Open 595: Elemental Mafia (Town Wins!)

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: conmanmick

Can't vote properly - scummy

[FA_Q2]

Papa, it was another rvs joke.me and fa played our first game together in Rome. He was scum and he hammered me in lylo. So, in a game where we play together, stats say he has 100% Chance of scum. Apparently. Jokes are less funny when you explain them!

No

I understood it when you posted it and it was even more funny after you had to explain it!

[FA_Q2]

Because I agree with you?

Stating you are willing to sheep a vote that does not even exist and also not vote really seems opportunistic. Then, couple that with:

OK, you want a read? I think, flubber, you're being a tad over pedantic about me not correcting a formatting error. That's a feeble line of investigation, feels like your whole line is an OMGUS vote. My vote will stay put for now.

Gimme one more scum read and ill move my vote over to plot

Why? Why would you move your vote over to plot if you get another vote but stay where you are at if you do not? Give me a town motivation for this that makes sense. O far the only player that looks to be scum is you…

Where is flubber at in the VC? His wagon is moving awfully fast...

UNVOTE:

[FA_Q2]

Nevermind - VC is right above my post.

VOTE: flubber

[FA_Q2]

“as I reason?”

I do not understand what you are exactly asking. I assume it is about my vote.

I did not vote in my first one because I thought more people had voted flubber and wanted to know where he was before placing my vote. I realized after I posted that the VC was right there and there was only one vote added after. I was mistaken when I thought he had a fast developing wagon – there just seems to be some interest there.

[FA_Q2]

“as I reason?”

I do not understand what you are exactly asking. I assume it is about my vote.

I did not vote in my first one because I thought more people had voted flubber and wanted to know where he was before placing my vote. I realized after I posted that the VC was right there and there was only one vote added after. I was mistaken when I thought he had a fast developing wagon – there just seems to be some interest there.

Your post seemed like the wagon on him was fast, but you never explained what you found scummy or why a concern for a fast wagon.

I clearly explained my reasoning. I gave 2 reasons – the opportunistic move to get a wagon and stating he would move his vote if he got another scum read without giving any motivation to go with it.

As far as fast wagons, they tend to be town because no one is actively resisting them and they can get a lynch before we are ready for one. There is always one "anti-town" townie that is willing to hammer an L-1 for the scum team without reason. That screws town over pretty hard.

[FA_Q2]

What do people think when you see someone in your game posting frequently elsewhere but not in your game? Do you think that's any sort of tell one way or another?

No, I actually do not.

I find that lurking happens with both alignments just as much. The idea that lurkers are usually scum trying to hide IMHO is false. Town does it just as often because the game stalls or others already said what there is to be said. My experience is limited on this game (around 10 games played now) though. All in all I think the quality of the posts made in between are the real indicators. Are they filled with gibberish or inconsistent or are they genuine?

[FA_Q2]

“as I reason?”

I do not understand what you are exactly asking. I assume it is about my vote.

I did not vote in my first one because I thought more people had voted flubber and wanted to know where he was before placing my vote. I realized after I posted that the VC was right there and there was only one vote added after. I was mistaken when I thought he had a fast developing wagon – there just seems to be some interest there.

Your post seemed like the wagon on him was fast, but you never explained what you found scummy or why a concern for a fast wagon.

I clearly explained my reasoning. I gave 2 reasons – the opportunistic move to get a wagon and stating he would move his vote if he got another scum read without giving any motivation to go with it.

As far as fast wagons, they tend to be town because no one is actively resisting them and they can get a lynch before we are ready for one. There is always one "anti-town" townie that is willing to hammer an L-1 for the scum team without reason. That screws town over pretty hard.

I don't see how the second part is scummy.


Bored people can vote bela with me to see if she does something or continue crap posting.

I don’t see a town motivation there and when I asked for one it was ignored. Possibly because he does not have one….

[FA_Q2]

What do you think of con’s excuse? Does it change your suspicions at all?

Also, the OP clearly states that the scum team had communication pre game start. This could be a newbie mistake.

Also, @Spartan, can we get a confirmation on this previous relationship that you two have.

[FA_Q2]

Forgot the damn quote.

