Micro 508: MafiaMafiaNotMafia (Bins' Soup Sucks)

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #19 (isolation #0) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:58 am

HURT: bins

That was mean. Eh, only scum will hammer us, right? What's the paranoia comment about?

10 is good, though.

I like chambs' 7 as well.

NM seems fluffy, even for RVS. Watching you. <3

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #48 (isolation #1) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:15 am

Bins is asking good questions. Pie not really engaging with answering them is dodgy. Edo and TIP aren't giving me town-vibes

@Bins-, yeah, it's me. <3

p-edit, Pie's answer is just...odd. Ok.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #116 (isolation #2) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:49 pm

Plotinus head finally checking in. sorry about yesterday; it was offline stuff that i'm not talking about outside the speakeasy.

page 1

5 I appreciate this post from Parama because I’ve never played this setup before and it appears that they have, but I’m wondering why they didn’t hold back this information until they could catch someone behaving incorrectly.

6, 8 ugh.

7 chamber discourages scumhunting outside groups. hmm.

9 hiiii bins!

16 i think i’m always going to be tempted to scumread not_mafia, but I know he’s always like that and it's not alignment indicative for him.

20 yeah, but we’re a pretty scary town combo, too. i’m getting night killed

a lot

lately.

24 I’m still appreciating the mafia theory from parama because I’d be lost in this setup without it but I’m going to ISO him when I’m done catching up to double check the scumhunting/mafia theory ratio.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #117 (isolation #3) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:00 pm

page 2

parama25 yay an early reads list

lucky26 weak entrance from lucky2u

Edo28 and I love how I found a plugin that makes gifs not autoplay. I just wish the plugin worked in the browser I use on my main account.

Edo31 reachy but meh, it’s page 2

Pie36 i think i like this post.

ugh this is going to be one of those games innit. where everyone’s posting style is completely incomprehensible to me and everything feels like shifting sands. at least people are taking stances that i can try to make sense of later.

Chamber49 why?

--Plotinus still

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #118 (isolation #4) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:11 pm

page 3

edos51 HURT: edosurist

tip53 it’s lame tho.

bins54 what was his alignment in the games you looked at? i think i’d probably only fake an “i promise i’m town and i never lie as scum” trust tell as scum, too. so there is that.

para59 i like this post from parama because think i’m more likely to want to complain “that’s not why i’m town tho” as town (though i try not to because i know it’s distracting). as scum it’s more like “lol they think i’m town for

that

whelp i’m not going to complain!”

para61 haha yeah i’m getting town vibes from this.

chamber67 a bunch of people asked about that parama vote but this is not an explanation of the parama vote. it looks more like a defence of parama. is it?

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #119 (isolation #5) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:22 pm

page 4!

lucky77 i agree, but that’s it for the catchup post? that’s all of it? nothing else to say about the 75 other posts before yours? HURT: lucky

notmaf79 happy with this vote

pie83 why? for all of these reads but especially for our group since that’s where i have to vote because i don’t know what to make of either of you and i want to figure out if ours is the all town group or not.

bins85 and 86 this is pretty similar to how i am thinking! Because I’m town reading Parama and TIP is sort of null scum for me and I liked not_mafia’s vote on lucky and and both lucky and edos look pretty bad to me but they can’t both be scum and i think lucky is more likely to be scum than edos. and in my own group bins and pie are incomprehensible but at least i can understand bins’ reads!

parama89 i only do unofficial vote counts when i need towncred

sometime when i’m less busy i need to make a study of this to see if it’s just me.

parama92 why does disliking pie’s reads means he’s town?

pie95 ok. were your other reads just kidding reads too and if not can you explain them?

bins97 yeah, apparently neither of us were feeling it yesterday. it’s not alignment indicative. please read on based on what we are doing not what we're not doing.

--Plotinus.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #120 (isolation #6) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:29 pm

page 5!

lucky102 on the surface, this is a good push against edosurist but you’re still scum tho which makes him town.

chamber112 lying about theory is really fun if you can get away with it tho. i won an offsite game by actively preventing anyone from learning mafia theory and it was glorious. (if you’re curious, post 53 in the scumposting thread in mishmash is a towncase i made for myself in lylo in that game and most of the town tells i listed are actually scumtells i just knew i could get away with it and i did.)

parama115 yeah i agree with this, it seems like ignoring everything outside our own groups is just a way to get into a confirmation bias tunnel the next day.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #121 (isolation #7) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:53 pm

Parama:

mafia theory: 5 12 24 88 89 90 91 96 98 105 107 108 111 113 115

scumhunting: 5 12 17 25 27 30 40 59 61 62 64 71 75 92 96 98 101 103 111 113 115

ok i think i’m good with this scumhunting to mafia theory ratio because a lot of the mafia theory posts also contain scumhunting and because i think he is getting something out of the later ones. am townleaning parama for now.

Questions for parama:

was the “good enough or me” in 17 directed at notmafia since you said you didn’t mean to quote irish pope but i couldn’t figure out who you were talking to then.

in which direction is the irish pope’s meta thing swaying you in 71?

