Genesis Mafia - Game Over!

[RedCoyote]

VOTE: Vi

Ah, that feels nice. I was worried I may never have gotten to type that again.

---

Serious vote? Not sure. Random vote? Not really.

Why say this unprompted?

I hate it when people don't have the balls to say one way or another, btw. Especially someone like you, Sal. A player who I happen to think has a particularly large set.

That said, your reasoning is acceptable. A shame you went so far out of your way to undercut it.

[RedCoyote]

Plum, do you think you're overexplaining?

[RedCoyote]

This is why SK has pocket status and you don't (you being anyone else reading this).

[RedCoyote]

In other news, Im glad to see its an acceptable reason for you, but why are you leaving your vote on Vi (rvs vote) rather than vote Kinetic or Plum if you believe in Jul's reasoning?

The short answer is that I want more interaction to happen before moving my vote anywhere.

[RedCoyote]

What does "pocket status" mean?

Inside joke, lol. Not game related.

---

I'm always shit Day 1. Its Day 2 when I start getting mojo going usually.

You know, I feel like this is becoming a meme. I've been hearing it a lot lately.

---

hamster - look elsewhere

Why are you shutting down Q before players can even respond to him? This comment can be interpreted in a lot of different ways, but I don't like the ones I can pick up on.

[RedCoyote]

SK, how come you only have 10 posts? Does this mean you are scum?

[RedCoyote]

You know, I complain a lot about people that post too much, but in a way you need a few of them in your game to get other people engaged and even give you something to roll with, you know? There's this co-dependency with those that post less/have more of a tendency to lurk, and those that post more/have more of a tendency to spam.

In any event, I don't think that comment is fair. I've got gears moving in this brain of mine, Sal. Don't be impatient. Good stuff comes to those that wait, or something like that.

[RedCoyote]

Lol, y'all be crazy. I have the week off, so I'm spending it with my friends Master Zik and Salamence. This is the thanks I get?

[RedCoyote]

Hey, bud.

First four pages abridged

RVS banter (genesis as in the Bible or the band lol here are my Catholic credentials)
Kinetic: Hey guys, remember me?
Sal: vote: Kinetic
Sal: btw, not sure if this is serious or not but it ain't RVS Kinetic is acting too cool
Plum: i agree vote: Kinetic
RC: Sal, make up your mind
Juls: Plum, don't piggyback vote: Plum
LLD: vote: SK
Plum: [justifies piggybacking, would also piggyback LLD]
SK: huh?
Plum: [more justifying]
RC: Plum, are you overexplaining?
Plum: maybe
Sal: SK, why don't you care about that vote?
SK: deal with it
Sal: whatever
Q: SK, Sal... questions!
Vi: Q, just stop
RC: huh?
Sal/Zik: vote: RC stop fluffing!
RC: HUH???
Juls: me, too vote: RC
ABR: hey, RC, wanna tagteam these scummy fools back to last century?
RC: way ahead of you *lock and load*

ABR and RC proceed to lynch everyone else and walk away with the town victory

[RedCoyote]

Yeah RC is scum. Ive never seen him like this.

Also I would love to hear the people thats say RC posts too much, because I dont believe him.

No one has ever accused me of that. I don't know what you are talking about. Please reread my post as that was not the implication.

[RedCoyote]

@RC - which of these 'fools' are scummy cause what I see is an RVS vote on Vi despite 'stuff' happening.

I didn't think it would need to have been said, but that was tongue in cheek. Allow me to explain the joke to you: The implication was that all players in this game would be killed except for myself and ABR. This would then produce a town victory. Given the absurdity of making such prediction, one may be able to find humor in how ridiculous it is. Regrettably, that was lost on you.

Passive aggressive comment of the day: I will heed Sal and Juls' requests that I button down and not breach rules of propriety for the remainder of the game. I will rigorously adhere to the serious business of Mafia and not do anything that may be construed as too jovial, fun-spirited or otherwise not conducive to catching scum.

---

I do, however, believe that Salamence is Town enough at this time that he should not be the focus of your investigation or vote. (By implication, your case and line of questioning does not shake my belief in Salamence-Town.)

I disagree with this sentiment. I do not think this position is helpful to the town as it discourages scumhunting. Additionally, I do not think you ought to speak on Sal's behalf. Thus, I have not seen the need to move my vote.

---

Q's 92 reads as town, though I wish it were more aggressive.

---

It was funny though.

RC is a reapercharlie alt?

It was funny, but since I am not allowed to ever venture into what Sal/Juls may consider "fluff" territory, I can only advise Vi that given that I registered on the website prior to ReaperCharlie, and given that he has received the forementioned ban years ago, I dispute the idea that he should claim said initials prior to myself.

---

RC claimed that people told him he posts too much. I said he is lying, then asked him who says that.

I did not make this claim. As I have advised you, I implore you to go back and reread the initial claim I made as opposed to spouting mistruths.

