13p Normal [TM2015]

[SleepyKrew]

and his insistence that he shouldn't be town read at this point actually makes me think he's town more.

I'd probably be doing it as scum too

Alright, back to lurking.

[Boonskiies]

Lying about tokens would require the entire team to either lie or keep their mouth shut. Before I even knew alignment I didn't want to say anything about our tokens.

I kind of hate this argument.

Especially since

Someone on the team has a higher chance of using scum tokens (which, may I remind you, doesn't guarantee scum)

Refusing to discuss it tends to strongly suggest that at least one of you went scum though.

became:

paired with the token thing.

part of the reason Jason is scum

The odds that Jason's team is not talking about token use because Jason used tokens to get scum and because of it Jason actually rolled scum...actually not that high.

sthar8

: I'm not trying to be critical but is there something else to your pie read than her attacks on you?

Deltawave

: At some point I thought at least one of {Deltawave, Thor} was scum which was perhaps somewhat biased. I'm not sure where I currently stand on DeltaWave. All the stuff about me is useless to me so I would love to hear more about things like:

Scumpool - Boon, STD, Pie

Why pie and is this still true

Who else do you think is scum

What your opinion on Jason is since you seem to have none

Boonskiies

: his entire line of questioning for 407 411 413 and 414 kind of looks like scum trying to push the lynch on me further with a crap argument especially considering it came after he was reminded of my list

Spoiler: Ninja Mafia

Xiao Long - null

Varsoon - town. I like how he's playing, even if I did feel a little tunneled.

Goblin - he's just hot headed townie.

Drake Crusader - null
Konowa - This could be the 3rd scum. I felt a little buddy-buddy with him and Thor; didn't scum read until Thor flipped goon.
Boonskiies - super town.

Zebulin - I think he's town. He hasn't been posting much, and I agree that I looked easily scummy, and for him to go on me was a super town move.

acryon - scum. He isn't voting me because he thinks I'm scum. I don't see a possibility where he is town. I get why town would vote me, but this isn't coming from a town perspective.

orcinus_theoriginal - town for now, but the explanation I said earlier could come back up.

BlueBloodedToffee - super town. listen to this guy.

gamsimbre - null

Here's a game with 5 townreads (6 if you include himself )

Guess 6 really is the magic number

jason

: I seem to recall saying I would try to justify my town read

49: The questions he ask seem legit
60: His response to thor's attack seems genuine like "okay w/e dude." I think it would be difficult as scum to justify a case on SK ignoring the thing he's currently being pushed for by someone I think that's more of a town mindset. I agreed with his point on Micc.
161: I don't remember if I mentioned this or not It's interesting to note that SK deserves a vote while Delta a prodding though I think he called SK out a little more.
173: I suppose this is null, this is probably how a scum should treat an early wagon against them to appear town and make it less legit but it could be town actually not bothered by the wagon against them
178: While I'm not sure I would follow onto his initial push onto boon, dismissing the case as 'creative fluff' is odd. The response seems genuine.

I guess there's a lot of gut

I also disagree with pretty much every point of the case against jason I've seen brought up. I don't think RVS was telling, I don't think his attack on Boonskiies looks like trying to hose a village idiot, I don't think the tokens mean anything they're really distracting and easy to attack.

Trojan Horse

:
Every post just seems to bother me :/

Thor

:

Ceph would like to know if ffery is reading this game.

This is flawed. That's not a Day 1 reads list.

[Boonskiies]

@Egg - where is it what you asked again?

[Boonskiies]

Boon, Cheet says you self meta'd quite a bit in your scum game with him. The Burning?

Yeah. I don't think I have a game on this site where I haven't used self-meta. I'm pretty sure I went over this...haha.

[Boonskiies]

I did it as town enough where I got in trouble for borderline Trust Telling.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.9:

jasonT1981 (3)-

Thor665, Fenchurch, SleepyKrew

Thor665 (2)-

pieguyn, Save The Dragons

Boonskiies (1)-

jasonT1981

Egg (1)-

sthar8

Save the Dragons (1)-

Deltawave

Trojan Horse (1)-

Boonskiies

Not Voting (4)-

Egg, Malakittens, Trojan Horse, Micc,

The deadline is at 6pm on Tuesday 14th April 2015. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Apologies for the pieguyn prod - it has been revoked due to my inability to be useful.