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #122 (isolation #8) » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:09 pm

Okay i've reread inflatablepie's (short) ISO and I'd still like an answer to stuff i asked him in my catchup post but additionally if he was pretending to townread us and scumread bins for a reaction test then why did he out that before we had a chance to react to his fake townread on us? Maybe he got what he wanted out of bins but if he was town then he would still have to figure out our alignment too and our reaction might have been useful.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #126 (isolation #9) » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:39 am

Finally finished trying to make sense of Bins' ISO.

VOTE: InflateablePie

bella, you can change this if you want if you explain it to me. let's talk sometime later.

reads:

town to scum:
bins, inflatablepie
parama, {chamber, theirishpope} (not sure about the order here)
not mafia, edosurist, lucky2u

not all that confident in any of these, for what it's worth.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #171 (isolation #10) » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:03 am

Ugh, even though Pie is voting for us, his recent posting looks really town-y. Especially the unvoting. However, a lot of his issues with ploti-cat are play-style: trust me, this is her 'tryharding' as town.

Edo and NM are really hard for me to read rn. Where are other people on them?

-bx

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #201 (isolation #11) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:57 am

page 6 thoughts

In post 127, Parama wrote:
i actually haven't, but fortunately reading over the other thread solidified my initial setup thoughts and gave me some J U I C Y as hell information on how to really figure out both town and scum day 2, should we even need to

great. looking forward to day 2.

Parama wrote:
honestly even if i'd been more theory than scumhunting in your ratio, what would've been wrong with that? it's a setup that's a good degree different from a standard mafia, and literally nobody else is trying to exploit it to make scumhunting easier, i'll theory-dump if i feel like it if it gets everyone else on the same page as me

In general, I find setup spec/theory talk scummy when it comes at the exclusion of scumhunting, because it's an easy way to coast and to look like you're adding something protown to the game state without actually having to push people and try to get reads or make waves BUT this is such an unusual setup and I did once win a scumgame by preventing the town from learning any mafia theory whatsoever so I think ultimately that increasing the mafia theory knowledge of the town is important in this situation, especially since in your case it's accompanied by scumhunting and in the case of you vs chamber you seem to be getting reads from the theory discussion.

Also, I spent a good deal of n1615 pretending to be the IC when I was just an SE and coasted by on coaching all of the newbies (to make it less obvious which newbie i was trying to coach) and helping out with theory talk and then I just buddied everybody until they lynched each other and it worked and I won. So that's where I'm coming from on that.

This is one of those situations though where I get suspicious but then I regret saying something, like the first time I was town on the offsite forum that I sometimes play on, I admitted that I had only posted unofficial votecounts + countdown gifs for towncred in the previous game because the mod only provided final votecounts at the end of the day and it was a good way for me to be present on every page without actually doing anything. But once I said that and voiced suspicion of a player who was doing it in this new game, people became scared of posting votecounts and the town still did actually need regualar vote counts, we just needed to be careful not to handout towncred for it like in previous times.

So uh basically we need the mafia theory please keep doing it but I can't give you towncred for it; I only hand that out for other things.

Parama wrote:
In post 121, Rainbow Unicat wrote:was the “good enough or me” in 17 directed at notmafia since you said you didn’t mean to quote irish pope but i couldn’t figure out who you were talking to then.

in which direction is the irish pope’s meta thing swaying you in 71?

directed at NM
swayed towards scum, because it's a scummy way to start a game

Thanks for answering these btw.

In post 128, Bins wrote:
In post 119, Rainbow Unicat wrote:bins97 yeah, apparently neither of us were feeling it yesterday. it’s not alignment indicative. please read on based on what we are doing not what we're not doing.

ugh

that's pretty much my point
i didn't unvote because i
didnt
get a read

I know. sorry. i'm a bit overextended but that's no excuse. Do you want to try interacting with me? I'm a bit out of my depth because the main scumhunting tools I rely on don't really work in this stage of the game or in a setup of this size but maybe talking will help.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #203 (isolation #12) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:08 am

page 7 thoughts.

In post 155, chamber wrote:
In post 154, Not_Mafia wrote:Do you really think there's such an large amount of "effort" to out in to hunting in your own group that hunting outside of it encroaches on it?

This isn't entirely clear as a question because of some typos I think, but I'd go with yes, yes it is.

why is scumhunting out of your group so arduous?

In post 163, InflatablePie wrote:yeah so PlotCat's catchup just looks like a lot of IIoA which makes my eyes glaze over every single time

I've heard this before and I think it might just be something about the way I use language because I feel like I'm taking stances in every sentences I type. I think most of what I write can be boiled down to "this person just wrote a town post" or "that person just wrote a scum post" or "what's the message you're conveying i still don't know what you're saying".

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #204 (isolation #13) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:14 am

In post 180, TheIrishPope wrote:
In post 177, InflatablePie wrote:vague order of scum->town reads on the lucky/edo/NM group, go
Edo and NM are equal in scumminess, and I think lucky is being genuine?

