Newbie 1676 | Hungarian Nóták | Endgame

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.04 (unchanged) A madárka száll az ágra

A madárka száll az ágra, arra repül amerre a párja száll.
Én is, hogyha párom hívna, úgy repülnék, akárcsak a madár.
Csalj el édes, csalj el drága, ahol te vagy, az a hely a mennyország.
Édes mindenségem, drága üdvösségem, vár reánk a boldogság.
Édes mindenségem, drága üdvösségem, vár reánk a mennybéli boldogság.

The bird flies onto the branch, flies to where hir partner flies.
I also, if my partner would call me, would fly just like a bird.
Lure me sweetie, lure me dear, where you are, that place is heaven.
My sweet everything, my dear bliss, happiness awaits us.
My sweet everything, my dear bliss, heavenly joy awaits us.

lynching

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or no lynch.

Belisarius

(L-3): AzoriusSenate

Not voting

(6): Belisarius, Bluebird, Kim, MrCurlyNoodles, Witch_Hunter, Smudger

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(expired on 2016-02-01 14:00:00)

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[Smudger]

and my brain's still being an asshole about letting me remember what it was that made me so sure Kim's scum.

any clarity Bel?

[Smudger]

Off topic: btw I took that test I'm a "LOGISTICIAN ISTJ-T"

[Smudger]

@ Kim: Thank you for the post - seriously - but we have some miscommunication here. I meant, "would you post one of your logical analyses on this game?"
Then again, ignore it for now. I'll ask again later, when the game really gets going. Just from reading other games, I hadn't realized that takes a while to happen.

did this happen?

[Smudger]

Just reading back, I think 55 got Hiplop killed along with 58 .

Azorious did you read 58 . In particular the trust part?

[Smudger]

my links seem to be broken on the post above?

let me quote into spoilers

Post 55

Spoiler:

@

Kim

: We couldn't disagree more in our conclusions. Hiplop's my strongest townread so far. Sure, that's not very strong, more like 60%, but it's still something. So I'm wary of posts like:

I think that hiplop's actions are worthy of pressure.

Allow me to explain. Either hiplop saw Belisarius' first vote or he didn't.
If he did, and he's scum, he's accusing Belisarius on terribly shaky grounds. Even I had noticed it was odd, and it's my freaking first game!
If he did, and he's town, he's still making a weak accusation, but with some purpose. Possibly to see if scum would get on that shitty bandwagon, then call them out later.

If he didn't, he's been skim reading. I can see a veteran town player being slightly careless on day 1, especially in a newbie game. I have a hard time seeing scum-hiplop doing the same, since it's a much greater risk for him.

So, either hiplop's town, and at most guilty of not noticing one post, or he's terrible scum.

Later, the same process is at play. Belisarius changes his vote to you and hiplop does the same at once.
Town-hiplop reason: finally noticed Belisarius was actually taking part in RVS. Therefore, no more reason to suspect him for the moment. And he's also applying pressure on someone. Why not help him and get a read on this Kim guy?
Scum-hiplop reason: uh oh, my case on Belisarius just went offrails. What if he suspects me? I know, I'll sheep his vote and cunningly move attention away from me. <evil laugh>

Again, either hiplop's town or stupid. And I'd rather bet our IC is not stupid.

Post 58

Spoiler:

ok .. I have to claim..... MY GF is Canadian...... I love her......


there are too many Canadians playing MS FFS....

We're taking over.

I'm aware Belsarius voted now, I just thought he'd do more except complain about RQS. FWIW (for what its worth), initially I did miss the vote, oops. I got all excited typing my IC-post, I forgot there was game before that. Once I noticed I tried to do what I could to get something going to spur activity. When he started to do more, I moved my vote~

Belisarius and hiplop, do you think Kim was trying to buddy?

Basically, yeah. I also liked Belisarius' reaction to me, and therefore had a small degree of trust.

