Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: Kuroi

[KuroiXHF]

Oh goodie. I'm now able to reply to this. You can expect something within the next few hours.

Yes, my views have changed... although not as much as usual. For example, no one who I originally saw as strong town category in my wall post is now strong scum. You'll know more in my next big post.

And how dare you, Rask. I compliment you and this is how you repay me?

Preview Edit-Xtoxm: Thank you, sir. I do, however, think I'd appreciate a reason. For some reason, I don't think you'd just vote me because some people gave you reasons and you've suddenly changed your mind.

[chilledtea]

I would personally, like to know who texcat would like lynched today.

[Aneninen]

Great. I'm catching up soon.
This game has my attention now.

[chilledtea]

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421[/quote]

I want to know what it was that made you vote for Burning Crystal, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

[Aneninen]

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

Have you ever seen scum-Kop?

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Why is she scummy?

By the way, Chilled may be town.

WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT ME ANYMORE...

Read and you'll see how the others post.
I don't want to be the egghead here (and I'm not even a particularly good player) but still. Develop your own gamestyle and omit the shouts.

Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

Is that one still a tell?

I've said similar things to that in previous games when I've been scum, when trying to give reads out without really asserting myself to give the impression that I know too much.

Did you mean Zar's?

The spoiler above is just horrible. Any WW would just sit quietly and pretend your claim was real, knowing it wasn't. Why in the world would a WW ever call you out based on your claim not matching the setup?

We can sort Almost out later. He's not worth the try Today.

Being scum in this scenario, the perfect play is to drop something a little scummy and leave. Lurk shit out. The other scum (SK or other team) would be much less likely to shoot you.

Why do you assume a crosskill so early?

Acyron, I would rather not as Dave was softing his full role, not just being a PR generally. It would probably be more protown to lynch us than to have me out Dave's role.
~Titus

Erm, you voted Dave earlier.
Whatever you saw there it does NOT make you town.

Damn kuroi why you buddy me so hard this game eh?

It's your fault. I wouldn't buddy you if you weren't so good looking.

My read on kuroi this game has consisted of "if he was scum he would be better than this right?"

Feels fake. Although I can't put my finger on anything definite.

[Aneninen]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN PEOPLE CALL ME A LOW HANGING FRUIT THOUGH...

Wait-oh, that's fake.

This:

@MOD My vote is on KainTepes

No, it's not "low hanging fruit". Yes, I do believe that scum might try to hide by "acting town". No reason to think newb scum would do that any less than experienced. The first advice you see if you look up how to play scum is to look town. What better way to do that than to tell people what town looks like (to you) and then try to look that way. What makes it an act is how the talk about being aggressive doesn't go with the actions.

seriously if i was scum i will NOT be that stupid, i always found myself an aggressive player on TOS, but now here everyone just says im loud and not very useful, so i was feeling hurt, so nevermind, but that is my personal issue and you are just exploiting that personal issue so now you look really SCUMMY!!!!!

[KuroiXHF]

FYI, I should post my read but it'll be later than I hoped tonight. I'm genuinely sorry, but I'm doing two sixteen hour shifts, and I'm already having a hard time trying to stay awake, much less piece together a coherent post.

[chilledtea]

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

Have you ever seen scum-Kop?

No, I haven't.

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Why is she scummy?

By the way, Chilled may be town.

I will answer this a bit later

Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

Is that one still a tell?

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in

this

manner when scum ; he isn't playing in

this

manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

[chilledtea]

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

I want to know what it was that made you vote for Burning Crystal, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

lol.

This quote doesn't really make any sense. Allright I will repost what I wanted to say :

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

I want to know what it was that made you vote for

texcat

, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

[KuroiXHF]

I want to policy lynch KT at this point.

I am willing to join that if it becomes a thing.

Because it's easy. If it's easy, you'll do it.

@Almost50, I am not going to answer your question as written. Doing preflip associatives is bad.

@all, I really don't like Kuribo coming into attack Almost when Almost seemed to townread me pretty well, despite Almost's question being antitown.

