Paint Mafia! - Game Over!

[acryon]

VOTE: Skybird

"I'm not scum this game". Sounds like something scum would say.

[acryon]

Sky's wagon is stupid even for RVS standards and I'm curious as to why people are choosing that one over Froggy.

Why do we like froggy's?

[acryon]

And can't say I'm a fan of Froggy's one content post.

Froggy why lilith over anyone else on your wagon?

Do you take issue with the fact that he only has one content post, or you have an issue with the post?

[acryon]

I just tried to think of a reason for disliking the Skybird wagon but I can't so I'm just going to stop.

I approve of competing Skybird-Frogger wagons.

But Frogger is scummier.

Hmmm, do you mind answering my question still?

[acryon]

Do you take issue with the fact that he only has one content post, or you have an issue with the post?

The post itself.

It looks like he noticed a wagon forming and was like "Oh I better do something" and focused his attention on how to handle the paint mechanic. I expect more.

What do you think of this?

I'm wary of anyone who says they want to flip color to prove they are conftown.

I'd rather find red flips.

[acryon]

That literally proves my point.

PEdit: Nope

Except he is one of the few people that had even done anything. Not sure I ever like the idea of punishing activity, especially this early.

[acryon]

lol

Nice talking to you.

[acryon]

That literally proves my point.

PEdit: Nope

Except he is one of the few people that had even done anything. Not sure I ever like the idea of punishing activity, especially this early.

How is this punishing activity? So I should not push someone I am scum reading just because they might have more posts than someone else? Do you not see a problem with this approach?

PEdit: Froggy sorry you drew scum this game

That is certainly not what I am suggesting. But everyone makes the shift from "RVS lulz" to real activity at some point. Is it opportunistic that his shift occurred after a wagon formed on him? Maybe, but when would you suggest he shift?

[acryon]

When did I say I didn't want you colour flipped? It was more of a general comment than anything else. No-one 100% thinks you're scum 4 pages in. At least I hope not.

At one point is anyone 100% thinking someone is scum, especially on D1? At what point does everyone know X is scum?

@Spiffeh: Why does it seem like you don't want to answer my questions?

[acryon]

I was going to wait until he actually responded to me, but now that others are just jumping right in I feel less of a need to wait.

VOTE: Spiffeh

[acryon]

Both of them are chainsawing the wagon on me - specifcally at spiffeh.

I defend people from dumb wagons. It's what I do.

[acryon]

Also, Davsto and Acryon worry me.

I think Acryon just doesn't know how I operate, so that's mostly null.

This could be. We'll just have to get to know each other

[acryon]

I was going to wait until he actually responded to me, but now that others are just jumping right in I feel less of a need to wait.

VOTE: Spiffeh

So... what? The wagon starts moving, and suddenly it makes more sense for you to just vote him instead of listening for the responses you wanted in the first place?

I still wanted to hear the responses, but I also know that a nice wagon makes for some good pressure.

[acryon]

I don't like the idea of anyone goading anyone else into voting for them. Others have said it, but we need to be looking for red checks, not blue checks. Obviously color miller/godfather throws this stuff off, but there's still no reason for us to look for blue as it just means we have a slightly-conf town that is dying at night.

[acryon]

I don't like the idea of anyone goading anyone else into voting for them. Others have said it, but we need to be looking for red checks, not blue checks. Obviously color miller/godfather throws this stuff off, but there's still no reason for us to look for blue as it just means we have a slightly-conf town that is dying at night.

Do you have a useful contribution, or is this it?

You can read the other stuff I said before the walls. You can also learn to be sarcastic once you've actually posted more than one post that wasn't you misremembering something from a very small amount of pages.

[acryon]

Sarcastic isn't the right word, but I'd rather not use another one.

[acryon]

You can read the other stuff I said before the walls.

I did. Are you going to make a case against Spiffeh other than what you've already posted? Because it's not convincing and it doesn't look like you're scumhunting otherwise.

I'm not interested in making a case against Spiffeh at the moment, because I think he did ok responding to the things that were asked of him. I ask questions when I feel there is a good question to be asked. I make observations when I feel I have something I want to say. Everybody has moments where they post and moments where they don't. Currently I'm not but will when I feel I have something to say.

[acryon]

Let's talk though since you've inspired me.

VOTE: Fro99er

And your desire to get flipped blue is what, Fro99er?

Lol what?

I have zero desire to get flipped

Point taken. Misremembered something from your ISO. I was thinking of your 79, but that's more resignment than anything. And your 62 pretty much closes that.

So was your push on AA in 162 solely to goad a reaction out of the slot or do you have actual reasons as well?

Do you take issue with the comment about AA in 162 if it's just for reactions? Your vote is still hanging out on Froggy.

[acryon]

Davsto and Acryon's "100% sure" talk and weird defenses of Frogger are bad and lame.

You are lame.

But in your defense, I was thinking last night at home about how I wasn't happy with my play this game. I'll be better.

[acryon]

Catching up in a bit.

[acryon]

TSO has been inactive like this as town in games I've been in with him before and never as scum. I'd rather flip someone else. I've played with him as scum enough, that while he's really good, I think I might be able to figure it out now if he is.

I'm always wary of these kinds of claims.

I dislike the idea of us color-flipping someone based on a perceived activity discrepancy from their meta.

I don't hate this:

Actually I'm leaning back towards the lurkers that I'm ok with losing if scum decide to nightkill them as conf towns.

Skybird, lilith, West9, Mario

I think we should flip one of them.

I do think lurkers are a fine idea for a color-flip for exactly the reasons he mentions.

I kinda feel it's wasted on me? I know other people would like to see me flip blue, but I'd rather just verify myself by lynching scum.

Agree.

Yeah, TSO is too worried about being flipped.

We must flip him today folks!!

~SW

I don't necessarily want to be color-flipped as town either, because then it means scum are killing me at night and I don't get to play anymore.

VOTE: lilith

Do you have an actual reason for this, or do you just not like me?

Does he need one?

Is there a reason you decided to step in here before letting him answer? Because yeah, he probably needs one.

Not enjoying the idea of this townblock. A bit too much reckless abandon in there for it to be beneficial to the town.

Especially given Skybird's replacement now, it seems odd to question her posting style as being different from normal town play, as it seems clear her life situation made this unavoidable. Meta sucks, and I say we go after another lurker who (in my opinion) has been very temporarily cleared by her RL. Yes, it's a null, but so is the meta argument in the first place.

[acryon]

Almost forgot!
VOTE: MarioManic

[acryon]

OK I'm reading and I'd like you all to hold up and ask you this.
Why does "I'm not scum this game" sound like something scum would say?

I can't speak for the others, but I was in RVS mode.

[acryon]

Frogger has just become an innocent child for me!

Why?

[acryon]

Frogger has just become an innocent child for me!

Why?

I've played three games with frog (iirc). In all we were both town. And in all I correctly townread him (and coincidentally, he incorrectly scumread me.) When I looked at a frog scumread I didn't get the same vibe.
It was because of his tone. It's something I can't explain and don't expect you to sheep.

Fair enough for now.

[acryon]

This raises alarms. Spiff and AA are kinda proposing that we flip the same people for the same reasons, and you're praising one and vilifying the other.

There is a difference. One is proposing we flip someone for playing contrary to their meta. The other is proposing flipping people for being lurkers. While both of them might be proposing we flip the same people, I disagree with the idea of flipping someone based on a meta call.

[acryon]

West-those names are a list of people not playing much if at all so I want to see their color.

Actually I'm leaning back towards the lurkers that I'm ok with losing if scum decide to nightkill them as conf towns.

Nah, I still don't see a difference in these two ideologies that's big enough for you to say that one is bad and the other is good.

That is a

much

later quote of AA's, and it's obviously not the one I was comparing to.

[acryon]

Like, I might be reading this wrong, but you're responding to a post where AA says "we shouldn't flip TSO for these reasons" by saying "the reasons AA has for wanting to flip TSO are bad." So, it's silly on a couple of levels.

You are reading it wrong. Look at my post again, look at the context of the posts I'm discussing and think about it again. Note that I didn't quote AA's post in my post, but 249 is the one I was referring to.

[acryon]

Hey acryon, why don't you ask about it? West is right. I mostly want to flip those barely playing because I'm willing to bet there is scum in there. I'm also scumreading some of those players. I'm scumreading you for your weird insistence on calling us out on this BS point, your defense of Skybird who I know quite well not only from here but offsite, and your casting shade on any sore of townblock formation. Like, recklessness is a town tell as far as I'm concerned so that's not a reason to not like players who have played together and are townreading each other to try to work together.

Anything else, ask instead of assume because assuming just makes an ass out of U and you.

~SW

Why do I need to ask about it when I can read what you wrote?

And I told you and everyone else I agree with going after nulls/lurkers like any other daycop would. My issue was never with that idea, it was with the initial idea which was a desire to flip Skybird based on a meta issue.

My issue with the townblock is that I don't trust reckless players. It has nothing to do with what is and isn't a towntell. I would just rather not have a bunch of loose cannons running the show.

[acryon]

TSO has been inactive like this as town in games I've been in with him before and never as scum. I'd rather flip someone else.

Nah, I still think that interpreting this as "a perceived activity discrepancy from their meta" is ridiculous and something you're doing to try and throw shit on AA.

P-EDIT: Oh, you're talking about the Skybird vote? Is that why you quoted silverwolf's post about TSO and the skybird vote? To make a point about the skybird vote?

