Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[Josh_B]

Hey Josh,

You town?

Yep, I'm town.

[Josh_B]

Right now I think MS is town. The VT gambit is semi rolefishing but further play says maybe not. Trying to get a rise out of the Mason? most likely. Gonna draw out scum? Probably.

I'm following GM's 38 Zebulan's question seems to be missing a third option.

Mala even if you don't like MS's play right now, he seems to be the only one generating content so there is that. On the other hand, I'm really not feeling Town Huntress. So MS's inclusion of her as town is slightly concerning, but other wise no problem.

VOTE: Huntress

Ninja'd. Here I am posting my intro and I get sniped on calling huntress scum by Mala. GG Mala.

[Josh_B]

Good morning:

Thanks

[Josh_B]

I agree, nya does seem to be avoiding the game (scum lurking)

[Josh_B]

Hi Josh!
In post 137, Josh_B wrote:
On the other hand, I'm really not feeling Town Huntress.

Why would that be?

Lot's of probing questions, not a lot of personal POV.

BBT, I'm not understanding your vote on the soft defense. Seems more like MS was giving a POV than trying to defend someone. What would be the point of tying himself to his scum partner so quickly?

[Josh_B]

ed to know if Nyayaya is avoiding the game because there wasn't a daystart PM or if it's possible it's due to an alignment thing.

Alt slip much?

Site participation/game participation has nothing to do with the mod giving a daystart. Especially when a player has already posted in a game.

[Josh_B]

I could D1 PL on a 7 page week old game. It's probably better than a last minute D1 pressure lynch.

[Josh_B]

Well if not Nya, how about EspressoDan?

Alpha and Nopoint are prodable, all three of them are in the same category as Nya.
Surely there's something in this game to post about. Or a gambit to be played or something.

[Josh_B]

Will you stop trying to PL? Or even try to push a lynch before half the game has posted content or even before I get to sort out Huntress/gm.

I want to get a solid read on the two players I have played with the most. Then go down the list.

While you do that I'm going to be trying to gain some support to pressure these people who seem to think this is a no effort game.

[Josh_B]

shinobi, do you think you deserve a town read?

[Josh_B]

-Ok, Shinobi, I just happen to have an extra town read in my pocket. Here you go. But not because you think you deserve it. I'm just a nice guy and have extra pocket candy.

- Oh, there's a big surprise! That's an incredible. I think I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from that surprise!

Commercial break to respond to BBT, and cut in on his convo with Orange in Sharp Contrast.

This may take a while. It's the first time this game has had any remotely serious opinions.

[Josh_B]

Does anyone else feel like this is a 9 player game and it takes 7 votes to lynch?

I am going to have to shamefully postpone responding until this evening. Whichever player read this please find something in the last three pages to like or dislike for little or some reason. I don't care what BBT thinks about people butting in. It's part of the game, let him deal with it.

[Josh_B]

cause

I was up all night working and all day yesterday, and now I'm tired and going to sleep.

I've been kind of busy IRL.

[Josh_B]

In post 137, Josh_B wrote:
Right now I think MS is town. The VT gambit is semi rolefishing but further play says maybe not. Trying to get a rise out of the Mason? most likely. Gonna draw out scum? Probably.

You think town semi-role fish?

How do you think it draws out scum?

Yes.
Scum love WIFOM. It's like mafia crack. It's great for town... if you know how to read it, and it's responses. I'll make a town case of MS, wait for it.

[Josh_B]

Why would MS feel the need to answer a question directed at someone else? It would obviously be a mistake from scum that they would hope no-one would pick up on. I doubt MS made the post thinking he would get linked to NPAU.

It isn't a scum tell. That's just people being actively involved in the conversation.
Me either. Do you think we should Lynch NPAU to see if MS is trying to WK off of a lynch? Or do you think we should lynch MS so we get a clear off of NPAU?
I don't and neither of these two scenarios make sense. Maybe we can follow trails that actually lead to finding scum and not randomness. If I answer a question or but my nose into a conversation that just means I want to participate in the thread, judge my comments for their content.

[Josh_B]

TOWN CASE for MS:
Option1. MS is a VT looking to get recruited into the mason thread.
Possibilities:
1. The masons believe him and recruit him, at the same time scum kills him.
2. The masons don't recruit him because he may be NK'd, so they choose someone else, and scum NK him.
3. The masons recruit MS and the scum kill someone else because they are trying to outwit the masons.

Option2. MS is a scum trying to out the Masons.
Possibilities:
1. The Masons attempt to recruit MS, their actions fail and MS is lynched as conf scum.
2. The Masons do not attempt to recruit MS, and it is impossible for him to get NK'd.

Reason's why Option 1 is more likely. If MS was pulling a scum gambit the best scenario is a 1 for 1 situation, where one mason outs MS as scum and the other mason continues to recruit town. If MS is pulling a town gambit, the scum have the option to either Kill MS or allow him to live with the possibility that he is recruited into the masons. While the Masons can either accept the gambit knowing that MS could be NK'd, or attempt to recruit another town member. Causing MS to become the least likely town member to be recruited and the scum would then attempt to out guess who the Masons will recruit and NK someone else.
-Are you thirsty? Because that is some magical WIFOM right there. And no one is more of a WIFOM wizard than I.
Conclusion MS is a vanilla town trying to get recruited into the Mason thread, not a scum trying to out the masons.

[Josh_B]

Hmm, maybe you shouldn't town-read people so quickly.

I like this comment from BBT. Very townish. I can't tell you how many times I've town read someone for little or no reason only to get burned later. I think I remember Wolfy making this comment recently in another thread. But alas, town hunting is just as important as scum hunting. And getting it wrong is part of the game.

[Josh_B]

Why haven't you responded to the questions I asked you?

Are we better now?

[Josh_B]

Fyi;

that's actually a characteristic of town-Huntress, but I shouldn't be quick to townread her yet because she knows what to dodge when playing with me and something she posted makes me lack confidence that we have yet to have a town-huntress.

I accept your evaluation of her individual style. I don't know her, so I'm going with general scum behavior. I can relax my read to null scum at best, but then I want a Zebulan lynch. Let's get that started.

VOTE: Zebulan

[Josh_B]

No. Zebulon is a new + bad player but he is town.

He is mislynch bait, do not take it.

From the looks of the VC, so are you. But seriously. What do you think about this...

/snip
MetalSonic: Oh, this is an intresting one. Metal Sonic played post 28 ... interestingly so say the least. He did a weird VT/Mason gambit, then argued with me about grammar for 2 pages. He then vote hops and demands sheep. He then says a ton of stuff tat just confuses me (no conclusion), stops pressuring goodmorning, then starts pressuring goodmorning, then stops pressuring goodmorning. 65 posts is a good number, I admit, but that is some seriously weird play. Maybe his strategy is to confuse us all so we can't scumhunt effectively.
/snip
goodmorning: Can't read, can't read, pressure pressure pressure. Also attacking Metal Sonic, who I'm not the biggest fan of. 25 posts is good enough, and I like the effort.

There are valid points raised by others who I am too lazy to name

(I don't want to look it up), so not totally town.

He can't name the others, Because the name of the others is Sonic, who is his number one scum read? I mean it could be Alpha Sapphire bringing up the points, but her vote is still a holdover from RVS and she hasn't said much in her 3 posts. Mala mentioned wanting to get a better read on GM but other than that... I got nothing. Is anyone else bringing up any points? Maybe others are bringing up points on GM being town, but I don't really see that either. Maybe GM and MS are D1 bussing for no reason, that would make a whole lot of no sense.
What does make sense? Scum Zebulin. You can think it's mislynch fodder if you want, but this should be our plan of action this DP.

MetalSonic, I know I'm asking you, but NPAU, and Huntress feel free to chime in. You know what? Everybody chime in, I want to hear your voices.

[Josh_B]

'sup everyone?

Just saying hi but I will ketchup later today

Who is this?

[Josh_B]

This isn't very clear to me. Are you saying town semi-role fish? I don't understand why town would try to out the Masons.

How does MS' opening post specifically relate to drawing out scum? How does that work?

Oh jeez, is this a theory lesson or are you just antagonizing me because you know how? My offer to hydra is still on the table. How about calling our Hydra Prince Azure or Lord Gray? What do you think?

I don't think MS is trying to out the masons. Maybe that was unclear. I think he was trying to tell the masons to recruit him. Scum respond to that kind of stuff. It's like an ice cream truck to a six year old. Look at the immediate replies and tell me who you find the most suspicious. It's not solid evidence, but it's a good place to start with a FoS.

[Josh_B]

Umm, you regularly address questions that are not directed at you then? It kind of defeats the object of questioning someone if someone else answers first and provides an answer for the person who the question was directed at.

Yes, yes I do. Because I'm like that. Sometimes someone asks the dumbest questions, and I can't figure out WTF they are trying to get at. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, or maybe the question is being asked by scum trying to invent shit that isn't there. I don't know. Is the person asking the ? willing to listen to your PoV, or are they death tunneling on some useless crap and they are going to FoS the first person that gives them a reason, or no reason really. They just want to call everybody scum and push as many lynches as they can with as many people sheeping them as they can and they don't care if the person they are tunneling is town or not town because they aren't reading anyone's posts except for the part that helps them prove their retarded inventions.
Do you want to know what defeats the object of questioning someone? Ignoring the shit out what they say.

[Josh_B]

All of this is only true if we accept that MS was trying some sort of gambit. If he wasn't, then everything you're saying is irrelevant.

I accept it as a gambit.

Trying to get a rise out of the Mason? most likely.

How does 'get a rise out of' translate into 'trying to get recruited'?

Also, I don't hydra atm. If I decide I want to try it, you'll be the first to know.[/quote]
If you are the Mason, and you need to know who to clear and not to clear, are you just going to accept the gambit or do you need more information before you decide? I'm going to need more evidence than one post to decide who I'm going to recruit. At this point I think there is a reasonable amount of evidence to decide if the risk of recruiting MS outweighs the possibility of either having him NK'd, or him turning out to be scum.

[Josh_B]

Zebulin, How do you feel about being on the same wagon as Peabody? Does that change your reads at all?

[Josh_B]

I mean, yeah, it's only a one-shot cop. Not a multiple night thing. Poop.

This ^. SMH I need to read better.

[Josh_B]

I get that it's ridiculous, but you were pointing out his likelihood of being scum in a wishy washy manner, not his supposedly ludicrous manipulative attempts. DO you find any scum motivation behind the post?

Did I miss the answer to this? I feel like it's being ignored.

[Josh_B]

Option 3: MS is a Scum trying to get recruited in a suicide mission.
There are 3 Scum in this setup, and the sacrifice of 1 to
A. prevent the Masons from recruiting anyone
B. out one or both Masons with what amounts to a Cop guilty
would hardly be a stretch.
The Masons may only attempt to recruit once, so if it fails that's it. That's the problem with what you've put out there.

