UNI MUM Mafia (Day 3, Stay Gold Pony)

[3dicerolling]

Second, I am an easy mislynch. Fear of Titus scum. Muffin has lurked and insulted people, endearing him to no one here.

I could swing for this lynch.

[Elbirn]

I won't move from my only other scumread just because you disagree with it.

p-edit: I think he's scum because, well, his pushes were the players who were already pushed prior to his posts. Also, there is his doubt about how I know I and Sharky were investigative. The answer is, there's no 'and', there is 'or'. I knew one of us is an investigative because that's me. And I was right. Losing either of us is a disadvantage to town.

...Jeanne this doesn't make any sense. Not even a little bit.

You said that losing either you or Sharky would be losing an investigative. Full stop.
I also have zero knowledge of your alignment, therefore even if you are town *I don't know that* and therefore can not know that I'd be pushing town and losing town an investigative role. Which you've completely destroyed the utility of by claiming it early AND claiming who your target tonight is going to be :/

Stop this. You know this is town Jeanne from Sudikoen. You aren't mislynching either of us.

So like
I'm really supposed to be working on that post that Cerb asked for pretty please
So I'm out of this conversation after this post and working on that like really guys work soon I can't do good shit when I'm not laptop-able

But anyway Titus one of my biggest beefs with you, which I hope to highlight later, is the way you craft this narrative about what I'm doing and what my motivations are. Here it's "Elbirn KNOWS that Jeanne is town." And how does Elbirn know that Jeanne is town? "Because Elbirn PLAYED with Jeanne in a previous game. So he should have perfect knowledge of her playstyle and thus he KNOWS her alignment". Uh huuhhhhh. And what am I trying to do by engaging in dialogue with Jeanne here? "Elbirn is trying to MISLYNCH JEANNE!"

None of this makes a damn lick of sense. I don't know Jeanne's alignment. I don't have a fucking clue. I'm also not trying to get her lynched, I'm challenging her logic and her reasons for thinking I am scum, which are absolute bunk.

[Cerberus v666]

Ah, finally. Glorious, glorious conversation.

Elbirn, I'm willing to give them a pass on D1. I'm not willing to give them a pass beyond that. That's all I'm really saying. I don't mind lynching them at some point, but I feel it's terribad to lynch good players on D1 without very strong evidence that they're scum. Also, have you seen Jeanne scum Elbirn? I know I haven't, and given that and the fact that her town play is hilariously anti-town, I don't see why this couldn't be scum jeanne. If you've seen scum jeanne though, please let me know if what LH is saying is true, and this play is closer to her play in Suikoden rather than her scum play.


RP: Hmm. Alright, given you see that the vote makes sense, but I'll need to iso to see if I agree with your interpretation of events.

LH: Same with you. Also, Titus, you are NOT an easy mislynch. You are a pain in the fucking ass to lynch period. Just because people are willing to slog through thousands of posts duking it out with you to get you lynched, doens't mean it's "easy" to do so.

Jeanne: Who is your other scumread Jeanne? Me? The phrasing you used implies that it's me, but it isn't precise so you could be talking about someone else. And, this isn't about moving your vote from your scumreads, it's about killing the vanity wagons and finding the one that has a shot of actually happening.

[Jeanne11]

No. It's Elbirn.

[Jeanne11]

And yes, I said lynching me or him would mean losing an investigative. Lynching me OR him. That implies one of us is an investigative. One, not both. The fact that you're asserting how I said both of us are investigative is silly.

[Cerberus v666]

I won't move from my only other scumread just because you disagree with it.

p-edit: I think he's scum because, well, his pushes were the players who were already pushed prior to his posts. Also, there is his doubt about how I know I and Sharky were investigative. The answer is, there's no 'and', there is 'or'. I knew one of us is an investigative because that's me. And I was right. Losing either of us is a disadvantage to town.

What did you mean by the bolded then? You're already voting Elbirn. How can he be the other you're referring to?

Also, syntactically, saying "lynching a or b loses town an investigative " means you are saying doing EITHER a or b leads to losing an investigative. If you wanted to say what you claim you meant, you should have said if you lynch a AND b. That is the only way that doesn't seem to mean you have knowledge of sharky's role.

