Newbie 1676 | Hungarian Nóták | Endgame

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 3.04 Egy cica két cica száz cica jaj

Egy cica, két cica, száz cica, jaj!
Kergeti az ici-pici egeret.
Kis Teca, Nagy Teca, Katica, haj!
Nem szeret mást, csak egyedül engemet.

Jaj, de szép kis állat a cica, a cica,
Hej, de még szebb lány a kis Teca, Katica.
Egy cica, két cica, száz cica, jaj!
Megfogta az ici-pici egeret.

One kitty, two kitties, a hundred kitties, oh!
Chasing the itsy bitsy mouse.
Little Katie, big Katie, Kate, oh!
Doesn't love anybody else just only me.

Oh what a pretty little animal is the kitty, the kitty,
Oh, but what an even prettier girl is little Katie, Kate.
One kitty, two kitties, a hundred kitties, oh!
Caught the itsy bitsy mouse.

lynching

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch or no lynch.

Kim

(L-2):

Smudger, Witch_Hunter

, MrCurlyNoodles

Witch_Hunter

(L-3): Kim

Not voting

(4): Bluebird,

MrCurlyNoodles,

Smudger, Witch_Hunter, Kim

D

e

a

d

l

i

n

e

:

(expired on 2016-02-11 14:00:00)

.

M

o

d

n

o

t

e

s

:

L

e

t

m

e

k

n

o

w

i

f

t

h

e

r

e

a

r

e

a

n

y

p

r

o

b

l

e

m

s

w

i

t

h

t

h

e

V

C

.

[Witch_Hunter]

So, please walk me through this: what scum motivation would I have to hammer Belisarius?

1) To get towncred by busing him. Smudger used this against me in his case: "His argument may well be that he hammered Bel, so? thats called a bus and he did it to attempt to ensure his survival today."

2) Like I said earlier, stating intent to hammer could also buy time for last-minute strategy by dissuading MCN and Blue from quickhammering to end the day. That was the only reason I could think of for you to wait for Bel to reach L-1 before stating intent to hammer; so, why did you wait?

Do MrCurlyNoodles and Bluebird really strike you as the sort of players prone to quickhammering an unclaimed L-1?
Why did I wait? Because, as I've been saying for a while (see below), I intended to hammer him after I figured out what was happening. And I could hardly do it if I voted him before he was at L-1.

@

Witch_Doctor

: Why did you lynch without giving MCN and Blue a chance to comment on what was happening?

Because the faster the lynch, the less time Belisarius and his scumbuddy would have to develop a strategy.

Long version: Smudger's post 353, where he refused to explain his change of heart, meant he couldn't say his reasons openly. What's the one thing town shouldn't talk openly about? Power roles. So, I figured Smudger seemed to think Azorius was a cop who had scumread Belisarius.

Rereading Azorius' posts, that explained his odd behavior, his fixation with Belisarius despite an apparent lack of arguments. Rereading other people's latest posts, it seemed Smudger was the only one to see it. Maybe Belisarius himself hadn't, considering the disdain he'd shown for Azorius' 'tunneling'.

So, lynching him ASAP might possibly save a cop's life. With all due respect to MrCurlyNoodles and Bluebird, I still believe it was a chance worth taking.

Speaking for myself only, had anyone else [besides Smudger] suddenly voted for Belisarius, after completely dismissing the "case" against him, and then refused to explain why, I'd probably not join the wagon. Or rather, probably would think it was a reaction test instead of taking it seriously.

Smudger wasn't completely townread -- Blue had him as scum, while MCN and I were null on him. Naturally, who you listen to depends on what you think of the player.

Yet you followed his vote too, so I don't see how this contradicts what I said about his having towncred.

[Witch_Hunter]

Well now we're back to zero :S Which is fairly unhelpful. This is a post on my thoughts right now to maybe get us away from zero.

