Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Thespio]

I agree bulba needs to explain himself.

and no im not saying that him replacing out means we should or shouldnt look at him, he may be abandoning this game though, so we should wait the 24 hrs for the outcome of the prod before jumping on him. if he isnt being replaced then it means he is lurking and ill vote him. If he is being replaced i will wait and further read the new Stubbs.

[Bulbazoor]

When I read stoz as scum, there were alot of factors. Firstly, stoz was being very scummy in his way of posting and his beginniing was not the best one. He basically fluffed about mechanics until I called him out and he started getting defensive and more into the game. That was overall what shaped my read on him. The omgus and the jokes did not help improve it one bit, which is why I was reluctant to move on to joram. I did move to him in the end, but rethought and decided that stoz was still a good lynch. Not is bugging me even more today for their way of explaining. I see everything, or almost everything they post, as an attempt to explain themselves instead of the game, as if they are hiding information and do not want to fall into traps. I am not proud of lynching a townie..

[Thespio]

VOTE: Bulba Bulba please explain your vote on notscience, please also give reads.

PEDIT:

Spoiler:

He basically fluffed about mechanics until I called him out and he started getting defensive and more into the game. That was overall what shaped my read on him.

So you killed someone because they didnt want to die and defended themselves?

[Bulbazoor]

No. I thought that the overall fluff until I called him out was weird.

[Thespio]

No. I thought that the overall fluff until I called him out was weird.

But you just said:

He basically fluffed about mechanics until I called him out and he started getting defensive and more into the game. That was overall what shaped my read on him.

If it wasnt about him being defensive and it was more about fluff then why not just say "he was all fluff"?

[Thespio]

Bulba reads, and explanation for NS, pls.

[Bulbazoor]

Aku is def town. I liked their engagement in day one. That really stands out to me, it was their overall impartiality. They asked questions equally to everyone. Aku scum tends to hide. Atleast that is what I think akuseru scum may do.

Theespio is null. I think this is a weird slot overall. The push that there is a cop is strange. There is no one to confirm there is a cop, but the cop themselves. He also wanted to lynch joram, one of my townreads

HCL is town. The whole " bws create reactions" was a good idea and we should use it today to get reactions from people like stubbs and maybe espio. I also liked how he comes up with things that benefit us as a whole town, not any antitown things that scum tend to say or come up with. What might rub me the wrong way, is the vote on my slot for saying hi. Maybe he did not know about site mechanics and random voting stage.

Joram is town. I alrady stated my reasoning. It has not changed.

Not and stubbs are scum. Not reasoning is above. Stubbs has been what I call scum play. They lurk, hide, and they sheep the general majority. I need to see stubbs in order for my read to change on him.

[Thespio]

I appreciate the reads but... You didnt give a notscience read, why are you voting him?

[Bulbazoor]

Not is bugging me even more today for their way of explaining. I see everything, or almost everything they post, as an attempt to explain themselves instead of the game, as if they are hiding information and do not want to fall into traps.

[Thespio]

Ah, i see it was in the stubbs read. Justify yourself please. Go through your actions and list the motives as town then as scum, I will do the same:

Attacked HCL:
Scum - wanted a mislynch
Town - Thought HCL was suspicious and didnt read Veegee as scum.
Most Likely - Town: a veegee lynch could have been obtained if he piled on, but instead he went else where.

Began looking at everyone else:
Scum - trying to shift attention off self
Town - Wanted to find scum
Most Likely - Town: looks like Scum Hunting

Tried to Lynch Joram:
Scum - Wanted a mislynch on easy target because he had decieved he would go down easy enough
Town - Thought his deception was super suspicious and scum read his activities and thus justified lynching him
Most Likely - Either/or

Voted for Notscience:
Scum - N/A
Town - Not was the only one adamant that Stoz should be lynched.
Most Likely: town - There was no support when he jumped on not's wagon before stoz's lynch

Voted for Bulba:
Scum - wants a mislynch that will be harder to produce then if he just piled on not.
Town - sees bulba as suspicious because he is slow to reveal information and has weak reads.
Most Likely: Town - Not would be easy lynch but he is pushing bulba instead.

your turn.