[Cerberus v666]

Like, imagine sharky was vt, and we lynched him. What you said would have been incorrect, because we lynched one of the two listed, and we did not lynch an investigative.

[Elbirn]

I am not selling you on Cerb being your buddy.

VOTE: Elbrin

So many lies about Klingon by you both. You both pushed this was scum Klingon in direct contradiction to any town player seeing that game.

Verb's even lying about not having pushed Klingon. Oh wait, he's active lurking and avoiding voting by his self imposed anti-town behavior so he can claim he never pushed it.

You want a fight Elbrin. You v me. Let's go.

Who defended obvtown Klingon? Who had a vote on scum pre desperado shot? Who designed the plan that forced a scum death?

Who pushed town based on lies? Wanted to chain lynch millers?

Fight us.

(I would be voting Cerb but Drixx thinks Cerb isn't that helpful to D3 and says to let Cerb go).

~Titus

Titus' dishonest really begins here I feel. This is pretty much the start of Titus V. Elbirn, and it's pretty much nonsense.

Bold 1: Titus seems to be holding this view that by virtue of playing Suikoden with her, Klingon, and Jeanne, I should have perfect knowledge of their alignments. This doesn't make any fucking sense for reasons I shouldn't have to spell out. She spins this narrative wherein I'm LYING about Klingon (How? What? Where? Why?) and that anyone else who saw Suikoden would KNOW Klingon's alignment. The assertion that I am lying is a lie, and it is also completely unproven.

Bold 2: Once again asserting that I am a liar, that I push town on lies (Again unproven) (How am I to know who is town and who isn't, anyway?), and now asserting that I campaigned to chain lynch the two millers. Again unproven, and unfounded. She refers to an early post where I glibly toy with the notion that the millers are fake claiming scum. Maybe that one post really was that bad, fuckmelol. It seems pretty clear to me that I have never, not even once, suggested or pushed for us to lynch both millers, I voted for Shiro once early on and then backed off after deciding he wasn't scum. Errant I have never even touched, and given the scum shot I feel she's (He's?) (I swear s/he had a female pronoun listed when s/he joined the site and now nothing is listed what do) almost certainly town. So the assertion that I want both of them dead is really, really gross. And, again, a lie.

In spoilers, my response to Learned Hand at the time, that I felt summed things up quite nicely, but has apparently been largely glossed over

Spoiler:

I am not selling you on Cerb being your buddy.

VOTE: Elbrin

So many lies about Klingon by you both. You both pushed this was scum Klingon in direct contradiction to any town player seeing that game.

Verb's even lying about not having pushed Klingon. Oh wait, he's active lurking and avoiding voting by his self imposed anti-town behavior so he can claim he never pushed it.

You want a fight Elbrin. You v me. Let's go.

Who defended obvtown Klingon? Who had a vote on scum pre desperado shot? Who designed the plan that forced a scum death?

Who pushed town based on lies? Wanted to chain lynch millers?

Fight us.

(I would be voting Cerb but Drixx thinks Cerb isn't that helpful to D3 and says to let Cerb go).

~Titus

I didn't ask you to sell cerb as my buddy, I told you that if you think cerb is scum, engage with me and convince me. What else would you want me to do, ask you to convince *me* that I'm scum? But instead I got the above post which is an awful lot of shite, and then a boring multi quote of cerb posts with not much in the way of extrapolation. Fight me irl nerd.

VOTE: Learned Hand

1. How in creation did I EVER lie about klingon? And what majick knowledge should I have of her based on "that other game"? (Suikoden?)

2. "Who defended obvtown klingon?" In what world was she obviously town and why is that worth any fucking credit? You're scum, you knew her alignment already.

3. "Who had a vote on scum pre-desperado shot?" Uhh. Me. For a long time. Same with jeanne, davsto, rp, and cerb I think. You actually had him voted for exactly one vote count early in the day and I can't recall you pushing him at all really. I can research this one a bit better when I'm on my laptop but yeah this is obviously you being full of shit.

4. "Who designed the plan that forced a scum death?" Not you. Nice attempt at taking credit.

