UNI MUM Mafia (Day 3, Stay Gold Pony)

[3dicerolling]

Pretty sure you are the only one taking it seriously.

[RolePlay25]

Agent, you literally quoted the post. Why would his mind jump to explanations for Diamond's behavior that did not involve him being a member of the mafia? Because he knows that diamond is not a member of the mafia, but acknowledges his behavior is scummy. It is attempting to solve our puzzle - but with a piece of information the town does not have.

If I'm correct, those are all roles that benefit from being lynched. Mafia does not benefit from being lynched. Kling made the comment because of the way Diamond is responding to pressure.

You are needling town instead of voting scum, agent.

Upgraded to totally useless

[Jeanne11]

Pretty sure you are the only one taking it seriously.

Anita Halley places her hand onto her forehead.

[Learned Hand]

Holiday prod dodge.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

but y'know what? I am tired. Tired of everything going on. I tried to help the town multiple times by keeping myself, a town pr, alive, but it seems that all town wants is death of said pr just because I used to play badly. I am trying to improve here, but all towns wants is my head, no matter which variables present themselves.

Saw this.

*hug* it takes time but I see you're improving. Baby steps.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Merry Christmas all.

~Titus

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. That's twice now that somebody else gets the credit/blame for something I did first. :p (this is in reference to explaining why kcs post wasn't particularly scummy)

[RolePlay25]

Au contraire, agent, KC's post was a scumclaim.

I merely hope after the game you are willing to accept that your logic was flawed.

[dramonic]

Votecount 4: Merry Miserable Xmas!

DiamondSentinel (4): ErrantParabola, 3dicerolling, Davsto, Learned Hand
sharky5x (2): Jeanne11, Roleplay25
Jeanne11 (2): tn5421, DiamondSentinel
zmuffinman (1): Edgar Allan Pro
3dicerolling (1): Mass Flop
tn5421 (1): Elbirn

Not Voting: Klingoncelt, Cerberus v666, sharky5x, Shiro, itlepip, zmuffinman

itlepip replaces BBMolla, effective immediately~!

It is 9 to lynch. Theoretical Deadline is in 10 days and 3 hours, although Holiday Special Extension is possible.

[3dicerolling]

Greeting Mr. Pip!

[itlepip]

Town - Cereberus

Next in line please.

Umm... why? The sample PM that Dram provided said Bystander. There is an implied modifier that almost always appears with that word: innocent. I don't see how you can confirm someone is town because they say their role pm says they are faction: bystander (especially now that Dram clarified). And no townie should have had any confusion because there's no way the win condition for bystander would be worded so vaguely if it was neutral, and if it was scum there would be a link to a scum pt, right?

So you're trying awfully hard to get town credit by appearing to "test" people, but your test isn't actually testing anything. Everyone in this game who got a town PM is smart enough to know that they got a town PM. I mean... Dram clarified, which is erring on the side of caution, but still. I'm trying to decide whether you really think you came up with some way to sort people with this or whether you're putting on a show. Titus is good at day one; I'll ask her. I would tend to lean towards you putting on a show being what we're seeing.

In any case, Dram has clarified so even if you legitimately thought you were getting something of value from what you were doing, the mod blew it up by clarifying.


Love, with eggnog made a little less thick with warm milk, and of course fresh from the oven cookies,
Drixx

Favorite post this game so far,

So far, I don't like the way dice is playing. That might change in the future, though.

Me neither.

VOTE: 3dice

I got 3dice as scum on opposite teams. That whole interaction is fake. Too early to be super sure, but let's see what comes out.

~Titus

This is actually so bad, it might actually be too bad to be scum.

And thus my weak Titus read has been procked, yay town hand!
Also 3dice may be scum here.

So, eh, just curious, what does everyone think would be the single most overpowered single target non game breaking non killing thing you could target someone with that benefits town? Let's call this a thought experiment. Skies the limit, except for the limits I made. Make stuff up. :P

pedit: Elbirn, maybe. I'm leaning towards one of the two of them being scum though, and that shiro just missed the first miller claim the same way I did, since it was just quote and a single word response in a post with other content. Unfortunately, in a situation like this we line ourselves up for two mislynches pretty easily, given that I'm sure the game has it's fair share of absurdity going on, which may very well include two millers.

peditx2: dun dun dun the omgus!

either this is a really bad soft claim where it really should be, or (more likely) this is scum reaching. The way I read this scum doesn't know how strong town roles are, so they are trying to weed out a cap before any potential claim.

