The Third Fortnight (Game Over [Bonus Round])

[Gorkington]

vote: davsto

its time for you to meet your maker funny man

[Gorkington]

vote: davstoopid

[Gorkington]

im the most important person to react to dav.
what gives.

[Gorkington]

is dav worse at puns when hes scum?
;D
thatd be a great scumtell.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: reck

30 is a scumclaim

how.
boring.

[Gorkington]

but hip.
reck scumclaimed.
kind of suspicious that youd let that go.

[Gorkington]

im so on edge.
i might vomit.

[Gorkington]

the calm before the storm.

[Gorkington]

might be a little excited because i like the concept/playerlist.
i think antsy might be inaccurate desc wrt interactions with hiplop.

[Gorkington]

im so on edge.
i might vomit.

was making fun of hip.

[Gorkington]

too calm

yup.

more people need to come and rvs or say things.

[Gorkington]

Missed that amazing p1. Drat

what kind of johnny opening post doesnt have a vote. you pleb.

[Gorkington]

[<3]

[Gorkington]

have you played with snarky before?

[Gorkington]

my experience with him is that hes perpetual lynchbait,
that essentially hes the kind of player that i feel deserves a second and third glance before putting them in the scumbin.
does this influence your read there at all?

[Gorkington]

on another note.

i have a bit of a game that i want to play because ive been mulling over how useful pressure wagons are going to be early on in this setup.

basically, i would like for everyone to give an ordered list of the three people who you would be least inclined to shoot if we were to jump into n1 right now.

my picks would be:
i) quilford
ii) johnnyfarrar
iii) marquis

p-edit: booooooo.

[Gorkington]

I do think Reck's #74 reads as pretty awkward though.

i agree.
i kind of want to see reck get into the game before throwing too much pressure at him, if that makes sense?

[Gorkington]

i'm not one of your three
the list is automatically garbage

be town first, then complain.
nerd.

[Gorkington]

Spoiler: anti being null

VOTE: muffin

pCygnusxatjsHDjhdBfHDjbgakidejTVghguhdh

...how did you know that

i never said zmuff was my partner pre-reroll

i voted him but

.........hm

theres only one explanation

he rolled scum again and then blabbed to kat that he was sad bc he waz so ready to pwnz all the townz with you

gg no re

waiting for snarky to post a little more so i can mislynch him

how about u?

omg ur right how did i not townread this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gorkington]

let me wear my tryhard pants and try to impress all of the cool people in this game anti.
will you make a list and make me happy? <3

p-edit: implying im not also messing around.
silly goose.

[Gorkington]

idk why i thought i could do well in a game that's literally one giant d1 when i suck at d1

oh well

shhhhhh.
its okay.
you had a bit of an awkward start.
theres still time to turn it around!

make a list and i will possibly throw arbitrary townpoints at you!

[Gorkington]

gork did you not like marquis' first two posts

pedit - .

i arbitrarily liked marquis's posts more than most.
in spite of him being a jerk who's ruined my life consistently in the past.
i think you should read what the list means again.

[Gorkington]

stop being.
so.
enjoyable.

[Gorkington]

thats what you get for being so self-centered.

johnny do i get a list from you too?

[Gorkington]

im talking about your vig game you silly goose.

[Gorkington]

Ummm are we just making a short list of people to kill for scum or should I read the setup?

read the setup you goofball.
if youre scum faking this im gonna smack you.

[Gorkington]

hahahahahahahaha

[Gorkington]

i will treasure this moment forever.

[Gorkington]

is it.
t-bone?

my first guess was going to be me but i need to get over myself.
:'(

[Gorkington]

cogito!
thats my last guess!

[Gorkington]

maybe i just really dont want your kiss.

[Gorkington]

Not bandwagonning at this stage is tantamount to collaborating with the enemy.

i have my doubts about this but okay you win.

vote: bulge

[Gorkington]

discomforting!

[Gorkington]

hi bulge. is that the extent of your reaction to the wagon?

[Gorkington]

i have a lot of thoughts about this game and im not sure if they make sense anti or if they would be productive in the context of whats happening right now :/

[Gorkington]

not pooh-poohing the wagon itself, otherwise i wouldnt be on it. i just have qualms about whatever wagoning is going to mean in the context of a single-day game.

and the idea of a quicklynch is discomforting.

