Newbie 1673: University of Mafiascum Class 108 - D4- OVER!

[Kahlan]

/confirm

[Kahlan]

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

[Kahlan]

VOTE: extrapolated Eagle

[Kahlan]

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

This is interesting.

VOTE: Kahlan

Serious vote.

What is everyone's mafia experience?

@extrapolated eagle It would seem some of us in here are newbies to the mafia world since we are just learning the game in a newbie forum . Now only some who is truly guilty would be accusing vote as a serious vote. Why are you so worried? Are you scared we are right with our votes?

[Kahlan]

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

3-0 as scummer. No other reason. Why are you voting with drixx on EE?

Well I didn't have a set reason other then I just zoned in on extrapolated eagle name but now that he feels he need to accuse me of serious voting and then vote for me. I think I might be making the right choice with my vote.

[Kahlan]

@Extrapolated Eagle what does RVS mean?

[Kahlan]

@extrapolated eagle what is a RVS mean?

[Kahlan]

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

This is interesting.

VOTE: Kahlan

Serious vote.

What is everyone's mafia experience?

@extrapolated eagle It would seem some of us in here are newbies to the mafia world since we are just learning the game in a newbie forum . Now only some who is truly guilty would be accusing vote as a serious vote. Why are you so worried? Are you scared we are right with our votes?

Based on your response I would say it isn't I who is scared right now, and I have a wagon of three on me.

You do realize you voted someone who gave a reason for their vote and then followed up by asking their reasons for voting are, correct?

Usted is actually my towniest read right now based on his vote, and the fact that your question seems to make his reason for voting seem less than good reason during RVS is questionable.

I would also like to point out that by questioning a player for reasons after placing your own vote down implies that there is reasoning behind your vote as well, which in turn implies that it is not an RVS vote. This gets me curious: what are your reasons for voting me, that are better than usted s reason for voting workdawg?

Really it would seem you are scared because you have so many votes stacked against you. My reasoning for asking @Usted a question to see if he had a valid point against workdawg so that I can see if my decision was the a good choice or not. Now that I've seen that there are other you have voted for you it seems that it's a good choice to stick with. However I don't know what a RVS means?

[Kahlan]

@Extrapolated Eagle what does RVS mean?

Oh. *sigh*

RVS stands for Random Voting Stage. It's a strategy typically used to start off a mafia game in which many players vote different players for random reasons. I.e. "his username is long" It can help jumpstart a game into discussion which leads to content and people reacting to said discussion, which gives people a way to read other people - from the content said people produce from their interactions and discussions.

Other ways players like to start games include: RQS (random questioning stage) and also absolutely nothing. The former can lead to slow, meager starts sometimes, since it is tame, and the last just leads to straight up lurking. Because of these reasons, it is of popular belief at this point in the meta of mafia that RVS is the best way to start a mafia game as it can rile people up and get emotions flowing, which leads to more genuine reactions as people release their raw emotions into the thread.

Out of curiosity, how many mafia games have you played before? How many on a forum?

Okay got it thanks for explaining. I'm new to all of it.This is my first game actually in mafia and on a forum. I'm slow learning.

[Kahlan]

Really it would seem you are scared because you have so many votes stacked against you. My reasoning for asking @Usted a question to see if he had a valid point against workdawg so that I can see if my decision was the a good choice or not. Now that I've seen that there are other you have voted for you it seems that it's a good choice to stick with. However I don't know what a RVS means?

You see my problem with that is that I think Usted had a plenty valid reason to vote workdawg being one of the first couple posts in the game and the fact that you don't think that reason is good enough, and yet fail to question drixx is curious. Quite so, in fact, because I particularly like Usteds reason for voting workdawg, not because of what it says about workdawg, but because, as I'm sure you know, it shows Usted is wary of workdawg being a player who openly shares the fact that he has not yet lost a game as scum. And the fact that Usted is scared and wary here makes me think he's town - the fear seems quite towny to me. On top of this, you question his reason for voting workdawg, implying that it is not valid to be wary of someone just because they have not lost as mafia, three posts into the game. You actually indirectly defend workdawg, the scummiest type of defending, in my opinion.

Okay I understand usted had a valid reason for his vote against workdawg and You say I didnt think it was a good enough reason? Why because I didn't change my vote? I never said anything against Usted vote if I thought his reasoning was good or not. I question to see if he has a valid reason that I personal cannot see. However I would like to also know why @workdawg has scum 3-0 posted on his first post? It does look bad for him.

[Kahlan]

Lol oh Okay okay so I knew I should have asked the usted meant by "that sig." I thought that was just his signature for some reason and didn't know that was his reason. My mistake. I can see my error. I would be undecided right now in my vote so I UNVOTE: Extrapolated eagle

[Kahlan]

This is my second game that I have played here at mafiascum. RVS was a term that I had to look up on the wiki site. Scummy/Scummer is a phrase that I was able to very easily interpret as mafia. That's just my two cents.

I think that EE is being a bit overzealous on Kahlan questioning my vote. I didn't see her questioning of my vote to be defending Dawg, I just figured that she was trying to start some conversation.

However I do find it strange that no one has mentioned anything to Dominator. Came in, votes like two others already had(sheep), and hasn't said anything since. I feel that noob scum would try to stay under the radar as much as possible, try not to stir much drama, and let town fight it out between themselves.

Also EE this is a newb game so people are gonna have questions. Let's treat everyone with respect.

On the other side of things if you have questions you can ask here or go to:http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

Thanks @usted.

[Kahlan]

@usted I think you have some good points. Although dominator said in his first post v/la ( which I think mean vacation/ limited access?) I would say that's why he hasn't been posting? Then again why come in and just vote and not take part in more post? Maybe your on to something Usted. Maybe dominator is staying quiet so we will fight against each other

[Kahlan]

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

Well the honest truth is I was in the process of typing out EEs name to vote when Drixx voted before me. I'm very slow at typing ( in the process of practicing ) so I just reworded my vote because I thought that was how I was suppose to do in order to show I'm part of the town and who I wanted to vote for was just the same as Drixx. I was asking questions because I though that is what we were suppose to do to wager on if we are voting right or if votes need to be changed. I honestly didn't realize you have already put a reason to your vote. That is why I asked the question. And still voted for who I was using as my RVS vote.

[Kahlan]

@drixx this being my first game I actually didn't pick up on what you did. Although I can kind of see what you mean now that you are pointing it out. i think I'm getting confused a little though. I hope you all can bare with me while my brain catches up. Lol

[Kahlan]

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

The obvious reason I referred to was that he posted but didn't put up an RVS vote.

There was also a bit of a reaction test there. He also appeared to be trying to get some town cred by appearing to be helpful/cautious and I wanted to see if anyone would pick up on that.

I understand the first reason, and I would have plopped an RVS down if I thought the game had started already, but every other game on this site has started with a mod post, so I wanted to make sure. I don't see how that was alignment indicative at all, but I guess?

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

Well the honest truth is I was in the process of typing out EEs name to vote when Drixx voted before me. I'm very slow at typing ( in the process of practicing ) so I just reworded my vote because I thought that was

how I was suppose to do in order to show I'm part of the town and who I wanted to vote for was just the same as Drixx.

I was asking questions because I though that is what we were suppose to do to wager on if we are voting right or if votes need to be changed. I honestly didn't realize you have already put a reason to your vote. That is why I asked the question. And still voted for who I was using as my RVS vote.

The bold part pings my scumdar hard.

Also you were going to vote for me before drixx did? Why?

Your scumdar must be picking up what your dishing out. I could probably ask you the same question.. There were three votes against you why did you pick me? Before all of my other post you picked me..Like I have said before I'm newbie to all of this so I vote how I thought I was suppose to vote by picking someone. I didn't really have a reason other then your name just popped out to me. I figured once we got our conversation going my vote would change as more facts came to light but instead I'm getting hounded by you because I had voted for you and didn't change my vote. If you haven't notice I have unvoted but it seems like you can let it go. Like your trying to distract others from you or trying to make me look bad because I'm new. Am I just an easy target?

[Kahlan]

@drixx what do we normally look for when looking for scum?

[Kahlan]

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

Well the honest truth is I was in the process of typing out EEs name to vote when Drixx voted before me. I'm very slow at typing ( in the process of practicing ) so I just reworded my vote because I thought that was how I was suppose to do in order to show I'm part of the town and who I wanted to vote for was just the same as Drixx. I was asking questions because I though that is what we were suppose to do to wager on if we are voting right or if votes need to be changed. I honestly didn't realize you have already put a reason to your vote. That is why I asked the question. And still voted for who I was using as my RVS vote.

EE, you are misinterpreting part of your case against Kahlan. You said that she was buddying drixx for town cred. She claims to have RVS'd you all on her own and just didn't submit until after drixx made his vote.

I read through this:

I just reworded my vote because I thought that was how I was suppose to do in order to show I'm part of the town and who I wanted to vote for was just the same as Drixx.

as saying she was buddying drixx after seeing preview edit. Am I reading this wrong?

I probably worded it wrong to begin with because I wasn't budding with Drixx I was just RVS voting and worded the way I did because I was voting for the same person. My wording was not intended to make me look like I was budding up with Drixx even though I was sharing the same vote.

[Kahlan]

Also scummy = subjective. Different people will see different things as scummy based on previous experiences. Like newbie probably doesn't think it's very scummy to fos someone during rvs. That's scummy to me. It looks like someone is afraid to take a stance on someone and on the other site I played on Wed lynch you fast for that business. Idk. But your going to have to get used to playing with people who think and play different than you, bud. Because it's not acceptable to just go around telling people that their playstyle is wrong.

Pedit: yes. I didn't cherry pick drixx. I responded to just about every one of his posts, barring the one where he talks to kahlan about how to play which was irrelevant to alignment, IMO. How is that cherry picking?

My questions push my reads my way. If you've got a problem with that, replace out or get over it. You can't have a solid flow of questions and thoughts that lead somewhere if you don't have somewhere to start and it's really foolish to just progressively push one person all game long.

Why would you want to push reads your way?

[Kahlan]

Ok. What do you think of kahlan and that whole interaction?

I find Kahlan null. I find her a bit iffy(?) in the beginning but as I read more, I think she was just trying to get use to how things are around here.
Do you mean the interaction between you and her or her and Drixx?
You and her: I think you are being overzealous. Some of the things you accused her of doing, she never said it and I don't see her implying it. I have posted an example in my first post: 64
Her and Drixx: they don't seem like a scum team because she probably would have ask her questions in mafia PT.

@newbieinmafia you are right I'm trying still trying to figure things out. I felt almost attacked every time by EE because EE kept over analyzing every single sentence I write. To try and find any and every form of defense lines he could in order to what? To try and make me look like scum? He continuously thinking Im lying because clearly I can't be a newbie in a newbie game. In his tactics of trying to make me look defensive to get others to see his way it just make me suspicious of him. I think he is overanalyzing everything I say. And he clearly want people here to see it his way or no way at all.

[Kahlan]

With this being my first game I have ever played I didn't realize how crazy things could get in here. I may need to take a step back and Reread everything to get a clearer prospective on who I think might be scum.

