Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Bulbazoor]

Hello guys. Will start reading into this game asap.

[Bulbazoor]

Ok, here are my reads for D1, So far:
...

You forgot me (and only me). I guess I haven't posted much so it is understandable.

but saying "hi" is the most innocuous, neutral thing a player can say.

I think that might be the point, that scum would say the most neutral thing possible.

Wouldn't a scum want to appear town, rather than neutral?

I guess I mean scum would want to draw the least amount of attention to themselves as possible.

You see, I find it weird that you are saying this. You seem to be neutralizing every type of statement that anyone is saying. I see scum doing this to avoid any attention unto them.
The rest of your posts seem to come from a fillery perspective since all your posts seem to be about RVs and activity.
VOTE: stoz

[stoz]

Stoz- I'm really bothered. He looks like he's lost so I could understand it from a newbie in his first game but hes already been in one. It looks more like scum feigning lost but it's not something i'm totally confident in

I like to seek clarification from people. Even when what someone says seems obvious, sometimes they actually mean something different, especially as they are sometimes making assumptions about how people play Mafia and some of those people have not been playing very long at all. Less ambiguity also gives less opportunities for scum to hide or twist their previous posts into something different.

Ok, here are my reads for D1, So far:
...

You forgot me (and only me). I guess I haven't posted much so it is understandable.

but saying "hi" is the most innocuous, neutral thing a player can say.

I think that might be the point, that scum would say the most neutral thing possible.

Wouldn't a scum want to appear town, rather than neutral?

I guess I mean scum would want to draw the least amount of attention to themselves as possible.

You see, I find it weird that you are saying this. You seem to be neutralizing every type of statement that anyone is saying. I see scum doing this to avoid any attention unto them.
The rest of your posts seem to come from a fillery perspective since all your posts seem to be about RVs and activity.
VOTE: stoz

You are way off base. In the example above, notsience was suspicious of VeeGee (your slot) because he opened with a "Hi". HCL said that the "Hi" didn't matter, and I disagreed with HCL saying that perhaps notscience was right. I am not neutralising anything, I am agreeing with the initial theory that NotScience put forward.

And let me get this straight, Bulbazoor replaces into a slot that we were already putting pressure on, sees that NotScience finds me suspicious and so jumps in too. Except there are no votes on me yet so he dodges any accusations of jumping on the bandwagon. Nice try.

Also keep in mind that is it not uncommon for newbie scum to replace out when they are under pressure.

Finger of Suspicion: Bulbazoor

[notscience]

Newbies replace out all the time.

Replace outs are null.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Newbies replace out all the time.

Replace outs are null.

I agree, I don't think that's a legitimate way to scumhunt.

I like the first part of stoz's response post to Bulbazoor- voting based off the post he cited and the vague reference to "neutralizing" seems like a stretch to me. However, I do think stoz got overly defensive in the last two paragraphs of his post. For one thing, I don't really think there was a lot of pressure on VeeGee before he replaced out- he had two votes on him (three away from a lynch) and people's suspicion of him seemed to stem solely from his lack of posting. I think stoz characterizes the pressure on VeeGee as being more than what it actually was.

I was interested to see that Bulbazoor didn't have more to say in his post. I had at least expected a comment on the exchange between myself and Thespio. The fact that Bulbazoor had enough confidence to place a vote leads me to believe he read through the entire game so I'd be interested to see if he has any other reads.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1.7

MEAN TWEETS

HenryCabotLodge

(2): JoramvanVugt, Thespio

Thespio

(2): Micc, HenryCabotLodge

Bulbazoor

(2): notscience, StubbsKVM

stoz

(1): Bulbazoor

Not Voting

(2): stoz, Akuseru

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: July 19, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-07-18 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Akuseru]

I like to seek clarification from people.

umm...can I ask when/where you've attempted to gather clarification?

[Bulbazoor]

As for my reads being crap, you're scum because you declared me to be "obvious" scum after making a career out of castigating me and then removed your vote on me claiming that it was in the interest of hearing from more people. I think it's because you realize your case on me failed to gain any momentum and you don't want to seem unreasonable pushing me when nobody else is doing so.

JoramvanVugt is scummy because he voted me for voting somebody in my first post (something which he also did- except mine was in the random voting stage, If you're unfamiliar that's where random votes are cast) then he proceeded to regurgitate the arguments you presented against me. Moreover, he also expressed a desire for me to roleclaim on the third page when I wasn't in any danger of being lynched which is asinine and would be completely detrimental to the town. The roleclaim attemp from joram could be rolefishing, but then again he could have been making a newbie mistake.

