UNI MUM Mafia (Day 3, Stay Gold Pony)

[Jeanne11]

He means that town needs to kill him because mafia wants him alive, as you said. Speaking of which, I need to die too.

[3dicerolling]

Yeah, I really am not a fan of this diamond wagon. Looks an awful lot like scum pushed on a guy who is town but saying dorky stuff

Vote itlepip with me then.

why is what itlepip said about diamondsentinel more likely to come from scum than town?

why didn't you comment on davsto saying almost the exact same thing?

I felt like pip's jump was opportunistic scum trying to push a last minute wagon. That's the vibe I got from pip.

Link the post pls I missed it.

No response to me 3dice? I answered your question!

Also, about the invented desperado gun... let's just say I have reason to believe that the mod believes 1) you can't change someone's role, 2) you can't restrict a gun, other than in number of shots, and 3) the default number of shots given, if not specified, depends on exact wording used.

So, basically, it's probably unlimited and a regular vig. Need to reread davsto, buf, well....voteless scum? Not impossible, seems hard to balance though. Voteless scum that is given the tools to appear to have a vote and leave uncertainty as to who exactly is the voteless party, but claims their votelessness AND asks to be policy lynched? That appears extremely improbable.

Nope!

Is davsto the sort of player who would make a play like that?

I think he just might be, while being able to go out on more risky ground than he normally would (ie, blatantly pushing really fucking easy lynch-bait) Normally that puts you in hot water, his claim causes us to give him benefit of the doubt.

I think roleplay is right, I think this is a trick role of some sort.

3dice, if I'm wrong on this I'll give what you say more credence but I really think I'm right here; trust me?

Nah, your hydra's been kinda sketchy sketch this game. Plus davsto dropped some mild towntells earlier this game, and I don't think he's scum.

[DiamondSentinel]

@Mass Flop Did you miss the part where I said I was just VT? All of these roles aren't all that interesting. Dramonic gave me probably the most miserable role he could.



Anyways, while I think that Itlepip's logic is PBad, I don't think he's scum. He's certainly not being helpful, though, so if you think that's a good reason to lynch him, I can't really argue there.

PEdit: Yeah, still not a fan of itle's post. Doesn't really connect.

"I see A, and B probably would happen, and C is obviously true (because reasons). D is also obvious."

There is no point to that sentence other than stating 2 things that are apparently obvious (thus not worth saying), 1 speculation which doesn't really leave us with much right now, and one genuine statement that has no backing whatsoever. So do with that what you will.

[RolePlay25]

Wait, WHY does Davsto have to be killed before LyLo? He doesn't even have a vote, which means that Town-Davsto would be who mafia MOST wants to take to LyLo.

Exactly, which is why he needs to die before LyLo. If he's town, then he's literally useless in LyLo. If he's scum, he's... scum.

Basically a milder version of the reason you lynch Neutral Survivors.

[itlepip]

@Mass Flop Did you miss the part where I said I was just VT? All of these roles aren't all that interesting. Dramonic gave me probably the most miserable role he could.



Anyways, while I think that Itlepip's logic is PBad, I don't think he's scum. He's certainly not being helpful, though, so if you think that's a good reason to lynch him, I can't really argue there.

Okay, so first thing you have to do here is find a spot where my logic was wrong, which you haven't done. Second I'm pretty sure nobody is advocating policy lynching me for being unhelpful. If they were I would be considerably more upset at them. For me this section reads super WKy, so I'm fairly certain that Diamond is scum here.

PEdit: Yeah, still not a fan of itle's post. Doesn't really connect.

"I see A, and B probably would happen, and C is obviously true (because reasons). D is also obvious."

Nice, which post was it? I'd love to refute this but I legitimately don't know what post this is referring to.

There is no point to that sentence other than stating 2 things that are apparently obvious (thus not worth saying), 1 speculation which doesn't really leave us with much right now, and one genuine statement that has no backing whatsoever. So do with that what you will.

[DiamondSentinel]

@Mass Flop Did you miss the part where I said I was just VT? All of these roles aren't all that interesting. Dramonic gave me probably the most miserable role he could.



