Mini 1812 | Quolls | Endgame

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: hiplop how's it hanging bud you couldn't stay away when you saw my name in this game huh?

[Dragon of the West]

So just as a head's up, I work a lot this weekend and have a friend's album release show tomorrow. I probably won't be super active until Tuesday when I have a few days off in a row

[Dragon of the West]

So just as a head's up, I work a lot this weekend and have a friend's album release show tomorrow. I probably won't be super active until Tuesday when I have a few days off in a row

Anyone we would have heard of?

Probably not. They're a very local band in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Shows they headline are only ~100 people

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: hiplop how's it hanging bud you couldn't stay away when you saw my name in this game huh?

ARE YOU WHO I THINK YOU ARE

[Dragon of the West]

Distortion is definitely not as powerful as $wi$h.

Almost done channeling it by the way.

Power up. I'm just imagining Vegeta screaming like an old DBZ episode

[Dragon of the West]

Haha the kts posts are already confusing. I had to double check to make sure I was reading a post by him commenting on why he hates a post by him

[Dragon of the West]

Show just ended but phone is at 1% Don't see much so far besides a bunch of NAI shitposting

[Dragon of the West]

Alright sorry about being busy this weekend guys. I'm going through what I missed in the thread, which starts around page 8

[Dragon of the West]

Why hasn't he asked why I'm voting him ?

I don't care why

In fact he hasn't even addressed me directly ..

You are a waste of space

If he thinks I'm scum he would be voting me, which he isn't.

I think ASP is scum. Can you only have 1 scum a time?

So he think I'm town or he simply thinks its NAI, but from his PoV the latter doesn't seem plausible.

Bless... No one thinks you're town. *Pats you on your head*

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Don't get your knickers in a twist scumboy.

Oh, I took that as he was saying the post he quoted directly above that statement was a waste of space. Like a pointless comment, not an attack on the player

[Dragon of the West]

how is ASP's entrance bad? It looks fine to me

Because he's voting Shadow Step, then likes where Shadow step is voting.
How does that look fine?

I think you can agree on a read with someone even when you're scumreading them. To discount whatever they say this early just because of your initial read on them would be dumb imo

[Dragon of the West]

how is ASP's entrance bad? It looks fine to me

Because he's voting Shadow Step, then likes where Shadow step is voting.
How does that look fine?

Jeez, how shit are you at mafia that you don't even realise it was an RVS vote.

Oh, you're just terrible scum.

Let's lynch this please.

If you're saying that was 100% RVS vote, then your previous argument doesn't make sense

[Dragon of the West]

Reading up a bit as I can; day trip yesterday left me more exhausted than I thought. I'm at the VC on page 7.

@Vedith, re 128: my vote is a reflection of who I was most suspicious of. I said I understood Shadow's vote on you, not that I automatically think he's town because of a decent vote. I still don't like that he changed votes in RVS without an explanation; it's hard to read confidently as a second RVS or a motivated vote, and in my experience, RVS trains usually see scum jumping on. It reads a vote to try to force towncred.

Wait, I'm dumb. Wasn't shadow's argument. But regardless ASP said here it was more than a simple RVS vote

[Dragon of the West]

Reading up a bit as I can; day trip yesterday left me more exhausted than I thought. I'm at the VC on page 7.

@Vedith, re 128: my vote is a reflection of who I was most suspicious of. I said I understood Shadow's vote on you, not that I automatically think he's town because of a decent vote. I still don't like that he changed votes in RVS without an explanation; it's hard to read confidently as a second RVS or a motivated vote, and in my experience, RVS trains usually see scum jumping on. It reads a vote to try to force towncred.

Wait, I'm dumb. Wasn't shadow's argument. But regardless ASP said here it was more than a simple RVS vote

God damnit. This is why I should just respond as I read rather than read everything and then go back. I just realized Shadow's argument about it being RVS and ASP's clarification were not in the order i thought they were

[Dragon of the West]

I'm a spiritual lyrical individual spiritual miracle lyrical individual spiritual miracle individual

This is absurd

[Dragon of the West]

Show just ended but phone is at 1% Don't see much so far besides a bunch of NAI shitposting

All fluff from him and 5 pages in he has no reads. I don't think I love the ASP wagon, tbh.