Ahhhhhh. Now that I am reading my post I see why that makes little sense. I took issue with SW's claim of being able to figure out TSO's alignment. Seperately, I took issue with the AA post about Skybird. I must have thought I quoted 249 and didn't.

[acryon]

Well it's really quite obvious to me acryon you ask for clarification on something instead of confusing he issue and muddying the waters. West seemed to get a different interpretation of what we meant than you did, so the logical progression of that is you continue to assume something that may or may not be true or you ask us what we meant.

I mean this is just simple logic and I'm surprised I need to even explain it.

This issue appears to be that I left out a quote. I don't agree that I misunderstood you.

As far as being reckless is concerned, feel free at any time to question our methods and add your own input. My problem w you is you put doubt on people trying to work with their townreads and I fail to see much town motivation in that.

Town needs a devil's advocate, especially in the presence of recklessness.

[acryon]

Not enjoying the idea of this townblock. A bit too much reckless abandon in there for it to be beneficial to the town.

Especially given Skybird's replacement now, it seems odd to question her posting style as being different from normal town play, as it seems clear her life situation made this unavoidable. Meta sucks, and I say we go after another lurker who (in my opinion) has been very temporarily cleared by her RL. Yes, it's a null, but so is the meta argument in the first place.

This is scum with skybird.

Is placing me as a scumbuddy with Skybird for a blatant defense really the best you have? Like do you really have to call it out? This isn't groundbreaking stuff. Anyone can read the post and see I'm very clearly principally against some of the reasons for her wagon.

this supposed townblock is giving me the heebie jeebies

Glad I'm not the only one.

Almost forgot!
VOTE: MarioManic

wtf is this.

Ignorance of top discussions of the day noted.

Read my post and maybe this would make sense. I agree with the idea of flipping a lurker/null slot, and agreed with the list Spiff posted of potentials. Mario was among them and one I'd like to flip. What's there to not get?

[acryon]

Yikes a lot of *big* personalities here.

Let's all play nice

[acryon]

I'm not staying in.

Mafia is a shitty game that makes people disrespectful and treat each other like shit.

I fucking hate it.

If your RL is going to cause you to take a break from the game because you're upset, that's fine; take the break. The only reason anyone is upset is because you chose to stay in the game and engage a player who was already getting under your skin while you were (understandably) feeling upset IRL. Just step away for a day and come back.

[acryon]

Always a good reminder for everyone, even if this is just a game.

[acryon]

Eh yeah I don't actually hate a color-flip on TSO. I suck at reading him too.

VOTE: T S O

[acryon]

Hey Cheet

not sure if you prefer a PM or posting in the thread, but I'll be V/LA until Monday morning my time.

[acryon]

town dav wouldn't say something like that

How many games have you played with him?

[acryon]

quite a few.

Do you often place a lot of emphasis on meta/experience?

[acryon]

VOTE: Acryon

Fairly sure this is scum.

Must sheep the daycop

VOTE: Acryon

I didn't even see RC voted for me... Come on, RC.

[acryon]

quite a few.

Do you often place a lot of emphasis on meta/experience?

lots? no. Some? yes.

How often do these meta checks turn out to be correct? Do you have any other reason to think he's scum?

[acryon]

VOTE: Acryon

Fairly sure this is scum.

Must sheep the daycop

VOTE: Acryon

I didn't even see RC voted for me... Come on, RC.

don't 'come on' me.

if you didn't want to be voted, then you shouldn't have rolled scum.

Unfortunately I didn't. I love being scum.

[acryon]

DGB and awesome need to go. I agree. Spiffeh, you know hiplop but ika seems to think he's spazzy when he's town like he is now.

Eh, he played like this the one game I recall playing with him and he was scum.

I know some people won't like this but the timing of Skybird's replace out REALLY does not sit well with me.

I finally caught up.

DGB, you always scum read me. Maybe you should read some of my games you weren't in and check my alignment in them to get a better read on me.

Town reads so far: Frogger, Spiffeh, Aero.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to keep up this game.

In this post, Skybird does say she might not be able to keep up.

But then she replaces out like 11 posts later. It's not like there were pages and pages since her last post, so what exactly happened in those 11 posts that caused her to make the decision that she was only considering before?

It was the three votes she accumulated within those 11 posts!!!!!!!

What's sketchy here is that when the game is actually fast paced when she posts the above, she is still waffling on whether to replace out. But then when 11 posts crop up within 7 hours, THAT'S when she decides to replace out. This makes it very clear that it was the votes on her that made her replace out.

Even throwing all of this away, her few content posts were really cookie cutter and mostly full of excuses.

And I think hiplop faked frustration at being suspected "because he wasn't given a chance".

To be fair, a game

is

harder to keep up with when people think you're scum. If you're town and no one suspects you, there's less pressure. If you're town and suspected, there is a lot of pressure, and often a lot of back and forth. Skybird could very well have replaced out because of the votes on her and it still wouldn't make her scum. [I now just read that RC already sort of said this. Leaving it anyway.]

Are you saying you scum read me in History Mafia for going all out toe to toe with you and now you're scum reading me here for not doing anything? Or have I missed something?

THIS IS AWFUL HOLY SHIT

Why is this awful?

Alright, so I'm going to try and provide short catch ups as I go along. There is no way I will get it all done tonight and I'm going to try and avoid asking questions because it's most likely out of date and they've probably already been asked at some point. It's mostly for me to get a handle on the game.

First 5 pages - I'm unsure on AA. I didn't like their reasoning around the Sky and Fro99er wagons (66) (there were people, like Aero, who also jumped on the Sky wagon with very little/no reasoning). I didn't know how to feel about offering to be colour flipped and seeming so assured that them flipping blue would confirm them as town, I also thought they WIFOM'ed with the first post pretty hard and it felt like cheeky scum. I don't know, I just have a bad gut feeling about the slot so far.

I'm liking Spiffeh early game; I particularly like his 67/73[/post] - feels like impulsive town, not so sure that scum would post so freely.

Don't particularly like Davsto's set up talk early on, but I like the reasoning behind his push on Spiffeh, even if I don't agree with it.

Umm, Awesome and Aero could be town, Acryon and Lilith could be scum. Everyone else is a blend of meh.

How did this turn into a vote on Davsto?

[acryon]

Hey BBT:

Alright, so I'm going to try and provide short catch ups as I go along. There is no way I will get it all done tonight and I'm going to try and avoid asking questions because it's most likely out of date and they've probably already been asked at some point. It's mostly for me to get a handle on the game.

First 5 pages - I'm unsure on AA. I didn't like their reasoning around the Sky and Fro99er wagons (66) (there were people, like Aero, who also jumped on the Sky wagon with very little/no reasoning). I didn't know how to feel about offering to be colour flipped and seeming so assured that them flipping blue would confirm them as town, I also thought they WIFOM'ed with the first post pretty hard and it felt like cheeky scum. I don't know, I just have a bad gut feeling about the slot so far.

I'm liking Spiffeh early game; I particularly like his 67/73[/post] - feels like impulsive town, not so sure that scum would post so freely.

Don't particularly like Davsto's set up talk early on, but I like the reasoning behind his push on Spiffeh, even if I don't agree with it.

Umm, Awesome and Aero could be town, Acryon and Lilith could be scum. Everyone else is a blend of meh.

How did this turn into a vote on Davsto?

[acryon]

Nah, fuck this.

If you think I'm reading another 20 pages just to get lynched you better think again. I'm done, lynch me.

Can you answer my question in 918 at least?

[acryon]

What was it?

I linked the post man...

Alright, so I'm going to try and provide short catch ups as I go along. There is no way I will get it all done tonight and I'm going to try and avoid asking questions because it's most likely out of date and they've probably already been asked at some point. It's mostly for me to get a handle on the game.

First 5 pages - I'm unsure on AA. I didn't like their reasoning around the Sky and Fro99er wagons (66) (there were people, like Aero, who also jumped on the Sky wagon with very little/no reasoning). I didn't know how to feel about offering to be colour flipped and seeming so assured that them flipping blue would confirm them as town, I also thought they WIFOM'ed with the first post pretty hard and it felt like cheeky scum. I don't know, I just have a bad gut feeling about the slot so far.

I'm liking Spiffeh early game; I particularly like his 67/73[/post] - feels like impulsive town, not so sure that scum would post so freely.

Don't particularly like Davsto's set up talk early on, but I like the reasoning behind his push on Spiffeh, even if I don't agree with it.

Umm, Awesome and Aero could be town, Acryon and Lilith could be scum. Everyone else is a blend of meh.

How did this turn into a vote on Davsto?

[acryon]

what are your reads looking like right now?

can you link me some posts from your big town/scumreads that give you those reads?

I don't think you need to wait on people for their reads. You can make your own.

[acryon]

Can we lynch Tammy hydra?

Who is Tammy?

[acryon]

Nah, fuck this.

If you think I'm reading another 20 pages just to get lynched you better think again. I'm done, lynch me.

That's a townie sentiment.

Not that I put much stock into meta, but I'm assuming you've played with BBT before. Does this strike you as something he has done/would potentially do as town when frustrated?

[acryon]

Jesus Christ, there are two days left.

Lynch me already.

If you're town why would you say this? It's fine if you're not feeling the game, but then replace out, don't tell people to lynch you.

[acryon]

Leaving someone to come into this slot isn't fair.

I would say it because I'm not invested in the game and I'm currently a waste of a slot. Town have no direction and they have landed on the first random wagon that got started up.

