Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[uctriton00]

Aw yes

The good news: I'm town
The bad news: I'm on vacation in Chicago still, will be back Monday night

Will wait till the SO is asleep at night to make posts, will be back regularly at work lunchtime on Tuesday

[uctriton00]

Back

Zeb (but he's replaced) is town. He saw the partner "slip" (which in my opinion is not a scum slip, but a slip of trying to be funny in his post style) from Metal. In my opinion, that was an attempt at a scum hunt.
Mala's attempt at trying to meta someone well enough (I think Mala goes into meta during the past few pages) is enough of a town read for me.
Toffee is also town. There was a part where he was into it against Metal Sonic, but I've seen enough town v town arguments, to where you notice how they break down, because two townies realize they're butting heads with each other.

Shinobi's reactions to Toffee are scummy. Especially hist post 70 (sorry I don't have time to do linking ATM, I just got back and I need to get to bed soon).

I have a read on Metal Sonic, but I need to ask goodmorning something because I don't want to influence what she says:
goodmorning, what is your read on Metal Sonic? As in, what is your reading of him right now at this point in the game (town/scum, smart/annoying, clever/daft, etc).

[uctriton00]

Can you explain that town read on me please because it does not make sense.

Same as I said before, I think it's genuine scumhunting when you spend time trying to figure out someone's alignment using meta with them in the past. In general, I take effort put into the game to be more townie than scummy (not that it's set in stone, as goodmorning wishes to appeal to everyone), and I'm working off of that.

Does it worry you that I give you a town read? Am I possibly buddying you?

[uctriton00]

TBH the sites where I've played before almost never used that role and therefore I'm not used to thinking about it.

Do you consider yourself a veteran of Mafia and general?

[uctriton00]

hephaestus what concerns you about Josh? You pinged him in 463

Hmm, Josh why are you voting Peabody?

There's often a distinction in the difference between town and scum asking questions, and I want to know your motivation behind it. In your ISO, this random prod to Josh pops up.

[uctriton00]

davesaz, question still out there for you: what is your experience level with Mafia? I need to ask you a few things, depending on this.

[uctriton00]

I don't hate that reply.

[uctriton00]

davesaz is town, as is metal sonic.

heph is anti-town, but still town.

goodmorning is still a good vote (i have a weird gut that says town goodmorning would be a lot less brash and more helpful other than saying I'm trying, but for the life of me I can't find which game/s we shared for evidence), and plus there's confirmation bias from voting MS.

[uctriton00]

uctriton00: Why do you read Heph as town?

Meta.

Unflattering meta, but meta. When he's vanilla townie, he is like, incredibly unhelpful. But when he's scum, he actually tries much harder.

[uctriton00]

Case on NPAU

Jumpy vote hopping (All of his votes so far have apparently been serious, as per (105)): (33) (105) (224) (320) (439)

Finds MS unlikely to be scum, (224) but, despite MS's playstyle not changing, he considers him scum by (521). Yet, he barely pushes at MS, which is a marked change from his other accusations. I also did not notice him voting MS. Considering how much his votes have jumped around, this is inconsistent, especially when he jumps onto GM in (634). After all, if he was changing his playstyle because it made him look scummy, he should have stopped vote-hopping by that time. (If he was town, stopping scummy behavior would have made sense. Even if it cast suspicion on him, it would ultimately make the game clearer for the town. Scum thrive in confusion.)

There's some scummy wording and opportunistic attacks in those posts, too.

I also find it interesting just how fast the NPAU wagon broke up and how fast the GM wagon grew at the same time. I'll go back and see where votes changed from one wagon to the other and check if my thoughts match up.

This is a good enough post to make Scripten town if NPAU was lynched and flipped scum today.

[uctriton00]

Of the 4 on it, as of the previous VC, the only one that stands out to me is NPAU

[uctriton00]

i am "vi" reading hephaestus and am town reading BBT, I don't think they're the scum.

NPAU put it on L-1, and that's a gut shot bet that scum can get away with that. (There's no science to prove that D1 L-1 is a scum spot, although someone like Wake can try to calculate that out for us one day, cause I'd be interested in that stat as well).

And I'm town too so yeah, this is a fine counterwagon.

Vote: NPAU

[uctriton00]

Question NPAU; what do you think of what was the goodmorning wagon?

[uctriton00]

Does this mean you're town-reading GM?

I'm reading them not being on the same team don't you agree

[uctriton00]

Combine 701 with 703 and if NPAU flips scum and GM flips town then I think MS is a gut shot scum draw

[uctriton00]

although if NPAU flipped first and flipped scum then GM would be conftown already (pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking that)

NPAU, regarding your 701, it looks like you very clearly do say that MS made a scummy post, you can't say that he makes a scummy post but is not a scum. You've used the term anti town before, so if you meant anti town, you meant anti town. You repped it as scummy back then. My vote stays on NPAU.

If NPAU flips scum, then I can see a scum partner saying exactly what 703 said. It's not a sure thing, it's a gut shot, but damn, it's incredibly uneasy to read that.

[uctriton00]

Your 729 answers it. I think if we are right on NPAU being scum it sets up some people to be town.

GM for same reasons why I've said I don't think they're on the same team.
Scripten for that well thought out case on NPAU (I would doubt its worth it to bus on Day 1 with 13 players, and I doubt a bus would have that much effort Scripten put. In my personal cases of bussing, usually it's some half assed sentence or idea, not a thought out case like that)

[uctriton00]

I.e. we are at plenty of liberty to be associative on Day 1. If any reads are wrong, then you adjust and move on

[uctriton00]

Then you find the BS in the wagon and attack it, your odds of no scum on a wagon is rather dim

[uctriton00]

I've discovered that uct is scum and you should vote him with me.

hi there reaction test

[uctriton00]

If NPAU showed up as town, would that change things? That was what I was really asking.