I was under a different impression of how many towns could be recruited. All that wine is now flat coke. Oddly enough, I'm still thirsty.

[Josh_B]

I accept it as a gambit.

Then this is where we differ.

And so it has been foretold, Onward to better reads and more scum hunting. Thusly, you may sheep me now.

Lot's of probing questions, not a lot of personal POV.

Questions are one of my main scumhunting tools. They help me work out where people are coming from.
/snip
I wanted to know if he had genuine reason for voting me or was just trying to avoid the main wagons.

Were there main wagons? I didn't notice. There are still some unfounded RVS posts on the board.

What does make sense? Scum Zebulin. You can think it's mislynch fodder if you want, but this should be our plan of action this DP.

MetalSonic, I know I'm asking you, but NPAU, and Huntress feel free to chime in. You know what? Everybody chime in, I want to hear your voices.

I said I would give Zeb the benefit of the doubt earlier if he could tell me why he thought MS was scummy, as opposed to just confusing, because my gut was saying Zeb was town. But he still doesn't seem to be able to do that, and he seems to realise it because in 276 he now says that his case is built around the scummier parts of MS like vote-hopping (which he didn't mention before and which is not an alignment tell anyway). If that was the case, why not include it in 239? It just looks like he is trying to find excuses to support his vote.

Well then climb aboard. I don't think the EspressoDan thing is going anywhere. Also I think it's funny that he said "'We' spent 2-3 pages discussing Sonic's wording and grammar.." when that dude was nowhere to be found.

[Josh_B]

Zebulin, How do you feel about being on the same wagon as Peabody? Does that change your reads at all?

What do you mean by this?

I'm voting BBT at the moment.

-Well this sucks. I guess I'll have to ask some different questions.

QFT. Mod can you fix this? After I iso'd peabody, it doesn't look like he ever voted for MS. Plus, Peabody mentioned his vote was wrong earlier

[Josh_B]

Pink is really hard to read.

anyways BBT did you bring up some points about GM being scum?

[Josh_B]

Yea! Scripten.[/sarcasm]

[Josh_B]

Zebulin, What do you think about the interactions between NPAU and GM?

[Josh_B]

Zebulin, What do you think about the interactions between NPAU and GM?

I feel like their argument against each other is the other person's argument is bad, which a bad argument and circular logic. My gut says it's town vs town, but I'm not 100% sure. (Well, no one is except the scum or if they're the 2 masons.)

What? I'm saying he's

not reading my fucking posts

.

His argument would be fine IF IT WAS BASED ON REALITY.

My, My, This post comes off as very defensive. How do you feel about Zebulin calling you and NPAU both town?

Perhaps, you aren't following my posts. So, I'm sad. Look at this face.

Huntress seems to be picking up on what I'm throwing down. I do not understand Zebulin's read on GM at all. At risk of repeating myself and her, the non inclusion of MS and NPAU(the loudest voices against GM) in his opinion are just as significant as his inclusion of an RVS Flaker, a fence sitter, and an I'm not even sure what he means by GM making points against herself.

[Josh_B]

@JoshB: What are your reads on the goodmorning/NPAU argument? (I meant to post this immidiately after post 319.)

Yea. There are some things that I care for on both sides, and some things that I don't care for. Nothing overly damning to me.

[Josh_B]

Does this in anyway imply that he's more townish?

Yes.

[Josh_B]

GM, BBT and MS. Yes, I know that the actual votes were a bit on and off but there was enough talk about them to give that impression. With GM in particular MS and BBT were claiming there were more votes on her than there ever were. The four rvs votes still on the board are all on different people.

None of it was significant enough for me to consider any of those as "major" wagons at the time.

[Josh_B]

Josh B - Disagree with him about MS. I don't think the content that's been generated by his gambit was particularly good. I will agree that it got the game out of RVS, which might have been its intent. Dislike his push on Huntress. Like his push on Zebulin, though I'm not ready to lay a vote yet. Light town read. (I'd appreciate him NOT ruining this game by being a jerk to me over completely unrelated reasons, though. Thanks.)

Seriously though, thanks for subbing in. I was just trying to give you a hard time. But, let's see where the game goes. I'll try not to be overly critical.

[Josh_B]

Deadline: 14 days, 12 hours, 55 minutes

Is this part still right? I know there have been a lot of sub ins, and I kind of expected a small extension of some sort, but a full 14 more days?

[Josh_B]

Is this in relation to Zeb's reads-list?

Yes.

[Josh_B]

What an awful answer. Can you elaborate on this please? What do you care for? What don't you care for? How are you reading GM and NPAU right now?

1.Nope
2. ...
3. ...
4. I'm fence sitting until some sort of conviction sets in. But if you must know, I'm considering sheeping your current vote because this post...

I'm putting BBT in my anti-sheep list. That's how little faith I have in him right now.

... makes me feel like your vote is significant, But I'm happy where I am at the moment.

[Josh_B]

Maybe you can CwatIsee

Spoiler: Zebulin

goodmorning: Can't read, can't read, pressure pressure pressure. Also attacking Metal Sonic, who I'm not the biggest fan of. 25 posts is good enough, and I like the effort. There are valid points raised by others about who I am too lazy to name (I don't want to look it up), so not totally town.

Ok so the first part that I'm having trouble with, is that he has MS as hard scum. In this post he says that he isn't going to say who is making the valid points, the phrasing is "making valid points that GM is scum." But as I mentioned earlier, MS is one of the leading voices against GM. Now I'm having trouble figuring out whose side he's on here even more so after he clarified who he thinks is making valid points...

The nae of the others is Alpha Sapphire, goodmorning, and BlueBloodedToffee. ESPECIALLY BlueBloodedToffee. There you go.

.
Alpha Saphire- as also pointed out by Huntress RVS'd because of goodmorning's name
BBT- Said one thing that I know of about a possible scum GM that wasn't even his own argument. 183 It was MS's argument.
I don't think GM made any points about herself being scum.

NPAU and MetalSonic are the two people who have called GM scum the most. But they aren't mentioned by him at all. According to his opinion of NPAU v. GM, he says TvT. So, it would make more sense if he was flatly town reading GM whom he shares a scum read with, but he isn't.

There's some other things in the post that make me think Scum Zebulin. His high town read on Shinobi which contradicts posts 66
NPAU gets a lurk/null read with 2/5 posts containing content, whereas Mala gets a full on scum read saying that only half of her posts are content related (I disagree with his view of content related). With Mala's 18 posts as a replacement, I'd say she's was one of the games top contributors at that time. Not giving a read on me, seems a little silly considering that he seems to think very highly of post counts and given the fact that I had about 18 posts prior to his reads list.

I think that's every little thing that I find wrong with Zebulin, feel free to help me lynch him if you agree, or share a different PoV if you have one.

[Josh_B]

re 365

I'm beginning to feel comfortable with my insanity.

I could reasonably see myself voting for NPAU.

[Josh_B]

I'm not sure if he's scum.

He's been saying weird shit thus far, but it's MS: that's just how he is. I don't feel like anything he has said thus far has been particularly alignment indicative.

Though I will admit that it's complete nonsense...

Shinobi

:

Seems towny. I really like post 75, and 19 posts is pretty active. He

doesn't seem to care for Metal Sonic very much

, but isn't calling anyone out particularly. He is trying to get the game moving, which is nice.

I'm don't see what makes him think that Shinobi doesn't like Metalsonic. Or maybe I'm thinking too narrow mindedly about Zebulin's post.
Shinobi doesn't like MetalSonic "in this game" (my understanding)
Shinobi doesn't like MetalSonic "at all" (possible meaning)
but still not sure why Zebulin thinks that.

On another note. I like zebulin's recent explanation. Can we vote Peabody now?

VOTE: peabody

[Josh_B]

Which lead me to believe a 'sheep me-BBT' is not entirely truthful in his convictions.

He never is. Lucky for you that you are finding this out now as opposed to later. I think I speak for all of us that know BBT, your case is weak. Is there anything else that you want to add?

[Josh_B]

Sonic,
Can you move Shinobi down to maybe town. His inability to make a stance rings hallow to me. And you can put Scripten into the town pile?

[Josh_B]

Is that typical of him to be over-the-top convicted of a read?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58856

For reference.

[Josh_B]

NPAU do you think people are making pot shots at you because you have 8 posts and 5 of them contain vote changes?
That's if you count your "confirm" post. Nearly all of your posts have had a vote change.
Goodmorning
BBT
Huntress
Goodmorning again
and Now
Mala

On top of that, they are nearly all without player engagement.
I'm still not sure what the Huntress vote was for. Can you explain?

[Josh_B]

Requesting Replacement

I could go on and on about why, but I just don't have time for 2 games and I'm totally outmatched in skill in this one. It helps town if I replace.
I'll keep on playing until a replacement is found, don't worry.

Reads:

Very Town: Shinobi, JoshB
Town: Scripten, Peabody, JoshB
Null/Lurk: Everyone Else, JoshB
Scum: Metal Sonic, Malakittens, JoshB
Very Scum: JoshB


One question before I leave; What the heck is with Uncle Sonic? Is it a strategy, scumhunting tool or just trolling?

I'm on every list. Why do you think it will help us if you replace out?

[Josh_B]

MS, Why are you being such an Avatar Hater?

[Josh_B]

Searching for a replacement for Zebulin.

Gosh you people stink. I should change the name of the thread to Making friends and Replacements.

Speaking of replacements, Our replacements Ucitron and hephestus need prods.

[Josh_B]

NPAU do you think people are making pot shots at you because you have 8 posts and 5 of them contain vote changes?
That's if you count your "confirm" post. Nearly all of your posts have had a vote change.
Goodmorning
BBT
Huntress
Goodmorning again
and Now
Mala

On top of that, they are nearly

all without player engagement.

I'm still not sure what the Huntress vote was for. Can you explain?

I don't see a problem with vote changes, especially in the beginning of the game, when you are trying to figure out who is scum among the many.
My vote on Huntress was a gut thing. I felt like she was mainly cruising through the game being neutral. She had no vote so I voted her to see how she would respond. She didn't really respond but I was back at arguing with BBT before I could follow up on it

You never really followed up with BBT though either. re: 228 Can you say why you think BBT is townish?

[Josh_B]

oh, I get it now too.
If I say your name three time in the thread, you appear.
Why is it beetlejuice, and not candyman, or bloodymary?

[Josh_B]

Hmm, Josh why are you voting Peabody?

I'd explain it to you but it's really null now that Zeb isn't here.

.....Peabody.......

might be scum

[Josh_B]

Mod:

Could we get a votecount pretty please? Would suck to get a derphammer.

Prod Dodge Mod: I'm waiting on this TOO! Can we start getting one of these every 24 hours even if it stays exactly the same?