In post 178, Parama wrote:
irish it's because i personally have to decide between you and chamber

and again it doesn't matter which group is the town group because we're lynching in all three groups either way
i'm glad you suspect one of the two people fypov that you should suspect

The point isn't that I have to suspect one of the two, the point is that it doesn't matter if we're split up in groups, I'll still scumhunt like this was a regular game of mafia. Suspecting one or both of you two is not necessary as I could call you both town, but you and I know that's not true.

I am having trouble generating opinions about page 8 that haven't already been stated beyond disliking edosurist's readslist.

@Parama I'm just trying to communicate and explain what I'm thinking. I'll stop, I guess.

--Plotinus.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #205 (isolation #14) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:15 am

i don't know why that was quoted.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #207 (isolation #15) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:26 am

Yeah, still working on the oversharing thing.

--Plotinus.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #208 (isolation #16) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:54 am

@mod, the bella head is vla 'til monday, plot's got this covered.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #224 (isolation #17) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:52 pm

In post 220, InflatablePie wrote:to be fair I said their group is most likely to be all town.

I think.

I mean obviously we lynch the most likely scum in that group regardless because I can be wrong, so

plotcat wrote:I've heard this before and I think it might just be something about the way I use language because
I feel like I'm taking stances in every sentences I type
. I think most of what I write can be boiled down to "this person just wrote a town post" or "that person just wrote a scum post" or "what's the message you're conveying i still don't know what you're saying".

116 - all useless except a waffle read on NM's 16
117 - waffle-y edo read, light townread on me, everything else useless
118 - townread on parama, not much else
119 - actually a few reads
120 - reconfirm lucky read, other posts useless

okay, let me translate then. not clicking the links so some of it might be "agree about setup spec" instead of "this is town", but I'll stand by the translation anyway.

Spoiler: 116 - 4 stances

Spoiler: 117 - 6 stances

Spoiler: 118 - 5 stances

Spoiler: 119 - 6 stances

Spoiler: 120 - 1 stance

Pie wrote:then parama iso and a reads list

but most of that is information, and definitely not 'taking a stance on each post'.

one of you two gets to answer 181 btw. I said PlotCat's catchup was IIoA and my eyes glazed over (that was a bitch to do that dissection above btw) but then launched into multiple reasons why their early post gave me a scumread on them (despite pushing Bins instead for ~reactions~). and then I got misrepped by BellaCat, "most of my issues are with Plot's playstyle". Despite BellaCat making the post I went into detail on.

I'm really interested in hearing a reason for that response.

Okay, Bella's on V/LA so she can try to answer it when she gets back and I'll answer it now.

You said you gave me reasons for why you didn't like Bella's first post. Her first post was 19. so i went through your ISO to find where you mentioned post 19 and it's in post 181. lol. forgot who Cat was.

In post 163, InflatablePie wrote:yeah so PlotCat's catchup just looks like a lot of IIoA which makes my eyes glaze over every single time

reads explained:
- Cat's first post (19 pinged me as scum. lack of vote, instead an FoS @ Bins, commenting on a few things in a generic 'scum faking involvement' fashion, and mainly the comment about NM being 'fluffy' ~14 posts into the game. 'sides, to NM's credit, he did comment that TIP's entrance was bad, so I don't even think that's particularly fluffy.

vote Unicat

I told her to use hurt tags instead of vote because we didn't understand the setup or whether it was safe to vote yet.

Both heads of this hydra have trouble telling when things are literal and when things are joking and we both find jokes confusing. Like we can get as far as "someone's using sarcasm here maybe" and then we get stuck. Why are they saying something that isn't true? If someone is claiming scum in RVS is that haha just serious or haha just kidding? We can't tell. I always scumread someone who says they're conftown unless there is modconfirmation.

We both find the first few pages of games to be overwhelming incomprehensible noise. We both tend to scumread people for overly jokey entrances into games but we know that's not alignment indicative for not_mafia.

This is the last micro I sign up for. Micro games seem to condense all of the parts of the game that I don't understand into one piece and then the game is over before we get to the part where I know how to play.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #226 (isolation #18) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:33 pm

I'm at my best on like page 200+ of a large, when there are flips to work with and ISOs several pages long to sift through. I can look at a slot's reads progressions over the entire game and see how they interacted with everybody in the previous day phases and track how their stances evolved and whether their voting patterns match what they're saying with their words. I'm not always right but at least I know what I'm doing.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #228 (isolation #19) » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:02 pm

I've done it a couple times, but only once that I can talk about (We Didn't Playtest This). I was really new when I first replaced into that one (1 completed game, then i replace into page 209 of a large.) so it took me about a month to get my bearings, but I did well once I figured out how to play.

When my current games finish (i'm overextended. 6 games. 5 hydra), I probably will just stop starting games and only replace in because I don't like starting. and the first 10 pages are a lot better when I don't have to sit through them in real time.