No, this isn't early Day 2 all over again. We do have a lot of things to work with.
I still think the last scum is either Kim or Bluebird, and thus we should lynch one of them today and, if this fails, lynch the other tomorrow. But getting it right today would be much better.

It's only now I noticed you're not offering much here. Everyone's scummy but yourself. Alright, but surely you think some are more scummy than others? If it were entirely up to you, what's your lynching order?

Sorry for not offering much I absolutely agree and though that post was mostly made to get some conversation going I should've added more of my thoughts. In terms of what my lynching order was at the time: Kim, WH, Smudger, Bluebird for the reasons stated in the post you're referencing.

That's something already. Now, why do you scumread Smudger more than Bluebird? Has she done anything pro-town so far? Yet she's the towniest of us all, according to your list?

I noticed this and the reason I haven't voted yet is because, as I said above, the reason I ignored the 5% uncertainty is because I trusted you and Smudger's judgement. Now Smudger is rereading and possibly changing said judgement and you seem to have followed suit while my trust of you has gone down, partially because of Kim's case, partially because of your actions since then. My certainty that Kim is scum is not high enough for me to want to put them back at L1.

Fair enough.
/Off topic, theory talk: I don't think you literally meant 95% certainty, but that's about as good as it gets. If you're only willing to act when 100% sure, then you won't be doing much unless you're a cop or tracker.

Ok, Kim, you've done it. I'm actually starting to believe you're town who sincerely scumread me, instead of scum trying to set up a crazy counterwagon to save himself. That, or you took my comments about your passivity very seriously. Oh, you're still likely to be scum, but I'm not certain enough anymore.

UNVOTE:

Speaking of scummy seeming actions since then: case in point: this feels wrong. This post isn't how you've felt to me at all this game: most of the time you stayed behind your argument until a much better one came up or they had a pretty solid defence and, as you said above, if he's the scummiest person to you why not keep your vote on him? He's not at L1. Your sudden revelation at Kim's possible townness after this:

Well then, I suppose we both agree it is a flawed argument. You saw what Azorius was doing, but managed to somehow misinterpret the situation that badly? Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

and this:

That said - I believe you can see for yourself my play's been consistently pro-town and engaged in the thick of things. I believe you can see for yourself Kim's play is much more cautious and risk-adverse up to the moment his wagon got going today. I also believe Smudger's case on Kim is good, and Kim's case on me is a last attempt to save himself that hangs on forced interpretations.
If that's not the way you see things, feel free to ask questions. Otherwise, I've pretty much stated my view.

Also doesn't feel right. I'm not entirely sure he added anything more to his argument then bit of clarification and acceptance at some of his own flawed arguments. The sudden switch to him being "town that sincerely scumread you" feels like backing down and attempting to buddy after a possibly legitimate argument was put against you.

- He's still my strongest scumread, and I've been pretty direct about it. No buddying.
- The unvote is because I'm

less convinced

of his scumminess than before. Enough to make me doubt whether he should be lynched before Bluebird.
- His case against me is, let me say it again, nonsense. I've pointed that out to him, he openly admits it, yet he doubled down on it. I'm not quite certain whether that's scum grasping at straws or town tunneling. To repeat: probably the former, but maybe maybe the latter.

Taking all of this into account I trust WH less than i did before. If you want questions I don't really know if I have any, just these observations to how you've acted recently. That being said Kim is still the top of my scum list because ultimately I don't believe that his argument is correct. I think Witch's hammer was fine and logical and that's really the whole crux of the argument. WH's post above about how towny he's been all game, especially as opposed to Kim is correct in my opinion. His actions since then have seemed scummy to me, but in contrast Witch and Smudger's arguments agains't Kim still hold true. I'm now more like 70% sure Kim is scum and 28% sure Witch is scum. I leave the 2% for Smudger and Bluebird, Smudger because I still trust what they've done and Bluebird because it would be laaaaaaaame for the last scum to have just been afk pretty much all game. In response to my earlier question about who to vote if Kim is town, it's WH, and if both are killed and town probably Bluebird. Though I'd be uncomfortable with that lynch in general.