This is more than just OMGUS which is what you seem to be intimating.

I think this is not a good argument on joram because newbies can do that and there never is any telling on what newbies can do. I still think that omgus is not necessarily a scumtell or a towntell. I think you are on to something about ttheespio since the unvote can give us a tell on his alignment. I hate how you went overly defensive on the accusations though. It just seemed weird like how you react to simple accusations.

[HenryCabotLodge]

As for my reads being crap, you're scum because you declared me to be "obvious" scum after making a career out of castigating me and then removed your vote on me claiming that it was in the interest of hearing from more people. I think it's because you realize your case on me failed to gain any momentum and you don't want to seem unreasonable pushing me when nobody else is doing so.

JoramvanVugt is scummy because he voted me for voting somebody in my first post (something which he also did- except mine was in the random voting stage, If you're unfamiliar that's where random votes are cast) then he proceeded to regurgitate the arguments you presented against me. Moreover, he also expressed a desire for me to roleclaim on the third page when I wasn't in any danger of being lynched which is asinine and would be completely detrimental to the town. The roleclaim attemp from joram could be rolefishing, but then again he could have been making a newbie mistake.

This is more than just OMGUS which is what you seem to be intimating.

I think this is not a good argument on joram because newbies can do that and there never is any telling on what newbies can do. I still think that omgus is not necessarily a scumtell or a towntell. I think you are on to something about ttheespio since the unvote can give us a tell on his alignment. I hate how you went overly defensive on the accusations though. It just seemed weird like how you react to simple accusations.

Yea I'm taking Joram's newbieness into account which is part of why I'm voting for Thespio over him. I don't think I went overly defensive on the accusations- I was called "obvious scum" barely a few pages into the game based on a complete misrepresentation of my posts.

[Micc]

Whoo tgi friday.

Im going to read and post like right now.

[Micc]

I don't usually do the whole stream of consciousness thing but since i havent read any of this and phone quotes suck ill to for it.

Re: thespo and HenryCabotLodge on page 4.
I still don't think the logic from Thespio here is very strong. I see the contradiction hes trying to point out but I dont see anything scummy about it. I wish HCL would have put down a real vote when he unvoted but meh Thespio unvote a page later doesn't make sense either.

And it goes on... I like Thespio for scum still. His case isnt strong at all and the unvote revote doesnt feel natural for town.

Re akuseru on IC/SE
Yeah, sorry. Family closed on a duplex tuesday and long story short the timeline got all fudged up and its been a ton of work to get ready to rent out by the 15th. After this weekend things will be better on my end.

[Micc]

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game. i dont know a lot about maffia and came here to learn. some help would be amazing instead of omg he is guilty cause he didnt do this little thing like all other players do. I dont know how maffia is being played on this site. i still need to learn all of that. so sorry if i dont do things like you guys want me to..

I found that reading other games was a really good way to get an idea of what game of mafia looks/feels like. The wiki also has stuff to look at if that sort of thing interests you. If you have specific questions, please ask away, but its hard to respond to "ahh what am i supposed to do" type questions.

Pro tip for all you quote wall fans: use spoilers tags!

Code: Select all

[spoiler=title]This is a spoiler[/spoiler]

Spoiler: title

This is a spoiler

Stubbs criticism of Thespio pushing a policy lynch and then voting vegee caught my eye. I see confirm and quit newbie votes as policy lynch votes so ill probably have to come back at look at that again.

...
Notscience underwhelming after an oddly fast start. Idk what to think.
And bulbazoor replaces vegee. Welcome!

Vote on stoz maker sense. I dont remember much from him and the under theradar post is ironic. Stoz response doesn't make me feel comfortable about him either.

...and ive kind of read everything. I'll be back tomorrow but now i need to sleep.

[StubbsKVM]

@Micc: I'm not pushing for a lynch, I'm pushing for content.

You might start giving us some reads yourself.

HCL and NS are in my townpile.

Bulbazoor's entrance is okay, but not getting those warm fuzzy feelings yet.

I want to see more from Joram, but I fear he has abandoned the game.

UNVOTE:

for now

[Bulbazoor]

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

I was right though, all talk of veegee and other lurkers/afks have been dropped while we examine HCL and accusers. Its not that im new i just see that this is the way we are shifting. Though looking at HCL's previous part game, he plays just about the same now as he did in that game, and in that game he was town. While its not a good way to play, shifting views so freely, it seems on par to his previous town play. What are your guys thoughts on the other less active players?

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

This seems so eager to shrep other people and bandwagons made. It just makes me uncomfortable.

