Mini 1709: Radjarok: Game over!

[Wanderer-nl]

UNVOTE:

Hi all.
It's about 4.30 am where I am and I just got home from work. Gonna do some catching up right now but will probably not get the complete picture before sleep.

[Wanderer-nl]

I read the thread once and I'm too tired to put in quotes and elaborate thoughts. I want to vote for Gob. I wanted to since I read page 3 or 4. His readslist was more of a summary of how much people had posted than containing actual reads. And he hasn't been doing anything to improve his reads.
I liked Haschel's 281 on Accountant because I got the same impressions. I don't think the focus should just be on the numbers-thing.
I'm going to bed in a bit and look at this again *tomorrow* with fresh eyes and elaborate more on what I just said.

[Wanderer-nl]

Alright thank you Dessew.

Anyway, i have 100% with VeeGee on this, vijay2's posts seem to be pulled out of his ass or half-assed. With that said however, i

do not

think he is scum at this time (and i doubt VeeGee thinks that either), his posts arent exactly ones that would slide under the radar.
Though i really wish he would actually give more of a shit here.

This makes no sense at all. You agree with Veegee about not liking Vijay's tone, and then that makes him town, and also instead of asking Veegee what exactly he meant or didn't like, you're just going to assume he's not scumreading Vijay. And then the next day you make your readslist (94) and there you seem to be scumreading Veegee for something that happened in 71 which was before you agreed with Veegee. Other than that you call Hopkirk town and Trivium your first scumread. What do you mean by 'first scumread'? All the other reads are not even reads, but you trying to post something so you'll look like you thought things through.
You say you are trying to move the game forward, but how about asking questions to find out why players are doing something? That would be more helpful then posting a weird readslist where you barely take a stance. Hopkirk is a boring townread and Trivium, iirc, is also quiet so you're doing

exactly

what you were accusing Veegee of.
242 Players have asked you why you think Veegee and Accountant are scum, but you decide to take a look at Klingon's iso out of nowhere. Flippant much yourself? Or just trying to get people to focus on someone else besides you?
Gob isn't shy about outing townreads, however with some of them he finds something to add that gives an opening later to change his mind on said townread. Like calling Accountant town, but also bringing up she's fence-sitting and rolefishing. And I really don't like his tone towards Hopkirk, since he was townreading him. I'd think Gob as town would be more cooperative with a townread.

I'm pretty sure my vote is going here but I want to read some more iso's so will hold off voting for now.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm here. Nothing really to say at the moment. I like my gob vote.

I believe gob is at L-3 and Wanderer is at L-2.

This caught my attention.
In 224 you ask several questions and a quick skim tells me none were answered. How do you feel about that? You also said you were caught up to post 193 there, do you have any comments on posts/reads after that?
Have you been able to iso Dessew or did you decide to not do it after all?

[Wanderer-nl]

Accountant is a hard one for me. She's very articulate but nothing to me stands out as town. I get her numbers-thing, I played with someone that uses a +/- system to sort their reads, as long as the system is clear I don't mind what it is. Everyone scumhunts (or pretends to) in their own way. What I don't like is that she thinks she made a definite stance on Gob with her numbers. 60/40 is a large margin to go either way with your read. I won't call it fence-sitting but calling Gob scum/VI isn't really taking a stance on his alignment. So what do you think Accountant, is Gob town or scum?
About your scumread on Veegee; is it still based on his 116? What exactly did you think was scummy about that post?

Gob, I think you're most likely scum, and if you aren't then you're fucking around and need to stop. Is that clear enough for you?

How does this work with the numbers you put down earlier? Do they need adjusting?

This is all for now, I'd like a flip to compare to Accountants reds/thoughts to sort her more.

[Wanderer-nl]

Need to go out for some shopping (ugh, birthdays..) but will be back for more reading. If there's anything anyone wants me to comment on specifically, let me know.

[Wanderer-nl]

*snip*
I'll stop you at the beginning, i said multiple times i agreed with veegee on

vidjay's tone

but i read it differently. Veegee read it as a Scum read while i read it as a Town read. I stated this multiple times. It makes plenty of sense, Vidjay (at the time) had a bored tone, making me think he was just a VT that wasnt enjoying the game.