Malakittens is v/la until 8th April

[Save The Dragons]

Boon:

I'll admit I didn't check the date. It just seems odd to me that you think it's entirely impossible for someone to put 6 people into a town pile.

Here's a readslist from AU Final Fantasy where I put half the town into a "town, would not vote" pile on day 1. The only difference is I specified "lean town" on some which I didn't do in this game. (was town in that game ftr)

Spoiler:

1. ActionDan
I don't know, I could vote

2. ArcAngel9
Arg I think I'm headed town, probably not this lynch

3. dainn (fferyllt/konowa)
town not voting

4. Desperado
leaning town, wouldn't vote today

5. Empking
I could vote

6. GuyInFreezer
town, not voting today

7. House
town, not voting today

8. Katsuki
I have no clue anymore.

9. LostPatience
I would vote, probably not happening though?

10. MattP
I don't know, leaning town though so maybe another day

11. Metal Sonic
I don't know, would vote

12. My Milked Eek
I don't know, would vote

13. ooba
town, not voting

14. PeregrineV
I don't know, probably wouldn't vote

15. Saki
would vote

16. Save The Dragons
this bastard is always scum, don't listen to his lies

17. Seelie Seraph (Tammy/Natirasha)
wouldn't vote

18. Serene2 (kuribo/DrippingGoofball/Fakegod)
town, wouldn't vote

19. SnowStorm
i don't know, but leaning town.

20. Sweenz
i don't know, leaning town.

21. Taylor Swift (notscience/Nachomamma8)
town, no vote.

22. Flipping Awesome (F-16_Fighting_Falcon/penguin_alien) Teen Heat
I was townread Teen Heat before it was cool (I don't know why). no vote

23. Juls The Goat
unsure, would vote

I'm not saying "omg look at my town meta" but I am saying your post looks more like "I'm going to put something on this person who's garnered negative attention" more than "I really think this is legitimately scummy" and that concerns me.

[Boonskiies]

I still don't like it. Not my fault. I think it's easily scummy on Day 1 to town read a lot of people, because it doesn't have a lot of merit. You can easily switch the read, but get credit because people like that you town read them.

[Save The Dragons]

Okay so reading the post where I responded to egg and the post where I pointed out my reads to Delta which reads do you think are false? If all, please hint as to why.

Why is 6 so many? What number is acceptable to you?

[jasonT1981]

I don't see an issue in how many town reads anyone has. POE.. go after scum reads, the more town reads you have, the better it helps you pin point your scum reads

the only ones worried about people having too many town reads should be scum, as it narrows the potential lynch pool

[jasonT1981]

But I'm sure that quote from you was *not* based on calling him scummy for playstyle.

I said his mentality of hammering town reads is a liability and I stand by that.

Who has motive to hammer someone coming across as town?

I'll give you a hint, but its really not hard for anyone to work out? - It's not anyone on the town side of things.

It is not a play style attack, its an attack on actions I believe are scum and not of town.

If someone is willing to hammer someone coming across as town... that is scum right there.

[SleepyKrew]

Didn't he say he's done that as town before? Didn't it come up because he was defending his playstyle? You're making it seem like he said "I'm going to hammer my townreads in *this*game".

[jasonT1981]

I referenced a meta where he boasted about doing it before, in a game he was scum, identical to how he has done it in this game.

Hold on I'll dig it up.

[SleepyKrew]

I've barely been reading at all, but it looks like Thor pointed out that your issue with Boon is in fact playstyle, and this has thrown you off.

[jasonT1981]

this is a scum game where he boasts of the exact same hammering of town reads

Also they say they think I'm playing towards my scum meta

yet are bringing up me using self meta, which is a very town meta thing I do

. My team doesn't agree with me voting Jason. I like causing commotion for the sake of reactions. I believe that should be obvious at this point.

Unvote

BINGO DING DING DING WE HAVE A SCUMMER

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Lots of self meta here, from scum Boon.

And lots of the 'this is what I do as town not scum'

And lookie here from that game

It's self meta. Like how I say that I hammer people at L-1 on Day 1 without much resent when I'm town

And look at this.. exactly the same

Again, hi. Jason...My name is Boonskiies. I'm known to hammer my biggest town read on occasion without letting them claim in a moment's notice. Mainly when I'm town! Me OMGUS'ing is nothing.

