Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

[Drezi]

can you talk about your reads and thoughts on the game outside of the 5 or so people you've mentioned in your posts this game?

Nope, I'll continue to post as I see fit.

[Kagami]

@Kagami, specifically:

what are your thoughts on thdg?

Busy, but I assume thdg town from GiF's assertion.

[zMuffinMan]

Nope, I'll continue to post as I see fit.

Are you an alt or have you played on a site other than mafiascum before? If the latter, can you link me to some of your town and scum games?

[zMuffinMan]

The problem is I don't have any basis for comparison to be absolutely certain that the way you're playing is more likely to come from you as scum, but everything you're doing feels really mechanical - like you're just picking things out and commenting on them in a perfunctory way because you're not actually interested in figuring out anyone's alignment, you're just interested in pushing an agenda and trying to appear like you're providing content here and there.

I think you're scum and nothing you're saying is changing my mind.

Vote: Drezi

[SB]

UNVOTE: pieguyn
VOTE: Sky_Paladin

I kept drawing parallels between this Sky's play in this game and AUS Mafia, where his play was incredibly reactionary and he started pushing bizarro scumbuddy pairs just for tenuous reasons which is exactly what he's doing here. It doesn't read like he found scum/scum interactions that he believes in, it reads like he's trying to overjustify the scumread and he's trying to make everyone who pressed him look awkward when realistically a theoretical 5 man scumteam (or a large portion of it) isn't form the Ultimate Mafia Voting Block on Sky just because he pressed one of their buddies. Saying "oh I think scum is in [large chunk of the playerlist]" is also completely useless unless you're a Sensor.

I'm uncomfortable with Drezi because while I think his content was very safe and I can't really tell what he's thinking aside from Rylai and Muffin being scummy? And while I understood the general sentiments behind the suspicion Rylai it felt like he was grasping to find a problem with every thought he brought up (mainly his comments on Dan and randomletters) and when Muffin asks for reads he turns him down when I don't think there's a valid reason to either.

With Sakura, I pretty much agree with Kagami's #312 and I'm interested why Sky's recent post motivated her to make the Serenes vote (and the vote for me, never mind that I think they're both for terrible reasons) when I don't see anything new about Serenes that Sky brought up? Aside from associative reads (which Sakura said she didn't understand) it was just a rehash as far as his Serenes suspicion so the sudden voteswitch to there after Sky's post doesn't actually make sense.

I don't really suspect pie anymore. It feels like they stepped up and their explanation of why they were torn on Sakura came across as genuine waffling rather than something she faked. Also townreading GIF, Muffin, Dan, Shadowh, thdg and Kilga. I have a couple of weaker reads (like Serenes now they sort of vanished) but I'm not really confident in them so shrug.

[Ankamius]

Spoiler: Quotestripe

Problem Slots

What does this actually mean?

It means they're not scummy enough to be a significant scumread, but they're very unlikely to be a town read in the near future.

I am going to shoot you Ankamius.

you will be DEAD

Go ahead and kill me. It would be a waste of your team's shot.

Lily reading Ankamius' latest posts, along with The Relentless' post, made Lily think and look again at Ankamius because Lily had honestly forgotten that Ankamius was in the game!

Ankamius do you want to expand on why Kilgamayan is a problem player.

Lily thinks that Ankamius should also expand on their thoughts about everyone they find relevant!
Lily tried looking through Ankamius' posts and Lily found nothing that resembled an opinion in Ankamius' posts other than The Relentless being scum for some reason that Lily doesn't see being explained and a few townreads that are also not explained!
Lily doesn't like that Ankamius prods other players continuously throughout the game to explain their reads while never doing this himself!

I explain my reads when I think they need to be explained; I'm a lot less concerned about it right now since I'm still sorting half of the playerlist out.

is there any reason you guys (read: just Kilgamayan and Shadoweh) are opposed to double-lynching on day 1

I would personally like the glory of lynching a scumread + lurker lynch at the same time

if we get two strong wagons that aren't outright competing then it's an even better idea

This post along with the other two I quoted in this post are more reasons why I'm scumreading this slot. Having multiple lynches day 1 is chaotic and keeps town from being focused; it actually reduces information too since there's much less chance of people having to compromise on slots. Being so intensely concerned with a scumread from me to immediately threaten to shoot me when he has no mention whatsoever of me beforehand isn't impressive.

Oh my god. No one is going to read that.

Can you sum it up for me? I'm not reading it either.

I didn't read SkyP's post! though skimming it it seems like moonlogic was employed!

