Mini 1785: Game Over!

[acryon]

Are you serious right now

Yes. Summarize your key points against Cavalry if it's not that the slot seems to be asking questions but not generating conclusions (which I disagree with).

[Mr Meeseeks]

a player replacing because they have a personal issue with another player is not even close to alignment indicative

Except it was down to not wanting to play with a "game thrower" and not an actual personal issue.

same thing? like, to have issues with an aspect of someones play, such as them game throwing, is a personal issue.

I guess you could argue he might have had some kind of personal issue with Fire and then lied about his reasons for replacing out to make his slot look more town, but it seems like a long shot.

you seem awfully hung up on this whole thing, like he can be both telling the truth and not town

Someone replacing out because they think Fire is a bad player is far, far more likely than someone replacing out because they have a personal issue with Fire that warrants blacklisting and then lying about it.

omfg seriously postie youre great and all but use your damn brain. if he doesnt want to play with fire because he game threw, hes still not gonna want to play with fire when hes scum for crying out loud, i shouldnt even have to explain this because christ on a bicycle it is pathetically simple

If Jake's issue was

gamethrowing

he would want to stay in the game as scum because town-Fire could

gamethrow

and hand him the win, or just generally be a destriment to town. Where am I losing you?
I suppose it's possible Jake replaced out because he was worried about gamethrowing if Jake's slot is on a scumteam with Fire. Is that what you're getting at? I didn't give it much thought before because I'm townreading Fire.

i think its just a fundamental disagreement on whether its scummy or not. if jake doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows, he doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows. simple as that. i have the honest opinion that jake would replace out regardless. i dont think jake would stay playing with someone who he believes gamethrows when he has a fundamental disagreement with gamethrowing, regardless of whether it could be used to his advantage or not.

you said you didnt agree with one point i made and made it out to be the whole case > i said "actually i said a lot more than that" > you said that oh you read it and disagree

now it seems to me theres a disconnect here

youre really starting to worry me postie because youre missing my point a lot of the time and something just feels

wrong

and ugh

because you acted like it didnt exist at all and now you say oh you just didnt agree and something about that seems off

Well when I first read it I was just too lazy to type all my problems with it because it was so long, and then Expedience covered it, so I figured there was no point in me doing it.
I can go over it now if you want?

did you miss the bit where i hugely disagreed with what expedience said even after (and he ignored it all btw) plus there are.. two more memorable things that have bugged me about jarjar since then if you want to hear

sitting back, commenting and saying their town takes little effort and barely reduces the chances of them being lynched, but you can look good when they flip town, and this will 9/10 times get someone questioned, especially if they start bragging about having done it. it makes sense he would avoid that

Well, sure, but defending more aggressively doesn't stop that happening; they'd get called out on it either way. Putting extra effort into defending lynchbait seems like something scum would want to avoid even more because it puts them in the spotlight. Why not just avoid calling them town at all?

do you honestly think scum want to always stay out of the spotlight

because if scum can put themselves into the spotlight in a way that looks good, it is great for them in retrospect, even if they get criticism at the time

scum dont just play short term. they have to play the long game too.

[Mr Meeseeks]

a player replacing because they have a personal issue with another player is not even close to alignment indicative

Except it was down to not wanting to play with a "game thrower" and not an actual personal issue.

same thing? like, to have issues with an aspect of someones play, such as them game throwing, is a personal issue.

I guess you could argue he might have had some kind of personal issue with Fire and then lied about his reasons for replacing out to make his slot look more town, but it seems like a long shot.

you seem awfully hung up on this whole thing, like he can be both telling the truth and not town

Someone replacing out because they think Fire is a bad player is far, far more likely than someone replacing out because they have a personal issue with Fire that warrants blacklisting and then lying about it.

omfg seriously postie youre great and all but use your damn brain. if he doesnt want to play with fire because he game threw, hes still not gonna want to play with fire when hes scum for crying out loud, i shouldnt even have to explain this because christ on a bicycle it is pathetically simple