@

Kim

: We couldn't disagree more in our conclusions. Hiplop's my strongest townread so far. Sure, that's not very strong, more like 60%, but it's still something. So I'm wary of posts like:

I think that hiplop's actions are worthy of pressure.

So, either hiplop's town, and at most guilty of not noticing one post, or he's terrible scum.

Later, the same process is at play. Belisarius changes his vote to you and hiplop does the same at once.
Town-hiplop reason: finally noticed Belisarius was actually taking part in RVS. Therefore, no more reason to suspect him for the moment. And he's also applying pressure on someone. Why not help him and get a read on this Kim guy?
Scum-hiplop reason: uh oh, my case on Belisarius just went offrails. What if he suspects me? I know, I'll sheep his vote and cunningly move attention away from me. <evil laugh>

Again, either hiplop's town or stupid. And I'd rather bet our IC is not stupid.

WitchHunter seems town, tbh. Kim's point is the best one raised thus far, and witch was able to think from my POV quite well; in a way that would in no way benefit scum. For the most part this post makes me think he is town (and quite flattering *bats eyelashes*), but that first line I have bolded is a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle strange. Town question eachother all the time, I don't think Kim's push on me seems particularly scummy.

Before you play the WIFOM card, that kind of shit is really hard to fake as scum, can backfire very easily, and the only potential gain for scum-hiplop would be for someone to draw the same reasoning I just did. It is not reasonable to assume that scum is prescient enough to have predicted this sort of reaction, except possibly with a player they know really, really well. Given that I've been away from Mafia since the summer, I doubt even my former scumbuddies and hydra partners could forecast my thought processes so accurately.

another defense would be that actions like that are especially regarded as scummy by new players. The biggest thing new players do wrong is they forget that doing something wrong doesn't necessarily mean scum motivation. Me being a goofball and not seeing a vote is

bad

but it more comes from the fact that I am a goofball than I'm trying to assassinate y'all.

(Sidenote, I've been wrestling with how to increase activity in the game, and figured doing a bombastic push would maybe help that. It sorta worked, woo!~) Now lets get these new-newbies in here so we actually have 9 players

I think that hiplop's actions are worthy of pressure. I'm still not sure how loose/tight I should be with my vote early in day stages -- I've gotten criticism for not voting in a couple of my earlier games. Chances are that hiplop isn't scum, but I could really say the same for literally everyone at this point.

Aye, that is a interesting problem that even I struggle with. I hold my vote early game to be pretty weak, poking and prodding at things in an attempt to see varying reactions. The trick is finding balance and it does take quite a long time to figure out! (I've been playing 7 years, and still am not ideal in that regard!)

Something like this is probably what happened, but people need to be called out on changing their vote without comment. I think that not doing so makes the game too easy for scum.

Here is where I will UNVOTE: . I'm satisfied with this response. You're absolutely right.

@ hiplop, Thanks, I'll also have to check the INTP thread out

I just went looking for it and noticed it was pretty hard to find, if anyone is still interested I found it quite interesting! Here it is

Really sort of an awkward spot as we're essentially missing 1/3 of the game right now (smudge, two replacements).

None, outside of a little bit in real life I'm a complete mafia noobie so any help or advice is welcome and probably needed. I'm also new to forum type sites for the most part so any advice on how to navigate/use this site would also be great. Thanks!

I recommend you look at those guides I posted on the first page! (Little bit boring, super helpful!) I know some people find it helpful to use the "view your posts" option in the top left portion of the page (I don't), as it helps them keep track of all their games in one nice little spot. I personally think Mafsepia is much cooler than Mafblack as a theme for the site, and you can change that by going User Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> My Board Style. In fact, there are lots of interesting options in there such as Site Chat (a chatroom) etc. This is an awesome site and you guys/gals should totally explore the neat features it has. For the snazzy quotes like the ones here, if you highlight a portion of a post and then press "quote" it will automatically quote just that section, which is pretty neat. If you have any other questions, ask~

However, I am going to VOTE: mrcurlynoodles as I'm interested in your thoughts on the circumstances in this particular game. What are you feeling, currently?

