Kim wrote:Question for most anybody on the SMRP wagon: Did you find their posts about readlists (94, 98, the first couple of paragraphs of 101, 104, and 106) suspicious?
I think I already made my opinion on early read lists pretty clear when we were having that whole conversation but in case I didn't the TL;DR is: I can see how they help town, I can see how they help scum and they were personally helpful cause they gave me a better understanding of how people were going about this game. If you want more on that I did have at least one full post earlier In terms of SRMP in particular I didn't think what he was saying in that conversation was necessarily scummy but they way he went about pretty much everything definitely was.
I am curious about why we lynched so early when we could have probably still used the rest of the day? Maybe figured out more about who's scum so we weren't starting D2 not much farther in than we started D1?
@AzoriusSenate
why hammer so early?
We were getting nowhere with that day so I hammered. I think it might have been less efficient to hammer that early but I don't think the time we would have used would have been productive at all,.
So i've reread D1 and looking at hiplops post coming from confirmed town and I think he might have been killed because he was the only one scumreading Belisarius.
: I'll check it later, thanks for pointing it. Kinda odd this game gathers so many of what's supposed to be a rare type (~3%).
@ All Canadians: Your musical discussions went completely over my head, so: any good metal Canadian bands?
@All experienced players: What's your suggested method of keeping track of what's going on? Do you take notes, and how?
I tend to take notes in a google spreadsheet. I put in any claims/hints/reads the people have been strong on, and make a new one for each day. Then by endgame I have an assortment of data that can help pinpoint lies/strange changes in position
The best way to get people to crack is with pressure, so I do recommend you vote the people you find scummy. Votes can be changed whenever you want, might as well make scum squirm with pressure.
Day 1 usually starts with random vote stage where a bunch of votes/crazy stuff happens as you try to push for scummy behavior via the power of pressure.
Example: Belisarius' strange answer to my scum question + lack of participation in RVS. That combo to me coming from an SE wreaks of scum.
That and I don't like his opening post today. Seems lazy and not really trying to figure anything out. VOTE: Belisarius
: those posts you mentioned were from before you arrived, were discussed at the time, and resulted from a misunderstanding of sorts. Hiplop got suspicious of Belisarius because he didn't notice Belisarius' vote in RVS, as he admits later (post 58).
Please notice I'm just saying I disagree
with that specific theory
. Belisarius is one of my nullreads and one of two players I find hardest to read. I want to see where this goes, in case my #1 suspicion is wrong.
We were getting nowhere with that day so I hammered. I think it might have been less efficient to hammer that early but I don't think the time we would have used would have been productive at all,.
Which is it?
"There is nothing more ironic or contradictory than life itself"... R.D.
In post 107, AzoriusSenate wrote:Another point to be made is that they really are useless. At this point we should all have people we do and don't want to lynch today. Putting everything on the table for scum to see is unnecessary and could lead to them gaining an advantage. Plus, it's very early in the game so reads should absolutely not be set in stone.
In post 252, AzoriusSenate wrote:So i've reread D1 and looking at hiplops post coming from confirmed town and I think he might have been killed because he was the only one scumreading Belisarius.
this doesn't sit right either?
"There is nothing more ironic or contradictory than life itself"... R.D.
now that SRMP has flipped town what do you think? considering you didn't consider him scum.....
and if you didn't think he was scum who did you think was scum at the time, or still think is scum? considering you did not have a vote in place and you really only voted twice, once in RVS for me and once for Hiplop?
I didn't think SMRP was scum, but he was my best guess for scum. (I mentioned it in 189, but it was spoilered.) If I start with the assumption that you're scum, your conversation with SMRP makes a lot more sense to me. However, that's pretty much the definition of confirmation bias. One problem I've had with your posts is that I tend to read them way early in the morning, think about what they say while I'm at work, come up to a conclusion, and then reread it when I get home and see something that I totally missed that invalidates my argument.
FYI (and everyone else's), I'll be limited to phone posts for the next 40-44 hours or so -- my mom's having surgery tomorrow and I'm taking a couple of days off to help her out during recovery. I don't need to take V/LA, but original research and deep reads will have to wait for a couple of days.
In post 260, Smudger wrote:after my last game this one is a comparative nursing home for activity..... yawn
so to liven it up I think that scum sits somewhere here Bluebird/Kim/Azorious
Yeah, a bit disappointed here too. There's lots of things of analyze and check, there should be some more debate going on.
Bluebird is a possibility, yes. I didn't pay her much attention on Day 1, because anyone SRMP wanted to vote was almost automatically off-limits, but there are some things that just don't fit, you know?
Kim, I'm not sure about. It'd take a reread to be sure, but I don't remember him doing much scumhunting. Could be a problem in his logic shtick, that makes him overanalyze and see possible WIFOM everywhere.