Don't know if I make the cut, plot, but I'm new too. Heard about the site in July, forgot about it until a ToS marathon, signed up, shyed away and then came back!
Set up for this game sounded mad so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Speaking of inactives, Spartan is V/LA until tomorrow I think, and hasn't been able to check in. He's got coursework deadlines.

VOTE: ConManMick

Are you RL friends with him? If not this could be a slip because there's no where that he's stated he's V/LA. So this is information that no one has.

What do you think of con’s excuse? Does it change your suspicions at all?

Also, the OP clearly states that the scum team had communication pre game start. This could be a newbie mistake.

Also, @Spartan, can we get a confirmation on this previous relationship that you two have.

[FA_Q2]

Because I agree with you?

Stating you are willing to sheep a vote that does not even exist and also not vote really seems opportunistic. Then, couple that with:

OK, you want a read? I think, flubber, you're being a tad over pedantic about me not correcting a formatting error. That's a feeble line of investigation, feels like your whole line is an OMGUS vote. My vote will stay put for now.

Gimme one more scum read and ill move my vote over to plot

Why? Why would you move your vote over to plot if you get another vote but stay where you are at if you do not? Give me a town motivation for this that makes sense. O far the only player that looks to be scum is you…

Where is flubber at in the VC? His wagon is moving awfully fast...

UNVOTE:

FA, I do wanna ask you about this. Do you have any other reads? I get your later point about town wagons with no resistance, but I don't necessarily see this as a reason to town-read anyone else on that wagon.

I had to meta flub for my last game. He's ALWAYS weird about rv(q)s. Is there any other reason to think he's scum?


@ric, farside had made the fake comment after my...second(?!) post. Maybe it was the smilies. I didn't really react to it because...wut? Then my non-reaction was an issue. If you wanted something contrived...

What are you talking about? Nothing you said is connected to my post.

I didn’t town read anyone for a fast wagon- those ON the wagon are much more likely to be scum, not town. The one that is wagoned might be town. However, I realized I was incorrect about flubs wagon being fast – there was more talk than actual action (not a very town thing either really).

Further, I did not suspect him because he is being weird about rvs – that is normal though rather silly. I gave 2 reasons and none of them have anything to do with rvs.

He also totally ignored my questions. Also scummy in my book.

[FA_Q2]

Didn't you

just

say Spartan was V/LA?

This is actually starting to sound bad.

Agreed.

I am beginning to think this was a straight up slip. Con is a good lynch candidate for day one IMHO. We really need to hear from Spartan.

[FA_Q2]

What do you think of con’s excuse? Does it change your suspicions at all?

Also, the OP clearly states that the scum team had communication pre game start. This could be a newbie mistake.

Also, @Spartan, can we get a confirmation on this previous relationship that you two have.

This is what I was thinking.

VOTE: Lane

I'm liking this vote because I don't like the one post I quoted above. I'm not getting many scum feels from players, but right now Lane and ConMan are probably my scum reads.

I got a slight town lean on Bella (it's gut) and Flubber. I'm also liking RiCastle for maybe town.

I am confused . You quote me when I posted something against con and Spartan saying you agree here yet you voted for lane.

I am missing why you think lane is the likely scum and are avoiding con?

[FA_Q2]

What exactly would have made the wagon town motivated to you?

?

I asked what YOUR town motivation was.

[FA_Q2]

More comfortable with lane now

Please explain why.

[FA_Q2]

I dont know if we can lynch for that. Reason seems pretty legit and now he's fucked cause he can't tell spartan to come the hell back. If he's rl friends. if we were going to follow that route, would there be any argument to lynch spartan first?

Am I the only one that sees this as scummy.

You are essentially putting the idea out there to lynch a slot that has posted exactly zero posts. That is a shitty idea in general. This is not even a case of laying low - the slot has not even confirmed yet.

[FA_Q2]

@FA_Q2

Didn't you

just

say Spartan was V/LA?

This is actually starting to sound bad.

Agreed.

I am beginning to think this was a straight up slip. Con is a good lynch candidate for day one IMHO. We really need to hear from Spartan.

Let's say that Conman really slipped. That would imply that they scum together, right? So why would questioning spartan about this have yielded anything but an easy lie?
Can you summarize your reason for keeping your vote on Flubber?

