Open 595: Elemental Mafia (Town Wins!)

[ConManMick]

Hey folks!
[voteflubbernugget[/vote]
That's an entertaining name

[ConManMick]

Oh dear.

[ConManMick]

Page one quick hammer for derped up vote?

[ConManMick]

Neither, it's a space marine!

[ConManMick]

Senator, you best be respecting the Emperor

[ConManMick]

I'm curious guys - is playing by gut advisable, or is that more an early game tactic? That's not to say I've got anything yet, but I do so love throwing my hat in the ring!

[ConManMick]

Thanks Bellaphant, that's a fairly concise answer. I'm relatively new to the site, most of my experience comes from a cardgame variant, so reading people is much easier.
I can see what people are getting at re:lane and post 23, although personally I thought it was fairly innocuous.
Basically I'm kind of slow to get reads. Also, some people notice mad stuff from simple things. For example, they'll possibly pick up on something from your reply, or even something in this post! Part of what makes forum based Mafia so very interesting. Sometimes it's like you can hear the gears clicking away in people's heads!
I shall inform you all of anything I think is noteworthy as the game progresses.

[ConManMick]

Plot, what made yo change your vote?

[ConManMick]

Bloody typos!

[ConManMick]

Papi, re: FA_Q2 post 9; look at my post 7, I derped the vote function

[ConManMick]

That it the most counterintuitive thing I have ever heard.
I assumed it would be counted. Also it was RVS. Also "because your name is entertaining" would suggest it wasn't anything serious.

[ConManMick]

Isn't the point of RVS to stir up motion in the game...? Votes are placed in RVS for lighthearted reasons. Based on player's reactions, one makes reads. Would it be naïve of me to think it's a little odd that you'd appear to freak out of a misformatted vote?

[ConManMick]

Whoops, that comes across as if I'm telling you how the game works. That's my interpretation of the purpose of RVS.

[ConManMick]

OK, you want a read? I think, flubber, you're being a tad over pedantic about me not correcting a formatting error. That's a feeble line of investigation, feels like your whole line is an OMGUS vote. My vote will stay put for now.

[ConManMick]

Hmmm. Well senator could be a heretic or xenos, but that doesn't necessarily equate to scum. I'll inform the Inquisition if I think we're at risk, but for now I'll monitor it myself.
I don't think there's anything I can point out / see that hasn't been said already; Jeanne's comment could've been a joke, could've been a joke to shift attention. I see a couple of people seem to think something of plot because he changed his vote. I questioned it myself, but I'm pretty satisfied with his answer. Of course, I would've preferred an explanation at the time of the vote, but it was still an RVS vote.

[ConManMick]

Aha, a Sanguine Son! So it's rivalry, not heresy. Carry on Blood Angel!

[ConManMick]

Sorry if it's unnecessarily flourished, coming into exam season, trying to maintain a suitable register for essays and such. Also, I've been checking this while taking breaks from an essay on Thomas Hardy

[ConManMick]

Don't know if I make the cut, plot, but I'm new too. Heard about the site in July, forgot about it until a ToS marathon, signed up, shyed away and then came back!
Set up for this game sounded mad so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Speaking of inactives, Spartan is V/LA until tomorrow I think, and hasn't been able to check in. He's got coursework deadlines.

[ConManMick]

Your past is shrouded in mystery... LIKE A MAFIA HITMAN!

[ConManMick]

Gaming buddy of mine, yes. I told him on Skype the game had started (I can transcribe messages if that's allowed / required), he told me he had to get his coursework deadlines sorted

[ConManMick]

Oh dear. I just told him the game had gone live, I didn't think that'd be an issue >.<

[ConManMick]

Do you guys want me to message Spartan again? He was on our Minecraft server for a little bit earlier

[ConManMick]

Sorry ... Thought I could help with prods, get the wheels turning. Won't mention it again.