[Gorkington]

youre being awfully rude this game. :/

[Gorkington]

i think its pretty valid to say that the threat of a wagon is pretty empty if theres no intent to lynch. i cant imagine anyone being okay with lynching before a certain point. i didnt really want to talk about it because bringing it up makes that fact more apparent, but its still there. i dont appreciate being condescended at, especially if youre not even going to go into detail about why im wrong here. -.-

[Gorkington]

thats great. nothing in there has anything to do with my point about the threat of wagons being empty. if youre going to call my thoughts nonsense [which is what im taking as condescending here] then you should probably followthrough with actually dissecting what im saying instead of getting all worked up about things that im not even talking about.

[Gorkington]

obligatory shit unvote:

unvote

[Gorkington]

a d1 wagon is usually threatening because d1 can end at any point. being lynched is the threat there. if we're playing to use the full 14 days, then the edge of a wagon is lessened by that fact. if i have 7 votes on me, the only thing thats threatening me is a VI. the pressure is less than it ordinarily is. zzzzzz. i dont see how this is hard to grasp and i really dont want to devolve my attention into theorycrafting. essentially i just am not sure what i think is ideal strategy in this setup and its annoying. and its more annoying to point out my uncertainty there and have it be called nonsense q.q

[Gorkington]

ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. bad vibes. im glad that i play this game.

[Gorkington]

i like winning more than i like looking like im reasonable.

[Gorkington]

But yeah, Bulge is right

One of the scum has a flee. Leaving someone at L-1 will not end well. L-2 is fine, fear L-1 until we come to a final conclusion.

what is your read on bulge.

[Gorkington]

alright. im gonna give reads when i get home and then im probably replacing. im done with mafia.

[Gorkington]

im sorry i keep joining games. im fucking stupid apparently.

[Gorkington]

can everyone stop giving me sympathy? like. im a serial replacer. i dont deserve pity for it.

[Gorkington]

im gonna try to get into a good headspace and then give this game another try.
sorry for being melodramatic.

[Gorkington]

i didn't know i was playing with cheet! HI CHHET

hi!!

@cogito, just wondering what, in your eyes, is separating your play from t-bone's?

[Gorkington]

kuroi. if im understanding you correctly. you think scum built the wagon on bulge for the purpose of hopefully having someone quick hammer and end the day? and not because they want to appear like theyre trying to build wagons like a goody good town person?

[Gorkington]

[because if you genuinely believe that then i think youre severely underestimating the caliber of townplay/scumplay in this game.]

[Gorkington]

detach from the situation. its what im trying to do and i dont feel awful at the moment.

[Gorkington]

kuroi. im going to ask you to stop making generalizations because theyre not useful and draw attention away from more interesting things. if you think there was scum on the bulge wagon, you should be attacking specifics/specific people on the wagon rather than just calling the wagon itself bad. there are only two scum in this game. momentum of wagons is not a useful metric in any capacity.

[Gorkington]

dav im gonna need you to play my game of top 3 people you wouldnt shoot.

[Gorkington]

Needs to make me a paint avatar

need to open a ticket in the thread and i'll make it happen sometime in the next 2-3 months.

[Gorkington]

zMuffinMan ##

why is muffinguy hashtags?

[Gorkington]

kuroi is probably town.

[Gorkington]

whether hes effective or not, kuroi's indignance at being called unproductive reads town.

[Gorkington]

im gonna put a paragraph in my wiki called "made you look" and then start saying see my wiki. wouldnt pretend its a strong read at this stage, but in a game of this size it seems unproductive to ignore reasonably useful tells. [theres also that this feels nothing like scumKuroi]

[Gorkington]

Have you ever played with scumKuroi?

game of thrones.

[Gorkington]

ay quilford. tell me about another scumread of your's.

[Gorkington]

cheetory6.

[Gorkington]

thats fair. im probably not going to be reading anything external to this game until tonight though.

[Gorkington]

quillllllll. just let it go. this game doesnt need to get noisy and i trust you to rise above this sort of stuff okay?