You acknowledge his case on me is crap, yet I'm your second option for a lynch? Damn you, Overton Window!
Ok, a slightly different order here, which makes a bit more sense. But my question of "what's so towny about Bluebird?" still stands.

[Witch_Hunter]

I also want to apologize for drunk posting. the series of posts where I continually state "Lynch Kim" or words to that effect I was drunk.

I take back what I said about your being grumpy.

[Witch_Hunter]

I have a question for everyone,

what is your take on MCN?

If Kim's town, I'd vote on Bluebird, basically for the reasons you mentioned. And also because, frankly, I hate the idea of losing to scum-Bluebird, with all the lurking she's done.
If both were dead and flipped town, it'd have to be one of my townreads. I'd vote you [MrCurlyNoodles] before voting Smudger, mostly because he's been way more active than you.

Probably town. Not very active, hasn't contributed much of the time, yet his posts overall look towny. Confused town who wants to contribute and doesn't quite know how to go about it, but town.

I've wondered whether he could be scum who participates just enough not to be seen as lurking, and contributes just enough not to draw attention to himself, but it's a fine line for newbie scum to walk. Simplest explanation, town.

[MrCurlyNoodles]

Now, why do you scumread Smudger more than Bluebird? Has she done anything pro-town so far? Yet she's the towniest of us all, according to your list?

Bluebird because it would be laaaaaaaame for the last scum to have just been afk pretty much all game

This is pretty much my whole reasoning. I'd hate for the last scum to be the one who did next to nothing all game so I'd rather believe it's not her. It's less that she's been towny and more that I really don't want her to be scum. She has no towncred or anything. I just really hope she's not scum.

[MrCurlyNoodles]

That being said I don't scum read Smudger more. At the end of my post I put them on the same level of wanting to lynch, with Smudger having much more of my trust.

[Witch_Hunter]

This is pretty much my whole reasoning. I'd hate for the last scum to be the one who did next to nothing all game so I'd rather believe it's not her. It's less that she's been towny and more that I really don't want her to be scum. She has no towncred or anything. I just really hope she's not scum.

That's... not a very good reason to townread someone.
I'm not implying anything about your alignment here, since you and Bluebird can't both be scum, and I can see no other possible scum motivation for that.

But seriously, that's really not a very good reason to townread someone.

[Witch_Hunter]

I've been thinking about MrCurlyNoodles' reads and about my own, and it leads to this:

VOTE: Bluebird

Reasoning:
1) Scum's overwhelmingly likely to be either Kim or Bluebird.
2) I'm really not sure about which one. Between Smudger's case on Kim and Bluebird's complete lack of towniness, it's hard to decide.
3) We have two shots at this: Today and, if necessary, Tomorrow.
4) If Bluebird is lynched Today and flips town, Day 4 will probably* be Kim + 2 townies. Townies lynch Kim, town wins.
5) But if Kim is lynched Today and flips town, Day 4 will probably* be Bluebird + 2 townies. If one of these townies is MrCurlyNoodles, it's possible he'll help lynch the other towny instead. Scum wins.
6) So, lynching Bluebird today is the surest way for a town win.**

Thoughts and votes, please.

* Since we still have one PR, it could be 3 townies instead, but planning for a worst case scenario is best.
** Yes, I'm fully aware this requires, besides getting Smudger's support, either a change of mind from MrCurlyNoodles (in such a case, it's a good lynch anyway) or a vote from Kim (town-Kim can be reasoned with, and scum-Kim can opportunistically help in hopes of a fighting chance Tomorrow). I'm still willing to try.

[Smudger]

I'm not willing to vote Bluebird today, I want to wait until I get answers from everyone on my question about MCN. I will though be mightily pissed if Bluebird continues to lurk and Kim, you need to get back in here and play thank you.