[ConManMick]

There's a lot of investigation and counter investigation going on at the minute, though a lot of it seems like it could be noise. I'm having trouble seeing anything useful coming out of it.
I liked Song's entrance though.
Song, I don't know if you were looking for me to address your concerns or if you were just expressing suspicions, but any who:
Yes, I am new, but I'm also aware that 1 vote in RVS does not equate to someone being quick lynched. It was intendes as a joke, but it unfortunately it's one of those things where inflections makes all the difference. Like how sarcasm doesn't work in a text based medium. I should think the more relaxed reaction to further RVS votes should indicate that I wasn't legitimately worrying about being quick lynched.
I understand you guys haven't liked the quality of a number of my posts so far. There's been a lot of dicking about on my part, and frankly if I want to continue with that, I should take it to the general thread. Apologies.
With that addressed, how can I assist with the progress of this game?

[ConManMick]

Still coming up with reads guys. In the meantime, plot, I can answer your question handily enough, so I'll address that quickly. Senator made reference to the specific chapter of space marines that my avatar is from. All those terms are lore to do with the background, to put it simply. Xenos meaning alien / nonhuman, heretic going against the religion of the lore, and Sanguine Son being a reference to the Blood Angels, the chapter you play as in the game "Space Hulk" which senator mentioned.

[ConManMick]

I've invited a lot of unnecessary suspicion onto myself. Perhaps I can help to dispell that. I have also learned the jokes aren't allowed in games on this website. Every person in this game, for example, who has made any sort of attempt at humour, has been scum read by some or other person. Pity, but oh well.
Moving on:
Still feel strongly that flub is scum. From his entrance onwards, he's come after me in a manner which I feel is an attempt to disguise an OMGUS vote.

Also I don't like him explaining himself so much

Stuff like this. If you address a concern to someone, standard convention dictates that they answer it. "I ask him stuff and he answers. What the hell man?" That reads as utter nonsense. Of course I'm going to explain myself. That's the point of addressing me; to hear my explanation of behaviours. This argument is foundless.

Also, re: mis formatted vote, read post zero:

Votes may be either bolded or placed in a vote tag. If I think it is a vote I will count it.

That I messed up vote tag would indicate I was trying to vote. I had no reason to assume that wouldn't be obvious.

Awesome so you're rvs'ing to fuck around and not to scumhunt by your own admission

But being a douche makes you right so idk

You falter in your arguments so you attack your opponents. Nice. I can see the validity of your argument since you have to resort to calling your opponent a douche to maintain it.
There's also the comments about sheeping, and constant beckoning to join the wagon.

Then there's Bella. Slightest bit of scrutiny and hey look, better catch the ConMan wagon! It looks a lot like you're just deflecting people from yourself to me. I don't like that, you're my second scum read. This was noticed by one or two players, but largely ignored.

It's difficult to read people when they're mostly just agreeing with eachother. In this I'm at a disadvantage; not many people are responding to questions because things are largely directed at me. I will say I'm town-leaning a couple of people, but nothing solid enough that I'd deem it worth mentioning.
At this point, the most useful thing I think I can do is to ask you for your thoughts on this and to throw any additional questions my way. I will answer them, unless flubber objects. Probably not immediately as I intend to catch some Z's now.

[ConManMick]

I have two or three people I think could be town, but I don't know if they're solid enough reads to share. If you think it would be helpful for me to share nonetheless then I will. For the time being, I'm content to watch them and try and get a better read.

[ConManMick]

Farside, what was my post 244 if not a provision of reads? I thought I made it clear: I suspect flubber and Bella.
I'm also not sure I understand your issue with me being too "wordy". I think I misunderstood previously when you first expressed this concern. If your issue is with my register, there's not a whole heap I can do to change it. That's just my writing style.
Ric, with regards to town reads; I've been trying to read you and lane, but I'm not getting much there. I reckon FA_Q2 is probably town. His suspicions of me are based on something more solid than misinterpreted jokes. He's also been following flubbed, so there's that too.
To far side again, I'd be interested in hearing what you think makes senator town. I feel like he probably is, but reading over his ISO, I'm not really sure why.
Lots of nulls and insures. I'd also love if our four absentees could lend their voices, but that'll come in time.

[ConManMick]

It's possible he meant next Thursday but now I don't want to ask him because I don't want to break the rules. At this point I'd say just replace him, at least we'll get another slot contributing to the game.