Ehm no, you said you didn't see it as scum and 'doubted Veegee did either' so you are backtracking. Also the 'bored VT' is the first time you use it on Vijay, there is nothing earlier that points to you thinking that about Vijay.

@stoz: Can you comment on what I said about Gob?

@Accountant: you failed to answer my other question which was if you're still scumreading my slot because of post 116. Please do that.

[Wanderer-nl]

I read Haschel, Dessew and Vijay. Haschel can be town and I won't waste time explaining why. Dessew I need to reread because I can't make up my mind on one read-through. Vijay I have read twice now because I was asked.
So, Vijay. I feel like he is here but he's not really in the game. I don't really see him take stances, he asks vague questions which he doesn't follow up on. I don't like how he's avoiding looking at you, gob. But he definitely doesn't look like a 'bored VT' to me.

58 Taking sort of a stance but not quite committing to it.
59 Oh wait nvm, there's no stance just something he put out there to never get back on.
70 Ofc he does, but what specifically?
73 I'm interpreting this to mean he wants Veegee to commit to a scumread by voting. It's a push in the right direction, I guess, but again something that doesn't get followed up on properly.
114 Throwing something 'out there' (in the thread, that is) but not taking a stance and not trying to figure it out any further.
124 Saying 'town' instead of 'we/us' always pings me and makes me want to keep close attention to any slot that does it.
133 While I agree with Vijay that Veegee could have done more up to that point, I don't see why Vijay thinks Veegee's behaviour/inactivity is alignment indicative.
136 I don't like this vote placement. And what relational analysis in a closed game with no flips yet do you think you can find?
142 I'm starting to get bothered by his droppings of Trivium/Hermit voting themselves, I feel like Vijay is trying to set this slot up to be a misslynch.
180 What do you hate about that post?
275 The most important finding is that he supposedly can't count, how is that alignment indicative? And you really didn't find anything else?
The posts after this is Vijay being busy/pretending to be active/fluffing.
Oh and Vijay, what's the rush to end this Day?

I could vote here too today.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm tired now, I'll be back soon.

[Wanderer-nl]

@gob: I don't agree he ever looked bored, maybe I should have been here following it in real-time. Where did Vijay stop looking bored to you?

Going to continue iso's now.

[Wanderer-nl]

So far I've read Klingon, stoz, Hopkirk, SamX and Trivium/Hermit. The last slot isn't doing anything at all, the others don't have anything that really stands out enough to talk about at this time of the Day.

I need to clear my head, I might do the last iso's before sleep.

[Wanderer-nl]

Ok, I'm going to try to get the last iso's done before sleep so I can put down a vote when I get up.

[Wanderer-nl]

texcat: Nothing really stands out until 314 where he moves his vote to Hermit and then in 329 moves it back to gob. While in 311 he's recapping his scumread on gob and there's also 316 This iso makes me want to reread gob.
@texcat: Why did you vote Hermit there for a while?

Dessew: There is a lot in his iso that has nothing to do with scumhunting or is alignment indicative in any way (English lessons, really?) He has defended gob so blatantly that if gob does flip scum, Dessew would be highly associated. That adds to my already slight doubt on my gob scumread.
@Dessew: What was your goal when you said gob only had 3 reads (138)?

Going to reread gob now to complete these reads.

[Wanderer-nl]

I've reread gob and I haven't really changed my mind about anything I wrote earlier about him. I'm going to sleep on this because my head is overflowing right now.

@gob: What are your thoughts on the other things I said about Vijay?

@Vijay: Humour me. Answer my questions to you despite your scumread on me/my slot. Please.

[Wanderer-nl]

I was being sarcastic. In clearer terms, what I meant was that your slot has been acting scummy as hell and shitposting ceaselessly.

How? The slot combined has 6 posts. Or 7. Don't remember exactly.

[Wanderer-nl]

Accountant, I asked you yesterday to update your numbers on gob, you planning on doing that today?

(I'm taking ceaselessly to mean without stopping, 7 posts doesn't qualify as ceaselessly to me, if you meant it different let me know. I made languagefails before..)
I feel like voting Accountant but I'm out of bed for like 2 mins so I wanna wake up first.