WH you seem to be a little perplexed?

[Bluebird]

I have a question for everyone,

what is your take on MCN?

I'm thinking he's town right now, based on the last few pages. It's more process of elimination-type reasoning - Witch Hunter is a bit suspicious. I was looking back, and I saw in Belisarius's last post, he said this:

I'm a VT.

Scumteam stands as Kim and Bluebird. Curly's play today is town.

I'm worried about the fact WH wasn't mentioned at all, really. The comment about Curly could probably be a red herring, and I'm not sure scum would've bussed.

[Bluebird]

I have a question for everyone,

what is your take on MCN?

I'm thinking he's town right now, based on the last few pages. It's more process of elimination-type reasoning - Witch Hunter is a bit suspicious. I was looking back, and I saw in Belisarius's last post, he said this:

I'm a VT.

Scumteam stands as Kim and Bluebird. Curly's play today is town.

I'm worried about the fact WH wasn't mentioned at all, really. The comment about Curly could probably be a red herring, and I'm not sure scum would've bussed.

What does everyone else think about Belisarius's post?

[Smudger]

Bluebird there were three players not mentioned in that post? what relevance is it that WH was not mentioned.

you of course know that Post is full of WIFOM and the actual meaning of it is clearly a debatable subject considering who are listed and what it may or may not tell us?

[Kim]

Kim, you need to get back in here and play thank you.

I know. I had some unexpected family events yesterday (went to my sister's for a cookout + NHL All-Star Game + helped her daughter play the new Tomb Raider) and had to wake up unconscionably early today (04:50, four hours earlier than usual), so I didn't read/write when I got home because it'd keep me from getting to sleep. I'll get back to things after work + commute, about 10 hours from now. (We'll be shorthanded at work, so I don't know how much I can post from there.)

I will say that about half of the reply to your long post to/against me will be something like "I believe you understand what I'm saying in my defense, but you just don't agree. I don't know what else I can say right now." I think I've said what I think about MCN, but I can elaborate on that more after work.

[Smudger]

ok, MrCurlyNoodles to me can be summarized up as:

nice long posts full of agreeable content, which on the whole gives me and probably everyone else a lovely warm feeling of a nice townie type person. I even said so myself here:

Spoiler:

Liking Curlynoodles right now.

So while I was waiting for Kim to come back and respond, which he has done in a way that makes me feel he has given up, I went and had a read, you can see some of the things I picked up on here

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

The absence of any Halifax bands on Kim's list offends me.

1. why is Bel so fixated on Kim, even with one of his first posts?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4) Logical posts that lead to a mislynch.

Isn't that

precisely

what scum would say? "Look, I may look really scummy, but I'm a townie. No, really!"
It could be just your personality, but it sounds suspicious.

5. I'm always scum, even when I'm town. That much hasn't changed

For the same reasons above, I don't like this much either.

2. is this the earliest catch of the game?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome, new people!

While I'm up (most of the time I can sleep through my phone vibrating when it gets this thread's subscription email, but not tonight, apparently)...

UNVOTE: hiplop for the reasons mentioned by Belisarius, Witch_Doctor, and him. Nobody else seems worthy of a vote at this hour.

EBWOP (edit by way of post): "deserves," not "seems worthy of."

why Kim did you think it necessary to change your wording?

would love some response to that btw.

Anyway

I started to notice a few things in MCNs ISO. for example as I have already said he seems very agreeable, yes on occasion he pushes from time to time, but not too much, not enough to bring him to the attention of all. Then there was something that I totally forgot about because of the SRMP D1 wagon and eventual lynch. you may recall this post:

Spoiler:

However, I am going to VOTE: mrcurlynoodles as I'm interested in your thoughts on the circumstances in this particular game. What are you feeling, currently?