My suspects list includes Belisarius. Same as Kim, he's hard to read. Could be a townie who prefers to stay in a corner and watch people without drawing much attention to himself.
AzoriusSenate? Probably town. Same as you - overall pro-town behavior of investigating, trying to stir the game when there's not much going on.
For completeness' sake, MrCurlyNoodles is possibly town, though I wish he'd participate more, just to be sure.
TL;DR version, from least to most suspicious:
{AzoriusSenate / Smudger}
{MrCurlyNoodles}
{Belisarius / Kim}
{Bluebird}
I'd like to ask why everyone is suspicious of me. I'm reading my name at the top of everyone's lists, but nobody's giving any reasons.
I'm still looking at Belisarius, Kim, Azorius, and Smudger. I'm completely convinced Smudger is scum, but I'm still reasoning out the others.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
-The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
We were getting nowhere with that day so I hammered. I think it might have been less efficient to hammer that early but I don't think the time we would have used would have been productive at all,.
In post 107, AzoriusSenate wrote:Another point to be made is that they really are useless. At this point we should all have people we do and don't want to lynch today. Putting everything on the table for scum to see is unnecessary and could lead to them gaining an advantage. Plus, it's very early in the game so reads should absolutely not be set in stone.
In post 252, AzoriusSenate wrote:So i've reread D1 and looking at hiplops post coming from confirmed town and I think he might have been killed because he was the only one scumreading Belisarius.
this doesn't sit right either?
You townread Bel? I'd like to hear your evaluation of my logic other than "it doesn't sit right".
: Can't speak for the others, but here's why I'm suspicious of you: your case on Smudger is odd. If you believe SRMP's lynch was masterminded by scum, a more logical act would be to accuse me of being behind it, not him, since I played a more direct role. Yes, they had that horrendous series of quote walls back and forth. After a while, I only skimmed those posts briefly, and probably others did the same. They made SRMP look bad, granted, but it's not as if he needed much help doing that. But while Smudger pressed SRMP, I was persuading the other players.
Don't believe me? Let's check the non-Smudger votes on SRMP.
Spoiler: First, hiplop votes SRMP, for reasons unrelated to Smudger:
In post 69, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:For now, VOTE: Kim, while I think bluebird is scummier, I feel this is a more important lynch to discuss. Not saying you shouldn't discuss the bluebird lynch though.
I like you. I buy your reasoning for bluebird, I really do. This vote is NOT good. In fact, VOTE: some random mafia player. This to me reads as a bus (read: throwing his partner under the bus). A new wagon of sorts forms on bluebird, you agree, go on with the momentum...and vote someone completely different? That does NOT read natural to me in the slightest. This seems like you're scared to join the blooming bluebird wagon too early in case it has ramifications on the rest of your game. This sort of mindset is commonly indicative of scum.
Spoiler: Later, I vote SRMP. Please check the bolded part, where it says the SRMP-Smudger fight isn't that important:
's (lack of) formatting makes his posts a pain to analyze.
The TL;DR version, to quote
Smudger
, is:
In post 151, Smudger wrote:
"But lest look at your content so far...on the whole so far your responses are scummy. you are not consistent, you are raging and not actually saying anything that makes sense let alone points to anything of substance."
@
Everyone
, opinions, please. More specifically, either persuade me my case is nonsense or prepare to lend your votes. There are other things deserving investigation, and we still have time to start looking into them before the Day ends, but this is important.
A caveat that must be mentioned: his fight with Smudger is a big mess of text walls and I didn't go too deeply into it, partly because it's still going. But the rest should suffice. There's a pattern of inconsistency and throwing wild accusations around.
[...]
Spoiler: Then, MrCurlyNoodles votes, specifically agreeing with my earlier post:
That was maybe the most well put together post I've seen all game, especially once people started debating Just wanted to give you a congrats on the formatting, with the drop downs and everything, it was super easy to read and understand and the writing was super solid too. I'm just overall super impressed
Compliments aside, I don't think what you're saying is nonsense, in fact it's pretty much exactly what I've been thinking just put together better. I was/still am unsure if it's all definitively indicative of scum or just a really reactive personality who's new to the game and isn't playing town very well, a stance that I can sympathize with since I don't know if I'm helping the town as much as I could be either (though I'm not throwing accusations left and right and muddling the page with quite as much spam ). That being said I will join you and VOTE: Some Random Mafia Player because at this point I almost feel like it would help the town either way. That sounds kind of rude but I don't know how else to put it. Everything you put in your post is pretty much exactly what I've been noticing which is either very scummy or very unhelpful for town. Either way I believe it deserves my vote.
Spoiler: AzoriusSenate joins the wagon, partly persuaded by me, partly by SRMP's weird play:
In post 184, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:actually, eh i can self hammer, but I don't feel like breaking the rules, just hammer me and let me join other games (stuck with only 1 game is boring af, I would rather get lynched d1 in 10 games at once )
This is awful.
