Butcher, Baker, Pastry-Maker Mafia - Dogged

[Shadow Dancer]

So I think most people will agree with me when I say that staying in the background and trying not to draw attention is more likely to come from scum than town, as they don't want people scrutinizing them.

When I'm scum, I don't lurk much but tend to try to put myself seem 'above suspicion', by making good arguments without any points that could be used against me, and by trying to let the town actually push the wagons I want more than I do myself- usually by suggesting that people are suspicious without actually saying it myself, by asking obviously accusatory questions or implying that they're scum through descriptions of their play instead of actually explicitly stating that "they're scum for X reason(s)".

So I am showing two kinds of behaviour, which are basically contradicting each other, but which are both scummy ? Could you at least be precise about where I allegedly do either of those ?
Furthermore, saying my points against UT are minor does not really cut it. What makes you think they are minor ? Is the game already too advanced for you to be bothered by minor ? How is his weird, contradicting changing of his read on me, which he refuses to explain, or his massive amount of active lurking not at least a signal to be wary of his motivations here ?

[Toon Fighter]

Don't really like the composition of SD's wagon (UT and Nik and NS are on it) but at the same time he does look like a good choice for today's lynch. Will not join the wagon now because reasons, but if we get closer to DL, I can consider voting or hammering.

In other news, NS continues badposting and voting for shitty reasons, so I feel that is a better place to place my vote for now. I mean, do an ISO if you need, but there is little more than trolling and uselessness in him. His SD vote (372) seems like pure bandwagoning with a flimsy excuse, so if SD flips town NS is a place to look. So:

unvote, vote: Nobody Special

[Untrod Tripod]

NS continues badposting and voting for shitty reasons

this your first game with NS?

[Toon Fighter]

That I remember, yeah

[Untrod Tripod]

yeah, this is actually pretty proactive for him

[dramonic]

If SD flips scum TF needs to get shot.

[Toogeloo]

If SD flips scum TF needs to get shot.

SD @ L-2, you think a scum buddy would be openly hesitant about his involvement in the wagon? I'd actually say it's more likely the other way around. If SD flips town, TF should probably be shot.

[Toon Fighter]

So I should be shot either way, that's what you're saying?

[Shadow Dancer]

No, he is just saying the opposite of dram. In reality both ways of reasoning are just inconclusive WIFOM, though, and ignore the actually interesting point, which is: How come you agree with me about the people on my waggon (I'd rather point towards Per than Nik right now, but that's only because Nik's claim is pretty credible as coming from town), yet still manage to call it a good waggon? The term fence sitting acquires a whole new dimension this way.

And how does NS being slightly less and just marginal and useless in this game than usual refute the point that his recent activity is scummy, Untrod ?

[Shadow Dancer]

Actually, add dram to the list of suspect people. He's also surfing on my waggon without any reasoning of his own and overall his post history is but a bunch of little nothings and commentary snippets about entirely unimportant things from the side line.

[Toon Fighter]

I didn't say it was a good wagon. I said you were a good choice for the lynch. The wagon is bad, it's members suck. That is why I am reluctant to join it, even though I think you would be a good lynch for today. If there were other players there and/or we were closer to deadline, I'd be there already. But we still have a week left and I'd much rather hear from NS (who might be just a bad player, but I think he can provide more content than he already has in this game) than put you at L-1 at this point.

[Gammagooey]

So I think most people will agree with me when I say that staying in the background and trying not to draw attention is more likely to come from scum than town, as they don't want people scrutinizing them.

When I'm scum, I don't lurk much but tend to try to put myself seem 'above suspicion', by making good arguments without any points that could be used against me, and by trying to let the town actually push the wagons I want more than I do myself- usually by suggesting that people are suspicious without actually saying it myself, by asking obviously accusatory questions or implying that they're scum through descriptions of their play instead of actually explicitly stating that "they're scum for X reason(s)".