5. "Who wanted to chain lynch millers?" I think that was klingon actually.....in fact I think I just got done stating that this was all of her work today was doubt casting millers and pushing their death. So I don't understand why you didn't pick up on that and instead want to keep pushing that that person is me, based on one glib implication that the millers could still be scum early on, which I 180'D from shortly after and declared one of them my besties actually. This point is not only you having cognitive dissonance in your application of it to me and no one else, but also you pretty much lying about my actions to make me look like shit

6. "Who pushed town based on lies?"

You.

I've gotten everything I need here, your slot is scum and I won't rest till you're dead. Pleasure as always titus.

I don't like Elbirn planning out deaths. I'm pretty sure that's scum.

I'm not well, and am unlikely to be well before tomorrow at the earliest. Random personal issue that arises occasionally. Nothing I can do but endure it.

~Drixx

Vague, childish jabs and snipes like this have become pretty common. And is once again lies. In a discussion being had about when to kill Davsto and how to do it, he picks me out of it to go "ooo, Elbirn is scummy shit right here, he's PLOTTING DEATHS". You fuken what m8? This is a scum comment plan and simple, he's dragged me out of context, and then made the assertion that my actions are scummy (Why?) (What of, you know, literally everyone else having the same discussion with me including the policy lynch-ee who advocated for himself to be vigged, and with which I was agreeing with him?)

Forgot DS still has a shit wagon. Yeah no voting there either.

@EAP

1) Lied about Klingon meta to push case on obvious town
2) Tried to focus on Millers because they claimed millers when scum don't usually claim Miller on D1.
3) Attempted to save TN
4) Circle jerk defend each other
5) Have been pushing Jeanne and riling her up
6) Pushed wagon on town DS

Elbrin voted TN once. That's the only redemming thing there and it looks like a bus.

1a. How did I lie?
1b. The assertion that Klingon was obvious town prior to her IC reveal is a load of crap, she clearly wasn't or she wouldn't have been wagoned. The assertion that I push on obvious town is basically a lie constructed to make me look like a scummybutt who attacks people who don't deserve it

2. "Focus on millers" = "Made one post about and voted one for all of a day", apparently. "Scum don't claim miller" is just a jug of wine, they can and they will and I'm certain they have before. Not in this game mind you, I'm babbling about the nature of reality. Point is this is not some hard as steel defense for the millers.

3. How in blue blazes did I ever do this, I advocated what we at the time thought was a desperado gun/role be given to TN. If it were a desperado role/gun, TN would have died. When the gun was given to EP instead, call me crazy but I'd think I advocated for TN to be shot.

4. Who? Where? When? Is it Cerb? Yeah Cerb's a good guy I'd rub one out for him. No homo.

5. Which is bad because why?

6. My recollection aint the best but I don't think I've EVER voted or pushed DS.

Oh no wait, I just reread bits of my iso. I have lol DS has been shit this game. What ever happened to that. Yeah my votes on pushes on DS have been rock solid, no regrets.
Oh, but Titus believes that I should somehow have mysterious divine knowledge of DS being town, which she apparently has, so I shouldn't push him. Yup, got it.

Chronology is hard Elbrin. You said Jeanne was never going to be lynched and then voted her later.

This isn't a lie but it's the dumbest thing I've heard. I'm not allowed to re-evaluate my stance on a player based on incoming evidence, basically. I clearly outlined in that post my grievances with Jeanne and acted accordingly. I did no wrong.

That's an indicator of bussing.

Elbrin never had a reason to vote TN beyond RP was the first to ask him to.

Town justify moving their vote. Scum hide. Compare with Sukidoen.

I have errands to run.

I shrug eternally at this. If I didn't think TN was scum I wouldn't have voted him, and I wouldn't have stayed on him for a century. I went about it in a lolsorandumb way and now I look like shit for it, duly noted.

Again, though. Compare me to suikoden guys. Where I was town. Wha.

Elbrin's entire ISO is buddying and pushing for easy town wagons that have been disproven and when all else fails, stick his head in the sand. He has one reasonless vote in his ISO. The guy who flipped scum.

Read along kiddies. We are going through Elbrin's ISO in order.