VOTE: Kop

1. Ineffective pushes on new people and flakes
2. Eagle's case was pretty good
3. Quote wall defense when Eagle started making points on him
4. Not paying attention to most of the player list

Eagle was not good. Sure, he pushed against Kop, but Eagle's played a completely shit game - all game. Chilledtea is a lot more... chilled. Unfortunately for you, Chilledtea - you're going to inherit all of Eagle's negative points... at least until you earn the positive back.

Will post tonight. Sorry, got busy.

EXTREMELY SCUMMY. Why? Since that post, he hasn't done anything until 666 where he's apparently picking up a prod. He's making me believe any account relating to the sun will claim to catch up then fail hardcore. He's been active all day today, and did shit. I'm led to believe he's actively lurking.

Intuition.
Your ignorance seemed to be genuine.

The only thing I'm ignorant on is how I'm allegedly ignorant.

Just so you stop messing around; I'm an X-shot PGO

To reiterate myself, I find it scummy that he's feeling forced to claim after two votes. I don't think he's town.

I think Almost is actually just really really bad.

I mean I know Almost is just really really bad but I think this is an instance of him being bad rather than scum.

Davesaz is scummier.

I agree that Almost50 is bad, but that doesn't mean he's town. And why is Davesaz scummier?

I thought u could play 5his game drunk

But I cant.

You're all scum and you all owe mefive bucks

Oh and rc isn't scum but rask is.

This isn't fair, mod. Fucking cheating.

Apparently, I think I'm fucking hilarious when I'm drunk. ...and I am. I kind of laughed at the whole "five bucks" part.

VOTE: Anenien



Dave, your hiring manager is unimpressed.

This seems like an OMGUS.

Kuroi get in here. You are a man of good judgement and refined tastes; surely you will see reason.

You think much too highly of me, Rask.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

Why?

I'm pushing on Texcat because neither she nor any of her predecessors have done anything that can be construed as scumhunting.
Raskol's pushing on Tex because that plus he thinks there's other stuff that's scummy, but I've seen nothing worth townreading and Raskol's big on it.
It's also flat out a better wagon than any of the other major ones.

Ok. I know I may sound hostile here but I am going to explain to you a little further what I am looking for. "Lacks scumhunting" is a buzzword. Texcat's recent posts don't really seem to be lacking scumhunting. This game is also likely multi ball or mafia plus SK which means every slot should be scumhunting even if scum.

Other stuff doesn't give me anything I can look for or anything I can see. Like nothing. Nothing at all. I want to engage and look over to try and see if we can work together and you just attack rather than engage.

I could do K who isn't Kuribo. I get a gut feeling you two like each other too much. He seems to be too peacemakery.

KT is also a decent lynch, although I think no one agrees. My townreads don't care for it at all.

~Titus

I can actually see a multiball and that MIGHT be town points seeing as it might be pro-town, but I don't know how many townie points it can give you... especially when you're voting KT. How about this? How about I will consider voting someone else IF you can give me a reason that we should vote him other than, "He's distracting" or "annoying."

Kuroi could be scum I guess.
The drunk post felt terrible and the way he reacted in 51 felt like he actually was lying about the drunk thing.
Which gives me odd feelings.
But I wouldn't scumread him remotely for 'buddying us' when I don't think that he's been buddying us much at all. Raskol and I have both been in games with him (I called the whole scumteam within 20 minutes of replacing in ) and we both got along fairly well with him so I'm not surprised that he's being friendly with us.
There's been other scummy shit that he's done though. There were posts in my last game with him where it was super clear that he was town and trying to scumhunt, and there's not anything quite so clear in this game. Would rather he be given more time but if I had to wagon it I wouldn't mind.

I did admit this game is a bit more difficult to scum hunt because I'm not getting as good reads. I've also been unable to hunt over the weekend because I'm not normally active on the weekends, but otherwise, I think I've been in the same neighborhood.

Don't really care for Dave's heavy softing, a hardclaim would be more convincing. He's basically softed power in response to becoming the primary wagon whilst keeping things vague, which only really favours scum given how obvious he's made it. Forcing him into a hardclaim means if he's scum he may get countered at some point or claim something unsustainable, which is basically our goal for today, we're probably only going to lynch scum today if it's without a claim. He may be town but the way he's gone about it doesn't really look town (what 50 did is the town way), so i'd like to stay on to get a hardclaim out of him before moving back to Anen. If he's town I don't think there's any detriment to having him expand. I could also go Mad King, don't trust him and 540 reads too informed for my liking. Texcat is a low priority compromise of those 3 that i'd do if I have to.

