Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[pistachi0n]

@Thor My motivation was to try to think through the wagon on Ciara and see it from both sides.

[Bellaphant]

@Radja, I think you've done pretty decently in games we've shared. Also, thanks for the link that looks like Woody's probably town, oh no and also makes me feel a bit better about your slot. Also, have you had many other scum-games?

I'm not really feeling the Ciara scum-read.

@Pista, Eventi - top scum and town read rn?

VOTE: dave

[pistachi0n]

Strongest townread--Probably KarmicGuide
Strongest scum--it's changed to Thor, at first I thought he was just trying to disguise an RVS but his case on Ciara seems like he just wants her out of the game. Maybe he thinks she'll figure him out, regardless, he's looking scummier to me than woody now.

VOTE: Thor

[davesaz]

You seem to be finding a lot of things vaguely suspicious yourself, but aren't contributing a huge amount of content aside from that- do you wanna ask me anything, because there's a lot of noise in the thread.

Who are you voting and why?
The first part of this question is obviously a joke, but the 2nd part is quite serious.

[davesaz]

Strongest townread--Probably KarmicGuide

I found it pretty weird that KarmicGuide didn't try to interact with me after my vote. Especially after I stated that the purpose was to cause interaction.
Setting that aside as bait that caught no fish, if I look at what he did post, it does look town to me. I wouldn't go as far as to say strong.
UNVOTE: KarmicGuide

I haven't made up my mind on Garmr yet. I don't remember him townreading me in a single game yet, so it could just be that my style rubs him the wrong way. I'm making a conscious effort to not scumread people for scumreading me, because it prevents me from seeing other scummy things. On the other hand, the case he's trying to make is the type I might try to make as scum, since it's easier to disengage by writing it off as a misunderstanding. Could go either way.

I don't see whatever it is that Thor is being scumread for.

Radja's response seemed town to me. Not a strong read but fairly clear.

Bella isn't doing much, but I don't have enough other game experience to compare to, to make an alignment call based on it.

[davesaz]

Eventi was a lot more active in a just-finished town game. Inactivity isn't a lot to go on but it merits a push this early in the day.
VOTE: eventi

[zakk]

EXPERIMENT NOTES 1.9

Searching for a replacement for Fro99er

SUBJECTS ASSERTING AGGRESSIVE ACTIVITY:

Ciara24 [3] Thor665, KarmicGuide, Radja
davesaz [2] Garmr, Bellaphant
KarmicGuide [2] WoodyWoodpecker, gummmybear
eventi [1] davesaz
pistachi0n [1] Nachomamma8
Thor665 [1] pistachi0n
WoodyWoodpecker [1] eventi
Nachomamma8 [0]
Bellaphant [0]
Fro99er [0]
Garmr [0]
gummmybear [0]
Radja [0]

SUBJECTS DISPLAYING PASSIVE TENDENCY:

Ciara24, Fro99er

[eventi]

@Radja, I think you've done pretty decently in games we've shared. Also, thanks for the link that looks like Woody's probably town, oh no and also makes me feel a bit better about your slot. Also, have you had many other scum-games?

I'm not really feeling the Ciara scum-read.

@Pista, Eventi - top scum and town read rn?

VOTE: dave

Garmr seems town to me based on him vs davesaz.
I have a lesser town vibe from Ciara too.

I'll concede that Woody is annoying but maybe not scum.

I'm going back to read my own games with dave; he didnt really leave much of an impression on me in those, probably because I tend to get lynched D1.

I'll get bak to you on scum, I think woody is lynch bait
UNVOTE: Woody

[eventi]

Eventi was a lot more active in a just-finished town game. Inactivity isn't a lot to go on but it merits a push this early in the day.
VOTE: eventi

Yeah, what was that, my third game here? My second time getting mislynched on day one? I'm not playing that way anymore, it wasn't working for me. I'm super flattered that you looked into my meta though.

[Nachomamma8]

What do you think of nacho?????

Why did you ask this question if you didn't have a read on me at that point?

I also think that your posts so far, about seashells, Nacho being a girl, about Demolition Man, might be intentional spam. You're trying to look like town by posting a lot, but posting a lot of nonsense doesn't help town.

Do you really think making 6 nonsense posts helps scum? How?