[Josh_B]

I'm not sure about NPAU anymore. I think there's unanimous consent that he's scum. I want to vote there, but I have to agree with Peabody on this one. Hephastus's vote looks the exorbitantly opportunistic. That's where I want to serious vote.

VOTE: Hephastus

I tried a re read on this game. Most of the accusations of town/scum are pretty null.

[Josh_B]

I'm not sure about NPAU anymore.

I think there's unanimous consent that he's scum.

I want to vote there, but I have to agree with Peabody on this one. Hephastus's vote looks the exorbitantly opportunistic. That's where I want to serious vote.

VOTE: Hephastus

I tried a re read on this game. Most of the accusations of town/scum are pretty null.

What changed your read on NPAU?

Just the fact that Heph voted him?

If he were scum, don't you think that at least one of his buddies would assist?

[Josh_B]

If he were scum, don't you think that at least one of his buddies would assist?

You actually think everybody is accusing NPAU of being scum?

Is that why he's only at L-3 or whatever it is?

Let me give a detailed analysis. Because it's really easy to +NPAU +scum in the search bar.
I'll just list them as I find them

Sonic 450
BBT 600
Peabody 526
Huntress 373
Shinobi 583
Scripten 540
Hephestus 512
Goodmorning 279

I tried to get a better read on him, by asking about his play because he really wasn't trying to interact with anyone. I feel like he avoided that part twice, and once from Davesaz so I think he is pretty scummy.
Oh shit, that's 9 players
With missing definitive answers from
Malakittens
Ucitron- he's still in this game right?
and
Davesaz. I thought Davesaz said thought he was scum when reiterated my question 488 but maybe that was just scumhunting.

[Josh_B]

Let's all lynch Hephestus. I feel pretty good about that right now.

[Josh_B]

Let's all lynch Hephestus. I feel pretty good about that right now.

Any update to this thought given his post for today? Any bets on when we can expect another?

I have no idea. But what I do know is that this my third attempt to start a wagon. and I'm seriously questioning myself. Mala's short stint on a real wagon that almost went through has me questioning why I think she's town. Plus the fact that it was also her and MS that defended Zebulin earlier. I'm half tempted to vote NPAU in hopes that there has been bussing.

[Josh_B]

I have gotten townvibes from Josh in the beginning of the game, but that has slowly faded and I'm more leaning towards scum. I don't like how he's trying to throw the word policy lynch down. I feel like he's more using his vote as a comprised vote rather than trying to hunt for actual scum. (Idk if that makes sense) Seems like he's trying to keep out of the spotlight and go for an easier target rather than using his vote and pushing someone harder.

I'm going to stop here for now and throw a vote on Josh because my computer is about to die and I'm too lazy to plug it in before it does so.

VOTE: Josh

Yay! I'm scum for not being in the spotlight.
This is the first time that's ever been someone's reason to vote me.

Mala is now voting people in her town pile. WOOT! and OMGUS.
I haven't said anything about a policy lynch since I joined in and half the players were MIA.(Is that the time when I was or wasn't liked?)
But to just think. I was going to make a comment on how horribly town I was. I think just as many people were reading me as town as they were reading NPAU as scum.
Now I want to lynch hephastus even more, but as a compromise Mala is of serious consideration.

I've never seen town Mala so quick to unvote. When talking about how quickly the GM wagon dissipated, I don't think I need to remind anyone that she was part of the dissipation.

[Josh_B]

Gm best lynch, npau safest lynch

that unvote.

[Josh_B]

being active and making reasonable comments will do that to you.

[Josh_B]

Maybe I should have said it like this.
IF you are active and make reasonable comments, even more people will town read you.

[Josh_B]

Anyways, I like josh's point. Josh can sit in the town pile for now.

I was town when I was pointing out that NPAU had a lot of scum reads.

Which makes it SUPER hard for me to put a town label on her. And I like Mala's meta read on GM because she provided reasoning that I am thinking might have truth to it (GM avoiding the thread as scum?).


However, the fast wagon helps in knocking her toward a towner side of null than a scummier.

I like this part. Not exactly a town read.. (A convenient stance just in case a wagon forms again.)

Malakittens wrote:

She was, but I was incorrect. Along with the pace of the wagon, some of my mild scum reads jumping on it and the incorrect direction of me thinking the posts in the micro were actual posts and not mod posts. I withdrew my vote.

Which scum reads? Why aren't you voting them?

I have gotten townvibes from Josh in the beginning of the game, but that has slowly faded and I'm more leaning towards scum. I don't like how he's trying to throw the word policy lynch down. I feel like he's more using his vote as a comprised vote rather than trying to hunt for actual scum. (Idk if that makes sense) Seems like he's trying to keep out of the spotlight and go for an easier target rather than using his vote and pushing someone harder.

I'm going to stop here for now and throw a vote on Josh because my computer is about to die and I'm too lazy to plug it in before it does so.

VOTE: Josh

Oh great, now I have a vote on Heph and a good reason to find her suspicious, so I'm scum.
I still think this a contradiction and an OMGUS. I only talked about policy lynches when I signed in at the beginning of the game. Is that when she was or wasn't getting town vibes? I'm not sure what kind of compromise my vote on Huntress was, nor my vote on Zeb, nor my vote on peabody, nor my vote on Heph. I didn't vote GM, so I'm not one of the scum reads that Mala talked about jumping on the GM wagon.
Who is the harder person that she thinks I should be going for?

I'm still good with heph lynch. But this.. this is a Mala that I've never seen before.

[Josh_B]

@ mala 746.

you got me. I probably would still vote NPAU as a zero hour compromise. BBT's rebuttal concerning the number of people scum reading him makes since to me. On play alone, NPAU still appears scummy.

The Hephestus vote appears scummy.
Metal Sonic unvoting GM, yet still wanting her lynched appears really scummy.

I'm hoping that we can all move our vote there so that we can move forward with this game. We can only lynch one scum a day. Let's talk about Metal Sonic and Hephestus right now.
- Oh shit. I just realized that Hephestus is in the poptart kittie's slot, and I remembered something..

There's others that deserve better votes. One is the nyayayaa slot as he's avoiding this game.

I started the game talking to Mala about lynching one of the inactives (like Nya) because there was such a high number of inactive players at that time, but she was like "no, I don't want to policy lynch." (thinking back on it, Mala's vote was pretty stagnant on Nya for a long time even after that.)
This is enough to change my vote.

VOTE: Malakittens

[Josh_B]

Yes, but if you read my posts Josh you will realize that my scum read on Nyayayaa had merit. Nyayaya was obv posting elsewhere and fully aware this game was ongoing. (I asked the day start PMs to make sure he was aware the game started)

Your omgus read/vote on me is noted though!

You cant omgus an omgus when you omgused first. I claim being the fist one to be suspicious.
And before i moved my vote to you, i was saying that we should lynch Heph. Same slot different circumstances. I agreed that nya was lurking and i said that lynching nya was ok with me. But now its later in the game, im voting a semi-active player who appears to be scum, and youre going back to saying that im policy lynching.

If your nya read had so much merit, why are you voting me and not heph?

[Josh_B]

@ Josh: Am I right in thinking that your current scum reads are NPAU, Heph, MS, Mala and possibly Zeb/Dave?

No. Maybe. I'm think I'm ok with you thinking this.

Mala is getting sorted. Who are your scum reads?

[Josh_B]

I'm going off the idea (not fact, just an idea) that goodmorning is a town, and the wagon was bad. I looked and the only one that seemed plausible to be on it (assuming it wasn't an all-townie wagon) was NPAU. There's sheeping in there for me because Scripten did make a good organic case and I liked it so much that I followed it.

What do you think about Nya/heph?

[Josh_B]

Observations on the vote:

NPAU and hephaestus both voting GM is interesting because IIRC several people have floated hephaestus as their 2nd-3rd scummiest player. Perhaps both are scum and neither wants to move for fear of looking even more scummy?
What's up with Malakittens and Josh_B? Could be a double OMGUS with a side of BBT? IIRC (without going to the trouble to read back) I think that trio's votes have been pretty jumpy.
ucitron00 being on shinobi makes sense given the past couple of pages, but it's interesting that shinobi is the sole holdout on voting at this time.

I probably have been very jumpy. BBT moderately so. Mala not so much. The only time she moved her vote that I can think of without ISOing her, was off of Nya/heph/??? and onto the GM wagon.- and that is what's up.
I said I was suspicious of her because of it. Then she OMGUS voted me, and I OMGUS'd her back because I wanted to lynch Heph and she started saying that I was trying to policy lynch and should try to go after someone harder.
I am now overwhelmed by the number of vanity votes that I've had.

Also shinobi admitted to Ucitron being town and unvoted him. I'm pretty sure he ninja'd the VC.

[Josh_B]

Shin -- I didn't like the defense in the newbie game and I sure as hell don't like it now. T_T

At first I misread NPAU's post thought he was saying he was okay with the lynch on himself. Which felt like AtE, but reading back on it further is not what he said at all.

I'm off today so I'll prob look through the game a bit more, but deadline is close so we do need a lynch. So I'll put my vote to the NPAU wagon if needed.

It should be going on the Heph wagon. Like this...

VOTE: Hephastus

everyone's vote should be doing this.

[Josh_B]

Mala, if you are town, we should be working together to lynch someone that we both agree is scummy. How about you also get on this wagon and then we can talk about feeling stupid for not doing it earlier.

Your commitment/non commitment is disturbing. Up until the GM thing, I definitely thought you were town. Now I'm seriously starting to wonder.

You said that you jumped off the GM wagon because your scum reads were on it. With your updated Scum reads I have to ask which came first on the GM wagon
BBT
or
Malakittens

I really think that you should be voting whatever scum read you had from the GM wagon and not dicking around with this other nonsense.

[Josh_B]

She was, but I was incorrect. Along with the pace of the wagon,

some of my mild scum reads jumping on it

and the incorrect direction of me thinking the posts in the micro were actual posts and not mod posts. I withdrew my vote.

misrep debunked.

[Josh_B]

Let's talk about the order of the GM wagon
Ucitron
Malakittens
BBT
MetalSonic
Hephestus
No point acting up.

and in order of decline
Metalsonic>NPAU
Malakittens>no one.
Ucitron>NPAU
BBT>Mala
I was jumpy, defensive and overly aggressive long before you ever knew my name. But seriously let's talk about this.

[Josh_B]

Mala, so.. what your saying is if i wasnt voting heph, you would?
Even though you havn't seen my flip and you are wildly speculating on my alignment. Only you dont appear to be speculating, you just seem to be dead set against lynching one of your scum reads because I want to lynch that person.

Let's see how much you beleive what your saying

Vote: Josh_b

[Josh_B]

Hephaestus talk to me about your town reads.

[Josh_B]

Hephaestus talk to me about your town reads.

