Mini 1687: Refraction Mafia (WINNER!)

[Lapsa]

Perhaps there is a scum roleblocker on the two-man scum team? And they are blocking the 1-man team.

that's another reason for going after 2scum team

A Mafia Roleblocker may or may not be allowed to perform the mafia kill the same Night they are also performing a roleblock. (This applies to other Mafia roles as well.)
The decision of whether to allow the last Mafioso to kill and use their role at the same time is usually based on what would make the game better-balanced.
For example, in Newbie games, the Mafia Roleblocker is allowed to perform both in one night.

there's even chance that mafia roleblocker is unable to kill == no more NKs

but I'm unsure about presence of scum roleblocker. that implies perfect read on BBT's partner since N2

seems more likely that both factions just target most obvious town (Plot, Pers, Frog)

or 1-man team does nothing

[Lapsa]

according to my reads...

peculiar thing is that Thor/Bella team absolutely needs my vote. and it has to be on Tool

Shin lynching town == him losing

Tex is lynch immune because of Frogs death

attacking Lapsa would be awkward considering claimed investigation results. only GF!Lapsa fits that. also - explains why he helplessly discredits me by going 'Oh dear gawd.'

I'm leaning towards a lynch of

Tool or Shinobi

. I reckon if one of them flips town we can consider Bella and Lapsa as possible additional scum.
I'm leaning towards 3 scum start - two remaining, and it is making sense to me that a GF is probably in play just considering the combo of my role, Pers' role, and who the scum felt it was worth shooting thus far.
The extra kill...I dunno, leaning some sort of scum 1-shot ability for an extra kill? That would actually help make the balance make sense - double scum or an SK is making basically no sense at this stage.

bussing Bella would be awkward (Thor, wanna do it?):

@Lapsa - what is the case, in your mind, on Bella? I have him as townish.

without me, ball² is stuck with no-lynch

the only real alternative for Thor/Bella team is lynching Shinobi

You're going to have to give me more than telling me his entrance is bad.
Threats aren't going to work either.
What do you have?

I'll admit that I'm still feeling Bella as my top lynch atm, though.

so yeah, Shinobi - that's what I got. take it or leave it

[Lapsa]

2town vs 2separated scum
*no-lynch*
town wins / 2separated scum remaining / 1town 2separated scum remaining

^ scum teams already here are forced to hit each other

1town vs 2separated scum
*no-lynch*
town wins / 2separated scum remaining / 1town 1scum

Wait, what? Lapsa, assuming it IS multi-ball, and if you believe your latest POE, and I'm scum with Thor (which, I'm not) then lynching me is anti-town anyway: you'll have two killing factions going into night. We need to hit BBT's partner - who you believe is Shin - but instead you are gonna vote with Shin to kill the 'other scum' to enable scum to have two scum-kills tonight, instead of one. I don't get your train of thought here at all.

Weirdly, the youtube videos aren't helping. Why is there no follow-up to scenario 1?

Tool's point about the not killing the other scum is also interesting, hadn't thought of that.

[Lapsa]

Shin Shin Shin Shinobi

[Lapsa]

without me, ball2 is stuck with no-lynch

No - that is only true if the scum team is exactly who you think it is.
You're using a conclusion to define a proof. It's a fallacy.

only if I use "ball2 is stuck with no-lynch" as a premise for defining proof which I don't. not yet

gtfo scrub

[Lapsa]

attacking Lapsa would be awkward considering claimed investigation results. only GF!Lapsa fits that. also - explains why he helplessly discredits me by going 'Oh dear gawd.'

My bad - I thought you were analyzing game states and appropriate lynches based off your theory of the scum team. If it was just noise to be ignored then no worries.

rekt

[Lapsa]

Pointing out that I had issues with your playstyle on Day 4 when I announced that I did on Day 1?
Brilliant prediction of my thoughts.

no. pointing out that You're done shit.

[Lapsa]

I have indicated that I am not fond of his playstyle.
My current read on him is 'a disagreeable playstyle that i hard to read and offers nothing to assess.'