Anyway it's page 10 and I have reads that I'm happy enough with (unchanged since I last shared them), just need to interact more with people now.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #251 (isolation #20) » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:33 am

In post 231, Bins wrote:
In post 201, Rainbow Unicat wrote:I know. sorry. i'm a bit overextended but that's no excuse. Do you want to try interacting with me? I'm a bit out of my depth because the main scumhunting tools I rely on don't really work in this stage of the game or in a setup of this size but maybe talking will help.

tbh interaction is a lot better than the big posts

big posts always look

i don't know when i find myself as scum i tend to draw out my posts to make me sound really wordy. it's something marquis does a lot when he's scum and needs to explain himself and closely buddy buddy with someone hoping to get a twist on their reaction. i could be saying nothing at all but hey at least I'm making a massive post of geniuneness so you have to town read me. look how town i am. LOOK. explaining myself also takes up a lot of room and i really like to do that hahahah tbh parama in 999 mafia and marquis are pretty much the main reasons I'm so paranoid of "effort" because i realized i never EVER make big posts as town and its only when i want to convince people that i look towny that i start talking in this manner. like "talking to you" and a "listen to me" and words words words. this isn't meant to be like mocking but i just want to show you how easy it is to fake wanting to say a whole bunch of stuff.

you see what i mean?

i guess it's just something i do as scum a lot so it freaks me out

i see what you mean. it's null for me though. i know how it is because there are some people who play my scum meta as town and it's really hard for me not to scumread them for it. If you want to know kinds of things are alignment indicative for me I was pretty thorough in my deconstruction of my scumgame in the mafia pt of n1615 and i haven't had much time to work on those things yet + quite a few of them are arduous to work on i'm trying but i'm not really there yet.

we should try to interact though. i'm overextended but if i see you online at some point i will try to pop my head in so we can talk in real time, i'll make it a priority sorry i couldn't today but next time i promise. maybe tomorrow? it's almost midnight here.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #252 (isolation #21) » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:33 am

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #268 (isolation #22) » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:22 pm

At first I liked not mafia's post because I like being told that I am a good player especially when I'm having confidence problems this game but he's basically suggesting that I should be lynched because I'm a strong player and my scum game is scary but there's a 7/9 chance that we're town this game (spoiler: we are) in which case we'd be a strong asset to town.

anyway lots of words to say you're null on everybody (and this reads list looks so different from my own that i wonder if we're viewing the game from the same alignment)

his reads list is:

town:
himself presumably
bins

maaaaaaaaybe town:
edosurist, tip

maaaaaaaaaaaybe town idek:
pie
camber

the 2015s are too good at mafia let's lynch them:
rainbow unicat

maaaaaaaaybe scum but idek:
lucky

maaaaaaybe scum:
parama

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #270 (isolation #23) » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:35 pm

to be clear, that's not my reads list that's not mafia's readslist based on his 256 and a quick ISO to see what he was saying about chamber. You're saying the same thing about it that i was saying about it.

my own reads list is mostly unchanged since I posted:

In post 126, Rainbow Unicat wrote:Finally finished trying to make sense of Bins' ISO.

VOTE: InflateablePie

bella, you can change this if you want if you explain it to me. let's talk sometime later.

reads:

town to scum:
bins, inflatablepie
parama, {chamber, theirishpope} (not sure about the order here)
not mafia, edosurist, lucky2u

but not mafia's position is falling as a result of his own readslist. i'm only really on the fence about chamber/irish at this point but i'll look at ISOs and try to make up my mind about them soon.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #275 (isolation #24) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:00 am

In post 274, chamber wrote:
In post 269, Parama wrote:that's nice, so you have exactly one solid read and the rest are all maaaaaaybe accurate

How do you make that mistake when one of the reads is 'himself' and she put himself in the scum section?

Not mafia isn't scumreading us; he wants us policy lynched for being good players. He was the backup moderator in my only scumgame so he saw it firsthand and nommed me for a scummy for it, but around the same time, he replaced into the tail end of the town game i was also nommed for, so it would make more sense to let me do my town thing and then get paranoid of me in LYLO if I make it that far. It's premature to be paranoid about me on day 1 especially when I'm overextended and having an off game.

He's also seen that my scum LYLO play still needs work, I was obvtown all game and then I opened in LYLO with an obvscum post, though I won anyway. But my town LYLO play is pretty good so I should even be readable by then.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #277 (isolation #25) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:22 am

you're not null on 7 slots? because it looked to me like there was a lot of maaaaabe in your townleans and scumleans, most of them looked like null with a slight lean in one direction or the other, the only one you looked pretty confident in is bins.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #279 (isolation #26) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:17 am

True, but he said it was 2am. i'm willing to give him some benefit of the doubt for that. i've learnt my own lessons about playing mafia after midnight in previous games.

I was replying to the part where you said it was the scum section. you're right, though, we would have left ourselves off the list entirely; I find it gauche when people include themselves on their readslists, especially when they claim to townread themselves, and I find it worrying if they claim to not townread themselves.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #281 (isolation #27) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:36 am

you're right; i'm sorry. I'll wait until the person replies in the future.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #284 (isolation #28) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:42 am

Hi Bins I see you're online do you want to interact?

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #287 (isolation #29) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:09 am

no, and i'm not sure how much of it is being sore at being pushed for non alignment indicative stuff, when I know that he hasn't played with me before, but him saying I wasn't taking stances when I was bothered me, and I didn't understand him lying about his reads or what he got out of it. I find a lot of his posts hard to understand.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #288 (isolation #30) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:12 am

i'm not sure if i'm just being paranoid of not_mafia or not; I was townleaning him until that reads list, mostly trusting other people's townleans on him tbh; i find his playstyle hard to read.