+ Townie points.

I am picking up PROD

Good. Go scum hunt.

Prodge

See? This is when he comes back.

Oh and EAGLE. I HAVE voted BURNING CRYSTAL earlier this game.

I AM KUROIXHF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CANT COPY THE WAY I SPEAK THAT ISNT fair???!!

I really don't know how the question marks are necessary here.

I am around 70% through reading everything. My feelings in brief :

Town :

Anenien
Kuroi
Kain
FireStarter
Acroyn (?spelling)
xtoxm (fence)

Difficult read :

Burning Crystal
Mad King

Scum :

Davesaz
Kop
almost50 (fence)

I haven't read much of texcat since where I am he just replaced in but I like him as town for the moment.

Out of curiosity, the person you want to lynch second most if Burning Crystal, even though you also have Almost 50 and Davesaz... what gives?

WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT ME ANYMORE...

Because you're not important... more-so, you're not trying to be important. On the bright side, these kinds of post make you a great VP pick for Donald Trump.

Because we, as a group, are ignoring you until you type properly.

~tn5421

You. I like you.

As far as kuroi is concerned, I have, for the most part in the game considered him town and he has given me little reason to consider him otherwise. But some people are mentioning that he plays differently according to his meta if he is town, and that was the reason why I said that he could be a really good scum player.

You're right. I like to consider myself a great scum player when I'm scum. The trick is to compliment people, like Mad King Ash- I MEAN... I'M NOT SCUM. WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SCUM?

To summarize:
Holy crap what a mess this game is for town right now.
-Almost is probably town.
-Anen is always wall-city, so I'm reluctant to agree that he is flailing.
-If Dave is actually softing, I don't like it at all. The tide was already turning away from Almost and it seemed absolutely unnecessary with the only results being him gaining towncred. Leaving alone for now, revisiting later.
-I think I like Mad King.
-Reluctantly calling EE town

for now

.
-Kop's vote on BC felt weak. Lean-scum.
-Don't like Kuroi at the moment. Agree with others that the drunk post didn't read well. I'd be on board for a lynch here but it doesn't look like there is enough interest in that.

Two things:
1) Eagle isn't in the game anymore. You need to relax with a cup of chilled tea.
2) You're coming up with excuses now. If you had such a huge problem with my drunk post, you'd mention it at the time. No one did, except Eagle.
...and I never got that five bucks.

I would totally vote Kurio. I know my support might not mean much given the current mentality against me. I have always felt the dynamic between him and MKA was wierd and I hate his lurking when we should be trying to throw together. I think MKA and I would both be ok with that. They have virtually no interaction and K has been following MKA like a lost puppy and obvtown reading him.

I proved why you're wrong about the townreading, but please don't make me waste my time in proving you how you're wrong about us not interacting with each other.

Being scum in this scenario, the perfect play is to drop something a little scummy and leave. Lurk shit out. The other scum (SK or other team) would be much less likely to shoot you.

Nothing regarding this has been proven. Do you know something we don't?

My read on kuroi this game has consisted of "if he was scum he would be better than this right?"

And what have I done wrong? Is this all about the drunk post? Are you going to tell me you've done nothing wrong while drunk?

VOTE: Kuroi

I don't think I'm getting an explanation on this.

New Read List

Town: Kop
Lean Town: Aneninen, Xtoxm, Davesaz, KainTepes, Acryon
Null: Texcat, Chilledtea, Mad King Ashnard
Lean Scum: Firestarter
Scum: Burning Crystal, Almost50

[texcat]

I would personally, like to know who texcat would like lynched today.