Ok, so I misread the post because Im dyslexic. The basis of it is wrong, but it still doesnt change my thoughts of RC scum.

While I can appreciate this, elaboration on this read is in order. I contend that this doesn't answer SK's question.

---

Strong push.

This is also funny, but since I am not allowed to ever venture into what Sal/Juls may consider "fluff" territory, I will only comment that there is a logical point against vez that is implied here as well.

[RedCoyote]

I have vibes on Vi, Plum and LLC. Sal has been looking worse as of late. I am not comfortable with Kinetic's activity so far.

I don't mean to come across as button-lipped, but I was hoping to let conversation flow a bit before having to be so blunt. Seeing as how neither you nor Sal will take a hint (see: 55 & 71), I will begrudgingly show my hand. I do think it's too early to be giving out reads list, but seemingly everytime I check this thread either someone new has voted me or I see yet another request to quit being "fluffy" and "not like myself".

[RedCoyote]

RedCoyote. As an alternative to arguing about Mafia theory, let's work together.

Vote: Plum

(L-6)

The state of the game as a whole is mediocre at best, actually.

Now, is that scummy/alignment related even if so? Probably not enough context for me to have a solid idea at this point

I think the excuses are all pretty worthless.

So many other more useless posts here.

It was pretty dispiriting.

It's useless. It's *all* useless.

*nods*

UNVOTE: Vi; VOTE: Plum

[RedCoyote]

Problem is, I dont have concrete proof in this game to prove RC scum because it is at this point gut. A personal feeling that RC is slighty off. I have no ingame expierence with RC scum, as the only time I played with RCscum was when he was in my modded game. I noticed then that it seems RC's town posting and scum posting have a very slight difference in them. What is this difference, I couldnt tell you.

This is crap, Sal.

There's no easy way for me to put this. This is genuine crap. This is weak, weak, weak sauce, friend. I'm really disappointed with this. I was expecting so much more from you if you wanted to dance with me. How can I even rebut this? "I don't have concrete proof" ... "it is gut" ... "a personal feeling that RC is slightly off" ... "I have no ingame experience with RC scum" ... "very slight difference" ... "I can't tell you".

You should unvote me and hang your head in shame until you can get your scumhunting in order. I'll gladly accept a vote from you when and if you can actually deliver it, but this is bush league and I think you know it is.

[RedCoyote]

Sal, I really want to lose my cool with you right now, but I won't. I am, however, going to build a wall right now, and I fully expect you to pull yourself together. Zik is allowed to vote me over whatever crap he's harboring because I've never played with the guy and have no idea what he thinks and what he is or isn't capable of. LLC is allowed to vote me because LLC doesn't like me and always votes me. Juls is allowed to vote me because eventually I know she'll come around as our playstyles are too similar. YOU are not allowed to vote me because your vote is pretty crap and I have too high of expectations of you and I'm guessing you're letting yourself get caught up in some mess of overthinking me and getting ahead of yourself and it's making me write run-on sentences.

---

I've just realized I'm the only person in thsi game without a special sub-title.

I'm sad now.

Okay, I fully expect Zik/Sal to give Kinetic the business over this comment. If they're going to give me crap about being "fluffy" 3 pages into a game, then I suspect this will really set them off.

I do not believe RC is worth 4 votes right now. Well, I don't believe he deserves more right now. I don't think he's as scummy as the vote count indicates.

With that being said, I'm having trouble really connecting with this game out of the gate. I think I'm going to re-read everything this weekend, and see if a full read gets some of the juices flowing. I agree with the comments that state my play has been suboptimal so far. I don't like that being the case.

While I appreciate the show of support, this first paragraph is pretty sloppy, Kinetic. I'm worth having votes, but not 4? I kind of get what you mean, but what good is having 2 votes on someone?

The "trouble connecting" isn't necessarily scummy, but I hope you do follow up.

---

RC was willing to leave a random (RVS) vote on Vi, then to vote Plum/Kinetic, even after stating that a Plum/Kinetic vote would be reasonable.

You need to go back over 124. I tried to keep that post short so that it would be more impactful, but since that didn't seem to get through that thick skull of yours, I'm primarily building this wall to address this in long form. What started out as a random vote on Vi became something that I was willing to hold steady with. I did not have adequate suspicions of Plum or Kinetic to justify moving to either candidate or else I would have.

Just because a vote is reasonable does not necessarily mean I have to or even will support it. A lynch is not going to traditionally happen going from page 3 to page 4. Nothing piqued my interest enough to get me to want to move my vote, but I saw potential for scumreads that I was actively keeping an eye on. Had you been more patient, as I subtley suggested of you on two separate occasions, you may have seen a more organic shift of my vote.

I'm not Salamence. I'm RC. I change my vote when I deem it proper. Whether or not that's up to your standards is none of my concern. I'm not here to please you. I'm here to find scum.

