Mini 1741: Day 3

[TheLhix]

Well basically after isoing zulfy then reading which made me iso keyser again and I realized it wasn't as strong as I thought. The only point that still sticks is the lack of reads early in his game. It seems like he putting off putting out a solid scum read. This by itself isn't really that scummy. Also going to Sydney tomorrow so will be having fun there.

Could you give more information as to how its a solid scum read?

[TheLhix]

Well basically after isoing zulfy then reading which made me iso keyser again and I realized it wasn't as strong as I thought. The only point that still sticks is the lack of reads early in his game. It seems like he putting off putting out a solid scum read. This by itself isn't really that scummy. Also going to Sydney tomorrow so will be having fun there.

Could you give more information as to how its a solid scum read?

A declarative "After I ______ I decided _____" isn't a objective read. What is the difficulty with people making logically comprehensive posts. Especially when trying to read scum.

[Keyser Söze]

Page 11-13

So, if Keyser were scum in this situation, I'd expect his scumbros to either be on the bus already, or trying to push an alternative lynch (or have their votes on the bus while also pushing alternatives).
If Keyser is the scum, do you think anyone fits this behavior pattern?
Basically, when scum are on the hook, I expect the behavior of other scum to change. They do things to try to save their team mates (or bury them for cred). Do you feel any of those behaviors are manifest this game, and if so, who / how?

I know that these questions were directed at Elyse - but what were your

own

thoughts?

That would have been a hilarious ending to the movie, by the way.

Just pictured this in my head and laughed-out-loud.

Link?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62271

IP looks pretty towny.

No I don't. What is this read? In my first newbie game, RC called me town for no reason and he was scum.

One instance doesn't make it a rule

- InputPrimary is telling us to look at RadiantCowbells with this meta-hint. Noted.

Lol I like this post. Input can be town for now.

What did you ''like'' about InputPrimary's post? That is an easy 'town'-read to dish out.

You can read RC by the amount of F-bombs.. He is town

...and yet another easy town-read dished out.

[Yimmy]

(expired on 2015-12-05 13:00:00)

(Sat Dec 5 @ 12:00:00 PM EST)

VOTECOUNT 1.05

• (2)
  TheLhix
  — Scorpius, Frozen Angel
  (1)
  Zulfy
  — Elyse
  (1)
  Mathilda
  — Aneninen
  (1)
  Frozen Angel
  — Keyser Söze
  (3)
  Keyser Söze
  — InputPrimary, Jake from State Farm, TheLhix
  (2)
  Jake from State Farm
  — Mathilda, Zulfy
  (0)
  Garmr
  —
  (0)
  Scorpious
  —
  (1)
  Elyse
  — RadiantCowbells
  (1)
  InputPrimary
  — Zoronos
  (0)
  Zoronos
  —
  (0)
  RadiantCowbells
  —
  (0)
  Aneninen
  —
  
  (1)
  [NOT VOTING]
  — Garmr
  
  With
  13

  alive
  , it takes
  7

  votes
  to lynch.

Frozen Angel is being force replaced for discussion of ongoing games (appologies for not warning the first time)

[Keyser Söze]

Page 14

Cause I'm not trying to "start my own thing". What part of I'm not playing like myself day one did you not understand?

...so, Jake from State Farm is not comfortable in his own skin and he wants to shout about it to everyone. I don't think think scum-Jake would have made such a big song and dance out of it. Jake wins an uncomfortable half town point.

Yup. You're making a lot of noise, but not doing much to actually scum hunt or push the game forwards.
You're in nulls-ville on my reads list at the moment.
I'm more interested in some other folks, and I want to see what Anen says next since he promised a To Be Continued on his last post.

"not doing much to actually scum hunt"

- a very harsh observation Zoronos.

"more interested in some other folks"

- why are you happy to keep Zulfy in your "nulls-ville"? You should have extra reason to not leave your null-reads in the dark (half a scum-point for Zoronos).

[I'm curious to see more Zulfy-Zoronos interactions now].

UNVOTE: keyser

Naked unvote - we love them! Trying to wash your hands of my wagon?

I like Jake right now as well,I don't see scum there..yet

"..yet"

- interesting open-ended closure there after a town-read. Let me predict, you'll then town-read him for something which is null-indicative...

Jake seems very relaxed

. He is an experienced player so it could be fake,but my early read on him is that he is comfortable.

Yup, I was spot on.