Me too! I'm not feeling at all confident in my reads atm.
I have a town read on Kop. I have played with scum Kop and he was not nearly as involved in the game as he is here.
I have a scum read on Almost50 for the two fake claims, but will give him another day.
I'm leaning town on Aneninen, Xtoxm, and Acryon. They are making sober thoughtful posts that I mostly agree with and can see the reasoning behind.
Davesaz seems to be posting more than I am used to from him, which originally had me with a ? by his name. He's going in the null pile for now. I expect he'll get sorted sooner rather than later.
ChilledTea is going into the null pile for the moment. I wasn't particularly happy with Eagle, and want to give ChilledT a chance.
Also in the null pile, but I wouldn't mind policy lynching are KT and Fire starter.
BurningCrytal. I seem to have a bad track record reading Titus. I started this game with a scum lean on her mostly because I disagreed with her reads, particularly Aneninen, but also Davesaz. The last time that happened I think I voted Titus who ended up town and correct in her reads. So I'm definitely hesitant here. And she's explained her Davesaz read and it makes sense now.
I'm left with Kuroi and MadKing.
Kuroi after all that work in his wall post only found scum based on their activity level. PEDIT: I see that has now changed somewhat.

Read List:
Town: Kop
Lean Town: Aneninen, Xtoxm, Davesaz, KainTepes
Null: Extrapolated Eagle, FireStarter
Lean Scum: Almost50, Mad King Ashnard
Scum: Burning Crystal, Sunset Illusions

VOTE: Burning Crystal

The only reason that I'm not voting Sunset Illusions is that I'm hoping he'll be replaced by someone active who can give me better reads. Burning Crystal is posting a lot of what I don't like, just enough to be somewhat active. I'm seeing a lot of flying below the radar.

VOTE: Mad King
I didn't appreciate him calling my posts absolutely worthless. I know that his case on me was wrong and have to think that he was just going for an easy target. A lot of his posts are fluffy and he earlier announced his lack of interest in sorting anyone and in the game.

[Burning Crystal]

My read on kuroi this game has consisted of "if he was scum he would be better than this right?"

So what you're saying is that he's too scummy to be scum. I disagree.

@Kop1: Our heads are listed in our signature.
@Kop253: AtE is fairly common on Town of Salem. They only have 40 seconds of discussion time per day, and you have to play hard and fast to get the most out of it.
@KT: You should play at EM sometime, its a slower meta and objectively better than ToS.

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

I want to know what it was that made you vote for Burning Crystal, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

lol.

This quote doesn't really make any sense. Allright I will repost what I wanted to say :

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

I want to know what it was that made you vote for

texcat

, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

I don't know why Titus followed MKA onto texcat. He's not in my scum pile or anything. For that matter I'm not scumreading Kuroi either.

I would like to see our vote placed on MKA or Davesaz. I am willing to compromise for KT or FireStarter.

~tn5421

[KuroiXHF]

You play Epic Mafia? I actually decided I don't like you anymore.

[Burning Crystal]

Only with friends. And it is better than ToS. If you can't handle that then that's just too bad. (i prefer bob's chatmafia.net)

~tn5421

[KuroiXHF]

I am

really

tempted to vote Fire Starter now. I still see his posts elsewhere on MafiaScum. I'm going to

ask the mod

to give him a prod and see if he can do something useful.

[pisskop]

Fire Starter is not within prod range

[pisskop]

Fire Starter has requested replacement.

[Almost50]

*Sigh* I keep refreshing and refreshing in hopes to find something useful, but all I see is chit-chat or wall quotes with one-liner comments. You people don't seem to agree on anything at all. No 3 players have the same #1 lynch priority, and it looks like we're bargaining with each other, yet not even close to being successful at that.

It thus follows my reads haven't changed much, and I'm still not voting outside of KT, Kop, chilledtea or Mad King. One thing I've learned from a recent game though is to never post a full list of reads on everybody. It only makes it easier for scum to pick their targets from the universally town read pool.

[Almost50]

Fire Starter has requested replacement.

SIX replacements and we're not even close enough to the end of D1??? I'm wondering if I'll have a totally different set of players by D3.

[KuroiXHF]

*Sigh* I keep refreshing and refreshing in hopes to find something useful, but all I see is chit-chat or wall quotes with one-liner comments. You people don't seem to agree on anything at all. No 3 players have the same #1 lynch priority, and it looks like we're bargaining with each other, yet not even close to being successful at that.

I do agree that we need to agree on a lynch since we only have two days left. I think we should take some of the more popular lynches and decide on one.