Because it would require Spartan to actually link himself with con or distance. I think it would have provided more information if we ended up with a flip from either. More information and/or commitment from players can be beneficial in the long term even if the information is not necessarily that useful today.

I would not have necessarily trusted the answer but there is no such thing as an ‘easy’ lie. The more lies a scum must tell, the more likely we are to catch them in one.


I am keeping my vote on flubber right now because he is getting scummier and scummier as this game goes on.

He has actively avoided answering my questions and his last statement to me was nothing but bullshit and purposeful misconstruing what I stated.

Then he stated I was making things up. Scummy.

[FA_Q2]

More to come later. I know there are a lot more questions I need to answer but I am tired as hell and need to get some sleep for work tomorrow.

[FA_Q2]

tough crowd...






Can I please give my thoughts first? >.>

Not only can you but you should. However, if they are the same thoughts you have been giving then don’t bother – BBT was spot on when he called you out for not taking a stance on anyone. You continue this trend in every post you make.

You are not posting thoughts that are useful when you state this person could be scum or they could be town. That is pretty well established already – tell us who you think is scum and WHY.

I can go with this lynch today I think. I will vote later though if it looks as though this is the lynch for today.

I would prefer RMM though.

321 was REALLY bad and that has been beaten to death.

I genuinely cannot find a single townslip or scumslip or anything form anyone. This is unusual for me.

Nothing.
Then:

Plotinus' attitude, however, is what I call 'over the top' style of scum-play. The typical tryhard scum attitude. Overdoes any explanation etc.

And

But then again tryhards can be VERY useful town members so I really am struggling here.

Takes a stance and then runs from it in the very next post. More nothing.

And tops it off with:

yay for bandwagons VOTE: Papi

Really! No issue with players joining wagons on scummy players but at least have a better reason than because everyone else is doing It at the time.

This runs from a stance much more than Papi does, contributes less and has posted 2 things that make me really think he is scum – runs to a PL and jumps on the first available wagon that might get a lynch without bothering to add any thoughts or agree with anything. Just states yay for bandwagons. Wth…

I still read flubber as slightly scummy but he is not as scummy as these 2. I don’t really agree with the bella scum read, she is null for me. This is mostly based on the last game I played with town bella – the style just seems similar IMHO. Will look harder at bella when I have more time to.

[FA_Q2]

oops, forgot my vote

VOTE: RationalMadman

[FA_Q2]

I don't even understand why we are waiting for claims in this setup. Also cc'ing a doc right now is impossible/dumb unless I'm missing something

I am missing something: there's more than just the docs in this setup

Would you bother to read the op and the setup.

That is plain lazy as hell flubber – there is no excuse to not go back and read the EXPLICIT setup for this game. There are 3 doc’s and a backup but the doc powers are very weak.

It is worth noting that lynching a doc does not remove the doc from the field as the backup is there.

[FA_Q2]

I'm starting to think both senator and farside are scum.

Why? The reactions from both those players are quite standard here at this site when someone wants to lynch a claimed doc.

I think that the fact the doc roles are very weak in this game and the backup makes lynching a doc similar to lynching a VT does not really click in immediately as doc is usually a very good PR.

[FA_Q2]

So how is that claim scummy? It looked okay to me, aside from not being crumbed.

@Papi

Did you crumb that somehow?


PS: How is claiming backup like IC? Its a weaker CCable role, that's all.

Because it cannot be counter claimed.

[FA_Q2]

The whole with Spartan is probably best dropped. There's too many what-ifs to read into it, especially now that Spartan isn't going to be playing. Leaving that bit out, how do you feel about him?

Agreed only because he is not playing so any digging there is not possible. I don’t have a good read on reverend at this time. He has posted a lot but not sure if he is town. I really don’t have any strong town reads and I have already posted my scum reads.

[FA_Q2]

Not interested in that discussion right now Ricastle.

Why?

You are looking for information on a lynch but not willing to talk about what information that lynch might give us?

This really stinks of scum to me. I had you as solidly town but this makes me wonder about that.

[FA_Q2]

601 - It;s awful because of the reasons I stated Farside.

ConMan can get lynched Tomorrow. ToDay, it's Papi.