@cerb, are you seriously going with the you should tolerate me being suboptimal defense? Yeah, that's not cool. Now, you're walking back your suggestion to lynch the millers. You need votes.

@elbrin, I think it's a strong possibility. 100% certainty, no. I think they both are likely millers, but that says nothing of their alignment. Scum would be dumb to cc miller, unless they were one given the heat millers get.

@3dice, huh?

@jeanne, why hesitant on calling it what it is? Both town and scum OMGUS.

I don't think you should tolerate me being suboptimal, but I think you should also realize that I feel just me putting a vote on them does way less for me than interacting with them and others does. The way I read you pointing out the flaw in my choices, the ones which you should expect, and thus should have no reason to point out, is an attempt to make sure those who don't know me and haven't played with me are aware of this "nonsensical" thing that I'm doing, this apparent contradiction between words and actions, so if you need to you have just that tiny bit of extra support for getting me lynched.

So don't tolerate me being suboptimal, but that can't ever be used to at all ever against me because it might help me get lynched later, I don't get why town would go for this defense. Basically it is saying sorry I'm new, but reads awkwardly because you also want to make sure you won't get lynched today. This is a FoS for now, probably will become a vote at the end of my catch-up

The fact that there are *two* miller claims changes the situation and puts us in a spot where, if we lynch both millers...and they actually are town...we just lined up two mislynches, and that inspires caution.

Has anyone said 'oh we should just lynch both millers', stating the obvious does not a town post make, quite the opposite in fact...

When you say "you need votes" are you saying people need to vote fo rme to put pressure on me, or are you saying that I need to vote in order to get the millers lynched?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sharky

I think Elbirn is town for this, I get the same vibes about Sharky. I've learned that those vibes are null, but I understand exactly where the naked vote came from at that point.

Catch up will continue.

Also hi 3die, happy christmas!

[Cerberus v666]

Town - Cereberus

Next in line please.

Umm... why? The sample PM that Dram provided said Bystander. There is an implied modifier that almost always appears with that word: innocent. I don't see how you can confirm someone is town because they say their role pm says they are faction: bystander (especially now that Dram clarified). And no townie should have had any confusion because there's no way the win condition for bystander would be worded so vaguely if it was neutral, and if it was scum there would be a link to a scum pt, right?

So you're trying awfully hard to get town credit by appearing to "test" people, but your test isn't actually testing anything. Everyone in this game who got a town PM is smart enough to know that they got a town PM. I mean... Dram clarified, which is erring on the side of caution, but still. I'm trying to decide whether you really think you came up with some way to sort people with this or whether you're putting on a show. Titus is good at day one; I'll ask her. I would tend to lean towards you putting on a show being what we're seeing.

In any case, Dram has clarified so even if you legitimately thought you were getting something of value from what you were doing, the mod blew it up by clarifying.


Love, with eggnog made a little less thick with warm milk, and of course fresh from the oven cookies,
Drixx

Favorite post this game so far,

So far, I don't like the way dice is playing. That might change in the future, though.

Me neither.

VOTE: 3dice

I got 3dice as scum on opposite teams. That whole interaction is fake. Too early to be super sure, but let's see what comes out.

~Titus

This is actually so bad, it might actually be too bad to be scum.

And thus my weak Titus read has been procked, yay town hand!
Also 3dice may be scum here.

So, eh, just curious, what does everyone think would be the single most overpowered single target non game breaking non killing thing you could target someone with that benefits town? Let's call this a thought experiment. Skies the limit, except for the limits I made. Make stuff up.

pedit: Elbirn, maybe. I'm leaning towards one of the two of them being scum though, and that shiro just missed the first miller claim the same way I did, since it was just quote and a single word response in a post with other content. Unfortunately, in a situation like this we line ourselves up for two mislynches pretty easily, given that I'm sure the game has it's fair share of absurdity going on, which may very well include two millers.

peditx2: dun dun dun the omgus!

either this is a really bad soft claim where it really should be, or (more likely) this is scum reaching. The way I read this scum doesn't know how strong town roles are, so they are trying to weed out a cap before any potential claim.

@cerb, are you seriously going with the you should tolerate me being suboptimal defense? Yeah, that's not cool. Now, you're walking back your suggestion to lynch the millers. You need votes.

@elbrin, I think it's a strong possibility. 100% certainty, no. I think they both are likely millers, but that says nothing of their alignment. Scum would be dumb to cc miller, unless they were one given the heat millers get.

@3dice, huh?

@jeanne, why hesitant on calling it what it is? Both town and scum OMGUS.

