Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[acryon]

Ranger is still leaning into my scum pile. I'd actually consider some more votes on her.

I want Anen first for sure, and since we've got some time I'd like to keep building that.

[KainTepes]

HELOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello. Can you give me a list of each player and your read on them? And for the love of all that is good, no caps. Although I'm glad I've played with you because now I will put a no caps rule in any game I mod

i learnt how to make a reads list from the other game i was in so I WILL DO THAT...........

MOST TOWNY: Kain Tepes
TOWNY: Kop,
SLIGHTLY TOWNY: Ranger, acryon,,
DONT KNOW???: Mad King Ashnard, davesaz
SLIGHTLY SCUMMY: Almost50
SCUMMY: Xtoxm, chilledtea, Burning Crystal
VERY SCUMMY: None yet that is SO CLEAR.......

[KainTepes]

Forgot ANEN, who is in my DONT KNOW pile,,

[Almost50]

SLIGHTLY SCUMMY: Almost50
SCUMMY: Xtoxm, chilledtea, Burning Crystal

Exactly my point. Anyone who points a finger at KT becomes a scum read for him. Notice what I said to him when I decided to vote him, and how he responded back then.

[KainTepes]

did you even READ MY POST where i explained why CHILLEDTEA was suspicious,,

RANGER finds me suspiciuos but he is one of the MOST TOWNIES..........

I AM AGGRESSIVE PLAYER BUT ONLY TOWARDS THOSE PEOPLE WHO I THINK ARE SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[davesaz]

Ooh, KT reads. That gives us something which might be interesting to talk about.

Please point to some specific things that you find scummy, that is to say examples of things your scum reads are posting and why you think those posts make them scum.

[Ranger]

I didn't say they were scummy per se either. My intent was to get davesaz to talk, which I was successful in doing. Sometimes a FoS or vote will get that done quicker than just asking nicely.

This is backtracking at its finest. An FoS is, by definition, accusing a player of doing something scummy. Votes serve much the same purpose. (I realize "I voted for reactions!" is a theoretically-plausible action, but it's an awful one which virtually nobody uses for good reason.)

Ranger is probably scum. Vote remains on a claimed PR, but no real attempts to do anything with that.

And the scum motivation for this is...?

He literally is waffling by his definition while defining my waffling in the same post.

Oh, really? Point out where. 'Cause that post is calling you scum, and nothing other than calling you scum.

I think lynching KT will help clear the view much better. For one thing, he's being suspected by many (including myself) but not as many are committed to voting him, thus he remains a distraction.

This is scum, going for the easy lynch, hiding behind policy.

[Ranger]

RANGER finds me suspiciuos but he is one of the MOST TOWNIES

Sorry to shoot you down, Kain, but, uh...I'm actually not scumreading you. You're actually a strong townread of mine.

[davesaz]

If there are two scum teams I would not be at all surprised if Aneninen and BC are both scum on opposing teams.
Trying to figure out who the partners would be in that scenario.

Do you think the missing kill comment was a scumslip?

I see BC setting up a narrative of them being JK'd by a suspicious Kuroi as the explanation of a missing kill. But I question why that would be mentioned by town, since there is no evidence of a 2nd kill. Even in a MB scenario, from a town perspective all it would do is tell scum why their kill failed. On the other hand, if there are 2 scum teams it's a high probability that both teams have a RB (WW roles mimic Mafia roles in the setup and mafia get a RB in one of the weak BG setups). In that environment, the narrative makes a dandy reaction test to find the other team's RB.

No comments on this?

[davesaz]

From other people, that is... It got a reply from acryon, but open question -- what town suggests a missing kill was because they got JK'd?

[chilledtea]

I am not sure if there was any intention behind that post. I side more with the possibility that it could have been a slip.

[Ranger]

what town suggests a missing kill was because they got JK'd?

Oh, Burning Crystal is probably scum anyway, but it's not for this, let me assure you. Titus is that arrogant as both town and scum, so I fully believe she thinks she was the nightkill and got JK'd.