607 - Oh, I was just talking about the scum motivation behind Ric defending everyone over their RVS votes in his attack against Flubber. I'm not very interested in discussing this further right now though.

614 - FA, I feel this should be pretty obvious. It directs scum. If everyone starts giving opinions on what a flip might mean for them, scum have more information to work with when deciding who to kill.

There is no use speculating on a flip. Let's wait until we have solid information.

You had me as 'solidly town' and one post changed that? Couldn't have been that solid.

Yes it could have been. A player can go from solid town to solid scum pretty quickly if they post something really scummy.

Your explanation is acceptable though. I can accept that reasoning. You overtly claiming that you are not reading is, yet again, another scummy play IMHO as well. Why are you not keeping up and actively trying to lynch those you see as scum all of the sudden? You seemed more than willing to play earlier.

[FA_Q2]

Jesus Christ, I could sneeze in here and you'd accuse me of sneezing in a scummy tone

Yes. That is how mafia works, get used to it.

[FA_Q2]

I think the problem I have with BBT is a major playstyle clash. I understand that's he pushing for PB to me scum, but to risk lynching a doc claim D1 is not my cup of tea, but what's worse is that he says it's okay to lynch because we have a back up doc, but then to CC when there's obv 3 docs in the setup which makes zero sense.

He just made himself NK bait and if PB is a doc, BBT dies N1, we are down two docs and only one back up.

Where did he CC anything? I must have missed that post entirely.

[FA_Q2]

You're trying to bait me into pushing a lynch you know is wrong.

This is a straight-up slip.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ConManMick

I don't get it. I take it as he's saying flub must know it's wrong and he's trying to force a town lynch. Am I reading it wrong?

No, I don’t think you are and I agree. This does not read as an obvious slip to me but rather as a town player challenging someone that he thinks is scum and is trying to manipulate his vote.

Flub – explain why you see this as a slip and not the above.

[FA_Q2]

Declaring intent to hammer

[FA_Q2]

606 - Senator, can you explain the Reverend vote here? If you have explained it at a later time obviously ignore this.

612 - FA, here you said you don't have any strong town reads.

I really don’t have any strong town reads and I have already posted my scum reads.

Yet here;

I had you as solidly town but this makes me wonder about that.

You claim you had me as 'solid town'. What's up with that?

I was not ready to talk about you as a town read at that moment because of something that another player posted and some interactions with you. Then things took a different turn and my thoughts on you changed making that entire line of reasoning moot.

VOTE: papi

[FA_Q2]

damn - give me a sec

[FA_Q2]

I was prodded what is happening here, senator is town btw

Because…

Why should anyone believe you when everything you state is scummy as hell or completely naked? Why not try and bring some reasoning to the table.

[FA_Q2]

....
Have anything... you know... useful?

pedit - ^@rev this->@BBT How can you line the lynch up tomorrow without the flip? That is silly or scummy manipulation.

[FA_Q2]

At a theory level only, the SK is likely to be someone who was scumreading Flubber. I have someone in mind already but it will take some reading to verify.
At a WIFOM level, the SK might be someone who wasn't scumreading Flubber, trying to get us to pursue someone who was.

Yeah, that means anyone could be SK. But I lean toward theory over WIFOM. The SK needs to try to eliminate mafia and that takes precedence over adding WIFOM on purpose. Best to pursue the "someone scumreading Flubber" angle first.

I disagree with the logic on the SK mostly because you are essentially stating that you think I am the SK (I am the only one that was repeatedly trying to get flubber lynched and presented my case over and over) and I can assure you that I am not the SK.

I also do not follow how your logic would separate an SK from a townie - both want to kill scum and therefore they would damn near identical in pursuing that goal. It is the one reason that SK's can be hard to find, they have a very town mindset in scum hunting.

[FA_Q2]

Apparently Flubber looks more town as scum. o.0

We've got 1 mafia and a sk left, yes?

Really because I think that flubber was BLATANTLY scum. Much more than even papi IMHO.

Yes, one mafia and one sk.

[FA_Q2]

This suggests that ConMan is the 3rd scum. Flubber and ConMan voted each other, possibly to distance. ConMan's only vote is on the CW.