RC then changes said RVS vote to a serious one after Vi states a read on me, which looks like a bad vote. In the post where he states he has no motion to move his vote, it looks like he is either saying Vi is WK'ing me or Vi and I are scumbuddies, both of which arent true.

I expressed reasonable concerns that Vi was speaking on your behalf. Are you comfortable with Vi speaking on your behalf, Sal? If yes, why? If no, then why is it an issue that I brought it up?

Further, do you contend that Q is scummy for asking you questions?

His latest post states he was scumvibes on Plum/Kinetic, which makes me wonder why RC felt the need to keep his vote on Vi as RVS vs. Kinetic when I stated my reasoning or Plum when Juls stated her reasoning.

This is exactly the same as your first point. Quit padding your nonsense to artificially make it look like there was more to it than there was.

---

What is the above post supposed to be
I'm seeing it as "hey guys I know we're not doing anything but we're going to have to do something soon"
but it doesn't actually do anything

I disagree, but ABR is now on a two-game streak of successfully outwitting me as scum. I will not be in a rush to defend him this game, that's for sure.

---

creepy

I'm not touching the "creepy" bs with a ten foot pole as that word is probably the most loaded word on this website in the past couple of years. Vi, you ought to have known better than anyone how much drama the "c" word creates on this website, so shame on you for bringing it up. Not because I think you are mean or anything, but because I could've told you that this would lead to a lot of unnecessary back-and-forth that belongs in the discussion forums.

Now all that's missing is someone to call another person a slut and we'll really get things shaking up.

---

ABR's 150 is reasonable, but I think he's oversimplifying the Plum wagon.

---

Why should this matter to him?

Is this a rhetorical question? I genuinely can't tell.

If not, it should matter for him if he's town because presumably he'd want to actually figure out what my alignment is, yeah? His vote is a vehicle for doing that (assuming he's town), and that's fine. But I take issue with how little there is for me to say here.

Now, because Sal has consistently shown this game that he is unwilling to accept me as town if I dare be succinct with him, I took the time to respond to his "case" again in long form.

---

Why are you sheeping your scumread?

Vi proposed a reasonable alternative to me in a way that spoke to my sensibilities.

I await you not accepting this answer and demanding I write out two lengthy paragraphs unboxing what should be a relatively simple concept for you.

---

Why are you worried about it, though? I mean, 4 votes at this point on Day 1 shouldn't even be 'breaking a sweat' territory for town, although it certainly might be for scum. So why is it that you seem so concerned about it?

This gives me townvibes. The rest of the post is unnecessary (thanks, Vi).

---

RC has a scum read on Vi.

RC should not be voting with Vi in that case

This is your first genuinely scummy post, Sal.

Does me having a scumread on Vi necessarily mean that Plum is town?

I'll go even further, does Vi being scum necessarily mean that Plum is town?

There are two simple yes or no questions that I'd like you to answer.

---

His posts are still not relevant or useful to the game.

Unpack this, please.

[RedCoyote]

LLD

[RedCoyote]

Plum's 27 comes across as overly proper. Let me give an example:

(correct typo 'sane' to 'same', of course, as you did)

There's something about this sentence that doesn't sit well with me. I also don't like the way she's talking to Juls. She's talking to Juls as though she's town. It gives me, to borrow the word-of-the-day, creepy vibes. Seriously though, it's just offputting.

Actually I liked Lady Lambda's vote on SK a bit, maybe slightly more now?

The support for LLD is out of the blue, unexplained and does absolutely nothing for me. Also, what's the deal with the '?'? This comment doesn't read natural. It reads as someone trying to begin to foster relationships with Juls/LLD.

The first a bit for what I assumed the reasoning was (related to you engaging only in joke territory) I liked, though on the other hand not hard to pick up on/vote for as scum, so not too indicative. Seemed better/more productive when your response was in joke territory, less so now because presumably player relationships and stuff, which gives context that makes it all kinda null (also that being more likely context for LLD's vote to start with than what my best guess was initially &c.).

I had to quote this whole post and just go... huh?

I mean, this is so poorly written that I have no idea what Plum is trying to say. It sounds like it just got out of Babelfish.

I'm not trying to pick on her for poor grammar skills (Lord knows you could find a million in my posts), but I am concerned that this translates into a lot of words that say nothing. It's easy to skim past this and go, "huh, yeah, Plum... activity = town".

I've already touched on how 37 just seems like it's overexplaining, and that comment stands.

This was and is dumb because sitting around waiting for interaction just contributes to a stagnant game. But of course you're not the only one. Kinetic excuses himself from doing anything on a claimed basis of not being a good Day 1 player. I think the excuses are all pretty worthless.

This is fair, and I honestly brought this answer upon myself a bit, but this was really a bit beyond the point I was making.

I mean, I assumed (wrongly, as has proven to be the case) that I would be given slack by Sal if I was able to kind of talk to him on a one-on-one level "above the fray", as it were. Much like how I would talk with a player like Vi or ABR.