[Zoronos]

Page 11-13

So, if Keyser were scum in this situation, I'd expect his scumbros to either be on the bus already, or trying to push an alternative lynch (or have their votes on the bus while also pushing alternatives).
If Keyser is the scum, do you think anyone fits this behavior pattern?
Basically, when scum are on the hook, I expect the behavior of other scum to change. They do things to try to save their team mates (or bury them for cred). Do you feel any of those behaviors are manifest this game, and if so, who / how?

I know that these questions were directed at Elyse - but what were your

own

thoughts?

About to hop on a plane, so the brief version is that I don't think I'm seeing those behaviors. Which implies to me a town lynch, or some really odd scum strategy.
Or the scum just don't care one of them was at -1

[Keyser Söze]

Page 15

I think you are town. I think I caught something from you earlier,but very early

Yeah? What was it?

Yes, show me too please. I hate easy town-reads.

That softclaim was completely unnecessary, you're not the type to be rattled by an RVS wagon.

It was not a RVS wagon. I was being scum-read for post 78. But looking back, yes, it did reek of desperation, but that's where my heart was at that time: frustration.

Well for starters one could say my claim and the shit me and Jake did in P.5 officially moved us out of RVS and largely created most of the conversation proceeding afterwards that has got the town into a real hunting stance, while yours proved to be a drop in the ocean that you now largely backtrack and try to redirect or hide from.

Whatever motive you had for pulling the 'shit you did' during RVS, it was actually anti-town and modkill-worthy - I wouldn't brag about it if I was you.

I'm seeing Zulfy vs Jake as TvT here.

Yes. The fact it was going round in circles was amusing too.

Well basically after isoing zulfy then reading which made me iso keyser again and I realized it wasn't as strong as I thought. The only point that still sticks is the lack of reads early in his game. It seems like he putting off putting out a solid scum read.

This by itself isn't really that scummy.

Why mention it then? I prefer to digest the whole thread before posting read-lists/ISO analysis'.

about keyser. I don't like his play this game. We have an ongoing game which we lost all PR's because of a stupid soft claim in. I can't see why he soft claimed there.

You must stop doing this Frozen Angel.

Scum would be happy with the townread and not question it.

I don't know, it's becoming much popular for scum now.

[Keyser Söze]

Frozen Angel is being force replaced for discussion of ongoing games

I did warn you not to discuss ongoing games.

[Jake from State Farm]

One day I'll play a game to completion with her

[Scorpious]

In post 348, Scorpious wrote:I like Jake right now as well,I don't see scum there..yet"..yet" - interesting open-ended closure there after a town-read. Let me predict, you'll then town-read him for something which is null-indicative...In post 349, Scorpious wrote:Jake seems very relaxed. He is an experienced player so it could be fake,but my early read on him is that he is comfortable.Yup, I was spot on.

This made me lol.. Did you really just say you were going to predict something you already read?

What's wrong with "easy" reads? It's early,and I really don't do walls.. what are you getting at?

[RadiantCowbells]

The back and forth with Adenine interests me and I want more from this.

VOTE: Mathilda

[Zulfy]

Scorpious plus 1 por lo que dijo Keyser.
En mi teléfono y me da hueva luchar contra el autocorrect

[Garmr]

Well basically after isoing zulfy then reading which made me iso keyser again and I realized it wasn't as strong as I thought. The only point that still sticks is the lack of reads early in his game. It seems like he putting off putting out a solid scum read. This by itself isn't really that scummy. Also going to Sydney tomorrow so will be having fun there.

Could you give more information as to how its a solid scum read?

I mean he has no solid reads displayed at the time of this post I will be vla.

[Aneninen]

It's interesting though, how could I have answered your accusation perfectly so that you went away thinking "yeah that Math, she's one of us, she's town to the core y'know ..." ?

Yes, you could. I'm not performing

Regardless of Card

.
However, one thing bothers me a lot. That "one of

us

". Why are you

that

sure that I'm town? No townie could be sure about my alignment. (Although, this in itself is not essentially an alignment tell in a Closed Setup. Even scums can't be sure whether there's an SK, can they?)

Second question, assume for now that I am telling the truth in that last paragraph, what should I have said instead so that it didn't sound like it was appeasing you? Should I have lied?

The tone, Mathilda, that's it.

You're throwing out a lot of questions in a scatter gun approach and keeping everyone on their toes, but has anyone done the same to you? Is this a case of the best defence is offence? From what I can see you're not actually pursuing any line of questioning that far.

Is it my fault that hardly anyone engages me? Dafuq.

@Anen : I don't care about Mathilda being scum. I'm more concerned about you being one.