If Jake's issue was

gamethrowing

he would want to stay in the game as scum because town-Fire could

gamethrow

and hand him the win, or just generally be a destriment to town. Where am I losing you?
I suppose it's possible Jake replaced out because he was worried about gamethrowing if Jake's slot is on a scumteam with Fire. Is that what you're getting at? I didn't give it much thought before because I'm townreading Fire.

i think its just a fundamental disagreement on whether its scummy or not. if jake doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows, he doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows. simple as that. i have the honest opinion that jake would replace out regardless. i dont think jake would stay playing with someone who he believes gamethrows when he has a fundamental disagreement with gamethrowing, regardless of whether it could be used to his advantage or not.

you said you didnt agree with one point i made and made it out to be the whole case > i said "actually i said a lot more than that" > you said that oh you read it and disagree

now it seems to me theres a disconnect here

youre really starting to worry me postie because youre missing my point a lot of the time and something just feels

wrong

and ugh

because you acted like it didnt exist at all and now you say oh you just didnt agree and something about that seems off

Well when I first read it I was just too lazy to type all my problems with it because it was so long, and then Expedience covered it, so I figured there was no point in me doing it.
I can go over it now if you want?

did you miss the bit where i hugely disagreed with what expedience said even after (and he ignored it all btw) plus there are.. two more memorable things that have bugged me about jarjar since then if you want to hear

sitting back, commenting and saying their town takes little effort and barely reduces the chances of them being lynched, but you can look good when they flip town, and this will 9/10 times get someone questioned, especially if they start bragging about having done it. it makes sense he would avoid that

Well, sure, but defending more aggressively doesn't stop that happening; they'd get called out on it either way. Putting extra effort into defending lynchbait seems like something scum would want to avoid even more because it puts them in the spotlight. Why not just avoid calling them town at all?

do you honestly think scum want to always stay out of the spotlight

because if scum can put themselves into the spotlight in a way that looks good, it is great for them in retrospect, even if they get criticism at the time

scum dont just play short term. they have to play the long game too

ebwop fixed

[MURDERCAT]

i think its just a fundamental disagreement on whether its scummy or not. if jake doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows, he doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows. simple as that. i have the honest opinion that jake would replace out regardless. i dont think jake would stay playing with someone who he believes gamethrows when he has a fundamental disagreement with gamethrowing, regardless of whether it could be used to his advantage or not.

I agree with this

[acryon]

i think its just a fundamental disagreement on whether its scummy or not. if jake doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows, he doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows. simple as that. i have the honest opinion that jake would replace out regardless. i dont think jake would stay playing with someone who he believes gamethrows when he has a fundamental disagreement with gamethrowing, regardless of whether it could be used to his advantage or not.

I agree with this

Me too.

[Postie]

Are you serious right now

Yes. Summarize your key points against Cavalry if it's not that the slot seems to be asking questions but not generating conclusions (which I disagree with).

Okay, so if you understand that part of my reasoning, why did you feel the need to misrep it as

it seems like you just had issue with Cavalry overexplaining?

[Postie]

if jake doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows, he doesnt want to play with someone who gamethrows. simple as that. i have the honest opinion that jake would replace out regardless. i dont think jake would stay playing with someone who he believes gamethrows when he has a fundamental disagreement with gamethrowing, regardless of whether it could be used to his advantage or not.

This is one of those things that sounds neat and reasonable in theory but I have a very hard time believing would actually work out that way in practice.

did you miss the bit where i hugely disagreed with what expedience said even after (and he ignored it all btw)

I don't really remember. I'll go back and find it.

plus there are.. two more memorable things that have bugged me about jarjar since then if you want to hear

Sure. Hit me.

do you honestly think scum want to always stay out of the spotlight

because if scum can put themselves into the spotlight in a way that looks good, it is great for them in retrospect, even if they get criticism at the time

scum dont just play short term. they have to play the long game too

In what way does it make them look good if everyone starts screaming about whiteknighting?

[Mr Meeseeks]

plus there are.. two more memorable things that have bugged me about jarjar since then if you want to hear

Sure. Hit me.