First, he attacks townread on MassFlop slot. Null by itself.
Second, he posts a Rorschach test.
Third, he posts an argument doubtcasting the millers. I suspected this was scum taking advantage of miller issue and pinged because I knew the game likely had more than one.
Fourth, jumps on Sharky with no reason. Picks a fight over Jeanne stating that town obscure their reasoning and only scum need reasoning.
Fifth, he rolefishes Jeanne but tells her he's never going to be lynched.
Sixth (I am at 193), he buddies Klingon with old memories of past games calling it fluff.
Seventh, distances from TN by doubtcasting both TN and DS leaving room for him to go either way.
Eighth, backs off from Shiro when no one says lynch the millers and tries to exclude obvious town Jeanne from being close yo Shiro by invoking their past games.
Ninth, jumps back to Jeanne hoping for easy lynchbait.
Tenth, he jumps on Sharky because of no reason lol easy wagon.
Eleventh, when Sharky claims and thus not lynchable, Elbrin jumps to DS. He votes DS because DS refuses to put up with Roleplay's shit. This suggest Elbrin benefits from Roleplay's toxic as fuck posting.
Twelve th, Elbrin makes up a whole case against the IC and dismisses her posts as nothing but insults.
Thirteenth, he's back to Shiro bring an OK lynch.

Skip the rest is Elbrin picking a fight with me and calling me a liar.

I can't find one push not on town, like at all. Just toxic defense from those three.

And me doing all of this was supposed to conclude with my addressing every point in this and then I had to go to work. It's 3:20 my time, work starts at 4, it takes 30 minutes to drive to work. Wish me luck, I'm not even dressed yet.

[Cerberus v666]

I must say, Elbirn's response is looking pretty sexy right now. I want to see what he has to say about that last LH post though.

[Jeanne11]

Like, imagine sharky was vt, and we lynched him. What you said would have been incorrect, because we lynched one of the two listed, and we did not lynch an investigative.

Hence the 'or'. I am an investigative. You know what my sentence means, so why pretend you don't?

[Learned Hand]

Anyone seriously pushing us is either potential scum or hasn't been paying attention. I suppose there's a third option: they think we're completely and utterly the most stupid people to ever play mafia.

There's evidence in thread for why we're not scum, as early as our firsts posts. It's vastly sub-optimal to push us and force a claim today. We have already decided when to claim and have sufficiently good reasons for that decision. It only helps scum and harms town to go through the motions of what will only be a disguised role fishing expedition. I get that some of you don't like it when people say no to you when you want your curiosity satisfied, but being responsible town is more important than satisfying your curiosity.

There's nothing in the least bit scummy about our ISO, and in fact there's ample hints as to what role we were assigned. I initially felt that a day one claim made the most sense, but Titus persuaded me that there is a better time to do so, and so we'll do so when that time arrives. Since there are pedantic people in this game who will be asinine and ask about that time, let me pre-empt you by first telling you to save your time and not bother because I won't say any more than this: it will be well before we could ever be considered in end game territory. That is all any town player needs to know today, apart from what we already revealed.

I will say one more thing, although I will warn you that speculation could lead you to make very poor assumptions so do be careful: I submitted the choice for character to play as before this became a hydra. In fact, I gave Dramonic two different choices if I was randomly assigned town and a different choice if I was randomly assigned scum, all of which come from what I would argue is the best television series ever aired: Babylon 5. I'll be happy to reveal the characters that Dramonic chose not to use after the game, but the one that we were given is G'kar (although Dram spelled it G'car, probably to irritate me). You have what you need to go and find the flavor. I will say that the role we have fits nicely with the character.

Of course, the character is ambiguous. Depending on where you step into the story, you could view the character as altruistically good, self-serving good, neutral, or any number of attributes that fall under "bad". Before I close, a particularly apt quote from our character: "We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away."

---

So, make of it what you will. It will be exceptionally scummy (not to mention petty) to push us today. Town doesn't need to know what we haven't claimed yet. It's much more useful if scum doesn't know. There is a time to claim and solid reasoning for that. I mean ... don't get me wrong; I'm flattered that people are so worried about us being scum that they think it's a good idea to push us on day one ... but people may want to consider that we have both also been quite good as town, and some people's motives for trying to get a wagon on us may not be so pure.


In summation: Town folks; you want us and our role around and will have your curiosity satisfied sooner than later. Scum; screw with us at your peril.