Why the heck wouldn't it?

[uctriton00]

Not a reaction test.

I'm all ears

[uctriton00]

Shinobi just shot up the scum charts for me

[uctriton00]

I slept on it and thought about it the rest of the day, unfortunately there's no update. I'm just not seeing the town motivation behind anything being said right now.

Bar him cueing up a total backtrack right now (which he basically gave up his only out of calling it a reaction test, and has said that it's a straight scum read), I don't see how his poking is town motivated. I've wrapped it around my head for a while and still can't see it.

[uctriton00]

The reason it doesn't swing all the way to town for me is that scum could make the same point that Shinobi did in order to cast doubts on the townpeople on the NPAU wagon to deflect suspicion from a buddy.

Do you see town motivation in Shinobi's posts, esp. the latest ones where he started stabbing at me?

[uctriton00]

^^^ Actually hold on, scratch that, I'd prefer you don't answer that until Shinobi comes in and speaks, I don't want him to parrot off anything you or anyone else has to say.

Hold onto the thought and come back to it later.

[uctriton00]

Also ISO'd huntress because I don't think I've ever talked about her yet.

At first I'd agree that she just sits and asks questions (which is the easiest way to play scum IMO, but that's a whole other discussion) which is suspicious, but her calling out the NPAU vote on her is good. If NPAU was scum, and probably bussing or something, they would at least get a bit more "into it", i.e. a bus usually looks more legitimate than a very dim passive interaction. I'd call her probable town too, using the power of more speculative associative reading.

[uctriton00]

Me too

[uctriton00]

I'm going to hold on to my case for a while, because how it turns out depends on how you answer my next few questions.

That answers that.

If you had an actual case or backing behind your vote, why not share it?

[uctriton00]

Simple question shinobi:

What is your case on me?

Without help from others, please show your work.

[uctriton00]

1. Ok, you're scum with NPAU.

Vote: Shinobi

2. I'm not sure what is hypocritical

[uctriton00]

My case on shinobi: he took my saying and applied it against me. I said, you either lynch scum, or if you're wrong or if the wagon feels bad, you go to the wagon and find the bullshit vote.

Shinobi says "you're the bullshit vote".

I ask him "why am I it". His reasoning:
1. I don't have to explain anything to you
2. good morning, vote him
3. Fucking lol

-----

There is nothing of substance in that case. No analysis, no evidence of a theory, no logical thought progression. I called him out saying it's likely a reaction test, but he denies it's not, implying that there's a reason behind it.

I think you lied about having a case, just to make a vote on me, and now you're trying to rally votes (at least you tried recruiting GM), to possibly "blame" them for it later on. In fact you'd love to lunch me as town, then you'd analyze my wagon saying you'll try to pay homage to me by attacking someone on the wagon, and you'd get another mislynch probably.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why I think Shinobi is scum. He lied about having a case, and is trying to randomly get people on it without substance.

[uctriton00]

And unlike Shinobi, I'm taking any and all questions, I'm here with full game attention now.

[uctriton00]

Plus Mala you've been weary of me lately, this is a great chance to read me or investigate me

[uctriton00]

That's because I never actually posted my case.

Are you fucking dense.

Shinobi you implied you didn't want to answer the question or post your case, you said you're not required to answer.

Please do post your case then, sorry to cut you off.

[uctriton00]

And f you too as well, seeing as you want to curse liberally

[uctriton00]

My gf is getting annoyed at me ignoring her, brb in 30 minutes

[uctriton00]

roommate is babbling right now
should have stayed in my car on my phone
sorry give me 10 more min

[uctriton00]

Here is where my genuine annoyedness came from; I spent the whole day thinking that Shinobi had a reason for voting me (other than being a reaction test). I'm like, well maybe he's scumhunting. But Shinobi responded saying it's not a reaction test (meaning he has a case on me).

I was trying to see your town motivation in not just outright saying what your case was. Yet you BOAST that "i'm gonna get people to vote you" and even start rallying goodmorning to put votes on me, even when you haven't said anything.

You then said "I don't have to explain anything to you". That's even more annoying, I just want to hear your case. I'm keeping the thought in my back pocket that you are scum trying to hide your thoughts. One scum strategy is to manipulate what someone says and twist it (I did it in Mini 1365, sorry I'm too lazy to link it, just meta it from me) when you don't have an organic case against someone.

When have I ever said "I will not answer any of your questions that you ask me, Shinobi?"

[uctriton00]

Sorry it was Mini 1315: Theatre Mafia
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Basically I began picking on people with no cases or follow ups (was on Psyche and Smudger for a bit) and tried to basically mud them. Kinda hard to get just by reading an ISO but it was definitely my thought process as scum
1. Put a vote on someone
2. Get reactions from them
3. Run those reactions through mud
4. Make a case based on #3

[uctriton00]

The issue is that uct's reasoning completely falls apart if NPAU is town. In theory, town lynches are all illogical because lynching town inherently makes no sense. Uct's reasoning for his scumread boils down to "it sets people up to be town" which is nothing more than convenience for the sake of convenience.

The primary reason for voting is NPAU being a scum read. If NPAU is town, then I start all over.

Heck, look at this completed game: I hammered mathbandit because I thought he was scum.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6102032

Turns out mathbandit flipped town, so I was wrong. I'm like, ok well damn, let's go rethink my logic.