[Gorkington]

are you gonna probe me, mr. moo cow? or was that the extent of your questioning for me?
:v

[Gorkington]

i more mean that i feel like you can be reasoned out of arguments into a more productive place.
i can get equally bogged down when im frustrated, so believe me when i say that i understand to some degree.

[Gorkington]

how much experience do you have with CES? how would you classify his scumgame from what youve seen of it?

[Gorkington]

also, quilford. i require your expert experience on davsto as well. what do you make of him?

[Gorkington]

hi t-bone. when can we expect you in this game?

[Gorkington]

will you be trying to work with town or are you just kind of intending on figuring stuff out on your own?
also, i feel like the activity of scum depends on the personalities of those who rolled scum more than anything, no?

p-edit: but he has 28 posts. does the lack of vibes youre getting from that many posts not ring alarms for you?

[Gorkington]

kuroi can you stop shitposting? like. i get it. youre indignant about being pushed. but there are plenty of productive things to be pushing/talking about and youre doing none of them. and im a snarky bitch. rarara.

[Gorkington]

do you think that scum in this setup doesnt have an extreme incentive to try harder than usual to appear town on D1?

[Gorkington]

basically everything youve done the last 3-4 pages has been shit.
and your play before it has been generalizing an entire wagon and whining about things that arent really that big of a deal to an extent thats borderline ridiculous.

by all means.
act like youre playing well.
but youre not.

[Gorkington]

kuroi is probably town because hes so being so obnoxious hes practically begging someone to fuck-it shoot him.

[Gorkington]

amazing how it just takes one.

[Gorkington]

I don't think you get how this works either?

just saw the flee option.
zzzzz.
okay yeah this setup is a lot harder than i thought.

[Gorkington]

b) that scum's win condition this game is to not be anyone's top suspect?

basically this point [in my head at least] applies equally to you [and to an extent me]. if youre hunting based on people acting protown, how do you distinguish t-bone's play from someone town who is playing overly protown? or is it a combination of lurkiness/attempts to look protown? also can you give an update on your read on t-bone with his latest comments?

[Gorkington]

hes planning on it.
dav you really need to expand your focus.

[Gorkington]

do things on your own pace. im a total hypocrite in saying this because my playstyle is very quantity over quality but, remember that other people need to catch-up and will find it hard to do so if the game is a noisy mess.

[Gorkington]

I don't like it that much in the full context of the game.

can you elaborate on this a little more?

[Gorkington]

boring.

[Gorkington]

Muffinman (I'm guessing he was joking about being an innocent child)

yeah maybe.

[Gorkington]

i think a back-and-forth between reck/quilford would be more productive than this.

[Gorkington]

yeah maybe i'll try this again tomorrow.
p-edit: maybe.

[Gorkington]

You are literally the most town person in this game for miles so I would really appreciate it if you would share your thoughts on Davsto and why you took your vote off him

im not really sure i can explain why im not pushing davsto before he comes and catches up.

and if he takes too long to do so then i may consider voting him again.

[Gorkington]

i'm learning that quil probably thinks i'm an idiot

that doesnt sound productive to me.
but fair enough on the latter point i guess.
i dont think youre an idiot.

[Gorkington]

make sure next time you post just "pagetop!!!!" when you get it.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: hiplop
with proper tags and all.

the rhetoric hes using is really consistently hamming it up from start of ISO to end.
and lack of engagement literally anywhere looks ridiculously safe.

look at how awkward those gorkington posts are. Seriously seems on edge and fabricated

tried really hard to let this go, but man, this is just still as awful as the first time i looked at it and theres been no established turnaround on the read here.
hip's last experience with me was Cheetory Mafia, where he basically pushed a tonal-based scumread on me earlyD1 that nearly derailed the game into apathy and nonsense. for him to pretend like he can read my earlygame just reads scrappy as fuck to me.

i literally tried to ignore feelings about this because i dont have much confidence in reading people who are making pushes on me, but i do earnestly feel like hippy should know better than this with enough time to reflect on it.

CES is not only trying to rile sentiments AGAINST me, but he is clumsily jumping on both the davsto and bulge wagon

same kind of rhetoric.

just feels to me like hip is trying to be here and make pushes while not actually trying to sort anything.

happybirthday anti.