Anyways, while I think that Itlepip's logic is PBad, I don't think he's scum. He's certainly not being helpful, though, so if you think that's a good reason to lynch him, I can't really argue there.

Okay, so first thing you have to do here is find a spot where my logic was wrong, which you haven't done. Second I'm pretty sure nobody is advocating policy lynching me for being unhelpful. If they were I would be considerably more upset at them. For me this section reads super WKy, so I'm fairly certain that Diamond is scum here.

PEdit: Yeah, still not a fan of itle's post. Doesn't really connect.

"I see A, and B probably would happen, and C is obviously true (because reasons). D is also obvious."

Nice, which post was it? I'd love to refute this but I legitimately don't know what post this is referring to.

There is no point to that sentence other than stating 2 things that are apparently obvious (thus not worth saying), 1 speculation which doesn't really leave us with much right now, and one genuine statement that has no backing whatsoever. So do with that what you will.

The one where you said that you see Davsto as town (A), and had 1 of 2 people as probably scum (B), and then me just sheeping my buddy (C), and then obviously Davsto has to die before LyLo (D)

Proved that point sufficiently enough.

As for the first, I'll look into it. I'm a bit tired, though. Running on empty (nearly fell asleep in the shower, woot woot)

[itlepip]

First off A wasn't obvious cause people were scumreading Davsto. D was obvious but D wasn't a point in that post, my point in that post was that none of the people arguing for a Davsto lynch explained why the vig idea was worse than lynching Davsto there. B and C are just my reads/analysis.

[DiamondSentinel]

I wasn't saying A was the obvious point. That was the genuine statement that you have yet to back up.

[itlepip]

I really liked his reaction test with his fake vote way back. I had a strong town read on Davsto and he hasn't really done for me to change that. I understand the whole thing that is happening with Davsto kinda defending himself, but it doesn't feel that productive. If Davsto has a reason for trying to last an extra day and was scum, he would have claimed some 1 shot useful PR thing. I'm not sure there is a convincing narrative for what scumDavsto is doing but I understand what townDavsto is doing to I accept townDavsto right now.

Why Davsto is town

What was the other obvious point in your mind? B or C?

[Klingoncelt]

Unvote

KC got a role that confirms her town so decided to play like total fucking shit. Whatever.

Catching up.

VOTE: Roleplay25

This needs to go.

[Cerberus v666]

Unvote

KC got a role that confirms her town so decided to play like total fucking shit. Whatever.

Catching up.

VOTE: Roleplay25

This needs to go.

What? Because he said you're playing terribly? You are. :p *shrug* I know you've been busy etc., but you didn't even engage with the wagon at all to get more information on the members of the wagon before you ended up confirmed. You....basically wasted your role, because you couldn't be bothered to go v/la during a time when you wouldn't be available.

[Klingoncelt]

Unvote

KC got a role that confirms her town so decided to play like total fucking shit. Whatever.

Catching up.

VOTE: Roleplay25

This needs to go.

What? Because he said you're playing terribly? You are. :p *shrug* I know you've been busy etc., but you didn't even engage with the wagon at all to get more information on the members of the wagon before you ended up confirmed. You....basically wasted your role, because you couldn't be bothered to go v/la during a time when you wouldn't be available.

Don't defend him. If he were a good player, then maybe. But he's not a good player, he just makes a bunch of noise.

I believe I've made notice of my current V/LA.

[Cerberus v666]

I predict the town will freak out and rush some lynch in the last 12 hours of the day. I wish I could do more to prevent that, but I'm super busy the next 36 hours. :/

[RolePlay25]

I predict the town will freak out and rush some lynch in the last 12 hours of the day. I wish I could do more to prevent that, but I'm super busy the next 36 hours. :/

Yeah I'm not interested in doing that. I rather like this vote, overall.

[Shiro]

@MF

Hey you forgot me being an amnesiac miller >:/

@Rp

I was about to say that I am not that inactive and then I realised I am last on the list. O_o

Admittedly that's not like me. I tend to be on the top/mid spectrum but eh. What can you do.