The associative reasoning, that's all

secondary

and is not the primary motivator of lynching NPAU.

I'm not lynching NPAU for an info lynch (which is what you are implying). I don't have a town read on NPAU at all. I'm lynching him primarily because I think he's scum. Associative reading is *not* set in concrete; they could have night 1, day 2, night 2, day 3, night 3, etc.

[uctriton00]

1) I called you scummy because of reasons that I haven't yet disclosed.
2) You flipped out and said I have no town motivation for anything.
3) I asked you a question, and you still haven't answered it because I haven't posted my case.
4) You made a case which I've already debunked.
5) You came up with more reasons to vote me because of things that you did in another game.

You're making it impossible for me to get a good read on you because I really can't tell where you're coming from. You can't call someone scum and come up with reasoning afterwards because that doesn't make sense.

As for your proposed scumteam, I've already come out with reasons as to why I would vote NPAU. Why is it that you think that I'm his scumpartner if I already said I'm totally willing to vote him?

Alternatively, if I'm not scum, who is and why?

Here is my view on your 1-5

1) You called me scummy but didn't say why (we agree)
2) I flipped out and said I have no town motivation for anything (because I'm wondering what the heck is going on, and am thinking you're scum trying to save NPAU. As town, I would have thought you would have asked me questions to try to sort me out, but instead you claimed you had a set case and wanted everyone to vote me instead, yet never posted a case. I *would* have retracted this idea HAD you posted your case last night, but instead you came in and said "I don't have to explain anything" which is dumb.)
3) I missed it; answering it now: the scum motivation is that you said you had a case on me and started voting, instead of immediately sharing it.
4) You haven't debunked anything
5) It's called making a theory

This is going back to my original point: "I don't have to explain anything to you".
That is scummy beyond belief.

[uctriton00]

Why could you and NPAU be scum together? Imagine NPAU is scum, and then a counterwagon attempt was brought to try to derail it, started by Shinobi.

Is any of this fact? No, we have no facts whatsoever. I could be wrong all over the place. This is called playing Day 1 Mafia.

I think you asked me who else could be scum. Hell I have no idea who else could be scum. I have a few town reads based on some associative reading, but nothing firm yet. I know I'm town, that's about it. I can tell you who my no lynch pool today is: MS, Mala, Scripten, Goodmorning, Heph, and maybe Huntress, even though I spent all of 1 day reading that ISO.

[uctriton00]

Forgot BBT is in the no lynch list for me as well

His reasoning for voting NPAU is "it sets people up to be town."

Nope.

I'm going off the idea (not fact, just an idea) that goodmorning is a town, and the wagon was bad. I looked and the only one that seemed plausible to be on it (assuming it wasn't an all-townie wagon) was NPAU. There's sheeping in there for me because Scripten did make a good organic case and I liked it so much that I followed it.

[uctriton00]

NPAU is scummier; the Shinobi case's standing is that he's bringing a fake vote on, with motivation to get off NPAU

I'd still want NPAU lynched, and would be willing to Intent if he ever gets to L-1 one day

[uctriton00]

Forgot to include Shinobi's brazen avoidance of "I don't have to explain anything to you", which is scummy enough to me to where I think he's scum, so that's why I voted him.

[uctriton00]

You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia. That is simply not how this game works.

I reread this like 3 times but am assuming you misworded it. "You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia."

What are you talking about? Are you saying I am trying to convince you that you are Mafia? Are you trying to convince me that I am Mafia? What? As far as I know, all I did was ask "Shinobi, why am I the bullshit on the wagon? Why is it me?"

I'm mad at you because you simply said "I don't have to explain anything to you". That to me is scummy.

[uctriton00]

I need to eat something, but main Shinobi problem: case a bit weak, reluctance to share not great. main uct problem: prodding people is absolutely not antitown and he needs to explain why he said that.

It wasn't a prod, it was him saying "lets lynch this fuck"

You can't read his abrasive language and think it was a townie prodding for info

[uctriton00]

Mala wagon isn't happening, so if we could just not.

@GM: So what if my case was weak? I thought it was strong. I pushed it and I figured out I was wrong. What's the problem with that?

Can you rehash everything you learned please, I'm not getting why you think I'm town as opposed to before all of a sudden when you cursed me out

[uctriton00]

And it would be nice if you did it in an easy to understand format, with your "case" to boot again

This wouldn't be just for me, this would be for everyone to read. You wouldn't mind doing that now, thx.

[uctriton00]

You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia. That is simply not how this game works.

I reread this like 3 times but am assuming you misworded it. "You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia."

What are you talking about? Are you saying I am trying to convince you that you are Mafia? Are you trying to convince me that I am Mafia? What? As far as I know, all I did was ask "Shinobi, why am I the bullshit on the wagon? Why is it me?"

I'm mad at you because you simply said "I don't have to explain anything to you". That to me is scummy.

So am I scummy because you're mad at me or am I scummy because I play the game differently than you?

You're scummy because you are acting scummy and pretty flaky. I'm trying to follow your logical thought processes and I don't get it, I'm worried you're trying to fake things and make up stuff you don't really see. So yes, it answers both.

And also address that slip I quoted of you; what do you mean "you are never going to convince your target they are mafia". Who is convincing who? When did that happen?

[uctriton00]

Now, is NPAU really the right target? I think, without looking back, that a lot of the case was on inactivity, which is really easy to target.

why does this feel bad to read out loud

[uctriton00]

i.e. if we were playing real life mafia and someone just said this, i'd be suspicious of it.