[Wanderer-nl]

@wanderer: That's the scummiest of VG's posts, but I feel that what makes him really scummy is the fact that he basically quit the moment pressure was applied.

@SamX: That huge wall of pros and cons, those are my reasons.

I feel ready to switch to a gob lynch now since Wanderer is generating content and nobody seems willing to push on him. He's still my strongest scumread, however, and unless something changes I will probably vote him again tomorrow.

@gob: I feel that vijay is vanilla town.

has anyone considered that the Salamence slot might be a jester?

Ok so again I ask, what is scummy about 116?
Why aren't you voting your strongest scumread right now?

[Wanderer-nl]

VOTE: Accountant

[Wanderer-nl]

116 presents an intentionally misleading set of choices and seems like an overblown obfuscation meant to conceal a scumslip. I don't like it at all.

I feel like that sentence is coming out of a textbook..
Anyway, how do you know whether it was intentional?

"Ceaselessly" meaning that he never ceases his shitposting, from first post being a rather weak RVS to the present, across three separate accounts.

I still think it sort of misrepresents the slot because 'never ceases/never stops' seems to me like a spammer but potato potato I guess..

Why aren't you voting your strongest scumread right now?

I am. You are my strongest scumread, or rather your slot is. I haven't unvoted yet.

Ok, that was a misinterpretation of your post on my part.

Updated gob numbers:
Powerful role like Cop: 3%
Vanilla Townie: 20%
Scum: 75%
Buffer(aka "give or take this amount of percentage points"): 2%

I was hoping these numbers would come with some sort of thought process of how you came to these new values. And how good of an idea do you think it is to post in this thread whether someone is a PR-read?

@Wanderer: Why are you voting me, by the way? If you want to stop yourself from being lynched, gob is your best bet, so I'm interpreting this as a genuine scumread on me. My question is what posts of mine seem scummy to you?

I voted you because I felt you were ignoring most of my questions and I want to interact with you to sort you.
357 379 You keep talking of unvoting my slot but you don't actually do it.

@Hopkirk: I checked back to see what I missed but it turns out that havingfitz asked her about her read on gob in 224.

[Wanderer-nl]

@stoz: Can you comment on what I said about Gob?

I think your best point by far is that gob leaves himself openings to change his reads.
*cut*
I still think VeeGee was scummy, and Wanderer's replace-in guns blazing reminds me so much of BlueBloodedToffee replacing in as scum my last game.

So what do you think about that?
I can't explain or defend what Veegee did. I do understand the scumreads and I don't know what I would have done if I wasn't in this slot. I'm not BBT and I don't know what else to say about this.

@gob: What are your thoughts on the other things I said about Vijay?

I think Vidjay is town, im more concerned about what VeeGee said.

i thought i already replied to this tbh, i said after re-reading he looked less bored than he did real time, i think him avoiding me is very suspicious however.

Well, not to everything I said. And it feels a little weird that you are agreeing with me on the things you did comment on.

151- got bored, wanted to move the game forward

271-On accountant? yes my read changed.

308- im still failing to see a question i havent answered yet.

But not back then, because in 302 you say you still view her as town and then say that view is slowly changing.

[Wanderer-nl]

@Accountant: Then why did I have to repeatedly ask for your updated numbers on gob? And where are your numbers on my slot? I think you could be buddies with gob and either Vijay or Dessew. I have to admit I didn't look into associations yet (I don't like doing that before any flip) but you and gob being buddies I'm basing on your reluctance to vote him even though you hinted at that, and gob townreading you while finding things you did scummy.

[Wanderer-nl]

It's not so much the numbers on my slot specifically as it is the you defending your using numbers this way but then needing many pushes to actually use them.

[Wanderer-nl]

Bah pagetop.. ^was at Accountant.

[Wanderer-nl]

Someone needs to hammer Accountant. You can all come after me tomorrow if she doesn't flip scum but I'm about 98% sure she will.

[Wanderer-nl]

VOTE: Accountant

So i quickly skimmed some posts from both Vidjay and Accountant, i do not think there is a strong bond between them, compared to something like VeeGee and Accountant, which to me, looks like late-day distancing.

There is a connection between them, dont get me wrong.

So you think I'm distancing from someone who was voting my slot for most of this Day?