Rekt?

wrecked. badly situated

[Lapsa]

Okay.

bye bye. see you soon!

[Lapsa]

Thoughts?

the only real alternative for Thor/Bella team is lynching Shinobi

[Lapsa]

but still willing to switch to Shinobi

according to my theory - you should not. that would eliminate team scum1 and lead BellaThor to victory

[Lapsa]

thank you, Shin

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa: why do you think shinobi is partners with BBT?

Thor/Tool day4 conflict seemed unnatural -> scum involved, myself waiting and observing before going for a strike

mostly #2422

as I see it - Thor wrote that before anyone really attacked his credibility,
so it feels to me as too early for a Bellabus

-------------------------------------by backward induction:

above mentioned point makes me think that bussing in multiball situation like i've described must be avoided at all cost.

#2410 kind a strengthens idea of Shin+BBT.
at that point - 1man scum team would be more interested to scumhunt instead of going for a mislynch.

tricky part is that Shin is unlikely to know BellaThor for sure - that could explain Shin's reluctance to vote early Day4

Why is Bella town?
Why is Tool scum?

Tool, if you don't trust Thor's claim then why did you ever trust him in the first place?

this actually can be qualified as an attack on Thor by my completely confbiased mind

Shin might be with Thor.
BBT is not with Thor. (No post link. Just all of D1)

BBT might be with Bella. 978
Thor could be with Bella.
Shin can't be with Bella. 288 / 369

Thor could be with Shin.
Bella is probably not with Shin.
BBT is probably not with Shin.
If Shin is scum, his only possible partner is Thor.

Shin can't be with BBT.
Thor can't be with BBT. (D1 train push)

That means BBT is either with Bella or Tool.

So, potential teams are:
[BBT+Tool] -> [Thor + Bella] or [Thor + Shin]. (Bella + Shin is excluded)
[BBT+Bella] -> [Thor + Shin] or [Thor + Tool]. (Shin + Tool is excluded)
The take away here is that Thor is PoE lock scum if it's a 2+2 multiball.

Zor's reads are actually what bothers me most.

according to Zor:

#978 is supposed to indicate BellaBBT:

Zor, you have one day. Bella is not happening, join me on Thor please.

as I see it - Thor!BBT disasociation here takes precedence over Bella+BBT. kind a valid point though

I can't understand why Zor sees Shin!Bella because of #288.

#369 seems to be kind a valid point for Shin!Bella association. but that's not a contradiction

summary - not enough to change my mind though

that's for starters, Tool

[Lapsa]

ehh... bit later, Shin. just finished #2541

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa, you know there's an alternative you aren't considering?

I don't make sense as a scum partner for Shin

I don't make sense as a scum partner for Thor

I'm not scum. I'm also interested in Shin's question.

I'm at l-1, still vt.

you make sense as Thor partner

if I have to choose between Tex, Tool and you, it's definitely you

no wonder you are

[Lapsa]

DON'T READ THIS

Lapsa why do you think Tool is town?

reminds me Zor - covert and discrete voice of truth

Tool ripped Thor apart and Thor is leaking heavily:

The extra kill...I dunno, leaning some sort of scum 1-shot ability for an extra kill?

That they used...on themselves?

That's a good point, actually.
Limited shot SK?
I don't think we have an unclaimed protective at this stage, and the only other possibility is scum either always targeting the same or one of the teams lurking enough not to submit kills by accident/or doing so intentionally.
The latter seems highly unlikely on all points, and the former, though I've seen, is also weird.

no fucking way Thor would ever miss that or post unintentionally. there is no town intent for doing so
forced reconciliation is the name. just like his vote. to silence Tool

not submitting kills by accident? really?

and no, Thor, you haven't seen unclaimed

town

protective at this stage of the game. roleblocker thing bugs me too

2* toolenduso

general vibe 32

haven't changed since then

[Lapsa]

in contrast, this is how it should be done properly:

I claim Godfather

[Lapsa]

My personal prediction is gambit, because there is literally no reason beyond utter derp to claim what he did as scum, regardless of which team he's on - so I really don't even care that he claimed.

