Newbie 1676 | Hungarian Nóták | Endgame

[Smudger]

you know what... I'm going to do this

VOTE: Belisarius

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.05 Csendül a nóta

I can't English today but maybe you understand it anyway.

Csendül a nóta, perdül a lány,
Most ide húzd a fülembe cigány!
Nyírfa vonódból a szív dala szól,
Indul a föld is a talpam alól.
Harmat csillog ezüstös levelen,
Ezt a barnát magamnak nevelem.
Hajt is a szóra, a jóra szívesen,
Holtomiglan a gondját viselem!

Májusok esti sóhaja kél,
Összesímul a virág s a levél.
Illatos, édes az alkonyi táj,
Kis csalogánynak a szíve, de fáj!
Harmat csillog ezüstös levelen,
Ezt a barnát magamnak nevelem.
Hajt is a szóra, a jóra szívesen,
Holtomiglan a gondját viselem!

The nóta is quieting, the girl is twirling,
Play now into my ear, Roma!
The heart's song sings from your birch bow,
The world sets off under my soles.
Dew shines on silvery leaves,
I take this brownhaired one to myself.
Bends to the word, to the good happily,
I'll care for hir until my death!

May evening sighs raise,
The flower and leaves smooth together.
Scented, sweet, the dusk landscape,
Little nightinggale's heart, oh it hurts!
Dew shines on silvery leaves,
I take this brownhaired one to myself.
Bends to the word, to the good happily,
I'll care for hir until my death!

lynching

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or no lynch.

Belisarius

(L-2): AzoriusSenate, Smudger

Not voting

(5): Belisarius, Bluebird, Kim, MrCurlyNoodles, Witch_Hunter

, Smudger

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[Witch_Hunter]

@ Smudger

: What's with the change of mind? Is there a method to AzoriusSenate's madness after all, or do you just want to see where this goes?

[Smudger]

@ Smudger

: What's with the change of mind? Is there a method to AzoriusSenate's madness after all, or do you just want to see where this goes?

I think we should go with it

[Kim]

oh Ok. you never asked me why I asked that question ["Kim what would you think of two players who appear to use the same terms of phrase or mention a particular observation? Almost as if one is parroting the other?"]? anyway I did because of this ....

Every time* I've played with a town Smudger, he's subbed out. He hasn't subbed out of this game. Therefore, he's scum. Easy peasy!

As I have stated earlier, I scumread you because your stats indicate that you subbed out of every game that you were town, one entry notwithstanding. Also,

your

conversation with SRMP was what convinced us to lynch.

My post was an RVS joke, with the asterisk indicating I was using one game as a basis. That could have been the post that convinced her to check your history; if it was, I wouldn't view it as suspicious. She also used that terminology in 199 in the "My Opinions" spoiler.

Short version: I'm not convinced SRMP is scum.

I am not convinced SRMP is mafia

I thought some more about this just now and realized Bluebird and I are both answering the same question and echoing its wording (italicizing mine, bolding in original):

@

Kim, Bluebird, AzoriuSenate

, what about you?

Convinced

or not? If

convinced

, please state intent to hammer, but

don't vote before he has a chance to claim

, please.

Neither of these pairs strike me as abnormal. I stand by my earlier thoughts in 298.

[Bluebird]

@Bluebird

please state the reason for your FOS/scum read

As I have stated earlier, I scumread you because your stats indicate that you subbed out of every game that you were town, one entry notwithstanding. Also,

your

conversation with SRMP was what convinced us to lynch.

@

Bluebird

: Let me check one thing here - are you just talking about yesterday, or do you still scumread Smudger right now?

I was talking about yesterday. I'm not really scumreading him anymore, though I still have some reservations. It was stupid of me to not research in depth, but it seemed a legitimate reason to me until the faults were pointed out.

Spoiler:

@ Bluebird

: Can't speak for the others, but here's why I'm suspicious of you: your case on Smudger is odd. If you believe SRMP's lynch was masterminded by scum, a more logical act would be to accuse me of being behind it, not him, since I played a more direct role. Yes, they had that horrendous series of quote walls back and forth. After a while, I only skimmed those posts briefly, and probably others did the same. They made SRMP look bad, granted, but it's not as if he needed much help doing that. But while Smudger pressed SRMP, I was persuading the other players.

I also tried to convince other people to either join the wagon, debunk the case on SRMP or provide an alternative (eg, post 177, post 179, post 200).