Yeah I wasn't around this weekend enough to read thoroughly and make intelligent cases. That's why I was VLA

[Dragon of the West]

This goes is no particular order, just listing things I think after catching up:
Reading KTS at this point is terrible. Just going through his ISO of personas and talking to himself is frustrating to no end. I don't think it's AI, per se, but it isn't pro town.
Murdercat is my strongest townread for his active hunting, questioning, and just play in general
Rask is a townlean. 162-164 felt like natural thoughts on the game
I don't have a problem with ASP agreeing with a read the person he had his vote on made.
Hiplop is a null/townlean for me
Don't think the jester wagon hit scum, but I'm glad he's now posted. I agree that a lot of people at this point are nullreads
That being said I'm gonna hop on the nacho action in hopes we can get some more people out of the null zone
VOTE: Nacho [/nacho]

[Dragon of the West]

Nacho for fluffing and not coming back.
Dragon hasn't really done anything.
Shadow is just antagonistic maybe, I don't know I have to meta him, but something about it feels fake. Who cares so much so early?

Bella - probably doesn't naked vote
hip - town by default, advancing the game state at least
dwlee - gut
rask - I liked the tone in 238
KTS - weird shit seems towny, why does scum draw attention like that
Robb - had a few townie posts I liked

The point on KTS seems subject to WIFOM

[Dragon of the West]

This goes is no particular order, just listing things I think after catching up:
Reading KTS at this point is terrible. Just going through his ISO of personas and talking to himself is frustrating to no end. I don't think it's AI, per se, but it isn't pro town.
Murdercat is my strongest townread for his active hunting, questioning, and just play in general
Rask is a townlean. 162-164 felt like natural thoughts on the game
I don't have a problem with ASP agreeing with a read the person he had his vote on made.
Hiplop is a null/townlean for me
Don't think the jester wagon hit scum, but I'm glad he's now posted. I agree that a lot of people at this point are nullreads
That being said I'm gonna hop on the nacho action in hopes we can get some more people out of the null zone
VOTE: Nacho [/nacho]

LOL VOTE: Nacho what can I say, I'm really hungry

[Dragon of the West]

whyyyyyy

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: nacho something is being wonky with my quoting

[Dragon of the West]

I don't understand what is happening at all right now

[Dragon of the West]

While I see the benefit to it, it really sounds like a mess and seems like it could go horribly. If hypo claims are made that are obviously faked, mafia will be able to PoE who is actually a PR role and who is not. Personally, I don't trust myself to fake hypo claims and be able to play through the game acting in a way that is consistent to what I've claimed (which is what you have to do to make sure scum don't know you're faking). This is only my third game D:

[Dragon of the West]

I am targeting Dragon of the West

Remember that I am targeting dragon of the west

REMEMBER I AM TARGETING DRAGON

Dragon I'm targeting you tonight

While I see the benefit to it, it really sounds like a mess and seems like it could go horribly. If hypo claims are made that are obviously faked, mafia will be able to PoE who is actually a PR role and who is not. Personally, I don't trust myself to fake hypo claims and be able to play through the game acting in a way that is consistent to what I've claimed (which is what you have to do to make sure scum don't know you're faking). This is only my third game D:

I am targeting you

K.

[Dragon of the West]

While I see the benefit to it, it really sounds like a mess and seems like it could go horribly. If hypo claims are made that are obviously faked, mafia will be able to PoE who is actually a PR role and who is not. Personally, I don't trust myself to fake hypo claims and be able to play through the game acting in a way that is consistent to what I've claimed (which is what you have to do to make sure scum don't know you're faking). This is only my third game D:

There are enough moving parts in the hypo claim where it's pretty difficult to catch out what's noise and what's good faking; each hypo claim has ~9-11 different pieces of information that it could be crumbing, which means it's much more difficult to POE than in a normal game.

wait how does it have 9-11 different pieces? I'm not understanding the way everyone crumbs in particular. could you break that down into more careful specifics?

[Dragon of the West]

N1 Murdercat Positive Vedith, Dragon of the West.
JOAT first investigative action.