[ConManMick]

I'm not sure what the issue is with 44, but hey, to each his own and all that.
I think it's unfair to dismiss my suspicions of Bella as an OMGUS purely because she has voted for me. Look at her vote on me: it's very opportunist, and as soon as she drops it, she slithers away from people's suspicions. Speaking very frankly, it's a pain in the arse feeling like you can't provide an opinion on someone because it'll be dismissed out of hand on this basis. I'm also not the first to point out how convenient her vote was.

[ConManMick]

*tapdances* better?

Would you like me to argue about why obvious jokes are obvious?

I could argue that FA's vote on flub is silly, but I don't necessarily think fa is scum.

Actually, a better idea is to ask @farside: why you so bothered about my 'crap posting' when other people *cough*conman*cough* are arguably making less progress towards sorting the game. Also, what are your thoughts on plot/flub/choof?

@flub, any initial reads?
@papi, your thoughts?
Currently, I'd like to hear more from choof, as he promised a big post.

Also, plot, I'm pretty new.

Referring to this. You seem to just sidestep scrutiny and slide it all on to me.

[ConManMick]

Fair enough Bella, I withdraw my comments.
BBT, have you honestly just jumped on the largest wagon purely on the basis of it being the largest? Granted, only three other players but still, that's a hell of a way to enter a game.
Regards to town reads, I thought I posted them already, lemme check really quick.

[ConManMick]

If we go about policy lynching, however, we could potentially put strain on ourselves. It'll make things easier for the scum players if we lynch people for the sake of it rather than actually suspectung them of being scum. Strikes me as a tad counterintuitive.

[ConManMick]

Suspecting* sorry, predictive text on mobile keeps changing suffixes

[ConManMick]

I'm liking BBT's catch up. Entry was still a little off putting, but hey.
3-0 BBT!

[ConManMick]

Leaning scum to reading scum on Bella still. Still think it was a sidestep.

[ConManMick]

Yes I've fallen behind on questions. There's a lot of them, I'm trying to keep track. I think I've dealt with most of them, please bring my attention to any I have missed.

Bella

, I was given to understand that you had taken offense to the way I originally expressed my suspicions of you. I still have doubts about your alignment.

@BBT

, posts 244, 267, 293.
I've been on the sea most of the day and I'm royally shagged. Seriously, please do notify me of missed questions.

[ConManMick]

I haven't moved my RVS vote because I think I picked a winner. I'm waiting for my horse to come in.

[ConManMick]

Sorry guys, I should have V/LA'd. I'll post something useful after school, ~6hours

[ConManMick]

Tbh, I suggest a policy lynch of a lurker d1. Town that doesn't contribute should be gotten rid of and if they happen to be maf it's a bonus.

yay for bandwagons VOTE: Papi

Where these addressed? Don't like the attitude of whatever's convenient. Policy lynches D1 and unexplained wagoning = playing to Scum's wincon.

I'm happy to move Bella to null. Reread, nothing overtly scummy in our interactions really.

With respect to the papi lynch, not sure what to make of it. I can see why ye lot think he's scum, and I don't like the sudden disappearance (insert something witty about hypocracy here etc.etc.). The DOC claim is possibly cause for pause. Essentially I think it's plausible, so I'm not 100% comfortable with throwing my vote in. As has been stated, losing a DOC won't hurt us too badly. I don't see anything in set up about roleblockers; would it be worthwhile hanging onto papi and having him investigated?
Anywho, I'd be more satisfied with a rational lynch than papi, I think he ticks more boxes.
VOTE: RationalMadman

[ConManMick]

Jesus Christ, I could sneeze in here and you'd accuse me of sneezing in a scummy tone

[ConManMick]

So this is what a tracker does...

Spoiler:

The Tracker is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, that player targeted the same night (but not the action the player performed). If that player did not target anyone, the Tracker receives a result of "did not target anyone" or similar.

That's my fault for not properly researching the game roles actually. I thought tracker was basically cop, my bad.
Using the tracker as I suggested would be a bad idea indeed.

[ConManMick]

Why are you baiting me? If he flips DOC, or anything that isn't Mafia, I'm going to take 712 as a sign that you're definitely scum. You're trying to bait me into pushing a lynch you know is wrong.
If he does flip scum, I'm still not impressed with the nature of your post.