[Gorkington]

its never too late.
am i crazy for thinking that hiplop should know better after cheetory mafia?

[Gorkington]

her last post was even longer ago.
i sense a plot is afoot.

[Gorkington]

omfg quilford is town.

[Gorkington]

okay ive hit my shitposting quota for today.
people can hit me up @mythoughtsregarding hiplop or something whenever.
im gonna stare at my wall in the meantime.

[Gorkington]

you could make 548 and paste it into practically any game on this site just because people in general have fucked up and laughably wrong ideas about what is scummy

i think muffin is right in that if i was scum this game, i would probably be having a field day.
scumgames are obnoxious because pretending to be town for months on end is exhausting for me.
but i do earnestly believe that with the short deadline it would be pretty easy to bring a level of effort that would probably make it hard for anyone to do anything short of hero shoot me.

[Gorkington]

i liked this setup a lot more without the concept of fleeing.

[Gorkington]

quilford!
i would like you to argue at me your hiplop townlean!
!

[Gorkington]

i did it.
i created a wagon that i like.

[Gorkington]

i think if scum had independent wincons going into night and just didnt have a flee that would be a better setup.

[Gorkington]

sorry i realize this is already drifting very dangerously towards entirely useless setup talk.
i just really like the idea of this setup in theory and would be very interested in moderate tweaks to it.

[Gorkington]

dav you had better get in here soon.

[Gorkington]

I get where you're coming from, but sometimes people are like that and continue even if they were wrong before, plus fucking up a read once doesn't mean it's always wrong forever, so it's not weird for hiplop to still think he could.

i wouldnt be wonkied out if it was midgame and he was like "gork is scum".
but for him to enter the game with any confidence in his ability to read my earlygame is just what.

now.
i would very much like you to explain why you thought it was worth defending someone so seriously that you then proceeded to vote?
why does it feel like nothing youre doing this game has literally any weight at all dav?????

[Gorkington]

like.
i can get being disengaged.

but i just feel like.. most of what youre doing is just padding.
there isnt any substantial effort to try and parse anyone's alignment.

is that fair or no?

[Gorkington]

you know 1-off votes with little reasoning are probably going to do nothing?

i still want a follow-up on the pressure you were intending on giving me.

[Gorkington]

sheeping is more valid than people give it credit for.
regardless of whether bins was kidding or not.

[Gorkington]

Tempted to sheep for the rest of the game until Moo Cow gets off his high horse

hi johnny.
i missed you.

have you found my hiplop case yet.

[Gorkington]

also your bulge vote is a snore.
do you still like it?

[Gorkington]

VOTE: hiplop
with proper tags and all.

the rhetoric hes using is really consistently hamming it up from start of ISO to end.
and lack of engagement literally anywhere looks ridiculously safe.

look at how awkward those gorkington posts are. Seriously seems on edge and fabricated

tried really hard to let this go, but man, this is just still as awful as the first time i looked at it and theres been no established turnaround on the read here.
hip's last experience with me was Cheetory Mafia, where he basically pushed a tonal-based scumread on me earlyD1 that nearly derailed the game into apathy and nonsense. for him to pretend like he can read my earlygame just reads scrappy as fuck to me.

i literally tried to ignore feelings about this because i dont have much confidence in reading people who are making pushes on me, but i do earnestly feel like hippy should know better than this with enough time to reflect on it.

CES is not only trying to rile sentiments AGAINST me, but he is clumsily jumping on both the davsto and bulge wagon

same kind of rhetoric.

just feels to me like hip is trying to be here and make pushes while not actually trying to sort anything.

happybirthday anti.

[Gorkington]

I mean I didn't really defend hiplop, I just slightly disputed your point. I also fail to see how that escalates to "EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING HAS NO WEIGHT". The fuck does that even mean, any way?

grrrrrrrr
i hate it when people do this.