Yeah I can see dave scum. This here looks to me like classic scum attempt to link town to scum so dave has an easy target if flubber dies.

At a theory level only, the SK is likely to be someone who was scumreading Flubber. I have someone in mind already but it will take some reading to verify.
At a WIFOM level, the SK might be someone who wasn't scumreading Flubber, trying to get us to pursue someone who was.

This smacks of someone who is concerned about the SK after flubber died.

He was also soft defending papi.

Yeah dave is a good shot for 3rd scum.

The second reasoning is hard to ignore. I think you might be onto something with Dave attempting to chase the SK when we need to be hitting the third scum.

I don’t understand the first one though – you state he is linking town to scum IF flubber dies. He did this AFTER flubber flipped if I am not mistaken so does that not make your reasoning moot? Everyone is trying to link flubber and papi to the last scum (except the last scum).

@dave – care to answer the second charge?

[FA_Q2]

Final papers and Psyclub nonsense is due this week, so I'm going to relatively out of all my games until at least Wensday, when the bulk of my stuff happens. Yay for scholarships.


Flubber being scum is interesting. I think that means that the SK knows how to read people well, not that they took any stance on Flubber. I still think Reverend is scummy, and knowing that Papi and Flubber flipped scum isn't a dealbreaker.

FA_Q2, I don't think they implied that you were the SK based off of the Flubber kill. But are you disagreeing only because you think it implicates you, or is the logic actually flawed?

I already addressed the fact that the logic was very flawed in that it is not distinguishable from town as town has the same exact motivation in nailing scum as the SK does. I have pointed this out already – why are you ignoring that?

And, more importantly, why do you not inherently realize that town has similar motivations in upending scum as the SK? Almost as though you are not coming from a town mindset…

[FA_Q2]

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

I think it's likely that Bella, Plot, and FA are also town. Will not be voting for these people toDay.

That leaves Wanderer, RMM, Wrong, Senator and Dave.

I think Dave is town. I've only skimmed his posts but I liked what I read. Papi also voted for Dave; this brought a couple of things to my attention. Firstly, I doubt that Papi would vote for his scum buddy when he is danger of being lynched. Secondly, why didn't Papi join the RMM wagon? That was a viable counter wagon that he could have joined and tried to push to stop his own lynch. The question is, were town really doing so well that we had two major wagons on scum? It might be worth lynching RMM toDay to sort this out.

There have been posts from Wrong that I'm not particularly fond of but I mostly just forget he is in the game. Could very well be scum. I also believe he spent most of the day voting Lane, who I believe to be town, until he jumped onto the RMM wagon. Was he helping to push the CW to Papi?

I think the most informative lynch for toDay is RMM or Wrong and I feel both have a good chance of hitting scum (obviously I'm wrong on one of them, unless one is SK).

Thoughts?

Why do you think that RMM would be the most informative? What do you think we will gain with his lynch?

[FA_Q2]

Alright.

VOTE: Wrong

This is the one for toDay then.

Can you summarize why you are so sure that wong is scum?

I don't see a strong argument for his lynch at this point. I am leaning much more to Dave right now. I think that the point in his theory crafting for the SK is pretty solid. He also does not seem interested in actually hunting and is using crap logic to 'find' the SK.

VOTE: dave

[FA_Q2]

Yeah, I don't know why you're pointing out what the potential claims could be so you should stop doing that now.

Are you playing dumb or actually dumb?

Do you really not see the logic behind my thinking? Half claims protect the tracker. We don't need to know wrong song is doc, PR was sufficient to stop the wagon.

Pushing for half claims is one thing but you REALLY did not need to outline what the current claims tell scum. You realize that the scum might not be as well versed or thought about what the PR claims might mean?

They might have missed the extra information altogether. That is until you had to point it out with clarity...


Can we please stop feeding scum info and then explaining exactly why such is useful.

[FA_Q2]

OK. This is getting fucking stupid.

We have 3 claimed PR's. I would bet at least one of them is lying, there is no way we have run up 3 PR's consecutively.

RMM, Wrong and Dave have all claimed a PR.

Time to lynch one of Farside/Senator.

VOTE: Farside

You are sure one is lying but want to lynch outside the lying group?


We have 3 claimed PR's.

