Open 573: C9++

[Heartless]

idk...didn't know I was voting him right now.

You don't know, as in you're not suspicious of Death Stare anymore or... what? This recent post makes me think you still think Death Stare is scum, that's why I even asked about it in the first place.

Spoiler:

But honestly, I'm not really interested in talking with Nacho really anymore since at best we're just running in circles around each other.

-Ank

so bus him.

you seem to be unable to distinguish the difference between nacho and I. HE is the 1 who called you town the first time. I agree with him. in xmen I didn't call you town cos I knew you, muffina and I were on the right track and I didn't want you nked. in this game I don't give a shit cos you are being a dick. <---- this will make me lose interest every time.

Please don't check out. I can't really figure out your logic, so that's what I'm trying to get at right now.
You think it's GrayFoxx, Nero Cain, and who else? How did you reverse your Nero Cain read? I'm a little out of the loop since I don't know what happened in the previous game (and I'm probably not going to look at it). Is there an established pattern you two talking about or just that one game?

What is that even?

Also, your old avatar was better. This one has more of a maleficent feel to it.

(Well I, for one, think the purple is fabulous, thank you very much.)
I'm guessing that was Anti's suspect list. I could see GrayFoxx and maybe massive, but my "question mark" positions are occupied by you, 50 Shades of Grey, dave, and MTD for varying reasons. As for the brackets and slashes... I don't know. My brother is weird.

Let's talk for a second, MonkeyMan:

It feels like you're all over the place. You voted wgeurts first, then voted Anenien for not picking up your sarcasm and now you're voting Death Stare for... some sort of other perceived "scumslip." You seem to be so missing the forest for the trees and your voting pattern seems to be based on reactions to single posts. What's you overall (global) impression of the game so far?

Well, I wanted to hear from sthar, but it looks like that's out of the question until Saturday.

-TTH

[MonkeyMan]

Wrguets is still scum. That isn't going to change but I am the only one to see it. Anen I felt was pushing an unbelievable angle, by that I mean I don't think he even thought what he was saying wasn't bull. Death did just slip. I am pretty sure they considered me as scum and yet said that Nero would be WKing me.

[50 Shades of Purple]

As I expected I would be, I am unhappy with the game state after leaving it alone for a few days.

[50 Shades of Purple]

*rev rev rev*
^
chainsaw sounds

I kinda disliked his early trolling and cluttering up the thread

^
explaining why I was early voting DS

Even though you do this in basically every game ever, you jumped too early on asking for my reaction to my wagon. You should've waited until more votes piled up.

yeah, please get to dying. You are basically waving me off which I think is far more likely to come from scum then town and the wgwerts was all "STOP VOTING DS" so your "you jumped too early on asking for my reaction" really doesn't make sense in context of the gamestate.

^
pointing out that I didn't like DS waving me off AND explaining why I dislike Wegurts. And the wegurts thing felt like it should have been pretty obvious so that "YOU HAVE NO REASONING FOR VOTING WEGURTS!!!" seems sorta fake. Fake, like Mollies in-game personality.

Not entirely sure if its a reading thing or if you are scum going out of his way to misrep me (I'm going with scum!) but claiming that I don't have reasons for suspecting people and that I had little content (both untrue btw) is a blatant lie. Now why would town do that?

I think Mollie is very likely scum 'cause townMollie doesn't town read townNero thus means is very likely to be scumMollie.

I still think DS is p scummy. Maybe it was just GIF being worthless town...idk. Maybe Mollie was bussing him earlier dunno yet but like if you are town you should sheep me to victory or like you could just die after 50 shades of scum flips.

I read you as town. Mollie didn't read you as town.
Going "x player always calls me scum so player calling me town means they are scum" is bad reasoning unless you can back it up, which you can't, meaning everything about your post, from the premise to the conclusion to the logic to get there, is completely wrong. I miss early game Nero

[50 Shades of Purple]

i admittedly didn't read grey fox's posts very closely but the conviction and indignation alone seems town enough

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Do you disagree???
Why do you think he is scum, dear Antihero?