Whut?
It's

okay

to be concerned about my alignment, but it's

not

okay not to concern about Mathilda's!

I think it's more likely a townie would question a townread on themselves. Scum would be happy with the townread and not question it.

Refresh my memory, please!

TheLhix's 374 is a think that I find scummy. I can't point out anything particularly, but the

tone

of the post, that's too "over-explaining". I remember doing so as scum. (RadiantCowbells, I bet you remember Boonie's. THAT's what I mean!)

"not doing much to actually scum hunt" - a very harsh observation Zoronos.

Well, I've checked your recent posts and it seems to be true...

Or the scum just don't care one of them was at -1

That's unlikely.
What was that point when there was that L–1? Would you be so kind to tell me?

The back and forth with Adenine interests me and I want more from this.
VOTE: Mathilda

Good! ^_^

Scorpious plus 1 por lo que dijo Keyser.
En mi teléfono y me da hueva luchar contra el autocorrect

And I'm the one getting warnings every now and then because I drunkpost in German. Wißt ihr was?! Verdammt!

[RadiantCowbells]

Adenine looks somewhat towny in my last post.

Me likey.

[Mathilda]

The back and forth with Adenine interests me and I want more from this.

VOTE: Mathilda

What do you find interesting about it and how does voting for me encourage more dialogue between Adenine and myself?

[RadiantCowbells]

Don't you think that that pigeon is adorable?

[Aneninen]

We can't say it's not fun to play with RC. ^_^

[Mathilda]

It's interesting though, how could I have answered your accusation perfectly so that you went away thinking "yeah that Math, she's one of us, she's town to the core y'know ..." ?

Yes, you could. I'm not performing

Regardless of Card

.

You mean the best way for me to have answered your question was to not answer? I did but Zullfy asked why I had not responded.

However, one thing bothers me a lot. That "one of

us

". Why are you

that

sure that I'm town? No townie could be sure about my alignment.

Fair enough.

Are you town?

Obviously you're going to answer yes to this regardless of your alignment. That's a safe assumption to make for the purpose of having a conversation. That doesn't mean to say that I necessarily believe that you actually are town. The only one who I think is town at the moment is Zoronos although because of your questioning I am starting to put you in the town camp.

Second question, assume for now that I am telling the truth in that last paragraph, what should I have said instead so that it didn't sound like it was appeasing you? Should I have lied?

The tone, Mathilda, that's it.

Tone is subjective and is only an indicator based on how you play yourself as town or scum and have experienced other people playing

on this specific forum

. Different people play in different ways so it is not a reliable indicator.

I paid far more attention to tone in the last game I played on mafiascum when I was scum. I ended up in lylo with two townies convinced that the other one was the remaining scum. In this game though I don't really care if my tone attracts attention. It acts like bait and allows me to see who is actively looking for tells and who is being opportunistic.

After all, you are picking up on tone, whereas RadiantCowbell's vote could be seen as being opportunistic #385

[Mathilda]

Don't you think that that pigeon is adorable?

Even cooler when you think that all birds are dinosaurs.

[Aneninen]

Providing it was on MafiaScum, show me that game, Mathilda.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well Mathilda, you said that my vote COULD BE SEEN as opportunistic.

Do you think that it's opportunistic? Where are you at on my alignment?

[Mathilda]

Providing it was on MafiaScum, show me that game, Mathilda.

Same game that Jake can't remember playing #302. I started out really badly because it was the first game I had played on mafiascum from the beginning and wasn't familiar with the culture. I was also suffering a really bad cold that made me take days off work sick, which is extremely rare for me. After day 1 though I played it more carefully. I was doing the back and forth weighing up all possibilities thing on that thread that you have accused me of doing on this thread, but I spent a long, long time crafting each post to be careful about tone so I got away with it.

[Mathilda]

Well Mathilda, you said that my vote COULD BE SEEN as opportunistic.

Do you think that it's opportunistic? Where are you at on my alignment?

Well you didn't answer my question in #390 about your vote so I can't really see why you voted the way you did. At most all I can see it being is a pressure vote to encourage me to respond to Anoneneninenen.

I need to iso you before saying what I make of your alignment. I've been concentrating on other people for now but I'll pay more attention to you next.

[Aneninen]

I've checked that game, Mathilda, but I can't see a big difference in your posting style. That's not an alignment tell in itself, but it doesn't change my reads on you.

However, you're right about Jake. The game took place this September and he had 102 posts. Jake, how's it possible that you don't remember a game you had 102 posts in?