I have the opposite problem as you i think, i tend to find serious players understandable and have trouble making sense of jokey players and figuring out if they're joking or not. and i can see that they're gettting something out of their interactions but i feel like i'm locked behind some smokey glass and i can't read their lips.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #290 (isolation #31) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:40 am

I've only played with n_m once and that was when he replaced into a confscum slot in lylo in a large where he could no longer meet his win condition so that was kind of an exceptional situation. he backup modded a game i was in though. I've seen him around but I wouldn't say I could read him. if you say he's self aware of his meta then I'd agree it would make sense for him to be trying to play differently around you if you'd recently seen him as scum.

I think reaction testing in general is towny but as scum you want to appear town so that includes reaction testing. but i'm not sure what he got out of it and he hasn't been here recently to reply to my replies.

I wonder if it's just a playstyle mismatch but most of the time, before I was overextended at least, people are able to meet me halfway on repairing communication, and I haven't felt like he was trying to do that.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #291 (isolation #32) » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:41 am

In post 290, Rainbow Unicat wrote:if you say he's self aware of his meta then
if he is scum here
, I'd agree it would make sense for him to be trying to play differently around you if you'd recently seen him as scum

.

ebwop, left out an important part of my thought.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #302 (isolation #33) » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:36 am

Ok, I'm catching up as on vla.

Have some questions!

@Bins - thoughts on Pie? Your latest posts looked more like you were scum-leaning them.

@Nm: we played together in Psyche's game, I was scum and we lasted to 3:4. I got lynched on POE. You've also modded a game or two of mine, so not sure why you are so ambivalent at me.

@tip, thoughts on NM? You unvoted Chamber, why?

Para is town. Lucky is prolly scum because there is a distinct lack of questioning/prodding in their iso.

I'm here for questions/comments.

-b

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #318 (isolation #34) » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:21 am

Okay, this works a lot better on page 200 with flips, but here's everybody's interactions with everybody else, right now all we can really say is whether there's a reads progression or not (having one is a healthy sign) and how much scumhunting they appear to be doing. ToMorrow hopefully we can talk about associatives.

group 1

Spoiler: BINS

Bins interacts with all slots and spends time scumhunting. Her reads progression exists and it makes sense. She seems to have quite a bit of town paranoia. She's acting a lot like I act in LYLO when I'm town.

Spoiler: INFLATABLEPIE

Inflatable Pie also spends time interacting with all slots and scumhunting. He feels worse to us because his pushes on our slot have been entirely on non alignment indicative things and accusing us of not taking stances was a misrep. His reads progression also looks worse than Bins' because there are fewer places where he's changed his mind and some of his reads are static. Based on this, I think he's more likely to be scum than Bins.

group 2

Spoiler: CHAMBER

Chamber has barely interacted outside of his own group but this is lampshaded by his claim that doing so would be too arduous for him. What's more worrisome is the interactions within his own group; he spends a lot of time in this mafia theory discussion with parama which I would ordinarily count as neutral instead of trying to work out someone's alignment but I get the feeling that he at least thinks he's getting something alignment indicative out of this discussion so I've marked the posts as if that were true. But the worrying part is his interactions with TIP which are much fewer and farther between and it doesn't seem like Chamber is doing much to sort TIP.

Spoiler: PARAMA

Parama's reads progression exists and it looks good.They've interacted with most slots equally, though they've had a long discussion with Chamber. They push on people outside their group and they're engaged with the thread. I'm pretty happy calling this slot town at this juncture.

Spoiler: THEIRISHPOPE

Irish has fewer interactions and he unfortunately seems to be doing very little to acquire reads. He doesn't have much of a reads progression. I thiink he's a distraction, though.

group 3

Spoiler: EDOSURIST

Edosurist still seems to be playing around, but he does have a reads progression and he shows signs of trying to figure out the game state. Edos is the most likely to be town in this group.

Spoiler: LUCKY2U

Lucky2U also has a reads progression, not very much of one, less pronounced than edosurists', but it's there and it exists.

Spoiler: NOT_MAFIA

Notmaf does not have a reads progression and is in fact null on most slots. Additionally, he wants to policy lynch us for being null. He's most likely to be scum in this group.

Spoiler: key

scum>town:
pie>bins>cat
chamber>irish>parama
notmaf>lucky>edos

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #328 (isolation #35) » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:16 am

no problem. if i'm alive day 2, I can do it. if you're alive, I trust you with it. There are some things I can look for with it on day 1, but it's a lot more useful on day 2 and beyond, when there are flips and we can colour in the names.

if there are a lot more posts before the day ends or if i feel like something significant happens that changes my reads, then i'll do an update.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #349 (isolation #36) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:49 am

@Lucky: we changed our mind on you since then. The difference between your ISO and not mafia's ISO is that you have a little bit of a reads progression and sometimes you take into account new information and change your mind as a result. Not mafia doesn't. He's the scum in your group.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #352 (isolation #37) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:51 am

ah ok, that's fine then.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #367 (isolation #38) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:55 am

NM, Tip and...o.0 in our group are our scum-reads. Pie over Bins.

