Open 634: Sharing is Caring (Game Over)

Alexcellent · Post Post #9 (isolation #0) » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:08 pm

Hyper aggressive? No fucks? That sounds like obvscum to me!

VOTE: BlacleWorks

Alexcellent · Post Post #51 (isolation #1) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:57 pm

In post 25, Maxous wrote:
In post 9, Alexcellent wrote:Hyper aggressive? No fucks? That sounds like obvscum to me!

VOTE: BlacleWorks

I didn't like this
either

vote: Alexcellent

Who else didn't like it?

Alexcellent · Post Post #115 (isolation #2) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:45 am

In post 69, Masquerade wrote:And also
UNVOTE:

Why the unvote here?

Alexcellent · Post Post #116 (isolation #3) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:56 am

In post 54, texcat wrote:My vote was strictly an RVS vote for the hat. I still hate the hat, but
UNVOTE: .

Leave my hat alone :'(
But for reals, I'm not sure why you unvoted me here...

In post 56, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 54, texcat wrote:My vote was strictly an RVS vote for the hat. I still hate the hat, but
UNVOTE: .

You saw three votes on someone and you decided, "Hey, let's just RVS this guy. That's not scummy at all?"

In post 57, texcat wrote:Nope. Why do you think it's scummy?

Because it doesn't seem like you thought putting me at L-3 was a bad thing for town.

In post 73, texcat wrote:Should we discuss how our town PRs are going to handle their X shots?

In post 74, Maxous wrote:
In post 73, texcat wrote:Should we discuss how our town PRs are going to handle their X shots?

ok.
how do you think we should handle them?

I don't like these questions so early in the day.

Alexcellent · Post Post #117 (isolation #4) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:05 am

In post 75, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 57, texcat wrote:Nope. Why do you think it's scummy?

One of the more recent games I've been in, someone was lynched before I even got to the computer. This was day one, and I was actually scum. You brought someone to L-3, to a point where it's easy to have someone lynched.

If you're not scum, you're clearly not playing with the town's best interests in mind.

I don't personally agree with this line of thinking. I don't think it's anti-town usually, unless it suddenly gets to L-1 because derphammers are a thing. But L-3 isn't really a dangerous thing in RVS, they can get reactions and create content. Odds are slim that three more votes will suddenly pile on to someone in RVS.

Alexcellent · Post Post #118 (isolation #5) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:12 am

In post 95, BlacleWorks wrote:We don't have much to go on yet so I would say both actions are pretty null. Kuroi is the only one who is asserting this is some type of scum tell right? Since no one else is coming up with lame reason to support him I'm leaning that he is null - scum more than null town. Its D-1 and IME scum is always the most opportunistic here.

Right now I have a very extremely weak null scum read on Maixmous, Kuroi, and Percival, and Kain Tepes. Each one of these slorts have attempted to push weak cases that no one else is being opportunist about at all.

Masquerade after the game could you give me some insight into your town read of me. When I'm actually scum I need to be able to be town read! And this is the first game that I have not become scum king number 1 within my first 3 posts lol. Or better yet now would be better gotta make sure the read is genuine and all.

P-Edit:
Thats it, Wgeurts I never get town reads this fast, FOS on you for being too good to be true!

Ughhhh, I really don't like this and I'm not sure why.

In post 100, BlacleWorks wrote:Yeah we can't wait around for scum to offer themselves on a platter. But when have any of you ever caught scum before they slipped up? I am a firm believer in that your win con ultimately influences your decisions.

That being said I have a theory about all mafia games with the standard 9 player newbie setup. At some point in time before the game ends it goes to either mylo or lylo. It is here that scum has to make its move. Its here that they are forced to deliver themselves up on a platter. I think the best course of action for a VT is to develop your reads as the days progress and try to eliminate players that are anything less than town starting with who is more than likely to be scum. Outside of PR's that is pretty much all you can hope to do as town.

Scum is going to opportunistic at some point because they can and they must in order to win. Spotting it is of course how I intend to catch scum.

Why are you in such a rush to build wagons and force content? Shouldn't you be trying to get to know everyone better right now while we are still very early in the day?