[Lapsa]

is there any possibility we started with one Infra-red (balanced with the neighbourisng power) and two UV?

I've only ever seen a mod once refer to a dual scum team as an SK and never seen it called a Mafia. Single scum teams are SKs, not mafia.

your gut feelings got to be extra-strong to fix dumbella in such an open and honest way

someone should remove that useless cop role from mafiascum normals

but then again - Thor is a honest man and transparency is his second name

Okay.

could it be that Bella is 2nd Godfather?

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa - what is the case, in your mind, on Bella? I have him as townish.

Thor, I think we should stop this huge discussion wall about Bella's alignment and let others speak too

your Bella case has been extremely long and detailed (I have read it all, trust me. twice)

it's convincing enough to safely assume that Bella has to be Godfather. every other possibility has been ruled out

[Lapsa]

And what are your thoughts on Lapsa's post

s

Thor?

It's either true - in which case he'll also claim single scum of his faction (which may or may not be true) - in which case it affects nothing.
Or it's a gambit - in which case it's boring.
My personal prediction is gambit, because there is literally no reason beyond utter derp to claim what he did as scum, regardless of which team he's on - so I really don't even care that he claimed.

[Lapsa]

got to be sneaky and hide well. it's not that town knows yet I'm one shot Godfather confscum

maybe I will be read as supascumhunta

I'm guessing they won't puzzle that out thanks to the pressure I was put under yesterday

[Lapsa]

oh, it's over. oh well, was fun

gj Thor, gonna call that Shin/Bella move as softbussing ^_^

[Lapsa]

I think that one of my most shameful ownages as scum was from someone doing NKA.
Basically they were like "everyone who was dead thought Thor was scum" and the bloody bastard had the absolute sass to have people believe him! The nerve.

Victor did something similar

[Lapsa]

That’s not alignment indicative; he was in 10 games when he started his one and he overextended himself.

*takes note that Plot takes note of this stuff*

I reckon that Plot takes notes of everything. Goal-fish is really telling - helped greatly to read Plot properly

[Lapsa]

almost forgot - ty Titus for joining. much appreciated

[Lapsa]

sometimes even 3 games feels like i’m overextended. but my playstyle is really time consuming.

@Lapsa: what did goal-fish tell you about my play in this game?

you guys are disrespecting mafia game. try playing one at a time like I do

when I play mafia game, I build abstract`ish profiles for players in my mind about what kind of persona s/he is

despite that I still don't even know your gender for sure, I could relate with necessity for goal-fish (working as a programmer fucks up mind)

imagined you as 40ish male

all of that can be (cautiously!) applied during game

for example - had no problems with you bugging me about ice cream flavour "breadcrumb"

that small thread snowballed into solid townread

same goes for Tool's cautiousness on #32

[Lapsa]

Care to share any scum games?

there is none

[Lapsa]

Care to share any scum games?

there is none

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

(for realses? )

true

@Plot fun fact: I keep exactly 0 notes during the game

[Lapsa]

@Tere: it’s my website. it’s linked in my sig. it’s a todo list aimed mostly at fellow auties because it helps with breaking down tasks and it is good for picking tasks that you can do based on your current pain levels / overload levels / time / spoons etc. so for days when you can’t handle washing the dishes but you could maybe clean off the desk it won’t tell you to the do the dishes it will tell you to clean off the desk and it gives you a checklist breaking it down into little steps because that’s the hardest part for us.

some neurotypicals use the site too i think.

my supertheory about autism and curing it more or less is that it has a lot to do with perception of time

learning to consciously let oneself to miss things and trying to perceive larger intervals of time helps

but then again - quite likely that's just my ignorance. and I'm not even sure that autism can be called as disease - mind adaptation to crazy times we are living in

[Lapsa]

@Tere: I don’t know what he meant by that, but maybe he read the help page where I explained why i made the site and figured out that i’m disabled and then i dunno what that has to do with my role pm but ok?