[uctriton00]

Well reading back to BBT's one link I just realized that Uct never did answer a question in regards to Heph and his meta.

What was it, I missed it then

[uctriton00]

Plus I'm still waiting on a Shinobi response; he posted earlier today, and I'll give him benefit of the doubt that he's at work.

Just hope that I don't get a "I don't have to explain anything" scummy response again. Rehashing the question again:

"What was your original case on me, and how did it change to a town read all of a sudden?"

[uctriton00]

I just really don't feel like dealing with you.

If both NPAU and Shinobi are scum I'll glady vote myself out the very next day in a blaze of glory because this is hilarious as ****.

This guy seriously won't answer a simple question.

[uctriton00]

Plus I'm still waiting on a Shinobi response; he posted earlier today, and I'll give him benefit of the doubt that he's at work.

Just hope that I don't get a "I don't have to explain anything" scummy response again. Rehashing the question again:

"What was your original case on me, and how did it change to a town read all of a sudden?"

I just really don't feel like dealing with you.

Can we have a refresh? Someone wants a question answered and the other one refuses to answer the question because the asker hasn't posted something. Can't recall who is asking, who is refusing to answer, and what the various cases are.

Dave, reread my post and tell me where in there you don't see me asking the question to shinobi

[uctriton00]

if i replace out and request access to spoilers i think it would make it very easier wouldn't it

i just want to know if im right

If Shinobi or NPAU isn't lynched I'll join you

[uctriton00]

Because if you're town and think you have caught scum, why even think of replacing out? If you're town and think you're right about town, you'd stay to play the next day and catch the scum on the wagon.

When a player pool is collectively deciding to not participate or take a side then it's inactivity and that's how you let scum win

Tired of inactivity

Someone just come in already and comment on my case in Shinobi (other than the passive as **** "oh it's town v town") argument. Give words and reasons behind your opinions.

[uctriton00]

Huntress sorry I keep missing stuff if you ask I'm just miffed that more people down weigh in on something I think we clearly need to address

He'll if Shinobi is town then it's in my meta I'm totally willing to admit I'm wrong but that's neither here nor there because I think I'm right but would at least like outside opinions

To answer your 870. The one vote bothers me because it didnt look backed up at all (I know Shinobi goes "yeah look at post number blah blah", because if it was a genuine vote, Town would have zero problem reiterating it when challenged. Simply put, if you're a townie and you have an idea, you easily spit it out and share your logic when someone asks. Shinobi decided to go "I don't explain anything" and is now trolling along because he knows he has 0 outside pressure, which I'm applying for people to put.

My early scum read came from a catch up when I was joining the game. Did you want me to go over them?

[uctriton00]

That second paragraph should say "hell" to start

[uctriton00]

First paragraph should say "more people don't weigh in"

[uctriton00]

Sorry for the mini rant but I'd just like opinions on my vote at least

[uctriton00]

Uctriton is scum

Ugh

You're scum aren't you

[uctriton00]

mod, vacation for this weekend, will be trying to check in during prod times, sunday will be hardest day to post

[uctriton00]

Here, reading quick

[uctriton00]

VOTE: npau

[uctriton00]

Hammered

Twilight NPAU please post everyone on the wagon

[uctriton00]

What you think of them

[uctriton00]

Back, catching up later

[uctriton00]

Managed to post once in the past week (a prod dodge) and I have no fingers or votes or whatever at me

America, **** yeah

Skimming the past 9 pages in these next 10 minutes

[uctriton00]

Pretty much stopped at 1032 where josh asks if GM can be cleared

Combine that with what in my impression was NPAU and GM being opposite, gives me GM and now gives me josh

[uctriton00]

One thing I'd go for are people in the thread who quickly say they know they should not have been on the lunch.

I hammered with intent in finding scum. If a town flips, scum can easily say yeah well it was a bad idea.

I'm clearly inefficient on an iPad to do this, but when I get to a desktop this weekend ill look deeper into that. It's a thought I have.

[uctriton00]

Ok, so Uticron is actually town, That's good to know. I probably should have read him as town when he was arguing with shinobi, but i felt like most of that argument was over playstyle and game theory.

hey can you answer this josh, why am i town

pretty sure in my skim someone asked you to explain it, but from your ISO i don't know which one of your posts is an answer to that question

[uctriton00]

vote: josh

[uctriton00]

need to catch up, i'm seriously behind

all i have right now at this point before i read again:
wisdom town (based on effort, albeit that best town performance tag is actually a lot of confirmation bias)
josh scum (attempting to buddy me for the sake of buddying me; his town reads are completely unfounded and is saying my town read is based on an omgus (even though the omgus took place waaaaaaay after he said i was town) and is trying to use a joke replace in post as actual evidence, which is ******* retarded and deserves a blacklist if he flips town in this game)
gm scum by association (npau flipping town, and josh is saying that gm should be cleared)
shinobi null (ever since npau flipped town, but that doesn't mean i think shinobi is confirmed town necessarily, it means i don't have an actual assessment yet)
heph scum (based on what i last read from him before i didn't play much this past weekend and thus the reason i'm behind 12 pages)

[uctriton00]

in addition i thought metal sonic was a genuine town person too

[uctriton00]

Because I don't need to. You're being stupid and don't want to let go. You will eventually.

TBH wisdom, isn't this at least a little manipulative to say to someone in Mafia?