Plum is not scummy for this comment, but I just want to touch on it because it is the crux of Sal's case. There's a disconnect between us right now because we came into this game with two very different expectations of one another. I'm not great at reading Sal yet, but I know enough to know that I am willing to cut him more slack in a game than I would cut for other players. As the game develops, we may or may not be on the same page with one another, but there's this mutual understanding of, "okay, we know each other well enough now that we understand each other's little idiosyncracies ... this doesn't mean we'll always be aligned together, but we won't trip over the same obstacles we may have tripped over in our first game with one another".

Anyway, this is just a long way of saying that I overestimated my relationship with Sal and that comment would've been fleshed out more had I taken that into consideration.

I do like Plum's criticism of Q in this post, however.

Thinking something is a good vote, especially that early, is at least as much a reflection of 'I appreciate how this voter seems to be thinking' as 'this is a vote on someone I would like to vote'.

It was a poor vote and you trying to have your cake and eat it too, is not lost one me.

Anyway, one thing ABR is in the right direction about about is Jazzmyn. I'm fully convinced that Jazz has and does find ABR legitimately creepy and I don't think that her framing it that way is itself a tactic to spread *chaos*. But inasmuch as her latest post is all about the presumably not alignment-related creepiness from ABR. It would be one thing if Jazzmyn had a couple of lines about it and moved on, but that was basically the entire content of her post, and it got to the point that she asked him to "contribute meaningfully to the game" where the extent of her own content is: 1)asking Salamance to elaborate his RC (meta)read and 2) asking Kinetic why he worried about the four-vote wagon on RC being too many votes for RC's level of scumminess. To that degree of depth of inquiry, really.

I like this. I like your breaking down your thoughts on Jazz, and this does feel genuine.

To be fair, all three had expressed some level of suspicion of me/willingness to vote me before Vi's vote. It seems more like Vi's vote allowed things to slide into place.

I really like this, too. This may be your best post of the game. I was fully intending this post to be a sort of treatise on why Plum should be voted right now, but I'm starting to have second thoughts after going through her ISO. I would like to see some of her responses to some of the above things. Don't feel compelled to respond to every detail as I ramble a bit there in the middle, Plum, but I do have some legitimate issues with your play so far (hence my vote).

[RedCoyote]

ok, cause you have been calling me that all game. Including in earlier posts. And I assumed that like, it was a typo the first time but now you've done it twice in a sentence so >.>

Sorry!

I think I'm conflating your initials with BPC.

---

RedCoyote, I have an offer for you.
Sometime in the near future, I'd like to confer with you to try to sort this game out. We'd both need to be online and equipped with free time simultaneously.

Offer accepted. It's funny you bring this up now as I'm having second thoughts on Plum (see: 198).

@everyone: Sorry about the walls! Blame Sal D:

[RedCoyote]

Sure, now is fine, but you should start as I just wrote a bunch. Especially if there's something in those last couple of posts you can springboard off of.

[RedCoyote]

I'll be here for an hour or two. I'm just chilling with some music and drinks.

[RedCoyote]

Zik, why have you not mentioned Kinetic once in your ISO?

[RedCoyote]

Since we're having a public conversation, people can and will try to speak in their benefit. Let's not care about that until we're done.

Fair enough.

If at some point we run out of people we think are scum, it -might- be someone in that group. Of course, I'm not just saying that as an instruction to you. Get the point?

Honestly, no. I'm already lost. But I'll stick around for a while and we can keep dumbing it down for me until we're on the same page.

...the nonentities-of-sorts. People who have posted several times, but have contributed essentially little but their votes so far. vezokpiraka will probably contest his listing here but it's

my

list so etc.

I would put Zik in your third list, but I am with you so far as it pertains to the three lists and the groupings, yeah.

I don't have a solid scumread on anyone in the top group, the active group. I agree with everyone else that Quaroath looks Town. Everyone else frankly worries me and I think we'd all be doomed if we left the game to them. However, I'm not going to try to suss out something I don't see immediately on my first pass.

Agreed. Bearing in mind that it's early in the game. I think that's perfectly normal. You show me the first 5-10 pages of any game and I will tell you that the most active players very rarely are those that are thought of as the most scummy.

The second group is the most interesting of the bunch because it's where scum stereotypically lie. Master Zik is my current pocket scumread, because seriously look at those posts. That Town read on Plum is bollocks (nay, balderdash). I'm wary of vezokpiraka because his play ITT is several steps above what I remember it being the last time we met; however, I've nothing to hold against him. Juls has done shockingly little in this game and there's actually not much reason to believe she's not scum. Plum is more or less Juls with more posts and a lot more words; the exception is the first block of 181 which you may read as genuine Town frustration at your discretion.

Quick and dirty, but, frankly, I don't dispute any of this. Maybe a touch harsh on vez (I need more from him, but I wouldn't myself use the term wary ... though I can see how one reasonably could arrive there).