[acryon]

I didn't say they were scummy per se either. My intent was to get davesaz to talk, which I was successful in doing. Sometimes a FoS or vote will get that done quicker than just asking nicely.

This is backtracking at its finest. An FoS is, by definition, accusing a player of doing something scummy. Votes serve much the same purpose. (I realize "I voted for reactions!" is a theoretically-plausible action, but it's an awful one which virtually nobody uses for good reason.)

What? You're really saying that people don't vote for reactions for good reason? This happens all the time. I use votes for pressure or because I desire to see someone lynched. This is fairly standard practice across the board.

Ranger is probably scum. Vote remains on a claimed PR, but no real attempts to do anything with that.

And the scum motivation for this is...?

The scum motivation is to put a vote out on someone controversial so it doesn't look like you're just sitting back, but then not go anywhere with it so you have no PR blood on your hands if he were to be lynched and flip PR.

He literally is waffling by his definition while defining my waffling in the same post.

Oh, really? Point out where. 'Cause that post is calling you scum, and nothing other than calling you scum.

What's not painfully clear? Someone asked you if you were veering away from believing me to be town and you say yes, and then damn me for potentially veering from a townread on someone else.

[Aneninen]

If you look through my ISO, you'll see the various issues I've had with him, but mostly it comes down to him trying to make things seem scummy that just aren't, and going down roads that misdirect town from scumhunting. 1053 is a good example.

Isn't it strange that you're still bringing that up whereas you're BLATANTLY ignoring that others have made similar speculations. Eg. BurningCrystal's Setup post was absolutely not scummy, was it?

The primary reason being the lack of defenders. Wagons on scum tend to have people defending it. As far as I remember, no one was really opposed to it until I said I was. It also doesn't help that Anen is leading that wagon and his cases are dependent on a decent helping of misrepresentation.

Unless you're their defender.
In another game I posted the same reasoning about my scumbuddy.

Maybe BC's scumpartner can't find anything to defend. Maybe Ranger is the BC scumpartner.

That's another possibility but Acryon is more likely.

Yeah I suppose a second scum-team would eliminate my criticism about no real defenders. Although it still makes me nervous that Anen is leading it who may as well be confscum.

Since when have I been "may as well confscum"? Oh, wait, because you and BurningCrystal say it so. Aaaaaaaaand I'm lurking and tunnelling. If so, what are YOU doing?

For example:

I want Anen first for sure, and since we've got some time I'd like to keep building that.

[acryon]

If you look through my ISO, you'll see the various issues I've had with him, but mostly it comes down to him trying to make things seem scummy that just aren't, and going down roads that misdirect town from scumhunting. 1053 is a good example.

Isn't it strange that you're still bringing that up whereas you're BLATANTLY ignoring that others have made similar speculations. Eg. BurningCrystal's Setup post was absolutely not scummy, was it?

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Yeah I suppose a second scum-team would eliminate my criticism about no real defenders. Although it still makes me nervous that Anen is leading it who may as well be confscum.

Since when have I been "may as well confscum"? Oh, wait, because you and BurningCrystal say it so. Aaaaaaaaand I'm lurking and tunnelling. If so, what are YOU doing?

For example:

I want Anen first for sure, and since we've got some time I'd like to keep building that.

Some clear hyperbole from me, but I think things like my 1234 make clear that I'm, not here to tunnel or lurk.

[Almost50]

ZZZZZ ....

[pisskop]

Votecount 2.07

---

Burning Crystal

- (4) Aneninen, Mad King Ashnard, chilledtea, davesaz

kaintepes

- (2) xtoxm, Almost50

Aneninen

- (2) acryon, Burning Crystal

Almost50

- (1) Ranger

xtoxm

- (1) kaintepes

Ranger

- (1) kop

---

Not Voting

-

---

With 11 Alive it takes 6 to Lynch!
Day 02 Deadline is (expired on 2016-03-21 11:30:00).