[uctriton00]

I asked that because I was also wondering why you have such a strong town read on dave to the point where you are relegating him untouchable, when it looks like BBT was mirroring the same frustrating I had with Shinobi when Shinobi didn't want to ask questions

Can you just quickly say why Dave is town

[uctriton00]

*frustration, not frustrating

[uctriton00]

but I do believe Shinobi was the one trying to sort out uctriton while uctriton stood there tunneling and ignoring everything Shinobi was saying.

lol

I wanted Shinobi to explain his stance on why I was scum (with such a vengeful attitude too, to boot, which put me on even further tilt since I feel like it's unnecessary to do that).

He said he didn't have to explain it.

I don't know how that is Shinobi trying to sort me out.

[uctriton00]

^ disregard, I just read your 1397

[uctriton00]

me it must mean you've reached a conclusion, yes?

You're a good player. I have respect for your style. After this is all over, I hope that you can give me some tips on my play.

Scumclaim.

I actually don't hate this right here.

[uctriton00]

@Mod, can you post links to Game Events on the front page, like "End of Day 1, Start of Day 2", and also include the flip results in the opening page

[uctriton00]

Tbh that looks like an over reaction to me

The only thing that happened was wisdom posting one sentence

[uctriton00]

Not sure if i agree that in the case josh is town, that the entire scum team would be on the wagon

I'd think there are scum both on the wagon and off any wagon; I have no evidence to prove it but I'd think in general scum teams split presence in all directions

As to the actions of talking and such, I think Hephaestus is still a prime candidate for being a lurker teammate if he is scum. I'm prone to believe in most games, there's usually one low content lurker there.

[uctriton00]

Tbh me

[uctriton00]

But then I'd implore you to go after Shinobi just for fun

[uctriton00]

*if I were to be lunched

[uctriton00]

Gut would say there's a lurker, maybe heph
Peabody fits the profile too due to gut and sheeping of you
If its both heph and peabody then 3rd is probably someone random like mala

[uctriton00]

What do you mean "me"? You would think you are scum..?

That was a joke

[uctriton00]

I don't even have a town read on you, at this rate I'm still annoyed at how you couldn't just answer a case right away, which could very well still be scummy behavior

Your reply just now, It's like you're keeping score. "Sweet, I out town-performed him" as if that was the goal of the exchange for you.

[uctriton00]

In fact I'm starting to question that.

You seem content in saying that "you look more town than me". What's the goal of townies in mafia scum? Finding scum. What's the goal of scum? Looking townie.

There's a paradigm shift that's important to think about and now I'm curious.

[uctriton00]

Nice defense there, ironic because I told a joke a few minutes earlier

What troubles me is that in my most recent game, kibbles' scum strategy was to mirror me logically and use most of my same language, to try to endear me. Unfortunately the town derped so hard and we died.

[uctriton00]

That's not how irony works.

And furthermore, you're sheeping the lynch I started. Don't sit here and sling mud at me because you're agreeing with me.

You mean like peabody is doing?

?

[uctriton00]

Why is shinobi's quote in there, damn it

? was only for wisdom

[uctriton00]

That's not how irony works.

And furthermore, you're sheeping the lynch I started. Don't sit here and sling mud at me because you're agreeing with me.

Mod can we play vengeful mafia
And can I be lunched
And can I choose my vengeful target

[uctriton00]

I've already discovered that uct is town.

I went over your ISO and i'm probably tired from work, but did anyone straight up ask you why you think i'm town and did you answer them, because all that I got from you is you saying that I'm a self perpetuating logic person.

To me, that doesn't show why anyone is town; in fact it shows scumminess.

[uctriton00]

@Shinobi, no I don't know nor ever really notice when I play

So, please walk me through your logical process of how I became town, using evidence before your post where you first claimed I'm town

[uctriton00]

Rofl, I think so.

I really don't think it's a bad thing to find town.

This post, 847, is where you came to a realization I am town

How did you get there

[uctriton00]

Uct for me is becoming more and more scum in my eyes.

I don't like the change of his read on Heph. This seems really opportunistic IMO. He hasn't answered a question that I asked him back in D1 in regards to a comment that he made on Heph. This seems to me that he can't back up what he was trying to convey back in D1.

VOTE: Uct

Shinobi this would be the time to explain Uct-town because I'm not seeing it.

Maybe you're scum actually too.

[uctriton00]

Heph read? It went from him playing his meta, now he placed a bad vote in me (kinda like you just did now).

[uctriton00]

He didnt?

[uctriton00]

Uctriton is scum

Ok well there wasn't a vote, but there it is

[uctriton00]

Uct for me is becoming more and more scum in my eyes.

I don't like the change of his read on Heph. This seems really opportunistic IMO. He hasn't answered a question that I asked him back in D1 in regards to a comment that he made on Heph. This seems to me that he can't back up what he was trying to convey back in D1.

VOTE: Uct

Shinobi this would be the time to explain Uct-town because I'm not seeing it.

Maybe you're scum actually too.

Again, do you have

any

scumreads that aren't grounded in OMGUS or opportunistic bandwagons?

I don't know, does it matter? I'm posting what my gut immediately tells me, it's a way for me to think

And if its 2am, I'll forgive you for ignoring my request for asking you to explain a read.

Please do consider that I am asking you to do something which should be really simple, so I'd wonder what reason you would have if you delay this request... again.

[uctriton00]

Rofl, I think so.

I really don't think it's a bad thing to find town.

This post, 847, is where you came to a realization I am town

How did you get there

[uctriton00]

Heph read? It went from him playing his meta, now he placed a bad vote in me (kinda like you just did now).

So you changed your read on him just because he posted "uctriton is scum"?
Why didn't you engage him like you did with Shinobi?
And why is Mala's vote "bad" now?