VOTE: Maxous

And I don't like this reasoning for a vote. Wagons and content aren't scummy things. I'd say not forcing content is scummier.

Alexcellent · Post Post #120 (isolation #6) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:23 am

In post 111, wgeurts wrote:

Alexcellent

My golly. Another content-less ISO. Two posts, one being an RVS and the other a question. Honestly I could place a null-scum read here as his only other non RVS post was him only caring about the people who didn't like him. Like he literally didn't do anything else.

VOTE: Alexcellent
As I literally have nothing better than this vote right now. Alex, care to provide your thoughts on the game right now as well as explain why you're only focused those that didn't like your only other post?

Max's phrasing in his vote against me was weird and is also the only vote I questioned. The way he worded it came across to me as though he was sheeping another serious vote, but I didn't see any other serious votes at that point. I was fine with his answer.

My thoughts on the game: slight scum reads on Blacle and Texcat. With Tex I'm fine that she put me at L-3, but she unvoted when people started questioning my wagon, which is what strikes me as off. The question about power roles bugs me too.
Leaning town on Kuroi, pretty much null on everyone else.

Alexcellent · Post Post #121 (isolation #7) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:31 am

In post 119, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 117, Alexcellent wrote:
In post 75, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 57, texcat wrote:Nope. Why do you think it's scummy?

One of the more recent games I've been in, someone was lynched before I even got to the computer. This was day one, and I was actually scum. You brought someone to L-3, to a point where it's easy to have someone lynched.

If you're not scum, you're clearly not playing with the town's best interests in mind.

I don't personally agree with this line of thinking. I don't think it's anti-town usually, unless it suddenly gets to L-1 because derphammers are a thing. But L-3 isn't really a dangerous thing in RVS, they can get reactions and create content. Odds are slim that three more votes will suddenly pile on to someone in RVS.

Slim isn't zero. Maybe if I haven't experienced this myself, I may agree with you but because I have, I'm not going to agree with you. This is, in the grand scheme of things, minor but people are trying to change my mind that bringing someone to L-3 in RVS isn't an anti-town thing to do.

Texcat would have been much better off accepting it, and moving on, waiting for someone to do something scummier.

I just think in a 13p game, at L-3, it would require two more people to pile on with random votes, and then a third to hammer, it's really unlikely to happen. You're right in that it's not zero, but I think wagoning is how we create content and get out of RVS. That's more or less helped us move out of RVS in this game as serious votes are starting to come out. But I guess we all have different approaches to the game.

What do you think of Maxous and his vote on Texcat?

Alexcellent · Post Post #183 (isolation #8) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:06 am

Prod dodge, sorry, I'll try and get up to date in the morning

Alexcellent · Post Post #217 (isolation #9) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:03 pm

In post 115, Alexcellent wrote:Why the unvote here?

I always unvote an RVS-vote once RVS seems to be over.

In post 116, Alexcellent wrote:I don't like these questions so early in the day.

Why not?

Fair enough

And I find PR talk early in the day to be fairly redundant for town, but scum could get info from it

Alexcellent · Post Post #218 (isolation #10) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:04 pm

Pers and Tex, why are you voting each other?

Alexcellent · Post Post #299 (isolation #11) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:58 am

Just getting caught up now, sorry for my lack of input lately, been a busy few days!

Alexcellent · Post Post #300 (isolation #12) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:26 am

UNVOTE: Blacle

I'm not a vig. I think it's just Masquerade that we're waiting on now to see if there's a CC?

In post 252, BlacleWorks wrote:I just want to point out that all of us are confirmed town to scum. They actually don't want to have their kills directed by town. They would much rather prefer to kill who will best advance their scum!plot. In a way losing a confirmed town early on at least makes scum behave in a more predictable manner at night one time. They are aware of this as well and it will naturally raise their scum paranoia and could lead to a slip. So in the end not JKing me is always the best option for town to take at this point.

More votes on Wgeurts please.

I really disagree here. Provided there's no CC, you have both a PR and are confirmed town, which makes you a major threat to scum. Going into D2 with a confirmed townie still alive is pretty good for town/bad for scum.