Scripten
dave is starting to give me town vibes, Zeb's replace out did as well
you, basically for being active and not scummy. self-vote is annoying as hell btw but realistically a null if not a town tell
Peabody because I like his reasoning and tone
Shinobi is town because uct is voting him

Ok give me some details about how you feel about MS, GM and Nopoint?

[Josh_B]

If you want me to put my vote to good use, You guys should be thinking more realistically.
I was hoping to hear back from Heph to dig into his case more deeply, but I realized scum was probably already out in the open.

these votes back and forth between GM and NPAU are bad. REALLY bad.

I can understand cases of NPAU {or} GM but {NOT} cases of {NPAU} and {GM}.

I'll move my vote to anyone that has made a case for NPAU and GM both being scum...

Unfortunately, it's probably too late for that, but I don't plan on lynching Town.

Here's an example

lol

the real reason is

i am going to entertain lynching from gm/npau today

But they are picking a mountain out of a molehill. Besides, if my read on npau is right, naturally his partners will try to save him. Well, partner, since gm is immobilized right now by my scum catching magic lasso

VOTE: MetalSonic

[Josh_B]

I think GM and NPAU can not be scum together.

Claims of a GM/NPAU scum team are scummy.

Why did you move your vote to GM?

[Josh_B]

I should probably read through the thread to find out who the masons are.

Can we lynch Hephastus now?

VOTE: Heaphestus.

[Josh_B]

I should probably read through the thread to find out who the masons are.

Can I just say how much I don't like this?

I don't like this. A lot.

yea, me either, and I don't really care. I still think the possiblity of a GM/NPAU scum team was completely insane.

BBT, I still haven't been off a lynch as scum. WOOT!

[Josh_B]

Being in a neighborhood has it's own utility that can be used to confer with each other over game events. It's kind of like a hydra with two votes in thread.
Well it's kind of like a hydra if you get daytalk.

It really shouldn't be claimed unless someone is getting ran up. Just like any other claim.

[Josh_B]

WOW...I really wish I could edit my posts.

Uct or GM for me today.

I think a uct and GM are bad choices. Didn't the fast wagon clear GM?

Besides what Scripten said about Uct, what's your oppinion of Uct?

[Josh_B]

Not necessarily. Josh is the type who would totally say that sort of thing as Scum.

This is mostly true. As town I speculate on the NK's, on scum I'll straight up tell you why with a few if and maybe's thrown in.

So, GoodMorning, what do you think about yesterday's lynch? You said intent to hammer, but ended up not being on the wagon. Do you think the real hammer was a scum claim?

[Josh_B]

The hammer was particularly suspect.
Hephestus still has some open questions to answer.

Same question now directed at anyone.
What do you think about yesterdays lynch?

[Josh_B]

I can't wrap my head around Josh's vote yesterday.

It was completely useless and there was no way MS was getting lynched at that point. And I don't even particularly see the point of what his case was.

After

Hmmmmmm Sonic might be Scum.

Vote:Goodmorning

Why?

Any assertion of a GoodMorning/NPAU scum team might as well be a scum claim. Or you need to come up with a sure fire explanation of bussing which even with all of the WIFOM at my disposal, I can't do.
People that jump out to me specifically as having pushed that case are MetalSonic and Hepheastus, but I'm open to anyone else that also seemed to be claiming that team.

I tried to lynch Hephestus before we were in last minute crunch time, and no one wanted to follow through with it. I made a case that I thought NPAU probably wasn't scum. The speed of the GM wagon was suspect, the speed of the de escalation was even more suspect.

I'm pretty sure everyone/almost everyone had a chance to log in during the last 24 hours. Obviously, I don't know anymore than any other townie, but NPAU wagon set off alarms and 701 actually seems townish.

[Josh_B]

Shinobi.

do you want to vote metal Sonic? I would ask him about the OMGUS but he's replacing out.

BBT. shinobi pointed out that I didn't like the lynch and made an awkward useless vote. YOu've pointed out that Davesaz didn't like the lynch but went along with it anyways.

It seems like two very opposite ends of the spectrum as far as actions go. How did you view davsaz in dp1?

[Josh_B]

I'm trying to ask questions to get the game going.
Shinobi, you would do well to try something similar rather than complain.

[Josh_B]

What I don't get is why nobody has bothered to look at who Scripten would be dangerous to. Or if you're looking, nobody is saying anything about it.

This reads as nonsense, and counter productive. Why should we be looking at a dead townie, and exactly how dangerous is he?

[Josh_B]

Wisdom replaces Metal Sonic!!!!

Hooray. Maybe.

Wisdom, I'm scum reading your slot because Metal Sonic said that both GM and NPAU were scum, dispite obvious in game conflicts between the two parties. It doesn't help that he voted, then unvoted GM, yet still wanted to lynch her. And also wasn't on the NPAU lynch even though that was one of his top scum reads.

What do you think about the game so far?

[Josh_B]

I keep coming back expecting the thread to explode but nobody looks like they're playing.

It's really disheartening. We need more people asking each other questions and scumhunting and stuff.

I can't wrap my head around Josh's vote yesterday.

It was completely useless and there was no way MS was getting lynched at that point. And I don't even particularly see the point of what his case was.

After

Hmmmmmm Sonic might be Scum.

Vote:Goodmorning

Why?

Any assertion of a GoodMorning/NPAU scum team might as well be a scum claim. Or you need to come up with a sure fire explanation of bussing which even with all of the WIFOM at my disposal, I can't do.
People that jump out to me specifically as having pushed that case are MetalSonic and Hepheastus, but I'm open to anyone else that also seemed to be claiming that team.

I tried to lynch Hephestus before we were in last minute crunch time, and no one wanted to follow through with it. I made a case that I thought NPAU probably wasn't scum. The speed of the GM wagon was suspect, the speed of the de escalation was even more suspect.

I'm pretty sure everyone/almost everyone had a chance to log in during the last 24 hours. Obviously, I don't know anymore than any other townie, but NPAU wagon set off alarms and 701 actually seems townish.

Hold up.

Back when that post was made, you never bothered to pull anyone off of the NPAU when he supposedly made a really towny post. You were fixated on shit that didyn't matter (IE how I was joking about being townread every single time I posted.) Why is it that ou didn't try to pull anyone off of the lynch when you thought he was towny?

VOTE: Josh

WHA! misrep much? This statement cannot possibly be true, when everyone else is talking about how I voted for Metal Sonic, didn't jump on the NPAU wagon, and tried to make a case about why he and Hephastus were both scum and no one listened.

Fixated is a poor term here, since that post about you being more townie when you post was off- hand, and I was in the middle of a conversation with Malakittens about her OMGUS.

It's unfortunate, but I can't make up anyone else's mind for them, and I don't have any extra votes, or vote controlling powers, so I think it's ridiculous for you to blame me for that lynch going through. When chances are, it was more likely padded with scum than not.

[Josh_B]

What I don't get is why nobody has bothered to look at who Scripten would be dangerous to. Or if you're looking, nobody is saying anything about it.

This reads as nonsense, and counter productive. Why should we be looking at a dead townie, and exactly how dangerous is he?

Who would feel threatened by Scripten's continued presence in the game? If there is anyone fitting that description, they would have motive for a NK. I thought this would be crystal clear. I have found scum in the past by paying attention to who they killed and combining that with the posting and votes. The technique might have changed the outcome of the newbie game I subbed into, if I hadn't bought a line about the only thing you can get out of this is WIFOM. Discarding information is a scum tactic.

I don't know. Did scripten ever get any votes on him or anything during the last Day?

[Josh_B]

Of course you can't. You didn't even try. You made one post at the last second because you were commenting on how townie I looked and

1. voted yourself for whatever reason.

Why is it that you insist on wasting time while a wagon is building up on your townread?

2. And it's not even like I blame you for the lynch.

I'm accusing you of trying to avoid responsibility of lynching town

3. while being useless in other areas.

I refuse to believe that you had a legitimate townread on NPAU and that you basically let him get run up until the last 24 hours,

4. when you're not going to convince shit

.

1. indicates you obviously haven't read the game.

2. So we're good then?

3. this from a guy who lurked most of D1.

4. I bet if I had a scum team, they wouldn't have left me out to dry like that.

I seriously tried to get mala to vote Hepheastus. Seriously. She wouldn't go for it.
It was obvious that Scripten was going to vote for NPAU.
Heck I think like three people claimed intent to hammer. (maybe 2)

-I feel like you are trying to say that I did something scummy, but you haven't figured out what you are trying to say that I did, or how you plan to spin it as scummy.

[Josh_B]

I said you were trying to fake town conscious.

Ok. BBT, This is kind of reaching. What causes you to think his statements were fake?

[Josh_B]

Hey ya know that feeling when you think you have something right, and it's only 50% right? It happens to me all the time in micros. I'm kind of starting to wonder if it's possible that Dave's possible mason connection could be scum buddying.

So this is a yes/no question. Dave have you ruled out the possibility of the probable connection being scum? Meaning, you definitely think that connection is a mason connection and not a scum connection. If it's a possible scum connection, telling us could help us find scum.

[Josh_B]

Ok, so Uticron is actually town, That's good to know. I probably should have read him as town when he was arguing with shinobi, but i felt like most of that argument was over playstyle and game theory.

[Josh_B]

@ Josh: In post 1038 you said that the NPAU wagon set off alarms and that 701 actually seemed townish, but looking back at 758 you said that on play alone, NPAU still appeared scummy. Was your townish read on 701 made later? If not, why not say it at the time?

I don't know. I think I may be trying to justify a reason for him being town now that I've seen his flip, or once I realized how many people were scum reading him, I tried to open my mind to the possibility that he was town which caused me to read his posts from a new perspective.

[Josh_B]

SHINOBI AND BBT- look at you two working together to push the same case on two different people. I'm having flash backs from a recent game.... BBT even the part where you asked the same question 50 billion times even though it was already answered. Have you been Metagaming recently?

If you want to do something productive with your posts, why aren't you looking at the people that voted for NPAU all willy nilly. for no reason, or reasons that didn't make sense?

Oh, I know, why don't you look at the people that were splitting the votes? Do you both really need to see GM's lynch to show that the top two wagons at dead line where shit wagons?

[Josh_B]

Widsom- I don't trust you yet. Why a peabody wagon?

[Josh_B]

A game of repeat for Wisdom
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58856
Scum walked away with a very strong victory.

Shinobi, the case is [whiney] "You didn't do enough to stop the lynch on town."
It is my actions and Dave's actions that are different. Not your actions and BBT's actions.

I mean it's clear. Nobody listened to me. (like scripten, who made a further case on NPAU being scum)
And the people that did listen didn't give a shit. (like Mala, who called me town for pointing out that NPAU could be town, but voted him anyways)

[Josh_B]

wagon and a strong townread. Which did you want me to do, contribute to a no lynch to avoid lynching neither

sure. or vote someone that you actually thought was scummy.