Para's 356 is way too close to what I'm feeling rn. In a way I'm ready for today to be over.

Thoughts?

-b

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #384 (isolation #39) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:28 pm

In post 373, InflatablePie wrote:if they're both town, me being undecided is probably just making them paranoid

(actually it's just making me less decided. I don't think taking your time and being unsure is scummy, and feeling like the two other players look the same and not knowing how to choose between them is a feeling I had very recently in LYLO in Micro 501. I think scum you would have an easier time realising that the situation in our group is "oh wow look at Plotinus getting fed up with this game (and with being overextended in general) and deciding to bait the nightkill. It's going to be really hard to mislynch that ergo i should vote bins since the cats don't seem all that sure about their scumlean on me and could possibly be persuaded.")

I'll poke Bella about your questions when I see her online next.

TIP's recent posting makes me think chamber vs parama is TvT. not mafia is still scum (that is, he hasn't posting anything and neither of his group mates have done anything scummy enough to change my mind about not mafia).

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #389 (isolation #40) » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:58 am

I don't know. I don't want to switch to Bins while she's V/LA. And she's been acting exactly the same way, like it's LYLO and she's indecisive and she doesn't know who to pick. I'm also leaning towards thinking we got the all town group at this point, now that others have said it I don't mind saying it too. But we have to try to make the best decision anyway.

Bella can unvote if she wants to, though.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #392 (isolation #41) » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:56 am

Hi Pie!

Bella here - The thing is, both heads of us have been wondering if we're the town group pretty hard - your unvote on us when you thought bins voted us, your most recent comment about being the lynch if it meant NM and TIP got lynched is something I said to Plotti-cat a few days ago about our slot. But early on it seemed that finding a town group was a bad idea, so we've been resistant to that thought. I realise some of our (my) recent interactions to you have looked more like we're town-reading you: you are either really town, or really, really clever scum.

For 181, I mainly misunderstood you - I hadn't put together your fake bins read with you scum-reading us that early. In 19 we were copying hurt tags from others (like plot said, she said it was a better idea than a vote) and it was a reaction to her vote on us, rather than a FOS. NM did look fluffy - I'd played with him as town (I was scum recently) and although he didn't post much, it felt more engaged. He's also modded a scum-game of mine (this is why I found his later 'idek about that slot' so gross, btw). It was an early gut 'ping' that's been borne out later in the game. I linked the 'eyes glaze over' to the scum-read more than the rvs, which was my bad. It was dumb, mebbe, but the early game was awks for both heads.

I'm a little paranoid because you, me and para seem to be on the same page, and are after the same lynches. I think maybe what I wanna do is:

UNVOTE:

and interact with bins a bit more, just in case. Otherwise, we could well be the town-group. I want a NM and TIP lynch.

-b

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #443 (isolation #42) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:50 am

My cat is dying and Bella has a headache but she promised me she'd post later.

My reads are utterly unchanged. I just don't care anymore about anything that isn't my cat. I want notmafia lynched. I think he's scum. TIP is probably scum too.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #447 (isolation #43) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:43 am

Yeah, what Para said, but I'd prefer NM, because their push on us is terrible.

Saying that, I think a lynch in our group is the best thing rn, and what's worried me slightly is that both me and Pie have said it can be us, but bins hasn't. The game is kinda dead and we need progress - what's annoying me is that if I'm right about scum-reads, then we're lynching town in this group anyway: we're almost looking for one of us to fall on our sword.

my gut is - we're town group. If we're not, bins is prolly the place to look tomorrow as she's the 1/3 that hasn't volunteered to be a lynch today - scum self preservation - but I acknowledge that's paranoid.

-b

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #450 (isolation #44) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:52 am

No, that's fine, that's why I'm struggling with it right now.

Yeah, Tip is basically doing that as scum, it's the motivation that's different.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #457 (isolation #45) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:08 am

@Bins, why Lucky over nm? I thought that initially, but nm's reads and his response to us have been icky.

I worry about volunteering our slot for the lynch (as you/pie seem to be doing better this game), and then the worse case scenario (unlikely) is my two preferred lynches BOTH flip town, and then Pie is super!evil!clever scum. However, I like the vibes you and para are giving off (paranoia aside) and think if we made it to day 2 we could have a shot at winning this thing.

Basically, I'd rather Pie over us. Safer all round - one of these groups is town.

-b

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #458 (isolation #46) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:57 am

Since I’m having trouble focusing on anything but my cat right now I might as well make it official.

Plotinus head is v/la for a while, more la than v

Will continue trying to post as I’m able. I will stay caught up enough to have opinions in the hydra pt at the very least. I’m sorry.

24 hours before the deadline i will stop giving out hope for a not maf lynch and just vote.

--P

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #464 (isolation #47) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:41 am

Oh, so it is. sorry :/ missed that earlier somehow. checked a couple times in case i missed any more votes but i'm pretty sure i didn't, so this isn't a hammer.