Finally, hiplop briefly unvoted SRMP, uncertain whether he was scum or upset town. Remember why he decided on scum and voted on him once again? Post 204: because hiplop scumread you and you defended SRMP.

Therefore, out of the 4 non-Smudger votes, I have direct responsibility for my own, helped convince for MrCurlyNoodles and AzoriusSenate's and tried my best to persuade everyone else. You, indirectly, convinced hiplop. Nowhere does Smudger play a decisive role in this. That's why you suspecting him for that makes me somewhat suspicious of you in turn.

Ah. I thought that Smudger had a larger part. It could have been confirmation bias, but I thought that his conversation with SRMP was aimed at making SRMP look Mafia, as I have stated before. Some of the players appeared to be influenced at least a little bit, like you.

As for hiplop being influenced by me- that was not my intention. I didn't think that me defending him would be a reason for her second vote on SRMP, but that's an oversight on my part. I thought SRMP was town, and I said that.

If someone's serious voting on page 2, I want to know why.

who me or the other serious vote on page two?

Bluebird you never chased this, or responded to my question, why?

I thought it was obvious, but I meant both of them. I never chased it because I thought the reasoning had been explained.

[Kim]

@ Smudger

: What's with the change of mind? Is there a method to AzoriusSenate's madness after all, or do you just want to see where this goes?

I think we should go with it

Let's.

VOTE: Belisarius

*** L-1 ***

[Witch_Hunter]

@ Smudger

: What's with the change of mind? Is there a method to AzoriusSenate's madness after all, or do you just want to see where this goes?

I think we should go with it

Very well, let's go with it. I'll trust your read of the situation is the right one.

@ Belisarius:

Stating intent to hammer. Please claim. And share any helpful last thoughts, just in case you flip town.

[Belisarius]

I'm a VT.

Scumteam stands as Kim and Bluebird. Curly's play today is town.

[Witch_Hunter]

VOTE: Belisarius

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.06 Csitt babám jaj de jó volt az este

Csitt, babám! Jaj de jó volt az este,
Hej, mikor csókot adtál a kertbe'.
Jaj de jó volt, hogy megcsaltál,
Rózsa helyett csókot adtál,
Kettő helyett hármat adtál az este!

Csitt, babám! Nekünk ütött az óra,
Hej, mikor térünk már nyugovóra,
Nékem adott a Teremtő,
Gyermek is lesz, egy vagy kettő,
Így válik a reménységünk valóra.

Hush, baby! Oh how good the evening was,
Hey, when you gave a kiss in the garden.
Oh how good it was when you tricked me,
Instead of a rose, you gave me a kiss,
Instead of two, you gave three this evening!

Hush, baby! The clock has struck for us,
Hey, when are we going to sleep already,
The Creator gave to me,
there will be a child, one or two,
That's how our hopes become real.

lynching

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or no lynch.

Belisarius

(L-0): AzoriusSenate, Smudger, Kim, Witch_Hunter

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Not voting

(3): Belisarius, Bluebird,

Kim

, MrCurlyNoodles,

Witch_Hunter

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!

[Plotinus]

Anyám, édesanyám

Anyám, édesanyám, dallal köszönöm,
Boldog ifjúságom, felnőtt örömöm.
Köszönöm, hogy mindig édesanya voltál,
Köszönöm a dalt, amellyel álomba ringattál, álomba dúdoltál.

Anyám, hogyha dalol, minden muzsikál,
Mint mikor a hárfa bársony hangja száll.
Dalolj édesanyám, úgy mint réges-régen.
Mindannyian azt kívánjuk:véget sose érjen, anyám soká éljen.

Mother, my mother, I thank you with a song,
For my happy youth, my adult joy.
I think you for always being mother,
I think you the song, with which you rocked me to sleep, hummed me to sleep.

Mother when she sings always makes music,
As when the harp's velvety voice flies.
Sing mother, that way you sang long ago.
We all want this: that it never ends, that mother lives for a long time.

---

Belisarius

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Mafia goon.

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[Plotinus]

Egy ősz hajú asszony

Az édesanyámnak a haja fehér, mint a hó,
Oly hajlott, oly megtört, oly szent, oly önfeláldozó.
A legjobb falatot a szájától vonta meg,
Nőttek a gyerekek, de ő közben megöregedett.