Just reading back, I think 55 got Hiplop killed along with 58 .

Azorious did you read 58 . In particular the trust part?

[Witch_Hunter]

Interesting. Azorious you really have nothing as I read it Bel has negated your argument. So one question if Bel was not a lynch today who would it be in your opinion?

You guys take as long as you need to but

I'm just going to say right now I'm never removing my vote on this guy. He's scum and needs to bite the dirt so we can find the next one.

We can read for interactions right now but I think he's probably going to play today as if he's being lynched and will probably throw out a bunch of random stuff to throw us off of the second mafia.

Witch I think that Scum is somewhere here Azorious/Kim/Bluebird, in no particular order I might add

That's some progress already - we agree MrCurlyNoodles is probably town.
I'm not sure about AzoriusSenate, certainly not enough to vote him. My best guess right now is, he's town suffering from a bad case of tunneling and confirmation bias.
Belisarius still reads null, but Azorius' lack of evidence actually makes me less inclined to vote him today. Maybe it's the frustration in me speaking, that makes me wish they could be safely ignored for a while.
Kim also reads null. I'd vote him provided there was a reasonable case, but is there any to be made?
Bluebird looks like the best option so far, though it's not certain. Her latest posts offered a partial and not very convincing defense.

Smudger, MrCurlyNoodles, what should we do while they have their fight? Just watch and hope for good information? Take a side? There's still a while before the deadline, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing something.

I'm not sure. It feels like if we don't add on to the argument it's just going to fizzle out super quick (like it seems to already have). That being said I'm not really sure what to add past what we already have. I do agree that it's improbable for them to be a scum team but as scummy as Azorius' tunnelling is comments like this:

Join me against Kim. It is your destiny. Together we shall rule this galaxy as father and son!

Are what make me suspicious of Belisarius as well (though still more suspicious of Azorius). He also seems to be hard on the Kim train for not a very well explained reason since early in day 1.

In terms of talking about other things while they argue it out, Kim and especially Bluebird's current inactivity is unhelpful but in their absence I'm not entirely sure what there is to discuss since they're not bringing anything new. In terms of what they've done so far did you have anything specific to talk about or bring up? Which one do you find scummier?

My opinion is, being inactive at this point in the game, when we have to either lynch scum or risk everything in LyLo tomorrow, is a mild scumread. And Bluebird is the scummiest of them two, since neither of them if contributing much but at least Kim isn't neglecting his defense, since he isn't actually being accused of anything.

[Belisarius]

and my brain's still being an asshole about letting me remember what it was that made me so sure Kim's scum.

any clarity Bel?

I think if it was going to pop, it would have by now, and it hasn't. Nevertheless, Kim's stepping in on what may have been a gambit by hiplop is to date the most solid action I've seen with scum motivation behind it.

I also think that Az's attack on me is misguided town, not scum. I'd rather not lynch him today.

[Kim]

Kim who are your top three lynch candidates and why?

Top four candidates are easy, via process of elimination: you, Belisarius, AzoriusSenate, and Bluebird. Since last I posted, MrCurlyNoodles has shown both understanding of what's been happening in the game and an ability to adjust his thoughts when presented with new information (or new to him, at least).

Out of those four, as of now I think I'd put you as fourth-scummiest (or third-towniest, whichever you prefer). I probably have too much of a bias towards open-minded players, but you seem to be reading, rereading, and thinking about the game. Yay you!

These last three aren't in any particular order:

I've seen both town and scum tunnel on players before, but I haven't figured out how to tell the different alignments apart. AS's tunnel on Bel seems farfetched -- I particularly disliked 303. However, is 305 frustrated town? It feels like it to me, but I know I don't have the experience/skill/whatever to say so for sure.