I'm kind of baffled by this attitude. I'd understand it if it was Sky walling constantly failing to compress his thoughts and by the third or at least second wall he ends up like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" and you just sigh and skip/skim his content. That is not the case here however and some people like pie have written a lot more words so far, and you have no problem reading that apparently. Is the fact that for Sky it's under a single post such a concern?

I don't read wallposts as a general rule unless I have a specific reason, and those are hard to come by. They take forever to read if you want to really analyze them and there's way too many words for a simple skim to get anywhere with them.

Nope, I'll continue to post as I see fit.

Are you an alt or have you played on a site other than mafiascum before? If the latter, can you link me to some of your town and scum games?

The problem is I don't have any basis for comparison to be absolutely certain that the way you're playing is more likely to come from you as scum, but everything you're doing feels really mechanical - like you're just picking things out and commenting on them in a perfunctory way because you're not actually interested in figuring out anyone's alignment, you're just interested in pushing an agenda and trying to appear like you're providing content here and there.

I think you're scum and nothing you're saying is changing my mind.

Vote: Drezi

I don't like this.

[Ankamius]

I like ActionDan as town too now. I forgot to mention that.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't like this.

go on...

[Ankamius]

It nags at me to see someone ask a question, spend 3 lines expanding that question when it's not needed, then just coming out with a statement that bypasses it entirely. It feels manufactured.

[zMuffinMan]

I wasn't expanding the question, I was pointing out why I asked.

I'm no seeing what you think I "bypassed". Are you saying you think there's some sort of contradiction in what I wrote?

[Ankamius]

It's just about the same thing; doesn't change the overall point.

And yes, there is an issue with it. You started by posting things to try to figure him out, then immediately after posted in a way that looks like you were already making your mind up. Why did you post your thoughts in that order?

[zMuffinMan]

You started by posting things to try to figure him out, then immediately after posted in a way that looks like you were already making your mind up

I had an exchange with him that ended with him refusing to talk about his reads. The question I asked him was specifically because he was around and I wanted to see how genuine he could be in his thoughts without time to manufacture a response, but he shrugged it off. I'd already made up my mind that he was scum at this point (and I think he shrugged it off because he does need time to manufacture his reads, and potentially also because he didn't want to possibly hinder his scum mates by giving rushed fake reads that could implicate them). I then asked for meta because I want to make sure that what I'm seeing as scummy in his posts isn't a playstyle thing. I then read over his ISO once more and posted what I posted with a vote.

[Ankamius]

Ok, I can see that being the case.

[Sakura Hana]

What did you actually agree with?

The points about "stronger" and "weaker" votes that he put up against Serene, I also agreed about the weak reasonings for vote changing on both cases. Will be checking the meta myself as well soon... when I remember my MotK account (Since it's been 5 years since i last was there when i was messing up with Danmakufu)
I disagree with the points against pie

[Sakura Hana]

(Since it's been 5 years since i last was there when i was messing up with Danmakufu)

Huh, seems like my email isn't even there anymore, i wonder if there was a change or smth, well just made a new one anyways.

[Sakura Hana]

.
.
.
Ok, after checking the meta... what the hell? that meta's just about useless =/
He's joked about busing half the time as scum and half the time as town (66% as town if you count the self vote joke "Next-Level Busing" lol'd)

Unvote: SB

Vote: Rylai

I still agree about Serenes tho.

[Sakura Hana]

In fact, now that makes me even MORE suspicious of Serenes, since he's the one that brough the busing joke to begin with at the start.

[Sakura Hana]

I just realized SkyPal also mentioned this 50% town/scum busing joke ratio... i really need to pay more attention when reading through walls while half asleep @_@

[Drezi]

The question I asked him was specifically because he was around and I wanted to see how genuine he could be in his thoughts without time to manufacture a response ... and I think he shrugged it off because he does need time to manufacture his reads

Oh no, this is being so disingenuous.

We've already had a

very

similar exchange in 342 & 346, and I clearly told him I wouldn't force any reads that are still shaping up, yet he once again pushed that question, only to use it to further his case on me.

I think you're scum and nothing you're saying is changing my mind.

Vote: Drezi

Yeah, the wolf has been going around me in circles of a while, and now is jumping at my throat at last, but for some reason that's ok for him to do, while he's holding this against me:

(Not to mention he was setting up for that vote for since his previous post, which is part of why I think it sounds a little forced

I clearly said that I'd wait and see in 341, I guess waiting for further developments before deciding on a vote is something that's scummy only when done by me.

I don't feel my vote is in a wrong place atm, but definitely

FoS muffin

.

[Drezi]

^ and that's because I can potentially still see him as an overzealous townie, while Rylai still hasn't made an attempt at sorting anything out.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm wondering why you never brought up your meta despite him asking for it?