Here's the latest vote count from this morning:

Votecount 1.19

---

Burnign Crystal

- (4), Aneninen, KuroiXHF, davesaz, kop

Mad King Ashnard

- (2) Almost50, Kain Tepes

Kop

- (2) Chilledtea, Acryon

almost50

- (1) Texcat

davesaz

- (1) xtoxm

Extrapolated Eagle

- (1) Fire Starter

Texcat

- (1) Mad King Ashnard

aneninen

- (1) Burning Crystal

---

Not Voting

-

---

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to Lynch!
Day 01 Deadlne is (expired on 2016-03-03 09:00:00).

Right now, the three most popular lynches are Mad King Ashnard, Burning Crystal and Kop. I think we should decide on one because it's either that or no one dies.

[Mad King Ashnard]

VOTE: Burning Crystal

I feel like Titus is using different heads as an excuse to justify voting us when her behaviour towards us heavily indicated that she read us as town. Now, TN451 FINALLY shows up and it's to support voting someone that Titus can't? Like, gone the entire game but now he finally shows up and the reason is to vote someone Titus couldn't get away with?

If I'm wrong here, sorry I guess. But there's been so much nasty stuff from the slot that I can't justify not voting it to myself.

[texcat]

I love the way that Kuroi suggests that we consolidate on an old vote count before he got two votes.
FWIW here's what I've got as current. And as I post it, I notice that I don't like my company very much on Mad King.

Burnign Crystal

- (5), Aneninen, KuroiXHF, davesaz, kop, Mad King Ashnard

Mad King Ashnard

- (3) Almost50, Kain Tepes, Texcat

Kop

- (2) Chilledtea, Acryon

Kuroi

- (2) Burning Crystal, xtoxm

ChilledTea

- (1) Fire Starter

[Burning Crystal]

@760 - 770 (Kuroi's posts)

Ok first things first. This post is atrocious in the amount of fenceshitting and garbage in it.

First, you claim that all my reads are based in what is easy (opening 760) while simultaneously trying to limit the lynch to all the popular wagons but yourself by ignoring the thread's recent developments (770). You simultaneously attack my reads for being easy while I'm being voted for the unpopularity of my opinions. Trend shifts against me once I explain (as much as I could) and you try to artificially force it back.

Second, you attempt to cast me telling Dave to knock it off on the soft claiming as OMGUSing someone (not sure who). That's a pretty big stretch.

Third, you do a burden shift on Acryon stating that "if he had such a problem he'd say it then". This is abundantly hypocritical at best given none of your complaints in your wall were mentioned contemporaneously as things occurred. The fact is not everyone mentions every thought that comes into their head. Even Miss Posts a lot.

Fourth, you're really wish washy with your vote and you've begun vote shopping for a new wagon already. On the one hand, you say you're tempted to vote Fire Starter (765) but in your next post you state that Fire Starter shouldn't even be an option.


@ChilledTea,

I voted Texcat to let that wagon possibly shake out after RC posted a case that possibly could have been valid and got the fuck away from the buzzword crap. I wanted to see what people would do with that and give RC a little bit to help my partner give me an opinion on him. 623 in particular is what I was referring to.

Given MKA's recent post however, I'm a little askance about that. He's twisting how this head feels about him in order to paint any future attempt to vote him in a bad light. Oh well, the other hydra head isn't townreading our slot either. Better try to paint the dissonance as scummy.

Again, they both seem to move very in sync. They both attempt to turn the attention of the game of the hydra after more people vote MKA.

MKA being sheepish about the vote on me is also not traditional about RC in any way shape or form. If he scumreads me, he goes full tilt in. The last game we played together, he was so convinced I was scum he got us both mod killed in his dogged pursuit. He doesn't have a history of awkwardly pursuing people.


I need to speak with TN but I'll likely be moving our vote to MKA. Let him crow about how scummy it is. I give up.

[Mad King Ashnard]

MKA being sheepish about the vote on me is also not traditional about RC in any way shape or form. If he scumreads me, he goes full tilt in. The last game we played together, he was so convinced I was scum he got us both mod killed in his dogged pursuit. He doesn't have a history of awkwardly pursuing people.

Do you remember when we argued in blitz 22 about this?

Do you remember when I didn't hammer you in that game with postie?

come now. stahp.