Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[pisskop]

Votecount 1.15

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aneninen

- (3) Acryon, davesaz, Burning Crystal

Mad King Ashnard

- (2) Kain Tepes, Almost50

almost50

- (2) KuroiXHF, Texcat

davesaz

- (2) xtoxm, Aneninen

Texcat

- (2) kop, Mad King Ashnard

kuroixhf

- (1) Extrapolated Eagle

Extrapolated Eagle

- (1) Fire Starter

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Not Voting

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With 13 Alive it takes 7 to Lynch!
Day 01 Deadlne is (expired on 2016-03-01 09:00:00).

[Burning Crystal]

Rasssky.... why should we vote Texcat?

~Titus

[Mad King Ashnard]

Because bussing him will give you some towncred.

[Mad King Ashnard]

VOTE: Burning Crystal

[Mad King Ashnard]

Like seriously what the fuck titus?

[Burning Crystal]

You can't come up with one reason why Texcat is scum? One at all?

That begs the question, why are you trying to start a new wagon on someone while avoiding talking about Anenien entirely?

I've been trying to work with you here, but you gotta give me something here.

Dave and acryon have been pretty townie lately and I see where a strong case can be made on Almost. I'm getting quite a few townreads. IF you want me to follow you, you'll need to convince me that either a) texcat is scum or b) you're townier.

~Titus

[Mad King Ashnard]

You're being absurd. You don't even say that you're scumreading anen but you're voting him to sheep your townreads, and EVEN NOW you're acting like you would sheep me instead if you thought I was obvtown.

Can you take a stance? I told you why texcat was scum. What is your independent read on him?

[RadiantCowbells]

Where's my popcorn.

[Mad King Ashnard]

You're blatantly defending an obvscum slot, and for what? In preference to something you don't even independently see but "oh I have to sheep my obvtowns".

Not buying it.

[texcat]

VOTE: Aneninen
I have a reason for wanting the bodyguard to be preserved. You really need to pick another target. Immediately.

Is this vote because you think Aneninen is scum? Or is it a pressure vote? Do you have reasons for Aneninen being scum aside from his vote on Almost?

I could but my obvtown reads are pushing Anenenien. Tex is not likely to give us reaction, so he's more of a lynch if there's nothing better to do.

~Titus

Not sure what I should react to. A vote based mostly on the absence of my predecessors?

Or maybe you're defending your partner texcat?

Don't break my heart Rasky. I wanna think y'all are town. Stuff like this doesn't work.

Dave and Almost are obvious town to me. You're kinda townish, I get close to wanting to follow along with you and you attack me for sheeping bigger townreads rather than actually pushing your case.

~Titus

Can you explain for the simple minded like me your town reads on Dave and Almost? Cause I'm not seeing it on either one.

[Burning Crystal]

@texcat, I don't see you as simple minded.

First, the hasty reaction with unplanned reaction fish plus Almost reaching out to immediately try to fix his blunders. Dave seems to be on the same page and trying to create wifom around who Almost should protect tonight. While they lack subtlety, the motivation is clearly townie.

Exactly texcat. There's no case or reason to vote you and thus nothing to react to. You're here present and engaging. Mka trying to push on you for no reason when they and Anen are wagoned so close to deadline is wtf.

Instead of working to persuade me, MKA jumps down my throat. It looks desperate to create a sideshow but I have been trying not to jump down n RC slot like I do every game.

~Titus

[Mad King Ashnard]

Exactly texcat. There's no case or reason to vote you and thus nothing to react to. You're here present and engaging.

Discrediting a valid push on someone for technical reasons. You don't even say you're townreading her.

Instead of working to persuade me, MKA jumps down my throat. It looks desperate to create a sideshow

Casting doubt while still not taking a stance. If you think its scummy then say so, don't try to discredit me otherwise. Trying to minimize my impact on the game like this while pushing anen 'based on your townreads' is scummy af.

but I have been trying not to jump down n RC slot like I do every game.

Don't use RC as an excuse not to engage me.

[Mad King Ashnard]

Alright. Let's start this by saying that the vote on you and what followed was all Raskol and not me.

I think that Adenine is town. Mostly meta read that's hard to explain, but he talks differently and does some distinctive things as scum. I haven't seen them

yet

here. I don't want to wagon him at this time. I could have literal cop innos on Davesaz and Almost50 and it wouldn't incline me whatsoever to follow their wagons. I mean, you can make your own judgements on Almost50, but I'm not particularly inclined to trust Davesaz either. I agree that A50 is town, I'm not so sure about Davesaz but there's definitely better wagons today.

Let's further exclude myself and yourself from this equation.
That leaves:

Tex
Kaintepes
Kuroi
Acryon
EE
Kop
Xtoxm
Fire Starter

I haven't been overly invested in this game and basically the only ISOs I've read are of the people that I've declared off limits in this post but I read through Tex's ISO and saw nothing that could even be construed as scumhunting from any of the 3 members of the slot. I was fine with the vote as a result.

I'm not going to take 'sheeping my townreads' as an excuse when the people in question are Davesaz and Almost50, sorry. What's your read on Texcat, and why?
If you're townreading her, who in that pile would you prefer I look over?

[Almost50]

Or maybe you're defending your partner texcat?

Don't break my heart Rasky. I wanna think y'all are town. Stuff like this doesn't work.

Dave and Almost are obvious town to me.

You're kinda townish, I get close to wanting to follow along with you and you attack me for sheeping bigger townreads rather than actually pushing your case.

~Titus

You can't come up with one reason why Texcat is scum? One at all?

That begs the question, why are you trying to start a new wagon on someone while avoiding talking about Anenien entirely?

I've been trying to work with you here, but you gotta give me something here.