Like seriously, just lynch me. I deleted all my notes and everything. I'm worthless to this game.

I feel like you've been around long enough to know better than this. It's more unfair for the town to be left with someone playing against their wincon. In my opinion there are two respectable choices: 1) read up and play or 2) replace out.

[acryon]

To be clear I want you to do the former, because I think you'll be good for town if you're around. But at the very least don't play against your wincon.

[acryon]

what do we even lose by not hammering

Eh I guess the opportunity for someone to say something they were intending on saying today but may not get a chance to if they get NK'd.

[acryon]

just curious, I haven't played with DGB before (well she replaced into a game after I died but I'd hardly call that "playing with"), why would she be a good flip?

Ta.

Seems like a slot that is hard to read, especially given the general brevity of her posts.

[acryon]

Agree with Ari on pretty much everything in the past couple pages. DGB's BBT vote wasn't particularly inspiring either, which makes me even more interested in sorting out the slot.

[acryon]

Whoops didn't realize I missed a page.

Sure, colour flip me.

I lead the lynch after.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Enough of this from people. Likely no one is going to pursue someone willing to colour flip themselves, so it's just posturing, which benefits no one. If you want people to follow you, give me a reason to that doesn't involve us wasting a color flip on a townie.

Finding scum is easy.
Persuading town to lynch scum is next to impossible.

I don't have the energy to convince anyone. sheep me if you will.

Something doesn't compute here. It's only next to impossible because you admittedly aren't willing to try. This is the same thing you did in the last game we played together. You need to earn the town-cred, which you haven't done.

And so I've read through and including page 20.

Spoiler:

Ew @ everyone on the Froggy wagon

What
The.....The wagon you built?
What?

Why the FUCK did no one say anything about this?



Jk I read more and I thunk about things and youre town but this kinda made my head turn. Post 400-something you said something that made me feel better tho, some sentiment about not wanting to join a shitty town bloc if you'd be ignoring the people outside of it, idk it felt town-telly to me

so is it bad im already starting to scum read bbt?

No, because I felt the same bad feels in my gut

Then I remembered that bbt was day 1 lynch and flipped scum, soo *validation*

So pending review you might get some brownie points here.

-------

AA and Pisskop back and forth around page 18 or 19 or whatever is TvT.

Everyone encouraging people to flip them = stop that shit

Team scum is BBT/RadiantCowbells/Acryon/Skybird

Did I win?

This is what you got from those 10 pages? Especially considering the bulk of your post is just making a statement and cancelling it out.

[acryon]

quick question: was I right or wrong last game, on everything besides Titus for whom my motivations should be pretty clear in postgame.
was I right or wrong on BBT?

how many times is it gonna take before I can get some leverage over you. don't be like FA who still ignores my reads time and time again.

Lol well you were wrong about more than just Titus, which we talked about in post-game. There were several others you said were probably scum that were not. There's a reason town doesn't always just come into the game and sheep the person with the most experience. That’s not how the game works for a number of reasons, and you know that. If you want to convince me that someone is scum, convince me by your case, not your character.

[acryon]

*shrug*
there were huge gaps in the certainties between the different things.
I said to autolynch mm4 because I was dead 100% sure he was scum. you didn't.
if that's not going to convince you plus a cop flip nothing else that I say is going to.

Again those things have nothing to do with who is scum. "I'm the cop; person X is scum" doesn't mean anything unless you red-checked them. I can be convinced, but by a case not your personal certainty about who is scum. People are fallible, and that includes you and your gut feelings.

[acryon]

I'm not sure overall his ISO tells us much except it makes me townread Davsto more and possibly RC as well.

Like you alluded to, the problem with his ISO is that he was in the hotseat so quickly, he was never really able to form strong statements. Additionally, because it was so quick, he could have easily recognized he was going down with the ship and resolved to throw us off as much as possible. Unfortunately, it's probably best to ignore most of his ISO. Best we can get from him is how others interacted with him I think.

[acryon]

Obviously I can't force anyone to do anything, but it would make at least my life easier if people referred to hydra/alt players by something at least close to their name in this game.

[acryon]

I feel that scum!RC would stubbornly keep messing around even though it's anti-town because, let's face it, he'd probably get townread for it.

This is such a weird and specific conclusion to draw. On top of that, it would become clear soon enough that there was no FA alt in the game, so your reasoning involving RC continuing seems additionally silly.

[acryon]

I feel that scum!RC would stubbornly keep messing around even though it's anti-town because, let's face it, he'd probably get townread for it.

This is such a weird and specific conclusion to draw. On top of that, it would become clear soon enough that there was no FA alt in the game, so your reasoning involving RC continuing seems additionally silly.

Have you played with RC before?

Scum!RC would probably keep pissing about like that until he actually were in danger of being lynched for it.

It seems like an odd conclusion, but it makes sense for RC in my head.

I mean do you have an example of a similar scenario where Scum!RC did do this? Because it is a very specific conclusion to make based simply on general experience playing with RC.

[acryon]

I mean it's a general feeling

But I seem to remember Mafia Café having him also mess around, but people's complaints didn't really do much

Honestly at this point I'm trying to justify gut feelings which is ehh but I'm trying

I'll be honest with you. This feels to me like buddying. I don't think town!Davesto has a good enough reason to make the claim that you did.

You seem like a slot that town could benefit from sorting out.

VOTE: Davsto

[acryon]

You seem like a slot that is rather mislead.

This is fairly normal for me. My logic can sometimes be a bit weird and probably not the best explained.

So how am I to differentiate you from scum if you're bringing forth logic which is potentially flawed? Because scum do that too. This is why I am in favor of a color flip for you. Seems like the ideal kind of candidate.

[acryon]

Seriously, ask anyone. I'm piss easy to read. I literally do not have a scum game where I haven't been lynched.

Flipping me is a waste of what is essentially a public cop.

Well democracy will always decide, but self-meta isn't doing it for me so my vote will be staying and I hope others join me. Also that idea is fairly weak considering of the 6 full games you've played as mafia, while three involved you being lynched D1 (although scum won all of these games), the other three you were lynched D3 or later, and even D6 one game, so I don't know that you being "piss-easy to read" is entirely accurate.

Also who would you color-flip here?

[acryon]

Spiff or West. I could be convinced on MM but that'd be a compromise in my eyes rather than an actual worthy target.

Why would they be good targets? Also why haven't you voted or tried to get other people on board with one of these two?

[acryon]

Hmm, this weird hivemind makes me nervous.

[acryon]

Hmm, this weird hivemind makes me nervous.

whos hiveminding?

Spiff had no traction and then Davesto mentions him after I ask him a question and immediately pisskop, you, and now elbirn jump on board. Not to mention a flip on Spiff seems terrible.

[acryon]

well i mean we arent getting anything done at this point and nobody seems to be trying anymore to get the DGB/awsome/MM stuff sorted out

i mena i primarly want lynches in there for real flips but color im jsut kinda whatever at it

Well you shouldn't be whatever about it, because if we color flip a strong player, then we are losing a strong townie now that we may want to have around later.

And whose fault is it that nobody is trying anymore to get that stuff sorted out? If you want to get it sorted out, then, idk, maybe try and sort it out? Ask some questions?

[acryon]

the edit was at acryon but to further my poitn, how am i suppose to sort them when they are not here to ebgin with?

TSO was different because he hadn't done anything yet. We didn't know what he was going to bring this game, especially given his statements about activity restrictions IIRC, so I disagree that color-flipping him yesterday and color-flipping Spiff today would be for simialr reasoning.

I agree you can't sort people that aren't here, but you stated that the issue was people not trying, which I challenged you on. If the issue is that they aren't here, then that's more legitimate, but that's not what you said.

[acryon]

yet what i say vs what could be happening are two diffrent things......

i mean do you see DGB or awsome hydra around at all? if so show me where they are.

taking what i say to its roots does nothign for me cus i am just impuse sayer

It just pings me when it appears like people are trying to misrepresent the situation, which it looked like maybe you were trying to.

Wanna colour flip DGB and lynch Mario?

Obviously flip can adjust things, but I'm on board with this in theory. Although I would prefer to flip Davsto.

[acryon]

It just pings me when it appears like people are trying to misrepresent the situation, which it looked like maybe you were trying to.

*shrugs*

wasnt my intention to misrepresent it

I am in agreement with you on that now, but I would have been remiss if I didn't challenge you on it.

[acryon]

@acryon, can you explain why you weren't on the BBT wagon even though you were scumreading him?

Well to be honest I wouldn't say I was totally scumreading him. I thought some of the things he was saying were a little off, hence my questioning him. So it was more I wasn't confident enough in it to put my vote out especially near the end of the wagon, but I also didn't have issues with the wagon enough to defend him, especially for a D1 lynch.

[acryon]

@Mod

: V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[acryon]

I don't like how Marquis has led us on two bad colorflips and tried to divert us off Mario repeatedly. Mario dies today. Period.

VOTE: Mario

~SW

How does this make sense? If you think there is some sort of chainsawing there, don't you flip Marquis first?

[acryon]

VOTE: Spiffeh

ika and I had a phone call about this and we think he's scum

He neighborized us and has not talked to us at all in the hood, he is not sharing reads or showing any interest in the game at all. If you notice, his BBT interactions are awful and the idea of being color flipped upsets him. He isn't doing anything in this game either. We strongly feel he needs to be flipped ASAP.

~SW

This is pretty null. If he was scum, why would he neighborize you in order to be silent? The whole point would be to convince you he's town/string you along with his reads.