OKAY.

every single.
vote.
youve made.
has had nothing behind it that i can see.

yes?

every vote has been framed as a bandwagon vote.

yes, youre questioning things.

but we're X-days in now [i think like 5?] and you havent espoused a single read from anything youve questioned/pushed besides the no-shoot reads i forced out of you.
youve essentially voted because "lol bandwagons are cool i guess" and "lol u suck kuroi".
no weight.

tell me why im wrong for thinking this.

or im going to think your reaction was overblown on purpose.

[Gorkington]

scum in Quil, Dav, CES? Probably only one.

hippy.
im gonna need like.
reasons.
k?

if you could hit me in the face with why you thought it was a good idea to try a repeat of cheetory mafia with me, thatd be great too.

[Gorkington]

jah. @quil

@dav, talk about scumhipread more please [even though i think this is practically softball-level at this point q.q]

[Gorkington]

What, ask perfectly reasonable questions so you can explain what you're saying?

im saying that it should be obvious why i think your play this game has been relatively lackadaisical.
and you using rhetoric here is frustrating and annoying given this.

p-edit: tardis mafia.

[Gorkington]

gahhhhh see.
like.
thats just so.
easy.

all of that stuff is right there on the surface.
yes it makes hiplop weird and he should explain himself [even if i have my doubts that he even will -.-]
BUT.
again.
i feel like theres this level of not actually trying to figure out whether any of that is actually scummy or not?
iuno.
im just trying to figure you out and i feel like its harder this game than it should be. :/

[Gorkington]

While my votes on Bulge and hiplop started off as bandwagon votes, they both evolved into proper votes

talk about bulge scumread more please?
is it just the lack of reaction thing you were talking about before?

[Gorkington]

i feel like youre vaguely handling pressure better than in paint mafia?
maybe?

i also feel like theres maybe less pressure here.

ugh.

[Gorkington]

hows it going

[Gorkington]

half a scumteam to hunt if we're wrong.

[Gorkington]

im pretty sure on a base statistical level, our best shot at nabbing scum at any point in this game is with the lynch.
therefore it should be the decision we take the longest making.

[Gorkington]

especially since hip is basically going to have to come back and explain shit.
what if he obvtowns when he gets back into the game?
then we used our strongest tool because we were just impatient and didnt want to figure shit out.

[Gorkington]

johnny this conversation is boring.

just scumhunt.

sheesh.

[Gorkington]

I haven't been lynched as scum in like 2 years. Get lynched as town semi often.

Is that clue enough that you guys are seriously off base

are you just going to do this?
or can we actually expect you to fill in the blanks that are people are asking you to?

[Gorkington]

lmao true.
hahaha

[Gorkington]

can you stop whatever this appeal is and actually play the game?
please?

[Gorkington]

The game I was everyone's top town read until I was confscum by setup is a prengood example yea you're right

you werent even confscum by the setup.
the two most lynchable people ended up being PRs.
that leaves like 4-5 other people who werent confscum and you got lynched over them.

[Gorkington]

zzzz.

[Gorkington]

if youre going to be angry, maybe come back later?

im not going to try and parse anything youre doing if youre just going to throw rhetoric at the game.

[Gorkington]

yeah honestly anti seems pretty town this game.

[Gorkington]

can you talk at me about why you thought that poking me earlygame was a good idea after TWD?

[Gorkington]

yeah because when it happened in TWD it turned out so great for the gamestate when you thought you could read my earlygame tone? right?
:/

[Gorkington]

STILL?

lol

>:(

if you keep up this prickly shit im not gonna give a shit about sorting you.

[Gorkington]

should we start scumreading you because youre playing more now because scumhiplop is better at squirming out of lynches?
ohohohohoooo.

this kind of self-meta is stupid.

[Gorkington]

sorry if i offended you but i have no idea how that could be hurtful

your entry to this game was rhetoricrhetoricrhetoric.
your followup was vacant/distracted.
and now youre being prickly as heck these last few pages about being scumread. i dont get how one gets pissed off about being scumread when their play this game so far is sketcharoo. i get that being scumread is frustrating. but tone down the rhetoric please. because its exhausting trying to parse it.

[Gorkington]

zzzzz.

[Gorkington]

reck also needs to get in here.

[Gorkington]

yup.

[Gorkington]

i still think hip is scum.
└(°ᴥ°)┘

[Gorkington]

why are you appealing to someone you think is scum?
:/

[Gorkington]

or are you not scumreading dav anymore?