1) you- fuck i just checked this and its wrong OH WELL let me explain what it was going to be just so you dont accuse me of backpedaling on claiming two
what i was

going

to say is a while after you joined you did an "unvote: whoever" which really bugged jarjar when kush did it but he ignored you doing it
because i thought youd been in the game long enough that youd made a vote and then changed your mind and did that potentially to reaction test jarjar buuuuut i just checked and it was just who you were voting before OH WELL MOVE ONTO REASON TWO
2) jarjar has spent a lot of his time complaining that noone has given proper reasons for him, he claimed he used ad hom against rc because there were "no reasons beyond hes scum" and in this post he said hed love to hear my other reasons so he could respond to them and ive given more reasons since then and WHAT DO YOU KNOW he looked straight past them and entirely ignored them which is wonderufl

do you honestly think scum want to always stay out of the spotlight

because if scum can put themselves into the spotlight in a way that looks good, it is great for them in retrospect, even if they get criticism at the time

scum dont just play short term. they have to play the long game too

In what way does it make them look good if everyone starts screaming about whiteknighting?

well ideally they defend well enough that noone accuses them of whiteknighting, obviously
ill stop this particular line here, this is just gonna go around in circles

[nnn_thekushmountains]

See if I didn't have a meta read of you being terrible as town,

lolwut

i can call rc a lot of things

but terrible as town? fuck off if you honestly think that

sure, he's bad at giving reasons and convincing others to join his wagons, but rc's accuracy at finding scum is honestly astonishingly good at times

so my immediate reaction to you saying this is "scum discrediting town because scared of correct reads"

That exchange with mc made me less suspicious of him sadly.

Read this guys ISO and tell me you don't see post like this over and over again.

He
Has
Attacked
Nobody
!
!
!

as in..? people have different types of play of mafia. some people arent particularly pushy and attack-y, and thats a playstyle difference through and through in my eyes.

WHO IS SCUM KUSH?!?!?!?

i mean, presumably who hes voting? like, the votecount was about 6 posts above this, its not that hard surely.

I'm going to recant my MC scumread and omgus scumread IAMINNOCENT

Then vote me! Push others to vote me! Do something! Show me u care more about catching scum than upsetting others!!!

Ur play does not line up with a town agenda at all.

Still happy with my vote.

didnt he just say his main scumread/person he wanted lynched was autti?

WHO IS SCUM KUSH?!?!?!?

it's day 1 bro!!!!!
I think autti is the best lynch.

yes

yes he did

I'm going to recant my MC scumread and omgus scumread IAMINNOCENT

And why would u recant one scum read just cause u have another?

i mean it seems to me that they are separate events that just happened closely - kush interacted with mc to see what he thought, and was deciding that he was town around when you attacked him for "not attacking people", so i dont see how you automatically assume that they are for the same reason, or hes recanting a scumread to replace it with another

yeah, im gonna put my scumteam right now at jarjar/lapsa/innocent

I've played several games now with RadiantCowbells and here's the list of reasons to think he's good at mafia:

- He tells people that he's good at mafia

look dude

ive seen a game, a 13 player game with 2 scum, where radiantcowbells borderline single-handedly got both scum members killed before d2

saying that rc is bad at mafia is objectively wrong

Interaction between RC and me in the last game I played.

I am not tolerating any lynches besides a Ricastle lynch today.

cool story bro

All the skeevy sons of bitches are pushing the lynch away from him.
The people that I like are pushing the lynch towards him.

After he flips town, u gonna say that the people pushing the lynch away from him were just doing it for the towncred?

I'll let u guys guess what Ricastle flipped as. I have no idea why anybody would ever pay attention to anything RC says.

"wow guys rc got a single read wrong once he must be crap at mafia"

like fuck off, seriously, who the fuck doesnt get reads wrong every now and again?

this is scum trying to discredit someone, seriously, vote jjd please people its the right thing to do

JJD, why do you keep bringing up how bad RC is? What does that have to do with if she's scum?