[acryon]

no vote, mario?

also, name names. who are you accusing of deflating the awesomewagon momentum?

1. i dunno if i wanna vote Espe or elbirn.
2. there is no singular moment. i am accusing nobody in specific, because it literally just vanished overnight.
i guess anyone who created or hardpushed another wagon would technically count? imo it reflects badly on awesome mostly rather than anyone else.

So someone's wagon falls apart and your prime suspect is the person who the wagon was on?

[acryon]

How do you figure he's trying to discredit you?

Hey AnxietyAttack: You didn't answer this question regarding your comment about me. Kind of a big statement to make if you're not willing to back it up.

Also while I have you, how does this:

Mario has had a very erratic game similar to his scum meta.
~SW

match up with this:

Yeah, The first time I played with Mario scum, he was very lurky.

The other game, he was active but kind of all over the place and it was hard to figure out his read progression on anything.

I kind of get that vibe here where he pops in every once in awhile but doesn't have much to say, but mostly just kind of meh.

I don't really see any serious scumhunting and just by PoE I can at put him in the possible scum category.

~SW

Is his scum meta active or lurky? It seems you can't even decide, so how are you saying his game here matches his scum-meta?

[acryon]

Mario can do both as scum. He can lurk like hell and he can post very irratically. Do not put words in my mouth. Where did I say inactive? Acryon, get to the point. Your constant attempts to discredit our mario push are pissing me off. Give me your read on mario and us as well.

~SW

Are you kidding? Here is where you said active:

Yeah, The first time I played with Mario scum, he was very lurky.

The other game, he was

active

but kind of all over the place and it was hard to figure out his read progression on anything.

I kind of get that vibe here where he pops in every once in awhile but doesn't have much to say, but mostly just kind of meh.

I don't really see any serious scumhunting and just by PoE I can at put him in the possible scum category.

~SW

And this is my point. You say Mario can do both lurk and post erratically as scum, so how can you say a game matches his scum meta when even his scum meta isn't definitive.

[acryon]

Missed Papa's posts but it looks like he said a lot of what I said.

[acryon]

I have a really hard time typing your name and I dunno why.

My fingers just wanna go arcyon.

wtf fingers

lol yeah people call me arc all the time.

[acryon]

And this is my point. You say Mario can do both lurk and post erratically as scum, so how can you say a game matches his scum meta when even his scum meta isn't definitive.

Cus meta is not only about their posting style its about mindsets

1) Meta is bad, and 2) Even if it's about mindsets, my point still stands that your reasoning has numerous flaws. It assumes that Mario posts erratically only as scum which is 1) unlikely and 2) you have no evidence to back up. If you want to talk about the mindset, fine. Tell me why post X is coming from scum, why posts Y & Z look like posturing, etc.

Your argument sucks and I think you're better players than your argument is leading on.

VOTE: Anxiety Attack

Also, you STILL have not answered lillith's question, which is a valid one. If you're throwing out serious accusations, you'd have better have a reason behind it.

This Mario push is soft. The resistance in total to it is generally too soft for it to be an all-town wagon and the specific defenders are too blatant for them to be scum.

[acryon]

Can't argue that when the only defenders of BBT (who were the same people fwiw) were equally blatant.

Bad.

Ari wasn't blatantly defending BBT. Awesome's slot was defending BBT but has not defended Mario. Who exactly are you talking about?

[acryon]

VOTE: Frogger
Buddied BBT. Obvscum IMO.

I have a townread on BBT because meta.

In all seriousness, the way pressure flows onto him seems strange, in a way I don't like. In both terms of the word. It feels like nobody is defending him yet the wagon is stillish; bark but without the bite. Not sure about reading BBT as in the posts themselves; I'd disagree that feeling weird is a scumtell for BBT

I think the best option is to lynch BBT. I don't really see town!BBT doing this that much. I think it's WIFOM created to try and get a counterwagon started (BBT!scum would have to do something dramatic to not get lynched, as there are no other counterwagons really. I can see scum in his position going for the risk.)

VOTE: BBT

Now

it's L1.

So NOBODY misses this, it's L1. Do not hammer unless that is your full intent.

What do these posts have to do with our discussion? Your point was that the same people who defended BBT are the ones defending Mario. So why did you quote a bunch of Mario posts?

[acryon]

Other people are yourself and Aristo, yeah.

What do you mean other people? People other than Mario? That's a ridiculous thing to say for one because of course he is going to defend himself, and for two, Ari was not a defender of BBT.

[acryon]

Can someone tell me why AnxietyAttack isn't scummy re: 1705? Is it just residual towncred from D1? That's certainly what it feels like.

[acryon]

And this is my point. You say Mario can do both lurk and post erratically as scum, so how can you say a game matches his scum meta when even his scum meta isn't definitive.

Cus meta is not only about their posting style its about mindsets

1) Meta is bad, and 2) Even if it's about mindsets, my point still stands that your reasoning has numerous flaws. It assumes that Mario posts erratically only as scum which is 1) unlikely and 2) you have no evidence to back up. If you want to talk about the mindset, fine. Tell me why post X is coming from scum, why posts Y & Z look like posturing, etc.

Your argument sucks and I think you're better players than your argument is leading on.

VOTE: Anxiety Attack

Also, you STILL have not answered lillith's question, which is a valid one. If you're throwing out serious accusations, you'd have better have a reason behind it.

This Mario push is soft. The resistance in total to it is generally too soft for it to be an all-town wagon and the specific defenders are too blatant for them to be scum.

You don't seem to realize how little I give a shit about your opinion. I'm going through hell in my personal life and I simply don't give a shit about this game. If ika cares, he can respond. I simply do not give a damn. If you lynch us, when we flip town, you need to die next. Other than that, don't fucking interact with me at all. Talk to ika.

~SW

Nobody said you personally had to respond and I certainly can't control which one of you does so. I don't understand why you couldn't just say "those were comments/arguments from the other half of the hydra, so he can respond." I truly am sorry that your personal life is a mess at the moment, but if you're going to just say screw you to interacting with people that are just asking normal mafia questions, then frankly you should just just not play.

[acryon]

^ I feel like I should point out that this is a good time to end this conversation. Otherwise tempers fly and flaming happens and people get hurt.

This is just a preemptive thought because I see this far too often in Mafia.

Right, and it's nearly impossible to get me upset over mafia, so you don't have to worry about my side. But I don't think it's appropriate for someone's personal life to shield them from questions in the game (not that this is what SW is trying to do, but I want to ensure AA isn't getting a pass because of it), because what's the point in playing then? I don't believe any of my questions have been even close to out of line or even remotely close to personally attacking, but if someone disagrees I'd be happy to hear them out. If no one disagrees, then I don't think my line of questioning should be stopped just because a player doesn't like being questioned. That's how we find mafia. That's how we play the game.

[acryon]

Acryon-Ask me whatever you want. If we are lynched, I want town to find the scum that jumped on us for NAI behavior. Like Papa Zito for example.

You can ISO and see we are town. Fuck your questions. I don't care.

What's so hard to understand about that? I do not care right now. ika is working all day. Maybe he'll feel like addressing this.

Or you can call this AtE, lynch us and we can hang out in the dead thread with Cheetory when we flip town.

I DON'T CARE. GET IT YET?

~SW

Are these not fairly standard questions? I honestly don't understand the hostility. If you are having difficulty handling the game emotionally because of outside factors (and this is no slight, as everyone has their hard times which can make it difficult to play), then it's best not to play, because staying in is only causing others to enjoy the game less on top of the individual probably not enjoying it much either. I don't want to make anyone mad. I just want to play the game. But when someone just refuses to engage with me on basic questioning which is the heart of mafia, then I just don't know what to do. Why are we playing anymore at that point?

[acryon]

Arrite that's fair. I have some Qs out, let's see what shakes

VOTE: Anxiety Attack

AA raises a good point.
What makes the slot scummy and vote worthy?

Who is this directed at? If me, then 1705 is a succinct showing of why I think AA is scum. 1) Presenting arguments that the slot has enough experience to know better than try to push. 2) Dodging simple questions including an unwillingness to back up claim that I was trying to discredit them with their Spiffeh and Mario push.

[acryon]

Arrite that's fair. I have some Qs out, let's see what shakes

VOTE: Anxiety Attack

AA raises a good point.
What makes the slot scummy and vote worthy?

Who is this directed at? If me, then 1705 is a succinct showing of why I think AA is scum. 1) Presenting arguments that the slot has enough experience to know better than try to push. 2) Dodging simple questions including an unwillingness to back up claim that I was trying to discredit them with their Spiffeh and Mario push.

Moreso at Zito, thus the quote.

I've read 1705 and see the points, just not sold on it.

That's fair, which is why I was hoping my questioning could get us somewhere, since I know towncred is very hard to overcome.

[acryon]

OK your first point is BS plain and simple. Who cares how good we are at the game? You think good players can't have bad or off games? Is being bad scum or town? Explain why this point is scum.

I didn't dodge shit. You are constantly harping on us about our Mario read which I already explained. Your attempt to discredit is scummy unless you can tell me why Mario is town. Also, I'm not dodging. I don't care. There's a huge difference.

~SW

This isn't about Burden of Proficiency. What I am saying is that you know better than to push an argument as flawed and weak as the one you are pushing. This isn't about competency; it's about intent and feigned ignorance.

