Mini 1782 Game Over

[Clumsy]

VOTE: Clumsy

L-1

Let's get things moving.

Do you mean to a lynch, or is this a pressure vote?

Bottom of 958

I was willing to lynch. Still am. I don't buy him being busy. Every single post of his is a, "stay afloat" post. His scum reads are Mav is, "something is bothering me about him, and I can't figure it out". His read on myself is, "I could see a Roshar scum, seems like she just wants a lynch, but I could be wrong". Stop and look at the content he's actually provided in his recent posts. He has flung out a few, "I think these people may be scummy" but has zero content with which to back it up. My take? He's got nothing. It's really hard making cases at people when you know they're all town.

If you're a meta person, feel free to peruse my first game on the site. I think Smith linked it above, or you could find it on my profile. I was scum in my first game, and I had no problem making cases for or against people. I'm having a hard time reading people in this game though.

He looks kind of passive while under pressure for you, which pings me as somewhat scummy from my (limited) experience.

I was gonna say that passive swings both ways. But since you find it scummy to be passive under pressure, aren't you implicating yourself?

Meh. I suppose you may be right. I was talking more about not really pushing back or anything, but I'm not exactly pushing back hard either. I think that's a personality thing on me, but it could be for him too. Meh. Disregard my point on this then I guess.

Shaddowez seems to be focused on beating people down than building up a case. It seems like a lot of discrediting is his priority.

Speaking of discrediting, I don't recall seeing you mention any town reads. In your recent posts you've thrown shade at Maverick, myself, Shaddowz, APF, Pisskop.

No wait, the

ONLY

post you liked was from Maxous that you, "like and think it's town, even though it's against me".

So the only post you end up 'liking' you use to make you appear more town?

Not using it to make me look town. Just my thoughts on it. This is the first game I've played where I don't have any solid town reads. Which is really weird for me. I usually have one or two people at least that are sitting very high on the town ladder for me, but that's not really a thing this game. Max is probably my top townread at this point, but that's also Jake's slot, and I don't know what to make of that. Null on the recent replacements, nothing's really happened there yet.

Also, could you point out where I've thrown shade at Pisskop?

@Clumsy - when/why did your read on Maverick change? You said he's lean town in post 561.

My read changed with that post you mentioned. If I am being 100% honest, I have no logical reason for feeling that he may be scum. His play so far has been pretty good. But there's that gut feeling sitting there that I can't shake. I dunno, I could be wrong. Just getting my thoughts out there.

[Clumsy]

Sorry, just saw this, although a bit more information would be nice:

That post was about Maverick. But now I'm back to on the fence with him. It's almost exclusively gut though. Something is bothering me about him, and I can't figure it out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and he was a lot more aggressive and talkative in each. One was town and one was scum, so it's hardly certain, but the difference here is jarring, and I suspect it's because he's been trying to keep his head down among what's been, let's just say, some aggressive personalities. He hasn't been scum reading anyone, he hasn't been getting into the fray, he's been keeping his head down as much as he can.

If he was chatty as town and scum, he could be posting less as town and scum? Interestingly, I get the impression that he's a bit non-committal in general which conflicts with the aggressive play you saw in his other games.

I wouldn't say I was aggressive per-say, but much more active yes. This is a good point. If I acted basically the same in both games, why is me acting different this time making me scum? Especially if how I played in my scum game led to a win? Why would I change that? Why am I scum instead of town, or a town PR trying to lay low?

Also, I've had a read through his ISO and come up with these:

-_- If you would care to look at my game history, I only have 2 completed games here. Both of them Newbie games. 9 players, 2 scum. Haven't been in a 12 person game. I thought there would be 3 scum, but I wanted to make sure so I didn't have any errors in logic. The fact that you think it's a ham handed fake townslip is one of the more egotistical things I've seen in a while. Which is saying something.

