BLOODBORNE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Nahdia]

so why was Mixed6 in my PT i gotta knowww

[Firebringer]

Well this was.....something.

[Varsoon]

so why was Mixed6 in my PT i gotta knowww

Mod error, I think

[Nahdia]

. . . . . . . .oh >_<

[Nahdia]

well having them there certainly made the game a bit more interesting. not sure what might have changed with them out of the picture.

[SugarJan]

Personally, I think my gameplay made me dislike this game rather than the mechanics.
We were never given any messages. We were never invited to any PT's and the only one we had, we made ourselves. RI never trusted us so it was pretty much a waste anyway. We had no information at all. Everyone else had clues of some sort but no one told us anything. And then everyone expected some kind of meaningful playing coming out of the slot. It was ridiculous. I know I only have myself to blame I guess... But it's discouraging.

[Firebringer]

We had no information at all.

That seems to be a huge problem with a game of this complexity.

[Nahdia]

yeah, i get it being discouraging. there was very much a gap between the people who had the information and those who didn't. A huge portion of the scum PT is just me feeding everything I learn to my team (i make well over half the posts there). You can see a lot of my work in posts like these: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8089420
which I made a few times in there.

[SirCakez]

The problem was you didn't engaged with anyone or try to make connections Jan

[House]

One person using two controllers in a console game remains one player, afaic.

The site's rules are hugely specific about loopholes being bullshit, but apparently that goes out the window when it comes to mechanics.

I still say the game was bastard because it allowed the very action Varsoon explicitly stated the game was designed to prevent.

If quicklynches required two people to be online at day start, town would have had a bit more of a fair shake at the end.

I agree that Patches was a problem, but I disagree about the bastard aspect.
It's shitty, though, so I'll give you that. I shouldn't have designed something so shitty.

Eh, I'm just a bit salty. You should expect that from me.

Outside of Patches, I enjoyed the game overall. Thanks for all the work you put into it.

[Elbirn]

Im not sorry for what I did

I will call the people I called scum again if we play this and I'm not even sorry for them being wrong

RI and ABR you two are pure peaces of shit who think advertising our death when we're SLEEP (IRL i mean) is ok cause what i crumbed make no sense.

And @ shiro who said blabla you guys were obvtown why did we lynch you

When you attempt to hijack the game, you become a liability. Me and cerb agreed on voting for you, and did it k owing full well that you were town :/

Nothing against you guys, and we can disagree on the game theory there, but your move was really really antitown and we had to prevent it. Sorry :/

This was a great setup. The issue was that certain players *cough Mixed6 and RI cough* became untouchable. To be honest I really wanted to get into this game mechanically because I felt that a group of players had taken over the game. I think the issue with power wasn't too bad outside of the Patches thing. I have to say my role seemed quite weak compared to others I think it's partly due to me hiding my augur for late game. I still had a good time. Pissed I let RI persuade me not to scumread Ranger and KC though.

But rando you were our ace in the hole, we wanted you in our corner and in the loop

inb4 Varsoon rebels and starts running Newbie games instead

Tbh I'd belay me quitting mafia if it meant I could IC some varsoon newbie games. I like new people. I could show them the worrllldddd

I mean not really I'm still out but yeah

Also can I get any tips for becoming better beyond "post more" which I think I got as hard as that will be because aaaaaugh smart people will be reading my posts and they'll all immediately think I'm stupid ^_^'

Post more
U no stupid u r smart don't worry
Play some normals, I'm no mind reader but I felt like you and Hobbes were overwhelmed and that led to your disengagement. Get your feet wet with a simpler game?

[Frozen Angel]

not even close to what I argued about

whatever this conversation won't end in anyway useful so whatever

[House]

And @ shiro who said blabla you guys were obvtown why did we lynch you

When you attempt to hijack the game, you become a liability. Me and cerb agreed on voting for you, and did it k owing full well that you were town :/

Nothing against you guys, and we can disagree on the game theory there, but your move was really really antitown and we had to prevent it. Sorry :/

What the fuck ever, dude. You wound up hurting the game 100x worse than a bad gladiate.

I don't want any preaching from your slot whatsover.

[House]

And @ shiro who said blabla you guys were obvtown why did we lynch you

When you attempt to hijack the game, you become a liability. Me and cerb agreed on voting for you, and did it k owing full well that you were town :/

Nothing against you guys, and we can disagree on the game theory there, but your move was really really antitown and we had to prevent it. Sorry :/

What the fuck ever, dude. You wound up hurting the game 100x worse than a bad gladiate.

I don't want any preaching from your slot whatsoever.

EBWOP

[SugarJan]

We gave our entire role to RI. Maybe I'm not good enough but I pushed to give all we had to RI and they never trusted us. The day one cloud never vanished and it all spiraled downward from there.