As for the third group - Lady Lambdadelta is either really bored Town or really bored scum. (Just once I want to see that sinister manipulation she's so proud of~) She'll make herself an entity at some point, admittedly two or three game Days down the road. Jazzmyn is, like, the easiest target ever. Getting angry at ABR the way she did is entirely within her parameters from what I remember of her; that says nothing about her amazing ability to say as little as possible up until this point. Kinetic totally won a Scummy for impressive Town play once, gaiz.

I don't know when I've seen LLD as a lurksack. It has been a while though, so maybe it has happened before. We have 3 or 4 games, I'd reckon. Seemingly everytime we butt heads and LLD likes to throw it all out there. I tend to agree with your characterization, however. Namely, LLD is completely unreadable at this point. If I have played with Jazz, I do not recollect. I should note, Vi, that as much as I prided myself on being able to recall players that I've played with over the years... time has finally started taking it's toll on me the past couple of years. The name looks so familiar, but I simply cannot recall anything of importance. That said, and I was blunt with you about this in the "does not exist" zone of pre-200, I'm completely cutting the "creep" back-and-forth out of my scumhunting. I'm neither giving nor subtracting townpoints from Jazz over it, for better or for worse. I'll take your word RE: Kinetic. Town Scummie recipient or not, his play thus far has stunk.

Obviously, calling the team isn't necessary. But, on my first pass, I'd say Today's lynch should be within {Master Zik, Juls, Plum}.

Swap Kinetic in for one of the ladies and I think you've got yourself a good group. The question for me is which lady it should be, and that is still too early for me to tell just yet.

[RedCoyote]

If it predates our first game, then it predates me.

As to having a preference RE: 3 or 4: No, not particularly.

As to singling out one poor soul for our collective wrath... I'm conflicted about that. That sounds awfully heavy. I can say with honesty that I'm not at that place yet this game. I think our inklings are , but that doesn't necessarily mean they're right.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: ugh, ignore the angel... I didn't realize that was an emoticon, lol

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP (x2): as in I literally typed in 'colon' 'good' 'colon' and hit submit

[RedCoyote]

Sal, don't wall unless you think it will help your alignment win this game. I don't want to go round and round with you unnecessarily.

Vi, did you read the bottom half of 198?

[RedCoyote]

I'm not flipping a read over necessarily (protip: see where my vote still is), but if you're asking me where I should make this ominous "cruel step" on page 9, I'm going to be reluctant. Perhaps we're hitting a language misunderstanding, however.

Vi, you know as well as I do, there's a balance in this game between too little interaction and too much insomuch as what's effective for the town overall. It's not the same every game. It's not the same with every player/player list... but it exists. You'll never know when you've hit that balance, but you'll know when you're far from getting there and you'll know when you've passed it long ago. Unfortunately, it's damn hard to tell when you're right at it.

[RedCoyote]

I guess the issue for me is what differentiates the "cruel step" from where we're at right now, hm? I take it to imply, maybe not necessarily an irrevocable vote, but maybe something close.

[RedCoyote]

I think that we've seen enough of each player's deliberate actions that I'm comfortable voting out any of the three players I named.

This is where we part ways. Maybe I'm being nitpicky, but I don't subscribe to this.

I will ride with you on any of those four, but I won't need anything "super-enlightening" to get me off (again, unless our mutual understanding of the English language fails me). Maybe I'm getting too lily-livered nowadays. I do realize this is D1, so, you know, what are we really doing striving for perfection anyway?

Eh, I don't know. I drew town this game. AKA I'm never going to be satisfied. AKA I'll second guess myself until I'm dragged kicking and screaming to the end.

UNVOTE: Plum; VOTE: Kinetic

I think RedCoyote has seen me be impressively wrong with my Town reads before (on him specifically)

If this isn't townVi, then townVi has learned how to play me like a fiddle while on sabbatical.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: then

scumVi

has learned how to play

[RedCoyote]

Sal, how can you say the words "all of a sudden" with a straight face after myself and Vi have been interacting over an entire page?

I just don't get how you continue to be this dense. Is this an act or something? I've never thought of you as someone that has had so much trouble reading between the lines before. I've played with you as scum before (twice as you have noted) and you are very slick... so this does not remind me of scumSal.

Your questions are so basic and uninteresting to me. It's like you're giving me an impression of someone's very first game as town? I'm not trying to insult you, but this is pretty level 1 stuff you're coming at me with.

[RedCoyote]

vez, can't find a wagon that suits you?

[RedCoyote]

Q is... town!

I'm not ready to say the same thing about Plum yet, but I do know I am glad I unvoted her and look forward to further contributions.

[RedCoyote]

Kinetic is also a scumread of mine. I believe that he's a partner with RedCoyote.

This post was the trigger

Seems rather unsubtle, wouldn't you say?

Additionally, RedCoyote's manner of doing so sounds convoluted and fake.

Alright, Zik, I've given you enough time to mess about. It's time to rein you in. These are just buzzwords. Again, I ask you to expand. I have no intention of leaving the Kinetic wagon for the forseeable future. Response?