[Burning Crystal]

I am sorry but I just did such a quick 180 on my reads regarding BC.

I am now so close to thinking she is scum. Like 90% sure.

Would you mind guiding me through your thought process here?

Why do you care about the setup so much? Your close mindedness regarding the setup makes me believe you have more information than me. I don't think you are vanilla town and I don't think you are town.

Such strange theories regarding Kuroi and frankly some of them just very strange. Like unless you were blocked you couldn't really have realistically known that Kuroi targeted you; but you are VT right?

And then the strange insistence that there are 2 scum teams out of which one consists of Anen and MKA. I don't even see how anyone can come to this weird conclusion and frankly I would be even more confident that you are scum if you were right in your theory.

So you're suspicious of things titus has done. Lovely.

@1230: So what you're saying is that you haven't got a reply for the questions I directed to you.

Something something lynch titus.

This has basically been the entire game.

And I'm sick of it.

~tn5421

[Mad King Ashnard]

Hey Ranger,

This has basically been the entire game.

And I'm sick of it.

~tn5421

You guys so fucking started it.
I was perfectly happy to not go near her for a while until YOU came in and voted us after Titus townread me.

[Mad King Ashnard]

Ranger, consider Almost50 confirmed town.

What are your reads in this game?

[davesaz]

Hey Ranger,

This has basically been the entire game.

And I'm sick of it.

~tn5421

You guys so fucking started it.
I was perfectly happy to not go near her for a while until YOU came in and voted us after Titus townread me.

Reads?

[Burning Crystal]

I've got Anen and MKA as scum with Chilledtea, Ranger, Kain and Kop as PoE possible scum.

Dave, Almost, Xtoxm, Acryon are town and I don't see myself voting for them unless TN feels a strong desire to lynch them and consults with me first and gets on the same page. (If I wasn't hydraing, I'd say I'd never vote them).

@Acryon, I disagree on the "responsible" thing being not to speculate. That's part of the reason I feel intelligence is scumread. By figuring out what must exist, you can figure out what claims can or cannot happen and therefore what must be true. You realize what happened when I posted my setup? No one tried to say it was wrong, people went straight to scumslip rather than giving feedback. That tells me I was right.

Oh and to whoever asked, what

scum

says I was in jail oh by the way there's a missing kill? It doesn't happen.

@MKA, Bullshit on us starting it. We had a scumread on you. That doesn't justify a petulant attitude where scumhunting stops. Yet, that's perfectly convenient for you. Vote park someone you have a history with and blame

them

for your inability to scumhunt. That's EXACTLY RC's playbook from the last game we played together. She vote parked me since Day 1 when I was wrong on a read and you expect me to buy RC has nothing to do with this? Despite posting elsewhere under the same alt?

~Titus

[Ranger]

You're really saying that people don't vote for reactions for good reason?

Voting for pressure, as long as it's not explicitly stated to be a pressure-vote, is fine.

That is not voting for reactions.
That is

certainly

not FoSing for reactions.

So yes. I call BS.

The scum motivation is to put a vote out on someone controversial so it doesn't look like you're just sitting back, but then not go anywhere with it so you have no PR blood on your hands if he were to be lynched and flip PR.

I take full responsibility each time I'm wrong. I never expect any less.

So, no.

Someone asked you if you were veering away from believing me to be town and you say yes, and then damn me for potentially veering from a townread on someone else.

The difference is: when I was asked if I was steering away from a townread, I unambiguously and bluntly said "yes, I am, I'm scumreading acryon for these reasons".
When you veered away from Burning Crystal, you did so as a strong waffle.

Ranger, consider Almost50 confirmed town.

What are your reads in this game?

Unchanged except for the maybe-need for one extra person as scum. {acryon, Kop, Almost50, Burning Crystal} is where I'm looking at. So if Almost50 were removed, then I'd assume either we're in a 3-scum setup or I'm townreading one scum.

[Xtoxm]

dodge

[Almost50]

dodge

Chevrolet