Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over

[Count Dooku]

I'm curious about what people think of Lalendra's play. Specifically Dooku, House and NJAC.

I don't agrre with 41. Why didn't I state it right then? Becasue somebody (I think SC) already told her why would a quickhammer be good for the town: the quickhammer is a scumclaim. And 1 townie for 1 scum is a good exchange.
The reason behind her vote in 90 are not very strong... But that is not a big problem, since the 90th post is the very beginning of early-game.
As you (and her and everyone else said) she often uses WIFOM. I cannot do really anything with WIFOMy sentences.
About her case about croboss: Since I think croboss is scum and she says that is just lazy/bad play, I don't agree with her of course.

She is null for me. I found some scummy things, but they are not strong at all, and I like that she is trying to figure out things, she tries to help us.

[House]

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

Is this an admission of scumminess?

This post reads like scum, btw.

If Riabi was town, he'd suspect if I was admitting to being scum. But he knows I'm not scum, so he's asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.

VOTE: Riabi

[House]

I don't agrre with 41. Why didn't I state it right then? Becasue somebody (I think SC) already told her why would a quickhammer be good for the town: the quickhammer is a scumclaim. And 1 townie for 1 scum is a good exchange.

Not always. It depends not only on the two roles involved, but also the two players.

[Count Dooku]

I don't agrre with 41. Why didn't I state it right then? Becasue somebody (I think SC) already told her why would a quickhammer be good for the town: the quickhammer is a scumclaim. And 1 townie for 1 scum is a good exchange.

Not always. It depends not only on the two roles involved, but also the two players.

To make it clear, I didn't really mean that we should do that on purpose, but I have no problem with the early wagon, because the chance of the quickhammer is low + if that happpens that is still not a big loss for us.

[SIR CYANIDE]

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

Is this an admission of scumminess?

This post reads like scum, btw.

If Riabi was town, he'd suspect if I was admitting to being scum. But he knows I'm not scum, so he's asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.

VOTE: Riabi

I hope you know what you're doing the last few posts.

[SIR CYANIDE]

Especially because Riabi didn't join the IC debate.

[pisskop]

you should help us put down House. He is infected with teh scumz.

[Drezi]

<-- In itself, what he said is only fluff, null

What do you mean? What I said is fluff, or what crobosss said?

what croboss said

<-- scummy yes, but we're talking about a new player here so I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt for now.

This is a very bad tactic. You cannot read someone less scummy, only because he is a newbie... First, why are you sure that he has never played a mafia game? Second, reading through the game is actually something, that has nothing to do with experience. What you did here is pretty much defending him with no valid reason.

You can't read someone's actions in their first game the same way, as someone who's played several games. I'm more likely to believe that getting lost "wait guys what's going on" is sincere in his case.

however when it comes to Dooku, in post 185 addressing me, and his question in post 186 it appears that he himself only skimmed the thread at best, and he's not a new player.

Haha . That is all I can say. Could you tell me why do you think that I didn't read the thread? I can help: you don't really think it. You just wanted to throw more and more shit at me.

Oh really? You try to contribute saying that my threat to House "or I WILL vote you" is nonsense, I can't vote someone for being a jerk, when 1) it's obviously sarcasm if you look at the whole context 2) I even EXPLICITLY clarified that it was sarcasm in 178. As for your post 186 we have THREE PAGES discussing the whole IC case, with several detailed explanations and rundowns, reading it would answer every question.

.

<-- end of 185 is true, but croboss saying that is not alignment indicative, it could semijustify a vote more like for PL reasons.

That is clearly not PL reason. Even you said that you think that the end of 185 is true. It is not PL anymore. That is a legit scumread.

I agreed that you shouldn't call yourself bad, because it makes you useless, hard to take seriously or read properly, and lynching such players is PL. New player saying sorry I'm bad, can come from either alignment.

<-- That's a legit point, however.

Okay. Since everything you didn't find legit is legit actually (your reasons against my case were "it is fluff" "it is scummy, but he is a newbie" "I agree with you, but I still think that would be a PL", + there is this last comment where even you stated that it is legit. And you still think that my case is weak?

Yes, you're preying on the easiest target, you compiled a plenty of weak or wrong arguments, and made them all definitive indicators of being scum, while you are guilty of one of those things yourself, and now your defense/plain denying of certain parts, plus automatically attacking me for my observatios, hasn't really convinced me.

[SIR CYANIDE]

you should help us put down House. He is infected with teh scumz.

I don't really have a town read on House but there are plenty of other people who I'd like to put down before considering him.