Thanks for the advice about the quote thing this is pretty cool. And I actually did read/partially skim the guide and abbreviation page you posted and they were super helpful! The abbreviation page is probably the only way I'm still following along

Sorry for not posting that much I've been kind of busy but mostly I just haven't really known what to say. I think the whole discussion between Kim and Witch_Hunter seems like two people looking a little too much into things/reacting very strongly to each other but Kim's defensiveness is a little sketchy, though not sketchy enough for me to think he's scum. Also (thanks to the guide you posted) I realize that if he is town he should probably be just as defensive and his logic, for the most part, seemed fairly sound. Witch_Hunter's logic also seemed fairly rational, though perhaps a tad overzealous, and I found myself more on his side in terms of whether or not what you've done so far has been scummy (which your most recent post also helped with). Honestly even in real life I find it hard to judge anyone so early in the game (which I guess is the point of this RVS) but thanks to the discussion so far I feel as if you, Witch_Hunter and Kim are the most towny, though not enough for me to think any of you are confirmed town.

Out of the people who are actually talking so far the person that feels the scummiest is Belisarius and that's still only like 2% scum. At first I voted him as a joke because he said he was always scum, even when he was town (I'm not sure how to quote more things after having already quoted something without quoting the whole post), but his disregard of you voting him (despite it being on faulty grounds) and his quick, mostly unexplained vote change to Kim seemed a little out of place to me. Kim's logic about unexplained vote changes needing to be called out makes sense to me and applies to Belisarius as much as it did to you. So my vote stays with him for now.

Sorry for this wall of text I'm sure once I start posting more/get used to this format and how to quote things my posts will either be shorter or snazzier. But those are my thoughts for now.

and my question, based off the back of his comments on Belisarius

Spoiler:

have you questioned him on this? Belisarius is an experienced player, would you suspect him to have a reason for his actions? I often don't react to a vote that is placed on me, for varying reasons. if it is out of the blue then I consider it to see who else jumps onto the wagon, as it may well be a reaction test for other players. If it stays for a while and there is no explanation even after the voter continues posting in thread then of course I will speak up. As for a vote changing without explanation why does it make sense to you for it to be called out? I mean are there reasons someone might do this?

well I was going to pursue his answer a little more but didn't, its here (you may recall I had to prod him to answer)

Spoiler:

Sorry I totally meant to respond to these and then got sidetracked by the new players and then the whole read list discussion. I didn't question him, which was probably a mistake, but too late now. Mostly it was just a gut reaction to his first couple posts, as I've said before. I feel like the fact that it was a more serious accusation when we were still in RVS meant it warranted a response, even if said accusation was on faulty grounds. And then changing from his initial slight scum read on bluebird (the one you are all jumping on now) to Kim for no explained reason also feels wrong. No solid ground had been laid for Kim to be scum at the time, it was just a random vote, which then deferred the attention from Belisarius and Bluebird (the two people with actual scum accusations at the time) to Kim. While this may have actually been the right play since Bluebird has been mostly silent since then, to me it felt a little scummy. That being said, since then Belisarius has been fairly town all around since (though I still have my suspicions) and scummier acting players have come up, I let it drop.

The thing is it doesn't sit right with me and thats why I withdrew my intent to vote Kim. Well not so much that in isolation but the fact that he is agreeable and interacting without actually pushing people then there is this:

he was under suspicion on a few occasions

Spoiler:

This is a good, well thought out post. I still have some minor reservations on this slot overall, in particular the awkward read on Belisarius.

and

Spoiler:

I agree that no real town play is happening from Bel and that everyone is, and would be, still reevaluating their reads, as they should be; but my/our point about hiplop changing his read was less about him actually changing his read and more about why he changed his read. He realized he didn't have any evidence. His original point about Bel not RVSing was inaccurate as he did actually vote, hiplop just missed it, and realizing this he retracted his vote and moved on to greener pastures. This doesn't mean Bel isn't scum, he very well could be, but it's why we're all discounting your argument a bit and finding you scummy for pushing it so much. Even in this latest post you're pushing us very hard to vote for him without any real evidence and relying on an argument that was dropped for a solid reason. It's how much you're pushing that's scummy to me.