Egy őszhajú asszony a kabátkája csupa folt,
Mert egyetlen kincse a fia mosolygása volt.
Ó mily koldus és árva vagy nélküle,
Mert őt pótolni nem tudja senki sem.
Ezt a jószívű őszhajú asszonyt,
Az egyetlen édesanyát.

Gyorsan csókold meg elfáradt homlokát!
Nem a sírjára kell néki száz virág!
Addig gondozzad, ápoljad, óvjad,
Az egyetlen édesanyát!

My mother's hair is white as snow,
So bent, so broken, so saint, so self-sacrificing.
She kept the best bites from her mouth,
The children grew up, but meanwhile she grew old.

A whitehaired woman, her little coat is full of patches,
Because her only treasure was her son's smile.
Oh, how beggarly and orphanly you are without her,
Because nobody can replace her.
This goodhearted white haired woman,
The only mother.

Quickly kiss her tired forehead!
It's not her grave that needs 100 flowers!
Until then care for her, nurse her, protect her,
The only mother!

---

AzoriusSenate

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Tracker.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 3.00 Csitt csak rózsám

Csitt csak, rózsám, hallod, micsoda régi nótát hallok?
Sej, haj, dínomdánom, de csuda csárdást penget az én prímásom!
Hopp hát rózsám, járjad! Perdüljön táncra táncos lábad.
Ég a talpam, tudd meg, míg ez a banda járja, dehogy halunk meg!

Húzd rá prímás, betyár a kedvem!
Sarkantyú peng, a szoknya lebben,
Perdülj, fordulj karomba párom,
Ezt a csuda csárdást rogyásig járom.

Hush my rose, do you hear what an old nóta I hear?
Oh, oh, what a wonderful csárdás is twanging the 1st violinist!
Jump, then, my rose, do it! Let your dancy feet twirl into dance.
My soles are burning, know that, while this band plays, but we won't die!

Play it, 1st violinist, I'm in a rascal mood!
Spurs jingling, the skirt flutters,
Spin, twist in my arms, my partner,
This wondrous csárdás dance I'll dance it until I'm pockmarked.

lynching

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch or no lynch.

everybody

(L-3): nobody

Not voting

(5): Bluebird, Kim, MrCurlyNoodles, Witch_Hunter, Smudger

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[Kim]

Azorius was a

tracker

? I was like 99% sure he was a cop who investigated me, got a Town result, and switched from me to Bel based on Bel's case on me. That was all I could think of that explained both his Day 1 and Day 2 posts.

I was anticipating being all but confirmed town, so I'll need a little time to figure out how best to act. (Also, I'll need sleep, which I'll try to get after this post.)

[Smudger]

I was anticipating being all but confirmed town, so I'll need a little time to figure out how best to act. (Also, I'll need sleep, which I'll try to get after this post.)[/quote]

how? its clear and was clear to me what Azorious was after his post that promoted me to go with his case on Bel, its clear from his statement here

As far as other lynch candidates if Bel was dead, I'm looking at Witch and I'm looking at Smudger.

That he was either the cop or tracker and had something on Bel.

so your thought process is a little lacking in its completion.

plus this

I'm a VT.

Scumteam stands as Kim and Bluebird. Curly's play today is town.

does not exonerate you in my mind


VOTE: Kim

[Smudger]

need to correct that the tags are wrong

Azorius was a

tracker

? I was like 99% sure he was a cop who investigated me, got a Town result, and switched from me to Bel based on Bel's case on me. That was all I could think of that explained both his Day 1 and Day 2 posts.

how? its clear and was clear to me what Azorious was after his post that promoted me to go with his case on Bel, its clear from his statement here

As far as other lynch candidates if Bel was dead, I'm looking at Witch and I'm looking at Smudger.

That he was either the cop or tracker and had something on Bel.

so your thought process is a little lacking in its completion.

plus this

I'm a VT.

Scumteam stands as Kim and Bluebird. Curly's play today is town.

does not exonerate you in my mind


VOTE: Kim

[/quote]

[Smudger]

So i've reread D1 and looking at hiplops post coming from confirmed town and I think he might have been killed because he was the only one scumreading Belisarius.

this also would, in hindsight, direct you to think what? Its clear to me it directed Az to look at Bel N1... he didn't change his view on Kim at all, he just focused on Bel probably because Bel was tracked to Hiplops door by Az.

so for me today its Kim...