[Gorkington]

dav.
this back and forth between you and hip is getting tired.

[Gorkington]

why are you being so selective with what you respond to?
-.-

[Gorkington]

why are you appealing to someone you think is scum?
:/

or are you not scumreading dav anymore?

please read the game.

[Gorkington]

snarklevel off the charts today.
ants are being assholes in my room.
sorry in advance.

[Gorkington]

can you be real explicit?
like.
is dav a townread/nullread/scumread or what?

p-edit: i am trying really hard to not be a pissy bitch.
harder some days than others.

[Gorkington]

can you talk about why?
whats your train of thought from start to finish there?

[Gorkington]

just because something isnt helpful for you doesnt mean it isnt helpful for me.

im currently leaning towards you being scum, largely because im finding it hard to see where youre getting most of your reads/thoughts from beyond a base emotional level.

even if its like pulling teeth, i would rather try to understand why youre at where youre at over just mindlessly pushing you or listening to dav push the same few questions on you over and over.

i have a decent number of townreads.

which essentially means that theres a sortpile and most of that sortpile is quiet people.

if the loudest people all get eliminated from the sort pile, then the quiet people have less places to hide.

i dont want to clutter the game with noise.
but i do value sorting people enough that im willing to play ball with you if youre willing to actually engage me here.

[Gorkington]

he called me town and then someone voted me and decided I was his scummiest read

do you still feel like this is a fair assessment of quilford's read on you?

[Gorkington]

I'm pretty blatantly town, cheet.

evidently not, or you wouldnt be the main wagon for 2-3 days.

[Gorkington]

what have you done here that you wouldnt do as scum?
genuinely curious.
and please dont say the line about how you never get lynched as scum.

[Gorkington]

if i can pull a townread out of you here, i will leave you to your devices.

but im not just gonna drop a scumread in a game where there are few scum and only one cycle.
this is my lead.
im not dropping it until i feel better about you.

[Gorkington]

he called me town and then someone voted me and decided I was his scummiest read

do you still feel like this is a fair assessment of quilford's read on you?

[Gorkington]

this is why mafia is tiring.
nobody actually tries to figure shit out anymore.

its just.
"WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH".

so fucking boring.

[Gorkington]

like fucking obviously exaggeration is a tool that scum can and will use to discredit people.

if you thought quilford was scummy and genuinely wanted people to look at him, why exaggerate your point there?

"WHO CARES" indeed.
zzzzz.

[Gorkington]

i actually used to like playing mafia.

[Gorkington]

youre a shitty person when you play mafia, you know that right?

[Gorkington]

you're right im the one being rude... :\

but whatever, sorry for offending you or whatever.

I suck at defneding myself against nothing? Not a good mafia quality.

im sorry for calling you a shitty person.
that was uncalled for.
i do feel like youre being unnecessarily difficult here, especially if youre town.

theres obviously reasons why people are voting you.
you may be town and you may feel like youre being unjustly scumread, but that doesnt justify you belittling people who are trying to figure out your thought process. being frustrating like that is going to bog down the game way more than questions and answers, especially since im asking you about things that you havent been asked about before. at some point, being abrasive makes you increasingly lynchable. people get tired of rhetoric and eventually they throw their hands up in the air and just say "fuck it, i dont care if this person is scum anymore".

if you let people try to sort your thought processes instead of calling it a waste of time, it may actually maybe derail the wagon on you and then you can be left alone and do what you need to do to scumhunt if you are in fact town this game.

i get that im a prick.
and i get that im frustrating in my nitpickiness, but there is a reason i play the way i play when im trying.

[Gorkington]

i will read old fortnight that you referenced soon though.
unfortunately you can probably expect questions about it too.

[Gorkington]

anti's scumgame isnt hyperaggressive????

[Gorkington]

his play seems pretty consistent this game.

[Gorkington]

asking for top three people you wouldn't kill seems like such a scum thing to do. Town would ask for a kill list.

why.

[Gorkington]

*wonders what Gorkington is going to make of all this*

we'll see.

[Gorkington]

have you read the setup nos?