I don't like votes on me period, I get defensive about them especially when I tell the truth and am honest 100% in them, so of course I'm suspicious. (In fact, remember me when I said I didn't open my role PM in that one micro game back then?)

Heph hasn't done much so I'm thinking he's a lurk scum at this point. There's always "one" IMO

[uctriton00]

I thought I did go over it at one point about my theory of there being one lurker at any point in a scum team, maybe it wasn't in this game

Anyway usually there's one who just lurks back and stays quiet, maybe blends in a bit and goes under the radar

Heph fits that, plus combine that with him trying to vote (well, finger point then, not vote), makes him a scum candidate.

Tbh before he said that, I thought he was just unhelpful VT which fits his meta

[uctriton00]

May have overreacted to the mala vote, I just got mad at the vote being on me. My original read on mala was based on legitimate effort from her, which is too much for a scum to be going through IMO

[uctriton00]

I'm not scum, dude

[uctriton00]

Oh god I can picture it.

Shinobi is probably going to get to dodge answering my question tomorrow morning, he'll say "nah I don't have to explain how I got a town read in you in post 847, it doesn't matter, I got enough people who think you're scummy that we can just lunch you"

[uctriton00]

Josh I don't know. To be fair I shouldn't have said blacklist or retarded, so I understand him saying eat a dick, I probably went too far. But he actually stood up and engaged for like 2 pages I think. I didn't read it in detail but the effort was there. I'll read it tomorrow morning in detail and chew on my read about him.

Shinobi I'll gladly wait patiently for him to explain how he got a town read.

[uctriton00]

So maybe you can vote him instead. Maybe it will make him answer.

vote: shinobi

There's a guy Ki Gi who told me to vote someone with him in my last game then was like yeah you're scum you just do what I say! Almost got me lynched.

He and I were both town btw in that game fwiw.

[uctriton00]

Oh god I can picture it.

Shinobi is probably going to get to dodge answering my question tomorrow morning, he'll say "nah I don't have to explain how I got a town read in you in post 847, it doesn't matter, I got enough people who think you're scummy that we can just lunch you"

Tbh I'd love to do this, but I have to play the game and stuff now.

It's such garbage but it has to be done.

Sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite

[uctriton00]

I don't like how you're scared about how your actions will be taken.

Not what I meant, I meant last time someone asked me to vote with them, I did and they tried to lunch me for doing so

[uctriton00]

Now that mod linked the timeline for me on the opening post (sorry didn't notice you did it already, thanks mod!)

@Josh

The hammer was particularly suspect.

But during this time you said I was a bad choice for a lynch. I hammered though; wouldn't I be suspect?

[uctriton00]

WOW...I really wish I could edit my posts.

Uct or GM for me today.

I think a uct and GM are bad choices. Didn't the fast wagon clear GM?

Besides what Scripten said about Uct, what's your oppinion of Uct?

[uctriton00]

Huntress explain

[uctriton00]

How do you get a scum read on me, case please

[uctriton00]

WOW...I really wish I could edit my posts.

Uct or GM for me today.

I think a uct and GM are bad choices. Didn't the fast wagon clear GM?

Besides what Scripten said about Uct, what's your oppinion of Uct?

Oh yea, I was scum hunting BBT. What do you think about his D2 choices?

Wait, so you were scum hunting him, meaning I got a town read? I don't get what you mean

D2 choices idk ill read it later

[uctriton00]

Rofl, I think so.

I really don't think it's a bad thing to find town.

This post, 847, is where you came to a realization I am town

How did you get there

Long story short is that I realized that my case was bad and we started engaging each other on a point-by-point basis, which usually indicates a TvT fight. I really don't like the way you think about things but it always seems to come from the same place so...I guess that makes sense. Sort of.

@Mala: I don't care for lynching triton much at the moment. What are your opinions on the Wisdom/Josh fight?

Meh, let me think about it

unvote

[uctriton00]

last I remember BBT was trying to lynch wisdom, what are you talking about.

Day 2 has been 55 pages long or something.

[uctriton00]

Uctriton, I think I'm going to untown you.

And that's a rather unaggressive stance you took there, like tipping your toe into the water.

Vote: Josh

[uctriton00]

BBT said that his choices for lynching were you or GM. If there's a question that you want to ask me about, surely you know the context and didn't just ISO me in hopes of picking out random things that you could say are suspect.

I didn't know you meant that particular sentence, I thought you meant his entire Day 2 play which I'd need to read in ISO later.

And no I didn't come up and "ISO you to pick things out", I was analyzing the morning of Day 2 and seeing people's reactions to the lynches. I like to think there's always good stuff to find upon people's first reactions.

[uctriton00]

@BBT, he actually does raise a good question

Why me or gm?

[uctriton00]

Prod dodge, went out for the weekend, catching up tomorrow

[uctriton00]

Unvote

Will try best not to get prodded again; if it does I should be replaced, my vote is just sheep weight at that rate

[uctriton00]

I'm back 11 pages, but while I read this, does anyone have any scum reads on me right now that i can talk to

[uctriton00]

Also, I'm willing to sheep almost anyone onto almost any wagon.

I won't sheep Wisdom or Pea.

I might sheep GM or Josh.

I won't vote Huntress.

My vote is yours when you need it.

Go!

Uct and NPAU may be good wagons also. These are based on reading Scripten's ISO now that he be dead.

WOW...I really wish I could edit my posts.

Uct or GM for me today.

You (Uct) was from Scripten's ISO I believe.

GM because I thought she was scum D1 and her play D2 hasn't changed my mind.

This was a long, long time ago though.