[ConManMick]

Could that vote be any more useless

Hammer your scumbuddy like a man

This is a thinly veiled insult. Regardless of papi's alignments, you're trying to manipulate me into furthering your own cause. If pointing out that you're playing scummy is an offense, then let me be the first to say - and I'm breaking my own rules about trying to be polite here- but fucking lynch me. I'm sick of your "playstyle". You seem like you're more interested in getting a rise out of people than in playing the actual fucking game.
Excuse my French.
To post something useful:
Bella, based on his ISO, he makes some attempts at hunting, which is pro town. However he explores a lot of exhausted concepts, so I suppose you can dismiss that. There's just nothing that sticks out to me as being obviously scummy. That said, I'm not sure how much of the game he has read, his last count makes it 5 pages. If you can point out something scummy, I'd be willing to reconsider my vote for today.

[ConManMick]

*sigh*
I have made it abundantly clear, in responses to questions posed by Bella, that I am not entirely sure of papi's alignment. I have also made clear my suspicions of flubbed and my general distaste with his play style. He isn't playing to town wincon. He's suggesting quick lynches and flash lynches, and seems to be intentionally aggravating me to serve his own means. Based entirely on him trying to insult me in such a way as to hammer papi (read: BAITING) I'm starting to think papi could be town. His eagerness to end discussion by getting a lynch in so as to enter the night is incredibly suspicious, but apparently no one gives a damn. Once again: I say baiting as in he is trying to illicit a response from Mr that furthers his own goals.

[ConManMick]

So I was very wrong about papi. That was a learning experience. Down to a goon and the SK, I like those odds. Going to go over wagons that formed yesterday, see if anything sticks out.

[ConManMick]

We still have all three DOCs and a backup, but I'd be tempted to hold them back for the time being. Maybe tomorrow, or if we get another scum player.

[ConManMick]

What does tunnelling mean in this context?

[ConManMick]

I don't know, I'm feeling useless. I'd be happy to maintain yesterday's vote on Rational. Other than flub, he was the only real scum read I had.

[ConManMick]

I was hoping to avoid fixating on one individual but Rational, you've gone and put your foot in it. Are you claiming or not? You're very in and out. This is Mafia, not the hokey pokey. The half hearted claim followed by the piss take withdrawal (excuse my French) is really bothering me.
VOTE: RationalMadMan

I suspect Farside is town. Yesterday's tunneling may not have been very productive, but it didn't seem scummy. At worst, possible SK, but I doubt it.
I can see the merit behind BBT being SK, but he does seem to be fairly town oriented in his motives.
I reckon wrongsong is either scum or SK, whichever Rational isn't. Entrance seemed a tad opportunistic.

[ConManMick]

What are you doing conman? That vote is premature ejaculation. If madman is scum/SK, then he's claimed way too early. He's committed to a PR claim, so if he's a baddie, then we've got him so long as we get the other baddie before the docs outnumber the vanillas.

madman is either a PR or dead scum walking.

Are you saying he IS scum but should be left alive? Why?

[ConManMick]

Seems like a liability. If he is town, I will say it's a bit late in the day for joke claims. Won't be able to trust his judgement, not that it was particularly useful before.
I suppose this can be revisited.

[ConManMick]

I abandoned it to be picked up later, Bella. In the meantime, I produced a piece about war veterans questioning their mortality, which I think my teacher will enjoy in its stead. Don't tell him that my thoughts on Hardy have been further delayed! Mum's the word.
I think I should be able to prove more useful now that there's a diminished sense of hostility.

Apologies for fluff-post.

[ConManMick]

Wouldn't go risking PR's yet. Based purely on this having been mentioned and discussed, I'd say that they'd be as likely to call townie as PR. We wouldn't be doing ourselves any favours other than to expose useful assets

[ConManMick]

Only way to tell if they lied would be to lynch them, given nature of the killing / defending powers (I should think). However anyone lying is likely to get caught up in said lies. If you're town and you do claim, claim as you are so as not to throw any more spanners in the works re: RMM

EDIT: Plot posted as I was typing. Tracker as VT could keep them safe, I guess. Again, I'd like to stress that I think it's a bit early for mass claim. Maybe tomorrow or after we get the last scum or SK.