No you won't. You're town and I'm town. And you can read me like an open book. I think Woody is town. Do you agree?

This is a pretty good response if you're scum!
I do agree that Woody looks town.

I would advance a town read to Nacho but was offput by his quick and early semi-buddy of me with the whole 'looks like we're both town, wink, wink' line - how do you interpret that from him differently than I did?

This read on me makes sense. Your approach to me early game made it seem like you liked what I was producing, so I was surprised you didn't have any opinion on me when you answered Garmr's question, but being creeped out by my interactions with you makes sense (you also were pretty creeped out by my interactions with you in the crosstown where you neighborized me, if I remember correctly).

My computer is force-restarting soon, will finish this after a shower.

[Nachomamma8]

Mmkay. Go crazy. I've seen your scum game once and your town game once, and read a couple of past games. I certainly wouldn't assume I'd be able to pick out if you're scum or not from early game. I'd like to think that my town game would be still improving anyway.

This is a decent response.

I don't like this interaction. It's early game and if you have strong impressions on Nacho you should share them. You asked that question seemingly out of the blue and are giving no justification as to why.

I find it completely reasonable to be annoyed or bothered by Garmr not expanding on his read of me, but I don't understand the scumread here. Why do you think that Garmr-scum didn't state his read on me if he had one (or was pretending to have one)?

It's a valid opinion but not really alignment indicative one. I really don't like how defensive this post is over woody. I don't know if it means his scum or his just someone who's going to clash heads with me over this game.

So...
You think this post is scummy because my response to your Woody suspicion, which I disagreed with and had valid reasons for disagreeing, wasn't alignment indicative. You think it is defensive to respond to another player's suspicion of my townread. Am I interpreting this correctly?

KarmicGuide, why not vote me (who hasn't posted at all), eventi (who's posted barely anything), Radja or even Nacho (who hasn't posted in a long while) for "lurking"?

I understand why Karmic approached the situation in the way he did, but I like this attack.

Wow, that was exhausting... If woody is town, he will be dead weight. All those words and absolutely nothing productive.

VOTE: woody

This vote is surprising.
I never would have expected that you were the type of player who would spring for a policy lynch right off the bat. I don't think you are.

I kinda like Dave for town for having the gumption to psa at the mod. XD

I agree with the dave!town call, but my reasons are different than yours.

Good legit reason, solid work, go team.

Attacking Thor for tongue-in-cheek reasoning when his other positions have been pretty clearly explained is strange.

Vote: Eventi

I don't like the new playstyle, but, more importantly, don't think the shift is genuine.

[Nachomamma8]

Talking of 'wasting time', though, how do you generally feel about it? You seem to have got a read on Woody early - I'll admit I like an rvs page or two to get a read on people.

I don't understand this, even after reading posts around this to refresh myself with the context.
Why did you like how Thor felt about RVS? What was the point of talking about Thor's early Woody read? Were you uncomfortable with it?

Response to Radja looked strange, didn't like the threat of a vote.

Why did you dislike the threat of a vote?
I didn't like his opening, I told him I was probably going to vote soon.
I could have worded it differently and said "I don't like your opening; do better next time", but I don't see how that difference would be particularly important or alignment indicative and I don't understand why either response was problematic.

...Dave, it's 'weak', but not scummy enough for a vote? That's weaker. And scummier.

Why is it scummy that dave saw something that he didn't like it and didn't vote for it? You think he was afraid to put the first vote on you but not afraid to express suspicion of you because... why, exactly?

like Woody's probably town, oh no

Why "oh no"?
I know this is a strange question, but this specific piece seemed really strange.

[zakk]

Gimlear replaces Fro99er

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: eventi

Sorry bro

[gummmybear]

Still swamped by RL, still liking my vote where it is. I'll try to check in later tonight (tonight for me is in about 10-12 hours)

[Thor665]

@Thor My motivation was to try to think through the wagon on Ciara and see it from both sides.

By...making up her thoughts?
Like, she literally stated her reasons. Like them or leave them you don't need to make up an excuse for her - she gave her excuse.

Garmr seems town to me based on him vs davesaz.
I have a lesser town vibe from Ciara too.

I'll concede that Woody is annoying but maybe not scum.

I'm going back to read my own games with dave; he didnt really leave much of an impression on me in those, probably because I tend to get lynched D1.