Making a compromise choice at deadline always hurts town. But my point wasn't about your actions. My point was about Shinobi and BBT picking two people and tunneling the shit out of them when there were more than two people who did not vote NPAU, or with suspicions that NPAU was town.

Look at Peabody. He straight said, "I think NPAU is town" and voted him in the same post.

If you look at BBT and Shinobi, they were both on the GM wagon, but neither of them seem to pushing that anymore

[Josh_B]

Look at Peabody. He straight said, "I think NPAU is town" and voted him in the same post.

So do you agree with my Peabody scumread? Earlier you asked me why I wanted to wagon him.

Also

josh, what did you think of my hephaestus townread?

I don't know about a hephaestus town read. It seems like me and Mala are the only ones considering Hephaestus as scum, but I think we're butting heads so hard on other stuff that a Hepheastus lynch probably isn't going to happen. It's true though what Mala said about Nya(the previous slot holder). Nya was posting else where and not in this game. When I started playing this game, there weren't that many active players. Mala, BBT, Goodmorning, Huntress, and Metal Sonic come to mind as being the most active.

As far as Peabody goes, he isn't the only one that voted NPAU despite thinking he was town.

[Josh_B]

Fuck Josh, do you know how stupid, baseless and not even helpful in what you just told me to do. I don't see how less than 2 days to the dead line you wanted me to switch my vote to contribute to a no lynch to avoid lynching someone who I thought was maybe town and someone who was strong town read. I have come to the conclusion that no lynching is worst than lynching someone Day 1 regardless of your "feelings" for them are.

Please tell me how no lynching day 1 would have helped the town...?

Mala, I think you just said that you voted NPAU as a policy lynch. This comes after you accusing me of wanting to PL on Hepheastus.
I really hope that you can understand why I'm suspicious of you because right now I'm looking at your post and asking myself WTF?

It's people who made comments like this one...

I'm not liking NPAU right now. I think he is my #1 lynch for today.

... but asking why people voted for NPAU that make me FoS.

I'm moving my vote to

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Josh_B]

Hephaestus's "ucitron is scum" statement was very empty. As all of his reads have been.

I just read a general discussion thread about apathy, and I'm starting to see that as an excuse more and more. It's going to be a scum buzzword soon enough.

Wisdom, I see your case on Peabody as a good start to get more information out of him. I'll decide further when he responds.

[Josh_B]

I'm going to quote myself here, because Mala, I'm thinking that this is a matter of your opinion versus my opinion and I'm thinking we should take this to general discussion. I don't know if I should start a thread on this right now, or wait until after the game. I'll probably wait until after the game, since this issue is now an active topic in an ongoing game.

I could D1 PL on a 7 page week old game. It's probably better than a last minute D1 pressure lynch.

I think the term that I'll be using in the general discussion topic for what happened with the GM/NPAU wagons is "Zero Hour Compromise Lynch"

[Josh_B]

I'd like a response from Hepheastus on this matter.

Hephaestus talk to me about your town reads.

[Josh_B]

Hephaestus's "ucitron is scum" statement was very empty. As all of his reads have been.

And? Does that make him scum?

It makes him suspicious.

I just read a general discussion thread about apathy, and I'm starting to see that as an excuse more and more. It's going to be a scum buzzword soon enough.

Apathy exists, like it or not. You have to take it into consideration. Or does it bother you that the apathy angle does not let you push your mislynch forward?

Well this looks like a loaded question if I've ever seen one. What makes you so sure it's a mislynch?

Wisdom, I see your case on Peabody as a good start to get more information out of him. I'll decide further when he responds.

So you do not have a read on him right now?

[/quote]
Probably town. He seemed to be receptive towards BBT not being scum earlier, although I don't think his reason for thinking scum BBT was all that bad. I can see that Scripten was suspicious of him at points. If he's someone that I haven't fully decided on and is skating by while town argues with themselves, I think it should be evident. [sarcasm]Maybe he's apathetic [/sarcasm]

[Josh_B]

It makes him suspicious.

No, it doesn't. Tons of townies post that way.

Ad populum makes Hepheastus townie?

Well this looks like a loaded question if I've ever seen one. What makes you so sure it's a mislynch?

The way you whined about apathy seemed to me like you were annoyed that I brought up that possibility. I don't see why you are whining about apathy instead of considering it as it being the case. Of course, it would make sense if hephaestus is just mislynch fodder to you.

How is he mislynch fodder? Is the case on him weak? This reminds me why I have a town read on Mala. Being that neither of us are aligned, and neither of us have a team assisting us on the Hephaestus lynch. And it's tough that we both have a similar opinion of Hephaestus, but we aren't agreeing with together.

Probably town. He seemed to be receptive towards BBT not being scum earlier, although I don't think his reason for thinking scum BBT was all that bad. I can see that Scripten was suspicious of him at points. If he's someone that I haven't fully decided on and is skating by while town argues with themselves, I think it should be evident. [sarcasm]Maybe he's apathetic [/sarcasm]

I don't quite understand why you're townreading him. Elaborate please.[/quote]
I'll give more of an opinion on how he responds to your questions.

Mala I bolded why I think you're town, and it's the same reason why I'm town.

[Josh_B]

Aw yes

The good news: I'm town
The bad news: I'm on vacation in Chicago still, will be back Monday night

Will wait till the SO is asleep at night to make posts, will be back regularly at work lunchtime on Tuesday

Uctriton, didn't you say you were town here? It only took you posting 70 times for me to decide if it was true.
It is true, isn't it?

[Josh_B]

What changed in the interim?

MS replaced out, and I don't expect Wisdom to be able to justify the actions of a different player. Do you even read? Wisdom and I are having a conversation about reads. It's almost like I'm making it a point to interact with the new player who is in a slot that I find scummy.

[Josh_B]

Ad populum makes Hepheastus townie?

No, it shows your argument is bullshit.

Other people doing it does not make it more acceptable- like drugs.

How is he mislynch fodder? Is the case on him weak?

I don't recall there being a case on him. So no, it's not weak, it's non-existent.

The case is that his previous slot holder Nya was posting elsewhere and not in this game(classic scum lurking)
That his votes have been empty and he has not provided much content, or scum hunted.
He has been maxing out his prod time, and was slotted to be replaced at one point.

I mean I would say ask him questions, but he really isn't around that much to have a decent conversation with.

[Josh_B]

So are you going to answer why he's town?

He said he's town. I believe him. Believing him makes me happy. Happiness is the truth.

Do you want to know who else I'm town reading?

GoodMorning
Malakittens
Davesaz
Uctriton
Peabody
Huntress

That leaves
Wisdom
Hephestus
BlueBloodedToffee
Shinobi

Which is four, and there's only three scum, this makes me sad.

GM and Mala which ones do you think I"m wrong about?

[Josh_B]

Oh god please make this wagon quick.

BBT when you do anti-town things in a game like tunnel a townie to death just because they weren't on a lynch wagon, expect to be FoS'd.
When you do it two games in a row, you're either scum or playing against your wincon.

Please take a look at this game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=250

and compare it to this one. I was 50% right in the linked game that two people pushing bad cases were scum, but to see one of those players attempting to go through the same motions again, I can only assume that the same results are expected.

If you don't want to read all of DP2, that's fine.
Just ISO Asher Kendrell and BlueBloodedToffee.
Then compare those same DP2 actions to Shinobi and BlueBloodedToffee in this game.

And if you don't want to do that, vote josh.

[Josh_B]

vote: josh

If you don't believe Uctriton, or me, that he's town, look at this OMGUS that proves it.

I cannot recall a scum OMGUSing a player for calling them town in the history of ever!
Also, I don't think shinobi came out ahead in the convo with Uctriton. I think Uctriton came out ahead. I really liked his tactic of having Shinobi make a case on him. I honestly don't think that ever happened.

[Josh_B]

Wisdom, I know that you are not a retard who can't read. Why are you dodging my answers?

I said Peabody was probably town, and I've said that I'll consider his answers to your questions as far as determining his alignment further.
Peabody hasn't answered your questions, therefore there is no reason for me to change my read on him being probably town. As far as a current read: POE, him not appearing to be suspicious, there being actually suspicious things from other players, gut.

Uctriton appears more town based on him forcing Shinobi to explain the case.

BBT has presented a case in this game that he used in a previous game, which resulted in town death.

And there plenty of uses for OMGUS votes. In this case
Me: Uctriton is town
Uctriton: OMGUS- Vote:you.
I think that if Uctriton were scum, he would be happy to have someone town read him. If he is town like he says he is, he might feel like being called town is suspicious.

[Josh_B]

PoE? So you have found the whole scumteam and you are so sure about everyone of them that it makes Peabody town?
How is he not suspicious? Even if you disregard his deadline behavior that is scummy as all hell, look at the total of his game: I only see robotic posts and no contribution. Do you see different? Do you see anything in his posts that might indicate he is town? Surely there must be something, if your gut says he is town.

OMG, I said I'd reconsider that read. What more do you expect? How do you expect to resolve this without Peabody being present?

Why? Can't scum force people to explain their cases on them?
I need to reread the 1v1 because I don't remember much of it, but I do believe Shinobi was the one trying to sort out uctriton while uctriton stood there tunneling and ignoring everything Shinobi was saying.

Scum can do whatever they want. Uctriton though is probably town. How many Ad Populum statements are you going to make?

OMGUS means: Oh my god, you suck (for voting me). It's used when x votes y for the sole reason that y voted x. It does not apply to townreads.
Uctriton might be scum seeing your wagon having potential so he decided to join it. Why not consider this possibility?
And he didn't even say anywhere that he voted you for calling him town, that's your own reasoning.

Maybe, maybe not. Explain it to Dionysus.

And seriously what is with "he says he is town so he's town"?

I said that I believe him.

I have to guess things. It won't be the first time that I've guessed wrong. But you tunneling this shit doesnt mean I'm right or wrong, it just puts me into a postion to either second guess myself, or to say I'm absolutely right and your are an idiot.
Fortunately, I know that you are not an idiot. Scum probably, but not an idiot.

I also know that our conversation has become redundant. I've guessed as much as I can guess, and explained as much of my guess's as I can. If I haven't answered your questions by now, I can't. I've reached the limits of my imagination as far as this game goes. If you like that, great, lets move on, if you don't that's on you.

Nothing has happened gamestate wise that caused me to change my mind. I'm not going to change my opinion just because you want me to without seeing further evidence. But for now, regardless of Hephaestus, Uctriton, and Peabody, I'm pretty sure that my vote is on scum, and I'm going with it.

[Josh_B]

Sometimes I am very wordy. I've highlighted the important parts.

Spoiler: response to wisdom

I have to guess things. It won't be the first time that I've guessed wrong.
-snip-
our conversation has become redundant.
-snip-
I'm pretty sure that my vote is on scum, and I'm going with it.