Kinetic is at no threat of being lynched, and, as I suspect, not for a while longer.

The leading wagon has no threat of being lynched? He's at L-3 and at least a couple of other players have noted suspicion.

He also specifically called me out, because I was one of players voting him.

How convenient that you forgot to tell us about your mental note after I pointed it out. I called you out not because you were voting me, as you claim, but because your vote on me was due to "fluff". It stands to reason that that would be your

prima facie

observation of Kinetic's play. I found it peculiar that he was omitted given that you had such a negative reaction toward my "fluff", so much so that you're still lugging around a page 3 vote.

[RedCoyote]

I have gone through the thread and everyone's ISOs, so my reads are developing. At this point, several are in the neutral category, of course, but a few are scum-leaning and a couple are town-leaning.

That's a lot of Town-leaning reads you've got there.

omg I missed Vi so much

zakk replaces Kinetic

Nooooooo!!!!!!!!

[RedCoyote]

Sometimes I wonder if I am too casual... I can't find the balance between being too casual and being too serious. :/

[RedCoyote]

omg I missed Vi so much

This is vomit inducing. Vi might be town and she might be scum - more likely scum at this point since she has confirmed that she is content with posting silly non-responsive crap over actual content and she has shied away from answering legitimate questions - but why are you engaging in butt kissing instead of scum hunting?

Someone's jealous...

[RedCoyote]

I hope that's not addressed to me. I've got a lot more fluff to post. I know how much you and Zik like that.

[RedCoyote]

First off, and now I am getting serious, why are you the third person that is downplaying the Kinetic/zakk wagon? Kinetic replacing out has no bearing on the slot's alignment to me. If someone thinks it does, they ought to speak up.

That being said, zakk could very well change my mind depending on how he approaches this game. As I discussed with Vi, my vote is not set in stone. I'm open to moving it provided that I either get townreads off of the slot and/or get serious scumreads elsewhere. Neither of these qualifications have been met, however. Every other current wagon is pretty lame in comparison, all things considered.

[RedCoyote]

Sal, almost immediately after I disparaged your vez wagon, I kind of want to take that back after reading 289 and 291. I'll keep reading though.

[RedCoyote]

Albert, shouldn't you be busy creeping on young girls?

...damn it, Vi.

325 - 355 is all non-game related and will be treated as such by me. Frankly, this is very disappointing as I don't see how ABR/LLD/Jazz will be able to read each other objectively going forward.

---

Too much rhetoric, too little engagement. Interesting how you took my post, sliced it up, then regurgitated them without substance or value; instead of asking positive questions and attempting to divine my thought process, you deflect and are more focussed with defending yourself than to progressing the gamestate.

More buzzwords. Here's my response to you: No, I didn't.

No, it is none of the above. It is a deflection and essentially can be translated into "Yeah, but he's too conspicuous with that". Acknowledging my point, yet belittling its severity -- not a good sign.

It's not a deflection. I'm encouraging you to think about it seriously. It would be quite conspicuous, as you say, to align himself with me so openly. There's no real way for me to address this without getting into WIFOM territory.

Further, of course I am going to "belittle its severity". What the heck else would you expect me to do? Pat you on the back for how good you are at putting the pieces together RE: me and my scumpartner Kinetic?

The foreseeable future now includes a Kinetic replacement. You will be leaving the Kinetic wagon. This paragraph is no longer relevant.

It remains relevant as his replacing out has no bearing on my read. Does it change yours?

And so what? Wagons rise and fall multiple times during a Day Phase. The game's momentum is now shifting towards Jazzmyn/Vi. In your 7 years of playing Mafia, how many games did you observe the first major wagon of the day resulting in a lynch?

You say this out of one side of your mouth, yet you've been voting me since early on page three. How does this sort of hypocrisy bode well for you? If you were in my shoes, how would you consider it? Be honest.

Convenient it is. So be it. I had meant to associate him with you, but forgot to do so after writing my read on you. What is your point?

My point is that your initial reasons for voting me sound fake in light of your omissions, whether they be accidental or not.

---

It included the 'fluffiness' of many of her posts

The next person that non-ironically attacks someone for being "fluffy" may very well get my vote. This is nonsense, Jazz. There's a fine line between being overly fluffy and having fun in a game.

How would you like it if players attacked you for being too robotic? Believe me, I've seen players act scummy by being too fluffy. Nothing in this game comes close.

[RedCoyote]

Sal, why did you antagonize ABR after the situation was deescalating? Just drop it...

I wouldn't even bring this up expect that I have to wonder why you would kick a hornet's nest that does nothing to help the town.

[RedCoyote]

...damn it, Vi.
325 - 355 is all non-game related and will be treated as such by me. Frankly, this is very disappointing as I don't see how

ABR/LLD/Jazz

will be able to read each other objectively going forward.

Why have you omitted Vi from the bolded part even though you have previously identified Vi as the instigator?