UNVOTE: Bluebird
Intent to hammer. Claim.
[/quote]
I also tried to convince other people to either join the wagon, debunk the case on SRMP or provide an alternative (eg, post 177, post 179, post 200).
Finally, hiplop briefly unvoted SRMP, uncertain whether he was scum or upset town. Remember why he decided on scum and voted on him once again? Post 204: because hiplop scumread you and you defended SRMP.
Therefore, out of the 4 non-Smudger votes, I have direct responsibility for my own, helped convince for MrCurlyNoodles and AzoriusSenate's and tried my best to persuade everyone else. You, indirectly, convinced hiplop. Nowhere does Smudger play a decisive role in this. That's why you suspecting him for that makes me somewhat suspicious of you in turn.
I'd like to ask why everyone is suspicious of me. I'm reading my name at the top of everyone's lists, but nobody's giving any reasons.
I'm still looking at Belisarius, Kim, Azorius, and Smudger. I'm completely convinced Smudger is scum, but I'm still reasoning out the others.
I've admitted that my suspicion of you is based on the initial defensive reaction, which is not necessarily alignment-indicative, and that's why I'd rather lynch Kim. The rest is PoE, although I don't know what to think of Az's attack on me today. I townread hiplop for doing the exact same thing -- literally the exact same reasoning -- but Az knows that. If it's an attempt by scum to get a townread, it's a shitty one, but a townie just putting a lot of lead in the air to see what sticks would probably come up with something more unique, so I can't really grok where it's coming from.
I also don't like the fact that I keep forgetting that Curly is in this game, so your hold on the #2 slot on my hit list is pretty shaky.
I'd be hesitant to even consider Witch, he was towny as fuck Yesterday, and I doubt scum-Witch would permit the hiplop kill after the way he, hip, and Smudger had their heads together yesterday. A 3-man "townbloc" containing scum would be a hell of a powerful tool with 4 needed to lynch...hell, I'd probably fall in with them if they worked together today like they did yesterday, and then scum would effectively control the lynch D2.
You won't convince me that Smudger is scum this game. I've tried to fake the kind of passion that was behind his attack on SRMP yesterday and it's not easy. I can't do it.
We were getting nowhere with that day so I hammered. I think it might have been less efficient to hammer that early but I don't think the time we would have used would have been productive at all,.
In post 107, AzoriusSenate wrote:Another point to be made is that they really are useless. At this point we should all have people we do and don't want to lynch today. Putting everything on the table for scum to see is unnecessary and could lead to them gaining an advantage. Plus, it's very early in the game so reads should absolutely not be set in stone.
In post 252, AzoriusSenate wrote:So i've reread D1 and looking at hiplops post coming from confirmed town and I think he might have been killed because he was the only one scumreading Belisarius.
this doesn't sit right either?
You townread Bel? I'd like to hear your evaluation of my logic other than "it doesn't sit right".
currently yes I do read him town, but that is not my point. My point is you state that read lists should not be set in stone, which I read to mean you don't read into the much then you vote Bel because he was on an early read list list. Is that your only case?
as for the Hammer before claim question, I retract, I didn't connect "villy" to town and it had gone from my mind...
"There is nothing more ironic or contradictory than life itself"... R.D.
Sorry I've been so inactive guys, I've just been really busy this week so I keep going on and reading through what's happening and then getting caught up in other stuff or falling asleep because it's super late (like rn its just past 3 AM :S) and then forgetting to post my thoughts the next day. I'll try to be more active going forward.
Honestly right now I'm really unsure about who anyone is, aside from Witch who I also read as town (side note: If he's scum we'd be in a lot of trouble cause i think we all read him as town That being said I reeeeeeally don't see that happening). All I have is gut feelings and very little evidence to back them up. Everyone in my eyes has done some slightly sketchy stuff, but nothing sketchy enough for me to think they're scum. I know being neutral is boring and useless but right now that's where I stand. I feel like there's a lot of unfounded accusations and a lot of legitimate ones as well. If you had to ask who I was most suspicious of, right now it would be a tie between Bluebird and Azorius, because I feel as if both their accusations and, in Azorius' case votes, feel the most unfounded and diversionary. That being said they don't feel that scummy and I could probably be convinced of their stances if they gave some more arguments/evidence.
On that subject, just for clarity of facts
@AzoriusSenate
I also scumread Belisarius for most of the beginning of the day, though that, by my own admission and much like this post, was mostly gut feeling. But yeah, hiplop wasn't the only one, I in fact even voted Bel for a while. That being said, hiplop is obviously a much bigger target being the IC so I see where you're coming from, though he'd probably have been the target no matter what.
In terms of SRMP in particular I didn't think what he was saying in that conversation was necessarily scummy but they way he went about pretty much everything definitely was.
)