VOTE: Pie

--P still

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #470 (isolation #48) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:59 am

@Para, if either of us flip town can you poke bins hard tomorrow? I don't wanna lynch her today, but I'm getting a creeping fear

@bins, see above <3 We need you to place a vote either way

@everyone else: if we all flip town (me, nm, tip) lynch para.

-b

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #494 (isolation #49) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:44 pm

wanted to update the interactions thing and it’s something i can do while snuggling my cat and not have to use my non existant interaction skills to talk to people (+ i think all that can be said about this gameday has been said already. it’s notmaf/tip and if it isn’t then it’s lucky/idek)

1

Spoiler: BINS

Spoiler: INFLATABLEPIE

2

Spoiler: CHAMBER

Spoiler: PARAMA

Spoiler: THEIRISHPOPE

3

Spoiler: EDOSURIST

Spoiler: LUCKY2U

Spoiler: NOT_MAFIA

i can't translate this into words right now but maybe i wordsed the previous one? i don't really remember. but here's the legend for trying to words it yourselves tomorrow if we're nightkilled

Spoiler: LEGEND FOR +- THING

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #523 (isolation #50) » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:02 pm

Ugh, sorry sala.

So, I'm a little confused as to why us/bins are left alive - if we were the all town group I'd kill bins and mislynch somewhere else. So, my paranoia is clearly very high today! Less paranoid, I think Chamber could be a good lynch today, especially after they went so quiet yesterday. This kind of set up is awkward enough that scum could just lurk it out.

More tomorrow

-b

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #561 (isolation #51) » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:40 pm

i was expecting either parama or us to be nightkilled. I was hoping it would be us. I could have posted the day before yesterday but it would have just been keyboard mashing about why couldn't it have been us. As such, I'm not too worried about "why parama and not bins" because I felt like parama, if town, which I believed they were, would be our best shot of solving the game due to how much work they'd put into it and their knowledge of the setup and previous games. As for why us, I felt (and still feel despite how terrible my reads were yesterday) that I have a decent shot of it myself because the possible pairings are few. If Bins had been nightkilled I probably would have grown very paranoid of parama.

That said, it's either Bins or it's chamber (or both I guess) and I'm leaning scum on chamber but that's before going through the numbers, and I'm thinking it's probably more likely to be lucky than edosurist but if the numbers contradict this then i'll trust the numbers.

possibilities are chamber-bins, chamber-lucky, chamber-edosurist, bins-lucky. i think that of these, chamber-lucky is less likely because of today's voting patterns.

I'm still on v/la and probably will be for another week but I may be getting back into a "need to use mafia as a distraction" state instead of a "I don't want to be distracted" state so maybe you'll hear more from me.

--p

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #571 (isolation #52) » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:12 pm

yeah, I'm terrible at mafia. especially day 1. especially micros. but probably just in general.

I was paranoid of not mafia and I was being obtuse. i should have figured out that he was scared of my scumgame not my towngame. i didn't. Bella and I did manage to figure it out for Bins that she was more likely scared of our scumgames than our towngames and that was part of our townread on her.

Lucky's still voting chamber, right? So this is us not being scum together with edos or bins
-p

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #574 (isolation #53) » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:14 pm

yay

pedit: oh, right.

-p

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #578 (isolation #54) » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:18 pm

the reason i'm leaning chamber is because i'm townleaning bins, and we know there is only one all town group.

but i'm otherwise thinking that chamber seems to be the obvious target, but then the wifom starts going in circles in my head about would chamber kill his groupmate to make us think he was being framed or is chamber actually being framed and it feels like a dead end.

pedit: looking forward to that, bins.

--p

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #581 (isolation #55) » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:24 pm

re 579, i was feeling a little paranoid about that edos, but it seems really dangerous to enter lylo voting your partner like that especially when there are easier targets. I also think chamber-lucky is less likely than other parings.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #587 (isolation #56) » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:35 pm

In post 586, Edosurist wrote:I don't think we should necessarily lynch chamber yet, but today's lynch truly is down to him or Lucky.

agree

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #601 (isolation #57) » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:46 am

Argh. So, with the nk, there are 18 possible scum teams from everyone's point of view, (thanks Edo)

Chambs is scum in 12 of them. It also puts Chambs/lucky in a 1v1 scenario.

So, either that means Chamber IS scum, or scum are clever enough to work out how few options we've got without chamber. Paranoia suggests Edo could've copy and posted his list from the scum PT, but...So much wifom. I think I need to re-read day 1 to see any pingy interactions between bins/chamb/edo/lucky.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #616 (isolation #58) » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:13 am

Guys,

I kinda want lucky/chamber. I know it's improbable. But I can't get my head around bins!scum, and edo's been vibing town this day really hard.

In terms of the groups, Group 1 is: us, bins. 2: chamber, 3: edo, lucky

One of those groups has to be all town. My gut is not happy that both lucky AND edo are town, that seems improbable.

@bins, you are normally really, really paranoid of me. The lack of it is the thing that's niggling at me saying we are the town group. But I don't see the nk coming from you at all. Why don't I feel like you are par

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #617 (isolation #59) » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:14 am

paranoid of me?

Ugh, broken this somehow.