[Kahlan]

With this being my first game I have ever played I didn't realize how crazy things could get in here. I may need to take a step back and Reread everything to get a clearer prospective on who I think might be scum.

I'm no veteran, but in order to scum hunt people question others, they analyze other, they put a microscope on others to see how they react. If they react one way it's scummy, another way it's townie. Everything day1 pretty much comes down to slips, gut feels, and luck. If you feel like you are being attacked don't take it personally. Let it be an opportunity for your towniness to shine (or perhaps to hide your scumness?)

Don't take things personally. (That's easier said than done!). Interrogation is part of the game

Well said. I understand that completely. It is hard not to take things personal when you feel like your being attacked. Thanks for the advice. I'll try and shine bright

[Kahlan]

What's your avatar? kahlan from legend of the seeker
What's your time zone? MST
How often do you expect to post? As many as I am able.
Which player in the game do you know best? Don't know anymore here
Yellow button, green button or red button? green button. Green is a pretty color.

[Kahlan]

Spoiler: Incorrect VC

Day 1, Votecount 1

Drixx (3): Usted, Extrapolated Eagle, N e s s
Extrapolated Eagle (3): Drixx, Kahlan, TheDominator37
TheDominator (1): Workdawg

Not Voting (2)

: newbieinmafia, Thespio

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Tuesday January 12, 2016 2:30 PM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-12 14:30:00)

TheDominator37 is V/LA until Wednesday

I had unvoted my vote from earlier. Would I still be counted under voted for EE?

~~~.Thanks. It's been ammended now. ~.Zar

[Kahlan]

Oops!! I was logged in under my husbands account Please know I'm sorry for the mistake! I will make sure I post under my name from now on.

Hey guys, sorry I have been MIA all day today. So my post will probably be a little lengthy. I'll start by answering @EE...

@Kahlan
What are your thoughts on players this far, especially Drixx?

Also, is English your first language?

Yes my first language is English but as I stated before this is my first game and first time playing on a forum. I'm not saying that to be defensive just stating a fact so you know where I'm coming from in my gaming experience . I don't do well typing on my phone to begin with so if some of my post are confusing or aren't making any sense I apologize. I will try to re-read my post before I send them out. Now on to my thoughts on the players...

After much thought here is what I'm thinking..
Drixx in my opinion is not scum. Even after a few comments that made him look scummy I didnt think they stacked that much against him to make him scum. I just think EE was trying to make him look scummy because Drixx had voted for him. Of course I could be wrong in my thinking because I'm still learning how to play.

Now EE. I so badly want to think he is scum because he has done so much to make him seem scummy. The truth is right now I don't think he really is scum. I just think he is trying to save his own skin and not die the best way he know how and that is to pull attention to himself and take down anyone who votes against him. Granted he seems to change his vote a bit and it tends to always be towards the ones who vote for him. Instead of looking for the actual people who are scum. It's almost like a defense mechanism. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad.

Newbie and Usted arent giving me a scum feeling either yet. They have also made a few valid points here and there.

@EE - I understand what you mean but I find it worrying that you find half the players scummy and that you said you read posts in "scummiest light" on day 1. atm, my guts say you are not scum though

because scum probably won't want to stand out so much

.

I think Newbie had a good point here. Scum probably wouldn't stand out as much as EE is.

The Dom I dont know yet if he is town or scum. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Ness- I'm getting a little scum reading off of ness. Here is why I feel he is scum:
Ness was so sure EE was scum that he voted for him almost immediately when he started to post. He continue to try and take EE down. Im not sure if he just gave up or figured he wasnt going to get his scummy ways past EE. Its probably why he moved on to Drixx.

That's me not admitting I misinterpreted him. That's me saying I worded it in a way that was apparently confusing the first time because everyone was misinterpreting me.

but you're right. If you are on the same page as me as you claim and you read all of that correctly, then you're either stupid or intentionally misrepresenting me. However. Since it is very apparent that you aren't understanding a word I write, I'm going to excuse your ignorance and move on with my life.

PEdit: playstyle talk was at Ness, newbie

@kahlan I push reads my way because that's how I know to push reads.

Pedit 2. My posts are treating you like a complete idiot to mafia because you're completely misinterpreting almost every word I say and then insisting that you understand completely when you say we're on the same page.

And ironic, isn't it, that you get mad at me because you think I talk to you like an idiot, yet you speak to me sarcastically. Yes. I know what pushing is. I have done the most of it since the game started out of any one player. Again the irony strikes, because one reason you are pushing me seems to be because I am pushing my reads.

Pedit 3. So... In other words I've called two out of the four people who have put their vote on me scum, and one person who hasn't? I'm sorry, where's the pattern here? And weren't we just talking about how I was pushing reads and my questions don't lead anywhere? So how am I asking questions if I'm only calling people who vote me scum?

*sighs*

yeah, neither of us are getting anywhere with this constant argueing. I'm just going to put you as FoS.
But, i like these responses. I'm just going to move on from you for now.

VOTE: Unvote

why after all those post trying to make EE look like scum he just Sighs and changes his mind about EE being scum then just make him FoS but then almost immediately starts to go after Drixx? Who by the way is another easy target. When Ness came into the game Votes where already stack against EE and Drixx making them easy target for scum to make look bad in order to make himself not look scummy.

Excuse me usted-

if i'm a "scummer",

why would i call out both Drixx and EE when i started posting?

My thoughts pretty much answer this post. He called them out because they were easy targets in order to make himself look like a townie.

Although I think Ness could be Scum I think Workdawg is probably my top pick for scum so far and I have a few reasons... reason one which take us all the way back to the beginning when Usted voted for him.

I believe the game starts now,
VOTE: workdawg

That sig.

Granted at the time I did get a little confused but I see for what it truly was/is. Workdawg sig is very interesting. The fact that it make him look like he enjoy playing scum and feel cocky or maybe over confide in his skills to play scum.
My other reason for which I believe he is scum is this comment he made...

Alright, this is going to be a few posts, because I have a lot of thoughts.

First off, some smaller, one-off thoughts...

Ok. What do you think of kahlan and that whole interaction?

....
Her and Drixx: they don't seem like a scum team because she probably would have ask her questions in mafia PT.

This is actually a very dangerous assumption, if she (Kahlan) is scum she SHOULD be asking all her questions in this thread to make sure that she looks like a newb so that any potential slips would be viewed as potential newb tells and not scum tells

.

I feel Newbieinmafia had very valid point especially for a newbie game. I think workdawg gives a scummy response. First off this is a newbie game is it not? isn't the point to ask questions to get familiar with the game? and what newbie or I should say a newbie with little to no experience in this game would even think of posting questions in the thread like how workdawg has stated would be what he think he is in the mind set of a scum. He is basically set this 'Dangerous Assumption' up to hurt the town because how are we ever going to be safe to ask questions if we are accused of being scum when we ask questions. This statement just rubs me the wrong way. It is why for now I VOTE: workdawg

It is late for me where I am so I probably wont respond back until later.

~~~. Since this is a quote of a double post, I will acknowledge the vote. Bear in mind for other instances that votes inside quotes or spoiler tags do not count. ~.Zar

[Kahlan]

@Kahlan - even though I said scum probably wouldn't want to stand out much, it's pretty weak reasoning, which is why I attribute it to gut feeling.
also, I think you are misunderstanding workdawg's post. and his sig is not alignment indicative~ he will have that sig whether he drew town or scum.

Okay it should be clear to everyone by now that I don't have as much as experience in this game. This is my actual first game and it's a little hard for me to keep up with everyone. I still stand by my vote for now. @newbie and @ee wither or not if he was drawn as scum his sig has to have some significance. In my mind it probably has some personal significance to him and who he is as a person because if it didn't then why keep the signature? Granted that is not a big reason to call him out as scum that is why I had my second reason. Now what I'm gathering is most of you agree with workdawg statement but I still don't. In my mind he is saying that to create doubt in the town. Now everyone will zero in on the newbies asking question sincere or not. Even if you don't plan to do it and you don't see anything wrong with what workdawg said you will probably analyze every question asked by a newbie to find a deeper hidden message that might not be there. Just how EE did to me in the beginning.. He analyzed every one of my question and then accused me of budding with Drixx and being scum because I was asking questions as a newbie that I needed answered.. Alright in this game I figured we are suppose to break down and analyze our follow townies in order to find scum but isn't scums job to create doubt and confusion in our minds. For now I still feel like he is scum and I feel like his mind set is that of scums.

[Kahlan]

@Kahlan - even though I said scum probably wouldn't want to stand out much, it's pretty weak reasoning, which is why I attribute it to gut feeling.
also, I think you are misunderstanding workdawg's post. and his sig is not alignment indicative~ he will have that sig whether he drew town or scum.

Okay it should be clear to everyone by now that I don't have as much as experience in this game. This is my actual first game and it's a little hard for me to keep up with everyone. I still stand by my vote for now. @newbie and @ee wither or not if he was drawn as scum his sig has to have some significance. In my mind it probably has some personal significance to him and who he is as a person because if it didn't then why keep the signature? Granted that is not a big reason to call him out as scum that is why I had my second reason. Now what I'm gathering is most of you agree with workdawg statement but I still don't. In my mind he is saying that to create doubt in the town. Now everyone will zero in on the newbies asking question sincere or not. Even if you don't plan to do it and you don't see anything wrong with what workdawg said you will probably analyze every question asked by a newbie to find a deeper hidden message that might not be there. Just how EE did to me in the beginning.. He analyzed every one of my question and then accused me of budding with Drixx and being scum because I was asking questions as a newbie that I needed answered.. Alright in this game I figured we are suppose to break down and analyze our follow townies in order to find scum but isn't scums job to create doubt and confusion in our minds. For now I still feel like he is scum and I feel like his mind set is that of scums.

He accused you of budding?

I need to read back, i don't remember seeing that

@ness here is the post.. In which he accused me of budding with drixx and usted.

1. Your scumdar must be picking up what your dishing out. I could probably ask you the same question

..

2.There were three votes against you why did you pick me?

Before all of my other post you picked me..Like I have said before I'm newbie to all of this so I vote how I thought I was suppose to vote by picking someone. I didn't really have a reason other then your name just popped out to me.

3.I figured once we got our conversation going my vote would change as more facts came to light but instead 3.5. I'm getting hounded by you because I had voted for you and didn't change my vote.

If you haven't notice I have unvoted but it seems like you can let it go.

4. Like your trying to distract others from you or trying to make me look bad because I'm new. 5. Am I just an easy target?

(Bolded and numbered to make responding easier)
1. What does this even mean? Ask me what question?

2. I didn't vote you because you voted for me. I already explained why I voted for you.

3. Implies your vote wouldn't change merely because I'm voting for you/hounding you. This is scummy. The term for it is OMGUS which stands for "oh my gosh you suck" and is scummy because here you somewhat threaten to vote me again if I don't stop voting/hounding you to get stop voting you.