[Josh_B]

BBT,
The correlation that I'm making to the Micro is that you claimed I had a town read on him and

"didn't do enough to stop the lynch"

In this game you have said that Dave also

"didn't do enough to stop the lynch"

I was referring to this earlier, but my question directly to you is What was your motivation for pushing this issue with Dave as opposed to Peabody or anyone else?

It seems very selective.

[Josh_B]

h Mala, it felt like he was going to sheep me onto Mala, hence why he asked what I thought of Mala's reads. If I had stayed on Mala, I strongly suspect Dave would have followed.

But the case was shitty the last time you pushed it, and lynched town. What makes it different here?

[Josh_B]

me it must mean you've reached a conclusion, yes?

You're a good player. I have respect for your style. After this is all over, I hope that you can give me some tips on my play.

[Josh_B]

give me a sec. I'm writing.

[Josh_B]

I had to take a break from this game. It was really getting to me.

Spoiler: Because Wisdom

I read a few Wisdom games because this is the first time that I've ever interacted with him in a one on one situation and I wanted to understand more who I'm talking to. We were in a game together once, but I was dead when he replaced in. Do you remember that Wisdom? Mala was there and Goodmorning was there too. If you hadn't replaced in and did nothing but lurked, I think Satrunine could have won the game. (reference for others) I had a really strong town read on her and defended her till my death, but Wisdom was pretty obvious due to his lack of activity and "apathy".

But speaking of lurkers, I see that pretty much everyone has had a chance to log in and make a game related comment about the game except... hepheastus. That prod dodging dude. We're lucky if we get a post out of him every three days and even more lucky if we get content. For the amount of non-involvment he's had in this game, it concerns me that you Wisdom would give him a town read. From what I've read, you aren't a big fan of lurkers.

From my own perspective, I can understand an idea like, "I have really strong suspicions of X,Y,Z so W is probably town." You have strong suspicions right? GoodMorning, Peabody, and Uctriton? I have them as Town, Probably Town, and Town. But I don't find you're early suspicion of them all that suspicious. You replaced in and got to read all of the pages at once, which is a much different experience than being part of the game from Day1. You know how that works right? In Strange Idea Penguin replace in and nailed the scum team, but you had such a hard scum read on his slot that you dismissed everything that he said. Which leads me to my next point.

Magic. 12 glasses of wine all laid out in front of me, like I'm Indiana Jones and I have to try to figure out which 3 are poisoned based on how they look on the surface. You know how this game works: Lots and Lots of guessing and hoping that the one you choose is the right one. If everyone already knew who was scum and who wasn't, there would never be any mislynches and this game wouldn't exist. Speaking of Guessing...

I really hope that Mala and Goodmorning are right on your alignment, and that I'm right on theirs. They have a lot more experience with you, and I find that it's better to trust players the players that have the most experience together. On my own, I think that you are scum. It's too easy to break apart somebody else's opinions based on the facts that: town opinions are just guessing, every town player has guessed wrong at least once, and second guessing yourself happens often. Or as town, you get so caught up in yourself that reads become "because I said so" like this...

Well I'll make sure you get zero support then. You're not touching my townreads.

Take our conversation about Uctriton for example. It's not that I don't have an opinion on why he is town. Based on the 1v1 with Shinobi, I thought he came out ahead. His push to make Shinobi give his case felt right to me. But the basis of that read is... it feels right, and it's what I think- nothing more, nothing less.

You aren't the only person I have to respond to though, so what's your read on me?
/page break

fake pedit: I swear I keep telling myself that I'm not going to keep making these ridiculous walls, but I keep doing it anyways.

[Josh_B]

josh scum (attempting to buddy me for the sake of buddying me; his town reads are completely unfounded and is saying my town read is based on an omgus (even though the omgus took place waaaaaaay after he said i was town) and is trying to use a joke replace in post as actual evidence, which is ******* retarded and deserves a blacklist if he flips town in this game)

Eat a

dick

pie. I don't need to buddy your sorry lurksack, lackidaisical, intermitant playing horribleness. I just need to figure out if your town. I've come to the conclusion that are, how the fuck does that deserve a blacklist?
If you're town, and I guessed right, Why

the fuck

are you on my case about it? Get in the town bloc and help win the game.

[condescension]So, it was a joke post. Meaning that it wasn't true and you're telling me it wasn't true, and your saying that I should be blacklisted for thinking that it was true. [/condescension] [angry shouting] That's "******* retarded" [/angry shouting]

erghh. I hope that we can talk about this calmly because..

this

might be the dumbest thing i've ever read
and

i've

read twilight

[Josh_B]

Shin how the fuck is that a scumclaim

+1

[Josh_B]

Dunno about that one, but

your response to me was a scumclaim

. More on why in a bit because I'm phoneposting right now.

In the meanwhile, give me your opinion on peabody's recent posts like I asked you to.

Explain this more, actually let Shinobi explain it. He's the one that started it.

[Josh_B]

-snip-

I don't like BBT's push on Dave either, so we're on the same page with that-
Peabody, why did you vote for NPAU?
I also liked Dave's response, still on the same page.
I think BBT pointed out a townslip, not a scumslip. I'm null on that pending future interactions/non interactions.
This question "Wait... BBT, is dave town?" seems like natural thought progression. Second guessing himself to the means of "am I assigning feelings to BBT that aren't true?"

I didn't like Josh's hop onto MS near the end of deadline. I didn't like his self-vote.

What do you think I should have done? It's obvious that we took different actions. I moved my vote to someone that I thought was scum.

me voting myself was only half of the situation

-What do you think of Mala voting me after calling me town, instead of her claimed scum reads? What do you think of Mala's not wanting to vote her scum read, because I was voting it?

These are the questions I was thinking about when I voted myself to L-5

What do you think about Mala moving her vote to the wagon rather than to her scum reads. What do you think about Mala's support of the two wagons?

I'm letting emotions into this read.
-snip-
I find my playstyle this game is very reactionary than proactive.

Self evaluation is town tell.

Over all Peabody appears to be reading and catching up regularly (for him). All of his posts seem to flow as though he's typing and thinking at the same time. A lot of his thought's I agree with, and nothing that he has said feels contrived or like he's trying to invent reasons for pushing one way or the other. And..

(the thing I was looking for in this post, which I don't feel had happened previously)

his response to being suspected seems fair and even: no over reaction, or hyperfocus. He actually points out things that he likes from the person that is scum reading him.

My opinion of Peabody remains the same, and further solidified. TOWN.

[Josh_B]

I don't know. I think I may be trying to justify a reason for him being town now that I've seen his flip, or once I realized how many people were scum reading him, I tried to open my mind to the possibility that he was town which caused me to read his posts from a new perspective.

But you were still reading him as scummy after you posted about how many people were scumreading him so I guess it must be the former. Except that you were townreading him

before

the flip; so that doesn't make sense.

I don't really know how to explain it. NPAU was a Schrodinger's Cat.
Big Picture:Not Scum
Little Picture: Scum but second guessing myself according to the big picture.
Post Hoc - Oh look he was town, and I was right to second guess myself on thinking he was scum Yay

But I have a question to ask you. What's your read on Mala? I know that you've responded to some of her questions, but you really haven't presented any of your own to her.

[Josh_B]

.

[/gloves]

I swear to god I hope you are scum this game.
[the shortened "because wisdom" wall]
You're reads are different than mine, and I can give you a slight pass on that because you replaced in, but my opinion is that they are all wrong.

Mala and GM both seem to think you're town. I'm town and think that both of them are town. If you're town, I think one of them has tricked me.

You are tunnely dude regardless of alignment. But you're motivations are crap this game.

If I can't get support to lynch you today, I'm pretty sure town is going to lose.

[Josh_B]

josh, what did you think of my hephaestus townread?

All that remains is to find the third one. PoE currently says hephaestus, but both

Peabody and Josh voting him on D1 throws me off.

Though, it was safe to do so at that point in time given the large npiau and goodmorning wagons.

This. does not Follow. It doesn't follow anything that has happened in the game. It doesn't follow anything that you've said previously. It doesn't make sense. it throws you off because the snake oil that you're peddling is worthless and full of garbage.

p.edit. Oh nice to see you there BBT.

[Josh_B]

Nice to see you to Josh.

You lied to me. I'm hurt.

LOL. I haven't lied this game at all.

[Josh_B]

What does your and Peabody's D1 vote on hephaestus have to do with 1288?

I think the point you wanted to make was "didn't you say hephaestus is town? Why are you now considering him as the third scum?". The answer to that is that he's my weakest townread which I was doubting anyway

due to his failing to participate in the game like it seemed he wanted to do in the beginning of D2

. My other scumreads became more town in the meanwhile, so that makes him a quite plausible third scum.

Is that your case against Peabody or is that your case against Hephaestus?

[Josh_B]

You lied in your first post this game ^^

pedit: That's not really a case, but it's in regard to hephaestus

Show me where I lied.
I've been trying to get Hephaestus votes all game if you are going to say I'm scum, IT'S NEVER GOING TO MAKE SENSE THAT THE ONE PERSON I'VE CALLED SCUM ALL GAME IS ON MY TEAM.

Get my town flip, and I'll show you where I haven't

[Josh_B]

I've been trying to get Hephaestus votes all game if you are going to say I'm scum, IT'S NEVER GOING TO MAKE SENSE THAT THE ONE PERSON I'VE CALLED SCUM ALL GAME IS ON MY TEAM.

Yeah, because scum never bus. That's the same argument you made when you supported that npiau can't possibly be scum with goodmorning because he voted her.

Noope.

Even that was true. I'll just keep saying true things.

[Josh_B]

hephaestus as a policy lynch.

That's a mis-characterization. Mala accused me of it being a policy lynch. It's not something that I said. You and I actually had a conversation about it, and you told me that all things that I found scummy were actually null.
IIRC I kept telling you that your defense of Hephaestus was ad populum.

So you defended him as town, and now you are suddenly saying he's scum. He hasn't really posted anything since we started talking about it except a prod dodge.

[Josh_B]

It doesn't matter if you said it. The reasons you wanted to lynch him for were policy material. Therefore it was safe to push him.

The real point is that you are

calling me scum

and

agreeing with who I think is scum at the same time.

[Josh_B]

[Josh_B]

Wonder if I'll find you bussing in your past scum games. That'd be fun.

Oh you will find bussing in my scum games. Do you want links?
One time Who got an N0 cop guilty on me and my two partners led the wagon.
One time I replaced into a game where almost all of the Town knew the whole scum team, so I tried to start arguments with my two partners.

Do you want me to go on?

[Josh_B]

Aaand here we go.

In this post of Micro 337, Josh-scum votes his partner and calls him scum for the rest of the game.

See BBT? That's how you catch lying scumbutts using meta.

Is that one of your favorites? the double bussing one?

[Josh_B]

Which means you're perfectly aware that scum can and do bus.