There are 6VT and 5PR's out there.

As more than half of our PR's are claimed would it not simply be better to get the last 2 to claim and see if there is an actual liar in the group? Should we wait then the PR pool will shrink and a mass claim will become useless. When there was one claim then I can understand not mass claiming but as we have already claimed 3 we have essentially already done a mass claim. (soft claims as you have been talking about btw)


If 2pr's are nailed tonight then there will be 3 left and a mass claim will essentially mean the death of them. Pointless at any other time.

[FA_Q2]

FA, vote Farside?

I have to go back over farside for that. I really don't see the case on him. Care to expand?

[FA_Q2]

BBT, I'm not quite seeing it. I'm gonna iso her. Also, out of your list of 'RMM/Farside/Wrong/Dave' we've had three claimed PRs. I dunno what to make of that.

Also, FA, have a town-read.

What if a PR had a result?

Come again? I do not understand the last two sentences at all.


Do I have a town read or are you reading me as town?

What do you mean what if a PR had a result?

[FA_Q2]

What if a PR had a result?

What result can we hope for? Tracker tagged someone to a kill? Could have been a doc. Tracker is better off holding back his info so he can catch a liar, imo. But it's down to the tracker to decide that for himself.

Another result of mass claim. If the tracked claims VT but tracker got a result - we have a scum/SK.

Other way around is useful to an extent as well but less so as the backup can be a PR without a result.

[FA_Q2]

I think we should press with a mass claim here.

Everyone should either claim PR or VT - no more than that and everyone should claim so there are no lurkers left out. Does any one object to this?

[FA_Q2]

Yeah, he probably should wait. Just thinking about fa's post.

Oh, p-edit: sorry, FA: I am giving you a town read (reading you as town) and I assume TheRev's post has answered the second.

Eh, have you also got any strong town-reads?

p-edit again: wut, bbt??

Also, ppp-edit, I'm a girl Rev!

I would say that BBT and Rev are both 'not scum.'

SK is another animal altogether that I am not ready to get into at this moment.

[FA_Q2]

p-edit again: wut, bbt??

I think I know where one of the PR's lie.

If we're massclaiming, I would like to propose who I think it is and why. If I'm right, I'm confirmed town because that's obviously where I would have killed if I were scum.

I would think that you should wait till after the claim to reveal that though - wouldn't you?

I don't know what you have though so I could be incorrect.

Pedit: how about you comment on the proposal Con.

[FA_Q2]

I understand FA_Q2's reasoning in 1183 and I'm townreading the slot so I agree with a massclaim for now. What order should we go in?

preview-edit:
[quote=The Reverend
It's like he's trying to dodge the scum NK as opposed lynch.

wait, what? If BBT were really confirmed town (instead of just saying he is again and again) wouldn't that more likely draw the NK to him? If we all agree with BBT that BBT is conftown (which I agree is weird becauseI don't remember masons in this setup), won't BBT be more likely to be night killed, not less?[/quote]
Does order matter?

[FA_Q2]

I will start anyway.

VT

[FA_Q2]

I have no idea what popcorn is?

[FA_Q2]

I guess we could hold off for them before continuing

[FA_Q2]

RGR. So we wait for far to claim next then. That seems like a decent idea.

[FA_Q2]

RGR = roger.

[FA_Q2]

Well, the claim has started and, quite frankly, I think such analysis needs to wait until AFTER the claims are done. This is distracting from getting the info we need to analyze. That might change all our tunes depending on what we find.

[FA_Q2]

OK, now. Here is a scenario for you;

Scum claimed PR (let's say RMM).

Tracker or back up claimed VT (Let's say FA)

FA comes back to thread tomorrow and says 'I claim PR'.

We now have 6 PRs.

Do you see how this changes the dynamic of the game?

That is why this entire idea about a PR claiming VT in a mass claim is idiotic IMHO.

Should have never even been suggested considering the point of mass claiming. I am going to assume that no one actually fell for that idea (hopefully). That means my vote is in the wrong place.

UNVOTE:

Now, far's idea is rather townish but he is also the only one that voted like scum. I really cant infer anything else from the vote counts. Not sure who to feed rope now.