Regards,
Jazz

Oh, because I don't think she realized it until after the fact. Plus she's a site moderator, so, rightly or wrongly, that carries a certain gravitas and impartiality.

Had I thought she was deliberately fanning the flames, however, I'd say as much.

[RedCoyote]

It is way too easy for scum to post mostly fluff in an effort to appear (artificially) active in a game, when their only real motive is to avoid being prodded or being called out as lurkers, etc.

I then implore you to explain to me how it is the case for Vi and not the case for Kinetic/zakk. Hell, zakk's first two opening posts are pure fluff, and yet you clearly pass over the opportunity to call him out on it in favor of Vi. At best, you know, maybe ~20% of the posts are a little fluffy. Compare that to 100% of zakk's posts so far...

No can do. I don't "believe" anyone who tries to tell me that I should just "believe" them without them posting anything of substance in respect of the matters that they want me buy into; I prefer to come to my own conclusions, thanks just the same, and I think that you are still continuing to be rather fluffy.

lolwut

It's a turn of phrase... you are overanalyzing and trying way too hard to appear town.

That strikes me as worthy of a spot in the top ten of worst possible rationales ever expressed in a game of mafia. You seem to be saying, on one hand, that because Vi is/was a mod on a quiet little site in a corner of the vast internet, you are willing to follow her willy nilly, and yet you imply, on the other hand, that she is so stupid that she didn't 'realize until after the fact' that she instigated the very thing that she clearly intended to instigate (and did in fact instigate from the outset), which she has not resiled from (nor should she) and which resulted in a derail of a game thread on the very same quiet little site in a corner of the vast internet.

This is completely unfair. I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but "top ten worst"? You aren't being fair at all.

Once again, my contention is that because Vi is a sitewide moderator that has to deal with scummers reporting posts and making decisions about banning/suspending players on a regular basis, she is necessarily more adept at compartmentalizing drama and seperating it from her Mafia player persona. Vi is the closest thing you have to an impartial player when it comes to an issue like this. Full stop.

Second, I'm not willing to follow her "willy nilly", which is a gross mischaracterization in order for you to make a cheap talking point. I was voting her and attempting to figure her out. I actually caught a lot of crap from Sal about it earlier this game. After deliberation and interaction with her, I've come to the conclusion that I'm confident enough to put her in the town pile for now. I didn't just follow her "willy nilly", as you are unfairly implying.

Third, there is no implication of stupidity. Those are your projections, which, again, I'm growing more and more warm to the idea is meant to make a cheap talking point than actually trying to figure the game out. My contention is that she didn't realize that she was more or less starting a big stink when using the 'c' word. That doesn't mean she's "so stupid" at all. It's completely unfair for you to characterize it that way.

This is a very bad post, Jazz. I'm disappointed in the direction you are going. I'd like to have a reasonable discussion with you. You don't need to succumb to cheap talking points unless you are scum.

---

I don't care. Ragefest disengaged me and literally all I remember is Jazz calling me (and you!) out for not posting enough when I had the same number of posts. And it ain't got better. That's a total I'm annoyed with Jazz vote, not a "I think you are scum" vote.

This is town. I'm still trying to parse why exactly Jazz is making these false attacks in multiple directions, but it's starting to look, as ABR pointed out, rather contrived.

I mean, to say that Vi as a site moderator is effectively no more qualified than anyone else to be impartial? And that I called her stupid? I mean, what? I had to do a double take.

---

She's adorable with her "Regards, Jazzmyn" signage.

What does her being adorable have to do with her alignment?

Continue discrediting my attacks with "More buzzwords". This is not the first time you've mentioned that.

You keep using buzzwords that mean nothing, I'll keep pointing them out.

No -- rhetorical question, don't answer that.

I wasn't planning to. It's also a loaded question, so there's that.

I would be expecting a town player to be responding with something from the scales of "No, you're wrong, and here's why:____" to "Fuck off". You have done none of what constitutes a town response.

...so you'd get better vibes off of me if I simply cursed at you?

Well, you'll have to settle for me trying to interact with you, instead. Further, me saying "no, you're wrong" is pretty redundant.

I correct myself -- it is not a lie. It is a misrepresentation and yet a subtle deflection from the original issue: whether you will be leaving the Kinetic wagon or not. The answer is: YES, you will be leaving the Kinetic wagon in the "foreseeable future".

You state this like it's inevitable when I was simply leaving my options open. zakk could convince me he's town, but he may not.

Okay, then let me put the shoe on the other foot. Whether you will be leaving my wagon or not. The answer is: YES, you will be leaving my wagon in the "foreseeable future" as no one will be joining you.

Where's the hypocrisy? I'd like you to explain alleged 'hypocrisy', because I don't see it.

It's hypocritical that you would attack me for staying on the zakk wagon, yet you've been on my wagon since page 3 and see no issue with that at all.