I don't think you should tolerate me being suboptimal, but I think you should also realize that I feel just me putting a vote on them does way less for me than interacting with them and others does. The way I read you pointing out the flaw in my choices, the ones which you should expect, and thus should have no reason to point out, is an attempt to make sure those who don't know me and haven't played with me are aware of this "nonsensical" thing that I'm doing, this apparent contradiction between words and actions, so if you need to you have just that tiny bit of extra support for getting me lynched.

So don't tolerate me being suboptimal, but that can't ever be used to at all ever against me because it might help me get lynched later, I don't get why town would go for this defense. Basically it is saying sorry I'm new, but reads awkwardly because you also want to make sure you won't get lynched today. This is a FoS for now, probably will become a vote at the end of my catch-up

The fact that there are *two* miller claims changes the situation and puts us in a spot where, if we lynch both millers...and they actually are town...we just lined up two mislynches, and that inspires caution.

Has anyone said 'oh we should just lynch both millers', stating the obvious does not a town post make, quite the opposite in fact...

When you say "you need votes" are you saying people need to vote fo rme to put pressure on me, or are you saying that I need to vote in order to get the millers lynched?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sharky

I think Elbirn is town for this, I get the same vibes about Sharky. I've learned that those vibes are null, but I understand exactly where the naked vote came from at that point.

Catch up will continue.

Also hi 3die, happy christmas!

I don't get lynched. I've been lynched twice in I have no idea how many games, but enough that I'm uncertain how many I've played(once by a scum team push when I was a SK) and neither one was a mislynch. I lack the words to communicate exactly how little fear of it I have. There's also a lot of subtext in that post, given most of my games on site have been with Titus, and given that Drixx knows me exceedingly well. You're free to scumread me for it, but it's a bad reason to scumread *me*. Also...I'm not new. I choose to do things my own way, because I utilize my votes in a different fashion than others, and I'm paranoid about quick lynches, not because I'm "new". Nobody should excuse bad play from me, if I'm inconsistent please fucking hang me for it, but where my vote is has little to do with my goals, and both heads of LH should know that very well.

About your other comment...I'm the one who originally suggested lynching millers, but my suggestion came after two claims came, when I thought there was only one. That post is specifying *why* my opinion on lynching miller claims changed from my previously held one..

Also welcome, I'm glad you're in the game and omg I can't express what a relief it is that someone is actually scum reading me, I thought I'd have to dive deep into the deliberate scumminess tank to give scum some reason to not shoot me.

[3dicerolling]

Cerberus pulls unlynchable role every game. The skill is real.

[itlepip]

Okay, 3dice and Elbirn are either scum or ignorant of the fact that losing an investigative hurts the town.

This whole conversation is just Jeanne clogging up the thread and then complaining when other people don't clog the thread more...

I have said nothing about losing an investigative this game.

Nice red herring argument though.

Lynching me or Sharky = losing an investigative.......

I'm not sure I'm going to ever fully believe Jeane is town after that post, is she just softing neightbor or soft claiming for Sharky?

(in reality though, I think naked votes are always questionable. ALWAYS.)

They are questionable, but that doesn't mean that they are scummy by definition obviously. A naked vote is much better than not voting, which seems to be the trend this game.

Speaking of which, (look ahead edit, holy shit Diamond voted, what happened)

This is already a fun game...

P.S. I still hate you, Dramonic.

Any vote on me automatically means that I am getting lynched. That's just how it is. So it's better I prevent it from the get go than be sorry I didn't.

please explain this.

Jeanne is a gut-scum read for me.

+1

...And maybe tn and Diamond, then molla and Diamond.

ErrantParabola
zmuffinman
Shiro
Jeanne11

Cerberus v666

DiamondSentinel
BBMolla
tn5421

Learned Hand
sharky5x

roleplay25
Klingoncelt
Edgar Allan Pro

Davsto

Elbirn
3dicerolling

(Though...even then, maybe not? The Learned Hand tier seems a bit low. :?)
Ack.
I'm going to eat.
I'll figure something out later.

This'll have to do for now.

Wow I disagree with all of this, if this is Flop's meta then okay, but if not you are moving up on the scum list.

Well shit. I reread and both 3dice and Jeanne are scummy AF

Diamond is giving reads unprompted O_O, Yay!!

@Jeanne: you never told me if I should stop voting Sharky or not.

@DS: how are insults mixed with content indicative of scum, as opposed to being a snarky or agressive play style?

Well, it's not strictly, but since they are acting the same way, and I'm scum-reading one, it follows that the other is also scummy.