Same exact argument used as scum

Eat the fucking noose ASAP. This guy is scum. 100%

Scum game - makes boasts about hammering
this game - boasts of hammering.

It's scum

[jasonT1981]

this is a scum game where he boasts of the exact same hammering of town reads

Also they say they think I'm playing towards my scum meta

yet are bringing up me using self meta, which is a very town meta thing I do

. My team doesn't agree with me voting Jason. I like causing commotion for the sake of reactions. I believe that should be obvious at this point.

Unvote

BINGO DING DING DING WE HAVE A SCUMMER

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Lots of self meta here, from scum Boon.

And lots of the 'this is what I do as town not scum'

And lookie here from that game

It's self meta. Like how I say that I hammer people at L-1 on Day 1 without much resent when I'm town

And look at this.. exactly the same

Again, hi. Jason...My name is Boonskiies. I'm known to hammer my biggest town read on occasion without letting them claim in a moment's notice. Mainly when I'm town! Me OMGUS'ing is nothing.

Same exact argument used as scum

Eat the fucking noose ASAP. This guy is scum. 100%

Scum game - makes boasts about hammering
this game - boasts of hammering.

It's scum

[SleepyKrew]

I referenced a meta where he boasted about doing it before, in a game he was scum, identical to how he has done it in this game.

Hold on I'll dig it up.

I'm not sure what this post is saying
But I feel like it's an attempt to move the goalposts

[SleepyKrew]

Yup definitely goalpost moving.

[jasonT1981]

I've barely been reading at all, but it looks like Thor pointed out that your issue with Boon is in fact playstyle, and this has thrown you off.

then don't make assumptions based on half assed readings of the game. Thor has provided absolutely no reasoning why its playstyle based except saying over and over it is. Much like him shouting I am scum, without doing a thing to actually provide reasons why.

I made a post pointing out my reasons for my thoughts, very little are playstyle and all are actions in game. Thor chose to ignore it and rant about it all being playstyle. It took him less than 2 minutes (check time stamp) to dismiss everything as playstyle, which is proof he didn't even read it as it would counter his arguement.

[jasonT1981]

Not moving goal posts - solid fact

Scum game Boon boasts about hammering town.
This game Boon boasts about hammering town.

There is no town motive to boast about hammering town.

Scum

[Malakittens]

I'm VLA for an uncertain amount of time. My cat just died in my arms so mafia posts won't be a thing. I might replace out, but I rather not if I can get my mind away from her loss after a few days

[jasonT1981]

Sleepy, do yourself a favor, wake up and actually read the full game before making half assed assumptions based on something you have not fully read. Then get back to me?

K, thanx, bye.

Edit by preview - Sorry to hear, Mala, its always hard to lose a pet. Take a few days and clear your head.

[SleepyKrew]

I'm VLA for an uncertain amount of time. My cat just died in my arms so mafia posts won't be a thing. I might replace out, but I rather not if I can get my mind away from her loss after a few days

<3

[SleepyKrew]

jason
Tell me why this is an inaccurate portrayal of events:

Thor: "Your push on Boon is a policy lynch because you think his playstyle is terrible."
jason: "No."
Thor: "Here are a few examples of you calling Boon a liability (which is not something you'd call a scumread, but definitely something you'd say about someone you're trying to policy lynch)."
jason: "No. Look at the time he said he'd hammer his townreads. Who would want to hammer townreads? Only scum!"
SleepyKrew: "Wasn't he talking about a past game to defend his playstyle? That quote has nothing to do with hammering townreads in this game."
jason: "No. It was actually scummy because he mentioned the same meta as scum once."

[Thor665]

are you open to lynching sthar today?

Sure.

the obvious conclusion here is that his team has a mutual agreement to not discuss how they spent their tokens in *any* of their games. jason would respect this regardless of what his alignment in *this particular* game is.

which is why I think you actually using this as a reason for thinking he's scum is a load of shit

I agree with you - his team made he agreement.
Which of them do you think is using the scum tokens?
I will agree it doesn't make absolute proof of scum, even if they absolutely did spend them But that they are trying to hide the info to my mind proves they spent them, and thus it is a valid expectation that every member of their team has a higher than random chance to be scum (which, by definition, is what the tokens are)
And it's Day 1.
Blood. Blood makes the grass grow.

it feels like you're just going through the motions with all the questions you're asking and continuing to push him as scum regardless of what he answers.