3.5 I have already explained why I voted you and it has little to do with the fact that you're voting me.

- You sheep drixx (follow his vote with no reasoning of your own)
- You ask usted for reasoning behind a vote he already provided without providing reasoning of your own
- You say you follow drixx to make people think you're town
- You get incredibly defensive instead of going aggressive which shows you care more about staying alive than you do about finding scum
- You call yourself an easy target (defensive)
- You repeatedly claim newb (defensive)
- You threaten to vote me because I am voting you
-

You buddy drixx and usted

4. Me pushing you attracts attention to me, not pushing it away.

5. Ew. This, too, pings scumdar

[Kahlan]

Alright, this is going to be a few posts, because I have a lot of thoughts.

First off, some smaller, one-off thoughts...

Ok. What do you think of kahlan and that whole interaction?

....
Her and Drixx: they don't seem like a scum team because she probably would have ask her questions in mafia PT.

This is actually a very dangerous assumption, if she (Kahlan) is scum she SHOULD be asking all her questions in this thread to make sure that she looks like a newb so that any potential slips would be viewed as potential newb tells and not scum tells

.

I feel Newbieinmafia had very valid point especially for a newbie game. I think workdawg gives a scummy response. First off this is a newbie game is it not? isn't the point to ask questions to get familiar with the game? and what newbie or I should say a newbie with little to no experience in this game would even think of posting questions in the thread like how workdawg has stated would be what he think he is in the mind set of a scum. He is basically set this 'Dangerous Assumption' up to hurt the town because how are we ever going to be safe to ask questions if we are accused of being scum when we ask questions. This statement just rubs me the wrong way. It is why for now I VOTE: workdawg

@Kahlan - even though I said scum probably wouldn't want to stand out much, it's pretty weak reasoning, which is why I attribute it to gut feeling.
also, I think you are misunderstanding workdawg's post. and his sig is not alignment indicative~ he will have that sig whether he drew town or scum.

Okay it should be clear to everyone by now that I don't have as much as experience in this game. This is my actual first game and it's a little hard for me to keep up with everyone. I still stand by my vote for now. @newbie and @ee wither or not if he was drawn as scum his sig has to have some significance. In my mind it probably has some personal significance to him and who he is as a person because if it didn't then why keep the signature? Granted that is not a big reason to call him out as scum that is why I had my second reason. Now what I'm gathering is most of you agree with workdawg statement but I still don't. In my mind he is saying that to create doubt in the town. Now everyone will zero in on the newbies asking question sincere or not. Even if you don't plan to do it and you don't see anything wrong with what workdawg said you will probably analyze every question asked by a newbie to find a deeper hidden message that might not be there. Just how EE did to me in the beginning.. He analyzed every one of my question and then accused me of budding with Drixx and being scum because I was asking questions as a newbie that I needed answered.. Alright in this game I figured we are suppose to break down and analyze our follow townies in order to find scum but isn't scums job to create doubt and confusion in our minds. For now I still feel like he is scum and I feel like his mind set is that of scums.

I'm not saying AT ALL that asking questions is scummy. I am simply saying that given the assumption of a Kahlan/Drixx scumteam, it would make more sense for you (Kahlan) to ask your questions in the main thread and on the scum QT.

The base assumption of newbie's question was that you were scum with Drixx, the IC. So if we elaborate from there, there are really two options.

1. You ask your questions to your scum partner (in this case Drixx) in the scum QT. In this case, the town knows nothing. It makes zero difference to town.
2. You ask your questions in the game thread. Since we were specifically talking about questions that you asked to the IC (that he is obligated to answer truthfully and regardless of alignment) they can really only lead to you looking like a newbie.

Overall, my point is that in case 1. There is no affect of you posting your questions to the scum QT because as the town, we aren't going to see it so we couldn't possible get a scum tell from your questions.
In case 2, your questions are only making you look like a newb, which you are. In that case, I think generally speaking people will be a little bit more forgiving to a newb. Those questions didn't contain any actual game content, just meta stuff, so no chance of a slip. The only potential effect of posting your questions is to gain some newbie cred, which possibly comes along with more forgiveness.

Okay I can see your point @workdawg but with that assumption of being scum and asking questions to look like a newb or asking general questions because I am a newb how is one to spot the difference and if they did wouldn't it be to late for forgiveness from the other players? forgiveness doesnt save someone from getting voted for. Now I agree and understand that it would be smart for someone to play up the newb role if they were scum but saying I (Kahlan) Should be posting questions in the thread if I were scum even though I'm not scum makes it almost seem like I would be scum by asking questions as a newb intentional by you or not. however I feel at least for me I'm not really safe to ask questions as a newb. Now that could have been the case before your comment as well but it is more so now that you had made that comment. I however don't fully believe you are scum right now so i'm just going to just place you under FoS for now... UNVOTE: @workdawg

[Kahlan]

From what I've heard and my experience, scum are most often in the middle of the wagon

I agree that this is the most common scenario. However, especially early on D1, scum could have a lot to gain by starting -- or at least pushing -- a wagon on their team mate.

Assume, for instance, that Ness is partnered with EE:

- EE is already established as suspecting Drixx in 50.
- Ness establishes suspicion on both EE and Drixx in 72.
- Ness hops on EE wagon in 72. (Whether this starts the wagon or pushes it is irrelevant to the supposition.)
- Ness busses EE through until 102 where he gives it up, despite it being made clear that they both still disagree and suspect each other.

This is an incredibly safe maneuver overall, because we all know that no one is getting lynched that early in the game.

The goal would be to set up EE as an overly aggressive player. Because as I noted last time, scum would be crazy to draw so much attention to themselves, right? So EE remains in some small amount of danger, but really not any worse than any run of the mill aggressive townie might be. Meanwhile, Ness has had a chance to buss without actually getting his partner lynched. Now EE has an established persona and can accuse people indiscriminately to muddy the waters, either causing a no-lynch D1 or maybe even hitting gold and getting the town to lynch their own. At the same time, Ness can play the somewhat calmer traditional scum role, stepping in to push wagons in the middle and try to keep enough suspicion off him to make it to the endgame.

Too complicated, maybe? But everyone here (aside from Kahlan) appears to have some experience, and scum *does& get daytalk, which would help immensely.

So I'm gonna go out on a limb and...

VOTE: N e s s

I think you might be on to something @Soulmonarch. In the beginning I would have been all for the theory of EE being scum but that could have been because I was a bit upset at him. Right now I'm still on the fence about EE ...

Speaking of EE what happen to you? you has seemed to quieted down a bit in this last page. Although you came back to make a vote..and no surprise it was the dom you voted for. Now I dont want any trouble from you EE.. We already know I had a bunch of that in the beginning. I just wasn't surprised by you voting for the dom wither it was to be funny because dom was suppose to be on today or if you was really voting for him for reason I'm not sure of. I have noticed that you like to vote for the people who are voting for you. So The Dom watch out you might be next in the EE attack

[Kahlan]

Okay people my head hurts.. it might be from thinking about all this scum business or the headache I have..I'll probably blame the

thinking

headache. I'll be back on tomorrow.

[Kahlan]

@ Kahlan

Now I agree and understand that it would be smart for someone to play up the newb role if they were scum but saying I (Kahlan) Should be posting questions in the thread if I were scum even though I'm not scum makes it almost seem like I would be scum by asking questions as a newb intentional by you or not.

Okay people my head hurts.. it might be from thinking about all this scum business or the headache I have..I'll probably blame the

thinking

headache. I'll be back on tomorrow.

Ah ha! I see you have discovered the wine in front of me! Trust me: Both cups are poisoned. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If you stop asking your questions, anyone who implicated you can now say: "See? She stopped when I confronted her! I must be right!" If you continue asking the questions, they may continue to implicate you... but at least you will have your questions answered!

@soulmonarch
Haha! You hit the nail right on the head! I now must put my big person pants on and take the poison by asking my questions. Sure it can be a slow and painful death in the end but you are right.. At least I'll have my questions answered!

[Kahlan]

@Kahlan
You could say that I've voted for people who have voted for me, except you would have to forget about Ness(who voted for me but I have not voted) and newbie (who I have voted for but has not voted for me). But it is false to state that I am/have been voting people because they have been voting me. I have given a plethora of reasons for each of my targets, and, as it is still (at least in my mind) RVS (as I have not completely sorted all the players yet), my votes are following people who I have not yet sorted in some form or fashion.

And the fact that you bring up how quiet I've been as well as the fallacious argument that my votes have merely been OMGUS, but somehow fail to mention drixxs absence (which I should note that drixx has been straight up absent from the game, instead of just quiet) is a point towards this being told to you in scum private chat. I think you likely would have noticed these other things should you have come to this discovery on your own.

Who would tell you this, I am not sure, there are two people that come to mind immediately from begging response from the guy pushing the Dom wagon and distracting from the absence of the IC.

I am waiting on mr dominator, at the moment, and quite patiently, but should he be absent much longer my patience will wear thin. The RVS vote drop and go as well his continued absence makes me more and more likely to believe we have a bad case of lurker scum.

You are right I probably should have asked where Drixx is because he has been missing too and he is the IC and he still didn't answer one of my question from the beginning of the game but you must fail to see that he didn't make as many post as you had been. To me You have been the most demanding in your posting or most likely to make a immediate attack/counter post in this forum. I was just curious as to way you were slowing down or posting less. I was just pointing it out because it doesn't seem like your style thus far. You just don't seem like the waiting quietly/patiently type. Especially when you've have constantly stated you want the attention of the read to come you.

4.

Me pushing you attracts attention to me, not pushing it away.

My questions push my reads my way.

If you've got a problem with that, replace out or get over it. You can't have a solid flow of questions and thoughts that lead somewhere if you don't have somewhere to start and it's really foolish to just progressively push one person all game long.

Quote Tags Fixed. ~.Zar

[Kahlan]

@workdawg sorry about the mess up. I'm trying to do type this all out on my phone. It's a bit harder than I thought it would be... Here is the fixed post.

@Kahlan
You could say that I've voted for people who have voted for me, except you would have to forget about Ness(who voted for me but I have not voted) and newbie (who I have voted for but has not voted for me). But it is false to state that I am/have been voting people because they have been voting me. I have given a plethora of reasons for each of my targets, and, as it is still (at least in my mind) RVS (as I have not completely sorted all the players yet), my votes are following people who I have not yet sorted in some form or fashion.

And the fact that you bring up how quiet I've been as well as the fallacious argument that my votes have merely been OMGUS, but somehow fail to mention drixxs absence (which I should note that drixx has been straight up absent from the game, instead of just quiet) is a point towards this being told to you in scum private chat. I think you likely would have noticed these other things should you have come to this discovery on your own.

Who would tell you this, I am not sure, there are two people that come to mind immediately from begging response from the guy pushing the Dom wagon and distracting from the absence of the IC.

I am waiting on mr dominator, at the moment, and quite patiently, but should he be absent much longer my patience will wear thin. The RVS vote drop and go as well his continued absence makes me more and more likely to believe we have a bad case of lurker scum.