My top 3 lynches for today would be Wisdom,

Josh

or Pea.

I feel comfortable that you're town, Uct.

p.s. josh may very well be town in this case

[uctriton00]

wait that was a long ass time ago though, that was him answering my question

disregard

@josh, that's not a slip

[uctriton00]

So I might be on the wrong track about Uct if I'm right on something.

Gonna hold off from an Uct vote until I can find time to sort something out.

UNVOTE: Uct.

Do you expatiate on this later?

[uctriton00]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BBT

I can't shake the feeling that peabody is going for towncred after a Shinobi townflip. That post sounded like neither town disagreeing with a wagon nor a scumbuddy.

If Shinobi is town (which I'm still not even sure of), this is definitely worth a look.
If Shinobi is scum then maybe Peabody is a teammate defending him (more likely) or Peabody is a town who knew what's up (which I doubt; the way this game is going I doubt there are any 100% accurate town reads from anyone in this game)

[uctriton00]

Also, I'm willing to sheep almost anyone onto almost any wagon.

I won't sheep Wisdom or Pea.

I might sheep GM or Josh.

I won't vote Huntress.

My vote is yours when you need it.

Go!

Uct and NPAU may be good wagons also. These are based on reading Scripten's ISO now that he be dead.

WOW...I really wish I could edit my posts.

Uct or GM for me today.

You (Uct) was from Scripten's ISO I believe.

GM because I thought she was scum D1 and her play D2 hasn't changed my mind.

This was a long, long time ago though.

My top 3 lynches for today would be Wisdom,

Josh

or Pea.

I feel comfortable that you're town, Uct.

awjqnwjnqwrnqwr.

Just saying.

So I might be on the wrong track about Uct if I'm right on something.

Gonna hold off from an Uct vote until I can find time to sort something out.

UNVOTE: Uct.

I might be willing to vote NC as his posts so far haven't swung me one way or another.
Still okay with a peabody vote/lynch.
Not okay with a vote on Huntress, Wisdom or GM. Don't want to vote BBT or Shinobi if I can avoid it.

-__-

I hate this game because I don't really know where I want to go, but I'm pretty sure at least one of these wagons at this point are probably on scum, which makes me sad because most of these wagons are townreads one way or another.

Should be back on Wednesday as I have a 12 hour today (tuesday).

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BBT

I can't shake the feeling that peabody is going for towncred after a Shinobi townflip. That post sounded like neither town disagreeing with a wagon nor a scumbuddy.

I can't tell you till after game. Also, don't speculate about it either.

I have no problem with a Peabody lynch, would have no problem with a Shinobi lynch either

only people i wouldn't be lynching today are aegor and mala

[uctriton00]

i have no idea why the quotes got stuck in the reply box of "quick reply"

[uctriton00]

I have no problem with a Peabody lynch, would have no problem with a Shinobi lynch either

only people i wouldn't be lynching today are aegor and mala

[uctriton00]

will put a vote monday morning to prevent a ML, going to be on VLA sunday

[uctriton00]

Good morning have you found our common game together yet, I couldn't find it

[uctriton00]

So you are scumreading a player, in what world does it make sense to join that wagon?

uhhhhh

[uctriton00]

Hey Uct,

Vote please.

just finished reading the blast from the past (I loved trolling z-boson there; that guy had no business voting so early in the lylo game day, wtf). My first gut was a town GM would feel different. That GM was even using math at one point to break stuff down (granted, first time i saw someone use math and stuff, it was my scum teammate Nacho so i never trusted math all that much), but she was indeed town.

Comparing that to GM this game, there's not enough info left in this gameday to see if she's scum, but definitely worth a look for anyone who wants to research it as well. (link here to a game GM and i shared)

But that hephaestus slot (nero cain) logic to not get onto the wagon is ridiculous. Scum read on heph (especially for that one terrible finger point he put back there on day.... day whatever that was).

going to hammer once Peabody gets to L-1. I think Peabody's defenders are sketchy.

[uctriton00]

and to answer your question, NLes happen when hammer votes are left in the hands of inactive players.

If you want a hammer done right, you do it yourself. I'm offering someone else to get him to L-1 then I can finish it.

[uctriton00]

Back

ooooooh, an L-1 presented on someone else instead

[uctriton00]

If Shinobi is town (which I'm still not even sure of), this is definitely worth a look.
If Shinobi is scum then maybe Peabody is a teammate defending him (more likely) or Peabody is a town who knew what's up (which I doubt; the way this game is going I doubt there are any 100% accurate town reads from anyone in this game)

How would you guess that there aren't any 100% accurate town reads? We only had one flip.

Do you mind answering this when you get the chance, Uct? Also why did you say it?

answering what?

[uctriton00]

What do you think of my wagon growing so quickly Pea?

Still confident I am scum?

tbh this is a terrible stance imo; reminds me of the mathbandit wagon in my previous game where he got to L-1 by page 7 and was hammered

(ironically by me)

was town too

[uctriton00]

*terrible wagon, not terrible stance

[uctriton00]

If Aegor isn't coming back,

@ BBT,

where do we look/go for tomorrow?

[uctriton00]

I'm willing to wait a little while longer.

What's your gut say right now?

[uctriton00]

I'm willing to wait a little while longer.

What's your gut say right now?

I'm sorry.

What are you doing?

I was going to hammer BBT instead of getting a no lynch if aegor never came back

[uctriton00]

Vote: Peabody

[uctriton00]

Vote: Peabody

[uctriton00]

where the fuck is my post?

anyway Peabody
I doubt anyone has 100% accurate town reads in this game, so when you are fervently saying no on shinobi, it makes me wonder you know something others don't

[uctriton00]

HOLY **** someone buy this website a new server "Waiting for mafiascum.net......."