Hobbes and I both came from a forum where behind the scenes PMing and deals and such were common. This is a whole new kind of animal. I guess it's a learning curve. I'm not used to spilling all my info the second I consider it. I have to wait and think on it. But by the time I had gotten my thoughts in order, there were twenty more pages to read and digest and it just got overwhelming.

Also I'm easily intimidated by people and was very much so by all of you

Pedit:
Hobbes and I also thought that smaller games are probably better to try now. But we also both think Varsoon is amazing and the lure of his games is very strong.

[Nahdia]

And @ shiro who said blabla you guys were obvtown why did we lynch you

When you attempt to hijack the game, you become a liability. Me and cerb agreed on voting for you, and did it k owing full well that you were town :/

Nothing against you guys, and we can disagree on the game theory there, but your move was really really antitown and we had to prevent it. Sorry :/

What the fuck ever, dude. You wound up hurting the game 100x worse than a bad gladiate.

I don't want any preaching from your slot whatsover.

I mean, his slot is the one that caught me as scum.

[Frozen Angel]

just sayin - not expecting a reaction - at least in a good manner

you said there is no way for my role to make sense

You owe me an apology for advertising my kill when I was sleep.

[Frozen Angel]

that was @elbrin

[Nahdia]

Pedit:
Hobbes and I also thought that smaller games are probably better to try now. But we also both think Varsoon is amazing and the lure of his games is very strong.

join Wizard Mafia once i have it in sign-ups. itsgonnabegreat

[PeregrineV]

Some thoughts:

Many of you have voiced your frustration with this game. I apologize for how poorly it turned out. In a way, I crafted the madness of the Hunt too well--Nights were long and torturous and when it came time for a lynch to happen, it was swift and harrowing. Power went unchecked until it was too much of a problem, and all of the players were forced to play under very strenuous conditions. In the end, it came out to a worthless slugfest despite all the intrigue and machinations of madmen.

So, in some ways, this setup was a success. I even drove myself up a wall.

In many other ways, this setup absolutely failed.

Items like Pebble, Blood Cocktail, Numbing Mist, Shaman Bone Blade, and so on were integral to how I expected players to play and, yet, no one took advantage of them. Entire roles had no functionality due to players not understanding their role, never taking an action, or simply not playing the game. Scum was allowed full reign to build up their own power to the point that town could not counter it right out.

Nightmare Events were one of the most exciting mechanics I developed for this game. I was very excited to put together a system of mass-invited PTs in which the host of the PT could cause flavor events to happen that would render fun and interesting mechanical results. I think, what? There was one nightmare event played this entire game? I remember thinking about it and being really upset that I designed a mechanic that I would really enjoy, but nobody else cared about.

I won't be using shops in my future games. I like the idea of role progression just as much as I like the idea of publicly known powers (this is the appeal of smalltown games, too). The problem is that players are affected too much by it. That was sort of the goal here, and, I suppose, it did have the effects I desired, but it was far too stressful for many players. The problem with having a system of public powers is twofold, really:
1. Rhetorically Strong players will police who gets what. I absolutely hated that Mixed6 was trying to dictate who could buy which items. Being told that you'll be scumread if you get an item you want inhibits the fun of the game in a lot of ways, I feel. No longer can people enjoy the mechanic, because it's not an option for them to fully embrace it.
2. Mechanically Weak players will not realize how to use the mechanic at all. Once again, I think numbing mist was used successfully once this game? Furthermore, only a single blood vial was used to prevent a kill, and it did not work given the kill was a strongman shot.

I sincerely apologize for how horrible and stressful this game became. I felt it more than anyone. Since day one, I was upset with how things had turned out due to players either not playing at all or playing in ways contrary to the design of the game. I figured that I couldn't let myself get too hung up on players not playing the way I wanted, though. What really got to me was the amount of people decrying the setup entirely, while others still didn't care to play at all. I felt as though I had failed everyone who signed up for this game--the mechanics did not get utilized, no one seemed to care, and the most feedback I got was very negative. I designed a game I would be incredibly excited to be a part of, put more time into it than any other game I (or maybe anyone else) has made, and it was an absolute failure on many fronts. Couple this with moving to a new town, being unable to find a job, going through a breakup, and several other personal issues and I dreaded coming back to this site just to unlock the game thread, post some flavor, and watch the game I put so much time, love, and effort into continue to spiral down the drain.

There was a moment where I genuinely wanted to end the game early.

There was a moment where I considered never moderating another game again, given how momentous a failure this game was for myself and for many involved.