I'll get bak to you on scum, I think woody is lynch bait
UNVOTE: Woody

[Garmr]

@nacho if you actually read the game you would of realized I was scum reading you when I said that and when thor asked me to elaborate it fell to more a neutral read after I thought about it more.

[Garmr]

Garmr, you have confused playstyle with meta. I don't make aggressive accusations as either town or scum, especially D1. I do tend to ask oblique questions as both alignments. Occasionally it actually finds scum, but the primary reason is to gather information.

Have a look at this game. The position you are taking here is similar to Whatisswag in that game. The main difference so far is that you have not yet made the error of calling me a liar. If you'd like to look further there is a pretty extensive list of games on my wiki page.

What I see is different from that but it's hard to explain differences in behavior because I found your scum game a little bit more baseless and aggressive. Through I have been wrong sometimes in the past sometimes I really don't think this is the case.

[Gimlear]

Ok, I just finished reading the thread, and here are my thoughts so far:

1. Woody strikes me as Town, mainly because he is actively scumhunting and propelling the discussion forward without super aggressive tunnelling. That being said, I wouldn't call Karmic's "immediate unvote" argument lying. At best it's a misunderstanding; at worst it's trying to see what accusations stick. Also, I don't think Woody's [#24] is alignment indicative without other posts where he uses it as an excuse.

2. I am vaguely uncomfortable at all the posts citing previous games as reasons for reads. Meta reads are not reliable, although I understand using them when you have nothing else to go on.

3. Thor's play seems weird. First, he votes Ciara with no stated reason then attacks Ciara for assuming that his vote was a sheep on Nacho's, which at that point was a valid assumption to make with lack of evidence to the contrary. Also, his blatant attempts to get Woody and Garmr to follow his lead and vote Ciara reek of scum trying to push a weak wagon.

Before I cast a vote, I would like Thor to answer this question: What was your initial reason for voting Ciara? You obviously had one (or at least claimed to have one) because you specifically told the mod to ask you for clarification if needed.

[eventi]

...

Vote: Eventi

I don't like the new playstyle, but, more importantly, don't think the shift is genuine.

Yeah, I deserve that - I didn't mean to say that my lack of play in this game is a "style," I meant to say that my play in my first few games isn't representative of how I play now. That was an incomplete reply.

[Thor665]

attacks Ciara for assuming that his vote was a sheep on Nacho's, which at that point was a valid assumption to make with lack of evidence to the contrary

How is that a valid assumption - I even got Ciara to admit that it wasn't.
Go back and quote for me what Nacho said prior to my vote that I could, in any sense, be logically sheeping.
I'll wait.

What was your initial reason for voting Ciara?

To create a large wagon.

[eventi]

VOTE: eventi

Sorry bro

Heh- I wouldn't have pointed out that mistake fwiw

[Gimlear]

How is that a valid assumption - I even got Ciara to admit that it wasn't.

Ah, I must have missed the part where Ciara admitted that the assumption was invalid.

Go back and quote for me what Nacho said prior to my vote that I could, in any sense, be logically sheeping.
I'll wait.

That was the problem. There was no logical reason.

What was your initial reason for voting Ciara?

To create a large wagon.

I don't like this response, but it's not necessarily scummy. This makes it seem like you're just trying to rush a wagon for the sake of a wagon. I don't see how this helps Town at all.

[Thor665]

Ah, I must have missed the part where Ciara admitted that the assumption was invalid.

Basically have this conversation and replace you with her and that is what it looked like.
But don't worry, I am loving living it a second time.[/sarcasm]

That was the problem. There was no logical reason.

Agreed - so why would it be "logical" for her to presume that's what I was doing?

I don't like this response, but it's not necessarily scummy. This makes it seem like you're just trying to rush a wagon for the sake of a wagon. I don't see how this helps Town at all.

It is exactly what I was doing. I was rushing to get a large wagon.
How does it hurt town?

[Gimlear]

It is exactly what I was doing. I was rushing to get a large wagon.
How does it hurt town?

I didn't say it hurt town, just that I fail to see how it helps town.

Also, to expound upon why I think your first post was weird, it sounds an awful lot like "Hey mod, you know why I'm voting *wink wink*." This makes it sound like you had a dialogue before the game, which would only be possible for scum.