[FA_Q2]

Okay, so I asked us not to lynch anyone before I full claimed?

I'm gonna come out with it: I'm the tracker. I got a result on The Reverend. He was tracked to Ricastle last night.

I've kept quiet because I was wondering if he'd claim Doc. But, I now know he is a) scum and b) was SK hunting last night.

Evidence on top:

He was on and off the Papi wagon and his read on him was off (Sen has picked up on this)
662 Calls Ric the SK
919 Is very clever, but he basically just admitted it.

He CAN'T be the doc: 1425

He pushed a bunch of 'scum-reads' who were town. He got lucky/unlucky in the fact most of them claimed PR. He's now pushing BBT, who scum-read him from the start. His day 2 posting looks really good - hell, it made me think I was wrong and he WAS a doc who protected the wrong element and was being clever about it - but it's easy to push scum-reads as scum and a lot of it has been theory.

He's scum and he killed Ric last night.

VOTE: The Reverend

Protect me tonight.

Well that decides that.

Have we reached a lynch yet?

VOTE: the reverend

[FA_Q2]

You should take seriously that I got scum lynched.

You should take seriously that I was looking for scum off the Papi wagon because I didn't believe scum double bussed.

You should take seriously my cases for both Farside and FA scum.

You should take seriously that I am town. I thought this would be evident enough in my play, obviously I was wrong.

I guess this dies not matter anymore but your 'case' on me was based entirely on me moving off a wagon that was not going to happen. Seems like a rather lame case.

Of course we now know I cannot be scum as we are about to lynch all of them and all bets are off with the SK - the SK looks very much like town.

[FA_Q2]

tough crowd...






Can I please give my thoughts first? >.>

Not only can you but you should. However, if they are the same thoughts you have been giving then don’t bother – BBT was spot on when he called you out for not taking a stance on anyone. You continue this trend in every post you make.

You are not posting thoughts that are useful when you state this person could be scum or they could be town. That is pretty well established already – tell us who you think is scum and WHY.

I can go with this lynch today I think. I will vote later though if it looks as though this is the lynch for today.

I would prefer RMM though.

321 was REALLY bad and that has been beaten to death.

I genuinely cannot find a single townslip or scumslip or anything form anyone. This is unusual for me.

Nothing.
Then:

Plotinus' attitude, however, is what I call 'over the top' style of scum-play. The typical tryhard scum attitude. Overdoes any explanation etc.

And

But then again tryhards can be VERY useful town members so I really am struggling here.

Takes a stance and then runs from it in the very next post. More nothing.

And tops it off with:

yay for bandwagons VOTE: Papi

Really! No issue with players joining wagons on scummy players but at least have a better reason than because everyone else is doing It at the time.

This runs from a stance much more than Papi does, contributes less and has posted 2 things that make me really think he is scum – runs to a PL and jumps on the first available wagon that might get a lynch without bothering to add any thoughts or agree with anything. Just states yay for bandwagons. Wth…

I still read flubber as slightly scummy but he is not as scummy as these 2. I don’t really agree with the bella scum read, she is null for me. This is mostly based on the last game I played with town bella – the style just seems similar IMHO. Will look harder at bella when I have more time to.

This is an interesting post from FA. Where did your suspicion of Flubber go?

You read Flubber as slightly scummy - yet you started D2 sounding pretty convinced that you thought Flubber was scum;

Really because I think that flubber was BLATANTLY scum. Much more than even papi IMHO.

Yes, one mafia and one sk.

There are a few things not adding up here. Your latest stated read on Flubber was 'slightly scummy', this attempt to make your read stronger appear stronger than what it was is a push for town cred I believe.

You then state you will join the lynch (Papi's lynch) if it's the lynch for the Day. But, you would much prefer to lynch RMM instead. Then you joined the RMM wagon. Can you explain your thought process here? Why did RMM suddenly become so scummy? You had posted after 3 of his posts that you quoted you had a problem with, why did you not address the issue sooner?

I think you saw RMM as a good opportunity to stop bussing and push a potential counter-wagon to Papi.

VOTE: FA

It was still there. I was the only one pushing flubber and that wagon gained absolutely no traction whatsoever so I moved on.

What did you expect? I addressed the issue when I had to go looking for other scum suspects and found RMM rather scummy.