[Mass Flop]

Rrr.
It's 3 AM.
I still have a promise to fulfill in making a linked in account tonight.
...And, also, because I failed my art blitz (well, actually, I succeeded, just not in the intended way: I failed to get the pages done that I wanted, but I got something much, much better out of the deal, where I became actually CONFIDENT in myself), I need to finish the page for my comic. Heck, I was planning on doing a second, but that's not happening tonight.

I realize I've got a shitload of pages to read, but I don't have the time right now.

(Honestly, I'm not going to have nearly as much time as I thought I would, really. I was thrown a curveball yesterday. See, I submitted for work hours as a lifeguard, paraphrasing, "I can work all these hours, but I would PREFER to only work one day: Sunday." I was hoping that was granted. Yesterday, I went in and got the new schedule...and found out that I work literally every single day except Saturday, for a SIGNIFICANT amount of time. So it wasn't. Meaning, all that time which I was hoping to have free, I now...don't. Monday is the worst shift because it's at night, thus, why it took me so long to get here. I won't be able to get caught up immediately. But I WILL be able to get caught up. If I told you I'd get caught up tomorrow, that'd be a lie. You're probably going to have over 80 pages by then. I will, however, say that I SHOULD have the free time tomorrow for mafia as to at least begin. The key here will be getting caught up faster than you produce content. I'm pretty sure I can do that. I simply can't do it right NOW. So I realize it's a bit of game neglect, but it won't last long. I'm strategically attacking my time management, now. Carefully planning out what I can and can't do. Can't: spend hours to get caught up overnight. Can't: work for a short time TONIGHT. Can: work for a short time tomorrow. It sucks, I know, I hate doing this more than you could EVER possibly imagine, but I *need* to be smart about how I manage this unfortunate situation.)

[zMuffinMan]

Voteless scum that is given the tools to appear to have a vote and leave uncertainty as to who exactly is the voteless party, but claims their votelessness AND asks to be policy lynched? That appears extremely improbable.

i don't think claiming the votelessnes is a point in his favour, given this is something people would have figured out via looking at the votecounts and using simple deduction eventually - actually i think it would have been more of a town move to not claim this as early as he did tbh

as far as asking to be lynched, eh. ignoring possible reasons scum might *actually* want to be lynched (whether because he has a role that benefits from this or because he just thinks there's credit to be gained from the way partners interact with him, which seems an unusual concept to me but i know people seem to think this a legitimate strategy...), this also seems like something people would have also reasoned eventually anyway. the only point in his favour here is that he seems really insistent about it, which would be unusual scum behaviour (again, unless he has a reason to want to die)

the thing that bothers me most about davsto is the way he's been approaching reads this game. i thought his diamondsentinel read early on was not particularly great (and somewhat hypocritical given diamondsentinel is fruit that hangs, at best, centimetres off the ground) and his scum reads since then have had some rather weak justification (actually, i'm not even sure if jeanne was a scum read for him? and the only other scum read i've seen him mention is mass flop for their reaction to his claim and the reasoning there isn't great, either). he's playing a very low-profile game and i don't think his "lack of enthusiasm" can be attributed to his votelessness

I think this is a trick role of some sort

if by "trick role" you mean he's lying about his being permanently voteless or something, i don't think that matters - if he later says, "oh, hey guys, i actually DO have a vote, jk about that voteless stuff" then he should be lynched, and he needs to die at some point anyway, so it doesn't really matter

Can we lynch LH now? They're scum. I feel it in my bones.

LH had a rather strong entrance to the game and i felt like they were hitting all the right notes early on - the only thing that really bothers me about them is the absence and the complete lack of anything resembling a push on their primary scum reads. and i'm bothered a little by the confidence of some of the town reads they're stating at the points they're stating them

but eh, not entirely sure they're the best D1 lynch

This wagon seems out-of-the-blue, convenient, and opportunistic

any wagon that happens at this point in the day is going to be "out of the blue", "convenient" and "opportunistic", but what "opportunism" are you suggesting there is here? do you think scum have anything to gain by trying to get rid of a claimed voteless player who is asking to be vig killed?