You are right I probably should have asked where Drixx is because he has been missing too and he is the IC and he still didn't answer one of my question from the beginning of the game but you must fail to see that he didn't make as many post as you had been. To me You have been the most demanding in your posting or most likely to make a immediate attack/counter post in this forum. I was just curious as to way you were slowing down or posting less. I was just pointing it out because it doesn't seem like your style thus far. You just don't seem like the waiting quietly/patiently type. Especially when you've have constantly stated you want the attention of the read to come you.

4.

Me pushing you attracts attention to me, not pushing it away.

My questions push my reads my way.

If you've got a problem with that, replace out or get over it. You can't have a solid flow of questions and thoughts that lead somewhere if you don't have somewhere to start and it's really foolish to just progressively push one person all game long.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

[Kahlan]

Hey sorry all I just looked at my last post again and I didn't post it very well. I'll try and fix it tomorrow. Happy New Year!

~~~. I think I've untangled the quote tags. ~.Zar

[Kahlan]

Hey sorry all I just looked at my last post again and I didn't post it very well. I'll try and fix it tomorrow. Happy New Year!

~~~. I think I've untangled the quote tags. ~.Zar

Thanks @Zar for fixing my post.

[Kahlan]

Alright. We're about a week into the game, and I think there's enough content out here to begin discussing reads. So I went back and reread the thread, and here's what I've got:

Usted: interesting. I liked his first post and I thought his vote showed a certain fear that I have often felt- a reservation that causes one towards being biased towards reading another player as scum- wd s signature states that he has not yet lost as scum and tbh this intimidated me a bit as well. So I gave him a quick town read at the start. However his tone suddenly changed and I don't see a fear or heightened awareness of work dawgs posts that I get when reading them, so this makes me cautious of usted. At the same time, he does seem to have his head screwed on properly for the most part and I do like how he seems to be trying to figure the game out. He will be a bit harder to read. Null town.

Newbie seems quite intelligent and invested in a way. I like her caution, I don't necessarily agree with what she says all the time, but she shares opinions and I liked her response to my vote on her. Town.

Soul seems not afraid of disagreements and seems like they want the truth more than they are afraid of being lynched. I like they're posts. I would not lynch soul today if my life depended on it, unless they do something really scummy.

Work dash hasn't posted too much but I like a lot of what they have posted. For the most part. Something felt indescribably off about their first post, but their frustration with kahlan seemed genuine and I don't think they would be scum with k if they were scum. Null.

Ness is maybe town. I'm not sure. He seems kinda confused and lost. He frequently changes his mind and jumps and flips like crazy. Some of his stuff is scummy, but I'm going to hold off on pushing him until I get confirmation he feels solid in his play. NULL. Hard null. Maybe scum null. I'm not sure.

Drixx is nasty. A lot of nope there. But he might being IC things. I still don't understand his first post all the way or really feel like I understand what he's saying at all so I'll stay off for now. I do have to say I don't like that he seems to be withholding information, but again, he seems to be doing things I straight up don't understand.

The Dom is also nasty. A huge amount of nope there. Not interested in sharing it appears. Lurks quite a bit. I would totally lynch this today if they don't show up.

Kahlan. Ew. Still probably scum, IMO. Seriously, look at these two posts

Spoiler:

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

@usted I think you have some good points. Although dominator said in his first post v/la ( which I think mean vacation/ limited access?) I would say that's why he hasn't been posting? Then again why come in and just vote and not take part in more post? Maybe your on to something Usted. Maybe dominator is staying quiet so we will fight against each other

Usted asks her a question he wants answered that, as he pointed out, I had asked several times, and instead of answering, she responds by deflecting onto Dom.

On top of constantly and conveniently misunderstanding almost everything (like framing wd for saying we shouldn't give town cred for asking newbie questions), she is far too often reminding us of her status as a new player. Instead of playing the game and looking for reads she attacks those who attack her and backs off when they back off. OMGUS at its finest.

VOTE: Kahlan

Questions/requests:
Ness- reread thread and share thoughts, please. Make sure you're sure if the thoughts you share before you share them.

Drixx I honestly don't know what you're doing, but if you could share thoughts atm, that would be cool.

Dom - participate pls. Reads would be nice. Or claim scum. That works too.

Usted/newbie/soul/work dawg - reads lists. We've got a week left I think or something close. It would be good to start gettting on the same page I think.

First off EE lets me clear the air up little here. I in fact did answer usted's question. The second post to which you thought was my answer to the first post was in fact a answer to another post Usted had made. If you were to look a little further then you would see my answer which was this post (post listed below)

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

Well the honest truth is I was in the process of typing out EEs name to vote when Drixx voted before me. I'm very slow at typing ( in the process of practicing ) so I just reworded my vote because I thought that was how I was suppose to do in order to show I'm part of the town and who I wanted to vote for was just the same as Drixx. I was asking questions because I though that is what we were suppose to do to wager on if we are voting right or if votes need to be changed. I honestly didn't realize you have already put a reason to your vote. That is why I asked the question. And still voted for who I was using as my RVS vote.

My thoughts so far...

EE- I feel that either EE is scum and is real good at deceiving people or he is just a borderline townie who appears to be scummy sometimes. I say this because he likes to "push reads his way." I'm not very sure what that means exactly but he has said it at least three times now and to me it doesn't sound like a good thing. He also seems to be playing a misunderstanding/misinterpreting card a few times. It makes me feel like because he is wrong and someone calls him out on it, he just has to play it off as a misunderstanding/misinterpreted and then try to reword the post. It seems he gets a bit defensive when that happens as well. He also seems to be very impatient and not very forgiving sometimes. May be or may not be scum but I'm not voting for him now.

Soulmonarch- townie reads for me so far. I actual enjoy reading his post. They are easy to understand and very well explained (unlike my post..lol)

Drixx- Still trying to figure out. possible light scum based on some of his post but my gut is telling me other wise for now.

Workdawg- I have voted for Workdawg before and even though I am not currently voting for him I still feel like he has a thing or two that doesn't feel right to me but he does not seem as scummy as a few others I feel who are the true scum thus far.

Usted- Im a bit confused on Usted. why point out the vote count on EE.. Stating they are all from RVS. why should that matter? Do votes have to constantly change?

Newbie- most of her reads seem to be townie. I believe though there are a few things that are standing out to me In her last post and she says something about Ness I find interesting..

Even though I started it, I also found Ness wagon a bit weird.

Read-list: (this is where I am at right now- most of the stuff are what I have talked about before; would probably need to reread when I have time)

Ness

:

newbtown or scum. Despite my vote, I am actually leaning toward newbtown, which is why I am also not that comfortable about Ness wagon. His claim and defense seems like something newbtown would do. His thought process seemed like how I played my first game

.

EE

: I like his read list and he's been pretty consistent.

Work

: I like that he points out some of the things I find iffy but wasn't sure what it was. Also he explained about my ness vote better than I do.

Drixx

: I don't like that he is not sharing much of his thoughts, so I can't really read him.

Kahlan

: I actually don't know how to read her.

Usted

: I like his beginning posts (his reason for RVS for me is null though), but his vote on drixx is a bit strange, considering he hadn't interact with him. And I don't like his Drixx/Ness scum team explanation.

Soul

: His posts are interesting but there is something I couldn't put my finger on. It's possible that I just need to get use to newer people because I tend to do that.

Dominator

: Its explanation about RVS isn't satisfying but I am not ready for his lynch yet.

I haven't decided on who I want to lynch atm though.

She states that she feels like ness is newbtown because of how he is playing but there is a post by ness that says other wise. ..

Alright, so i'm not a stranger to mafia. I've played atleast 5 games at this point

, so here we go.

Right now i'm seeing 3 possibilitys.

1)Drixx is scum: From that post above, its a bit scummy...but i'm not one to make conclusions usually. He's been posting well so far, and i'm starting to think he's town. Null town.

2)Eagle is scum: seems to be the prime target right now, but yes, i will agree that this is scummy-

Yes. And that was noted. It has also been noted that you have nothing to say as far as actual reads are concerned, as I stated before. I do not see how pushing you to share your thoughts on the current game state is scummy, but now that you have clearly stated you have no intention in sharing those things and contributing to the thread except to discourage people from interacting with your IIoA (information over analysis) I have a scum read on you as well...

Sure 5 games may not be enough to be completely experienced In a game but it's more experience than others. So in my mind either newbie really is reading ness post as a newbtown or ness is really good at playing up the newbtown which make me think of the newb questions conversation that I had with workdawg. May be ness is playing a newbtown/thinking like a newb in order to hid his scummy title?

That brings me to Ness- I think it's safe to say now that the wheels are turning more about my ness theory I'm going to

FoS Ness

I actually already was feeling a little scum read off of him but it's slowly growing more now.

Dominator- I don't think he is truly invested in this game or he is lurking scum and he doesnt feel like he needs to make an effort because he has no votes against him?

Extrapolating Mafia
I feel it is definitely you and maybe Kahlan idk I've inly read half the thread.

I dont feel that someone who isnt truly invested and has only read half the forum is fit to really say he is town.It feels pretty scummy to me. I for now VOTE: The Dominator

[Kahlan]

Kahlan I swear. Your posts really get under my skin.
*takes deep breath*
How do you want me to push my reads? Your way? That's hard. It doesn't make sense for me to push reads the way you push them. No. I push reads the way I push them because I can get reads from people when I do that. Everyone pushes reads in the way they push reads, and not the way anyone else pushes their reads. I don't know how or why you don't understand this, it seems like such a simple concept to me.

Now. Let's also think about what you said about Usted. Hmmm. Why would a vote NOT MATTER much at all if it was random and without true reason? Can you think of anything? I'm ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS.

I'm sorry. I'm done being a dick. It just baffles me how you can completely not understand or misrepresent things that seem so simple. You're going to give me a massive headache by the time this game is over, but I hope you're not scum, because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you just don't understand any of these things you keep bringing up.

VOTE: the Dom

PEdit: oh please don't encourage this. She's going to destroy us all with all the misrepresenting she's doing.

Okay EE I'm sorry my post bother you so. We are two different people and read things differently. Simple to you may not be so simple to me. Now I was confused by Usted statement because sure the votes started at RVS but that doesn't mean they are still considered RVS votes. Just because some people don't jump between votes or change to an unvote doesn't make their votes any less. Maybe they gained reasons for their votes along the way and are serious in the vote that is why in my eyes their votes don't change. Now I'm not trying to say this to defend anyone that is just where my thought process went when I saw Usted post. Could I have misunderstood, sure but I don't think most of the vote really can still be RVS this deep into the day.. The only one you can really say that about is The Dom. He voted for you, EE, without real reason and has barely posted since. Everyone else by now has had some reasons for their votes.

On another note...

Oh ffs, please don't hammer before he actually posts something.

@workdawg this make me curious. Why ask us not to hammer ness but yet you don't unvote for him? Newbie came in a unvoted. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[Kahlan]

Oh ffs, please don't hammer before he actually posts something.