[Gorkington]

cheely

you cheeky guy.
nah.
anti's probably town.
i was just pissy because he was called me a dumdum.

[Gorkington]

A not kill list is quintessentially against town's objective.

tell me why you think this.

have you read the setup nos?

in a setup where there is only D1, I'm fairly sure scum objective is still to survive a lynch and not get scumread. Now they just have to do it once.

and why does your point translate to this when it has nothing to do with being "against town's objective"?

i could get thinking that maybe i was faking being protown with that opening. it is earnestly probably something i could see myself doing as scum, albeit maybe using it as more of a crutch than i did.
but that isnt what you originally said. talk at me about why you changed your angle from "this guy is playing against town's wincon" to "hes trying to fake being protown".

might be being semantic here, but i'd still like you to elaborate.

[Gorkington]

theres nothing in johnny's catch-up that i really disagree with.

Notable here is Bulge defending bins

just fyi though, bins and bulge are loafbirds in the real world.
wooOoOOooo.

[Gorkington]

nah johnny's the man.

[Gorkington]

Unless there's some reason why a not kill lists is objectively more useful than a not kill list, I will stand by the point I've made.

you have a strange way of thinking about how scum play this game if you are town. what do you think my motivation would have been to do that as scum? try to look proactive without actually doing anything? why wouldnt i have just done the most proactive thing possible for townpoints if asking for a kill list is so much more beneficial to town than not? btw i do have some very good reasons for asking for not-kill-list vs kill-list. so you should probably beef up your case on me or im going to rain all over your parade.

[Gorkington]

would you like to share those reasons?

not even going to play my game.
tssk.

okay.
i asked for no-shoots vs shoots because i wanted to get the ball rolling with discussion.
townreads are easier than scumreads because there are more town in the game.
thereby, i figured it would be easier to ask for three townleans over three scumleans because most people struggle to justify most scumreads beyond "this person hasnt said much yet" earlygame.

i also had some thoughts about whether scum might be tempted to put their scummate in their no-shoot list and whether that could be something to probe into later on. have my doubts about whether that was an actually valid thought but it still seems smart to me now!

basically i wanted to get the ball rolling and have some discussion which wasnt just centered around a few scumreads because, as ive mentioned before, wagons in this game dont feel like they have the same hitting power, so discussion is important.

are you going to keep shitslinging at me for bad reasons now?
or do i have to bust out my mean face?

[Gorkington]

and believe me im tempted to bust out my mean face after you basically insinuated that the rest of my ISO was uninspiring.
this is probably as town as i get in a mafia game.

[Gorkington]

@Gork I thought it was to gauge "how useful pressure wagons are going to be early on in this setup"

not really sure what this means?

[Gorkington]

I'm here for questions, reactions and to discuss the lynch. Who's here?

i'll be here tonight. sleep has consumed my nightlife.

Problem is the nature of this setup seems to actively discourage town openness with reads and cohesion.

i have literally no idea why you feel this way.

[Gorkington]

davsto
anti
johnny
====
bins
bulge

====

quilford
cogito
kuroi

====

marquis
muffinman
====
katsuki
====
pere
nos
snarky
====
hiplop

if youre town, the blue line is what you should aspire to reach and the red line is the bare minimum of where you should try to get in the next 4-5 days.
especially for the lurksackpile between kats/hip.

i really want to see more game-related non-mechanics talk from everyone below the red line.

[Gorkington]

have a hard time believing you faking some of the stuff in your hiplop push.

[Gorkington]

He was doing the "name three people" thing because he thought pressure wagons weren't that useful. It's time to move on and give a read on someone that's not Gorkington.

i figured you could read cog's post.

[Gorkington]

read my post explaining literally exactly what i was doing again.
if you cant figure it out.
read it a third time.

[Gorkington]

like theres literally no testing going on.
i said i had my doubts as to whether wagons were viable in a setup where we generally dont want to lynch until close to deadline.

the "name 3 people" no kill list was in response to that feeling.

i really feel like this shouldnt be hard to figure out.

[Gorkington]

womp womp.

[Gorkington]

nos unvoting me in spite of still thinking im scum without voting someone new is showy af.

i know where my attention is going if hiplop isodive changes my mind.