Love, with warm milk and cookies,
Drixx

P.S. - I'm not ill anymore so you won't be just pushing Titus around. Titus is very easy to goad a reaction out of and cause all kinds of ruckus, as anyone who has played with her knows. Unless I'm ill or in a great deal of pain, you generally have to go out of your way and push me pretty far before I get nasty, but when I do it's generally unpleasant for everyone involved, and everyone caught watching it unfold. When it comes to us, you probably want to stop with the insults and such.


@Cerb - You asked why Elbirn, and the response for me is really simple: he was busy planning out deaths. It struck me as super scummy because he wasn't giving any reasons for each one. He basically asserted that the first death would be scum and that apparently somehow justified him listing off a kill order. Scum sort players in the order they intend to kill them, depending on various factors. Town generally doesn't plan out a bunch of kills on day one. There's nowhere near enough evidence to have solved the game. It's one thing if the situation is like what you and I had in SU where we had knocked the scum team 99.99% out of the game and made a list of folks to PoE our way through. At that point the game was essentially solved and it only failed because Grapes bucked when even he acknowledged he needed to be lynched and because you and I didn't stick to the list we made. But that was days into the game with most of the scum team dead and tons of information to work with.

Today is day one with very little information to work with, and Elbirn is making a list of people to kill... doesn't strike me as a town motivated thing. Furthermore, he has no conviction and is jumping on anything to see what will stick. I see scum doing that frequently ... throw enough proverbial pasta and something is bound to stick. You need only look at the post just before the thread was locked for awhile to see what I mean.


Hooray for the Great Wall of Drixx™

[Cerberus v666]

I know what you intended, I'm telling you why it was misleading. The statement you made was untrue. If you break down a sentence with or, logically, this is what happens

IF A or B, C

in this situation, LOGICALLY, let's break down the scenario

A and B occur: C occurs
A occurs, B doesn't occur: C occcurs
A doesn't occur, B occurs: C doesn't occur
A doesn't occur, B doesn't occur: C doesn't occur.

When you use or like that, you state that in 3/4 scenarios, C will occur. In this case, you were stating that only in the situation in which neither sharky or yourself are lynched, does not not lose an investigative. You can only make that statement and be correct when you know sharky is also an investigative.

That's the problem people have with it.

After thinking about it, i don't believe there actually is a way to include Sharky in that sentence and be accurate, without existing knowledge of his role. i was going to try to help you communicate it clearly next time, without the misunderstanding, but I really don't know how you would.

pedit: Yay another Drixx post!

[Cerberus v666]

Oped, ebwop:
A and B occur: C occurs
A occurs, B doesn't occur: C occcurs
A doesn't occur, B occurs: C occurs
A doesn't occur, B doesn't occur: C doesn't occur.

[3dicerolling]

I must say, Elbirn's response is looking pretty sexy right now. I want to see what he has to say about that last LH post though.

This.

[Learned Hand]

Errant shoots davsto tomorrow. No excuses or exceptions made. Solved.

Can we lynch LH now? They're scum. I feel it in my bones.

Oh hey look ... it's Elbirn planning out deaths. It's not like the lynch flip or night kill might give information that changes the equation and makes other actions desirable and therefore town would keep their options open and not pre-commit to somethi... oh ... wait.

I do have to admit to being amused by Elbirn's "I feel it in my bones" reasoning. Great rationale there bud.


@Cerberus - Unless you want me to give an English lesson in the middle of this game, kindly stop trying to correct people and be a grammar Nazi ... especially since your grammar Nazism is wrong in this case.

Love, Succinctly,
Drixx

[Learned Hand]

Bold 1: You should be able to read Twilight and Sukioden and see this is Klingon's town game. While she doesn't sabatoge, the differences were obvious for ANYONE to see. Given you lived it, you should have known. Your push on Klingon was fake as shit and acts as if you suddenly forgot. Klingon just stalls content and OMGUSes as scum. Her votes are out of left field. Klingon was wagoned by scum looking for an easy lynch. You fit that bill perfectly.

Jeanne is imploding like Sukioden but listening and incorporating advice. That fight with you about give me reasons or die is transparently fucking town. Second, flipped scum tried to trigger an implosion from her but noooo we can't know Jeanne is town. We can know Jeanne and TN aren't partners.

Me, you should have known that by judging my actions in thread.

Bold 2: Yeah, we can know who town is by this process called town hunting. It's what I did in Sudikoen and what I am doing here. Your fabrications on Klingon and Jeanne attempting to make them look bad while hiding behind plausible deniability are just scummy.