[zMuffinMan]

I clearly told him I wouldn't force any reads that are still shaping up

Just to be clear... You're telling me that you don't actually have any other reads or thoughts, and this is why you aren't giving them?

waiting for further developments before deciding on a vote is something that's scummy only when done by me

That's not what I meant at all, though. I was explaining that the reason you added stuff that made it sound forced is because you were setting up for it. The AD point you brought up in particular felt like you were trying to mold the information to fit the conclusion (that you had been setting up for). The way I see it, you were waiting to see whether you could feasibly make a case out of Rylai's next post, and then you attempted to make everything he said look scummy. Which comes across as forcing the issue, rather than analysing the information before you.

I suppose you could argue that I have been doing the same, though you'd have to justify exactly where you think I'm forcing my reads.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok i just went over Madoka and Medical Mafia again just to be sure, but Drezi's town.

[zMuffinMan]

I clearly told him I wouldn't force any reads that are still shaping up

Also this isn't actually what you said at all, and I just realised you never actually responded to what I said after that in 347

Ok i just went over Madoka and Medical Mafia again just to be sure, but Drezi's town.

Link

[Serenes Forest]

Just a heads up I probably won't have as much time as I expected to play. This is gonna continue for at least the next 2 months and while I could postpone it I really shouldn't, so idk if I'll manage to keep playing catch-up for long

With that out of the way I don't think Dan has even made posts like these before, like holy shit. I really like his #458 because I had the same thoughts about Kagami's vote timing when reading through the Sakura/Pie/Kagami exchange. I specially don't like the way Kagami voted first and explained later only after being prodded for it, it feels like they forced a conclusion early because they were actively participating in the conversation and were looking to match pie's growing suspicion. Outside of that 90% of their posts are some variant of setupspec, mod meta or the like which is easy stuff to comment on as scum to mask noncontent and appear active.

##Vote: Kagami

Also disliking Sakura because she's actively posting but extremely passive, I can only recall her posting when it's in reply to people's thoughts about her or questions she's being asked, and both of her scumreads (me, Rylai) seem to come up only after being pressured to voice an opinion by people pushing her for answers on very specific questions (muffin's 321 and pie's 420) while ignoring more general ones (mine in 285). She also seems to have switched onto voting scumreads after relentless called her out on using her votes to seal day abilities instead of voting who she thinks is scum so her whole game comes across as passive and reactionary. MS people should probably let me know if this is her usual thing.

I'm pretty sure Relentless has read/played games in MotK before and he's just fucking with everyone for the fun of it, Shadoweh meta, SB = serious bananas and asking things to Dan before everyone else (because he barely posts at all when playing in MotK) can't all be coincidences sorry :V
That said I really don't like his playstyle and could count the amount of times he's said stuff I agreed with in one hand but eh, his #374 and #447 do read genuine, specifically the questions aimed at SB, Rylai and Shadoweh, so I just kinda hope he drops the threats/aggressive attitude in general because there are other ways to exert pressure and it just makes him harder to read.

My point against thdg earlier doesn't stand anymore seeing I missed his #253, ultimately think he's like 90% town but I still don't agree with his reads on me or Pie.
@thdg wrt your "can't read the future" stuff in #245 and #399 I did restate my reason for dropping SB in #67 after your #65, but the originally stated reason is there in #47 so I don't see how you couldn't have understood why I unvoted SB

I figure you'd doublecheck your meta references as scum considering you've spent long periods of time looking for games where you haven't bussed your buddies to reference in other games so
eh

Still think SB is town, for more "SB wouldn't be this careless as scum" Skypal should read through the first page on SCP mafia and see how he reacted to early votes on him as scum there. If SB were scum this game do you think he'd panic in response to an ED1 vote and make up meta stuff that doesn't exist considering that I could check it easily and very much implied that I would? If so how would that response make sense with both of us being scum?
Currently agree with Shadoweh that Skypal is probably Confirmation Biased As Shit because all of his reads revolve around himself and his vote and there doesn't seem to be any thought going on towards the rest of the game.

Don't really have a solid opinion on Rylai, I think he's more likely town than not based on how he replied to stuff relatively early in 366 and 409 instead of lurking for a third of the phase before doing so but reading activity patterns in 8 day phases is pretty useless when we're used to 72h

General impressions
Town: thdg = GiF >> Dan
Minor Town: SB = Kilga = Mala >> Pie
Dunno (need more posts): Rylai, Drezi, notscience, Ankamius, Gaiden, Shadoweh
Dunno (can't get a proper read despite content): Relentless, Muffin, Skypal
Scum: Kagami >> Sakura

cut by like a whole page of posts