[Thespio]

Bulba?

[Bulbazoor]

Attacked stoz:
Scum - wanted a mislynch
Town - Sees stoz as a suspicious slot.
Most Likely - Town: If I saw stoz as supicious, why would I want mislynch if I thought he was scum?

Voted stoz
Scum- Pressed mislynch
Town- Voted for a scumread
Most Likely- Town- Stoz was not an easy lynch to push if I was scum. If I was scum, it would put me in a dangerous position.

Scumread stubbs:
Scum- wants to lynch an easy target
Town - Thinks that the slot is not being productive.
Most Likely - Town- No one is supporting a stubbs wagon zx much as a not wagon.

Voted for Notscience:
Scum - Wants to push not for town cred after yesterday. Also could be trying to join the easy wagon if not is town.
Town - Not was the scummiest besides stoz yesterday, so town me voted him.
Most Likely: town - Not pushing not wagon enough for scum.

I used your format btw.

[Bulbazoor]

I could have also pressed stubbs, who is a far easier lynch than not.

[Thespio]

Thats fine, my format is gods format, one sec im reading it

[Micc]

How about instead of analyzing ourselves like this we start analyzing our scum reads like this.

Bulba pls do NS. Thanks.

Predit: lol

[Thespio]

Attacked stoz:
Scum - wanted a mislynch
Town - Sees stoz as a suspicious slot.
Most Likely - Town: If I saw stoz as supicious, why would I want mislynch if I thought he was scum?

Voted stoz
Scum- Pressed mislynch
Town- Voted for a scumread
Most Likely- Town- Stoz was not an easy lynch to push if I was scum. If I was scum, it would put me in a dangerous position.

Alright so here i would have said most likely scum not town, reason: Stubbs was not in hot water when the Stoz wagon started, and Stoz immidately was put in hot water by notscience and you, this was a pretty easy lynch seeing as you refused to remove your vote. Infact you kept saying you wouldnt but then did.

Scumread stubbs:
Scum- wants to lynch an easy target
Town - Thinks that the slot is not being productive.
Most Likely - Town- No one is supporting a stubbs wagon zx much as a not wagon.

I think this is more likely null/scum reason being, Micc was a strong advocate against stubbs. you would have had support from HCL and myself as well, this is easy town credit.

Voted for Notscience:
Scum - Wants to push not for town cred after yesterday. Also could be trying to join the easy wagon if not is town.
Town - Not was the scummiest besides stoz yesterday, so town me voted him.
Most Likely: town - Not pushing not wagon enough for scum.

I feel this is kinda hurting you as well, you should be honest in what is most likely, you think that you looking at him bad is less likely then a strategy to gain town cred? I like that you put this here because it looks like that is what is happening.

PEDIT:
@micc there was a reason for the self analysis

[Bulbazoor]

I am being honest in what I thought

[Thespio]

if you were me, you would think that this:
Not was the scummiest besides stoz yesterday, so you voted him.

was more likely then:
Wants to push not for town cred after yesterday. Also could be trying to join the easy wagon if not is town.

[Thespio]

How about instead of analyzing ourselves like this we start analyzing our scum reads like this.

Bulba pls do NS. Thanks.

Predit: lol

he did NS, its hidden in with the Stoz explanation.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Or at least show me a case that actually points to him being scum. Not one that points to why you dont like his play.

Most of my issues with notscience can be found in my post [post=#<349>]349[/post] where I voted him on day 1. To summarize, I didn't like the way he pushed for the Stoz lynch, the way his playstyle had changed from earlier in the day, and the fact that he'd been able to be aloof through most of the day without offering enough to scrutinize. Not to mention the fact that he actually seemed willing to lynch VeeGee (the former holder of Bulba's slot) based off of him saying "hi" (something I still seem to get flak for even though my vote was first and at random). I know citing something that early in the game can seem like nitpicking, but I think it matters.