@workdawg this make me curious. Why ask us not to hammer ness but yet you don't unvote for him? Newbie came in a unvoted. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Well, I'm always weary of a wagon getting to L-1 early on in newbie games. Especially after my last game where town lynched someone that I felt was obviously a newbie, not necessarily scum, and they did it very early in the day. I guess it was sort of a knee-jerk reaction based on that. I wanted to make very sure everyone knew he was at L-1.

As for why I wouldn't unvote, simply because I still think he's scummy. I'm not afraid of him being at L-1, I'm just afraid of someone accidentally hammering him before he has a chance to explain himself.

He still could have gotten hammered if it wasn't for newbies unvote..You still could have unvoted for him to give him a chance to explain even if you think he is scum. It's not like you can't revote for him again after he explained if then you still thought he was scum. I just thought it was interesting that you aren't afraid of him being at L-1 yet you wouldn't unvote him in order to hear his side although you wanted to hear it or wanted him to have a chance to explain. To me it looked like you expect someone else to either unvote to save ness or someone else to drive the nail into him. As long as the blame wasn't coming towards you, you'd be safe. I guess my head has some crazy thoughts but that's where my mind goes.

[Kahlan]

If I'm not afraid of him being at L-1, why would I unvote?

Being at L-1 is MUCH different than being at even L-2 and it's a unique amount of pressure to be under. If every time a player gets to L-1 someone else unvotes, then it doesn't mean anything.

You'd unvote because you said you were afraid of him getting hammered or getting accidentally lynched before he can explain himself but I can also see that if your not afraid of him actually getting lynched then your right there is no real need for an unvote. It was just that first initial post that seemed a bit iffy to me.

[Kahlan]

Why not?

There are a few I wouldn't mind lynching but I haven't narrowed it down.

What I'm asking is why not me?

Looks like The Dom wants to be lynched.. @TheDom Guilty of being scum or just tried of playing the game? I'll keep my vote on him for now.

[Kahlan]

Why not?

There are a few I wouldn't mind lynching but I haven't narrowed it down.

What I'm asking is why not me?

Looks like The Dom wants to be lynched.. @TheDom Guilty of being scum or just tried of playing the game? I'll keep my vote on him for now.

*sigh*

That's the rub: He apparently plays pretty much all his games like this -- at least all the ones I looked at -- so it isn't much of a tell either way.

The odds say he only has about a 20% chance of drawing a scum roll. So even though he's more likely to be town, we are forced to confront the fact that he may be so useless that *not* lynching him will actually lose us the game due to his bad play. (Scum certainly won't nightkill someone like that.) Of course, there is the proportionally smaller chance that he really

is

scum -- which would only make allowing him to live even more galling.

Hence, killing him is a "policy lynch", because in many ways we had no other option. In the worst case, scum stays at full strength and we start D2 nothing to discuss but the choice of nightkill -- but at least it rids us of a useless player who is essentially sabotaging the game for us. At the absolute best, he flips scum and we feel some measure of satisfaction -- not a terribly likely circumstance and the only information we gain from it is the knowledge that the other scum never had much of a partner in the first place. (To be honest, I think that actually makes them much harder to spot.)

I consider what he's doing as tantamount to MafiaScum trolling, but to my knowledge there is no rule against it.

That is so lame. Why play the game then? What's the point in playing if you only read half the post and only reply with one or two lines at most. He should be policy lynched for bring the town down if he is town. Although if he isn't town and turns out to be scum that would be good for us. I see that it would be hard to determine if he is scum or not base on his other games but I haven't looked that those.

@the dom why even play a game that you don't seem invested in? Not very fun in my mind. If you are town, why are you so willing to get lynched?

[Kahlan]

Soulmarch and Kahlan just jumped up the scum list with blatant opportunism on display.

EE I wasnt trying to make my post seem scummy or anything. I was actually asking honestly. I want to know why someone would play the game like the way the Dom is playing. He barely posts. Why come on the game if you aren't activity making post or at least giving more tribute to the game. It really makes it hard for people to read him.. Town or not it makes it harder to play the game if we can't read him. I know people aren't fans of policy lynching and I wasn't trying to suggest that we have to do it. I was just stating if he is town shouldn't he want to help us more and if he doesn't want to help us then maybe he shouldn't be playing.

[Kahlan]

Lol I'm sorry I meant Drixx ^^ not EE in my post above.

[Kahlan]

Spoiler:

Why not?

There are a few I wouldn't mind lynching but I haven't narrowed it down.

What I'm asking is why not me?

Looks like The Dom wants to be lynched.. @TheDom Guilty of being scum or just tried of playing the game? I'll keep my vote on him for now.

*sigh*

That's the rub: He apparently plays pretty much all his games like this -- at least all the ones I looked at -- so it isn't much of a tell either way.

The odds say he only has about a 20% chance of drawing a scum roll. So even though he's more likely to be town, we are forced to confront the fact that he may be so useless that *not* lynching him will actually lose us the game due to his bad play. (Scum certainly won't nightkill someone like that.) Of course, there is the proportionally smaller chance that he really

is

scum -- which would only make allowing him to live even more galling.

Hence, killing him is a "policy lynch", because in many ways we had no other option. In the worst case, scum stays at full strength and we start D2 nothing to discuss but the choice of nightkill -- but at least it rids us of a useless player who is essentially sabotaging the game for us. At the absolute best, he flips scum and we feel some measure of satisfaction -- not a terribly likely circumstance and the only information we gain from it is the knowledge that the other scum never had much of a partner in the first place. (To be honest, I think that actually makes them much harder to spot.)

I consider what he's doing as tantamount to MafiaScum trolling, but to my knowledge there is no rule against it.

That is so lame. Why play the game then? What's the point in playing if you only read half the post and only reply with one or two lines at most. He should be policy lynched for bring the town down if he is town. Although if he isn't town and turns out to be scum that would be good for us. I see that it would be hard to determine if he is scum or not base on his other games but I haven't looked that those.

@the dom why even play a game that you don't seem invested in? Not very fun in my mind. If you are town, why are you so willing to get lynched?

Okay so I re-read my post. I did forget a maybe in there. I wasn't trying to seem like scum. I was merely curious as to way someone would play the way he is/was playing. I may have worded it wrong but at the time in my head it made since. In the rules at the beginning we are told to treat this game as a commitment and to have fun. Now with how the Dom has been posting only a few words or lines and no reads. It seemed to me that he is not treating this much like a somewhat commitment and in my eyes it doesn't look like a very fun way to play. Which in return doesn't help our town. Now I did read about policy lynching on the mafia wiki and though I don't completely understand it though in my mind it could help the game flowing especially when someone isn't helping the town. I'm not sure on why everyone seems to hate it so much. Can someone please dumb it down for me and explain why policy lynching isn't a good thing to do at the beginning of the game?

@usted I wasn't trying to ignore the Dom RVS. I was a little more than distracted with arguing and fighting with EE. You are right in the fact the I should have said something about his vote then question him in someway but I didn't probably cause I didn't know what to ask or what to do. At the beginning I was posting slower and was waiting for reply from each post I wrote. I now realize that was probably stupid of me but that was then now I try my best to collaborate reads and participate.

So it looks like the Dom might possibly be replace.wither or not that is going happens I feel like I need to make a new reads list but it will have to wait until later though. Too late and I'm very tired.
As for now I'll UNVOTE: thedom [\unvote] and see what happens tomorrow. I'll also try my best to come up with some actual questions in order to scum hunt. I now see that is one of my mistakes in playing this game I'm not analyzing and questioning lies I probab should be.

Spoiler Tag fixed. ~~~.Zar

[Kahlan]

@zar I'm not sure why my font changed colors on me. I'm not sure what color everyone else see but it's Orange on my black background. :/

[Kahlan]

UNVOTE: the Dom

[Kahlan]

Yeah I'm quiet because there isn't much to say. I think Ness should post his catch up and reads and stuff soon. I think the fact that he isn't is scummy to me.

Drixx is aggressively quiet. I don't like his gambit claim and disappearance, all I asked for was a game link so I could meta his gambit and see what he was doing if he was really gambitting. It seemed like an excuse for trying to pull the wool over on newer players.

And the dom should straight up replace out.

I think maybe we need to lynch, too. I've seen it noted before (somewhere on the wiki I can't find it right now, maybe a player page?) That if a wagon stalls or something like that then it's probably on scum and they're getting people to get nervous and think about what their doing or something so the wagon gets stale and falls apart. This makes me think we're sitting on a scum wagon right now.

I know I still need to post my reads but I ran out of time yesterday and wasn't able to get on. I also will be V/LA most of the day today but I had to get on to point what EE had said. I think EE is right we need to lynch but By saying we need to lynch and having the theory that we are sitting on a scum wagon it makes it seem like if we haven't voted then we are scum. Now I being this up because EE says we need to lynch and yes this is true but if I or anyone else were to votes for ness now because we think he is scum but he turns out to be town then that last player might look like scum right? But also if we just sit here and not vote we still look like scum as EE is also suggested. Now I'm not saying I don't think ness isn't scum and I had put him under FoS many of times but if I vote to lynch him and he flips to be town (not the best playing town but town none the less) then won't I come out looking like scum? That is actually a question that I'd love answered. I would like to know people thoughts on the this? I would be willing to help our town but I don't want to get blamed for it all if he turns out to be town. What is the right thing for me to do here? I want to give the new player who has replaced the Dom ( thankgoodness) a chance to catch up before we go through with the lynching as well. @huntress Hey! I'd love to hear your thoughts on everything so far.

@zar I will be V/LA for the whole day today but will be back on tomorrow.

[Kahlan]

Okay all I'm going to VOTE: Ness and here is why..

1. Excuses. okay that doesn't sound like a valid reason right? Trust me I understand a busy life (mother of three right here folks talk about busy) and schedule and not finding a lot of time to post but Ness seems to take it a step further with the excuses. He has said he plays on/in another site/game and is really busy with that but why not make a little more time for this game too? or just give everyone what they had asked for early on? People have been asking for his reads for a while and he just kept saying i'm working on it or it will be up soon made..

Workdawg put it into this post all the times he promised he would post..

Spoiler:

@Ness

- You said that you'd post content in posts 251, 255, 267, 270, and 293. Yet the only content you posted was a response to my post 178, which I specifically asked for twice. Since this wagon formed, you've posted pretty much nothing. You've flailed around giving us nothing to work with. A bunch of OMGUS and whining about how we are wrong. If you don't want to be lynched, then you have to actually provide some content for us to read that will convince us that you're town.

Ness even said this...

I'm writing right now.

It took him almost a week to finally write/finish his reads and even then his findings for some of them seemed to be based only on the most recent posts that were putting him at L-1 and having pushed him closer to being lynched. now through out this game everyone has been telling me that you need to play like you mean it and do what you feel is right. I feel that ness is on the defense too much and instead of trying to find scum he is just pointing out how he is being mislynched. Granted if I was in his shoe I could possibly do the same thing but as so many on here explained that as town we are trying to find scum and to do so some may get mislynched and in my eyes if you feel like you are being mislynched and no way to stop it maybe it should be turned it into a opportunity. Ask as many questions as you can before you die, help town win. Sure its good to explain your actions in order to save yourself and being on the defense is understandable but overly defensive make it seem like we might be on the right trail.
2. seems to talk himself into something a few times but doesnt know how to defend himself or to correct himself. He says stuff like this in a post a time or two...