[uctriton00]

I think Metal Sonic / Wisdom / etc is a town read, but it doesn't mean I'd be afraid to look into his case or not touch him if he ever got to L-1.

I think BBT is town but even then I'd gladly have lynched him if presented with no choice.

Mainly I'm suspicious of people who have untouchables unless you have evidence.

[uctriton00]

I question Uct's alignment based on that statement he made. BBT is obviously a scum read of mine. Check out Heph.

tbh i'm down with this

[uctriton00]

except the me part

[uctriton00]

'100% accurate town read'

I think Metal Sonic or Wisdom or Aegor are town and they are my strongest town reads.

But it could be wrong.

Thus it's not an accurate read.

This happens everywhere in Mafia, especially in games without cops or ****.

[uctriton00]

This is unhelpful due to formatting, but in this game I had Psycho as incredibly town and would praise everything she ever wrote as "excellent point, bravo, god damn you're town" and she was indeed scum and i got us all dead

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

give me a minute to sort it if you want

[uctriton00]

So the reason I ask why you said that is you seem to demonstrate knowledge that no one's town reads are right.

i doubt anyone has any good town reads (or scum reads) at this point in the game, and I'm getting the feeling there are a lot of other players who feel like this too (including BBT) and I think others alluded to it too

[uctriton00]

Hoping there's a peabody scum flip, that would make things fall into place easier (i know people hate "x scum, then y and z must be!" and other associative reading, but it's a tool you can use when you have flips) because I'd put in heph for refusal to join it, no idea where we would look for a 3rd.

If peabody town, I think BBT is a good choice, and i'd still like to put heph on it too (the only way that logic would work, of scum bbt and scum heph, is that heph tried to earn cheap town cred points? hell anything is possible)

[uctriton00]

I like how UCT is now trying to accuse me of trying to earn cheap town cred by not voting Pea-PRE-FLIP!

sorry i just have an existing vendetta against the guy and his playstyle in general

ninja'd by peabody
who ironically said the same thing
this is heph and nothing personal to nero cain

[uctriton00]

*vendetta against heph if you couldn't tell

[uctriton00]

I very much like how Shinobi and UCT are now heavily implying Pea is a mislynch

This your first twilight?

[uctriton00]

VOTE: huntress

[uctriton00]

Can bbt please go next if I'm lynched

Go BBT then Shinobi then josh

[uctriton00]

Well huntress before josh

Either way it's bbt and huntress
Shinobi and josh battle for 3rd

[uctriton00]

Forgot about heph

Actually anyone in this game is up for 3rd scum, even Aegor, there's no untouchables in this game at that point

Any questions

[uctriton00]

BBT has not replaced at all this game, I'd think that as scum and how scum are whipping through this game, that he would not let go of a perfect win opportunity

That's honest right there

Huntress the same, plus too much lurking and not enough poking, and was Mala the only one poking huntress seriously?

And I take back my read on Aegor; he is town and I can't say why, just that he's incredibly town

[uctriton00]

Going to apply the same logic, 3rd could be good morning (good bet) or Shinobi (same reason)

I'm being completely serious in using that read

Are there any more questions

[uctriton00]

Actually no, I really want what I just said to resonate, if I let you guys overthink this, you may talk yourselves out of it

I am too dangerous to keep in the game, having been wrong too many times, I'll hurt the town as a great lylo candidate

Twilight come quickly; tomorrow, I say bbt and huntress as good bets, good morning maybe 3rd (I know I'm flip flopping a lot on 3rd), but play open minded, leave NOTHING off the table (well except Aegor)

[uctriton00]

VOTE: uctriton00

Mod please read my paragraph above; I am legitimately doing this and not playing against my win con

[uctriton00]

Oh also masons claim tomorrow too

[uctriton00]

Well, I was wrong on most of my reads, in fact the only "good" read I had came at the very end of the game where I said to look at people who didn't replace. Huntress and gm had been in the entire game, and there's no reason for them to replace, they were winning by a landslide.

hephaestus, if he had stayed in, would have gotten himself killed too, so Nero did a good job.

I still think I did the right thing by killing myself because I would have taken out BBT or Shinobi before hephaestus, so I would have lost us the game anyway.

[uctriton00]

@Mod, you did a fine job, but I agree 3 week timelines are way too long; the days become gluttonous pages (like 20-25+ pages each?) and catching up becomes a chore and apathy sets in. Other than that, no complaints, congrats on your first completed game!

What happened with the Wisdom force replace?

[uctriton00]

This game was extremely hard to gauge, I would have driven us off a cliff

So my guts are huntress and GM, then idk for 3rd

I still think aegor is town because I don't see a scenario where a scum is force replaced

Yeah, I was gonna say that I didn't find any of those reads to be particularly useful.

No offense.

heh

Yeah Shinobi my frustration with you that day was completely sincere, I thought you were making a case just for making a case. What seriously went through your head when you said "I found the bullshit, I am attacking it?". Like seriously, what was that?

[uctriton00]

Wisdom was replaced for fear of having outside knowledge of the game given to them by another player.

Didn't see this mod.

I'll PM you; in my second moderated game I had a mistake where I had to force replace someone, so if we share experiences maybe we can learn from them?

[uctriton00]

No, it was all I could really use to try to scum hunt, I wasn't getting much one on one from others at all this game, I felt ignored

I was heavy info lynching this game, otherwise I couldn't form any reads otherwise