I kinda wanna vote lucky. Plot wants to be sensible and re-read.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #622 (isolation #60) » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:11 am

it's not fence sitting; it's not having made time yet to go over things in the level of detail i need to make a decision.

chamber not interacting much outside his group makes it harder for me. i've looked at one combination so far and i can see some things but i want to look at the other combinations before saying okay it's x and y.

--Plot, who probably won't get to it tonight because it's almost bedtime but will try to prioritise this tomorrow.

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #624 (isolation #61) » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:48 am

I would be up for talking to lucky - I'm towning you hard, and I know some of it is I'm impressed by your effort-ing this day phase, but you look genuine. I think we're ready to vote, but we're a little hesitant after being wrong about EVERYTHING yesterday. I think if we don't get our interactions by tonight, we're voting.

-b

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #634 (isolation #62) » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:05 am

i'm here and i'm doing stuff. gonna look at the different pairings and try to talk myself through things.

Bins/Lucky first.

Bins about Lucky2u -86 -286 ==?400 -412 -454 =466 =467

Lucky about Bins ==99 +259 +263 -?=347 ==353

(that's just day 1)

things i like about bins/lucky: metadiving tip a bit to check whether a statement he said about something he always does is accurate or not. the last time i tried metadiving as scum it turned out the townie’s scum meta was that he acts a lot like i was acting in that game which was awkward and made it hard to make either a towncase for him or a scumcase for him. so the fact that bins bothered to look it up and then actually found a contradiction (even though tip was town) is a good sign.

her paranoia about us on day 1 makes more sense from a town perspective (so did not mafia’s i was just too obtuse to notice at the time.)

lucky is her top scumread in his group in 86 and remains so pretty much the whole of day 1

this was in the other category but i talked myself into putting it here in the town category instead:
I think someone already mentioned 263 and that it could be telling his buddy he doesn’t mind being lynched. but there’s a greater context here where every time she mentioned him almost she would rather he be lynched than the others in her group. and when we were pushing for not mafia to be lynched instead and it looked like the tide was turning, he says nah it’s okay just lynch me now instead of just waiting for it?

and the way she’s pushing him today doesn’t feel like SvS either. for example she’s raising good points in 534. it’s lylo, she should be trying to get chamber lynched if she’s buddies with lucky.

things i don’t like about bins/lucky:

they don’t interact much with each other for a while.

um. This isn't the conclusion I was expecting to come to because I think Bella was paranoid about Bins (we haven't talked since Bins' recent posts, maybe they'll help? they helped me anyway) but I'm not feeling Bins/Lucky. I want to look at chamber/everyone else before voting though. hopefully at least one pairing there will make more sense (ideally one and only one pairing but this game is hard especially with

someone

being unwilling to interact much outside his group on day 1.)

-P

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #635 (isolation #63) » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:10 am

chamber/lucky

if it’s chamber/lucky then it literally doesn’t matter which of them we lynch today so i’m not interested in this pairing right now. i’ll reconsider it if i’m still alive with one of them in 3p lylo as part of being thorough.

lucky's day 1 interactoins with chamber were:

chamb -188 -353 +479

chamber did not interact with lucky on day 1.

--p

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #636 (isolation #64) » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:04 am

fuck everything. i've read the other two pairings, first the one and nothing jumped out and then the other and nothing jumped out at me at all but it's more like when you're listening to someone talk and paying attention and then several minutes into the conversation you realise you don't speak the language they're talking you just thought they did because the cadences sounded similar to a language you do know (this has happened to me with Finnish on more than one occasion). tomorrow, when receptive language is better.

--p

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #638 (isolation #65) » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:24 am

chamber/edos

Chamber’s interactions with Edos =73

Edos’ interactions with Chamber: =50 -70 -76 ==185 ==186 -187 =197 =415

edos tried to interact with chamber a few times but he didn’t interact back very much.

That's all that I can think to say of this ISO combination. I'm just not seeing it. I'm not seeing Edos scum period, though. the trouble i'm having with chamber is that he seems to have gone out of his way to avoid having any associative tells with anyone in the other groups and my playstyle relies on that a lot. it makes it hard for me to read him at all, which makes me want to scumread him.

chamber also didn't have all that much of a reads progression even on his own group.

maybe it is chamber/lucky but if it is then it literally doesn't matter who we vote today.

i'll try to look at chamber/bins again, just in case i see something.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #639 (isolation #66) » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:36 am

chamber/bins

bins interactions with Chamber =10 +33 ==86 -131 -133 ==286 ==454

chamber did not interact with bins

yeah. nothing. idek.

i'm townreading everybody but chamber and lucky. ffs.

--Plotinus

Rainbow Unicat · Post Post #641 (isolation #67) » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:21 am

Yeah, that's what we are after too. But, in a way, it doesn't matter - bins' interaction with us is town today, and we're happy with voting lucky. Honestly, I find their lack of engagement with other slots weird, especially this day phase. They mention pie 3 times, a similar number for chamber - even that doesn't look like scumhunting. Our town read on bins is strong, our read on edos this day phase is strong, and I think lucky is the vote I want. I'm never going to be not paranoid of bins, but:

VOTE: lucky