I read this as a firm response to Lowell saying he faked a townslip. But APF thinks he missed an opportunity to question Lowell further (post 964)

Maybe I did miss the opportunity. At the time I was annoyed, and I'm still learning how to push things well.

At first, I had the impression that Maverick was just vote hopping to whatever looked good repeatedly. Going with the flow. After going back and ISOing though, it's not true. Decent vibes from this so far. Lean town.

Town read on Maverick.

@APF - you interpreted these as empty words in post 964?

My eyes are throbbing as I read the frst 8 pages.


RC is kund of floating around, and that indicative of him being scummy. But Titus I feel much better about reading.
APF is kind of naughty too. Didnt like much he did.

He has been kind of quiet, which is odd because from the games I've read, he's usually pretty talkative, right? (Not that I can say much on this. >_<)

Just for clarity, is this saying Titus is a town-lean for you?

[my edit]

As for the ISO, I did look into it, but didn't find as much as I had hoped. I like your side of it more, but I could see a scum team between you with this used as distancing. What is interesting is that while you're pushing him pretty hard, you stay near the middle of his readlist. He looks kind of passive while under pressure for you, which pings me as somewhat scummy from my (limited) experience.

Asking pisskop for a concrete read/clarification. Attempted analysis of Roshar/APF ISO. (Fair enough that this was after being pressured.)

I'm way more convinced by my own argument for lynching Max

I like this post from Froot Loop. The only thing I could see bad about this post is the argument that she knows I'm town and wants to look good defending me if/when I flip, but meh, you could say that about anyone. This could also be bias because she's not trying to string me up today, but also meh. I think it brings up good points.

[Clumsy]

I suppose add Froot to the people I think are town.

[shaddowez]

All caught up now but I still need to recheck some stuff.

My initial scum reads are Roshar, Froot Loop and Clumsy but there are one or two others who haven't made an impression on me and I need to look back to see why that is.

@Huntress

- You seem to have disappeared. I know I'm about the third person to ask you this, but some of your reasons behind these reads would be nice.

I kinda agree regarding Shadowez, I wasn't stoked with him popping in with a wall full of questions earlier.

And what would you have rather seen? I mean, if you're scum I can understand why you wouldn't want me to try and figure out people's motivations or get explanations.

I'm alright with a Clumsy lynch, as well. He's unwilling to give any solid reads, and constantly says we should wait or he needs to re-read (see spoiler).

@APF: Absolutly. Also, RC is obv scum for reasons too secret for me to publicly explain.

how the fuck can someone be obviously scum in a way too secret to be explained.

I meant to address this earlier too. If you do have some magic way of knowing that, you'll have to tell us this "secret" reason or you won't be getting those votes.

Convenient that you "meant to address it" but didn't until after somebody else did.

Spoiler: Clumsy quotes

I'm not sure what to make of Roshar or APF. I'm gonna

have to re-read

through things with them, but I do feel like there might be something there.

Ugh, I had a post written up yesterday and never posted it.

Give me a few to catch up

and remake what I can remember from before.

I have my own feelings on this, but I want to hear why you think it's scum first RC.

I'll explain my side after.

I... t

hink we need to wait

Roshar. The intent and claim and whatever is fine, but with all these replacements

I think we need to wait

on everyone to get in here before a lynch.

If anything, a hammer here with so many people absent is incredibly scummy and opportunistic.

We should have discussion, especially with new faces coming in, no?

So...

I guess for now we wait

?

Rude.

I really want to hear from all the replacements.

Fresh views and discussions will help I think, and we have plenty of time.

@MOD: I will be out of town and V/LA from Friday to Sunday next weekend (April 15th-17th).

But yes,

re-reading everything while skipping over Jake's stuff is my plan of action too

.

Hrm, let me rephrase. I dislike meta reading THE MOD in games like this. But I'm not in disagreement with you. If it was scum/scum, they wouldn't have replaced out I don't think. But I do think that it was NAI from the mod, because it was just behavior to far.