[50 Shades of Purple]

Nacho, darling.

you're acting like there's no progression in my reads, and like you don't know what pressure is. Both of these things should be pretty obvious to you.

whoagurt looks like new town. Monkey does not. You put too much stock in reputation as a game mechanic.

"Waah you're all dumb for not liking my case" is not a towntell. Ask mollie about Faith Plus One, she'll remember.

Other than that, I think we agree on our reads lists.

hey I have no idea what yours trying to say here (if I accused you of a lack of progression in your reads I sure as hell don't remember it) but if you feel monkey is scum feel free to case him up because he still looks town to me (frustration at people for not listening to reads is still a towntell, scum being able to fake towntells don't destroy the validity of them), but the best so far I've heard about monkey being scum is that his attack on wg is opportunistic which is bad for reasons already discussed and also more

[50 Shades of Purple]

Re: Anen:
"He attacked an easy target but he didn't attack the easiest target": this is a bad point because it assumes scum take the path of lowest resistance every time. This clearly isn't the case, and also lol @ death stare being an easy target.

"He asked me for my games and thus isn't scum": it seemed ridiculous to me that he felt strong enough about fluff in the early game being indicative of scum where he supposedly needed to check your past games to see it was possible for town to fluff that much, especially since no one really was producing content by that point.

[50 Shades of Purple]

*overwhelmed*

Forget trying to address everything at once...

Nacho or mollie: Let's start with the GrayFoxx read. Could you please articulate that town read for me?

-TTH

I already explained my feelings on grey fox: I would be more interested in making it a priority read if why he should be a person of interest was highlighted a little more for me

[50 Shades of Purple]

ya' knowwwwww

i'd actually really

love

to hear about that
death stareread

myself

He made a bad push. I called him out on making a bad push, he stopped making a bad push, and then sheeped me on my scumread and stopped giving opinions. Does he think Monkey is town? I don't know, I know Ank doesn't think he's town and yet he continues to let their slot vote MTD. Does either head think MTD is scum? I don't know.

[50 Shades of Purple]

But honestly, I'm not really interested in talking with Nacho really anymore since at best we're just running in circles around each other.

-Ank

You're not interested in talking with me because you refuse to talk with me. Everything that we are talking about refers to opinion of alignment which is subjective which means that it's not as simple as going through an ISO and discovering the answer. The "oh he's more experienced he should know what I'm talking about" is bullshit and frustrating.

[50 Shades of Purple]

Massive, I don't know why Nero is the way he is: he is a generally hot and cold player though, so I generally don't rail against him too hard for making a bad attack because as long as the genuineness is there he's probably just being cold. His scum game is also characterized by him not doing shit, not by him being wrong.

[davesaz]

Y'all are having real trouble keeping track of who the votes are on.

Nero is voting 50 Shades. MonkeyMan is voting Nero. But the discussion is continuing as if they're both on DS. What's up with that?

I'm still on Nero because his current vote on 50 was without explanation, and I want to draw more attention to this because 50 only warrants a ? on Nero's scum list.

[50 Shades of Purple]

50 shades seems the most scummy right now. In risk of sounding OMGUS take a look at 50s original reads on me then look at the current reads on me. Has also pretty much tunnelled mtd all game after disagreeing with an early read MTD made. Also going after inactives to seem like he is still looking for more scum. I think he is picking low hanging fruit that anyone could grab.

MTD is just actively scum hunting in my eyes. The nature of his hunting is coming from a towny perspective.

Still on phone I'm going to give my strongest town read soon.

unvote
vote 50 shades

-another shitty phone post

this is probably why I don't read grey foxx's posts all that closely

[50 Shades of Purple]

I think he thinks that he's an easy target and Mollie's scumread on him is taking advantage of that. I also he (much like Amen) notices that I'm the dominant head at the moment and thus we are not changing our reads in order to follow game flow.

[50 Shades of Purple]

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

VOTE: Death Stare

This implies you KNOW I am town. Only 1 group of people can be certain about other people's alignments and that is scum.

Game over.

hey sthar did you know this post is also town???
I know this post is also town

[50 Shades of Purple]

Nero, this series of posts have been brought to you by Nacho who continues to post more content than you do.