Because he keeps telling people that I'm scum and for some reason people actually listen to him.

quote a single person who has voted you because of rc. i know that i at the very least came to this read independent of him

in fact, dont bother. ive just isoed both of the others who have voted you (garmr and fire assassin) and the only time either of them addressed rc in regards to you was garmr also telling you to stop discrediting rc - after both of them had voted you. there is literally no evidence that either of them voted you because of rc.

so nice lying there, seriously people this is scum look

Postie replaces Autti. Please welcome her!

fuck yeah posti- wait youre really good as scum arent you fuckkkkk youre gonna be fun to read

youre cool though, so welcome

Hello, I replaced Jake from State Farm, probably. Haven't read the thread yet.

welcome you too!

Of course Jakes replacement is gonna scum read me.

could you explain what you meant by this sentence?

We all have our on and off games jarjar but judging from our on games rc and I have at least demonstrated the ability to play above average sometimes (I'm hit or miss and I acknowledge this)

I have never seen anything noteworthy from you.

Then why did you say this?

Lapsa case is garbage. bad lynch.

are you scum or just not very smart?

I don't think jar jar is garbage as a player so I would lean scum.

If I'm not garbage, and I'm not above averarage then I'm.... what?

Looks like I'm whatever best fits your agenda at the time.

wow seriously

LOOK AT THIS SCUM!

he has just painted garmr describing him as "not garbage" and "not noteworthy (exceptional)" and has painted that as scummy, rather than reaching the logical conclusion that he is average

like fuuuuucking hell this is painting absolute rubbish as scummy, like seriously

Why? I think he made the account so he could play differently.

This is a wierd train of thought. You're saying that Postie shouldn't trust her meta read of fire because he possibly made an alt account so he can act differently?

i mean to me that seems like the opposite of a weird train of thought

like, if hes made an alt and made little attempt at hiding it, you can guess that its to do with playing differently (and if you have played with firebringer main before, he is playing

very

differently here)

yo meeseeks how was this attack on iai relational?

[acryon]

Are you serious right now

Yes. Summarize your key points against Cavalry if it's not that the slot seems to be asking questions but not generating conclusions (which I disagree with).

Okay, so if you understand that part of my reasoning, why did you feel the need to misrep it as

it seems like you just had issue with Cavalry overexplaining?

Because those two aren't actually that far apart? Overexplaining tends to mean you're doing extra explaining instead of doing something else. In this case, that's generating conclusions. So is that it? It also seems odd to go after someone for not bringing conclusions when they seemed to have disappeared from the game altogether.

Pedit: Heavens kush, please spoiler posts like that.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

my b

[Mr Meeseeks]

yo meeseeks how was this attack on iai relational?

have a look at all of his posts i have a big problem with

see who theyre all directed towards

see why it is relational to an extent

[nnn_thekushmountains]

yo meeseeks how was this attack on iai relational?

have a look at all of his posts i have a big problem with

see who theyre all directed towards

see why it is relational to an extent

So a townread on me required to make his posts scummy?

[MURDERCAT]

We are under 24 hours to deadline by the way.

[JarJarDrinks]

2) jarjar has spent a lot of his time complaining that noone has given proper reasons for him, he claimed he used ad hom against rc because there were "no reasons beyond hes scum" and in this post he said hed love to hear my other reasons so he could respond to them and ive given more reasons since then and WHAT DO YOU KNOW he looked straight past them and entirely ignored them which is wonderufl

But you didn't really say anything. Basically everything after that post was attacking me for calling RC bad.

The only other point you made was this, which I'll address:

JJD, why do you keep bringing up how bad RC is? What does that have to do with if she's scum?

Because he keeps telling people that I'm scum and for some reason people actually listen to him.

quote a single person who has voted you because of rc. i know that i at the very least came to this read independent of him

I guess that does look like I'm implying that RC actively got people to vote for me. That's not what I meant. All I was saying is that RC is a player that people seem to listen to and respect the opinion of and I was trying to let people know that they shouldn't do so.

And it's evident that people will listen to RC since he just hard scumreads people and gives barely any reason to do so and nobody questions him about it. If Random Joe Mafiaplayer did shit like that, he's be getting scumread for it by everyone.