Alexcellent · Post Post #301 (isolation #13) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:27 am

In post 254, Aneninen wrote:JailKeeper idea.
In my opinion, whoever the JK is (do not CLAIM!),
should toss a coin, 50% to protect Blade, 50% to do nothing.

At least, this will wifomize the kill for the scums, there will be no "safekill" for them.
Moreover, the cop definitely need to investigate someone.

I actually really like this idea.

Alexcellent · Post Post #302 (isolation #14) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:31 am

@Persivul, why are you voting Texcat?

Alexcellent · Post Post #304 (isolation #15) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:48 am

In post 273, texcat wrote:VOTE: Maxous
First the strange vote on Alex.

In post 25, Maxous wrote:
In post 9, Alexcellent wrote:Hyper aggressive? No fucks? That sounds like obvscum to me!

VOTE: BlacleWorks

I didn't like this either

vote: Alexcellent
In post 42, Maxous wrote:
I suppose it's gut.
I didn't like the feel of the post.

Then the vote for me.

In post 99, Maxous wrote:
In post 94, wgeurts wrote:Kuroi if you're town please reread texcats post and take a really good look. That was not a scum over the top defense. Also defending ones self is once again also not a scum tell. It's going "over the top" in your defense displaying over-confidence and/or paranoia that is scummy.

I don't agree at all - Texcat

a) had a passive-aggressive dig at Kuroi

b) what does Alexcelent being indifferent to the wagon have to do with anything?

unvote,
VOTE: Texcat

In post 133, Maxous wrote:
In post 106, texcat wrote: The wagon that I pushed with my RVS vote all the way to L-3 (! does this just sound ridiculous?) was on Alex. You seem to be voting me for encouraging Kuroi to get out of his tunnel, but Kuroi thinks I'm scummy for pushing Alex to L-3 with my RVS. It seems like Alex might have something to do with it.

uhh no.
I voted you for the bolded:

In post 88, texcat wrote:
In post 84, KuroiXHF wrote:2) He didn't see a problem with it. <- I think he said this is why.

Yep. And I still don't see a problem with it.
I do find it strange that you are so focused on it
, especially since Alexcellent seemed totally indifferent to the wagon.

what's strange about him scum-hunting?
the rest of his posts he was answering questions about his read that people were asking.

Kuroi does seem to be out of his tunnel now. Yay. I thought he was focused on the L-3 vote for way too long. Maxous just thought it was scum hunting. I can't really disagree, and never voted Kuroi, but did think it was tunnel he should get out of.

Lack of other content leads to the vote.

Other people getting scrutiny:
KT -- Serious lack of content. You should ISO this and look.
Alex -- sure would like to see more here
Shotty -- didn't like his suspicion about Kuroi coaching Wg. But did like his suggestion about the CC.
Persivul -- I didn't really like his intent to hammer. Is he scum that knew Blade would flip town? I agree with his argument that JK should probably leave Blade alone, but don't like his suggestion that a vig should CC. As Shotty pointed out, if JK leaves Blade alone, then vig can take him out.

In post 233, Persivul wrote:I thought that was implied, but FTR, intent to hammer.

Personally I think the guy is town trying to play too tricksy, but at this point he's going to be a distraction for as long as he's here, and his flip will help analysis. Absent a claim he needs to go.

I'm still entirely sure why you're voting Maxous based on the above. Is it that you don't agree with his logic in voting you? I might be missing something
Why don't you like Persivul claiming intent on Blacle? It seems weird to me since you were the one that put him at L-1

Alexcellent · Post Post #305 (isolation #16) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:48 am

In post 303, Persivul wrote:Bad vibes and I like the wagon so far.

Fair enough

Alexcellent · Post Post #306 (isolation #17) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:07 am

A couple reads: leaning town on Aeninen, Clumsy, Kuroi and Pers.

VOTE: Texcat

I still am not a fan of how she jumped off of my RVS wagon when people started questioning it, don't heaps like the really early PR question and I don't like 273. Puts Blacle at L-1, but doesn't like when someone claims intent, it just seems off.