Basically, back to re-reading for me.

VOTE: Clumsy -

Back at L-1

[pisskop]

Okay.

Troughing through the fight and before such a distraction and drain upon the game

[Ircher]

VC Incoming. Prodding Pisskop (1d 23h)

[pisskop]

HA!

So you admit I wasnt due for a prod!

Close enough. Besides, many of you have been posting right before prod timing. I'll check timestamps though to decide whether to count it or not.
Alright, I won't count it as you still had 50 minutes left.
~Ircher

[Ircher]

Vote Count - Day 1 VC #14

Titus (0) -
Mhsmith (1) - Nos
Huntress (0) -
Froot (0) -
Pisskop (0) -
Max (2) - Froot, Titus
Maverick (0) -
Shaddow (0) -
Nos (0) -
Plain (0) -
Lowell (0) -
Clumsy (6) - Lowell, Maverick, Plain, Mhsmith, Rosh, Shaddow
Rosh (0) -
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (4) - Clumsy, Pisskop, Huntress, Max

Deadline

Day 1 will end on April 19, 2016 5:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2016-04-19 17:30:00).

Lynch Threshold

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod Notes

Clumsy will be V/LA April 15-17

Prodding Pisskop

- Technically, the prod was due in 50 minutes, so I won't count it against him.

[Lowell]

Anyone who asks things like "is this a pressure vote, or a lynch vote" is inherently suspicious, IMO.

Also congrats to clumsy on almost having an opinion a few posts ago. Big move.

[pisskop]

:v


Im just busting fluid sacs

[Clumsy]

I'm not sure what else I can do at this point to help this. I've been as honest as I can, and given what I have. I'd be wary of anyone jumping on my wagon in the middle, or anyone carefully staying away from it. I would still like the next 5 days to be used for the replacements to get in and get established before the lynch though.

Man, I can't believe I'm being dissed by a pair of dice. =(

[Clumsy]

That being said, I totally would have self hammered if I was scum to cut off the time for discussion because it's pretty obvious that this is going to happen.

[Lowell]

Someone hammer, please.

[mhsmith0]

Typically we see notice of intent to hammer, along with an explicit role claim (or lack thereof). Any reason we need to quickhammer here?

[Nosferatu]

DL is in 5 days and not all replacements are caught up and involved. No reason to hammer atm.

[mhsmith0]

DL is in 5 days and not all replacements are caught up and involved. No reason to hammer atm.

btw Nos, what are your current thoughts? Any current scum reads? You say you're ignoring me, but you're still voting me, so I'd like some clarification on where you stand.

[Clumsy]

Someone hammer, please.

Why are you in such a rush to end the discussion Lowell? Don't want the replacements to get caught up?

[Ircher]

Noting that Maverick is due a prod in an hour, assuming he doesn't post. Dier will probably issue it, as I will not be on then.

[Nosferatu]

DL is in 5 days and not all replacements are caught up and involved. No reason to hammer atm.

btw Nos, what are your current thoughts? Any current scum reads? You say you're ignoring me, but you're still voting me, so I'd like some clarification on where you stand.

I'm not completely rid of my suspicion of you, but it's an afterthought at the moment and I'm not actually reading your posts in detail. Lowell is pretty suspect right now. I didn't like his vote on me. His recent hammer request isn't as significant but is still not very good.

RC is making me double take too but I don't really think anything good will come of trying to analyze his posts.

[Dierfire]

Prodding Maverick1102

[a plain farmer]

And I realize I'm scumreading Clumsy more than shaddow now.
VOTE: Clumsy

Could you explain why exactly? I can understand, because of my inactivity and the fact that others are thinking the same as you, but I'm wary of the runner up wagon jumping onto the leading wagon.

Because of the stuff I said in 964.

@ Nos:

I only analyze the posts of my scum reads when I have one, and I tonally read everyone else.