That being said

@Belisarius

any response to any of this?

That's a whole load of BS. Everyone knows that scumgame revolves around LURKING. I don't care if you write this off as WIFOM but everyone knows that if I'm mafia I'm dumb to tunnel on someone. This is a legitimate scumread and it isn't based on hiplop alone! It's based on my reads of that situation AND my reads on today. You're really pushing the narrative that my FOS on Bel is somehow unfounded and are discrediting it. At least, that's how I'm reading into this situation.

then there is my observation here,

Spoiler:

MrCurlyNoddles, do you ask questions?

which was written because, as I now recall, at the time it struck me he doesn't ask questions

The thing is he seems to avoid getting too caught up with Bel, maybe its just me. The times he has been pushed have been with regard to his indirect interaction or indeed lack of interaction with Bel. Then theres the end of D2, please go and look and let me know what you think? But then this

Spoiler:

That being said @Belisarius any response to any of this?

why is that important, well I can see why it might be by reading forward from that post. Therefore looking back it could possibly be ventured that Bel was not talking to Curly in Daytalk and Curly was trying to reach out to see if he was at least reading the thread?

then there's the defense:

Spoiler:

Let me make something very clear guys. The lynch IS going to be Bel today. Whether you guys accept that now is on you. If you accept it now it's going to be a lot easier on you later.

What is this?

As far as other lynch candidates if Bel was dead, I'm looking at Witch and I'm looking at Smudger.

What is THIS?

Now I'm even more confused. I absolutely saw the potential in Bel to be scum and Azorius to just be angry town, though I wasn't convinced it was true, but what is this^^^? I can't decide whether to just be astonished or amazed at the audacity/arrogance in that first statement or a little peeved or laughing or what. That's a lot of certainty that we're gonna vote for someone with no backing so far. And more than that what's your case on Witch of all people? Smudger many people have tried (and mostly failed) to make cases against, but no one in the game has thrown an actual accusation at Witch. If you have one I'd love to hear it but I'm honestly completely baffled that it's even in your mind.

"it's going to be easier on you later" what does that even meeeeaaaan?

I'm sorry this post is so rambly and not well put together but I'm literally that guy in the mind blown gif right now. If you have some legit arguments please tell us. Idk if this even changes my opinion on you. I'm just confused. You confuse me

now I was going to point out that he did not have a vote on Bel D2 for the lynch, but to be fair the wagon did not get going until after he had last posted in thread D2.

So my thought and confusion now is that its either Kim or MCN, I think its MCN. but like I said go have a read give me your thoughts, in particular his D3 openner....

[Smudger]

here is an interesting fact, the second highest number of posts in this game is by a player who was lynched D1..... SRMP.

[Smudger]

lol that should read third.. not second

[Witch_Hunter]

I'm not willing to vote Bluebird today, I want to wait until I get answers from everyone on my question about MCN. I will though be mightily pissed if Bluebird continues to lurk and Kim, you need to get back in here and play thank you.

WH you seem to be a little perplexed?

Perplexed? Maybe a little bit, yes. I don't see any good reason Bluebird should, I won't say necessarily lynched, but dismissed as potential scum. So far, Kim's reason didn't convince me much and MrCurlyNoodles' is even worse.

Do you really believe she's probably not scum, and that's why you're not voting her, or it's just that other candidates are better?

p-edit: I've just received your post on MrCurlyNoodles, will read and comment on it later.

[Witch_Hunter]

From a quick read of Smudger's 464 and MrCurlyNoodles ISO, preliminary impression is: maaaybe. If Noodles is not a bubbly teenager*, he sure puts on a very convincing act. Other folks still look more scummy.

* If you're not a teenager, sorry about that, it's just how I picture you. Then again, I do picture Smudger as his De Niro avatar...