Alexcellent · Post Post #323 (isolation #18) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:33 pm

In post 309, Masquerade wrote:VOTE: Texcat

I'd need to make a quotewall to explain myself and I'd rather not do that. Instead, if you don't agree point me to a post you think is town and I'll explain why it's scum.

If there's anything anyone wants me to comment on, let me know. I think it's a good idea to stop talking about the PR's. My opinion is they should do what they see fit, and there's no reason to inform scum about anything.

Were you aware that this vote put her at L-1?

In post 322, Aneninen wrote:Quickpost.
F-ck this shyt!
Haven't I told you that Texcat is a Day1 mislynch magnet?!
As far as I can remember, whenever she was lynched on Day1, there was a town loss later!

And I f-cking don't care how bad I look by posting this. I don't think she's scum, period. If she happens to be one, you can try to lynch me Tomorrow. Fair trade, I suppose, isn't it?

UNVOTE: Texcat

I might still go back on her, but I don't want her getting hammered yet. And I'm starting to have some second thoughts about her based on some of the weaker votes on her wagon. I want to hear some more justifications for the vote on her, particularly from Masquerade and KT.

@Aneninen - who would you propose as today's lynch?

Alexcellent · Post Post #382 (isolation #19) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:16 pm

Reads list in order of towniest to scummiest:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Masquerade I'd be fine with a Masq or Dr lynch today.

Alexcellent · Post Post #383 (isolation #20) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:17 pm

In post 324, wgeurts wrote:

Alexcellent

His first post 9 looks a bit odd and awkward however isn't too alignment indicative as people are claiming. What's more condemning is his personal-bubble he only reacts to; all his posts until 300 are reactions to things concerning him. He lacks any reads outside of this bubble and isn't discussing things either. The way he coasted on his BW read looks really shady as it was an RVS vote, which he never later justifies with further explanation. He also has a scum-read on Texcat which he explains in post 120, the reasoning there is weak and honestly just wrong. I want reads from him on other players as well as further explanation as to why he scum-read BW and is scum-reading Texcat.

I don't think my reasoning there was necessarily wrong, jumping off a wagon that people start questioning is a suspicious thing to do and it didn't seem to line up with her own logic at the time of the L-3 wagon being fine, so I didn't understand her suddenly jumping off. That followed by her PR question was just iffy for me. But the reasoning there isn't strong enough for me to want to see her lynched.
I was fine with leaving my vote on Blacle based on 95 and 100 being dodgy and not liking his Maxous vote at the time.

In post 324, wgeurts wrote:

texcat

Despite all the hassle texcat placing Alex at L-3 and unvoting remains non-alignment indicative and it will remain so all game, possibly with the exception of some scum-flips.

Do you feel this way about all RVS actions or just this one in particular?

Alexcellent · Post Post #384 (isolation #21) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:20 pm

Maxous - has your tex read changed at all? Who are your scum reads?

Alexcellent · Post Post #385 (isolation #22) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:24 pm

The cases against Persivul are looking pretty flimsy to me.

Alexcellent · Post Post #391 (isolation #23) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:31 pm

It's not really my place to defend Persivul but

In post 324, wgeurts wrote:

Persivul

I'll be blunt, I think Persivul is scum. He hasn't done any scum-hunting nor does he interact with people. He's coasting big time, the intent to hammer and his recent jump onto texcat look awful as he explains neither. Once. Nada. "Bad vibes and I like the wagon" is not a good reason to be lynching someone, I don't understand how a logical player like him can accept someone's lynch without providing his two-cents. I know persivul's town and scum game, as town he's a lot more pro-active. As scum he coasts and makes the best of what he gets. Guess which we're seeing this game?

Maybe I should look at more of his games to get some more meta on him, but I would expect a logical player to not openly coast like this as scum. Him not explaining his votes isn't a scum tell. I think it's anti-town but why would scum do that? It makes them a lynch target.

In post 357, wgeurts wrote:
In post 355, Persivul wrote:VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

My god I literally cannot think how people think you are town right now.