And despite that you act like it's

forbidden

unlikely due to circumstances

to suspect both you and hephaestus because you've been pushing him, or that it was

forbidden

unlikely due to circumstances

to consider npiau and goodmorning a scumteam.

Fix'd for truth.

[Josh_B]

Oh. Looking at the vote count and who is on the wagon, I need to do serious re-evaluation of my townreads if Josh is town.

You should start now.

[Josh_B]

Well, I'm at L-1.

I'm pretty all of the scum is already on the wagon. But with only 3 scum, it means 2 towns have already voted for me.
Clearly this means I've lost the argument with wisdom to a marginal degree, or it just means that scum have upvoted the wagon.

Unless someone wants to do something else. I've giving a 96 hour intent to hammer if I stay at L-1. It is obvious that my Role PM is needed for certain people to move forward.
And I probably won't spam the thread with anything until closer to that time.

[Josh_B]

Vanilla.

[Josh_B]

Oh jeeze. Now it's my turn to sit back and throw stones while someone else does all the work, shinobi style.

Watching Wisdom question Shinobi is like watching my 5 year old dig out icecream with a plastic spoon. But hey look, a clear and clever contradiction.

You keep dictating what I should/shouldn't be doing and it's ridiculous.

Reminds me of a time not so long ago at the beginning of this DP. When a certain somebody was upset that somebody else didn't do enough to stop a wagon.

I support a Shinobi lynch

[Josh_B]

But if Josh is town, why did Wisdom unvote? Did he think his work was done? Josh's lynch would be pushed through now and he could absolve himself of any responsibility by jumping off. I don't know. This is where I really need input.

A Josh town flip would look really bad for him. Suspicious Josh gives him more town credit.

[Josh_B]

I've never cared about that. I'd argue you were a terrible townie (which you kinda are, if you are town, but more on that at endgame) and move on.

Speaking of terrible townie, I just /in'd for a game with Beck. If you and BlueBloodedToffee sign up, maybe we can get the mod to change the name of the game to HedgeHog mafia and get a memorable moment for "The one where everyone tunneled the crap out of each other." Or I may just /in to mod my own invitation only game for tunnelers only and call it a headache.

[Josh_B]

Not voting(5):Malakittens, hephaestus, gooodmorning, Huntress

I don't want to pressure anyone into making a decision, but this vote count looks like we're in mylo.

[Josh_B]

Except this isn't what I accused you of.

Does that change the part about dictating what other people should do?

[Josh_B]

Maybe I should be more clear about the connection that I'm making and how it is a contradiction

Shinobi dictates that Josh should have taken an action retroactively
Wisdom dictates that Shinobi should have a flexible read on UcT.

You know what. I'm actually seeing a pattern here of Wisdom jumping around trying to get everyone to change their reads.
But Shinobi, I do want you to know that Mala has given her reads semi recently. So I'm not sure what you are asking for from her.
I kind feel silly asking for her, but I'm curious and I'm not sure if she's going to ask you herself.

[Josh_B]

you said I was a bad choice for a lynch. I

Not sure what you are talking about here.

[Josh_B]

WOW...I really wish I could edit my posts.

Uct or GM for me today.

I think a uct and GM are bad choices. Didn't the fast wagon clear GM?

Besides what Scripten said about Uct, what's your oppinion of Uct?

Oh yea, I was scum hunting BBT. What do you think about his D2 choices?

[Josh_B]

Josh, you said somewhere that BBT and Shinobi pushing similar cases on different people likely makes them scum? Can you explain this again?

[Long Version]
In a previous game two players made similar cases against two towns which resulted in a town getting lynched.
One of those players was BBT. The player that got lynched was me.
Only one of the players was actually mafia in that game but the case was clearly anti-town.

To see BBT pushing the dang near the same case again even though he knew it was anti-town gives me a reason to believe that BBT is a Mafitoso.
To see the complete reenactment of the previous game, Two People pushing anti-town cases for dang near the same reason as the previous cases makes me think that Both BBT and Shinobi are scum.

If I went with the results from the last game, there's a 50/50 shot of either of them being scum. However, in this game which includes a player from the previous game pushing one side of the case, the likelyhood of the second player to be scum is increased exponentially.

[Short Version]
BBT knows that the case he pushed against Dave is anti town, therefore BBT is anti-town, and actually scum.
Shinobi participated in the Anti-town case as it appeared in BBT's previous game.
Being that BBT is part of both games, there is a greater likelyhood of the case being pre-planned.

[Josh_B]

If Shinobi is going down first, I'm all for it.

This is L-2.

VOTE: Shinobi

[Josh_B]

I agree anti-town and scum are not always the same thing. The scum factor, falls under the "fool me once" adage.

[Josh_B]

D2 choices idk ill read it later

Uctriton, I think I'm going to untown you. BBT said that his choices for lynching were you or GM. If there's a question that you want to ask me about, surely you know the context and didn't just ISO me in hopes of picking out random things that you could say are suspect.

[Josh_B]

{this post was deleted by ninjas}

[Josh_B]

GM because I thought she was scum D1 and her play D2 hasn't changed my mind.

My top 3 lynches for today would be Wisdom, Josh or Pea.

Soo.. Which one of these are you going to call a policy lynch?

[Josh_B]

Policy lynch?

Really?

You must be confused. I only lynch scum.

Then why are there 4 on your list? Open set-up. If you think GM is scum, but you want to lynch 3 other people. Do the math.
You're flailing.

[Josh_B]

Hooray, there's actually a player in the Heph slot.

Mala, I need help . I can't get my head around the hephestus situation. DP1 it was completely ignored. Recently it seems to have gotten some support, at least in name.
Would you say that Heph has been ignored townie, or ignored scum?

I don't recall either of us being attacked for scum reading him. But there wasn't any support for it either.

[Josh_B]

do you really not understand what I'm saying? The case previously resulted in a town lynch. making it anti-town.

Pushing an anti-town case a second time is scummy.

[Josh_B]

If you want to do something productive with your posts, why aren't you looking at the people that voted for NPAU all willy nilly. for no reason, or reasons that didn't make sense?

What do you think about my previous post Josh with this in mind.

Finally!


1849-1232= 617 post later/ An awfully convenient time to suddenly say I did some thing reasonable this game.
Don't you think I've had the posts you just quoted in mind since last week when I wrote that comment while I was saying that you and Shinobi were both pushing horrible cases? (I only bring that up because it was included in 1232). f

[Josh_B]

You're scum-reading Wisdom?

Somebody please give BBT a copy of the game.

Are you making jokes? There's a lot of jokes going on in this game.
GM made a particularly ironic joke earlier. I'm hoping that I'm not the only one that got it.

Despite my own personal feelings towards Widsom, I am much more confident in scum Shinobi. And I'm also of the opinion scum BBT. Wait one moment while I introduce a very controversial BBT slip...

[Josh_B]

Also, I'm willing to sheep almost anyone onto almost any wagon.

I won't sheep Wisdom or Pea.

I might sheep GM or Josh.

I won't vote Huntress.

My vote is yours when you need it.

Go!

Uct and NPAU may be good wagons also. These are based on reading Scripten's ISO now that he be dead.

WOW...I really wish I could edit my posts.

Uct or GM for me today.

You (Uct) was from Scripten's ISO I believe.

GM because I thought she was scum D1 and her play D2 hasn't changed my mind.

This was a long, long time ago though.

My top 3 lynches for today would be Wisdom,

Josh

or Pea.

I feel comfortable that you're town, Uct.

[Josh_B]

I have pointed out somebody who had 'silly' reasons for voting NPAU and you claim to have already seen this/had this in mind and you doing nothing to chase it up. This doesn't make sense. If you saw it, and wasn't happy with it, why didn't you mention it?

I swear you need to read this game.

Wisdom, I'm scum reading your slot because Metal Sonic said that both GM and NPAU were scum, dispite obvious in game conflicts between the two parties. It doesn't help that he voted, then unvoted GM, yet still wanted to lynch her. And also wasn't on the NPAU lynch even though that was one of his top scum reads.

What do you think about the game so far?

Remember that time when Wisdom replaced in and Josh was like "hey wisdom, welcome to the game, I'm scum reading you." But then it started a wagon on Josh, and then Josh went to L-1 and he claimed intent to hammer himself. And your were all like "yea josh is scum and his little cat too." but then you said that you would sheep Goodmorning and Josh, because Wisdom put a scum read on Shinobi. And you said that Wisdom and josh were bussing. But you forgot about the argument between Wisdom and Me, and tried to get me to scum read Wisdom, but I told you that I was already doing that before it was the cool thing to do, and you made a lot of posts defending shinobi and he made a lot of posts defending you and you both were flailing over people calling you scum even though there were only 2/3 of the number of players that it takes to lynch on both of your wagons combined? Well all of that happened in this game...
So it's my intent to lynch you first, or Shinobi first. I don't think it matters.

Oh it makes me wonder. There was a quick wagon on Josh, but there isn't a quick wagon on either BBT or Shinobi, and neither of them are even at L-1 but they seem like they're freaking out. Shinobi especially. I think he has more than trippled his D1 post count.

I get the feeling you're not reading.

[Josh_B]

Wisdom, do you think you will be lynched next after I flip town?

I swear this question was already answered.

Has it been 4 days since I went to L-1? It has. I'm just going to start trolling and pretend like people who haven't decided yet are going to listen, or I might start appealing to my town reads to get this game concluded. Maybe both.

[Josh_B]

Shinobi

(3): Wisdom, davesaz, Josh_B
Josh_B(3):

Shinobi, ucitron00, BlueBloodedToffee

ucitron00

(2): Malakittens, Huntress

BlueBloodedToffee

(2): goodmorning, Peabody

Have you considered this vote count? It's a game solved vote count.

Mala, If I jumped over to your wagon would you be ok with that? We've had some issues with that before.

The more I think about Ucitron, the more I'm thinking the whole blacklist thing was just a simple attack on my credibility. My brain keeps going occam's razor to solution that Uctriton said that because, I was scum reading townWisdom, and town reading ScumUcitron. I'm thinking that the statement came from someone that preconceptually knew how much of an idiot I was being, and was in the position with the knowledge to make such a statement like that.

I just don't want to be bouncing my vote around like an idiot. I'd rather that you and Huntress moved your votes to BBT, Shinobi. That would be Tits.

[Josh_B]

You there's just some things that Shinobi has said that are really off base. He keeps saying that I'm making up reads.

I never said I was making up reads. I said I was guessing.

Will everyone in the crowd please raise your hand if you are not the mod and already know who town and scum are? It would be very helpful in solving the game if you would just go ahead and do that.

The only thing that I can think of right now that would justify the kind of assurance that BBT and Shinobi have towards each other's alignment is an un CC'd Mason Claim. But I don't really see that happening.