Am I using all the answers to push him as scum?
Because if your answer to that is 'no' then all you're establishing is that I'm scumhunting him and am receiving answers I translate as 'null'.
Which, actually, seems normal to me.

Like what...specifically?
Just the above? Or something else?

most of your posts, really

Oh bullsmurf. That is so far and away from 'specifically' that it isn't even in the same language.

this is your stated reasoning for jason being scum:

It's a few little things, really, but the concise description would be; overaware RVS, paired with lack of hunting, paired with sudden push on whom I perceive as the weakest player available to push in the game, paired with no actual argument for that case beyond playstyle, paired with the token thing.

most of the questions you're asking him are in response to posts he made, but they don't have anything to do with your reasoning here for him being scum. taking the questions from your recent posts, you're asking him about whether he believes RVS

assessing his RVS shenanigans - which ar a major part of my case

, who he thinks the weakest player in the game is

assessing his defense attack on me when I questioned him about his non-scumhunting push on Boon

, pushing him for not answering how they used their tokens

assessing the token based aspect of my case on him

, why he thinks you should be looking at alternate options besides him

this one I agree isn't about the case - it's just making fun of his weak defense...in a *mild* way I could argue that his inability to even say 'Boon' showcases his lack of scumhunting, but I wouldn't actually wish to call that scummy and push it, really

, etc. (the post I quoted was only one example of this.)

Oh...wow, look at that, all of your examples are specifically connected to my reasons for finding him scummy.
...

I don't really have a problem with this. what I have a problem with is the fact that you have not asked him anything along the lines of:

- "why is Boon doing *insert action here* scummy, as opposed to playstyle?" (re: Boon case being playstyle - what you're doing is just assuming he's scum for pushing something you think is playstyle, without making any effort to understand what his thought process behind it is)
- "who are your other scum reads besides me?" (re: you not thinking he's scum hunting)

I agree - I don't ask questions the way you do.

the other problem I have is that, as I said before, I don't really see you taking in his answers and reevaluating. I have, to this point, seen absolutely 0 indication that you have seen anything he's said and thought he was less likely to be scum as a result of it.

I agree - otherwise I wouldn't still be voting him.

this isn't particularly scummy,

I also agree with this - so it worries me that it is your second point (of two).

Eh, let's see what Jason flips and then we can debate that. Nacho agrees with you though, so, meh.

I also don't buy that, if your strategy here was to sort him via pushing on him, that you'd make a post like this when you did. you pretty obviously are convinced he's scum at this point, while as I was saying in the last paragraph of the last post still haven't directly engaged him over what makes you think he's scum. this is why I don't think you're actually trying to sort him here

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand pressure, nor how Thor uses it, nor how Thor plays as scum or town.
But I'll agree with you - I am saying the things you're saying I'm saying.

i don't know why people think jason's posts on this/the previous page come from scum

i don't know why people think Thor cherry picking 2 posts where jason calls Boon terrible, while ignoring posts like 160/162 and 222 which have nothing to do with playstyle, comes from town

I flat out call 160 and 162 playstyle.
I would call 222 at best a challenge of OMGUS - which I'll agree is not playstyle, but also doesn't really grab me as a unique case either.

I oppose the Egg push, the logic of 'he's avoiding scumhunting' by asking sthar8 for his thoughts is...well, that's actually the definition of scumhunting, methinks.

Can you read in English? Egg never asked me for thoughts. He just announced that I was scum.

Yes...?
I would say a stated challenge like that is just as valid as a question in offering you the chance to present your counterargument.
Why do you disagree?

Let's try this:

Thor, let's say Jason got mod-confirmed as town, for some reason. Who would be your next scum candidate, and why?

STD for reasons stated.

Thor

:

Ceph would like to know if ffery is reading this game.

Ffrey is reading the game and has offered some thoughts as well.

I said his mentality of hammering town reads is a liability and I stand by that.

Who has motive to hammer someone coming across as town?

No one - including scum.
I agree it shows bad play - if that's your point.

It is not a play style attack, its an attack on actions I believe are scum and not of town.

If someone is willing to hammer someone coming across as town... that is scum right there.

No.
I can show you town doing it, multiple times, in the same game, all without any of them being Boon.

Players are dumb and play badly without it affecting their alignment.