So I am showing two kinds of behaviour, which are basically contradicting each other, but which are both scummy ? Could you at least be precise about where I allegedly do either of those ?
Furthermore, saying my points against UT are minor does not really cut it. What makes you think they are minor ? Is the game already too advanced for you to be bothered by minor ? How is his weird, contradicting changing of his read on me, which he refuses to explain, or his massive amount of active lurking not at least a signal to be wary of his motivations here ?

I don't think you've lurked, at least not to any noticably scummy degree, that was just a starting point for explaining my read on you and why I have it. I will make a post quoting where you've implied that UT is scum instead of just saying it but it won't be until tonight.

I'm not and never did say that your points against UT are minor, although I would probably agree with that statement because I think you attacking him so hard for what seems to be him calling your early post bad but not necessarily in a scummy way and being dickish are both not scumtells at all. (and I really dislike how hypocritical it is for you to be attacking UT for being a dick while going off on me for having not played with you before and therefore not having a solid grasp of your play, when your argument on UT is largely based on HIS playstyle.)

"minor" was referring to the behavioral points that I think suggest that you could be town.

[Untrod Tripod]

yeah or he's grasping at straws and just sort of throwing out whatever sorta makes sense at the time

[xRECKONERx]

Kise still needs die now plz

[Untrod Tripod]

reck I just

I can't

caring about your dick waving prick fight just isn't something I want to do right now

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Cheetory

Might just as well do this alphabetically for a start ;

also, I have no idea who this person even is, so time to figure it out.

@mod: Has Cheetory been prodded? He only has three posts, and the last one's from last week.

You met in a warm French bakery on a cool spring day, got to know him, from toppings to fillings, and then noticed he was gone, so asked the baker where your favorite pastry had gone?

[Shadow Dancer]

I'm not and never did say that your points against UT are minor, although I would probably agree with that statement because I think you attacking him so hard for what seems to be him calling your early post bad but not necessarily in a scummy way and being dickish are both not scumtells at all. (and I really dislike how hypocritical it is for you to be attacking UT for being a dick while going off on me for having not played with you before and therefore not having a solid grasp of your play, when your argument on UT is largely based on HIS playstyle.)

Nonono. I am neither attacking him for being the obvious prick (i.e. playstyle), apart from the fact that his "playstyle" and rude comments have definitely proven to poison discussion rather than drive it so far. In short: I would not mind his being an arse if he actually were an effective arse. But right now, look at his iso, he is has the largest post count in this game, but that's really the most positive thing that can be said about his impact on this game.

And my point about his earlier read on me is not so much about his earlier attacking my post any more, you are absolutely right, that may have been an absolutely minor thing to begin with, and I asked him initially to clear that up ; no, what really pings my scumdar is the fact that instead of simply explaining his read (which would have been a trivial matter if he were actually town an genuine) he instead keeps refusing to do so and make discrediting comments in my direction instead. Granted, having himself established as a jerk is also a nice cover for that, but it does not justify it in the least, nor does it explain it on its own.

"minor" was referring to the behavioral points that I think suggest that you could be town.

Wait, so now you are suggesting I am town? I need to reread later, I think I am not quite following something here...

[Shadow Dancer]

VOTE: Cheetory

Might just as well do this alphabetically for a start ;

also, I have no idea who this person even is, so time to figure it out.

@mod: Has Cheetory been prodded? He only has three posts, and the last one's from last week.

You met in a warm French bakery on a cool spring day, got to know him, from toppings to fillings, and then noticed he was gone, so asked the baker where your favorite pastry had gone?

Seriously, I am not even sure what to tell here. Look at this guy. Has he nothing more urgent to do than trying witty about my marginal interactions with Cheetory?

[Untrod Tripod]

Nonono. I am neither attacking him for being the obvious prick (i.e. playstyle), apart from the fact that his "playstyle" and rude comments have definitely proven to poison discussion rather than drive it so far. In short: I would not mind his being an arse if he actually were an effective arse. But right now, look at his iso, he is has the largest post count in this game, but that's really the most positive thing that can be said about his impact on this game.

we have no flips. you know absolutely jack shit about how effective I am/will be

[PeregrineV]

This is the other thing. Questions to discover information of figure things out are good. These do not seem to fall under that category. They look like filler-to-look-active, since they are either pointless or self-answered.