*sighs*

No way to defend myself right now because i have no idea how to.

3. I wasn't a fan of how he entered the game. I have explained this before I felt he started to pick on EE because he was an easy target. ( Post #156 ) EE already had votes stacked against him and was close to a L-1. He was a on the immediate attack. Now what gets me is that he was attacking EE so much and seemed to believe his vote to be right because EE in his eyes was scum but then a few post later its like he gives up his fight with him..wither it be because he knew it wouldn't amount to anything or was truly wasn't sure about EE anymore but a few post of Ness stood out as odd to me...

Spoiler:

That's me not admitting I misinterpreted him. That's me saying I worded it in a way that was apparently confusing the first time because everyone was misinterpreting me.

but you're right. If you are on the same page as me as you claim and you read all of that correctly, then you're either stupid or intentionally misrepresenting me. However. Since it is very apparent that you aren't understanding a word I write, I'm going to excuse your ignorance and move on with my life.

PEdit: playstyle talk was at Ness, newbie

@kahlan I push reads my way because that's how I know to push reads.

Pedit 2. My posts are treating you like a complete idiot to mafia because you're completely misinterpreting almost every word I say and then insisting that you understand completely when you say we're on the same page.

And ironic, isn't it, that you get mad at me because you think I talk to you like an idiot, yet you speak to me sarcastically. Yes. I know what pushing is. I have done the most of it since the game started out of any one player. Again the irony strikes, because one reason you are pushing me seems to be because I am pushing my reads.

Pedit 3. So... In other words I've called two out of the four people who have put their vote on me scum, and one person who hasn't? I'm sorry, where's the pattern here? And weren't we just talking about how I was pushing reads and my questions don't lead anywhere? So how am I asking questions if I'm only calling people who vote me scum?

*sighs*

yeah, neither of us are getting anywhere with this constant argueing. I'm just going to put you as FoS.

But, i like these responses. I'm just going to move on from you for now.

VOTE: Unvote

Spoiler:

EE lets just settle for a truce. All we're doing is making non contributive posts with our exchanges.

After all that fighting he just wants to stop and then unvotes? why fight for a good portion of the time and then basically give up. Then not to much later he votes for Drixx. It didnt sit well with me how fast he gave up the fight with EE in order to get Drixx who was being put on trial for scum at the moment by EE and a few others. a little bandwagon could have been happening. maybe Ness saw that his fight with EE wasn't going anywhere but it was easier to give up the fight and fight with EE against Drixx in order to take down a townie? whatever the case may be it didn't sit well with me how he came into the game.

4 How he almost seemed to try and play like a newbie player sometimes but clearly has more experience then he was leading some to believe.
Newbie says this post about ness..

Spoiler:

Even though I started it, I also found Ness wagon a bit weird.

Read-list: (this is where I am at right now- most of the stuff are what I have talked about before; would probably need to reread when I have time)

Ness

: newbtown or scum. Despite my vote, I am actually leaning toward newbtown, which is why I am also not that comfortable about Ness wagon. His claim and defense seems like something newbtown would do. His thought process seemed like how I played my first game.

Which got me to thinking of this post by ness...

Alright, so i'm not a stranger to mafia. I've played atleast 5 games at this point, so here we go.

Right now i'm seeing 3 possibilitys.

1)Drixx is scum: From that post above, its a bit scummy...but i'm not one to make conclusions usually. He's been posting well so far, and i'm starting to think he's town. Null town.

2)Eagle is scum: seems to be the prime target right now, but yes, i will agree that this is scummy-

Yes. And that was noted. It has also been noted that you have nothing to say as far as actual reads are concerned, as I stated before. I do not see how pushing you to share your thoughts on the current game state is scummy, but now that you have clearly stated you have no intention in sharing those things and contributing to the thread except to discourage people from interacting with your IIoA (information over analysis) I have a scum read on you as well.

FoS Drixx

I would still like you to interact with the thread and share your thoughts instead of just chatting about theory and how you will help us with it, however. The other one might not be scum and interactions help me find your scum buddy.

lol, eagle is basically agent hydra right now. If i had to choose anyone in the thread right now, its him. But yeah, this post is him putting words inside drixx's mouth. So, i'm going to cast my vote on him for the time being.

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

he also was complaining that he was busy...

Ness, please address all the questions or concerns that people asked of you. Even if you are lynched, they may help us in some way. he seems to just want to help himself vs helping the town.

The latter I understand. however, I think I could see a Dom/Ness scum team and so I don't feel too bad about ending today now, particularly because I feel like a lot of last minute lynches happen and it ends up being town because we haven't had time to talk it through and things, so I want to avoid that as much as possible.

Early lynches I have seen also happen to be town, so...? also if it's a last minute lynch, we have had more time to talk because it's not ended early..? I am not understanding what you are trying to say here. And I am not thinking of putting it at last minute. I don't mind if we end it a few days early but not when we have more than a week left now.

I will do Newbie,

I've been busy with a lot of stuff recently. Including hosting my own mafia game

.

needless to say he has experience and must have known that making excuses for not posting his reads and making promises to post them but never doing it would result in a lynching after not responding to all the . Now that is reads are up they almost seem like a pity party vs an actual read in order to find scum. He was pointing out the L-1 newbie placed on him and he was also taking shots at soul and workdawg.

I'm sure I can probably give you another one or two reason but I feel what I have stated above is a few good reasons i think ness is scum. I believe my vote puts ness at

L-1

again. my other reads will be up tomorrow sometime. I was going to post them in this post but I must go to bed now. I hope this post show somewhat the things im learning. Also thanks all for the great advice earlier i'll try from now on to just play and not be afraid.

[Kahlan]

** sorry on my post above did a miss quote for workdawg ^^ i told you i should be in bed..lol if you want all the post number that ness made promises to post or that he would have his post up soon I can post them for you tomorrow. just let me know!

[Kahlan]

** sorry on my post above did a miss quote for workdawg ^^ i told you i should be in bed..lol if you want all the post number that ness made promises to post or that he would have his post up soon I can post them for you tomorrow. just let me know!

Lol okay I'm sorry yet again I just read the post again and I believe most of the posts in workdawg post has the information I was intending. I knew I probably shouldn't have posted so late last night.

[Kahlan]

@Kahlan - Please be sure to give a warning when you put a player at L-1. If you do that and do not give a warning, there's a very strong probability (on this site) that you will be viewed as highly scummy for doing so.

We don't have a great deal of time left, and I don't think we have time for me to try and push Usted, so I'm going to give

intent to hammer

.

@drixx I thought I did say he was at L-1.. Towards the end of my post in the last paragraph I said I believe that puts ness at L-1 again. Was that the wrong way to state it?

[Kahlan]

@Kahlan - Please be sure to give a warning when you put a player at L-1. If you do that and do not give a warning, there's a very strong probability (on this site) that you will be viewed as highly scummy for doing so.

We don't have a great deal of time left, and I don't think we have time for me to try and push Usted, so I'm going to give

intent to hammer

.

@drixx I thought I did say he was at L-1.. Towards the end of my post in the last paragraph I said I believe that puts ness at L-1 again. Was that the wrong way to state it?

You want it to be clear. You hid it away and only bolded the L-1 part, buried inside a paragraph.

@all - You don't question people when they say that real life things have kept them from posting. The social contract in mafia is that scum won't use or make up RL circumstances to try and protect their position or advance themselves, and correspondingly nobody suggests or outright says someone is using their RL situation for gain in the game, or suggest or outright accuse someone of making up things about their real life.

Okay gotcha I'll make sure I'm more clear next time I posted. I didn't know it was hidden.

[Kahlan]

Hey @zar I just wanted to drop in and say I'm still here. I was super busy today and now I'm really sleepy and need to take care of my baby. So I will just read and make a post tomorrow!

[Kahlan]

First I want to say I always enjoy soulmonarch post. It was a great one. The one "who killed Drixx?" Theories that stood out to me the most was this one..

-----

"Who killed Drixx?"

(Disclaimer: All are hypothetical situations. Maybe not all of them are particularly plausible, but each is presented as if it is a statement of fact. Debunk, confirm, add to, or replace stories as you small
-

EE wanted Drixx dead, because they had a tiff earlier in the game and Drixx outright called him as scum in 51. What's more, Drixx caught him muddying the waters in 292. It was only a matter of time before Drixx circled back around to try and rally the town against him. EE did it, in the study, with the candlestick!

-----

Now for sometime I have been having this feeling that there isn't something right about EE to me he seems a little scumish. He has always seemed to have wanted Drixx gone for Most of day 1. So souls theory seems plausible to me that EE could be scum and killed Drixx but that seems a little to easy. So then I got to thinking if scum really wanted to trick us they could be using EE as a cover. It's also plausible that scum whomever they may be at this point could have read all of EE post and saw that he had a few run ins with Drixx and to scum that could be the perfect set up. So what I'm thinking is scum killed Drixx in order to make the person who seemed to be the most vocal with Drixx turns out to be looking like scum.. Okay so I can be completely wrong on both accounts but maybe just maybe I've got something here? Thoughts? Do you think something like a cover would benefit scum or is my ramblings just nonsense ? I'm not sure quiet yet who I will vote for but if my cover theory doesn't pan out I might be reevaluating on EE.

[Kahlan]

What you are describing is called WIFOM.

Oh my bad I didn't know what that meant and i guess I didn't really read/understand the definition when I tried to read it earlier thanks for clairfying that for me.

[Kahlan]

Okay So for the past couple of days I have been trying to come up with something to post and I will try my best to post my actual thoughts today. I also have been trying to think of questions to ask but my mind keeps coming up blank and there are so many smooth talkers in here that it's a little hard for me to find scum. I'm going to go back a read again. I'll be back. (Sorry it's taking me longer than I would like to post. Let's just blame my mom brain. Once you have kids your brain is never the same...lol )

[Kahlan]

So I've been thinking about this for a bit, even considered doing it day 1.

Now I think I've come up with a soft claim that allows our other tpr to remain hidden, but allows for them to better understand the setup without giving the same luxury to scum. And imo it also clears my name. You'll have to trust me a bit here. The reason I'm being sketchy about this is because if I just outright claim then scum will have a better understanding of why tprs they are against.

I'm a tpr and my role rests in the left two columns.

What the hell... I've literally spent the past two hours trying to figure out how this helps town. I can't figure it out. The other PR will know you are telling the truth (assuming that is the case), but they can't verify that without giving up that they are also a PR. So you've essentially just bought yourself one secret ally out of the six of us. That ally can't even help you without doing even more damage to the town.

1. This seems pretty self serving to me, but 2. I guess I can't waste more time on you because of the chance it might be true.