'Sound fake'? Once again another attempt to discredit my suspicions on you. So are my attacks on you 'fake' or not? What about it's validity? If you were town, you would be questioning its validity, not whether it 'sounds fake'. What, are you judging the quality of my argument? Is this a case-writing competition? A debate session?

I'm trying to assess whether you are attack me from a position of validity and therefore are genuinely scumhunting, or you are trying to attacking me unfairly and therefore are scum.

If something sounds fake, that's not a good sign. While I was open to the idea of you attacking me for being "fluffy" initially (I disagree, of course, but it was valid, I think), I've noticed that you've ignored similar traits in other players. This is not a good sign.

All of your responses to me have only attempted to argue one point, summarized into "Kinetic is not my scumbuddy". Instead of "I am not scum", the point you're feeding me here is "Kinetic is not my scumbuddy".

No, that was only one of the responses, the rest of the time has been spent on you making wild stretches and poor points against me that I have been successfully defending against.

[RedCoyote]

Really liked zakk's catchup post.

Like, really did. I was actually taken aback as it's nothing like what I got from him the last time I played with him.

UNVOTE: zakk

That's not to say he can't fake it, naturally. I will cut him some slack, however. I think it's a good enough post to bring that slot back up for me in a lot of ways.

VOTE: vezokpiraka

I haven't said much about vez, but Sal turned me onto him a few pages ago. I have no idea what Vi is saying when she says 447 sounds super townie. I don't think it goes one way or the other. Truth be told, I agree with it though. I disagree with a lot of what zakk says in that post, but I'm really impressed by it nonetheless.

[RedCoyote]

Votecount 1.13

Albert B. Rampage - 1 (SleepyKrew)
Jazzmyn - 1 (vezok)
Juls
Lady Lambdadelta
Master Zik
Plum - 3 (Juls, zakk, Vi)
Quaroath
RedCoyote
Salamence20
SleepyKrew
vezokpiraka - 3 (LLD, Quaroath)
Vi - 4 (Jazzmyn, Salamence20, Master Zik, ABR)
zakk - 2 (Plum, RedCoyote)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is (expired on 2015-07-06 12:00:00)

Thank you to everyone for bearing with me during this time of trial where I CAN'T DO A SINGLE FUCKING VOTECOUNT CORRECTLY THE FIRST TIME

I can't resist the urge to tell you that it's still incorrect as there's a three by vez's name and only two names adjacent.

____________________________________________

RedCoyote has been modkilled. He was an

Unaligned ASSHOLE

[RedCoyote]

Plum + SK ought to join the vez party as I think this is the best wagon at the moment.

[RedCoyote]

This post will be my last prod dodge.

I'll give 4 to 1 odds that it won't be. Any takers?

[RedCoyote]

Where, specifically?

386

Self-preservation, scum, or just terrible?

That vote reeks.

[RedCoyote]

Wtf Vi?

You've played with me before. You are very good at scumhunting. So why the vote on me? This happens every game where I'm town. Scum pile up on me.

The thing is I know I'm town. It doesn't make sense for Vi to vote me at all.

vez, this is the only thing you've really had to say about Vi all game prior to your vote.

I think a lot of us have played with you before and know full well that you're a consummate vote magnet, that doesn't say anything about your alignment this game, however.

The last two sentences are the most offputting for me. "I know I'm town, so Vi should, too" is the best way I can parse it. Now, I know English isn't your first language, so I'd be willing to let you elaborate a bit more and tell me if I am misinterpreting that.

[RedCoyote]

last time I played with him

I don't remember ever playing with you.

You were probably drunk.

---

Wtf Vi?

You've played with me before. You are very good at scumhunting. So why the vote on me? This happens every game where I'm town. Scum pile up on me.

The thing is I know I'm town. It doesn't make sense for Vi to vote me at all.

vez, this is the only thing you've really had to say about Vi all game prior to your vote.

I think a lot of us have played with you before and know full well that you're a consummate vote magnet, that doesn't say anything about your alignment this game, however.

The last two sentences are the most offputting for me. "I know I'm town, so Vi should, too" is the best way I can parse it. Now, I know English isn't your first language, so I'd be willing to let you elaborate a bit more and tell me if I am misinterpreting that.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, duh, ignore my 519. I forgot I already posted that.

[RedCoyote]

:/

Love you, vez, but it's time for you to be lynched.

[RedCoyote]

I've got two responses to what Sal just wrote. I'll write them both so it will be kind of like a choose your own adventure thing.

1) You know, Sal, I have games on this website that didn't include you. I've played with some of the people in this game before in games that didn't include you. You realize this, yes?

OR

2) Yes, Sal, I'm scum. How come you don't have the balls to keep your vote on me? Why are you wasting time beating around the bush?

[RedCoyote]

You were supposed to choose one, slick.

I'll say whatever I damn well please to vez. Or Vi. Or LLD. Or you. Get it?

[RedCoyote]

I didn't follow the game much after I died. Good job, scum. gg all.