Also you definitely know better than to say that my attempt to discredit is scummy unless I can tell you why Mario is town. Whether your argument is bad or not actually has nothing to do with whether or not Mario is town and certainly nothing to do with whether or not I think he is town. A flawed argument is a flawed argument, and whether pushing it is scummy or not has everything to do with intent. Personally, I think it's clear by the way you were dodging and getting defensive without addressing the questions that your intent was to push toward a lynch you knew was ripe for the taking and settled into this weak argument as your outlet.

[acryon]

Once again, I see where this is going and am calling a time out.

Although you'll notice only one person is pushing it in that direction.

Feigning ignorance is scummy AA.

[acryon]

I'll back off SW for now. Hopefully I can engage ika on this, or others can at least engage me on my arguments because my goal is not to make anyone mad.

[acryon]

This Mario push is soft. The resistance in total to it is generally too soft for it to be an all-town wagon and the specific defenders are too blatant for them to be scum.

Can't argue that when the only defenders of BBT (who were the same people fwiw) were equally blatant.

Bad.

Gotta agree with RC here. Acryon and Davsto should explain to me why saying "this is too slow" is the wrong lesson to learn from the BBT lynch and the West flip.

If you agree here, mind pointing me to the only defenders of the BBT wagon, who are also the same people against the Mario wagon? RC had trouble with this, so maybe you could help.

Can someone tell me why AnxietyAttack isn't scummy re: 1705? Is it just residual towncred from D1? That's certainly what it feels like.

because it is burden of proficiency, you silly goose.
I am actually curious: Why is mario town? Can you answer that now that a nice shiny blueflip is asking you?

Except it's not burden of proficiency. Burden of proficiency would be me assuming they should be catching scum because they are good; I'm not doing that. I am assuming they know better than to be voting for someone based on the reasoning they are, as well as know better than to make an accusation about me attempting to discredit them and then refusing to back up the statement when confronted. These are very different things, and you and Ari are both attempting to paint my statements with the wrong brush (one that already has its own flaws actually).

[acryon]

Except it's not burden of proficiency. Burden of proficiency would be me assuming they should be catching scum because they are good; I'm not doing that. I am assuming they know better than to be voting for someone based on the reasoning they are, as well as know better than to make an accusation about me attempting to discredit them and then refusing to back up the statement when confronted. These are very different things, and you and Ari are both attempting to paint my statements with the wrong brush (one that already has its own flaws actually).

Okay so it's not mafiascum-wiki definition of "burden of proficiency," but I find this vague "I'm assuming they know better" to be bad for a similar reason.
You not wanting to talk about whether or not you townread mario and instead being laser-focused on their reasoning is a decent argument for the case of you trying to discredit them.

I mean I'm all for discrediting any bad argument, as any townie should be. AA seemed to indicate that I was attempting to discredit

them

by attacking the argument, as opposed to attacking the argument.

whoops meant to pair this up with the last post

This Mario push is soft. The resistance in total to it is generally too soft for it to be an all-town wagon and the specific defenders are too blatant for them to be scum.

Can't argue that when the only defenders of BBT (who were the same people fwiw) were equally blatant.

Bad.

Gotta agree with RC here. Acryon and Davsto should explain to me why saying "this is too slow" is the wrong lesson to learn from the BBT lynch and the West flip.

If you agree here, mind pointing me to the only defenders of the BBT wagon, who are also the same people against the Mario wagon? RC had trouble with this, so maybe you could help.

I'm just looking at votecount rn, but you, Awesome-slot, pisskop, and also technically me. Skimming through those isos, what they're saying about BBT and the wagon, the theme of "this would be a more exciting lynch if it were on scum" is similar to some of the mario resistance right now.

Well my issue is with all of RC's wording.

only

defenders of BBT were equally

blatant

. I wouldn't describe "this would be a more exciting lynch if it were on scum" as blatant defense like RC is trying to say.

[acryon]

yeah idk what RC is talking about with Ari being anti-BBT tho

This is part of my issue. RC is throwing things out based on misinformation and then seemingly trying to scramble to justify it even after the premises are proven false.

[acryon]

Ac whats the point of asking us again? im catchign up but you trying to get us when we have been clearly town is stupid of you

Is this a joke? 1) you have certainly not clearly been town, and 2) even if you were D1, that's not enough for me to treat you as conftown for the rest of the game like it seems like you are expecting.

Anyway my full claim since AA already outed me

FYI here's another point against AA.

I mean, I see this as more likely town, but

neighbourizer is often scum

.

This is a stretch. Neighborizer

can

be scum but is usually town. No reason to not leave Spiff alone for a couple days.

@Elbirn: What is your scum-team? It seemed like you made mention of both AA and RC as potentially scummy.

[acryon]

acryon's AA push is really bad

ok

[acryon]

Realistically, I think many people are giving AA undue towncred. I think if people like yourself (Spiff) took an honest look at things and didn't just write AA off as town, they might see what I see.

[acryon]

Realistically, I think many people are giving AA undue towncred. I think if people like yourself (Spiff) took an honest look at things and didn't just write AA off as town, they might see what I see.

I think people who have seen our game here and played with us before know we are town. You don't have a case outside of we should know better which is shit and you think we are avoiding questions which have already been answered and I'm not wasting time answering again.

~SW

So what happens then in games when you are scum? People are just like "yep we know their town game; this is scum"?

[acryon]

So what happens then in games when you are scum? People are just like "yep we know their town game; this is scum"?

i thought you dont meta. so why are you asking a meta quesiton

Are you kidding? You are the one that tried to give me a self-meta answer, and I am calling BS on that. How is it not clear that my question was an indictment of your remark?

[acryon]

I don't think that anyone in particular is a godfather.

I do think that SOMEONE is a godfather though.

Godfather and Miller both seem incredibly likely in this setup.

[acryon]

So what happens then in games when you are scum? People are just like "yep we know their town game; this is scum"?

i thought you dont meta. so why are you asking a meta quesiton

Are you kidding? You are the one that tried to give me a self-meta answer, and I am calling BS on that. How is it not clear that my question was an indictment of your remark?

Dunno you tell me. YOur not getting support by ppl who know us so why are you still trying?

jsut color flip us tommorow instead like your making me board

I'm still trying because I like to lynch scum. I think I've found scum, so I'm trying to convince others that their townreading you based on one day and meta reasoning is flawed. Sometimes it takes repetition to get attention. I'm hoping others will honestly assess their read of you, as well as take a hard look at the way you've responded to all of this from me.

[acryon]

I'm still trying because I like to lynch scum. I think I've found scum, so I'm trying to convince others that their townreading you based on one day and meta reasoning is flawed. Sometimes it takes repetition to get attention. I'm hoping others will honestly assess their read of you, as well as take a hard look at the way you've responded to all of this from me.

And when they do and say this is town!me what then? you should realize by now this is how we are going to continue playing right?

That's the whole point. They shouldn't say this is town!you because that's an ignorant thing to say. My whole point is how exactly are they determining that you are town based on one day and comparing to your meta? Any player worth a cent can and will adjust their play as well or mimic their town-play as scum. Giving someone a pass due to meta, especially based on one day, is so mindboggling stupid. I'm not interested in anyone's thoughts on why this is town!you. I want them all to think about why giving you a pass for this reason is stupid and then to honestly and objectively look at your posts and play, especially today in the midst of my questioning.

[acryon]

I'm still trying because I like to lynch scum. I think I've found scum, so I'm trying to convince others that their townreading you based on one day and meta reasoning is flawed. Sometimes it takes repetition to get attention. I'm hoping others will honestly assess their read of you, as well as take a hard look at the way you've responded to all of this from me.

And when they do and say this is town!me what then? you should realize by now this is how we are going to continue playing right?

That's the whole point. They shouldn't say this is town!you because that's an ignorant thing to say. My whole point is how exactly are they determining that you are town based on one day and comparing to your meta? Any player worth a cent can and will adjust their play as well or mimic their town-play as scum. Giving someone a pass due to meta, especially based on one day, is so mindboggling stupid. I'm not interested in anyone's thoughts on why this is town!you. I want them all to think about why giving you a pass for this reason is stupid and then to honestly and objectively look at your posts and play, especially today in the midst of my questioning.

lol your funny, your gonna realize your attempts are in vain cus ppll have been playing with us for quite some time so they know how we work

i mean lets be real here, if i was scum why wouldnt we jsut kill spiffeh n1? like tell us that one

Totally WIFOM question, so totally WIFOM answer, but it's reasonable to believe you could out Spiffeh as the Neihborizer and then convince the town to waste at least a color-flip on him, which is exactly what you tried to do. If you kill him N1, then he just dies. If you kill him N2, then you get the town to waste a color-flip and then you can just NK him N2 anyway. Unfortunately you tried and failed to get the town to color-flip him today.

[acryon]

not really?

i mean did you see how long we waited to reveal?

why didnt we jsut do it out of the gate instead?

Again all WIFOM, but If you just do it right away it makes you look bad because someone just being a neighbor isn't enough to want to color-flip them. If you wait, you are able to use what he has (or hasn't) said in the chat to frame him in whatever way you'd like.

[acryon]

not really?

i mean did you see how long we waited to reveal?

why didnt we jsut do it out of the gate instead?

Again all WIFOM, but If you just do it right away it makes you look bad because someone just being a neighbor isn't enough to want to color-flip them. If you wait, you are able to use what he has (or hasn't) said in the chat to frame him in whatever way you'd like.

its not wifom though, its about whats the right play. right play would to be out it first thing and say we dont trust it cus it was inactive as fuck

i like how your trying to discredit it with WIFOM instead of actualy answeirng it. it really shows your towniness

lol this is literally the definition of WIFOM. There are always reasons to do the 2nd, 3rd most optimal play as scum. Why am I having to argue this with you?