I don't like Elbirn planning out deaths.

what does this mean and why does it make him scum?

[Jeanne11]

I predict the town will freak out and rush some lynch in the last 12 hours of the day. I wish I could do more to prevent that, but I'm super busy the next 36 hours. :/

Of course we wiil, cos no lynch is thw worst thing that can happen.

[zMuffinMan]

This logic does NOT come from a person who genuinely thinks they should be policy lynched.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD I AS SCUM GUN FOR YOU IF YOU COULD EVENTUALLY LEAD TO AN AUTOWIN, AS YOU SAY? Trick role as in vote comes back, its gone temporarily, you can disable it whatever, I don't give a fuck. You're scum for reasons outside of that role, but this post here is an explicit confession that you are no mere bad-voter.

i more or less agree with the conclusion about his mindset here

but i don't think it matters that it matters if he can gain a vote somehow; if at some point he tries to plead his way out of it, i would take that as an admission of guilt at this point, as should anyone. and i think all arguments along the lines of "he's scum lying about his role" are silly. he could very well be scum anyway, but whether or not he's lying about his role matters not at all at this point

Muffin, who are you voting?

well, no one atm - i was abstaining from voting until i'd caught up but i'm probably never going to get around to fully catching up (i'm just isoing players of interest at the moment)

i am thinking about lynching shiro today, mostly because there's very little (read: nothing) in that iso that makes me think town outside of how the claim came about, but that is becoming increasingly less relevant as the game goes on

i don't think itlepip is all that likely to flip scum - i quite liked his entrance in the game (in particular, i liked the sir berus vote, not for the reasoning necessarily, but because i think it would be a very odd choice of pushes as a scum player given the game state at the time and it looks more like the sort of vanity vote i could see town making if they genuinely believed they were on to something, but i also like most of the other angles he was seeing and talking about in his catchup). i've also quite liked the assertiveness he's shown in his pushes in general. and i don't really see anything in his iso that makes me think scum and i think 3dice's point about him thinking diamondsentinel is scummy for the reaction to the IC claim is very questionable

there are also certain reasons that are not explicitly

within the game

that i think itlepip could be town

i don't particularly want to lynch mass flop today - partially because there are some things i like in their play so far and partially because i think mastin is going to make her alignment incredibly clear when she actually starts posting, and unlike a normal game where i'd fear her killing me off early, varsoon has apparently made me bulletproof so i am not at all concerned about this - that said, if i do somehow die early in this game, it wouldn't necessarily point back to mastin, but i would keep a very, very close eye on what she posts after that

i had an early town read on 3dice - he's not the paragon of towniness but i haven't seen anything in particular that's stood out as likely to come from scum

other candidates for lynches are probably better left until later days. maybe. i'll probably spend the remaining time in this day phase reading isos and trying to solidify my reads

his ISO is pretty depressing

eh, don't really see this. what don't you like about it?

if he is scum, he's playing very out-of-the-ordinary for what i'd expect of scum who isn't (doesn't seem) particularly experienced. he's being rather vocal in a lot of his pushes and the fact that he actually

has

been providing a lot of thoughts and pushing a lot of players is something i think is something i generally associate with town play. i don't think all of his pushes have had the most solid reasoning, but i don't really think there's been any blatant scum motivation in his pushes

Like he didn't even try, didn't even look into EP being scum, or talk about it at all, while other people WERE discussing it.

why wouldn't he do this as scum, though?

unless you're just suggesting he forgot, in which case, eh, i'd say it's just as likely that he could be town and something changed his mind

tbh i'd think it stranger if he went from "oh i want to lynch EP if he doesn't shoot sharky" to "oh EP shot scum... DIE SCUM DIE!!!"