[Thespio]

@Micc: I'm not pushing for a lynch, I'm pushing for content.

You might start giving us some reads yourself.

HCL and NS are in my townpile.

Bulbazoor's entrance is okay, but not getting those warm fuzzy feelings yet.

I want to see more from Joram, but I fear he has abandoned the game.

UNVOTE:

for now

I'm on the same page micc is quick to condemn but slow to actually give reads. He is pretty focused on burning me for giving reads...

[Micc]

@Micc: I'm not pushing for a lynch, I'm pushing for content.

You might start giving us some reads yourself.

HCL and NS are in my townpile.

Bulbazoor's entrance is okay, but not getting those warm fuzzy feelings yet.

I want to see more from Joram, but I fear he has abandoned the game.

UNVOTE:

for now

So you voted in order to pressure the slot when it was empty, but now that the player has been replaced you unvote and remove the pressure? Hows that make sense?

Ill post reads as i have them. Ive hardly done any real analysis besides having posts I like and posts I dont. It wont all come together until i do a better read through.

[Micc]

I'm on the same page micc is quick to condemn but slow to actually give reads. He is pretty focused on burning me for giving reads...

Condemn? Not sure exactly what you mean by that. When i see stuff i don't like it makes me want to go back and look for scum motivation. Sometimes its there, sometimes its not, but I don't see what your issue is.

Is it that I haven't outright stated reads? Cause I think that would be a rather silly reason to be upset with a person who has openly admitted they committed enough time to reading to this point.

And thats not what my issue with you was...so yeah.

[StubbsKVM]

@Micc: I'm not pushing for a lynch, I'm pushing for content.

You might start giving us some reads yourself.

HCL and NS are in my townpile.

Bulbazoor's entrance is okay, but not getting those warm fuzzy feelings yet.

I want to see more from Joram, but I fear he has abandoned the game.

UNVOTE:

for now

So you voted in order to pressure the slot when it was empty, but now that the player has been replaced you unvote and remove the pressure? Hows that make sense?

Ill post reads as i have them. Ive hardly done any real analysis besides having posts I like and posts I dont. It wont all come together until i do a better read through.

Bulba already posted and I am not scumreading the slot, why do I need to keep voting?

[stoz]

Newbies replace out all the time.

Replace outs are null.

I'm partly going off my first (and only) game when I say that. In my first game (1605) we had 3 people replace out of which 2 were scum.

I like to seek clarification from people.

umm...can I ask when/where you've attempted to gather clarification?

Here:

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

Is that a policy lynch? Or are there reasons you think he is scum?

[JoramvanVugt]

Im still here. just have nothing to share at the moment and im feeling kinda sick

[Micc]

Bulba already posted and I am not scumreading the slot, why do I need to keep voting?

Im more curious to know why you voted in the first place. Can you explain why you bothered pressuring the slot when it was empty if you didn't see it as scummy?

Im still here. just have nothing to share at the moment and im feeling kinda sick

How do you intend to form opinions worth sharing? What do you think the best way to find scum is?

[Thespio]

Bulba already posted and I am not scumreading the slot, why do I need to keep voting?

Im more curious to know why you voted in the first place. Can you explain why you bothered pressuring the slot when it was empty if you didn't see it as scummy?

Im still here. just have nothing to share at the moment and im feeling kinda sick

How do you intend to form opinions worth sharing? What do you think the best way to find scum is?

This is a waste of time, he wasnt the one who started the pressure science was, it would make sence he would remove his vote since it wasnt a slot he was reading as scum, he was just bandwagonning with our suspicions, although he ended up abandoning not lurking. I want to know why science is lurking so hard.

[Micc]

i want to know why youre answering questions that aren't addressed to you.

[StubbsKVM]

i want to know why youre answering questions that aren't addressed to you.

because it's a waste of time, he just said it.

I already explained my vote and why I retracted it. Are you going to actually scumhunt this game or are you going to keep asking questions that have already been answered?

VOTE: Joram

Third time: Answer my question please...

[Micc]

No you haven't explained why you made the vote in the first place. From your recent posts I have gathered that you are not scum reading the slot. I don't understand what the point of pressuring an empty slot to post is, if you don't actually find that sort of thing scummy.

And this interaction is scum hunting so stop try to push the idea that Im waisting time. If you don't have an answer that makes sense Im going to assume you made the vote in order to look productive and follow the momentum of the game...to blend in. I find those things scummy.

I get upset when I see other people come in and answer my questions because 9 times out of 10 it will affect their answer. In this case Thespio gave Stubbs support to blow off the question which I dont think would have been his natural answer.