[Wanderer-nl]

@stoz: You're acting as if Accountant was my only scumread. I don't like you keep repeating Veegee replaced out as scum before. It's something we already know, you've been saying it plenty, and I can't defend against that. I don't know Veegee's reasons for replacing out so I can't explain why those things happened. Maybe he just flakes out when he gets pressured period. I understand you shouldn't give a scumread a pass just because someone else replaced in, but please attack me on the things I did and not what Veegee did.

@texcat: I believe Salamence was scumreading Vijay independently of Accountant. He did scumread Accountant because of associations with Vijay.

[Wanderer-nl]

You guys should have kept lynching my slot yesterday, if you are all so fucking sure.
Anyway, going to reread some things about yesterday and post some crap which you guys won't read because you're all scumreading me anyway FOR IDIOTIC REASONS!

[Wanderer-nl]

I think it's weird both Klingon and SamX claimed they thought Accountant was suspicious but didn't vote there. Klingon looks a little more suspicious to me because she made a post with points against Accountant and didn't back it up with a vote.

I think gob's attitude towards Accountant was weird. 256 he has reasons for a scumlean/read on her but still gives her a townread. This keeps being the case until in 302 he says the townread is declining. Then eventually he votes Accountant because he says he saw a connection between her and me. He called it distancing and I still want a response to this:

VOTE: Accountant

So i quickly skimmed some posts from both Vidjay and Accountant, i do not think there is a strong bond between them, compared to something like VeeGee and Accountant, which to me, looks like late-day distancing.

There is a connection between them, dont get me wrong.

So you think I'm distancing from someone who was voting my slot for most of this Day?

[Wanderer-nl]

@Dessew: I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean to say about gob there.
Regarding Hopkirk; I think his Day 1 play was town-motivated.

[Wanderer-nl]

@Klingon: I'm aware of that. But you were the only one left voting for gob and that's kind of useless. Do you have other reads or are you trying to minimize associations?

[Wanderer-nl]

@Klingon: I'm aware of that. But you were the only one left voting for gob and that's kind of useless. Do you have other reads or are you trying to minimize associations?

Well, I think you, Dessew, Havingfitz, Stoz, andSalamence20 don't look superduper Townlike. I'm going to have to ISO all of you. (Unfortunately I can't start on that until tomorrow night.)

I thought Accountant was Scum and I was very wrong. I'm going to work harder at finding Scum now.

Your putting-off things kinda reminds of 11PM. I miss Vijay on your list btw. I remember you thinking he was scum yesterday, what's changed that?

PEdit: Hi Dessew. Got a follow-up to the question you asked me?

[Wanderer-nl]

I actually have Salamence as a townlean and also nothing has changed on my read of Vijay since yesterday so I don't really mind Salamence's vote. My priorities right now are with the people I can't read very well.

[Wanderer-nl]

I don't really care about your hubby babbling about his trunk. I care about your reads and opinions of this game.
What changed your read on Vijay?

[Wanderer-nl]

Well gob, you haven't contributed anything decent today (and yesterday for the most part) so how about you start that now?

I still have question open to several players, I'm not liking this activity right now.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm not married, no. I'm a daughter to a mother who is a nurse with chronic back-problems and a father who has been in a wheelchair after losing his legs at 27. I'm the oldest of three. And I'll have you know that I rent my house with a small garden where my cat can play whenever he wants.

Now back to the game.
I don't feel like it sucks to be in Veegee's spot. I somewhat expected a scum-role when I decided to replace in, regardless it is still a challenge and I like that. It does suck that stoz has his experience with Veegee replacing out as scum in another game. Other than that there isn't much to go on and certainly nothing that I can give clarity on.
If I am to be the one to be lynched then please hold the hammer until I get the chance to post.

Nothing has changed on my read of Vijay, I'm still not too sure about gob, it just seems too easy. I have a habit of overthinking even the smallest issues.

[Wanderer-nl]

How did this

VOTE: Accountant

So i quickly skimmed some posts from both Vidjay and Accountant, i do not think there is a strong bond between them, compared to something like VeeGee and Accountant, which to me, looks like late-day distancing.

There is a connection between them, dont get me wrong.