Does the neighborhood allow day-talk?

[acryon]

@Mod

I'll be V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[acryon]

I'm still trying because I like to lynch scum. I think I've found scum, so I'm trying to convince others that their townreading you based on one day and meta reasoning is flawed. Sometimes it takes repetition to get attention. I'm hoping others will honestly assess their read of you, as well as take a hard look at the way you've responded to all of this from me.

And when they do and say this is town!me what then? you should realize by now this is how we are going to continue playing right?

That's the whole point. They shouldn't say this is town!you because that's an ignorant thing to say. My whole point is how exactly are they determining that you are town based on one day and comparing to your meta? Any player worth a cent can and will adjust their play as well or mimic their town-play as scum. Giving someone a pass due to meta, especially based on one day, is so mindboggling stupid. I'm not interested in anyone's thoughts on why this is town!you. I want them all to think about why giving you a pass for this reason is stupid and then to honestly and objectively look at your posts and play, especially today in the midst of my questioning.

First of all calling us ignorant is an insult. You are saying that we are getting a pass due to meta and you keep saying one day. WTF are you talking about? Please quote where we are getting a pass for one day or it's a meta argument from someone townreading us? You are just making shit up at this point and talking our your ass. You have zero reason to call us scum. I've caught scum many, many times in the past for trying to mislynch me as town on shit reasons. I haven't been mislynched in over a year because it is blatantly obvious that these pushes are bad when I'm town and it's blatantly obvious when I am town. Your push sucks. And you are doing nothing to convince anyone. If anything this looks like TvS with you being the S. Nothing you are saying we are doing is scummy. Like, you are coming off super bad right now.

~SW

just phone posting but are you even reading my posts SW? I didn't call anyone ignorant, let alone you. I said saying this game was town!you would be an ignorant thing to say. The comment would be ignorant, ignorant isnt even really an insult, I didn't even call anyone ignorant, especially you. And what? No one has given me much of a reason that they are townreading you outside of meta; that's my point. Meta isn't entirely useless, but it's close, especially for townreading people. If you're going to read someone for meta, it better be for a scum read and not a town read. Give people credit for scumhunting.

[acryon]

Oh hey I forgot to mention (AKA I just checked my role and didn't realize this)

Being in my neighborhood obscures someone's color until they are released

How does this make people feel

So does this essentially produce a null when color-flipped as well?

Elbirn's drunk posting is pretty cool.

Also, I say go ahead and hammer whoever wants to and end the day.

There's not going to be time for anything else the way this game is going.

~SW

Why are you okay with just hammering without a claim? We now have multiple people (myself included now) that will hammer before deadline if he doesn't claim by then.

I'll hammer 8 hours from now if no claim comes.

[acryon]

Someone please hammer

There's like no time

I

literally

said I would hammer in 8 hours.

[acryon]

Why are you okay with just hammering without a claim? We now have multiple people (myself included now) that will hammer before deadline if he doesn't claim by then.

I'll hammer 8 hours from now if no claim comes.

I'm tired of your shit misrep on us. I said the day was about to end and we needed a lynch. At the rate we were going, it'd be a NL. We need a flip and I would of been o.k. lynching his ass earlier than this. If he was a PR, he could of fucking played better to avoid a lynch.

~SW

I'm not pinning his lynch on you, but when we have had several people say they would hammer before DL and we still have half a day until then, why rush the hammer?

[acryon]

The point I am trying to make in general, and this doesn't apply to only you AA, is that we can't let this "got em" mentality get in the way of playing smart. Regardless of how sure you are, you're never 100%, so we need to play with that in mind.

[acryon]

VOTE: acryon

ika and I want this flipped.

~SW

Waste of a color-flip.

so Elbirn is right DGB is confirmed scum by the mechanics

we presume 4 scums in starting

n1: there are 3 left
if we take that they can turn blue into account
d2: has 2 red, 1 blue
so com night 2 he now purple
n2: 2 red, 1 purple
so if it acted again we should have on d3
n3: 1 red, 1 purple, 1 blue
but due to spiffs role its removed so we are missing a red

So other than correcting the spelling of Elbirn's name (lol-call me a spelling nazi)-this is what ika sent to me and what we talked about on the phone earlier.

So 17 players=most likely a 4 person scumteam. There are currenlty 13 players alive.

Elbirn's role is similar to a sensor role where he can detect colors. Scum likely have a role that can color change one of them due to Elbirn's results.

So 11 blue and 1 purple and 1 missing are the current results.

N1-3 red, 1 color changed to blue, and TSO changed to purple and we would of been unaccounted for due to being Ascetic due to Spiffeh's role

D2-2 red, 1 purple would be dead due to TSO being killed, and we would still be missing

N2-2 red, 1 purple (West), 1 missing (DGB), 1 read turns blue

D3-1 red, 1 purple (West), 1 missing (DGB)-because Elbrin is not detecting a red player rn, that means that DGB is scum because she is missing due to Spiffeh and is therefore confirmed scum

~SW

The only problem is this doesn't take into account a Godfather, which they almost definitely have.

[acryon]

If you think you are a waste of a color flip acryon, then it's best if you tell us who you think would be a good color flip. To me it's either you, hiplop, lillith, or Papa Zito.

And yeah I just realized I messed up what ika was saying and I'm gonna check with him again when he wakes up. The purple isn't the person we flipped necessarily although it could be. It is the person the scum tried to change from red to blue and got purple.

This tells me they have a color change ability which would mean a GF isn't necessarily likely at all. So the only chance we have of accurately color flipping scum, is if we catch whoever is purple and flip them today.

~SW

Ugh. It just really feels bad that our best course of color-flipping action is trying to hit on a 1/13, but not much we can do about it I guess.

If we are looking to hit the purple, then we should look at who may have been in danger of being color-flipped D2 at the end of D1. From my looking, it seemed like Awesome was getting the most discussion near the end of D1 making them a good candidate for a D2 color-flip. To me, this makes Papa Zito the best candidate for the color-flip today.

VOTE: Papa Zito

[acryon]

I would rather flip Elbirn still.

I can't help but think that if he were scum, they would have had a way to make sure he would flip blue if their plan was for him to make this claim.

I can't think of good scum-motivation for Elbirn-scum to claim what he did there. And if he was going to, I feel like he would have said something else that would have helped scum more or in some way incriminated another townie.

[acryon]

The point is, flipping him doesn't actually tell us anything about his claim, because non-Pallete-scum-Elbrin could still flip blue for other reasons. So we have to choose to believe it or not outside of his color.

[acryon]

There's a wifom wormhole there if you wanna start guessing at possible motivations but vetting the guy that's directing our actions as best we can doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

VOTE: Elbirn

Except it doesn't vet him for the reasons I mentioned. If scum can paint, why wouldn't they paint the guy that is about to fake-claim?

[acryon]

By that logic, what's the point of colorflipping anyone?

Because it's far more likely that a fake-claiming scum would have been painted than another random player?

[acryon]

And you think that Zito - unrelated to this case at hand which will show us fucktons of stuff - is a better flip? Sell it to me.

PEdit - Spiffeh, only person who can "prove" that you asceticise is DGB and forgive me if I don't want to trust her. However, if Elbirn is missing one result, it's basically proof that someone was asceticised or is ascetic because, let's face it, there aren't many other reasons.

Zito is the best color-flip because if scum can paint N1, it would make sense for them to paint the scum most likely to be color-flipped if one of them were getting heat. Awesome seemed most likely to be color-flipped at the end of D1.

[acryon]

By that logic, what's the point of colorflipping anyone?

And to further answer your question, if scum can paint, then yeah it takes almost all the value out of color-flipping. Which means it makes sense to go after this possible purple player, which based on my theory you are most likely.

[acryon]

Two options:

We try to find the probscum purple guy by, for all intents and purposes, pulling a name out of a hat. There's trying to hit scum, which takes skill, and then there's trying to hit a single specific scum, which takes luck.
We make Elbirn likely town by flipping him, and then if DGB flips scum Elbirn is basically conftown by that point.


PEdit Spiffeh - It would only be reliable had DGB not been scum, but she probably is so is it really worth it? I personally do not get any confirmation - which is why I said that you didn't really have to trust me because I'm not the one truthing or lying.

While my role is hardly hidden, I don't feel like going the full mile and fullclaiming for the sake of an unreliable result.

This doesn't work though. Flipping Elbirn blue does

not

prove anything. If he is town, then he flips blue. If he is scum, then he probably flips blue.

Regarding the probscum purple, we do have a better chance than pulling a name out of a hat, and that's by the method I mentioned.

[acryon]

Why is West purple though? He flipped distinctly not-purple. Same with TSO.
Are you assuming colour flipping changes their colour?

This had me looking at AA kinda funny when I read their post, yeah

Overall everyone is making an awful lot of unfounded assumptions about what purple means

I mean I don't think it's far-fetched to believe that purple would mean scum that painted their buddy blue, but no clue why they connected West to that.

[acryon]

I feel like there's something wrong about your logic.
If Elbirn were scum and your scum-can-paint-blue-but-they-turn-purple theory was true, why the everloving fuck would he out the existence of a purple player since that essentially scumfirms them?
Basically, if Elbirn is scum - as you seem to think - then there is no way there is any purple player, and thus your attempts to try and flip said purple player because Elbirn may be scum is mislead.