[Count Dooku]

You can't read someone's actions in their first game the same way, as someone who's played several games. I'm more likely to believe that getting lost "wait guys what's going on" is sincere in his case.

I will tell you a secret: newbie=/= stupid. He can fake everything. And you still didn't tell me, why are you sure that he has never playedmafia games, maybe somewhere else. Another secret: I used this newbie/bad play/low experience card in my first game. I was scum.

What do you mean? What I said is fluff, or what crobosss said?
what croboss said

Okay. You think that is null, I think that is scum. We don't have to agree about everything. And do not misrep me: I am not scumreading him only because of it. I am scumreading him because of various reasons. Take a look at my post, where I answered acryon's question. Bonus: that sentence is in contradiction with this (so one of them cannot be genuine, but I think neither of them is):

I must confess that my reason for the vote on Sir Cyanide was to generate discussion

Oh really? You try to contribute saying that my threat to House "or I WILL vote you" is nonsense, I can't vote someone for being a jerk, when 1) it's obviously sarcasm if you look at the whole context 2) I even EXPLICITLY clarified that it was sarcasm in 178. As for your post 186 we have THREE PAGES discussing the whole IC case, with several detailed explanations and rundowns, reading it would answer every question..

Sarcasm, not sarcasm, I don't care. If you don't really want to do that, why did you said that?
Yes, three pages about IC. But I didn't understand why scum cannot fakeclaim IC. Maybe because English is not my native language. But as you can see in 195, I don't want to force this topic. I will not fakeclaim IC, no matter what. Btw, I thought that we dropped this topic.

New player saying sorry I'm bad, can come from either alignment.

Again this shit. He can fake everything. The same as the first paragraph.

Yes, you're preying on the easiest target, you compiled a plenty of weak or wrong arguments, and made them all definitive indicators of being scum

They are all well justified.

while you are guilty of one of those things yourself

I don't think so. But let's say I am. You are guilty of one of the things you said about me yourself, too. Your reasons to vote me are much more weaker than my reasons to vote croboss. And you have a problem with my weak reasons (they are not weak, but let's say they are weak) when your reasons aren't strong either. So are hypocrite too.

[Count Dooku]

There's a 'you' in the last sentence.

[SIR CYANIDE]

If everyone could give everyone else an update on why their vote is on person [x] and for what reasons, that would be great. I'll start.

My vote is on croboss because of #177. My reasons for this are stated in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6584808, but I'll quote them here:

Yes, which is ridiculous. I agree that it is silly that I came into the game for real on page 8 and had little to comment on other than a pile of setup discussion. Only scum gains from that. There should be more pushing for reactions, which town wins from.

While I have you here, do you honestly think 177 comes from scum?

I know this question is probably not directed at me, but I have rarely seen more obvscum. Lets take a look:

(you guys post wayyy too much i can hardly catch up)

Disinterested. Doesn't feel like reading all of the text and is justifying it here. You can easily catch up, it's just a matter of reading the words. It's not a difficult concept.

Who actually claimed IC?

Nobody claimed IC, which he doesn't know because he only skimmed through the topic and saw a lot of IC this IC that.

I can't find it where someone actually claimed?

Because he didn't even search, reading any post what-so-ever would tell him that. Because I'm a lazy piece of shit as well in general I know this tactic and it's one I often employ myself.

House: I feel like he knows what he's doing and is smart about it, but he's also seems authoritative and gets angered fairly easily.

A random comment, he was going to 'post his thoughts' and after all those pages this is the only thing he comes up with.

Thats the only person that really stood out to me hopefully I can dig deeper. (haha I guess I'm pretty bad at mafia)

He is not digging deeper, he is once again trying to justify his lack of investment by promising us he will 'dig deeper' (which he probably won't). He finishes it with another justification ('haha im bad at mafia'). Basically this entire post is him apologizing/trying to get away with the fact that he can't be fucked to actually read through the topic and play the god damn game.

Now, there is an

EXTREME

correlation between his behavior and being scum.

[Count Dooku]

My vote is on croboss.
185 and 219

[Drezi]

newbie=/= stupid. He can fake everything. I used this newbie/bad play/low experience card in my first game. I was scum.

You having done the same thing would explain why you think this is the case now aswell. I'm not saying he's stupid or that he can't be scum. I think I made it clear that I believe it's simply not alignment indicative. That means what you're saying is possible, but not the only explanation, like you seem to think.
^
And this is the exactly my problem.

And you have a problem with my weak reasons

NOT that they are weak, but the fact that you're portraying everything as definite evidence, and not looking at the problem from every perspective.

[Count Dooku]

NOT that they are weak, but the fact that you're portraying everything as definite evidence, and not looking at the problem from every perspective.