VOTE: UNVOTE

Okay had to post this real fast before my reads. The bold part. 1. I actually kind of agree with that statement. 2. So I got to thinking that maybe workdawg knows that usted is telling the truth in some way but phrasing it a way as to not draw attention to it. Then he also unvoted which also make me think that he knows in that usted is telling the truth. Now with that said he could either be the other TPR or he can be scum. Those would be the only two ways of knowing right? Now workdawg is one of the smooth talkers I mentioned earlier. At times I feel he might be scum and at other times I feel he has some really good points. So for now I'm going to

FoS workdawg

[Kahlan]

Sorry @zar I have been reading the post just didn't have time to reply to them yet. I'll try and get a few of my thoughts up tonight. For some reason I thought I had posted yesterday but I think I forgot to submit it. Sorry again!

[Kahlan]

That's not true. Mafia now knows the exact setup and can narrow down the other PR (thus higher chance of hitting the other PR).

Noted earlier:

Everyone here (should have) already known that Usted was claiming to be Bulletproof. There was literally no other option. Therefore, actually stating it out loud changes nothing. Mafia knows

exactly

what they already knew before.

@soul I'm wondering why you think everyone should have already known usted was claiming bulletproof? He stated before (before he actually claimed bulletproof) that his PR was in the left two columns so with that why would we have known? There could have been other choices.

I still don't think soul is a good vote, usted. *sigh* maybe kahlan? Whoever it is plays a good scum game, I think.

I'm going to go with this for now, though:

VOTE: huntress

Not too much content out of this slot and while I liked their recent posts this is more a read on the previous slot. Maybe lurker scummish?

@EE what? You confuse me. First you say I give you a strong town read but yet I'm the first one to pop into your head when you're thinking of someone to vote for since you can't vote usted.



My reads:
Newbie and usted have always felt like townie to me.
After a few recents post workdawg is making me feel like he is town as well.
Now I don't have to much to go off of with huntress so I can't say for sure how I feel about her.
My two scum reads so fat right now are EE and Soul.

I just wanted to make a little post. I will get back on tomorrow and write more when I'm not falling asleep on my phone.

[Kahlan]

@soul I'm wondering why you think everyone should have already known usted was claiming bulletproof? He stated before (before he actually claimed bulletproof) that his PR was in the left two columns so with that why would we have known? There could have been other choices.

Explained in previous posts, but I can do it again.

Taking his original claim at face value:

- In the left two columns, the options on the matrix are JK, BP, Cop or a VT.
- Obviously he can not occupy the VT slot.
-

As Jailkeeper, the possible options for the other player are the BP

or a VT. He would not be certain there was another power player in the game.
-

As Cop, the other options are Doctor

or a VT. Same problem as above.
- As Bulletproof townie, he can guarantee that there is another PR, he just does not know for certain which.

If he is telling the truth (i.e. town), Bulletproof is the only possible option.

Okay @soul I already saw your post from before and I understand that being bulletproof makes him guaranteed to have another PR but just because he was guaranteed another PR that doesn't automatically mean he was bulletproof. what I was getting at is there was always a possibility of him having a different PR. Which brings me to the bold parts ^^ he could have been a JK or cop and there could have been a bulletproof or doctor if there is a scum roleblocker in the game. So unless you knew for a fact there isn't a scum roleblocker then there is a chance he could have been a JK or cop. What I'm trying to say unless you are scum and knew if there is or isn't a roleblocker scum role then more than likely you couldn't possibly have known for sure usted would have claimed bulletproof. which makes me curious, maybe you know something more and happen to know all the roles now?

[Kahlan]

@workdawg okay now I see the point that soul was trying to make. Usted knew for sure that there had to be another TPR so it make since that soul would be able to be narrowed down to bulletproof even before usted said something.

[Kahlan]

One thing that I will state is that I find it pretty unlikely that both scum were on that wagon, considering literally everyone was willing to lynch Ness there would be no reason for both of them to be involved. That does conveniently imply that either Usted or Huntress is scum though.

@workdawg I don't agree with this. Now knowing more than likely usted is a PR town and I'm leaning more towards a town read for huntress. I would say there could be a high chance both scum guys were on the ness wagon. Going off the two guys I'm reading as scum right now soul and EE I would say one started the train and the other one ended it. Soul had voted ness because his theory of Ness and EE scum team but what if he said EE to throw off town so we wouldn't doubt him but yet he doesn't vote for EE rather he votes for ness and his vote stays on ness the whole time. While EE bounces back and forth with his votes. Something interesting caught my eye in EE first vote against ness..

Well it seems like i'm being lynched. Well, hopefully my mislynch will help the town in some way.

You have nothing to say? O_o

Your apathy astounds me.

VOTE: Ness

That's L-1. Anyone who wants to hammer should say so before they do so Ness has a chance to claim just in case.

He votes for ness for no real reason putting ness at L-1 then later unvoted but tells ness that if he doesn't hear from him soon he will recast his vote the same. I think EE had already made his mind up that he was going to vote for ness no matter what ness came up with in a post. Granted I thought ness did do a lot of scummy things but I realize I probably should have went with my gut feeling because in my gut I didn't fully believe ness was scum even though his actions told me different. that is why I'm going off of my gut feel a bit right now because even though I have read some scummy post and some not so scummy post by EE my gut is telling me there is something off about him.

FoS EE

Anyone else feel that both scums could have been riding the ness train?

[Kahlan]

Wow @EE you sure know how to make a person feel good. I've told many times before I think differently then you just because I don't see it your way doesn't make me completely wrong. Isn't that the point of asking questions or making theories? To test them out to find the answers you are searching for? That is simply what I am trying to do the best way I know how. I have already told you plenty of times this is my first game and I wasn't lying to you. I have never in my life played a game like mafia or any sort of forum game. So I can understand why you would be so frustrated with how I think and play but when you just attack me instead of help me learn it makes it a lot harder to enjoy the game. Maybe you attack me because I'm on to you as scum or maybe not. Whatever the case may be if you are town and you know I'm town then you should help me instead of getting frustrated at me. Sometime people see things as so simple but for others it might need it to be more simplified. I'm trying my best to read things how I see them. I'm just trying to learn the game.

[Kahlan]

Anyone else feel that both scums could have been riding the ness train?

Workdawg's logic does make some sense: Since most everyone was leaning into the Ness lynch, scum would be pretty likely to just let it happen without their vote -- maybe they'd voice some non-committal support for it to seem like they were part of the mob mentality, but otherwise it would have been smartest to stay out of it. But by the same token, once it was obvious where it was going, scum could have been in on it without arousing much suspicion either. I believe everyone (see Workdawg's 402) had either already voted or declared their willingness to vote. With everyone either already "on" the wagon and the rest running alongside it just in case a seat opened up, the waters were pretty darn muddy.

In short, I think Workdawg is right in saying that it is

unlikely

that both were on the wagon. But unlikely implies that it might have still happened, so if you have theories I don't see why we shouldn't talk about them.

@Soul lets talk about it then. I feel like both scum were on the ness wagon. I think Newbie's post hit right on the nail in what I was thinking.

I think there is a higher chance that both scum are on Ness wagon. The ones who are not on it are Ness (obviously), Drixx, Usted and Huntress. Three are confirmed town (I included Usted because there has been no CC).

umm I think I will unvote for now.
UNVOTE:

We have at least three confirm towns and so far I feel that huntress is more likely town. If I am right and huntress is town that would mean both scum players were on the ness train. I have a few possible out comes on who I think the scum players might be. Here is one of my theories as I see playing out right now...

Soul/EE

Soul started the wagon on ness and EE finished it.

Soul votes for Ness playing as a Ness/EE team scenario.

Spoiler:

From what I've heard and my experience, scum are most often in the middle of the wagon

I agree that this is the most common scenario. However, especially early on D1, scum could have a lot to gain by starting -- or at least pushing -- a wagon on their team mate.

Assume, for instance, that Ness is partnered with EE:

- EE is already established as suspecting Drixx in 50.
- Ness establishes suspicion on both EE and Drixx in 72.
- Ness hops on EE wagon in 72. (Whether this starts the wagon or pushes it is irrelevant to the supposition.)
- Ness busses EE through until 102 where he gives it up, despite it being made clear that they both still disagree and suspect each other.

This is an incredibly safe maneuver overall, because we all know that no one is getting lynched that early in the game.

The goal would be to set up EE as an overly aggressive player. Because as I noted last time, scum would be crazy to draw so much attention to themselves, right? So EE remains in some small amount of danger, but really not any worse than any run of the mill aggressive townie might be. Meanwhile, Ness has had a chance to buss without actually getting his partner lynched. Now EE has an established persona and can accuse people indiscriminately to muddy the waters, either causing a no-lynch D1 or maybe even hitting gold and getting the town to lynch their own. At the same time, Ness can play the somewhat calmer traditional scum role, stepping in to push wagons in the middle and try to keep enough suspicion off him to make it to the endgame.

Too complicated, maybe? But everyone here (aside from Kahlan) appears to have some experience, and scum *does& get daytalk, which would help immensely.

So I'm gonna go out on a limb and...

VOTE: N e s s

Soul could have been trying to throw everyone off by suggesting a Ness/EE team. I feel that his statement (in bold ^^) "
I agree that this is the most common scenario. However, especially early on D1, scum could have a lot to gain by starting -- or at least pushing -- a wagon on their team mate." Makes me feel that what I say might be true. What if soul was trying to make it look like he was going to start a wagon on EE but then starts the wagon for ness instead. Since Ness was clearly not his scum partner. By doing this it made it look like him and EE weren't partners intentionally throwing town people off.

Then EE didn't think Ness was scum but because Ness didn't post any content he votes for him (post 242) then later he doesnt want to waste anytime in closing the vote at the end. post 380, post 382

I also want to note that I didn't like how EE voted for Usted even after Usted claimed PRT.. It felt to similar to souls answer.( post 449) Plus for someone who says he is town and for the most part would know Usted was town then he probably shouldnt have voted for him. Especially since there wasnt a CC disproving usted's claim. so he voted usted knowing fully he was town. That seems pretty scummy to me.

Also after saying he reads me as a strong town he makes this post..
post 457
he was defending soul and then jumps to the idea that I may be scum after stating he felt I was town. That was kind of scummy in itself ( even if I was the first one to pop into his head post 465)

Here are some other team I think I could see too..
Soul/Workdawg
Workdawg/EE


Okay all three of these gentlemen are smooth talkers and can talk themselves out of almost anything I say and which of course causes me to doubt but if we are going off reads and gut feelings I think it might make it a bit easier... lol maybe.

Here are my reads

Usted

Going off his reads and claim I think he is more than likely town especially since no one had disproved his claim.

newbie and huntress

read/feel as town to me

Workdawg

I will say even putting him as a possible scum team^^ I think I'm leaning more town with him. That doesnt mean I'm completely sold but he saying a few thing lately I agree with.

EE

Ah EE I know I will probably be hearing from you but I feel right now EE could be scum. He is very quick to attack those who call him out or vote for him.

Soul

seems like scum to me at the moment. He is really good at writing posts but I felt that by him breaking down usted claim was actually worse then usted actually claiming. It was like he was trying to find out which exact role usted had or find the other PRT. If he is town then analyzing it probably wasn't wise choice because scum found out more information to help them possibly win.