Because I don't believe his claim if he is scum. If he is scum, chances are they don't actually turn purple.

And I don't think Elbirn is scum at all. I already said I don't see the scum-motivation to do what he did.

[acryon]

Let's flip west.

I don't understand why he didn't die last night, and I wanna see if his blue paint mixed with red

Yes I know what I *just* said about making assumptions about what purple means

VOTE: west9

While I personally think the Papa Zito color-flip makes more sense, I can see why people could wrap their minds around a West-flip more, so I'm not unopposed to it. I think it is easily the 2nd best option, although I am willing to admit it may be better than my idea, especially since I didn't factor in Blue-West not dying last night.

[acryon]

Let's flip west.

I don't understand why he didn't die last night, and I wanna see if his blue paint mixed with red

Yes I know what I *just* said about making assumptions about what purple means

VOTE: west9

While I personally think the Papa Zito color-flip makes more sense, I can see why people could wrap their minds around a West-flip more, so I'm not unopposed to it. I think it is easily the 2nd best option, although I am willing to admit it may be better than my idea, especially since I didn't factor in Blue-West not dying last night.

Do you guys want to re-flip him or...!?!?!?!?!?

Unfortunately yes. Him not dying last night combined with this new purple revelation makes him probably the best candidate.

[acryon]

Some of you seriously want to re-flip a player? I mean, there's the argument that making flips is informationless, but there's no need to make it literally devoid of information by flipping someone we literally flipped a day ago.

Except we think it may not be devoid of information based on the purple revelation. And at this point, if we are to believe Elbirn (which I do), then a flip on anyone other than the purple one is literally devoid of information.

Unsure of the vote count, but we have scum pegged and this colour flip phase gets dumber and more setup--spec-filled and unhelpful every day.

VOTE: Flip Elbirn

Flipping Elbrin is so bad. Scum-Elbirn will have been painted, and Town-Elbirn will be blue. I can't imagine there is any chance Scum-Elbirn fakeclaims here with his color being red.

[acryon]

PSA: If we believe Elbirn, then a flip on literally anyone other than the purple player means NOTHING. Therefore, if you believe Elbirn, then you need to try and hit purple.

[acryon]

PSA: If we believe Elbirn, then a flip on literally anyone other than the purple player means NOTHING. Therefore, if you believe Elbirn, then you need to try and hit purple.

PSA: The only reason that people believe that scum can paint people is because of Elbirn's "result"

So, if Elbirn is scum, there's still a decent chance that scum can't actually paint anyone and he's red.

I find it very unlikely that scum can't paint anyone.

[acryon]

Some of you seriously want to re-flip a player? I mean, there's the argument that making flips is informationless, but there's no need to make it literally devoid of information by flipping someone we literally flipped a day ago.

Except we think it may not be devoid of information based on the purple revelation. And at this point, if we are to believe Elbirn (which I do), then a flip on anyone other than the purple one is literally devoid of information.

Unsure of the vote count, but we have scum pegged and this colour flip phase gets dumber and more setup--spec-filled and unhelpful every day.

VOTE: Flip Elbirn

Flipping Elbrin is so bad. Scum-Elbirn will have been painted, and Town-Elbirn will be blue. I can't imagine there is any chance Scum-Elbirn fakeclaims here with his color being red.

So, let me get this straight.
We think West painted himself, so he will be purple despite being flipped blue already.
We think Elbrin, if scum, painted himself, yet won't be purple because...???

Like, where is the logic?
That West's pain will wear off and turn purple before it goes red again?
Because that is A) not how motherfucking paint works! and B) so much setup spec and wine that I'm already drunk.

Will read the dumb ninjas.

Elbirn would be purple. But the whole idea is that they don't turn purple until the next day, hence West being blue. Read the effing thread please.

[acryon]

PSA: If we believe Elbirn, then a flip on literally anyone other than the purple player means NOTHING. Therefore, if you believe Elbirn, then you need to try and hit purple.

PSA: The only reason that people believe that scum can paint people is because of Elbirn's "result"

So, if Elbirn is scum, there's still a decent chance that scum can't actually paint anyone and he's red.

I find it very unlikely that scum can't paint anyone.

What reason do you have to think this? If you have thought this from the start, as this suggests, why did you keep it to yourself rather than bringing it up at any other point than this one that is rather convenient?

Because it didn't have any context before. I thought everybody figured it was a possibility that people's colors could be changed. This format would be kind of a missed opportunity without it. I didn't have a reason to bring it up because people weren't disputing it before.

[acryon]

Ninja'd.
Wait, I literally just quoted you saying Elbrin wouldn't be purple. Now you say he would be.
And if West's colour already changed, then why would it change back??

I am reading the thread, you're making no goddamn sense!

Because this is what we are hypothesizing. We believe that purple is the next-day result of scum being painted blue. Do we know this for sure? No, but it seems plausible.

[acryon]

But if a town player were mixed with red paint, they'd claim it to us. Like "uh guys what happened I'm not blue da bo dee da bo daa anymore"

Thought about this, confused

@mod - if a player were to have their colour changed due to outside influence, would they be informed?

Good question.

[acryon]

So what if we flip spiffeh, and if he's purple we lynch him instead?

Cuz the only way dgb isn't scum is if Spiffeh is, and even that's up in the air

Idk I'm just bullshitting, the game died cuz I claimed a guilty and now we're all waiting for shit to happen

This is not true. Godfather could exist simultaneously with this painter role, especially if the painter role only lasts for essentially one day.

[acryon]

Ugh an Elbirn flip is SO BAD guys. In what world does scum-Elbirn 1) claim what he did, and 2) claim what he did while not being protected from a color-flip by being painted blue?

[acryon]

I'm not sure which is optimal, but it seems like the flip today has to be Zito or West.

[acryon]

Yeah, it looks like Elbrin would benefit also. Good point, it's possible but kind of WIFOMy.

VOTE: Elbirn

~SW

Kind of WIFOMy? It is extremely WIFOMy. Bad color-flip is bad.

[acryon]

This will be the worst waste of a color-flip this game. Don't do it guys. Our chance of a non-blue flip is small either way, but it's 0 with Elbirn.

[acryon]

No this is stupid. Is anybody even thinking about it? Does anyone really think there is any chance that scum-Elbirn makes the claim he did without being protected in the case of a color-flip?

[acryon]

I'm good on West or Zito.

[acryon]

@Mod:

V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[acryon]

I don't like lynching Elbirn. He is a cool cat. Are all you guys lynching him on is based on NK?

People are wanting to flip him 1) to verify his claim and 2) based on the NK. We should not color-flip him since Elbirn-scum would have made sure he would color-flip blue before coming out with a fake-claim, so we are going to get blue from him no matter what.

[acryon]

We color-flip papa zito.

VOTE: Papa Zito

[acryon]

How sure are we that scum can't paint town? AI'm not asking this rhetorically by the way.

[acryon]

That would be really dumb

Well it was pointed out this would essentially be a tailor role, right?

[acryon]

Given 2 purples and everyone else blue, is our hypothesis that the two purples are scum? How sure are we on that?

[acryon]

it would be basdard modding if it was not informed......

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... edirect=no seems to imply a similar role, so how would it be bastard?

[acryon]

I am inclined to agree that the scum probably can't paint town as well. 1) I imagine we would have had a Red now based on Elbirn's check, and 2) it would essentially nullify an entire portion of the game (the color-flip).

[acryon]

I don't think that would fall under "lying to the players"...it's not like it's an alignment change, that would be bastard and this isn't a bastard game.

Theory, there's probably not a blue godfather AND a scum role that paints people. I think we're looking for one more scum, the one scum painted them self and is now painting townies to make a sort of smoke screen.

But then we have only 3 scum in a 17 player game...

[acryon]

Definition of bastard by large theme queue stuffs

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game?

Pretty sure people being able to have their colour changed without being told as such doesn't fit into this.

The fact that the mod didn't immediately go "yeah you'd be told" also makes me think that you may not be told.

Ech.

Eh, but the way he has answered questions all game has always made it open to interpretation. I doubt he would ever be forthcoming unless absolutely necessary.

[acryon]

Definition of bastard by large theme queue stuffs

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes,

moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not)

, secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game?

Pretty sure people being able to have their colour changed without being told as such doesn't fit into this.

The fact that the mod didn't immediately go "yeah you'd be told" also makes me think that you may not be told.

Ech.

changing a person role would fall under the bolded. its subjective overall but i would classify it as a bastard elemt to not inform the town of such thing

Well no. Functionally what is being proposed is very close to a tailor. They aren't changing their alignment or their role. They are just changing what they investigate as.

[acryon]

I've been debating this, but it seems like a good a time as any since I finally got a result. I still like Papa Zito for a color-flip outside of this, but I think we have to color-flip and lynch inside of the 3 I’ll highlight below.

I am Town Selective Sensor. Each night, I select 3 players and the mod tells me how many of them have wet paint and how many have dry paint.

N1 I selected Spiffeh, Anxiety Attack, and lillith. I was informed 2 of the players had dry paint (3rd blocked by asceticism).

N2, I selected Spiffeh, DGB, and RC. I was informed 2 of the players had dry paint (3rd blocked by asceticism).

N3, I selected West, Firebringer, and Aristophanes. I was informed 2 of the players had dry paint and

one had wet paint

. One of West, Firebringer, and Ari were painted sometime recently to have the characteristic of “wet paint”.