[MrCurlyNoodles]

Admittedly I totally forgot there was anything except vanilla town and maf in this game so that was legitimately unexpected. Looking back that makes a lot of sense though Now I feel dumb. Well sweet, one down one to go ladies and gents. Though we're also down a tracker which is rough.

@Smudger

Remind me of the case on Kim? Is it any different than the case on D1 from Bel and Hiplop?

[Smudger]

thats a good question Curly and its all to do with perception of how things have transpired. I really didn't have much of a case on Kim other than gut and possibly a subconscious lean based on my misguided belief that Bel was town, until of course I grabbed hold of what Az was in fact saying end of D2.

so let us go back in time, after the RVS D1 the first vote Bel threw out was on Kim and he in fact stated it was serious vote, remember this?

Spoiler:

Bel (can I call you Bel?) shouldn't need my help defending himself

No, I don't

UNVOTE: bluebird

VOTE: Kim

Serious vote.

now commonly scum will attempt to distance themselves from each other early in a game, and Bel is an experienced player, so when I put all the pieces together this begins to stand out. You could argue it was just a vote but then this sticks out. Its Bels reason to vote Kim,

Spoiler:

I'm not voting Kim for white knighting, per se. I'm voting him for saying that he thought something might come from hiplop's vote on me, while trying to interfere with it by pooh-poohing it.

I'm also not happy about Kim pointing out "factually incorrect grounds", but that's mainly because I wanted to see how long it would take hiplop to realise it on his own.

it's pretty weak

and then this, this is a post to throw us all off Kim,

Spoiler:

I'm not getting a Kim lynch today, am I?

I find the Smudger/SRMP interaction intriguing, but I'm not prepared to commit a vote at this time.

I'd like to hear more from Azorious and Noodles. You two are big fat question marks for me, and that makes me nervous.

now you remember the line about there was something about Kim that made Bel think he was scum, but he couldn't put his finger on it? he stated it early D1 then again here

Spoiler:

FMPOV, nothing has changed since Yesterday. I can't pull any useful information from the SRMP lynch since it was basically unanimous.

I still want to lynch either Kim or Bluebird, and my brain's still being an asshole about letting me remember what it was that made me so sure Kim's scum.

well I pushed him on it and he still couldn't remember, do you know what I now think the answer to that question from Bel was? (if you cant I will get back to it later).

anyway, there was something else about Kim that bugged me and it was to do with his view on SRMP. he didn't vote SRMP and even stated that he felt he was town, now why would that be a scum tell. Well, Kim has a few games under his belt and I think he realizes the value as scum to throw people off his scent by scoring town points. whats the best way of doing that? Stating someone who is town, because as Scum you would know that, is town even when their play is scummy and erratic enough to have the majority of players voting them, in fact he didnt even have a vote in place at the time, I questioned him on it, here

Spoiler:

@ Kim,

now that SRMP has flipped town what do you think? considering you didn't consider him scum.....

and if you didn't think he was scum who did you think was scum at the time, or still think is scum? considering you did not have a vote in place and you really only voted twice, once in RVS for me and once for Hiplop?

look at his votes he has stayed away from the main candidates and has voted town players, Hiplop who is dead and me, yes I am town and yes I know you have no way of knowing that, but I am. His argument may well be that he hammered Bel, so? thats called a bus and he did it to attempt to ensure his survival today. he never even questioned me as to why he just went ahead and hammered.

then there is this from AzoriusSenate

Spoiler:

(I get pulled away from the computer often when I'm at work. I started this post before Belisarius' 181, but it's likely moot now.)

But just from reading the thread when he arrived, he must have noticed that's not the way we're playing. It could be culture shock, but even if this explains his posts' disorganization, I don't think it also explains his inconsistent, defensive playstyle.

Agreed with the last part -- the defensiveness seems more like a newbie thing, but if he's* got experience in chat mafia, it doesn't seem like that would be an issue.

*Is SRMP a "he"? I might have overlooked where they said that; anyway, I'm going to assume they are for the rest of this post, at any rate.

However, it's possible that he's just trying to play in the way that seems natural to him. I know some people have viewed my posts as too calculated and viewed that as scummy in pretty much every game I've played so far.

What I got from the SRMP-Smudger fight boils down to "Smudger pressures SRMP to get a reaction, SRMP freaks and makes a very unconvincing case on Smudger". Not damning by itself, but part of an overall behavior that is, at least, anti-town.