[ConManMick]

Trying to decide if the misspelling is just a shitty joke. Also I'm fairly certain you're not a power role, thus you were awarded my vote. Enjoy it, it'll probably be keeping you company for a while yet.

[ConManMick]

Oh my, I just tried to meta RMM.

is he always like this?

Pretty much

[ConManMick]

Welcome to the club

[ConManMick]

Oh wow I put my foot in it. Rev, I only just realised after reading 1105 what you were getting at, up until now I thought this was discussion of theory relating to the process of mass claiming.
Alright, I'll withdraw my vote for now, but I still don't like RMM's play and it feels like a potential liability for future interactions.
UNVOTE: RMM
BBT, farside mentioned something about tunneling (can't remember exact wording + phone posting, sorry) and I assumed she was referring to her interractions with / suspicions of me. Given the general concencus relating to spexulations of my alignment of the time, it seems town motivated. Plus, she addressed it and is willing to scum hunt. Other than that, I just get a town-y vibe. Wouldn't be any great judge of meta so my word isn't golden.
Anywho, I have a practical exam tomorrow that I need to prep for. I'm going to excuse myself from posting until tomorrow evening. Sincerest regrets. I'll try to stay up to date reading the thread though.

[ConManMick]

You see the part where flub flipped as scum? When you're playing Mafia, sometimes you lie to incriminate other players so you can win!

[ConManMick]

SK is not part of their team and can throw a spanner in their works, so while I don't think they HAVE to kill him/her to win, they probably would so they don't get night killed (see: flubber).

[ConManMick]

I am back and have been paying attention. Exam went well, unprecedentedly well based on previous years. The skin on my hands is in tatters however.
Going to read some ISOs!

[ConManMick]

If we mass claim we have to accept that we're losing powerroles, but likelihood is that we'll snare scum in the process. It'd be a worthwhile exercise, I think.

[ConManMick]

wait, what? If BBT were really confirmed town (instead of just saying he is again and again) wouldn't that more likely draw the NK to him? If we all agree with BBT that BBT is conftown (which I agree is weird becauseI don't remember masons in this setup), won't BBT be more likely to be night killed, not less?

If you hadn't mentioned this, we could've seen this hypothesis tested.

[ConManMick]

You know, you get those kernel corn things and you heat them and they explode into these tasty fluffy white clouds that you put salt or butter or even caramel on? Awesome stuff altogether

[ConManMick]

I thought you were taking the piss when you said "popcorn?"
What is popcorn in this context?

[ConManMick]

Pssst... Acronyms... What's PoE and FWIW?

[ConManMick]

Thank you sir

[ConManMick]

Toffee is so far removed from my line of thinking that he simply must be a different alignment to me.

This is a silly argument, you may have lost me here. Different folks, different strokes my friend.

Pedit:
Point about the nature of his popcorn pass is interesting, however.

[ConManMick]

I think I know who a PR is.

If I'm right, it confirms me as town because I would have killed said PR if I were scum.

Wait, wait, I know THIS acronym!
It's WIFOM!

[ConManMick]

Unless you were scum, figured out he was a PR, and decided to buy yourself some town credits before disposing of him.
The pot calls the kettle black;
WIFOM.

[ConManMick]

Like this

[ConManMick]

No. Hypothetical WIFOM situation here:
You're scum / SK.
You cop onto lane being a PR.
You announce: LANE IS PR, IF HE IS I'M CONF TOWN BECAUSE IF I WAS SCUM HE'D BE DEAD.
Reasonable argument, have these town credits man.
You cash in on those town credits and sail away into the sunset. Then you sail back and murder everyone because they thought you were town.

[ConManMick]

Hahaha.

OK, but that would mean I would first have to out a PR.

Do you think I would get town points for outing a PR for no reason?

Toffee you're hurting my brain. If lane proves to be a power role, is this not what you've literally just done?

[ConManMick]

Ugh. Stress of going back. Damn you, Toffee. Damn you.

[ConManMick]

Before it was SUGGESTED, no. I'll let you have that one sir.