[Smudger]

It's not Bluebird, its between Kim and Curly

[Kim]

@

Smudger

re: giving up: I haven't, but I realize I've done just about all the direct self-defense I can do. Like the saying goes, though, the best defense is a good offense. I need to switch my mindset and figure out who scum actually is. Having said that, if you want these answers, they're not too hard to give:

Spoiler:

The absence of any Halifax bands on Kim's list offends me.

1. why is Bel so fixated on Kim, even with one of his first posts?

Possible answer from a null POV of Bel's: Except for the last one, all the bands I listed were from different cities in west-to-east order. There are (apparently) enough Haligonian bands that he expected one at the end of the list. (I honestly thought Alvvays was from Halifax, but they're from Toronto.)

Possible answer from a scummy POV of Bel's: If WH was town (or maybe even if WH was scum, but I would guess not), Bel could have been preparing to piggyback on WH's suspicions of me quoted below and thought he'd be able to push me into being mislynched. Otherwise, maybe Bel saw something in my RQS reply -- maybe self-doubt in the part WH thought suspicious below?

Spoiler:

4) Logical posts that lead to a mislynch.

Isn't that

precisely

what scum would say? "Look, I may look really scummy, but I'm a townie. No, really!"
It could be just your personality, but it sounds suspicious.

5. I'm always scum, even when I'm town. That much hasn't changed

For the same reasons above, I don't like this much either.

2. is this the earliest catch of the game?

No.

Spoiler:

Welcome, new people!

While I'm up (most of the time I can sleep through my phone vibrating when it gets this thread's subscription email, but not tonight, apparently)...

UNVOTE: hiplop for the reasons mentioned by Belisarius, Witch_Doctor, and him. Nobody else seems worthy of a vote at this hour.

EBWOP (edit by way of post): "deserves," not "seems worthy of."

why Kim did you think it necessary to change your wording?

"Seems worthy of" implied in my head that there was some sort of positive value in having a vote from me. My thought processes are pretty abstract -- I picture most things in my mind as relations to something else and then "translate" them to English. It wasn't "necessary," but not being able to be understood is almost a phobia of mine -- if I'm able to see something that could be confusing and fix it easily (as opposed to editing down a stream-of-consciousness wall post, for example), my instinct is to edit it. (Only if I have a little time to think about it do I say to myself, "It's obvious what I meant. Just leave it alone.")

[Witch_Hunter]

It's not Bluebird, its between Kim and Curly

I still don't see what you see about Bluebird.
Anyway, if you're dead set on either Kim or Noodles: then Kim it is.
Because I don't see what you see about Noodles either. He often goes with the flow, but it still reads as town making an effort, and a gradually better one.

Counterargument about Noodles: if he's scum, why didn't he lynch Kim earlier when he had the chance?

[Witch_Hunter]

I have a question for everyone,

what is your take on MCN?

I'm thinking he's town right now, based on the last few pages. It's more process of elimination-type reasoning - Witch Hunter is a bit suspicious. I was looking back, and I saw in Belisarius's last post, he said this:

I'm a VT.

Scumteam stands as Kim and Bluebird. Curly's play today is town.

I'm worried about the fact WH wasn't mentioned at all, really. The comment about Curly could probably be a red herring, and I'm not sure scum would've bussed.

- On my not being mentioned: see posts 408 and 411, where Kim and I talked about this from a different angle. My take is, he didn't mention Smudger or me because his strategy on Day 2 was buddying up to us. What do you think?

- Are you really saying Kim and you are off the hook because that would be bussing, yet you suspect me of bussing Belisarius? What I am missing here?

- Also, your take on Kim would be appreciated.

/Off topic, feel free to ignore, but I'm curious: What is it you do in RL that makes you so busy the rest of us look like hobos living in a library, in front of the computer all day?

[Smudger]

How do you know I live in a Library?

[Witch_Hunter]

Very good try, Smudger, but no way. British Robert de Niro in Arabia? You're obviously MI6.