actually - I did not read help page. helped to get a glimpse of your mind nevertheless

[Lapsa]

Will you be weirded out if I retroactively stalk you? I found your approach quite interesting, in that I townread you quite quickly and I think you showed your alignment clearly, and I also struggle with lack of time (I am planning not to play in more than one game consecutively going forward, because 3 out of 7 days I need to V/LA and I can read but I can't write walls, so am working on the best approach to that).

not at all. go ahead and do so

[Lapsa]

gone watching ant man. btw, Aero - game was smerfing' amazing ^_^

[Lapsa]

(I am really not sure if I would self diagnose but my dad clearly is and I can pass but and I have to work really fucking hard at social stuff and I do a whole fuckton of nonverbal and if I can't just even I can't read noise and can't parse English but I don't want to be the special snowflake and this isn't about me but I've just come back to my home after listening to a ton of autism = rainman and ... my family and ... so I am not going to be rubbish about this so I am going to STFU but you guys a thread like this would be great for reals)

one of my all time favorite quotes:

The mind adapts itself to potentiality in order to measure everything in the mode of potentiality, and to absolute necessity in order to measure everything in the mode of unity and simplicity as God does, and to the necessity of nexus in order to measure everything with respect to its peculiar nature; finally, it adapts itself to determinate potentiality in order to measure everything with respect to its existence. But furthermore the mind also measures symbolically, by comparison, as when it employs numerals and geometric figures and equates other things with them.

[Lapsa]

I've read the quote you posted about 5 times. And I don't think I am stupid because many many reasons. So would it be OK if we got more of a general steer there? what is the message? what are you trying to say? Because my quote was quite troubled and very personal and private and a difficult reach out in trying circumstances and I get this at an abstract level - possibly - but I don't understand?

all of that is fairly abstract for me too

read about your disinclination of being special snowflake and that reminded me thoughts about ego

I think it's heavily misunderstood, marked as sin and whatnot

it adapts itself to determinate potentiality in order to measure everything with respect to its existence

according to quote, by doing so - one hinders his ability to determinate potentiality of things. that results as stress

something like that

[Lapsa]

So what would be your conclusion?

there is none

at least - I don't understand on what you expect a conclusion

[insert stupid jokes about LyLo here]

[Lapsa]

ah, I guess you meant my thoughts on ego

I think it's vital ingredient for letting your mind wandering freely

works like a shield for oneself

[Lapsa]

ANT MAN WAS SO GOOD WASN'T IT???

And thanks Lapsa! Feel free to join all my games, you're literally the most entertaining player to watch.

well... not yet. have been in bad luck stealing that movie

ty for kind words

I'm still bit sad about not sorting Thor/Bella/Shin correctly - really mindbending task to do.
would be nice to hear Zor's postgame input on this (I haven't read side threads yet)

could have been epic comeback

[Lapsa]

The one with the dog biscuit he was clearly calling me LAMIST and it was funny because he was right; I was trying to town up my slot when I posted that thing he was responding to.

Lapsa was saying I was just saying that to town my slot up a little bit and he was kinda right.

damn it, Plot. I can't recall exact thought sequence on #629 with complete certainty

but your explanation seems unlikely. I think idea for that doggy gif was to portray scumbait of potential Zor mislynch

I remember that your "lol" response left me wondering but I couldn't see any scum motivation in it

[Lapsa]

and if Bella didn't hammer Lapsa was likely to do so. I accelerated the inevitable.

@Zor, I did townread you because of our conversation. wouldn't have lynched you

[Lapsa]

They think Lapsa is some sort of secret BP cop vig

rofl

[Lapsa]

I think you may be that in all games regardless of role PM

I'm mildly chaotic ^_^

[Lapsa]

@Thor, about self votes - I do think there's a niche where that can be applied kind a successfully as town

as I see it: when done fast enough, in high risk situation - it kind a helps to fight town apathy and forces town doing much deeper analysis

publicly

to justify voting

might be just another derp of mine - you judge

can't think of good reasoning for self-hammers though