Spoiler:

Nothing to oadd, micc said he wants to lynch between 3 people and it's time to consolidate and you are the only person on that list i''m not townreading, so!

You seem eager to lynch Stoz. I think he's scummy myself, but I don't see you explicitly state reasons other than that you scumread him (which can easily be deduced). We have two days to deadline, why rush into this?

Because I don't want a last second deadline flashwagon?

But could the same logic be applied to notscience who has played in a similar manner

Not really. notscience does post content. He gets town points in my books for pointing out Joram's cop bait/call out. I'm still wary of players like him though. Still can't read him o.o

I'm a special snowflake

It's not intended to be condescending.

I had explained it already a few times.

That being said, I will state it again- I am trying to consolidate for deadline. I am not townreading stoz.

The two other decent sized wagons are on people I am townreading

And deadline flashlynches are way too easy for scum to control.

Thespio is basically some of the aggression and his constant shopping around seems town

Stubbs is primarily gut, I didn't really hate his reaction to you.

Stop the adhom.

I will be here later.

Tl;dr why joram is town-

First and foremost, what scum thinks "hey, I will take the pm from the OP and claim that it was my role pm? hint- they don't. That's a town thing, he knows he's town, he knows his role pm is town and its like "fuck how do I prove it to these people"

That being said, stoz's repeated discredits of hsi wagon are noted.

Hell I'm one of the people whiteknighting the fuck out of joram, why would he, as scum, scumread me? He has no reason to. As scum he would know I'm town defending him, he has no reason to call me scum. It's because he's town and the defense worries him.

So no.

We aren't lynching him.

Thats interesting because me scanning his ISO reveals a ton of posts of NS explaining reads and votes. I stopped quoting, but there is more.

He had a reason for wanting to vote stoz. I can understand if you think its a bad reason but trying to pretend he never had one is silly.

What is silly is you dodging the question at the end of my post while still pushing this case.

I guess I just thought his reasoning for pushing Stoz was flimsy. He seemed to put more effort into his case for Joram being town than Stoz being town, which I thought was telling. My biggest issue with his Stoz case was how he criticized Stoz's list of reads in post [post=#<201>]201[/post] because they were based mainly on activity, but in his post [post=#<241>]241[/post] he posts a list of reads with no elaboration. I know we're supposed to use "context clues" to divine notscience's reasoning, but I don't understand what being so coy about it accomplishes.

HCL is town. The whole " bws create reactions" was a good idea and we should use it today to get reactions from people like stubbs and maybe espio. I also liked how he comes up with things that benefit us as a whole town, not any antitown things that scum tend to say or come up with. What might rub me the wrong way, is the vote on my slot for saying hi. Maybe he did not know about site mechanics and random voting stage.

As I understand it, the random voting stage is like a free for all period at the beginning of the game where people cast non-serious votes. The "I don't care for your tone" part of my post was meant to be a joke (I guess I'm not funny).

Micc's points about Stubbs are duly noted. I'm not willing to switch my vote on notscience until I've heard from Stubbs or his replacement, though. I also don't like how rapidly Detective Thespio changes his vote- to me, it reads like he has no real confidence in them and it seems like a convenient way to attach himself to a lot of different bandwagons. I do not currently scumread him, though.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Apologies for mangling the post quoting format.

[Thespio]

@HCL I love reading your posts because they may be spread out, but they are in depth.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Thespio, I'm just thrilled that you don't think I'm a bad mafia player anymore! May I ask what's changed?

[Thespio]

Thespio, I'm just thrilled that you don't think I'm a bad mafia player anymore! May I ask what's changed?

Just getting used to your play style. So what are your thoughts on bulba.

[Thespio]

? not .