Spoiler: The question of questions

Moin moin,

i think i'm gonna stay away from the kalimar wagon for the time being, L-6 is a bit too close to lynch for page two imo

Why so hesitant ?

VOTE: Kali

The higher the splash, the nicer the ripples...

So therefore,

Vote: Shadow Dancer

Why did you refuse to be arbitrary?

This was the shortest rvs ever.

Interressant...

Was it your vote or mine which ended, according to you, the RVS?

Moin moin,

i think i'm gonna stay away from the kalimar wagon for the time being, L-6 is a bit too close to lynch for page two imo

Why so hesitant ?

VOTE: Kali

The higher the splash, the nicer the ripples...

what if five people simulpost and we accidentally hammer him, wouldn't you feel like super foolish?

You mean, if 6 people simulpost, all vote kali, and all do not check the newest posts before finally sanding in their vote ?

!

Los geht's

Okay, for a start: Who is Shaft? A Kise alt? Or some one else entirely?

If Shaft is indeed Kise, I want him to elaborate on his Reck read ; and ideally explain how he refutes the evidence brought up against his case by Reck.

Reck, are those games you listed in chronological (or any other) order?

guys i think i'm gonna claim ok

i'm gonna do it, i'm really gonna do it!!

What reaction exactly did you hop to provoke with these posts, Nik?

Claiming miller on day one, why haven't you just done it right away?

I don't think his awfulness is necessarily alignment indicative

why do you?

Wirklich?
Now I am curious. After you were so wordy about it, what do you think it was indicative of, and why did you consider it necessary to point it out ?

Shaft, so you cannot actually provide us with an additional game that would back up your claim that you can read Reck like a book?

Reck, what would you reply if I pointed out to you that obviously in your latest scum game with Kise he could actually read you rightly as scum, and that therefore his claim, although obviously suffering from massive confirmation bias concerning the sample size, cannot be regarded as completely ungrounded?

Da wäre noch...

Why does Sprinkled Delight seem to be all Katsuki and no Brian Skies at all?

tn, what ever became of your Toog read ? Seems to have dropped right out of sight. Did it change ?

[PeregrineV]

Could you elaborate a bit, just so we can actually finally get some fruitful discussion going off my waggon?

You asked me to elaborate on why I voted you. See 415 and 419.

[Gammagooey]

Nonono. I am neither attacking him for being the obvious prick (i.e. playstyle), apart from the fact that his "playstyle" and rude comments have definitely proven to poison discussion rather than drive it so far. In short: I would not mind his being an arse if he actually were an effective arse. But right now, look at his iso, he is has the largest post count in this game, but that's really the most positive thing that can be said about his impact on this game.

Shadow this is an exact quote from you attacking UT associating him being scummy with him insulting people.

I see why you can overlook Untrod's scumminess so easily, at least. He is making a habit out of outright insulting people, he is clearly not concerned what any one things, right? If you want I can swear at you some more, I can do that. Stands to question whether you'd actually prefer this game sliding down the slope to total piss-offery, I'd definitely rather avoid it.

And this is an instance of exactly what I'm talking about with describing someone else's play and implying that it's scummy in the hopes that other people will go along with it without actually bothering to go into any detail on why it's scummy or how them saying that is a scumtell/makes them scum.

Seriously, I am not even sure what to tell here. Look at this guy. Has he nothing more urgent to do than trying witty about my marginal interactions with Cheetory?

HEY RECK AND SHAFT for a couple of real-life days starting game-day tomorrow I'll sheep whichever of you actually gets off your ass and helps UT and I actually lynch scum today.

[Seraphim]

Fuck, I'll bite.

Unvote
Vote: SD

That's L-1, I believe.

[Untrod Tripod]

you're not Reck or Kise

[Untrod Tripod]

I also love how Shadow keeps saying I'm insulting people when I called him a stupid motherfucker like, one time

he's done a whole HELL of a lot more insulting of my play that I ever did of him or anyone else