Which of these levels are you at with mhsmith? (or are you still leaning scum on him)

I'm ignoring him atm

Alright. I'd recommend against consciously ignoring people, but there's been enough debating of playstyles in this thread.

Do you have any thoughts on Clumsy or his wagon?

-_- If you would care to look at my game history, I only have 2 completed games here. Both of them Newbie games. 9 players, 2 scum. Haven't been in a 12 person game. I thought there would be 3 scum, but I wanted to make sure so I didn't have any errors in logic. The fact that you think it's a ham handed fake townslip is one of the more egotistical things I've seen in a while. Which is saying something.

I read this as a firm response to Lowell saying he faked a townslip. But APF thinks he missed an opportunity to question Lowell further (post 964)

It was more than just that he missed the opportunity. It's that he posits it as a result of egotism. That seems like an extremely improbable reaction to what Lowell actually said. Normally, when a town player reacts indignantly like this, they'll say something like "That's either the most egotistical thing I've seen in a while, or you're scum." But Clumsy didn't add that part to his accusation, and didn't ask about anything in any way that would make me think he thought about Lowell's alignment.

At first, I had the impression that Maverick was just vote hopping to whatever looked good repeatedly. Going with the flow. After going back and ISOing though, it's not true. Decent vibes from this so far. Lean town.

Town read on Maverick.

@APF - you interpreted these as empty words in post 964?

It felt like scum feeling easy about handing out a townread because of prior knowledge of what everyone's alignment is. Specifically, the way he said how his reads had progressed, despite there not actually having been evidence of such a progression.

[Froot Loop]

Anyone who asks things like "is this a pressure vote, or a lynch vote" is inherently suspicious, IMO.

I was trying to clarify Roshar's comment when she voted. Why is asking that scummy?

I get it with Clumsy but I just think that lack of activity and lack of reads go hand in hand. If he'd been posting loads without reads, I'd be more suspicious.

Thanks for clarifying, APF.

[Nosferatu]

Alright. I'd recommend against consciously ignoring people, but there's been enough debating of playstyles in this thread.

Do you have any thoughts on Clumsy or his wagon?

Evaluating the likelihood of Clumsy being VI vs scum.

I like the fact that Clumsy's got some votes, but the wagon itself seems kind of shoddy and irregular.

On the surface it seems good, but wagon composition gives meh vibez

[Froot Loop]

Max - why are you reading the fights as TvT? Is there anything specific you can point to? Also, can you clarify why you think Jake was close to getting lynched?

And I realize I'm scumreading Clumsy more than shaddow now.
VOTE: Clumsy

Could you explain why exactly? I can understand, because of my inactivity and the fact that others are thinking the same as you, but I'm wary of the runner up wagon jumping onto the leading wagon.

I won't keep harping on about this, but this post from Clumsy shows a total disconnect from the game. APF clearly stated the reasons for his suspicions and I don't see any reason for scum, in this situation, to ignore it. Also, unless my reading of the game is wrong, APF doesn't have any wagon. I would say that Max is the other person being talked about.

[Maxous]

not bothering to quote but Radiant Cowbells and Frozn Angel both having a go at each other and trying to figure each other out would point towards them being town considering they're friends.
If either was scum I would suspect the scum would try and appease and buddy the other to get an ally in the thread.
Neither did that and I would town-read the slots for it.

Frozen Angel was really really obvious town anyway and pisskop has been town too so I would be near 100% on that slot.
Maybe I could look to quote something from Roshar but she was pro-active and the arguments were solid so she came across as a town read.

-

Evaluating the likelihood of Clumsy being VI vs scum.

what's your definition of VI.

I kinda agree regarding Shadowez, I wasn't stoked with him popping in with a wall full of questions earlier.

And what would you have rather seen? I mean, if you're scum I can understand why you wouldn't want me to try and figure out people's motivations or get explanations.

asking a bunch of questions can be an easy way for scum busy-work without doing much.
to answer your question: a bit more of an analysis of the information