That said, I respect you all far too much. I was not going to cut the game short on account of my own misgivings or stress. Despite the large amount of moderator errors and mistakes made, I kept telling myself that I would not abandon the game because these players deserved it played out to the end. This was a learning experience. My next theme game will be much more mechanically terse, but I hope to deliver an exciting setup that gets players engaged with both the game and the flavor. You're some of my favorite people online and I love this site. I'm not going to give up on you just because things turn out poorly.

Feel free to offer criticism, your thoughts, reactions, etc. If you want to insult me for any reason, I will not keep you from doing so. I know many people are crossing this finish line frustrated, bruised, and angry. I do ask that you keep insults of other players to a minimum, though.

Thank you for playing, everyone.
I hope that you enjoyed this game. Tell me what worked for you and I'll try to incorporate it into my next game if I can.
For those of you that did not, let me know why. I'd love to make a better game next time.

Until then,
Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good.

You did an awesome job, and this was an awesome game. I would worry less about the fact you made mistakes, and correct for them, making your game next even better. (See Marketplace Mafia I, Maketplace Mafia II, Marketplace Mafia 3, War In Heaven I, War In Heaven II, War in Heaven III).

You can probably make some adjustments and run a sequel to this. If you do, /pre-in.

Anyone that wants to complain about the mechanics can go fly a kite, given it was all presented in the signup (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7926083).

For my part, I could have done more trying to understand and buy stuff, but my role seemed to be a doctor of sorts, but my targets kept dying, even when I sent messages as to the goodness of my bloodjuice. I was invited to PTs, but late in the game, and glancing at the PTs, they all had scum in them anyway.

I got some store currency late in the game, but it was pointless by that time.

So, tldr- Great game, you did great running and designing it, and thanks for letting me play!

[House]

And @ shiro who said blabla you guys were obvtown why did we lynch you

When you attempt to hijack the game, you become a liability. Me and cerb agreed on voting for you, and did it k owing full well that you were town :/

Nothing against you guys, and we can disagree on the game theory there, but your move was really really antitown and we had to prevent it. Sorry :/

What the fuck ever, dude. You wound up hurting the game 100x worse than a bad gladiate.

I don't want any preaching from your slot whatsover.

I mean, his slot is the one that caught me as scum.

After arming scum with everything you needed to win solo. GO HIM!

[Nahdia]

Well yeah, as soon as day 1 my goal was to put myself in a position where I had more votes available to me than the lynch threshold so that worst case scenario, I got go on a murderous rampage.

[SirCakez]

town has never won a Varsoon large theme rip

[Elbirn]

And @ shiro who said blabla you guys were obvtown why did we lynch you

When you attempt to hijack the game, you become a liability. Me and cerb agreed on voting for you, and did it k owing full well that you were town :/

Nothing against you guys, and we can disagree on the game theory there, but your move was really really antitown and we had to prevent it. Sorry :/

What the fuck ever, dude. You wound up hurting the game 100x worse than a bad gladiate.

I don't want any preaching from your slot whatsover.

Sorry house, I guess I missed the part where you caught nahdia. Or anyone caught nahdia. Or you did fuck all except murder someone I knew was town.

Oh




Wait.

just sayin - not expecting a reaction - at least in a good manner

you said there is no way for my role to make sense

You owe me an apology for advertising my kill when I was sleep.

that was @elbrin

I said nothing about your role not making sense, and there's nothing to apologize for. I already said I'm sorry we had to kill you. We can end the discussion there.

[Frozen Angel]

Everyone please be aware that someone purchased the Monocular. This gives them the ability to spy on. PTs. You can tell it's been purchased since it's crossed out.

It's also 8,000 Blood Echoes, and yesterday's lynch was only worth 6,000 which means either...

A) Someone started with a bank of Blood Echoes or gets extra echoes for slaying a player.
B) The person who shot Sensei was also on the Bogre wagon, and Sensei's value was enough to get him the 8k.
C) Sensei was worth 8k or more more Echoes.

It's almost assuredly in scum hands though.

I had this whole idea that whoever bought the monocle should spy on bogres nightmare to see if shadow is in there, thus making him near conftown

But then it turned out scum bought it cuz they're scum. Barring some shenanigans it should be someone on the Bogre wagon so we can PoE from that

I have nothing of value to add. R&l should die and is lying about being able to kill shadow instantly. *nods, smiles*

A day may come when

the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship.

I remember to sign my posts. But it is not this day!

-Elbirn

You're telling me that R&L can vig someone, but the target can say no and force a gladiate, but then R&L can kill them anyway?

The point would be what the fuck, exactly?

She's blustering because she doesn't want anyone to vote her.

Disclaimer, on the off chance I'm wrong I don't think I want anyone to push her over the edge, so stay your votes for now bros. Just yeah, she's lying.

yep

lets move on