Bluebird's lurking has moved her to null for me. I'm not sure it's scum-motivated lurking, but I can't rule it out. More answers/thoughts from her will hopefully help.

Belisarius' "trust me" argument for lynching me wasn't very townie, but he's dropped that now. I assume that he hasn't seen anything that changed his mind; at least he's consistent. My responses to his rationale for voting against me are in 53 and 154.

at least Kim isn't neglecting his defense, since he isn't actually being accused of anything.

A small nugget of defense on my part: hiplop had me as his second-highest townread when he was NKed. All other things being equal, scum!Kim would have kept him alive.

[Witch_Hunter]

@ Kim: Thank you for the post - seriously - but we have some miscommunication here. I meant, "would you post one of your logical analyses on this game?"
Then again, ignore it for now. I'll ask again later, when the game really gets going. Just from reading other games, I hadn't realized that takes a while to happen.

did this happen?

Not specifically, since readlists were frowned upon yesterday and later I forgot about it. It's a part of the game I have to get better at, now that you mention it - interacting more with my non-townreads. Probably not what you intended, but thanks for the advice.

[Witch_Hunter]

@ Belisarius:

What's your opinion about Bluebird since her latest posts?

[AzoriusSenate]

Let me make something very clear guys. The lynch IS going to be Bel today. Whether you guys accept that now is on you. If you accept it now it's going to be a lot easier on you later.

[AzoriusSenate]

As far as other lynch candidates if Bel was dead, I'm looking at Witch and I'm looking at Smudger.

[Witch_Hunter]

Kim who are your top three lynch candidates and why?

Top four candidates are easy, via process of elimination: you, Belisarius, AzoriusSenate, and Bluebird. Since last I posted, MrCurlyNoodles has shown both understanding of what's been happening in the game and an ability to adjust his thoughts when presented with new information (or new to him, at least).

Out of those four, as of now I think I'd put you as fourth-scummiest (or third-towniest, whichever you prefer). I probably have too much of a bias towards open-minded players, but you seem to be reading, rereading, and thinking about the game. Yay you!

These last three aren't in any particular order:

I've seen both town and scum tunnel on players before, but I haven't figured out how to tell the different alignments apart. AS's tunnel on Bel seems farfetched -- I particularly disliked 303. However, is 305 frustrated town? It feels like it to me, but I know I don't have the experience/skill/whatever to say so for sure.

Bluebird's lurking has moved her to null for me. I'm not sure it's scum-motivated lurking, but I can't rule it out. More answers/thoughts from her will hopefully help.

Belisarius' "trust me" argument for lynching me wasn't very townie, but he's dropped that now. I assume that he hasn't seen anything that changed his mind; at least he's consistent. My responses to his rationale for voting against me are in 53 and 154.

at least Kim isn't neglecting his defense, since he isn't actually being accused of anything.

A small nugget of defense on my part: hiplop had me as his second-highest townread when he was NKed. All other things being equal, scum!Kim would have kept him alive.

In short, your lynching order is approximately like most people's today.

The bad thing is, there's no strong case on anybody.
On Azorius, FWIW, since this game is my only experience so far: scum faking frustration is hardly inconceivable, but his Day 1 was convincingly townie.

Can I have your opinion about something I posted a while ago?
Post 279, concerning Bluebird:

Besides that, her ISO is strange. Too passive, answers questions but doesn't ask them nor does much that feels like she is actually involved in the game.

[Witch_Hunter]

@ Kim:

Forgot to mention, your nugget of defense does make sense.

[Plotinus]

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(expired on 2016-01-25 22:22:00)

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[MrCurlyNoodles]

Let me make something very clear guys. The lynch IS going to be Bel today. Whether you guys accept that now is on you. If you accept it now it's going to be a lot easier on you later.

What is this?

As far as other lynch candidates if Bel was dead, I'm looking at Witch and I'm looking at Smudger.