VOTE: Soul

[Kahlan]

Re 495: How did soul start the Ness wagon though? I and Workdawg are already voting for Ness by the time soul voted. By that, you can even say I started Ness wagon.
About EE, him hammering Ness is not scummy. Before he voted, others (Drixx, Usted and Huntress) had express the intent to hammer. It's only a matter of time before Ness is lynched.
What about Huntress feels like town? because I am not seeing it.

Re 497: EE, who are your top two scum?

@newbie I'm sorry that was actually a typo on my part. I meant to say that soul stayed on the ness wagon. I thought I had changed it. When I wrote the post I wrote a very long post and ended up deleting most of it and was rewriting it. I thought I had fixed it but I guess I didnt. I thought it interesting that he would stay on the ness wagon and his vote never changed. Granted votes don't really need to change if you have good reason but his vote stayed the same through the rest of day one. Now with you pointing out that you and workdawg started the ness wagon.. It has me thinking if we base it off what eagle said about in his experience scum usually rides the middle of the wagon and if I'm right in thinking that both scum were on the wagon that would mean scum might very well be you newbie, workdawg ,or me. I know for sure I am not scum so that would leave newbie and workdawg. So based off that little theroy I would say i no longer vote for soul I'll

VOTE: Newbie

Also I just feel like huntress is town but I also don't have a lot to really good by in the ways of reads yet. I'll wait until she actually plays more like she said she would to actually say for sure if she is scum or not. I think if she was telling the truth about playing more that she should have the chance to play. But If you don't feel like huntress is town then why aren't you pushing to lynch her with eagle?

I haven't had the chance to read all the other post yet but I'll try my best to respond to some today.

[Kahlan]

Now with you pointing out that you and workdawg started the ness wagon.. It has me thinking if we base it off what eagle said about in his experience scum usually rides the middle of the wagon and if I'm right in thinking that both scum were on the wagon that would mean scum might very well be you newbie, workdawg ,or me.

I am confused as to why you are looking at those who started the wagon if you are basing it off what Eagle had said. He said scum rides in the middle, so wouldn't you look at middle then? And why me over Work? What about me that you find is scummy?

@newbie I was just basing it off a theory that if scum started the wagon (in this case you and workdawg) but then didn't want to look like scum so they pulled back but revote later ending up in the middle of the wagon. Which would make Eagle's post come into play. That scum usually rides in the middle. Now if that is true then maybe both or only one scum member was riding in the middle. As of right now I chose you based off scum possibly being in the middle. It may not be the best reason. I kind of wanted to see how things would played out a bit but you have been the only other person who seems to see the higher possibility that both scum were on the ness wagon.(bold part below) If you think that then why are you okay with huntress being lynched when she wasn't on the wagon? Who would be your top scum picks? (Especially basing off of both scum players were on the wagon)

Also I just feel like huntress is town but I also don't have a lot to really good by in the ways of reads yet. I'll wait until she actually plays more like she said she would to actually say for sure if she is scum or not. I think if she was telling the truth about playing more that she should have the chance to play. But If you don't feel like huntress is town then why aren't you pushing to lynch her with eagle?

I was voting for Huntress. I unvoted after reading Soul response to your question. It made me look at the wagon again to see who voted and who didn't. I missed that 3 out of 4 not on the wagon are confirmed town. So if I am calculating the probability correct (it had always been my weak point in math though), the chances of both scum being on the wagon are higher.

1. Due to a lack of content, I don't find her actions necessarily scummy but it's not helping the town either.

As town, one should also be contributing to allow others to read them. If we get to lylo, it won't be good to leave a spot that doesn't give you a lot of read because you can't just rely on gut alone. That is why I asked you what you find about Huntress is town.

I did find one thing I liked about that spot but it was when Dom was there. Others will probably feel indifferent about what I liked though.

2. And me being fine with her lynch and me wanting to push her is completely different. If you look at my iso, I am not the type to push others a lot. I will leave that to those who push to get reads, like Eagle or Workdawg.

1. This is almost the exact reason Ness was lynched at the end. Lack of content or the lack of content people seemed to want. Apparently some of the town are bad at posting content like everyone else on here seems to want. Which would also mean that maybe our two scum players are very good at posting and putting the content out there to make it seem that if you aren't post like they are then your more than likely scum. So I would say yes her lack of content isn't helping the town but what if the bar for the content wanted/ expected is a little high because of scum?

2. Now I understand that you don't push reads and that not what I was suggesting on your part. I was simply stating if you think she is scum and would like to see her lynched then why aren't you voting for her (again) now in order to have her lynched?

[Kahlan]

@Kahlan -I am sorry but I just can't follow that theory. The fact that Eagle stated way in the beginning that scum usually are in the middle of a wagon,

1.wouldn't scum be careful of not staying in the middle? This has WIFOM all over it that I wouldn't use it as a way to find scum.

Just because there is a higher possibility of both scum on Ness wagon, it doesn't make Huntress completely town. Especially if people can't give me at least one action of hers that makes them town-read her. From what I have read, they either have her as null (because of lack of content) or scum (through PoE or for being helpful to town).

For day 2, my top two picks are Soul and Huntress (I have stated this in my previous post). But if you want me to pick both from Ness wagon, then Soul and Work (because I like Eagle as town even though I go back and forth for him as town or null). I like Work's reasoning though so I don't want him lynched today.

2-1. Ness was not lynched completely due to lack of content. Go look at Ness iso and Huntress/Dom iso, they are different.

2. I don't see the need to vote for her now. I can vote for her later in the day if her posts still haven't convinced me that she's town.

@newbie 1.Can you explain to me why using WIFOM isn't a good way to find scum? I'm a bit confused. Are those who usually us it scum? I notice that workdawg pointed out a few times that usted was doing WIFOM and that was around the time some thought he was scum. Also to answer your question without trying to make is seems like an WIFOM I just think there is always a chance of scum still riding in the middle. It could throw other players off. I can see though how the possibility of them riding in the middle on the first wagon might not be very high.

2. I know that wasn't the full reason why ness was lynched that's why said

Almost

. It wasn't the full reason but it's what put the last nail in.

I 'll go back and read more and see if I can find something more solid to present. For now I'll just
UNVOTE: Newbie
I'm still not completely sold on the idea that huntress isn't town but I'll go read and see if there is something I haven't seen before.

[Kahlan]

WIFOM this VOTE: Eagle

[Kahlan]

The issue with WIFOM is that it is unavoidable in any situation with enough unknown variables (i.e. your average game of Mafia.) Until someone has officially flipped, you can always say

"but what if that's what they want me think!?"

For that reason: Yes, it's the probably the scum's best tool. Though it isn't one they usually need to wield, as us paranoid townies can usually do it to ourselves plenty well without the extra help. >< But if you think someone is intentionally trying to guide you or someone else into WIFOM, I consider it a pretty valid suspicion.

-----

Anyway... we're like two days out from deadline. So I guess I'd better vote or get off the pot. I've been saying Huntress was top of my list most of the day and so far nothing has really come up to change that. I have my doubts, but I feel it's a better shot than a lot of the other choices at the moment.

So... VOTE: Huntress

According to last votecount, that puts her at

L-1

.

@soul, what if she is our other TPR? We need to make sure we are picking the right person or we are going to probably lose the other TPR. I feel she is town but feelings can be wrong just like you have your doubts but what if she is town and turns out to be the other TPR? Would that end up hurting town more?

[Kahlan]

So since usted unvoted doesn't that mean huntress is no longer at L-1? That would make just eagle at L-1. I'm also curious as to why eagle isn't trying to talk his why out of getting lynched? Usually when he gets acused of something he is pretty quick to defend himself. He seems to really want huntress gone and maybe because she was so close to being lynched he doesn't feel the need to defend himself? I'm just a bit curious as to why eagle hasn't tried to talk people to save himself from getting lynched. It's like he know huntress will get lynched so he has no need to fear?

[Kahlan]

@workdawg usted has claimed intent to hammer on eagle. That's why I was wondering why eagle hasn't been defending himself. I intially did vote as a joke but as of right now since eagle doesn't seem to care that he was at L-1 had me concerned that's why I'll keep my vote on eagle for now. Plus with huntress I can see how she looked like she hid her L-1 on eagle because I got accused for the same thing once before but how are you suppose to make it more well known if bolding doesn't seem to catch people's eyes? She did say it twice and since she did that I didn't think she was trying to hide it.

[Kahlan]

So If just bolding the L-1 part is hiding it then soul looks like he was hiding the L-1 against huntress earlier. He just put the L-1 in bold.

[Kahlan]

@workdawg I have a few reasons in that same reads post (#495) about why I felt eagle was/is scum. I have thought that awhile. If we read my ISO you'll see I have a few FoS on him too. But You are right in the way I voted for him probably wasn't the best. I truly did it because I actually thought eagle would have jumped on it and asked me what the heck or something. So unless he didn't see it, take it serious or didn't feel the need to acknowledge it which was a bit weird on his part. I usually bug him a lot when I accuse or point the finger his way he usually reaponds and I thought for sure he would react to what I had posted. I didn't really respond to anyone's post when they were explaining WIFOM because I didn't feel a need to because no one asked a question. I just took them as information post. I haven't been ignoring eagle I thought for sure I would get a argument out of him for my post but he was/is too busy going at it with huntress.

The problem I see is can we really base information off the Dom? Sure huntress is trying to make people see her side of it because people keep comparing her and her actions to the Dom when in reality she is s different person/player. I don't think what the Dom did should be held against her. He was a bad player to begin with. Drixx had even pointed out earlier ( if you want to post I can find it) in the game that the Dom plays similar in all his prior games. Posting very little and probably looking scummy for doing it. So I feel we are comparing the two so much when in reality huntress has posted/played more.

I want to also point out that usted is no longer voting for her and he is town, I'm not voting for her and I'm town. So if you or newbie decide to vote for her and lynch her that would mean her supposed partner in crime the other scum member is willing to lynched her. So either huntress is not scum or her partner doesn't like her very much if they are willing to lynch her.

[Kahlan]

@soul that is true but how are we to know for sure the Dom/huntress is scum or if it'sjust the way he presented himself was scummy which in turn is judgement on the player and his actions. We all at one point have done something people have pointed out as scummy so how is what the Dom did any different? We can't really ask the Dom what he was thinking or why he did what he did. I think huntress is answering to her best abilities.

[Kahlan]

@workdawg talk about hiding L-1s? you didn't even put it in your post. You need to let everyone know that huntress is at L-1 now.

[Kahlan]

Lol dang @workdawg i didn't see those last post. Disregard my last post

[Kahlan]

@workdawg talk about hiding L-1s? you didn't even put it in your post. You need to let everyone know that huntress is at L-1 now.

Hey I said I didn't see it. I'm sorry :/ way to make it well known that she was lynched though..lol

[Kahlan]

Good game guys! Thanks for helping me play my first game and being patient with me! I'm excited we won! Way to go town