[ConManMick]

wait, what? If BBT were really confirmed town (instead of just saying he is again and again) wouldn't that more likely draw the NK to him? If we all agree with BBT that BBT is conftown (which I agree is weird becauseI don't remember masons in this setup), won't BBT be more likely to be night killed, not less?

If you hadn't mentioned this, we could've seen this hypothesis tested.

Agreed, Toffee

[ConManMick]

Farside the docs will have to reveal themselves to do that

[ConManMick]

Sorry for not just combining this. Senator, she means two people as in the tracker + whoever he/she clears

[ConManMick]

Don't think so. Actually, wasn't it put forward for tracker to do the same?

[ConManMick]

Double bus'd be reasonable given the circumstances of the lynch. Staying off the wagon provides a smaller pool to hide in.

[ConManMick]

Dave: PR
Wrong: PR
RMM: PR
Bella: PR

Plotinus: VT
FA: VT
BBT: VT
Farside: VT
Senator: VT

[ConManMick]

ugh why hasn't conman gone yet. Go con

Because I was waiting for the popcorn.

PR

I was hoping Toffee was right, then we'd know where to look already.
Wanderer, the floor is yours.

[ConManMick]

Sorry for delay I was checking who was left

[ConManMick]

Would you be willing to share why you thought lane was a PR now?

[ConManMick]

O_o

Toffee remind me to break out a magnifying glass if I ever play with you again. I wouldn't have copped crumbs like that in a hundred years.

[ConManMick]

Well this is interesting.

[ConManMick]

I'd be happy to wait until everyone checks in again in case someone changes their claim. Otherwise, let's get cracking with checking up on the VT pool.

[ConManMick]

As you said farside, we're losing PRs tonight regardless of whether tracker claims or not. Assuming all claims are true, odds of tracker surviving are better than if they claim. Tracker should only claim if they have something useful.

[ConManMick]

Odds of them being targeted then

[ConManMick]

That wouldn't have been a tell if you hadn't brought it to our attention, Toffee. I could make the same argument. E.g. : I thought Farside was a PR and she's still alive, therefore I must be town.

[ConManMick]

That was a hypothetical situation.

[ConManMick]

Between you picking a player who survived and saying that that equates to you being town, and me doing the same thing?
Hmmm...
Well mine wasn't a legitimate provision of reasoning. Is that the difference?

[ConManMick]

Ah yes. Farside, mention some condiments please.

I'm happy to say he's town. I haven't thought he was scum. I just think this is a less than solid point to base a town read on.
Let's do something productive. You said Farside or FA for scum. What's scummy and why?

[ConManMick]

Never question Toffee's actions unless it's a micro and he's your scum partner. Lesson learned

That's enough for me to go on.VOTE: Reverend

[ConManMick]

So if rev is scum and killed Ricastle, we look at people who were suspicious of Flubber for SK? Which includes me, unfortunately.

[ConManMick]

So here's what we do.
We get a box, a stick, and a string...

[ConManMick]

Gonna risk it.
Elemental doc.
Protected farside with water last night. Happy to protect Bella with water again tonight.
Few drinks into a kings game, so if this was a bad decision to make, sorry guys. But yeah, I'll go water on Bella.

[ConManMick]

WAIT only one other doctor needs to claim and state element, then the last can stay (relatively) hidden i.e 50/50/doc or backup remaining. Not a whole heap of difference but hey.

[ConManMick]

Bella don't eat any apples

[ConManMick]

OK fair enough. He's cop everyone, we can go home.

[ConManMick]

Yeah alright
VOTE: senator

[ConManMick]

Bella, docs are primed for repeat action, no changes to element selections. Back up: in the event of dead doc, don't say anything, just take their element.

[ConManMick]

Unclaimed is earth, yes. Don't know if the set up is too town sided, could just be luck of the draw considering we managed to get the entire scum team in two nights

[ConManMick]

Wow, only one town casualty! Good game guys! Thanks for modding alchemist!
This game was supposed to keep me going until my exams because I don't want to enter a new one before then...
I reckon the town was ridiculously lucky more than anything else, but a factional roleblock would be worth testing alright.

[ConManMick]

If rev had've been lynches I'd have been sold down the river because of my comments about Spartan!