The same applies to you.

[Count Dooku]

You having done the same thing would explain why you think this is the case now aswell. I'm not saying he's stupid or that he can't be scum. I think I made it clear that I believe it's simply not alignment indicative. That means what you're saying is possible, but not the only explanation, like you seem to think.
^
And this is the exactly my problem.

Okay. It looks like were are looking at this game in a different way. Maybe because I used the same things as croboss in my first game, where I was scum. I can understand you pov. But I am mistrustful, because of my earlier experiences about the post that are similar to his posts.

[Riabi]

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

Is this an admission of scumminess?

This post reads like scum, btw.

If Riabi was town, he'd suspect if I was admitting to being scum. But he knows I'm not scum, so he's asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.

VOTE: Riabi

Wait... what? I *DO* think you're scum, that's why I'm voting you.

To answer Cynide's post, my reasons for the above are that in post 52, I felt like he was trying to talk Drezi out of voting for deathfisario. That feels like buddying.
Now, more recently, 235 is just odd. As I said, it feels like he's trying to convince everyone that he's town, and it seem odd that someone who actually *IS* town would feel the need to do that.
Then his OMGUS vote in 251 sort of seals the deal for me.

[SIR CYANIDE]

and it seem odd that someone who actually *IS* town would feel the need to do that.

I really don't think that's odd. Doesn't everyone feel the need to convince people they are not scum (and thus automatically that they're town)? #235 isn't that odd, it would have been odd if daycop was an option. And yeah, he has been buddying a bit but so what? Disagreeing/agreeing with people isn't scum.

I don't think we should be voting house. People I'd like to see lynched:

1. croboss
2. deathfisario
3. victordeangelo

#1 being most wanted, #3 being 3rd-most-wanted.

[Riabi]

No, I don't feel the need to convince people I'm town. I simply scumhunt, and I'll defend myself if someone calls me out on what they perceive to be scummy behavior, but I'm not going to claim town, not this early. Why should someone need to this early? Most of the people in this game ARE town. And, buddying and agreeing/disagreeing with someone are not the same thing. My problem with House's behavior at that point was that he was calling Drezi out for doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing early in the game, and for seemingly no reason. Just "hey, that's a bad read". But, with as little go on as we had at that point, pressure is important, and reactions to it are what we base reads off of. House's reaction to my pressure has only solidified my read of him.

As for your read on croboss. Yeah, he looks scummy, I'll admit, but I'm not convinced your case against him is any stronger than my case against House is. I can see croboss' behavior as being just a lazy town player.

[NJAC]

@Riabi: Why did you ask about Lalendra, specifically to House, Dooku and me. What's your follow up after our answers?

[Count Dooku]

@Riabi: Why did you ask about Lalendra, specifically to House, Dooku and me. What's your follow up after our answers?

@Riabi Also, why didn't you answer it before? NJAC has already asked it...

[House]

Wait... what? I *DO* think you're scum, that's why I'm voting you.

To answer Cynide's post, my reasons for the above are that in post 52,

1

I felt like he was trying to talk Drezi out of voting for deathfisario. That feels like buddying.

2

Now, more recently, 235 is just odd. As I said, it feels like he's trying to convince everyone that he's town, and it seem odd that someone who actually *IS* town would feel the need to do that.

3

Then his OMGUS vote in 251 sort of seals the deal for me.

1) Talking somebody out of voting for someone else isn't buddying, it's white knighting. Get your buzz words right.
2) How is telling somebody that I am town without giving any sort of town case an attempt to convince them I'm town? That shit happens all the time across all the games from many different players. This is reachy as fuck.
3) Learn what OMGUS means. A vote with a case is not OMGUS.

[acryon]

I'm curious about what people think of Lalendra's play. Specifically Dooku, House and NJAC.

I don't agrre with 41. Why didn't I state it right then? Becasue somebody (I think SC) already told her why would a quickhammer be good for the town: the quickhammer is a scumclaim. And 1 townie for 1 scum is a good exchange.

This is far from always being true.

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

Is this an admission of scumminess?

This post reads like scum, btw.

If Riabi was town, he'd suspect if I was admitting to being scum. But he knows I'm not scum, so he's asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.

VOTE: Riabi

This seems very loose.

@Those voting croboss:
Explain to me how he is not just lynchbait?

[NJAC]

@Those voting croboss:
Explain to me how he is not just lynchbait?

I don't know, maybe you should vote him to find out. What do you say?

I still like my vote where he is, and croboss has some questions to answer.

[Nobody Special]

Hi. How's everybody doing?