PEdit: It was partial snark, partial me commenting on how he's making another shitty miller claim. To be honest, all these miller claims are ridiculous, and making me lose interest in the game. We should lynch each and every one of them.

When I talked about Cerbus's post, it was because lynching all the millers is dumb. It doesn't mean that someone should actually advocate it... there goes the +1 :(

PEdit: It was partial snark, partial me commenting on how he's making another shitty miller claim. To be honest, all these miller claims are ridiculous, and making me lose interest in the game. We should lynch each and every one of them.

this only makes my vote a better one.

Missed that.

VOTE: Diamond Sentinel

That makes me pretty sure he's definitely not aligned with one of you two and scum don't claim miller.

I hope Drixx doesn't mind.

~Titus

Hand town read is stronger now, also gets points for stepping in for Jeane, even if I think she might be scum.

Vig shot was fake.

Pretty sure jeanne is town though.

I think Dice is town for this read/reaction test. Jeane not so sure, I feel like cause role told you to say who you would vig earlier in the game, it was easy to know it was a fake vig (I was certain it was fake before you revealed for that reason) that that reaction was easy to fake, and her post didn't do anything super for me, why claim if you are about to flip anyway?

[Cerberus v666]

Cerberus pulls unlynchable role every game. The skill is real.

Word. I was IC one of those times, and mason another one of the games, so those are pretty unlynchable and I don't really deserve the credit there. :p

[itlepip]

I don't get lynched. I've been lynched twice in I have no idea how many games, but enough that I'm uncertain how many I've played(once by a scum team push when I was a SK) and neither one was a mislynch.

Cool so I shouldn't worry this game then. This feels like it is setting up a gambler's fallacy (I know because I ran into it), so yeah you are going to get the scumread you asked for

I lack the words to communicate exactly how little fear of it I have. There's also a lot of subtext in that post, given most of my games on site have been with Titus, and given that Drixx knows me exceedingly well. You're free to scumread me for it, but it's a bad reason to scumread *me*. Also...I'm not new. I choose to do things my own way, because I utilize my votes in a different fashion than others, and I'm paranoid about quick lynches, not because I'm "new". Nobody should excuse bad play from me, if I'm inconsistent please fucking hang me for it, but where my vote is has little to do with my goals, and both heads of LH should know that very well.

First off saying 'you can't lynch me' is grating on my nerves. You are behind Jeane right now in terms of scumminess so probably not today

About your other comment...I'm the one who originally suggested lynching millers, but my suggestion came after two claims came, when I thought there was only one. That post is specifying *why* my opinion on lynching miller claims changed from my previously held one..

Yeah, someone cced a miller, so you should lynch one of the millers... I'm glad you fixed your first post, but you didn't take credit for your mistake.

Also welcome, I'm glad you're in the game and omg I can't express what a relief it is that someone is actually scum reading me, I thought I'd have to dive deep into the deliberate scumminess tank to give scum some reason to not shoot me. ;)

Okay this is straight BS. I'm scum reading you because you are playing so safe and scared of conflict or people scumreading you. If you actually wanted to do this and weren't just taking the piss you would be doing gambits and fake claims instead of once in a while making a routine post without any real reads in it.

Also if this was just a setup for one of your 'unlynchable roles' I am going to be irked.

Nice meeting you :)

[itlepip]

Ok, I'm betting 3dice and Jeanne are both scum. No way this was TvT, and it seems to rehearsed for TvS

What if I told you I was masons with Jeanne, how would that change your appraisal and why?

If this was confirmed I would be mad. I don't think scum would claim mason with a partner, but it isn't impossible.

If it were good theory in training, as you said agent, does it not apply in the field?

Your style is your own, for I shall not target a claim of mason at first dawn, but I mislike such reversals.

I never claimed mason. I presented a hypothetical in order to receive a response which I have not yet received. And just because I agree it's bad practice to rely upon past games as ones reasoning for reads in the current one does not mean I believe doing so is scummy.

*whew. Okay, I am beginning to feel a Jeane and Cerberus world.

3dice feels sorta similar to the game where he was my scumpartner but I don't know his town game so I'm not gonna do anything on that front.

Well shit. I reread and both 3dice and Jeanne are scummy AF

Talk about going for the easy targets.
VOTE: DiamondSentinel

That post is just... WOW. So ridiculously stupid.

"I have someone who I think is scum, and there's someone else who also thinks that they're scum, but the scummy person is an easy target (even though I think they might be scum) so I'm going to vote the person scumreading them."

Get the fuck out of here.

I never said I scumread 3dice, stop intentionally misinterpreting my posts.