I need to start hydra-ing so I can talk with other people about stuff like that. For now, suffice it to say that I disagree with some of that.

While Bluebird and AzoriuSenate don't show up: let's suppose you stay unconvinced. Who do you want lynched today? Belisarius (who isn't convinced either) wants either you or Bluebird. What do you suggest?

I will say that SMRP is the scummiest player to me, but I'd only put the probability that he's scum at around 40 or 45 percent. I guess that's about 20 or 27 on your scum meter. If Plotinus secretly PM'd me and said SMRP was town, I'm not sure where my vote would go. Assuming nothing else of note happened until the deadline (

at which time I'll be unavailable, BTW

), I'd be okay with voting for whichever null player has the most votes -- I would try to be as open as possible about the fact that that was what I was doing, so hopefully I wouldn't be viewed as scummy for doing so.

@AzoriusSenate

: Are you really going to FOS me for not being convinced a theoretical town!SRMP is scum? That seems backwards. I'd assume you would FOS me (or worse) if he flipped scum, so you could save some time and just FOS me now if 188 is accurate. (I'm leaving out the case where we don't lynch SMRP, but I don't see that happening now.)

The reason I would FOS you if he flips town is very simple and i'm starting to fos you more for not really thinking about it. More than likely SMRP is going to be lynched today so at this point it would be a good time for scum to "townread" SMRP if he actually is town. This gives scum towncred when he flips town. I don't think an actual townie would speak up to randomly defend someone who is likely to be lynched unless they are CERTAIN they are town.

and that brings us full circle to this

Spoiler:

I'm a VT.

Scumteam stands as Kim and Bluebird. Curly's play today is town.

what do you get when reading this? bearing in mind everything else I have outlined? and then of course there is his opening post here D3

Spoiler:

Azorius was a

tracker

? I was like 99% sure he was a cop who investigated me, got a Town result, and switched from me to Bel based on Bel's case on me. That was all I could think of that explained both his Day 1 and Day 2 posts.

I was anticipating being all but confirmed town, so I'll need a little time to figure out how best to act. (Also, I'll need sleep, which I'll try to get after this post.)

that just screams scum

Oh and unless you haven't figured out this

Spoiler:

There's also something else right on the tip of my tongue, but I've been trying to draw it out for days and it's being a stubborn git.

It's because they share day talk

[Witch_Hunter]

@ Smudger

: Question to you as SE, what was the point of AzoriusSenate's play yesterday? I can understand a PR claiming to get a lynch, or making good accusations to drive a wagon and stay incognito, but not his

apparently

lunatic playstyle. Is that a good way to play cop/tracker, or just due to his inexperience?

[Witch_Hunter]

@ Smudger

: Your post 269 is pretty good and does seem to make sense. I'll have to read Belisarius and Kim's ISOs myself to be sure, though.

[Witch_Hunter]

EBWOP: Your post 369...

[Witch_Hunter]

Azorius was a

tracker

? I was like 99% sure he was a cop who investigated me, got a Town result, and switched from me to Bel based on Bel's case on me. That was all I could think of that explained both his Day 1 and Day 2 posts.

Sorry, I don't see it - why would Azorius townreading you lead to him pushing Belisarius' wagon so hard? It's not as if he were the only one to state doubts* about your alignment.

*In Belisarius' case, "doubts".

[Smudger]

Azorius was trying not draw attention to the fact he was the tracker and I would put it down the fact he was not sure that the Doctor is in the game, which I will come back to. Trouble is when he made the post that opened my eyes to why he was pushing Bel's lynch it was seen by Bel. So Bel's last action in the scum thread was probably to leave instructions on killing Az.

It is always a challenge in this setup to claim, in particular D1 when you, as a cop or tracker, have information that will secure a scum lynch but don't know if there is a doctor in the game etc.

So Az played how he felt best and it may well be down to his experience that he seemed "lunatic" as you put it, but remember of course that I suggested it as "frustrated town" when we discussed this D2. The thing is Az ensured the lynch and put us in a better position. Do not forget that he wanted to obviously follow you or I, and I can see why.

now if there is a Doc in the game, and please if there is do not out!! its a pity that Az was missed by "you".. but its all to do with learning and if there is one, next time look for things that point you in the direction of other PRs, basically what are called crumbs, and judge your night actions on those.