If the player flipped cop/gunsmith, Murdercat would be scum (Target was murdercat, result was negative so "mafia" or "gun"). If Motion Detector, it would mean that motion was detected. If follower, it would mean that Murdercat used a protective action (Vedith is the second on the playerlist, "Protective" is the second follower option. If tracker, it would mean that Murdercat was seen following around Vedith. If watcher, it would mean that Dragon of the West and Vedith were seen targeting Murdercat. If JOAT, it would mean that the JOAT did use their investigative and thus the first investigative result listed in the role would count (so if JOAT flips Roleblocker, Cop, Tracker then it means that he used his cop and found Murdercat to be scum). If Vanilla Cop or Neapolitan, Murdercat would have returned Vanilla.

This is what I mean that it's a claim that has 11 different pieces.
The same hypoclaim (Murdercat Positive Vedith, Dragon of the West) could mean that Murdercat is Vanilla or Murdercat is Guilty or Mudercat targeted another player or was targeted or used a protective action, etc.
Because the same claim can mean such a large number of things, it's much more difficult to PoE based on those claims alone. Does that make sense?

It makes sense how it would be tough to PoE. I guess I'm just not understanding the ordering of the players and how these posts are written. Would murdercat be the one writing that example post? or would a fourth player write that about their action which could involve those three players?

[Dragon of the West]

Wait, I just read it for like the 30th time and it's clicking now. I guess my next question would be, are the post always in that format? like where you list players and they wouldn't be part of the result at all

[Dragon of the West]

@nacho, explain your plan to me like I'm five?

QFT

[Dragon of the West]

Hey guys, been working nonstop this weekend. I work again right now until 8 EST. I'll catch up tonight!

[Dragon of the West]

Alright, starting my catchup now. Sorry again. VOTE: unvote

Notes from pages 1-3

-Don't like Shadow Steps RVS vote: Naked vote on a person who has not yet posted.
-Shadow Step follows up with a vote on my predecessor when the RVS wagon starts to build. Wondering why he didn't try starting a wagon instead of his naked vote earlier
-Murdercat taking the lead and votes Raskolnikov: good vote.

I need to go right now. I'll finish up on my catchup a bit later.

Why didn't you have a problem with this vote? Granted it wasn't a naked vote, but there is no real reasoning. Specifically why didn't you have a problem with not voting someone who had already posted? He could have also voted to form a wagon but did not, why didn't you have a problem with that?

VOTE: ASP

Tempted with the Jester vote, but I feel there's scum on that wagon.

Content to hammer!

Plus when the wagon on Robb(now All in) started to form

Vedith said this and didn't jump on that Robb wagon.

There is something really weird going on between these two slots.
I'd prefer a All in lynch now cause that attack on me feels like a chainsaw.

VOTE: All in

My vote was before Robb had any votes and my second comment was in regards to the "L1" post from Jester considering it was L5. This was page 1 with 2 people putting a vote on Robb. You really are scratching the walls here.

I don't have any problem with the reasoning here from vedith, because the explanation itself is fine. What I do have a problem with the response itself. The question didn't seem like an attack onto vedith by shadowstep, but rather shadow pointing out inconsistencies in All in's judgement. That being said, vedith seems yucky

VOTE: hiplop
back to this

While it's weird that hiplop refused to engage in that conversation, I'm inclined to say that scum!hiplop would be more eager to refute your point or engage with you. Not totally AI, but I like hippo as a townlean

Okay, this is what I was looking for from Nacho. I only wish he delivered a bit earlier.

You know, Nacho, you have a good point about people looking at you instead of applying pressure themselves. I can only speak for myself, but when I know a good player is in the game, comparing my reads to theirs is something I like to do. Good players who are town don't tend to live long, so matching scumreads are usually an indication for me that I'm on the right track on those reads.

VOTE: Dragon of the west.

Their catchup after coming back from V/LA was very underwhelming.

And the point I made before:

Dragon's comment on the personal attack in his catchup post seems unnecessary and pointless.Especially because nothing in the 70 other posts since his V/LA seem to be noteworthy.

I wouldn't mind lynching this at all.

Meh, the early game was shit and I was busy with another game as well as work. I just wasn't super into it on top of being busy. That being said, I feel like conversation is finally progressing and I have a few days off in a row to be active and share my reads more. More posts on their way

[Dragon of the West]

Actually nacho thinks it's a good point and wonders why he doesn't answer, but comes away with a hiplop townread anyways. Nacho's townread on hiplop in general I don't follow either.

