entire game, then jumping on the same wagon we now know was town.

[ToastyToast]

Could you quote what post you are referring to when I said "maybe CTD is scum independently..."?

I don't think I ever said that, but given the potential of 1 scum, I don't know what is wrong about saying that.
And what is "phony" about the post?

Are you suggesting my not knowing deadline had been reached is fake? If so why, and what makes it different from Xayzeck's?

[ToastyToast]

Considering just voting now, because we're delaying things and not introducing any new content.

[ToastyToast]

vote: PeregrineV

If i lose this for town, I'm sorry. I just think its more likely...

I swear if its CTD tho I'm going to be real mad.

[ToastyToast]

No. You're either scum or we won. I was considering voting PV for a while, you just did it first. No point in delaying it if I don't see myself changing my mind.

[ToastyToast]

I was only focusing on Toasty because Peregrine was lurking.

Gg.

same here. In fact, most of that day I was growing in suspicion of Peregrine. We went after one another because at least we had some information to go off of.

People getting away with lurking is such a problem these days, so I'm glad I was able to detach myself from the iece-ctd scum team. All the no lynches and Nacho's modkill made it difficult to get information, so I guess scumPeregrine was good at making sure he was giving the least. But if I'm being honest, a large reason why I chose to vote Peregrine is because I would have rather lost to scumCTD than scumPeregrine this game. But it worked so yay.

[ToastyToast]

I suppose there's humor in the fact that not only did three townies cause the D4 no-lynch, but that they were all thinking (to some extent) that they were in lylo. I really was pretty furious at the time, but I'm glad I decided to stick with it and not replace out.

omfg. That was terrifying. I was at work and assumed we had at least a day left.

I'm surprised you were right about the two scum though.

[ToastyToast]

I enjoyed reading the scum thread as well (yay at not getting night killed because you thought I was a sure Iece vote <3; I was really suspicious when Xayzeck was killed over me).

[ToastyToast]

Iec, we really have played together a lot though. It HAS been a while so I don't blame you. I should check our game history.