So you think I'm distancing from someone who was voting my slot for most of this Day?

turn ino this

woah okay guess a wagon is on me now

So you think I'm distancing from someone who was voting my slot for most of this Day?

yes.

---

Really funny how this game is going, all i see is Fitz targeting me with no reason over and over again, yet nobody gets on him.

?
(I just noticed that when I saw Hopkirk's post)

[Wanderer-nl]

@havingfitz - See posts 84 and 94, Hopkirk notices an odd interaction between VeeGee and Vijay, and Gob's lame readlist.

UNVOTE:

I'm not looking at Vijay as Scum now.

Still scumreading VeeJay and Gob.

Hopkirk seems to be noticing coaching between Vijay and Veegee and I don't understand how that leads to a townread on Vijay. Do you remember how you were reading Hopkirk at the time?
I checked back in your iso to see if I could find a read of Hopkirk from you, instead I found [post]100post] in which you wrote

*cut*
And as Hopkirk pointed out, the exchange between VeeGee and Vijay looks like 2 Scums with no Daychat.

You point back to this in your 235 so your townread on Vijay seems really odd to me. What did you think of gob's read on Vijay? You didn't really explain that.

[Wanderer-nl]

*cut*

But Vijay doesn't matter now, I just read the Queue forum, he's being replaced. Back to Square One with that slot.

Oh no. No way you're doing that. You didn't reset your scumread of Veegee when he replaced out so you don't get to do that on Vijay.

[Wanderer-nl]

Oh hi NM.
Ok in Chosen Mafia NM replaced me into a scumslot and his entrance was entirely different: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=63009 I won't go as far as to say this makes NM town now, but it does make me doubt my scumread on that slot.

@Klingon: There was no indication in that post that you iso'd Vijay and that despite of the coaching, which you thought was a good point, you still change to a townread on him.

[Wanderer-nl]

I had a little thinking but here is my intent to hammer gob.
gob: any last words?
Anyone else have something to say before this Day ends?

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm afraid NM won't tell us more than he already has (pretty much nothing) but we can always hope.
I wonder where SamX went.

[Wanderer-nl]

Wasn't there some connection between Dessew and gob? Sucks we can't ask Dessew about that anymore :/
Titus: if you look at Day 1 alone, what's your read of gob?

[Wanderer-nl]

@NM: How are your thoughts on Dessew defending gob several times during Day 1? Dierfire has already posted the most of it. I'm thinking that it may be too obvious for them to be buddies so maybe Dessew was just very off with his read. I had a hard time reading Dessew and really wanted to interact with him after gob's flip.

Not sure how to feel about Dierfire picking up what I mentioned about Dessew, so that's why I want him to catch-up on everybody.

I don't like Titus' vote on Dierfire because I wasn't really scumreading SamX anyway (also not quite townreading for that matter) and I'd like a catch-up from her as well.

[Wanderer-nl]

I have a lot of thoughts on NM's claim and I really want Texcat to respond to NM's accusation before I share my those.

[Wanderer-nl]

my thoughts*

[Wanderer-nl]

I have a lot of thoughts on NM's claim and I really want Texcat to respond to NM's accusation before I share my those.

my thoughts*

(had a new page)

[Wanderer-nl]

VOTE: Texcat

[Wanderer-nl]

I've been going through your games. You know what a gunsmith is.

[Wanderer-nl]

(obviously that was at texcat^)

[Wanderer-nl]

If you know what a gunsmith is you should be aware of what that means.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm just so flabbergasted that texcat is either this stupid to not get it or too stupid to even try this play :/ Someone. Just. Hammer.

[Wanderer-nl]

No one has told me who the doctor is protecting scum from.

Your buddies from the JOAT's vigshot.

[Wanderer-nl]

Yeah very close to lynch I figured Accountant was town but it was too late to do anything about it, sorry about that. I think Salamence realized too and that;s mostly what made me townread him. Sucks I died without ever revealing my target, once the claims got out I was sure my 'innocent' was a real innocent, but then it would have killed stoz, and I wasn't sure about being killed (but I could have, I saw it too) I did my thing N1 because I expected to have to claim Day 2.. And stoz didn't become a real suspect until after I died. I'm sorry I wasn't of much use.
I had fun though and so happy I can still say I don't get misslynched