Nacho's if you're town you know murder and all in just finished townreading you on one-sided/limited meta (I'm sure at least all-in is town) and how wrong it would be since you can fake these posts as scum, so how can you go on to townread hiplop in the same way, admitting it's based on one-sided meta without alarm bells going off?

What makes you so sure All-in is town? I didn't get a gut read on him and I haven't seen anything AI. Just trying to understand what you see. Also, Rask's posts around this point feel super towny to me and I like his thoughts. Might have said this before my prod too but I like rask as town a lot

[Dragon of the West]

Points on nacho seem valid in the fact that his "not enough time" explanation and his early under-control public appearance contradict each other. Although him being confident early on doesn't necessarily signify that he has a plethora of scumreads is something to keep in mind. I think the biggest overstep in your thought process is when you start reading into nacho's townread on hiplop which could easily be coincidental

[Dragon of the West]

Honestly that was basically my catchup. It was only 2 1/2 pages that I had to go over. If you want me to go address anything directly I can but honestly there just isn't much more standing out to me that I can say anything definitively about. I guess my last thing is I want shadow step to explain his tunnel on All In because I don't really see it

[Dragon of the West]

No scumread? No vote?

I wanted to wait to hear why shadowstep was tunneling all in before I put my vote on anyone. Also, I'm not the only one that doesn't have my vote on anyone and there are multiple people that have been unwilling to divulge their reads

[Dragon of the West]

No scumread? No vote?

I wanted to wait to hear why shadowstep was tunneling all in before I put my vote on anyone. Also, I'm not the only one that doesn't have my vote on anyone and there are multiple people that have been unwilling to divulge their reads

Why bring up that you weren't the only person not voting?
Who has been unwilling to divulge their reads?

Saying that it doesn't make sense to only take issue with me not putting a vote out when others don't have them out as well. And a few people. One was definitely robb who I realize is replaced but a few others mentioned not wanting to go into there scumreads further. It's 2:45 am right now and I'm tired as hell. I'll try to remember but remind me if I don't, I'll quote where people wouldn't divulge all their reads

[Dragon of the West]

EBWOP: I'll quote it tomorrow

[Dragon of the West]

This the first I'm hearing about you not having time or low motivation; before you said you intentionally came in late and focused on what you did as a reaction test, and then said you didn't want to go into who you leaned scum on purpose as well, and just sounded so calm and fine being secretive you gave off this feeling of being fine with everything and doing what you wanted to be doing. Like you were giving off this "it's all going to plan" vibe which felt BS and none of the concern for the game situation or your personal one which I expected to see until now. You acted (or at least how I read it) like you did have control over what you were doing (as opposed to not having time = not really having resources to do what you wanted) and that made it look like you were intentionally holding out, which is my problem.

I think your general sense of me feeling that it was all going to plan because of my opening was something that you were reading into and not something that I actually meant to convey; I planned to discuss and fully explain the plan early in the day, and then kept putting off posting because I wanted that specific opening but it took work and that ended up pushing me further and further behind; generally when I'm low posting, I'm not low posting on purpose.

Not explicitly saying that I was busy was an oversight but I figured it was obvious enough based on the number of prod dodges I've posted here.

"not enough time" explanation and his early under-control public appearance contradict each other.

How do they contradict each other?

Because someone who is confident in the game doesn't then say they haven't had time to analyze the game. But I like your explanation here and am willing to consider I and rask misinterpreted your tone early on

[Dragon of the West]

I wanted to wait to hear why shadowstep was tunneling all in before I put my vote on anyone.

I call bullshit on that.

Also, I'm not the only one that doesn't have my vote on anyone and there are multiple people that have been unwilling to divulge their reads

Two wrongs don't make it right. Where's your vote?

never said that I thought not having a vote on someone at the moment was a wrong. that's exactly why I unvoted at the beginning of my catchup

[Dragon of the West]

Id prefer asp death to kts

How do you feel about the murdercat reaction to the wagon forming?

[Dragon of the West]

actually regardless of kts flip that posting by murdercat was bad
VOTE: Murdercat
let's see the wagon speed of this *eyeroll*

What're your thoughts on KTS depending on murdercat flipping town/scum? I feel like if murder flipped scum it would point to KTS as a partner

[Dragon of the West]

Id prefer asp death to kts

How do you feel about the murdercat reaction to the wagon forming?