[FA_Q2]

Somehow those posted completely out of order.

[FA_Q2]

We can't lynch untik the docs have agreed how to protect me. Anyone derp hammering is the sk.

We need a claim from the backup doc.

Then it is possible to coordinate the three elements.

[FA_Q2]

UNVOTE:

[FA_Q2]

Dave
Wrong
RMM
ConMan

Full claim. What are you?

[FA_Q2]

@Sen, explain FA to me

Not to jump in on him but I would suspect that I am at the top of his list because I seem town. I do not really disagree with that train of thought on the SK either though I am VT.

I think that scums logic on BBT is very sound. I would normally not suggest following scums thought process because they are, well, scum BUT in this case it is not only sound but followed rev's win con to try and eliminate the SK. I have been thinking the very same things for a while now but did not want to get into frivolous hunting for the SK before we had caught scum. Rev's logic in locating them early is obvious now that he has flipped. The push for a flash lynch of anyone certainly adds to my suspicions. There is also the complete reversal that BBT just did over accepting his own lynch – yesterday he would ‘never’ do such a thing and out the gates he is changing his tune. Likely because it was causing him to be under suspicion yesterday.

I will also theorize that the SK went and tried to hit bella last night anyway in the hopes that one or more of the doctors was being an idiot and did not follow the plan. A few of the claimed PR’s are hard lurkers after all – it is not implausible that one would miss the night actions.

Who did you track bella?

I would also point out that

if

this current plan is followed it does not matter what the SK does - they are sure to lose no matter what. Every single night the confirmed townie list stays the same while the lynch pool will shrink by one. That is going to leave the SK with no options at all.


VOTE: BBT

[FA_Q2]

Plotinus: VT
FA: VT
BBT: VT
Farside: VT
Senator: VT
Lane: VT
+ Wanderer:

No, he still does not win because you forget that every single night that he kills one of the VT will become confirmed town so:
Worst possible case scenarios here:

Right now:
7 suspects – 5 confirmed town
Lynch town today:
6 suspects – 5conf town
After night actions:
5 suspects – 5 confirmed town - backup doc takes the place of one of the docs AND 1 VT is confirmed town.
Lynch town again:
4 suspects – 5 confirmed town (again, another VT confirmed town)
After night actions:
4 suspects – 5 confirmed town and we are down 1 doc (last confirmed VT)
Lynch town again:
3 suspects – 5 confirmed town
After night actions:
3 suspects – 4 confirmed town and bella is killed (this has only a 33 percent change of happening)
Lynch town again:
2 suspects – 4 confirmed town.
After night actions:
2 suspects – 3 confirmed town and no docs are left.
Lynch town again:
Last suspect - 3 confirmed town
After night actions:
1 SK and it is a known – 2 Townies to take him out.

IF they had killed last night it would be a mathematical possibility that the SK could win but extremely unlikely. Right now, it is mathematically impossible without town making an asinine mistake.

[FA_Q2]

We should lynch.

We need to narrow the pool down.

We are going to lynch. There is absolutely no hurry whatsoever though.

There is not much of a reason to wait either tbh as, again, we have already won this game. Tell us though; give us one single reason that flash lynching is so damn important to you, serial killer?

[FA_Q2]

It would be cool though if we didn't have any misslynches at all.

Yes, it would be

[FA_Q2]

yeah. a perfect town win would be nice after the 2 perfect scum wins that are my completed games (i was town both times).

SK is probably going to kill from the PR pool because eventually the SK wants to be able to hit the tracker, no?

Likely. Anything else and we win faster.

I guess it depends on whether or not the SK wants to finish this or is still going to try and win the impossible.

[FA_Q2]

Thing is, if rev had claimed doc he could've said he used a different element on ric than the one that killed him and was in the clea: would people really have lynched him over Rmm?

Once the mass claims were out - yea. Would have been a LOT worse for us though because we would have had to hunt in the PR pool and the SK would have had a chance.

[FA_Q2]

gg all. This was a fun game.

[FA_Q2]

Ya, you were so town that we thought you were the SK. Pretty funny if you ask me.

I will say that you are one of the better players I have played with BBT - I think you were central to our win.