Dave and acryon have been pretty townie lately and

I see where a strong case can be made on Almost

. I'm getting quite a few townreads. IF you want me to follow you, you'll need to convince me that either a) texcat is scum or b) you're townier.

~Titus

???????????????????????????????????
7 posts apart, both signed as ~Titus, and I haven't posted in between. What's the deal here??

[Burning Crystal]

Context Almost.

I was meaning a strong TOWN case can be made on you. The second paragraph in the second post is talking about how townie you are.

I don't care what you accept as a slot RC. I am nullreading Texcat. No amount of whining and bitching will change that. You aren't having a valid push on Texcat. You are refusing to provide a reason for your push at all.

~Titus

[Almost50]

@Titus: OK. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's 7 am here and I have yet to hit the hay.

[Mad King Ashnard]

I'm pushing on Texcat because neither she nor any of her predecessors have done anything that can be construed as scumhunting.
Raskol's pushing on Tex because that plus he thinks there's other stuff that's scummy, but I've seen nothing worth townreading and Raskol's big on it.
It's also flat out a better wagon than any of the other major ones.

[Mad King Ashnard]

Can this be less adversarial and more suggesting alternatives?
You don't want a Tex lynch (apparently.) I don't want an Adenine lynch.
Who would you want me to look over and see if they're scum?

[Mad King Ashnard]

For all your 'RC needs to be more of a team player and spend less time strongarming his reads!' you should respect that my reads are fairly decent, and I'm more than capable of keeping Adenine by force of will if need be.
I'm not trying to make this a shouting match or a measuring contest, I just want to keep someone that I'm tentatively townreading and who will absolutely trigger my scumdar if scum alive.
AKA, I'm reaching out to you like you always say that you want me to do, albeit with Adenine completely out of bounds here. You said that you had a bunch of scumreads that weren't happening.
Who are they and why?

[Burning Crystal]

I'm pushing on Texcat because neither she nor any of her predecessors have done anything that can be construed as scumhunting.
Raskol's pushing on Tex because that plus he thinks there's other stuff that's scummy, but I've seen nothing worth townreading and Raskol's big on it.
It's also flat out a better wagon than any of the other major ones.

Ok. I know I may sound hostile here but I am going to explain to you a little further what I am looking for. "Lacks scumhunting" is a buzzword. Texcat's recent posts don't really seem to be lacking scumhunting. This game is also likely multi ball or mafia plus SK which means every slot should be scumhunting even if scum.

Other stuff doesn't give me anything I can look for or anything I can see. Like nothing. Nothing at all. I want to engage and look over to try and see if we can work together and you just attack rather than engage.

I could do K who isn't Kuribo. I get a gut feeling you two like each other too much. He seems to be too peacemakery.

KT is also a decent lynch, although I think no one agrees. My townreads don't care for it at all.

~Titus

[Mad King Ashnard]

Texcat's recent posts don't really seem to be lacking scumhunting. This game is also likely multi ball or mafia plus SK which means every slot should be scumhunting even if scum.

...which?
She's made 8.
None of them really have any scumhunting. The closest thing is the post on Almost50 but the way she deals with his claim is odd and it strikes me as far more IIOA than anything; she talks more about him being scum for mistakes that he's made than about him being scum for any sort of scum intent. And when you say recent posts, 609 is entirely worthless until she follows up on her questions, 577 is useless, 568 is useless and feels far more like scum looking for a reason than a legitimate thought process, 485 was incredibly waffly, etc.

[Burning Crystal]

Ok, that's something I can look at while I put dinner on.

Can you talk to me about my concerns with K buddying you or KT?

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

The ONLY PR that could've been outed here would be the PGO themselves. I'm a Weak Bodygaurd. We thus are in scenarios 5, 10 or 12. ALL 12 scenarios have Jailers and Cops, so these would not be outed by my false claim. Furthermore,

I know we don't have a Tracker

, a BulletProof or a Vig.

12
1 Town Jailer, 1 Town Cop, 5 Town Citizen,

1 Town Tracker

, 1 Town Weak Bodyguard, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 WW Goon, 1 WW Roleblocker

Sorry, this still looks like a claim from scum. I would expect the real Bodyguard to be more familiar with the scenarios he was in. Especially if he claimed to study them.

Ok, right here. This is a null post for me. You find it scummy. I think Almost is town. The question here is Texcat scumreading bad play or taking advantage of Derp town. I have scumread bad play myself but it's the sort of thing scum love to coast on. Just because posts are useless to you, they aren't useless to your townreads IMO.

To figure out which, ask him for his reads.

@Texcat, reads please.

[Mad King Ashnard]

I agree that Almost is town.

Titus, it's not nearly about whether it's scumreading bad play or taking advantage of Derp town; I can't distinguish that. Not directly, at least.

What I

can

distinguish is that saying that's someone's scum because they were wrong about setup info in this way ought to be a visceral sort of 'THIS GUY'S LYING! HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN' feel that gets her hot and bothered and brings out the pitchforks but Texcat feels almost apologetic in the way she's giving out the scumread. It feels extremely discordant with the post and her manner of pushing it. Not to mention that she really doesn't feel overly interested in pushing the case; Almost50 wagon lost many of its voters to different wagons, but she hasn't retracted the scumread but she hasn't commented on the lost votes either; it really doesn't feel like she's someone who is town with a legitimate scumread. She feels way more like she's just looking for someone who she can have good reasons to vote for, and that reads scum.

I'm starting to read XurioKHF now.

[Mad King Ashnard]

Like you can argue about that one post where she talks about Davesaz's vote transition and she talks to you but it really doesn't have any real town-sorting-game urgency feels to me.

The Davesaz question is utterly undirected (where is she planning to go with it?) and hasn't been followed up on as of yet, etc.