Signed,
Nacho

[50 Shades of Purple]

I'd also be happy if tth talked to me and not just Mollie but I guess I don't matter to anyone :'(

[Death Stare]

But honestly, I'm not really interested in talking with Nacho really anymore since at best we're just running in circles around each other.

-Ank

You're not interested in talking with me because you refuse to talk with me. Everything that we are talking about refers to opinion of alignment which is subjective which means that it's not as simple as going through an ISO and discovering the answer. The "oh he's more experienced he should know what I'm talking about" is bullshit and frustrating.

So these posts don't actually mean anything:

VOTE: Death Stare

Sure, I will sheep Nero.

But sure, lets flash lynch Death Stare.

Scum:

wreurts, Death Stare

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

....

I remember people thinking you were scummy and I thought you had at least 4 votes on you. I actually thought you had more votes than me which is where my disinterest came from.

That's 1/8 of the current posts he has in the thread that has that general thought process behind it, which sounds less impressive than it actually is with the sheer amount of posts he has that is fully dedicated to wgeurts.

There's been enough mentions in the thread about MonkeyMan scumreading this slot across the game that having to ask why I'd think he's townier for switching his vote to me instead of just unvoting wgeurts and sitting on his ass is town is basically nothing but fluff.

BTW, I never responded to this because it's pretty clear now that we're never going to get anywhere with this.

[Death Stare]

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

VOTE: Death Stare

This implies you KNOW I am town. Only 1 group of people can be certain about other people's alignments and that is scum.

Game over.

White Knighting

-Ank

[Aneninen]

I think honestly it's the progression of your read on wguerts that is worrying to me. Unlike Monkey who immediately jumped on, your read has progressed from "hey, maybe they do it differently on someothersite.com" (122) to "I don't like being called bloodthirsty" (201) to "having a guy scum reaction" (334). AND on top of that, you try and tie your earlier wguerts opinion retroactively back into thinking he's scummy (see 525), when none of your earlier interaction with him reads as you thinking he's scummy at all.

Wait-oh. Have I misread Nero so far?
I've checked those posts and his votes. It seems that while he's voting for a player he keeps posting why

another

player is scum instead of giving arguments why the

voted

one is scum. Am I making out things of nothing again?

Spoiler: Nero-mix

Nero Cain: Please elaborate on your Death Stare scum read. I looked back at your activity and I get that you don't like their early "spam" and a few other isolated things, but what overall is giving you a scumread on that slot?

idk...didn't know I was voting him right now.

??? That answer was a pile of pigeon poop. (In other words: as if a player could have only one scumread because it's impossible to vote for multiple players.)

Do you think Wgeurts is scum?

I think its a decent possibility. It could be just that I've played a boatload of games on this site. Yeah, new scum lurking it out is a common thing, new scum playing to newbie standards of play to get a "pass" is a thing¹, scum defending a policy lynchess to get cheap town cred is a thing². I mean, I'm honestly alarmed at how much flak I and Monkey are getting for thinking that could be scum.

I was wondering whether your reads had been changed. But it seems that you call him scum regardless of his posts, activity, passive-ity, anything. Also,
(1) how exactly could a newbie-scum play to "pro-standards"? Show me, where Wguerts suggested us "passing" him.
(2) as if towns never tried to prevent a policy lynch.
(By the way, most of us have never thought that we should policy lynch Wguerts.)

Why are you pretending like I wasn't voting him in 83?

It's a throwaway vote and you spend the whole post talking about how Death Stare is scummy and not wguerts. Are you saying you want us to believe you found wguerts legitimately scummy at this point?

Are you kidding me right now? The first sentence of 83 is me saying why I disliked wegurts post. The only part about DS was the last sentence. I don't think town would misrep me like that. You are also implying that I'm scum but not using your words. None of that comes from town.
massive
dave
sthar
50?
maybe wegurts

Are you scumreading Massive too? Why? Because he scumreads you?

My previous townread on Nero has gone.


50Shades-Mollie (I suppose), 615 –

"I have grey as unsure, nacho had him as town the last time we talked about the game. when we talk, we don't usually talk about mafia of late."