I am reading it the way Diamond did, but Davsto is NAI from this

I don't want to be replaced. >.>

You won't be! We're just gonna be quiet so we don't bloat the thread for the half of the game that isn't posting and thus might not be reading.

great, my top two scumreads are going to stop talking, because one told the other to stop talking. I am counting that weird prod paranoia and Cereberus not correcting her to be scum indicative.

I hate it when people say that. "You look like you're leaving an opening for backpedaling" or the like, where they're like "ooooh setting up to do X". No, you're assuming that. If you think someone's leaving an opening for something, note it down somewhere that isn't inthread and then call them out when they actually do it. All you're doing otherwise is scumreading someone for potentially doing something in the future which they haven't actually done and may never have been planning to do, or you may simply let scum know not to do that when they would have, stopping them from doing something scummy.

Basically, those reads are awful and I immediately lean towards someone being scummy when they do it because anyone can go "they look like they're getting ready to do something scummy" and get a free, easy scumread.

PEdit: Insane Cops are bastard tho

Holy shit this. I might need to save this rant for later, I have made this exact point in a few other games. *applause.

Before I stop posting, I'd say I'm game.

VOTE: tn

~Bye bye~

Wee random wagon if nonsense but won't explain why...

Will finish catching up tomorrow, not excited to read a day of posts without my scumreads though.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Cerberus fuck it.
The fact that he hasn't voted, hasn't really any reads, and his entire game is just small points (actively lurking) rather than real content is bad, especially when he is making a big show of not going to be lynched is pretty scummy in my book.

[Cerberus v666]

^^ I like making a big show of not being lynched, never being mislynched in spite of a style people typically read as scummy in the early game is a point of pride for me.

You do realize that being unhappy to read a day (btw, a day where very little happened, it's like two pages because nobody else was talking) where your existing scum reads aren't talking is basically admitting to massive confbias in your read through of the game. You're not searching for scum, you're searching for reasons why the conclusions you've already arrived at are correct.

[DiamondSentinel]

I'm liking itlepip's show so far, all though I'm a bit apprehensive.

[itlepip]

I am going to read those pages obviously. But I know that I generally don't change scumreads this early based on what other people say, so if I am going to change my read on you two it would only come from your posts. When you guys stop posting (under weird circumstance) it means that any confbias I had won't improve until I get past that day. I will say you haven't really addressed the reasons I am scumreading you, but are focusing on the comments that went along with that read.

I honestly don't want to mess up your mislynch streak, but you keeping on throwing the word mislynch in for no good reason is like saying "I'm town" a whole bunch of times. It sucks in general, and is marginally scummy.

As much as I don't like your confidence in not being lynched, I do really think that you and jeane are scum together completely independent of that.

[itlepip]

I'm liking itlepip's show so far, all though I'm a bit apprehensive.

I like your play this game too. I hammed it up during fire and ice, I don't mind you style as much as I made it seem; but I do like Diamond that gives reads and votes much better than sit-out all of day 1 Diamond :) .

[tn5421]

Besides, I will never go after tn.

You are voting tn?

what the fuck?


Does anyone else not understand why RP25 isn't sharing his reasoning with anyone about anything?

[Cerberus v666]

I am going to read those pages obviously. But I know that I generally don't change scumreads this early based on what other people say, so if I am going to change my read on you two it would only come from your posts. When you guys stop posting (under weird circumstance) it means that any confbias I had won't improve until I get past that day.

I will say you haven't really addressed the reasons I am scumreading you, but are focusing on the comments that went along with that read.

I honestly don't want to mess up your mislynch streak, but you keeping on throwing the word mislynch in for no good reason is like saying "I'm town" a whole bunch of times. It sucks in general, and is marginally scummy.

As much as I don't like your confidence in not being lynched, I do really think that you and jeane are scum together completely independent of that.

That would be because I'm not concerned about you scumreading me because enough of this game has played with me before to know the reasons you're given are common reasons to scum read me for those who haven't played with me before. If I were playing with a game full of strangers I might consider taking the time(while mobile) to show you why your reasons are wrong(there's at least one point where you apparently misunderstood me) but, meh. Not worth right now, and it's much more useful to me to see how you act while scum reading me than it is to waste time defending myself.

[Cerberus v666]

Besides, I will never go after tn.

You are voting tn?

what the fuck?


Does anyone else not understand why RP25 isn't sharing his reasoning with anyone about anything?

RP25's lack of clear communication is a bit annoying, but I think he's actually given his reasons for all of his reads...but none of the reasons are especially strong.