What is THIS?

Now I'm even more confused. I absolutely saw the potential in Bel to be scum and Azorius to just be angry town, though I wasn't convinced it was true, but what is this^^^? I can't decide whether to just be astonished or amazed at the audacity/arrogance in that first statement or a little peeved or laughing or what. That's a lot of certainty that we're gonna vote for someone with no backing so far. And more than that what's your case on Witch of all people? Smudger many people have tried (and mostly failed) to make cases against, but no one in the game has thrown an actual accusation at Witch. If you have one I'd love to hear it but I'm honestly completely baffled that it's even in your mind.

"it's going to be easier on you later" what does that even meeeeaaaan?

I'm sorry this post is so rambly and not well put together but I'm literally that guy in the mind blown gif right now. If you have some legit arguments please tell us. Idk if this even changes my opinion on you. I'm just confused. You confuse me

[MrCurlyNoodles]

In terms of the rest of the discussion that's happened today, I agree with most of what's been said. Kim's defence and generally their post has moved them closer to the top of my null reads, very close to actual town, and in fact every one who i read as null (Belisarius, Smudger and Kim) are all acting very town in my eyes and are around the same level. They could all turn out to be scum, and if someone has a valid argument than I could definitely change my mind, but for what it's worth I think they're pretty darn town. I don't even know what's happening with Azorius, I can't tell if it's angry town with a bad case of tunnelling and self importance or scum. And bluebird is probably the easiest vote since, as has been said the lurking at a time like this is really unhelpful. She also has had the most accusations with the least defence. That being said, hopefully she comes back and Azorius explains what's on his mind and there's some lively discussion and I can get a better idea of both of them and maybe my three null's too.

[Kim]

Can I have your opinion about something I posted a while ago?
Post 279, concerning Bluebird:

Besides that, her ISO is strange. Too passive, answers questions but doesn't ask them nor does much that feels like she is actually involved in the game.

I think that's a fair assessment by you. Passivity isn't pro-town, but it doesn't really ping my scumdar because that's how I naturally act. (I should mention that the person I've seen act the most like Bluebird turned out to be scum.) I don't think I have the standing to encourage action from others, but I'd obviously like to see it.

Also, +1 to MrCurlyNoodles' 341 re: AzoriusSenate.

[Smudger]

so Az if we lynch Bel and he flips scum then ok, but if he flips town what then?

[Smudger]

Interesting. Azorious you really have nothing as I read it Bel has negated your argument. So one question if Bel was not a lynch today who would it be in your opinion?

you never answered this either

[Smudger]

Just reading back, I think 55 got Hiplop killed along with 58 .

Azorious did you read 58 . In particular the trust part?

or this Az???

[Smudger]

Kim what would you think of two players who appear to use the same terms of phrase or mention a particular observation? Almost as if one is parroting the other?

I found this quote on the wiki when searching to see if parroting might have a more technical Mafia definition than the normal English usage: "Parroting is not a scumtell; it's more of a 'I-just-read-the-thread-tell.'" It was on the user page of dopog, so it's not official or consensus thought or anything like that, but I think it's true. If you want something in my own words that'd be longer and harder to understand (coincidentally, that's a good reason to use other people's phrasing), I could probably oblige.

oh Ok. you never asked me why I asked that question? anyway I did because of this ....

Every time* I've played with a town Smudger, he's subbed out. He hasn't subbed out of this game. Therefore, he's scum. Easy peasy!

As I have stated earlier, I scumread you because your stats indicate that you subbed out of every game that you were town, one entry notwithstanding. Also,

your

conversation with SRMP was what convinced us to lynch.

Short version: I'm not convinced SRMP is scum.

I am not convinced SRMP is mafia

Kim any response to this?

[Smudger]

As far as other lynch candidates if Bel was dead, I'm looking at Witch and I'm looking at Smudger.

I retract ......you did.

[Smudger]

#348 in response to my #345