[Gorkington]

i have my doubts about whether thats a genuine thought process.
but we'll see.

[Gorkington]

dont you touch my red line.
youll be in big trouble.

[Gorkington]

i dont think its unfair for me to say youre pretty scary.
self-aware players are the hardest to townbin.
and youve basically been oozing self-awareness everywhere.

[Gorkington]

is that a joke?

[Gorkington]

i certainly think that for my townreads, the odds of them playing like they are as scum are low enough that i would actively accept losing if they were tricking me.

bulge and bins are a lot closer to gutreads than i would like but i cant really get around that given how much theyve been active so far.

is there any point in needlessly doubtcasting my own reads just because its possible that im wrong?
theres a difference between absolute certainty and having faith that my feelings about someone are right and trusting that.

i just feel like its a waste of time to sit here and pick at the nature of the setup and not try to make anything happen.

[Gorkington]

im just wondering why you value the appearance of scum hunting when, really, making genuine-seeming posts as scum is one of the easiest things to do in mafia, and more so if your only real concern in a game is staying alive for one day and one night

i think it does depend on the player more than anything.
i think for a lot of people, coming across genuinely as scum is a difficult task.

do you think that if i were questioning people, pointing out things that seem alignment-indicative and putting forth solid arguments that make it seem like i believe what im saying that id be more town for it? or do you think you'd be able to discern something in the rhetoric id spew that is more likely to come from scum than town or vice versa? because, arrogant as it may sound, i don't think you could...

i do tend to find it a little easier to pick and prod at people's reasoning when theyre actually invested in either trying to find scum or trying to pretend to find scum.
i dont think its arrogant of you to think that.
from what i know of you, youre a really great scum player.
i do think i would be more satisfied having lost to someone who was applying themselves as scum over someone who wasnt though, yknow?
like. if you are scum and you slipped between the cracks, thats so much less interesting to me than someone having tricked me and slipped into my townreads.

and this is something you can ponder about and question whether im likely to take a risk here... do you honestly think ill be around after today if im scum?

depends on who your hypothetical partner would be.

[Gorkington]

to some degree its meta.
to another degree its their investment in the game.

i dont think either of them would be able to get this invested in this game if they were scum.

i have direct experience with both of them as both alignments and its why i feel pretty confident there.
all you can really do is trust that on some level, i would be really shocked if either of them rolled scum and were playing like this.

[Gorkington]

why is it about time we lynch someone?
are you feeling impatient about a game with one cycle? :/

[Gorkington]

3? marquis, pere and nos are all promising catch-ups. i want to try and sort some things. i dont understand why people are always in such a damn hurry. -.-

[Gorkington]

as youre voting snarky.

[Gorkington]

so are you just crapshooting on the t-boneslot then muffinman?

[Gorkington]

it really is honestly pretty frustrating to have you continually be defeatist about this game.
why cant we lynch katsuki then? if it literally doesnt matter to you.

[Gorkington]

i guess you did expand on a townread on him earlier.
just seems kind of ridiculous for you to imply your townreads are special and everyone else's are garbage.

[Gorkington]

like, its just frustrating to me that you were chiding me for having townreads in this game when youre also standing behind a katsuki townread. it just seems hypocritical.

p-edit: im just making a point.

[Gorkington]

oh fun are we all doing that now.

[Gorkington]

better hope pere doesnt say that too. otherwise we'll have to jump ship somewhere else.

[Gorkington]

i think thats more quilford than me. theres a reason quilford is really close to null for me in spite of him having scumhunted. not that it really matters what my nullreads are at this point, but.

[Gorkington]

and you have no worries about the same thing happening with hiplop?

[Gorkington]

who are scum then mr. i can pin all scum on d1 q.q

[Gorkington]

everyone is being so pointlessly rude.

[Gorkington]

i anticipate..
pointless noise.
hurt feelings.
and...
lurkers continuing to lurk.

[Gorkington]

nos go catch up.

[Gorkington]

kind of feel like nos is town.

[Gorkington]

@zoraster

, are we informed who flees?

[Gorkington]

marquis can we expect you to be town in the thread in the next two days or what?