This make sense after all. Wouldn't it be better if you signed your posts?

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

VOTE: Death Stare
This implies you KNOW I am town. Only

1 group of people

can be certain about other people's alignments and that is scum.
Game over.

Okay. What if Monkey is either newb-town who hasn't read the setup at all or the SK if we have one?
@Everyone: discuss, please!

Re: Anen:
"He attacked an easy target but he didn't attack the easiest target": this is a bad point because it assumes scum take the path of lowest resistance every time. This clearly isn't the case, and also lol @ death stare being an easy target.
"He asked me for my games and thus isn't scum": it seemed ridiculous to me that he felt strong enough about fluff in the early game being indicative of scum where he supposedly needed to check your past games to see it was possible for town to fluff that much, especially since no one really was producing content by that point.

Do you have any other reasons for calling MTD scum? For me, it seems to be outdated.
(By the way, MissMarple-ing you gave me a negative result. <––– As if anyone had cared about this piece of information. ^_^)

Massive is town, in my opinion. Because of his recent posts.

[Aneninen]

I can produce fewer posts for a while. My sweetheart has a very bad cold, her needs have a priority over Mafia. I hope I'll have time to cook leek-soup. My leek-soup is much better than my gameplay – especially as for getting rid of a bad cold. ^_^

[50 Shades of Purple]

But honestly, I'm not really interested in talking with Nacho really anymore since at best we're just running in circles around each other.

-Ank

You're not interested in talking with me because you refuse to talk with me. Everything that we are talking about refers to opinion of alignment which is subjective which means that it's not as simple as going through an ISO and discovering the answer. The "oh he's more experienced he should know what I'm talking about" is bullshit and frustrating.

So these posts don't actually mean anything:

VOTE: Death Stare

Sure, I will sheep Nero.

But sure, lets flash lynch Death Stare.

Scum:

wreurts, Death Stare

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

....

I remember people thinking you were scummy and I thought you had at least 4 votes on you. I actually thought you had more votes than me which is where my disinterest came from.

That's 1/8 of the current posts he has in the thread that has that general thought process behind it, which sounds less impressive than it actually is with the sheer amount of posts he has that is fully dedicated to wgeurts.

There's been enough mentions in the thread about MonkeyMan scumreading this slot across the game that having to ask why I'd think he's townier for switching his vote to me instead of just unvoting wgeurts and sitting on his ass is town is basically nothing but fluff.

BTW, I never responded to this because it's pretty clear now that we're never going to get anywhere with this.

I was aware that Monkey had already expressed a view on your slot. I still don't understand how immediately voting your slot after finding reason not to pursue the wg read would be town: sure, it would be logically consistent but you were/are a popular suspicion and if town, an easy mislynch. So, from your perspective, it seems townier to me that Monkey wouldn't pursue the easy lynch despite having a perfect excuse to: pursuing your lynch would end up on some side as null. The only reason I could seehim pursuing your lynch immediately after being town is if you assume he would forget about his suspicion on your slot as scum, which I find unlikely.

[50 Shades of Purple]

I also have no idea why you keep suggesting we aren't going anywhere, why you keep acting like I'm continuously shutting you out: I'm not shutting you out, I continue to make attempts to understand your perspective and better clarify mine. Yes, I'm an aggressive player but so are you so the complaining that we won't ever get anywhere is ????

[50 Shades of Purple]

Anen: Nope, not really. I'm currently contemplating looking closer at grey fox or maybe moving back to death stare but there's something about letting someone lurk out suspicion that leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[50 Shades of Purple]

I also have no idea why you keep suggesting we aren't going anywhere, why you keep acting like I'm continuously shutting you out: I'm not shutting you out, I continue to make attempts to understand your perspective and better clarify mine. Yes, I'm an aggressive player but so are you so the complaining that we won't ever get anywhere is ????

Oh, and announcement to Mollie:

THIS IS NACHO SAYING HE IS AMENABLE TO GREY FOX READ BECAUSE IT MIGHT NOT BE HORRIBLE. THIS IS NACHO SAYING THAT HE IS NOT AMENABLE TO NERO READ BECAUSE IT IS GARBAGE.