You clearly think the reaction was scummy; why do you think that MURDERCAT would start a wagon on his partner and then express cold feet the second the wagon started to pick up steam? It seems odd to me that MURDERCAT would vote his partner in that position if he wasn't willing to let the wagon go through (there weren't a whole lot of wagons that actually looked like they were going through, meaning that people would be receptive to a new wagon).

I'm confused by your point here. Are you saying that what murdercat did doesn't make sense for town!murder or scum!murder to do?

[Dragon of the West]

I'm confused by your point here. Are you saying that what murdercat did doesn't make sense for town!murder or scum!murder to do?

No.
You're arguing that Murder is scum with KTS.
Why does Murder decide to target KTS with a random wagon when there's a decent chance it will go through and then abandon it the second it gains momentum?

I didn't think that when he started the wagon there was a decent chance for it to go through. I felt like every wagon so far had just jumped around and ultimately fell flat leading him to feel comfortable just throwing shade at a scum partner. Imo it doesn't make sense to try to stop a wagon that you wanted to start as town just because other people agree with you

[Dragon of the West]

how is ASP's entrance bad? It looks fine to me

Because he's voting Shadow Step, then likes where Shadow step is voting.
How does that look fine?

I think you can agree on a read with someone even when you're scumreading them. To discount whatever they say this early just because of your initial read on them would be dumb imo

So a large problem that I have with Dragon is his inability to produce content; this is around page 5, which means that it's not really completely unreasonable for him not to have produced anything significant so far but it still bothers me when coupled with the talk of apologies for not producing more; it means that he's aware of his lack of production and isn't actively working to fix it.

Murdercat is my strongest townread for his active hunting, questioning, and just play in general

I'm sort of surprised this Murder read died just because Murder was uncomfortable with people sheeping him.
Would like Dragon to talk about that Murder read a bit more.

I don't have any problem with the reasoning here from vedith, because the explanation itself is fine. What I do have a problem with the response itself. The question didn't seem like an attack onto vedith by shadowstep, but rather shadow pointing out inconsistencies in All in's judgement. That being said, vedith seems yucky

Shadowstep's argument was that All In was chainsawing Vedith by attacking him.

how is ASP's entrance bad? It looks fine to me

Because he's voting Shadow Step, then likes where Shadow step is voting.
How does that look fine?

I think you can agree on a read with someone even when you're scumreading them. To discount whatever they say this early just because of your initial read on them would be dumb imo

So a large problem that I have with Dragon is his inability to produce content; this is around page 5, which means that it's not really completely unreasonable for him not to have produced anything significant so far but it still bothers me when coupled with the talk of apologies for not producing more; it means that he's aware of his lack of production and isn't actively working to fix it.

Murdercat is my strongest townread for his active hunting, questioning, and just play in general

I'm sort of surprised this Murder read died just because Murder was uncomfortable with people sheeping him.
Would like Dragon to talk about that Murder read a bit more.

I don't have any problem with the reasoning here from vedith, because the explanation itself is fine. What I do have a problem with the response itself. The question didn't seem like an attack onto vedith by shadowstep, but rather shadow pointing out inconsistencies in All in's judgement. That being said, vedith seems yucky

Shadowstep's argument was that All In was chainsawing Vedith by attacking him, which is close enough to an attack on Vedith in my book.
Why did you think that Vedith seemed yucky here? Because he responded to something about him that wasn't an attack?

Overall nothing huge but seems like a fine vote to me.
Would also vote Shadowstep at this point for abandoning his tunnel so readily; also have a few problems with how he got there but will talk about that a little later.

1) The townread on murder slowly faded. It was a rather early read and I didn't like how he immediately criticized the wagon that he formed
2) Yes, All In was chainsawing Vedith, but the way I read it made me feel like shadowstep was using that as a way to criticize All In, not Vedith. That made it seem weird to me that Vedith would defend himself against the shadowstep post when shadow wasn't doing the attacking. Felt like paranoia at anyone pointing fingers his way and I didn't like it. If he wanted to defend himself against the actual points he only needed to respond to All In's posts.