Shinobi asked me to claim when I was L-1. A mason wouldn't need a claim. If you aren't a mason, you're either VT or Scum. And I would suppose that either are fair game so long as the Masons make it to endgame.

I feel like BBT is acting like he's already lynched. But the problem is that he's asking Wisdom what he's going to do, when Wisdom's vote isn't even on him. BBT isn't even close to being lynched. Shinobi isn't even close to being lynched. But they're crawling all over each other to say that the other one is town. If they are the masons, they might as well claim already. It's obvious where the connection are at this point.

[Josh_B]

ninja'd

d you be willing to move your vote to uct?

My next question was going to be-
Huntress, Why the heck is your vote over there when....

How is that scummy of Shinobi, huntress?

Because his post gave a false impression of the situation.

you have a scum read on Shinobi and it has the most support right now. This post that I'm quoting is a pretty solid assesment of Shinobi's play. I think I made a comment regarding the same thing here...

Spoiler: Reference post

Of course you can't. You didn't even try. You made one post at the last second because you were commenting on how townie I looked and

1. voted yourself for whatever reason.

Why is it that you insist on wasting time while a wagon is building up on your townread?

2. And it's not even like I blame you for the lynch.

I'm accusing you of trying to avoid responsibility of lynching town

3. while being useless in other areas.

I refuse to believe that you had a legitimate townread on NPAU and that you basically let him get run up until the last 24 hours,

4. when you're not going to convince shit

.

1. indicates you obviously haven't read the game.

2. So we're good then?

3. this from a guy who lurked most of D1.

4. I bet if I had a scum team, they wouldn't have left me out to dry like that.

I seriously tried to get mala to vote Hepheastus. Seriously. She wouldn't go for it.
It was obvious that Scripten was going to vote for NPAU.
Heck I think like three people claimed intent to hammer. (maybe 2)

-I feel like you are trying to say that I did something scummy, but you haven't figured out what you are trying to say that I did, or how you plan to spin it as scummy.

Are you saying that you think Shinobi and uct are scum together?

It's certainly an avenue that I'm considering. I could go with an off chance of Peabody, but his effort (regardless of GM's sig) shows that he's periodically wasting his life to catch up, and his questions seem to be self discovered based on the information he has at the time. And he doesn't appear to be derp sheeping anyone.

Uct was certainly all about getting other people to comment on his little back and forth with Shinobi like it was super important. heck me and Wisdom had a more drawn out conversation than two, and I don't give a rat's behind what anyone else thinks about it beyond me attempting to draw my own conclusion on Wisdom.

Heck I don't think I've seen anyone go ape shit to get reactions from the interactions that me and Mala had.

[Josh_B]

I'm acting like I've already been lynched because I have lost interest again. The days are too long and I feel like even when I do post I'm talking to myself anyway. So I'll let scum lead town down the merry path we're going on until people start to see what's happening and re-evaluate their reads.

Wisdom? You don't like Widsom? You were certainly all buddy/buddy with him and throwing out associatives when he was pushing my lynch. -A wagon that you're still on by the way- yet you're asking me why I'm on a wagon with Wisdom.

Heck if you really thought Wisdom was scum, that unvote should have came a long time ago. And now that I've told you, I won't even respect it if you unvote me. You've had over a week to think about it.

And now that you've confessed that you aren't masons with Shinobi, I don't think there's any other path than to see BeastCharizard show us your flip.

[Josh_B]

Nero is on vla till he feels better

thanks vezok.

[Josh_B]

Oh god this game is driving me CRAZY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcRNQIaJEQ

Nero, I just need to know if you and Wisdom are masons to help me decide who I want to lynch. No catch up is necessary.

I think Mala said that your slot is scummy, because everyone in it so far has lurked their way up to this point.

I feel like I have some decent reads on most of the slots, but unfortunately this whole mason thing is throwing me off. It's like multiball, only one team is town, and the town team is acting just as bad as the scum team.

BBT, if you don't understand this post, YES I am asking for the masons to claim. I want to notch them off my FoS list, so I can move forward here.

[Josh_B]

What if said that prior to you and shinobi being big jerks to me when Wisdom was pushing my wagon, my top scum reads were Heph, Uct, and Wisdom.

I find it highly notable that Nero has confirmed Wisdom as town, and Wisdom has confirmed Nero as town with out prompting.
Wisdom meta says that he doesn't like lurkers, so calling Heph town means he read it in his role PM.
Nero obviously hasn't read the game so him calling Wisdom town means that he must have read it in his role PM also.

[Josh_B]

All by his lonesome

[Josh_B]

You cant omgus an omgus when you omgused first. I claim being the fist one to be suspicious.

[Josh_B]

True story.
Let's try to work out our scum reads instead of arguing for no reason about nothing.

[Josh_B]

I have Mala, GM, and Davesaz as town.
Peabody is town, but I'm less sure.

That leaves BBT and Shinobi claiming to know that each other is town, but claiming to not be masons.
And that Leaves
Wisdom/MS and Nero/heph claiming that each other is town.

I'm definitely thinking that one group is scum. Are they scum or are they masons? or are neither of them scum, and neither of them masons.
It's like it's multiball only one team is town and one team is scum.

[Josh_B]

#missing my point.

See: Wisdom comments on a lurker
See: Nero comments before reading the game.

Re: Wisdom's comments on Huntress.

[Josh_B]

You're boring. You'll sheep me on Peabody eventually, so why delay it?

[Josh_B]

@mala. I can't tell the difference between hiding scum and hiding masons. They both have the same informed minority features. I'd say this game is like multiball, but one of the scum teams win with the town.

[Josh_B]

What is with the groups of dinguses trying to kill me for next to nothing this game.

I don't get it.

@Mala: I stopped pretending I knew what was going on and I'm looking for someone to sheep. You look sheepable.

You've had like 3 votes on you MAX. I think you're over exaggerating.

[Josh_B]

Well, I hated the lynch choices. I would have rather it have been on heph.

This 's me. Where were you when I was trying to lynch Heph? Oh, I remember. You were complaining that I self voted.

[Josh_B]

Dave start reading around Page 63
Pg 65 is particularly interesting because it has like three vote changes from BBT. Ever the while BBT is defending Shinobi.

GM because I thought she was scum D1 and her play D2 hasn't changed my mind.

This was a long, long time ago though.

My top 3 lynches for today would be Wisdom, Josh or Pea.

One of the p65 vote changes was to Heph. (not on this list of scum)

I guess he doesn't directly call Shinobi town, but the way he calls Shinobi "maybe scum," flips his town read on Wisdom, continuously asks Wisdom to prove why Shinobi is scum(even though Wisdom stated it directly), and votes every one else and their brother makes me think that BBT is hard defending a scum buddy.
Even...

Josh can you explain why you're joining a wagon that one of your scum-reads is pushing.

I realise that you said 'Shinobi is scummier than Wisdom' but this doesn't really excuse you joining a wagon your scum-read is leading.

...shows how he is still trying to defend Shinobi. Shinobi calling him town in reverse is extremely suspect to me. At minimum this is some hard buddying. I'm going to quote myself from a previous game when a similar thing happened.
Subject: Mini 1561: Jesus Christ Mafia (Game Over!)

My first duty of this DP is to post an Apology to Kat, here it Goes:

Good Night dear Kat. I hope you accept this as an apology, or a reminder to not be duped by an over buddying scum player. I'm taking it as the latter.

[Josh_B]

After a re read. the connections between MS/Wisdom and Heph/Nero is not as strong as I thought it was. I think it just stuck out to me because I spent days arguing with Wisdom over why I thought Heph was scum.
Dammit, Wisdom really got into my head.

[Josh_B]

I'm going to consolidate my vote to BBT. I think I've made my case pretty clear.

VOTE: BBT

MOD: Can you change the name of this game to "Making Replacements and Enemies" instead of the alternate suggestion you proposed earlier?

I may as well.

[Josh_B]

Ahh, you'll be thinking about me? That's sweet.

[Josh_B]

You turned from wagoning with him and pushing for a Josh lynch with him to hard-scum reading Wisdom. You were very vocal about getting someone on Josh's wagon at first as Wisdom led the charge.

How can I believe you hard scumread Wisdom when he changed his mind?

He was probably the most townie player in the game. I just couldn't believe it because how blatantly townie Wisdom was.

Agree with this

May not agree with this

-still think lynching BBT is gonna be the right way to go here.

Nero, do you think I'm being selfish?

[Josh_B]

I really want to lynch Josh.

We can still make it happen. Idk why he's off nearly everyone's scumlists because he's clearly making shit up as he goes.

It's funny when you post- [sarcasm]I don't know why everyone is scum reading Shinobi, he clearly has a pre-determined agenda, and he's ignoring things that are going on in the game, so that he can put a negative spin on certain events of his choosing.[/sarcasm]

[Josh_B]

Not really but why are you against a shinobi lynch?

I'm not against a shinobi lynch. Are you against a BBT lynch?

[Josh_B]

Actually I'm pretty sure that's not even a sentence.

It is a sentence, but I think I put an extra comma in it that doesn't belong. Thanks for pointing it out for me. I, like, commas, so, much, that, I, forget, when, to stop, using them; Google translate let's me put them where ever I want.

[Josh_B]

Well for a start, you don't know him to be scum.
.

and to answer your question, NLes happen when hammer votes are left in the hands of inactive players.

Such..Hypocrisy in these two posts.

Why aren't more people voting here?

[Josh_B]

As I recall BBT, you were pretty uspset that I voted Shinobi. after I said that I had a scum read on MS/wisdom,

Untriton is a lurker.

[Josh_B]

Hmm. there was already plenty of information in the DP that implied that Peabody was town.

Dave, you really let me down. Why the switch?

[Josh_B]

I'm willing to wait a little while longer.

What's your gut say right now?

I'm sorry.

What are you doing?

He was about to bus. It looks like stalling.

[Josh_B]

I just can't understand why you guys went after Peabody. Tell me about it in end game, Ok?

[Josh_B]

In the DP? Double post? Day phase?

Day Phase. It's a trend that hasn't picked up yet.

[Josh_B]

guys ffs what are we waiting for

There havent been more obvious scum in the universe than these two

[Josh_B]

VOTE: BBT

followed by
UCT
and
Shinobi

If we could just go a head and do that, it would be great.

[Josh_B]

BBT, Vote UCT instead.

[Josh_B]

VOTE: Uctriton

[Josh_B]

UCT that was a dumb town move. I really wish you would have started today voting BBT. What made you decide to FoS him in your death?

After the Peabody Lynch, what made you think that Huntress was scum?

That Peabody hammer was pretty scummy. Why didn't you lynch BBT when you had the chance?

[Josh_B]

BBT? a shitty mason? No wonder scum has been slipping away. You suck. Also I'm not sure why you voted UCT. That seemed pretty scummy.

VOTE: Aegor

That's a lynch I'm willing to stake the game on.