This one post literally is my entire push against you summarised into one line. Coasting, opportunism and the whole package.

Like this, if he's scum and he's already being called out for not explaining his votes, why does he keep doing it so blatantly?

And Dr's case on him largely points to defensiveness in the early game when there's no cause or reason to be defensive. Most of the points in that case don't actually seem to point out real scum tells aside from the possible opportunism of his votes (i.e. on Texcat).

Alexcellent · Post Post #392 (isolation #24) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:32 pm

In post 348, wgeurts wrote:
In post 346, Persivul wrote:
In post 343, KuroiXHF wrote:Dude, I fucking get it if you have emergencies with your pets or families or whatever but if you're not going to be able to play this game, you should replace out.

Only three people have more posts than me. A couple people with fewer posts probably have more real content, but still, I'm at least in the middle of the pack as far as contribution goes. Check Masquerade's ISO and vote him if you want to charge someone with not playing the game.

p-edit: take your head out of your ass and put your vote somewhere useful.

This is bad, now this is the "why me fry my tell" I thought I saw with Clumsy earlier. Also the whole "I wouldn't do this as scum is" not correct as he does this as scum. I'll get some games as evidence.

What games was he scum and played like this? The meta might change my read.

Alexcellent · Post Post #396 (isolation #25) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:56 pm

I'll read through, and I might just go hunting through some of his other games and I'll give it some thought.

Alexcellent · Post Post #455 (isolation #26) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:30 pm

In post 454, wgeurts wrote:
In post 441, BlacleWorks wrote:Kuroi the better is decided in the results. Wgeurts will die before you push any lynches in this game. And when that happens you will be caught sooo good luck with whatever your planning

I'd hammer that Persival. Going to keep my vote where it is so everyone will remember how hard I tunneled Wgeurts so that when I flip town people can go back and examine the interaction from a confirmed town perspective.

If you kill me tonight you're facing a policy lynch tomorrow, can I get agreement on this from others? This is called leashing.

Couldn't this be manipulated by scum?

I'd rather Blacle just agree to not use his vig tonight. Given that the JK might jail him, two shots could end up wasted, so him using the vig tonight would be really bad for town.

Alexcellent · Post Post #458 (isolation #27) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:37 pm

Yeah, putting it that way, I'll agree

Alexcellent · Post Post #483 (isolation #28) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:51 am

Honestly this comes across as town v town to me more than anything, I'm not really comfortable with a geurts or persivul lynch.
I want to hear from Masquerade and KT's slot more than anything before the day ends

Alexcellent · Post Post #487 (isolation #29) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:44 am

In post 484, Aneninen wrote:

In post 483, Alexcellent wrote:Honestly this comes across as town v town to me more than anything, I'm not really comfortable with a geurts or persivul lynch.
I want to hear from Masquerade and KT's slot more than anything before the day ends

Whom do you want to lynch then?
How about Drmyshottizsik?

I could get behind that more so than a geurts/persivul lynch, if it comes down to it.

Alexcellent · Post Post #541 (isolation #30) » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:32 pm

UNVOTE:
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
Id prefer this lynch over geurts if possible

Alexcellent · Post Post #548 (isolation #31) » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:45 pm

In post 546, SirCakez wrote:Masq is a good vig shot yo

I second this

Alexcellent · Post Post #594 (isolation #32) » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:00 am

Does the frozen deadline mean we have a replacement?

Alexcellent · Post Post #1458 (isolation #33) » Thu May 12, 2016 2:11 am

Good game everyone!

Really thought scum had it in the bag with the massive bus, quicklynch on Wguerts and the horrible Blacle play. Cakez also played very, very well.
Kudos to Anen & Chilled, did an awesome job at the end there.

Really cool setup too
Thanks for modding davesaz!

Alexcellent · Post Post #1470 (isolation #34) » Thu May 12, 2016 3:32 am

In post 1452, Persivul wrote:I'm not sure that he would have played like that if he weren't a PR. He seemed to understand theory. If he had just chilled out a little he might have been a good player.

He more or less threw a recent newbie game I was in with his poor PR play there too. It just seems to be his MO.