Are there any other points U made that u feel I'm dodging?

[Expedience]

l y n c h c a v a l r y

[acryon]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Lapsa (2):

acryon, RadiantCowbells

Garmr (1):

JarJarDrinks,

JarJarDrinks (1):

Fire Assassin

Postie (1):

Calvary

Calvary (6):

I Am Innocent, Postie, Expedience, Garmr, Lapsa, Mr Meeseeks <-- L-1

I Am Innocent (2):

nnn_thekushmountains, MURDERCAT

Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

@Mod

I want to second the request for an extension for Cavalry replacement.

I will be around tomorrow and will hammer Cavalry if necessary to avoid a NL, but otherwise I would urge everyone to consider elsewhere. Their overall disappearance I think answers a lot of the issues people have. This just feels like a really bad counterwagon.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Cavalry

JarJar, vote Cavarly as well or you could be lynched because you are a competing wagon.

Don't like this post at all. Don't worry, I'm aware of where the votes are now and obviously If it comes down to me vs Cavalry (or any player), I'll vote out of self preservation since I'm 100% sure of my own allegiance.

But I don't like being told I better vote someone or risk getting lynched.

It's true though.

Kush, how do you feel about fire? I'd rather vote fire than I am innocent. Garmr > fire > IAI

Not fire, not garmr.
Garmr is really town.
I trust Garmr's townread of Fire. Plus fire has been reasoning in my interactions with him.

It's not a serious townread, they are pretending to be masons as a joke.

Kush, how do you feel about fire? I'd rather vote fire than I am innocent. Garmr > fire > IAI

Not fire, not garmr.
Garmr is really town.
I trust Garmr's townread of Fire. Plus fire has been reasoning in my interactions with him.

You don't think there's any chance of Fire pocketing Garmr?

I bet you don't even believe this, scum.

a player replacing because they have a personal issue with another player is not even close to alignment indicative

Except it was down to not wanting to play with a "game thrower" and not an actual personal issue. I guess you could argue he might have had some kind of personal issue with Fire and then lied about his reasons for replacing out to make his slot look more town, but it seems like a long shot.
Someone replacing out because they think Fire is a bad player is far, far more likely than someone replacing out because they have a personal issue with Fire that warrants blacklisting and then lying about it.

@Fire

- Has Jake ever said he has some kind of personal qualm with you beyond thinking your play sucks?

I'm town, but it's not indicative. I don't think Jake really believes Firebringer is a gamethrower (he isn't), Jake's just salty.

im really sick of garmr vs jarjar.
im really sick of lapsa vs everyone.
They're all 3 of them town lol.

Well everyone can't be town.

What is this supposed to mean

Cavalry wagon is bad. Get off. Lapsa or Fire.

Not happening.

Seems like most of the issue people have with Cavalry essentially boils down to the slot being gone. Do you have another reason? Because the wagon seems like garbage.

This isn't a real thing.

[Postie]

Their overall disappearance I think answers a lot of the issues people have.

No.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

why

dont

people want to lynch iai?

[Postie]

Because those two aren't actually that far apart? Overexplaining tends to mean you're doing extra explaining instead of doing something else. In this case, that's generating conclusions.

You can overexplain and still make solid conclusions and take stances.
overexplaining =/= waffling

So is that it?

tl;dr:

(s)he's doing a lot of "scumhunting" but doesn't have much to show for it

It also seems odd to go after someone for not bringing conclusions when they seemed to have disappeared from the game altogether.

Calvary made 23 posts, most of which were wall posts with several paragraphs of content. You'd think there'd be

something

of substance in there.

[Postie]

why

dont

people want to lynch iai?

I'm townreading IAI because his thoughts have mirrored mine in a lot of places.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

why

dont

people want to lynch iai?

I'm townreading IAI because his thoughts have mirrored mine in a lot of places.

like where specifically?

[Fire Assassin]

I don't want Calvary lynched today.
I will fight this wagon to the death!

[Expedience]

How about Calvary?

???