I was never given any info on what dry/wet paint actually means (this is intended as I asked the mod) nor was I ever told who specifically was wet or dry.

Especially given the possibility that scum can paint town, any info my role can give should probably just come out before I die.

[acryon]

Excellent!

I guess I apologize for my bullheadedness in the flip stage yesterday. I just really wanted to lynch DGB scum and thought the whole ordeal was stupid.

UNVOTE:

Who would you prefer of these three, Acryon?

Unsure at this point. Hoping to see what the crowd thinks. What do you think?

[acryon]

Part of me wants to go West, but I also fear that he would be dry by now, which means one of Ari or Firebringer as AA stated.

[acryon]

It's also worth noting that Fire has done absolutely nothing since they replaced.

[acryon]

Well we flipped west D2. Maybe the reason scum didn't kill him was to paint him "red" except it turned out purple instead

Yeah but that theory would require scum to think we would be willing to color-flip West again, and I think there were enough people against this to assume this wouldn't be likely.

[acryon]

What do you mean he would be dry by now?

Well my feeling is that there is probably some timing in the wet/dry situation. If a player is painted, it wouldn't stay wet forever. So if scum, say, painted West N1, he would be dry by now.

[acryon]

VOTE: Firebringer

[acryon]

see my gut says that "wet paint" means they've been painted at any point during the course of the game

Because "see if they've been painted that particular night" is extremely specific and, 9 times out of 10, will be completely useless.

This is a good point.

[acryon]

You think the wet/dry paint thing is a scum role? There's no way.

lillith was referring to the "painter" role as being a scum role. My role did not specify what it mean. I followed up with the mod and asked if I was supposed to know based on the info I received what dry/wet even meant and they said no.

[acryon]

Oh. That I agree with sure.

Do you think it's worthwhile to rescan this group of 3 again to see if they turn dry?

Well we will have another color-flip and lynch before then, so I don't think I will have to do that.

[acryon]

shouldnt we be flipping west "coastin on a blue flip" 9

VOTE: west9

Actually I don't hate this idea. Since I think we should color-flip one and lynch another, maybe we color-flip West and lynch Firebringer?

[acryon]

Can we color flip firebringer and if he's purple then we lynch him? (If he's blue lynch aristo)

If you can get others on board here, I'm with you. Firebringer seems most likely scum to me, which is why I suggested if we were going to blind-lynch any of them, it would be him.

[acryon]

Acryon can you ask mod about that.

Ask him if someone was "painted" could they later show up having dry paint?

Also we flip one Lynch other

I can ask, although I doubt I'll get an answer considering I asked if I was supposed to know what wet/dry even meant and was given a no, so I don't think I'd be given info on a theoretical painter.

I'll ask though.

[acryon]

Color flipped.

I am the Bluest of all blues.
Cheetory can confirm that when you flip me.

Ok then can you play to your wincon and actually try to find scum?

[acryon]

Ok then can you play to your wincon and actually try to find scum?

Perhaps.

How about now?

Based on the information that has come out, what is town's best course of action? Who is scum?

[acryon]

How about now?

Based on the information that has come out, what is town's best course of action? Who is scum?

What is different now?

I guess lynch West?
I don't know.

Well you didn't really have any opinions yesterday either, so let's just pretend you read the game from scratch.

[acryon]

Yep. Ari is right here Elbirn.

Also I asked the mod about someone's paint becoming dry after being made wet and he just replied that it was a good question, so nothing there.

[acryon]

Yeah I mean we always knew we were going for a 2/3 today. Now we lynch Ari or West. Probably Ari since we at least have seen West flip blue.

[acryon]

Do we lose something if I flip blue?
Or does that not like confirm me?

I really should understand if this flip color is anti town or something

How are you so oblivious to what's going on in this game?

[acryon]

How are you so oblivious to what's going on in this game?

By not reading or caring that much.

No offense, but then why are you even playing?

[acryon]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you are town then you are just making the game harder for the rest of your town-team.

[acryon]

@Elbirn: Ok, but your best reason for us to not choose that slot was because of D1 play and meta?

[acryon]

It's also worth noting that although we are moving forward with the theory that purple=scum, it's important we remember that this does not confirm Fire as town. Much like no previous color-flips have.

[acryon]

FWIW, I am moving forward with the assumption that you are town for now, but I want to ensure town doesn't forget that this process doesn't confirm anyone since we don't actually know how the painting works.

[acryon]

FWIW, I am moving forward with the assumption that you are town for now, but I want to ensure town doesn't forget that this process doesn't confirm anyone since we don't actually know how the painting works.

I could tell you think I am town a few posts ago you semi came out and hinted at that you knew I was going to flip Blue.

That post was pinging me hard, then you followed up wit the eventual post just a minute ago.

You can't say that any of that doesn't scream scum.

lol what when did I hint that I knew you would flip blue?

[acryon]

Yeah I mean we always knew we were going for a 2/3 today. Now we lynch Ari or West. Probably Ari since we at least have seen West flip blue.

This

I stated early on that we had a 2/3 chance to hit scum. Hitting you seemed like a good way to increase that chance, but statistically speaking we were always a 2/3.

[acryon]

Here is where we look at the context of the game a little more and determine which of West/Ari makes most sense given the flips we already have.

[acryon]

I was looking through both West and Ari's posts, and both pushed on DGB, which doesn't tell me much of anything. It seemed clear that at the very least his play was rubbing people the wrong way and he was going down. If one of them were to be the one jumping on after realizing this, it's West since Ari was pushing very early on and continued to.

Honestly this one is very hard to sort out. All of the color makes for a good smokescreen.

[acryon]

See, West makes me not want to lynch him. But I know it is the only way.
I hate that it has come to this, buddy!

...........

this is gloaty as shit

It does feel that way.

[acryon]

Can you please explain the hiplop thing.

someone

anyone

im a real cool guy

What do you think about today hiplop? You've done zip.

[acryon]

@mod-replace out

We will be leaving the site.

Thanks

Aw no Sorry to see you guys go.

[acryon]

Okay, so, we're literally narrowing down the lynch targets to two people because of a result (that we don't fully understand the meaning of) (from someone we don't 100% trust, no offence acry) (that could also point towards other things)?

Anyone else see the flaw here? This feels more like scum taking advantage of a good situation.

No I get the issue, but I'm not sure anyone has any better plan at this point. If other people had very strong feelings about someone being scum, then we could go there, but for now, this seems worth pursuing, especially if the game is slowing down.

[acryon]

Yeah so none of that was mafia aka "this dude be scums" reasons. Which is what I asked for.

Anyway if this is all we're doing VOTE: Ari then.

You have a voice too and are capable of reading and coming up with your own ideas. Like has been stated, we are going down this path since it seems better than the currently zero present alternatives.

[acryon]

@Mod

V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[acryon]

Yes, for the sake of figuring out this colour thing.
Do I think you'll flip scum though?
I'm not sold.

I would be fine putting Ari to L-1 here. West being opposed is kind of weird, and have no idea what to make of it, but some of Ari's handling of this and comments like the above feel really bad.

[acryon]

Jk

UNVOTE:
VOTE: West

Why the switch?

[acryon]

So we have West at L-2, and Ari at L-3. Does anyone have anything major to say? Otherwise we should just move in on one because this day isn't moving.

[acryon]

*munches popcorn*

Yaknow

If we flip west, no matter what his alignment is, if he's painted a different colour that pretty much clears the other two

And I'd say west would be far more likely to be painted than the other two

Idk that's all my brain has for you guys today

Yeah the issue I am having is with West's hard-push to get himself lynched. Have no idea what to make of it.

[acryon]

Who should I vote for

I think we have to vote West for two reasons. 1) It is most likely to give us the most information regarding the paint function. 2) He asked for it.

Can anyone give me a reason I shouldnt put him to L-1?

[acryon]

VOTE: acryon

Because I did

Because you did what?

[acryon]

oh lol

[acryon]

Any reason not to hammer?

[acryon]

I'll wait a bit for others to chime in

[acryon]

I'm about to go on V/LA so I'm going to hammer to make sure it happens.

VOTE: West9

[acryon]

I wonder how this game would've been different if Spiff had neighborized someone every day? Seems he picked up a ton of extra suspicion throughout the game because of this.

Either way, GG guys!

[acryon]

N2: Elbirn does a colour census. Gets 11 blue and 1 purple.
acryon sensors DrippingGoofball, RadiantCowbells and Spiffeh and gets two dry results back.
Lilith tracks RadiantCowbells.
Davsto flourescences DrippingGoofball
DrippingGoofball kills pisskop
DrippingGoofball paints Davsto purple

Acryon you basically gamethrew here by not outing this result.

Ah, the classic RC played perfect and everyone else sucked post-game analysis. Always a pleasure.

Anyhow 1) mafia can paint town or scum, 2) we actually had a townie who was always wet, 3) we lynched the only scum in that group the day I got that result anyway, and 4) easy to say when literally none of us have ever played the role I played before.

Also am I missing something or did AA literally never say they were a "freshly coated" VT? Seems that could have been very helpful after I claimed and gave my results... Could have given us a better understanding of things.

[acryon]

Ah, the classic RC played perfect and everyone else sucked post-game analysis. Always a pleasure.

It's a MafiaScum tradition!

You killed it by the way davsto!

[acryon]

I mean idk

Why would scum forget their action four times in a row

I mean it's extremely stupid yeah but I don't really see the scum motivation in that

Oh I agree, and I never thought it was scummy, but people jump onto weird things (and did this game too).