I felt like pip's jump was opportunistic scum trying to push a last minute wagon. That's the vibe I got from pip.

what does opportunistic even mean here? what opportunity was being seized? why would scum want to seize this opportunity over any other available options? there weren't even any other real wagons happening at the time

i don't even think the reasoning was that flawed and i quite agree with whatever post it was that i think elbirn detailed the possible reasons he might have done it as either alignment, so it really doesn't bother me that someone might have scum read diamondsentinel for that push if they felt it wasn't coming from a genuine place

this is where davsto did the same thing, for reference

i mean, it's not like there couldn't be scum who think it's a good angle to push for whatever reason, but i don't think this alone is good justification for a vote

[zMuffinMan]

actually, i am going to say the reasons that aren't explicitly

within the game

but i would advise no one discuss this since it is not really breaking site rules but it very well could if discussed

there are three premises from which i am drawing my own personal conclusion, you may or may not draw the same conclusion but regardless, it is not wise to discuss why you do or don't

- itlepip (seems like/plays like/is a newbie and, in general, i think newbies are far less likely to want to play scum than town, especially in a larger game like this
- itlepip has flaked from two other games recently
- itlepip has not only remained in this game, but has been actively posting and contributing content

[zMuffinMan]

hm, i was under the impression that dram had given (or was going to give) a slight extension to the deadline for the holidays but apparently not - IMUM at play, i guess

i want to lynch this today

Vote: Shiro

[Cerberus v666]

Dram gave a 3 day extension which we spent almost lynching KC and then became wracked with indecision.

People could not have figures out his votelessness zmuffin. He shows up in counts, but his vote counts as zero if hammer were to happen. So, in the case of today, if I understand correctly. ....there would be 9 names voting, but it would only show 8 as voting, but prior to that it would show the correct numbers. If we're willing to do some science with people hopping on and off the wagon we could figure it out, but all he'd have to do is not be on the wagon at the time the hammer happens and nobody would ever notice.

About itlepip...within a couple sentences of the one you quoted has me saying that I don't know why scum him wouldn't join in on the conversation about EP.

Is it really so much less suspicious to say " We lynch him regardless of the alignment of who he shoots, if he doesn't shoot sharky," thus implying that going "oh he shot scum, let's lynch him", than actually making that statement after the shot would have been???

Yes, Shiro is the other top choice, of you would, at this point today. Is this a vote for being unproductive, or because he actually did something scummy?

[zMuffinMan]

If we're willing to do some science with people hopping on and off the wagon we could figure it out, but all he'd have to do is not be on the wagon at the time the hammer happens and nobody would ever notice.

yeah... every single day...

Is it really so much less suspicious to say " We lynch him regardless of the alignment of who he shoots, if he doesn't shoot sharky," thus implying that going "oh he shot scum, let's lynch him", than actually making that statement after the shot would have been???

i don't understand what you're actually asking here, but i will say that, in the context of thinking it's a desperado gun, thinking it's wise to lynch someone if they deliberately veer from recommendations isn't strange. e.g. they could have chosen to shoot scum because, well, that was the only choice they had if they didn't want to sacrifice their own life

there's a number of reasons he might not have pushed this issue further after the flip (including the fact that he could now just think it's a regular vig shot, which seems to be the case given some of his more recent posts) - i am unsure why you think it's more likely scum would forget it (or whatever you're suggesting is the case?) than town would drop it. i don't think "well he didn't say why he dropped it" is good evidence of anything - lots of people change their minds without explaining every change in their thought process

Is this a vote for being unproductive, or because he actually did something scummy?

the former. it's hard to "do something scummy" when you're barely posting
\
and i think it's a better lynch than the other available options at the moment

[zMuffinMan]

oh and the "not be on the wagon at the time of the hammer" thing is going to look suspicious as fuck in itself if he has to continually hop off any wagon before it comes to fruition

further, if it ever comes to light at a later stage and he has to start making excuses for it, he's going to look bad for it anyway

i think, if he is scum, he realised he had a very short shelf-life in this game regardless, or he has other reasons he wants to be lynched / killed

that said, it doesn't really matter; he should be lynched or vig-killed sooner rather than later

[zMuffinMan]

also i mean shiro's posted 39 times, but there's like 2 post with any game-relevant content in them and the game-relevant content isn't particularly great so yeah

i wouldn't describe it as "being unproductive" except insofar as shit like active lurking and iioa is always unproductive