Scum generally don't claim miller unless multi ball. Talk to me tomorrow about this if we both live.

I quoted the posts on your TN interactions.

DS is town because he has the counterwagon to TN unless multiball is proven.

Your ISO is one big, let's find all the people players won't like and lynch them.

[RolePlay25]

Yay, the scum hydra, with zero votes on them, has claimed a vague and ambiguous power role that will at some point in the game be useful, if only we don't look too hard at their alignment today.

Weeeeee.

[itlepip]

Uh, cerb, I was going to answer your question, Elbrin's initial reactions to LH were awkward at best. He seemed to be assuming what he saw as a bad case from Titus/Drixx meant that Titus/Drixx were scum. Even if I bought that their case was bad (which I didn't) his reaction to LH's post into a vote on LH without looking at scum intent at all I felt to be scummy enough to compromise on. My experience of both players (especially drix in this case) is that they can produce amazing cases as scum, so I don't get how Elbrin is reading it. Diamond still is a higher scumread for me, and since Elbrin is claiming confirmable, obviously we don't lynch him here. I personally am of the belief that you should survivalism compromise on any of your scumreads. If we were midday right now I would not have unvoted from Diamond but since I have been getting nothing but crickets there and we were 1 day from deadline I was willing to compromise on an Elbrim lynch.

So I'm Le Petite Prince

Cuz it's my favorite book forealz.

I had wanted a role that would be likely to be innocent child but apparently klingon stole that from me. I won't tell you people what my role does today, but it's confirmable; whoever I target will receive a flavor message, and confirmation that I targeted them, and what I did.

So there's that

Where's the downside?

The part where it's confirmed what I did? Being a public role is bad?

um, so yeah UNVOTE:

[Cerberus v666]

How is that post you quoted from Elbirn any different from Titus' claim that sharky should be shot tomorrow? Or was titus just saying that sharky should have been shot today, because she's always right and her plan is the best one?

[RolePlay25]

Context is that was about Elbrin not you.

Second, I am an easy mislynch. Fear of Titus scum. Muffin has lurked and insulted people, endearing him to no one here.

Jeanne and Diamond are easy targets. Plain to see.

You're saying these people are terrible players NOT SCUM.

Find scum. Stop insulting town.

You are

Not town

Period

Stop trying to deflect attention with this sort of shit. "If you suspect us you must be idiots or scum!" At least Jeanne only thinks people who suspect her are scum, you toxic lying dirtbag.

[RolePlay25]

Hey friends, let me let you in on a little secret: Who is comfortable claiming vague but useful powers to deflect attention away from themselves during the day phase, the people who are afraid of being killed during the night phase, or the people who control the kill during the night phase?

L-0, Drixx has claimed vague but useful powers.

When I'm dead tomorrow, kill the scum hydra. Thanks.

[Cerberus v666]

RP, seriously, stop it with the name calling. It's unnecessary. You were already warned by the mod. i don't want the result of this game to be marred by someone getting themselves modkilled.

Drixx: that post was terrible. So bad. Why are you even telling us this right now? Why is it relevant? Why are you working so hard to diminish pressure before any pressure exists? Hell, your slots even ASKED for a 1v1, when you could have just laid low. it doesn't make sense to follow that up with a fucking wall of "keep away from us because we are good for town and we will totally claim soon". You know what happens when you do that? You tell us that you are no longer interested in a 1v1, and now you just want to get the hell out of the middle of things.

Also, I wasn't talking about grammar Drixx! I was talking about how it's very easy to look at that sentence (notice my EBWOP, because I typoed!) in terms of logical syntax, and see a clear claim that both sharky and jeanne are investigatives.

pedit: RP, that's not true. Drixx is quite content claiming vague but useful and deliberately trying to draw NK's to himself, or to do so to WIFOM scum.

[RolePlay25]

Yeah okay.

Kill the lying hydra tomorrow.

[RolePlay25]

Let me make an absolute promise: tomorrow I will stop at nothing and do nothing but work to the hardest of my ability to lynch that lying hydra.

Keep that in mind if I'm shot tonight.

[RolePlay25]

Yes, they'll scream "WIFOM!"

Ignore it.